SRL Archive - Discussions and Debates

Hello there fellow srl members(+).

While lurking around the forum I notice a certain behavior towards users with no goal to contribute. Often they are named leechers, especially when the post is about a negative side of them. I personally think this is an offensive word to describe those users. Of course, in a perfect world they would all contribute, write scripts and start interesting threads and discussions on the forum. But there is no place on the internet, or even on the world where all people got the same goals. I think it would be wise not to expect them to have the same vision.

My statement:
We should try to refrain from calling users leechers.

The name given to those people, leecher, implies that they leech this community. Like a blood sucking parasite. But is that true? Do they really harm us that much? I don't think so. This community is build upon scripters, developers and the staff, together creating a solid foundation of this forum. Do those users really harm our foundation?

Other open source projects with no 'pay to use' business model also got users. With no users there is a lot less motivation to work on scripts or simba. Did I ever contributed to open office? Did I ever gave useful feedback when I used a free linux distribution like linux? No I didn't. I used them as tools to accomplish my tasks I had in mind for those programs. They didn't force me to contribute, neither did they called me a leecher for using their programs for my school work.

But we do harm the users with it by calling them leechers. They feel like an outcast. Like they are no part of this society. Of course they aren't a part of the active society, but they are simba users. And I think we thread them badly. It is their choice to use our scripts and programs as tools. by calling the leechers we could scare potential new users away. It is a sign of hostility towards new users. I don't think that hostility is the right way to handle this situation.

The only thing that is really annoying are the 'how do I set up simba' threads and 'this script doesn't work' post even though it is already said a million times on this forum. But is it really that much more trouble to just ask them search the forum or read the first post again? We don't win anything by calling them leechers.

Discuss:

From: masterBB

The only thing that is really annoying are the 'how do I set up simba' threads and 'this script doesn't work' post even though it is already said a million times on this forum

This is somewhat true but there are times when it's understandable when they need help setting it up; there's so many things that can go wrong. When first installing simba, you can encounter MSVCR errors, access violations, etc. You have to enable all the extensions and such, which if done in the incorrect order will completely screw up simba. Then you have to manually setup the newest SMART version. Sometimes that fails and you have to manually compile that too. Then you have to make sure you have the right java version otherwise SMART even won't work properly.

A user is only only a leecher if you look at his/her posts and all you see is "script sucks brah" and "can sum1 make a dung script?". Otherwise, there's nothing wrong with a person who uses scripts but doesn't give anything back. I'm sure we'd all be sad/disappointed if we spent hours/days coding a script and see this:

.

I personally only call the worst people leechers. The ones that are flaming other people or asking for stuff that they could have found out easily by reading through the full topic.

So my vote went for "Call the users who ask obvious questions leechers."

They are more like freeloaders, they do not contribute at all(ie. detailed bug reports instead of "doesn't work!!1!1") but still expect benefits. Most of them don't even post a short "thanks!" on the script thread. I had a guy who had a 9 hour run on my miner(learned from stats) and I couldn't even find his account over here. The term leecher seems to have originated from the injection communities. I remember people yelling at leechers over at RSBuddy.

No no.. OP is correct. Why? Because they're human.. I'll use my own thread as an example: http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75929
If you check the majority of posts, I guarantee that they all have green names and leecher rank. Not even lesser demon rank. But not all leechers are stupid and they eventually learn.

Honestly if there were no leechers, those scripts would have never even been close to as good as they were. You just have to know how to handle them/talk to them. You treat them like people and give them instructions and they will follow. If they have a problem then your instructions aren't perfect.

After that, when they see that you as a scripter is listening to their ideas and their problems, then they start posting useful info and stuff you can use to better your scripts, otherwise they will post shit all and just say "doesn't work". Some of them even start to take the time to fix and edit some scripts on their own whenever you yourself do not have time. Eventually they start helping eachother out. I've seen them help eachother on Yohojo's thread about the slayer update that broke SRL. Some started making videos to help the others fix their include and others just answered the questions of some.

You just have to feed them enough until they start feeding themselves and yes it does happen. They eventually just start doing stuff on their own.
So with that said, I say call them users. I voted: Call them users.

What Brandon said.

We must not forget that the majority of our users is young. Here is an example of a thread I started years ago: http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15589&highlight=gala

I am ashamed, but I think it is natural. Most of the users are scared of "dry" documentations and tutorials because they are young, imo.

The moment when a "leecher" starts to care about the community is the moment when he gets promoted to a community member.

I've got nothing against people that use things for free and don't say anything, it must be working ok that all :p
I dislike it when people that are rude or inconsiderate and obviously someone that posts 'IT DONT WORK' but I wouldn't call them people leechers, I would call them selfish individuals and would probably ignore them.
I do agree tho, with what Brandon said about talking to people with respect.
You can only set how people should be by example, which isn't calling people names being rude in any way or condescending, we are all here to help each other and learn.

I would prefer to call them by there name ;) but I voted user.

I agree. Calling new users leechers only because they haven't contributed anything isn't right, and can be very negative.

The only people I consider "leechers" are people that are saying "OMG FIX YOUR SCRIPT BLAH BLAH" and don't even want to do anything to help. Won't give suggestions, etc. These people are usually rude too and don't want to even wait a day or two for you to have the time to update a script.

Also on the "call all the users who ask obvious questions leechers" posts. I don't agree with this FULLY either…some things may be obvious to some people but not to others. I mean, I see some questions that are "Oh I get the MSVCR100.dll error" (or whatever it is) and that is obvious to me on what to do…but if that happened to some of my friends, they wouldn't know what to do because they don't know hardly anything about computers, or what a "dll" file is.

I voted "call them users".

I've voted for calling them users, mainly because I agree with Brandon and Gala.
When I came here in december 2011, I was only looking for good RS scripts because the bot nuke disabled RSBot and it took them too long to update it imo.. (no patience, sign of a leecher :p)
But as the first script I used had a little bug in it which made it run for max. 30 minutes, I had a look at the code and found a way around the bug:
http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?p=868669#post868669
The last sentence is pretty stupid, but w/e..
This made me become interested in the code behind the 'bot', but I would have never started to learn the programming if everything worked perfectly. I would be a leecher. Erm no.. a USER. :)

From: Brandon
(..) You just have to feed them enough until they start feeding themselves and yes it does happen. They eventually just start doing stuff on their own. (..)

Confirmed.

From: DetectiveDoctor
[Error] Z:\home\thedoctor\Downloads\sps_soul_wars (1).simba(43:35): Unknown identifier 'MMCX' at line 42
Compiling failed.

I have also tried running sps soul wars from within runescape_other as directed. I get the same result.

Also, for AOI Powerchopper v0.9:

[Error] C:\Simba\Includes\SRL/SRL/misc/smart.simba(53:19): Invalid number of parameters at line 52
Compiling failed.


This seems to be a recurring issue, I have no idea what's wrong here. Was told I needed to update the script manually or wait for everyone else to do it. I'm not that patient, so any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you.

This is my definition of a leecher…this guy posted a new thread and look at what I made bold. -_____-

He said thanks but…I'm not that patient? Seriously, get some manners people. Ahhh pisses me off a little bit.

I don't mind the users who dont flame script writers, but the ones that do… -.-

I agree, there's no reason to degrade them, that's not going to accomplish anything. Seems more like demotivating them, therefore less chance of them becoming more active with the community.

I agree, masterBB.

I agree. I mean, when I first arrived here all of my threads were asking stupid questions either about setting up, getting scripts to work or really basic scripting stuff.
Thanks to all of your help I then learned, felt welcomed and hung around.
I feel the same situation is possible for anyone and while a little more common sense and attempt to learn from some of them would be nice, they are a part of our community nonetheless and we should treat them as such.

There are multiple definitions to the word leecher, not just one (i.e. one being a "blood sucking parasite").

From Wikipedia:
"a leech is one who benefits, usually deliberately, from others' information or effort but does not offer anything in return"

I believe it is an appropriate term. Also, if it is as "degrading" as you say, then it could be the stepping stone for them to decide to contribute in one form or another.

EDIT: As per P1ng's situation (above), I wouldn't go as far to call someone asking for help without searching a leecher. Only those who download a script and whinge it not working/being broken and those demanding various additions/script/things.

We need these new members. Some of these "leechers" are our next great scripters. Alienate them now and they won't ever be. It's worth putting up with the masses in the hope that even a few will become active.

We all started off knowing nothing << Time and questions which may seem obvious to someone else are all part of the learning process.

Also, it's worth considering that forum etiquette (searching before posting, etc.) may not have been learned yet before flaming these guys. I didn't even know what a forum was when I found Kaitnieks.com years ago.

I agree with this, though only after I read it.

I'm not one to usually call people leechers, but prior to reading this I did always consider them to be just that, but as others have mentioned without them script views would probably stay close to zero, and motivation for scripting would also plummet to near there as well.

I do appreciate them, though the ones who don't read the simple instructions given in the script thread really get under my skin.

From: Shay
I don't mind the users who dont flame script writers, but the ones that do… -.-

I agree to this, as most scripters also don't want to feel demotivated there is a difference between "Hey, the script is broken at ' ' if you get a change can you look" is stead of "Script Broken!! Fix it!!".
Which would put me in a mind set not to fix it and get the thread removed.
My Thoughts
Mat

From: Gala
What Brandon said.

We must not forget that the majority of our users is young. Here is an example of a thread I started years ago: http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15589&highlight=gala

I am ashamed, but I think it is natural. Most of the users are scared of "dry" documentations and tutorials because they are young, imo.

The moment when a "leecher" starts to care about the community is the moment when he gets promoted to a community member.

I face palmed when I went to my threads and looked at the ones I created 4 years ago. We all started out clueless after all. You weren't born with programming hard wired in your brain, nor are they. Sometimes people just need the right motivation to get started with learning, such as some one they see as a respected member being nice to them.

You don't have to point out to a leecher he/she is a leecher, but I think the term is fine for us to point to the group of users that does not contribute back.

By calling them leechers, don't you motivate them not to be?

Forgive me if I am asking an obvious question or one that was already answered.

From: Yago
By calling them leechers, don't you motivate them not to be?

I don't think so. Personally when I join a community and everybody would call me a leecher while I have troubles installing simba and running scripts, no, it wouldn't motivate me. Not everybody starts as a computer geek, and some of younger people aren't aware of the differences between a community run with no profit opposed to one where a full timer is in charge.

:google: does not always apply. I found when I first was trying to get scar to work (yes, the good ol scar) that I had one heck of a time trying to figure out how to set up the scripts, and even enable/disable smart at that time. I am sure some of my questions were stupid, but yet here I am, writing an occasional script when I have time.

I think all who use a script without writing their own would be defined as a leech by some definition, but there are good and bad leeches. The differences are those that have been highlighted, such as posting why scripts failed, or saying thanks for the script. There are also those that leach, learn, and contribute and "loose" their leech status.

Its a loose/loose to try and weed out the bad leaches, because you may weed out some of the good ones, even with "leech control" in your scripts.

From: EtherFreak
The differences are those that have been highlighted, such as posting why scripts failed, or saying thanks for the script.

I would call that contribution and therefore that user would not be considered a leech at all, by the standard definition.

I am fine with "users", the only time I get a tad ticked is when they ask something that could of easily been found, *fine ill help you this time but after that they just use you as an answer booklet instead of just searching for the answer themselves* (I mean 99% of the questions they ask me are covered in the thread made by Coh3n)

Mind you the search engine could use a little tweeking, it appears to be very cluttered/inaccurate.

Other than that your example of linux & SRL community is pretty good, and agreed.

From: nielsie95
You don't have to point out to a leecher he/she is a leecher, but I think the term is fine for us to point to the group of users that does not contribute back.

This.

I never call someone a leecher straight to them, I use it as a general statement because everyone knows who you're talking about.

I was a leecher when I joined :p

From: Kyle Undefined


I was a leecher when I joined :p

Who wasn't :)

From: Gala
Who wasn't :)

Everyone starts out that way. You don't start something new and just know everything.

From: Noob King
Everyone starts out that way. You don't start something new and just know everything.

Didn't I just say the same? Who was NOT a leecher at the beginning.

From: Gala
Didn't I just say the same? Who was NOT a leecher at the beginning.

Yeah, but someone has to MAKE the decision not to be one.

From: Brandon

You just have to know how to handle them/talk to them. You treat them like people and give them instructions and they will follow. If they have a problem then your instructions aren't perfect.

Sounds like you're telling us how to deal with babies :p

OP: I don't think I've ever called anyone a leecher, true story.

From: abu_jwka
You're a leecher who needs to gtfo of this forum and find somewhere else where you find an entire community of dim-witted people just like you :fiery:.

—

Anyways, if someone doesn't contribute anything and is only pissing people off (like the guy abu was yelling at), they deserve to be called a leecher.
This basically sums it up.