SRL Archive - News and General

The smart client isn't against the law is it? I have a ignorant person trying to tell me it is, by it leads to to wonder.. is it? It's technically not even a different Runescape client is it?

im sure somewhere in their TOS there is a clause saying something to the effect of:

if(not(accessViaRSWebsite) or not(accessViaRSOfficialClient))then
  breakingTOS := true;

and as far as breaking their TOS goes in america: http://lifehacker.com/5901773/breaking-a-terms-of-service-isnt-necessarily-a-crime

To my knowledge, it is not. It simply loads the RS client. It doesn't copy or manipulate anything.

This is probably a good question for @BenLand100.

In Norway it's completely legal to break any TOS, unless doing so means breaking any law, of course.

From: x[Warrior]x3500
im sure somewhere in their TOS there is a clause saying something to the effect of:

if(not(accessViaRSWebsite) or not(accessViaRSOfficialClient))then
  breakingTOS := true;

and as far as breaking their TOS goes in america: http://lifehacker.com/5901773/breaking-a-terms-of-service-isnt-necessarily-a-crime

An interesting read! :)

Hey rr I saw that thread you made, quite entertaining, but those guys will never change their ways.
I hope you're right /other guy is just talking out of his butt!
Either way even if it is illegal/against ToS it really doesn't matter to bots of smaller scale at all and won't put us in any radars.

I'd also like to know the exact details about this all!

How am I supposed to know if it is illegal or not? I neither know nor care what the laws are. If it is "illegal" it's not worth the cost of a court case and the worst case scenario is you get banned. You're taking that risk anyway, so it seems like a moot issue.

Wizzup? p.s. redname me again when you get a chance

From: x[Warrior]x3500
im sure somewhere in their TOS there is a clause saying something to the effect of:

if(not(accessViaRSWebsite) or not(accessViaRSOfficialClient))then
  breakingTOS := true;

and as far as breaking their TOS goes in america: http://lifehacker.com/5901773/breaking-a-terms-of-service-isnt-necessarily-a-crime

That'd be a valid point were SMART not loading RS directly from the official website.
SMART even tells you it's loading straight from runescape.com in the debug when it starts up.

All it does different is load it inside a JVM so it has its own mouse.

Pretty much i made a suggestion for them to have a minimizable bot, and they all got scared and teamed up thinking it was against the law.

Rjj could you link us to the thread?

Gladly:http://www.robotzindisguise.com/forum/showthread.php?20716-Minimizable-Bot

From: BenLand100
How am I supposed to know if it is illegal or not? I neither know nor care what the laws are. If it is "illegal" it's not worth the cost of a court case and the worst case scenario is you get banned. You're taking that risk anyway, so it seems like a moot issue.

Wizzup? p.s. redname me again when you get a chance

Well, you're the creator of SMART, so I thought you might know. :p

From: rjj95
Gladly:http://www.robotzindisguise.com/forum/showthread.php?20716-Minimizable-Bot

Thanks. It's kind of weird for them to close your thread just for making a suggestion that would make Rid be less bad.

I agreed at first, but it's just a thing RiD will most likely never have. RiD seems to be pretty again making the bot minimizeable natively so there's not really a need for a thread dis using it.
But yeah I don't see why they're so against it.

From: YoHoJo
I agreed at first, but it's just a thing RiD will most likely never have. RiD seems to be pretty again making the bot minimizeable natively so there's not really a need for a thread dis using it.
But yeah I don't see why they're so against it.

Because it apparently breaks Jagex's ToS, but I would assume there's also something in there about breaking the rules of the game (in which case they would be violating the ToS anyway). Maybe there is no such term in the ToS, I don't know, but from that thread it seems RiD is pretty on top of things like that.

That's a good point Coh3n, if they think breaking the tos = breaking the law, then wouldn't they be just as guilty as any other bot developer?

RiD is a POS anyway.

From: BMWxi
That's a good point Coh3n, if they think breaking the tos = breaking the law, then wouldn't they be just as guilty as any other bot developer?

Assuming rule breaking is against their ToS, then yes.

So Firefox doesn't modify the client, it just loads it. Does that make Firefox illegal?

I think it's not illegal it's just other people are confused and not sure what they are talking about.

Wow i am just amazed at the stupidity of those people. the first post after…

Sorry to burst your bubble, but RiD is also mimimizable as seen here: http://www.roboru...imize-Your-Bot

Sorry to burst StevenC's bubble, but minimizing a VM is not minimizing rid/a program. it still leaves everything open in its original state.

as for everyone else there thinking that smart is illegal because it modifies the rs client or doesnt … something, is just plain stupid. imagine smart as firefox like @Echo_ said. A long time ago (prolly right after 2011 nuke) i was looking into new botting 'methods' and finally went there. I made an account. downloaded the client and then deleted it. It sucked. who wants to pay for crap you can get for free?

Annyway. long story short. the people at rid are, imo, stupid beyond belief.

Look, I'm not here to argue with everyone, but just going to leave this here:

Minimizing RuneScape directly would be a violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). Users of any customized version of the RuneScape client, are violating real-world rules and could potentially be sued by Jagex.

We don't minimize RuneScape directly, to protect our users, and because (although we disagree with some aspects of gameplay) we absolutely respect Jagex's rights, according to the DMCA.

You can minimize your bot without committing an offense, with very little overhead, using Adam's Virtual Machine.

Another bit:

Regarding this issue, the TOS of RuneScape states, "You must not use a modified/customised version of the client software" and "such activity may constitute civil wrongs and/or criminal offences, and Jagex reserves the right to take such action as appropriate in the circumstances should it become aware that such offences are being committed."

Many bots do this (for minimization), and this is what leaves their users open to being sued.

From: Jagex Terms and Conditions
You must not reverse-engineer, decompile or modify any Jagex Product client software in any way (except to the extent allowed by applicable law). You must not use a modified/customised version of the client software or attempt to copy, transfer or sub-license it. You must not create or provide any other means by which any Jagex Product may be played by others (including, without limitation, replacement or modified client/server software, server emulators). Please note that any such activity may constitute civil wrongs and/or criminal offences, and we reserve the right to take such action as appropriate in the circumstances should we become aware that such offences are being committed.

Now obviously the SMART client doesn't decompile, reverse-engineer, or anything of that sort. The technicalities arise in the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Right Act). WoW has had court cases regarding copyright violations similar to what is mentioned in Jagex's ToS (and won).

Now obviously all of the bits and pieces of the ToS will be subjective based on the reader, but ultimately only a lawyer specializing in these kind of matters would be able to make a strong verdict on the matter, so there's no point in arguing back and forth, because no one will change their mind.

Now obviously, like Benland said, the SMART client and the Villavu community are not a big enough threat for Jagex to go through all the time and money to bring him to court. Even then, if they succeeded, it would not pose a long-term solution for the "problem," and someone else could/would probably pop-up with another similar project. Ultimately legal action is highly, highly unprobable, and wouldn't be worth the effort on Jagex's end.

Like I said, I'm not trying to argue with everyone (I will not respond to people who blatantly attempt this, so don't waste your time).

If Benland wants to explain exactly why and how it does not violate the DMCA, then I'm all ears and would be very very interested to hear it. If he can explain how and why, and it's a pretty concrete method, who knows, maybe RiD could learn a few things and incorporate it himself. But, again, RiD refuses to do anything that would jeopardize the legality of his software, so if there's any doubt or legal grey area, I don't see him doing anything like it.

(Again, don't try arguing with me on this one, I will not play that game and respond, so do not waste your time)

I believe you'll just get a lot of opinions on this thread, as no one can really answer this thoroughly. In my own opinion, no SMART is technically not breaking the "DMCA", therefore causing no legal issues. SMART does not modify Runescape's client in any way, SMART simply loads it. The factors that make it minimizable are just canvas hacks, as you can read more about on Mopar's forums. They're quite separate from the client, just like the GUI and what not; no client modification.

As with popular RS loaders, like Swiftkit I believe, they're simply loading the client, and 100% legal in Jagex's eyes.

@Echo_: You make a good point mate. :p Even if Jagex wanted to pull some legal disputes against using SMART I would gladly take them up on that argument. There's plenty of current-day examples I could cite on how SMART is no more of a threat than FireFox, Swiftkit, ect…


Also one more detail I'd like to bring up. Let's not call other people names and talk badly about them. If the community over at RiD want to argue that SMART is indeed illegal then let them believe it. It's their opinion, they're entitled to believe whatever they want, just as we are. We don't need to fall to the level of attacking one another, here we're better than that… As the wise WT-Fakawi said, we're all in the RS-cheating scene, like it or not we're in the same boat here. Especially RiD & Simba, we've much in common.

You must not create or provide any other means by which any Jagex Product may be played by others

that part of the TOS is the most important as far as we are concerned. It clearly states that we can not create or provide a way to play RS other than the official site or client. This does not state the use of such a client though. so technically by this statement alone, both benland and those incharge of SRL have been in violation of the TOS (benland- created; SRL- i believe it automatically comes with srl, so they provide it)

edit: but if u look at the sentence before that, we clearly are breaking the ToS as well. so as my post way up above said…

From: x[Warrior]x3500
that part of the TOS is the most important as far as we are concerned. It clearly states that we can not create or provide a way to play RS other than the official site or client. This does not state the use of such a client though. so technically by this statement alone, both benland and those incharge of SRL have been in violation of the TOS (benland- created; SRL- i believe it automatically comes with srl, so they provide it)

edit: but if u look at the sentence before that, we clearly are breaking the ToS as well. so as my post way up above said…

From how I see it, Smart loads the official runescape site, but uses the java applet URL, so its no different from a browser, and all the canvas stuff is nothing to do with jagex, so nothing here is illegal lol, none of the original client code is touched

Minimizing RuneScape directly would be a violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). Users of any customized version of the RuneScape client, are violating real-world rules and could potentially be sued by Jagex.

We don't minimize RuneScape directly, to protect our users, and because (although we disagree with some aspects of gameplay) we absolutely respect Jagex's rights, according to the DMCA.

You can minimize your bot without committing an offense, with very little overhead, using Adam's Virtual Machine.

Does this mean if I open Runescape in Firefox and minimize it I'm going to court ;.;

Can't Jagex just sue RiD because he's making revenue by selling an alternate way of "playing" the game?

ITT: People with no legal experience pretending to be lawyers.

Stick to what Ben said. Don't know, don't care, it's not worth either sides' time (Jagex/ours) to do anything, so it doesn't matter.

;____;

From: Richard
Can't Jagex just sue RiD because he's making revenue by selling an alternate way of "playing" the game?

That's a good question. But if anyone were to be targeted by Jagex it would indeed be macros that draw in income. That's one of many factors that makes Simba invisible to Jagex, but this is beside the point. ;)

RiD is probably one of THE LEAST of Jagex's worries of the bots out there.
It would cost them a lot more in legal fees than the good it would cause to stop RiD.

The main reasons Nexus was sued was due to it's MASSIVE popularity causing 'irreparable harm' to Jagex, using injection/reflection to tamper/modify the client, and also BS reasons like CopyWrite (as in they used RS images on their site/bots).

RSBuddy was either threatened to be sued, or Jacmob signed a contract to stop development in order to gain a positionin at Jagex.

Even now, there are still the bigger, and more popular/harmful bots out there like PowerBot especially, and on a smaller scale EpicBot which use reflection/injection and cause way more harm to Runescape than RiD does.

So even if RiD were to implement a native minimzation feature and put himself 'at risk' of legal troubles, Jagex wouldn't care to waste the time or money to do anything about it since RiD is used on such a small scale and does no real harm to the game. It would just be another useful feature for the bot to have.

CopyPasta of a post I made.

From: BenLand100
How am I supposed to know if it is illegal or not? I neither know nor care what the laws are. If it is "illegal" it's not worth the cost of a court case and the worst case scenario is you get banned. You're taking that risk anyway, so it seems like a moot issue.

Wizzup? p.s. redname me again when you get a chance

Wow Jr. member Benland felt weird! :P

From: Flight
That's a good question. But if anyone were to be targeted by Jagex it would indeed be macros that draw in income. That's one of many factors that makes Simba invisible to Jagex, but this is beside the point. ;)

Jagex probably just don't see us a detrimental to the game, as we actually respect Jagex. Well, less and less so over the last year.
Is anything happening with Jagex against Powerbot these days?

Also, I just spilled Lucozade on my keyboard, which broke it, so I did all of this with the on-screen keyboard. It was a long and arduous process.

From: Richard
Can't Jagex just sue RiD because he's making revenue by selling an alternate way of "playing" the game?

No.

There's nothing illegal about his software, and it's legal to distribute. The bot is still using a normal browser, controlling the mouse and keyboard as a human would. It is accessing and playing Runescape through 100% official and legal ways. (Browser -> http://www.runescape,com/game.ws?j=1)

Yeah, RiD is against the ToS because macroing in general breaks a rule. But breaking that rule is not a violation of a real-life law unless you violate the section of their ToS I quoted, which would be a violation of the DMCA, which RiD does not do. Legally, it'd be the equivalent of Jagex taking someone to court who was banned for abusing a graphical bug.

Also, considering 95%+ of RiD members are P2P, Jagex would not only have to prove significant financial damages (which there are essentially none, considering most of the users only run one account at a time, and they pay membership, they aren't "goldfarming & RWTing" with the software, and it is no different than if the player were to sit down and do exactly what the bot does), they'd have to prove that the software RiD offers is illegal, which it isn't in any way. They will not and cannot sue someone in his position for something that is not illegal according to real-life laws.

Also, note that RiD has actually suffered losses over the last few months. It's not that profitable. He does it as a hobby on the side, not as a real job (which he has one), or a way to make a pretty penny.

He charges people for the software, that most definitely is a company with the intention of profiting. I can assure you that there is some legal clause that means he can't sell his software, not that I'm going to go to the effort to find it, but I can almost guarantee that Jagex could sue if they wanted, I just doubt it's financially viable.

From: Richard
He charges people for the software, that most definitely is a company with the intention of profiting. I can assure you that there is some legal clause that means he can't sell his software, not that I'm going to go to the effort to find it, but I can almost guarantee that Jagex could sue if they wanted, I just doubt it's financially viable.

It doesn't matter if he profits or not, it's the fact that he is causing no significant (if any) harm from his product, and his product is 100% legal. Just because it breaks a rule in-game doesn't mean that it's illegal or opens him up to being sued. There is nothing illegal about an ease-of-use software, I'm pretty positive he's spoken with a lawyer at some point to make sure.

I'm currently staying with someone who is educated and trained in the world of legal nonsense. She said that the most Jagex could get him for is Breach of Contract (e.g. Terms of Service), and like I said above, legally it would be the equivalent of bringing a player to court who was banned for abusing a graphical bug in-game (she agreed with that example).

This would be the exact violation:

9. Rules
You must comply with the current version of any rules, guidelines, codes of conduct or instructions specified in any Jagex Product including our game rules, the current version of which is linked to here. Any use of a Jagex Product not in accordance with the game rules exceeds the scope of the license granted by these terms and conditions and is prohibited.

And it would only be this exact excerpt of their rules: Software that generates input to our game applets. This includes software that automatically moves the mouse pointer or generates mouse clicks or key presses.

AND, even then, the ToS say nothing about actually creating any software that breaks that rule (providing it doesn't violate any of the other sections in that ToS, which RiD does not), only using the software.
Basically this means that it's only a breach of contract to use the software; not to make it. She then explained to me that since this specific breach of contract doesn't break any real-life laws, only in-game rules, the most Jagex would do is ban the account, and that there would be no case for something like this in the court system. She said even if there was a court case, the judge would essentially just say to ban the account, because that's all the violation would call for.

Years ago Jagex actually threatened legal action against RiD for something as simple as having a copyrighted image on his site (iirc, it was a picture of Bandos). He handled it easily by just removing the images, but the fact of the matter is that Jagex went through all that trouble just for a little image. If Jagex was willing to go through that trouble for some stupid pictures, I don't doubt they'd be willing to try other legal measures if they had them as an option, which they don't.

RiD's bots work by having all of the decision making code stored on secure servers that he rents (costing him literally hundreds a month), and the bot users run the 'client' which must make authorized connections to the server in order to receive instructions for any kind of movements, clicks, keystrokes, etc. Imagine the server as the Brain, and the 'client' as the arms, hands, mouth, and eyes. The 'eyes' sends what it sees to the brain (server), then the Brain determines the next best action, then sends the commands back to the mouth(for talking)/arms(moving the mouse)/hands(clicking) for it to carry out the commands (mouth could technically count as hands for the keyboard :P). This means that every single hour someone bots with RiD, it costs him server resources, and in essence, money. That's why the bots are not a one-time payment; why he has to have a payment system like he does. When most bots are free (like they are now in 2.0 beta), or people aren't buying credits, it's easy for RiD to lose money.

From: Zyt3x
In Norway it's completely legal to break any TOS, unless doing so means breaking any law, of course.

same deal in USA, surprisingly

From: Trent!
It doesn't matter if he profits or not, it's the fact that he is causing no significant (if any) harm from his product, and his product is 100% legal. Just because it breaks a rule in-game doesn't mean that it's illegal or opens him up to being sued. There is nothing illegal about an ease-of-use software, I'm pretty positive he's spoken with a lawyer at some point to make sure.

I'm currently staying with someone who is educated and trained in the world of legal nonsense. She said that the most Jagex could get him for is Breach of Contract (e.g. Terms of Service), and like I said above, legally it would be the equivalent of bringing a player to court who was banned for abusing a graphical bug in-game (she agreed with that example).

This would be the exact violation:


And it would only be this exact excerpt of their rules: Software that generates input to our game applets. This includes software that automatically moves the mouse pointer or generates mouse clicks or key presses.

AND, even then, the ToS say nothing about actually creating any software that breaks that rule (providing it doesn't violate any of the other sections in that ToS, which RiD does not), only using the software.
Basically this means that it's only a breach of contract to use the software; not to make it. She then explained to me that since this specific breach of contract doesn't break any real-life laws, only in-game rules, the most Jagex would do is ban the account, and that there would be no case for something like this in the court system. She said even if there was a court case, the judge would essentially just say to ban the account, because that's all the violation would call for.

Years ago Jagex actually threatened legal action against RiD for something as simple as having a copyrighted image on his site (iirc, it was a picture of Bandos). He handled it easily by just removing the images, but the fact of the matter is that Jagex went through all that trouble just for a little image. If Jagex was willing to go through that trouble for some stupid pictures, I don't doubt they'd be willing to try other legal measures if they had them as an option, which they don't.

RiD's bots work by having all of the decision making code stored on secure servers that he rents (costing him literally hundreds a month), and the bot users run the 'client' which must make authorized connections to the server in order to receive instructions for any kind of movements, clicks, keystrokes, etc. Imagine the server as the Brain, and the 'client' as the arms, hands, mouth, and eyes. The 'eyes' sends what it sees to the brain (server), then the Brain determines the next best action, then sends the commands back to the mouth(for talking)/arms(moving the mouse)/hands(clicking) for it to carry out the commands (mouth could technically count as hands for the keyboard :P). This means that every single hour someone bots with RiD, it costs him server resources, and in essence, money. That's why the bots are not a one-time payment; why he has to have a payment system like he does. When most bots are free (like they are now in 2.0 beta), or people aren't buying credits, it's easy for RiD to lose money.

Your the one the attempted to tell me Breaking a ToS was against the law and that RiD loading a minimizable client would be against the law too

From: Trent!
There is nothing illegal about an ease-of-use software

Then this would be the category SMART falls under. if you're allowed to use a client like Firefox to load Runescape, making one that is minimizable is ease-of-use, correct?

From: Trent!
It doesn't matter if he profits or not, it's the fact that he is causing no significant (if any) harm from his product, and his product is 100% legal. Just because it breaks a rule in-game doesn't mean that it's illegal or opens him up to being sued. There is nothing illegal about an ease-of-use software, I'm pretty positive he's spoken with a lawyer at some point to make sure.

I'm currently staying with someone who is educated and trained in the world of legal nonsense. She said that the most Jagex could get him for is Breach of Contract (e.g. Terms of Service), and like I said above, legally it would be the equivalent of bringing a player to court who was banned for abusing a graphical bug in-game (she agreed with that example).

This would be the exact violation:


And it would only be this exact excerpt of their rules: Software that generates input to our game applets. This includes software that automatically moves the mouse pointer or generates mouse clicks or key presses.

AND, even then, the ToS say nothing about actually creating any software that breaks that rule (providing it doesn't violate any of the other sections in that ToS, which RiD does not), only using the software.
Basically this means that it's only a breach of contract to use the software; not to make it. She then explained to me that since this specific breach of contract doesn't break any real-life laws, only in-game rules, the most Jagex would do is ban the account, and that there would be no case for something like this in the court system. She said even if there was a court case, the judge would essentially just say to ban the account, because that's all the violation would call for.

Years ago Jagex actually threatened legal action against RiD for something as simple as having a copyrighted image on his site (iirc, it was a picture of Bandos). He handled it easily by just removing the images, but the fact of the matter is that Jagex went through all that trouble just for a little image. If Jagex was willing to go through that trouble for some stupid pictures, I don't doubt they'd be willing to try other legal measures if they had them as an option, which they don't.

RiD's bots work by having all of the decision making code stored on secure servers that he rents (costing him literally hundreds a month), and the bot users run the 'client' which must make authorized connections to the server in order to receive instructions for any kind of movements, clicks, keystrokes, etc. Imagine the server as the Brain, and the 'client' as the arms, hands, mouth, and eyes. The 'eyes' sends what it sees to the brain (server), then the Brain determines the next best action, then sends the commands back to the mouth(for talking)/arms(moving the mouse)/hands(clicking) for it to carry out the commands (mouth could technically count as hands for the keyboard :P). This means that every single hour someone bots with RiD, it costs him server resources, and in essence, money. That's why the bots are not a one-time payment; why he has to have a payment system like he does. When most bots are free (like they are now in 2.0 beta), or people aren't buying credits, it's easy for RiD to lose money.

Ah right, I honestly didn't realise the level of security he'd undertaken. So there is absolutely no legal issue with using automaton software? I'm honestly surprised that there hasn't been some Digital Usage law that forces you to physically be interacting with software :p

Sue me… I doubt Jagex has time for a bunch of lowlifes like us… if they wanted to get to the heart they would sue Wizzup and Fakawi- maybe even Benland…
if I got a court notice for botting Runescape I would applaud the justice system.

If it was illegal to use a Minimizable client, why hasn't Jagex shut down PB?

From: BMWxi
If it was illegal to use a Minimizable client, why hasn't Jagex shut down PB?

They did once, but PB moved hosts to China to avoid jurisdiction or something like that. (it was rsbot.org before)

From: Richard
They did once, but PB moved hosts to China to avoid jurisdiction or something like that. (it was rsbot.org before)

So it was the mimimizeable client they got shut down for? :unsure:

From: BMWxi
So it was the mimimizeable client they got shut down for? :unsure:

No, it was just the domain that was seized. See here for the ruling.

From: Method
No, it was just the domain that was seized. See here for the ruling.

Thanks for the link, that was an interesting read. On the basis of that ruling, could Jagex also seize projectrs06.com?

From: BMWxi
Thanks for the link, that was an interesting read. On the basis of that ruling, could Jagex also seize projectrs06.com?

probably. The owner of the site has no money to get a decent lawyer..

I spoke to the best lawyer ever and he said we are wasting our time arguing about things we don't know enough about and worrying about something that isn't going to happen

From: BMWxi
Thanks for the link, that was an interesting read. On the basis of that ruling, could Jagex also seize projectrs06.com?

Mark Gerhard (CEO) said on camera he will be bringing Paris and Huan (name of the owners of PB/EB) to court and press civil and criminal charges.

Pretty sure Jagex could charge them with many things related to the DMCA.

Blizzard once successfully sued a company that made a client that loaded WoW and some of their evidence was the fact that the program loaded WoW into system RAM, and since it technically counts as making a copy, it was copyright infringement.

From: Trent!
Mark Gerhard (CEO) said on camera he will be bringing Paris and Huan (name of the owners of PB/EB) to court and press civil and criminal charges.

Can't wait, although I will definitely not be holding my breath.

From: Trent!
Mark Gerhard (CEO) said on camera he will be bringing Paris and Huan (name of the owners of PB/EB) to court and press civil and criminal charges.

Pretty sure Jagex could charge them with many things related to the DMCA.

Blizzard once successfully sued a company that made a client that loaded WoW and some of their evidence was the fact that the program loaded WoW into system RAM, and since it technically counts as making a copy, it was copyright infringement.

Runescape is a Java application that can load in a browser and in a wrapper

Wow is a stand alone Client, so blizzards TOS is completely different, blizzard also have wayy more resources than Jagex do, Will be interesting to see if a court favoured PB over Jagex tho, I have no idea what PB are actually doing to the client lol,

As far as I know, smart only loads the client like anything else, theres no changing it from the exact way it would normally load into ram, only fooling the java applet into thinking it's running in 800x600 resolution I'm guessing, which is not touching it

If SMART was illegal, then playing Runescape on any browser except for the official client is illegal.

Probably one of the last things I'll say on the matter:

From: RiD
Loading a copy of RuneScape into memory, as part of your software, is a no-go area - whether you modify the applet or not. But a standalone application which controls only your PC, is fine for you to use and for me to produce. Jagex may not like it, but we aren't breaking any laws or violating the DMCA.

RAM is getting cheaper all the time, VM's are getting more and more practical and have uses beyond just botting. I recommend you setup a VM and run your bots minimized that way.

From: Trent!
Probably one of the last things I'll say on the matter:

Then using Swiftkit is illegal, even though it's just your default browser in a window.

From: rjj95
Then using Swiftkit is illegal, even though it's just your default browser in a window.

You fail to understand that Swiftkit has already had face-to-face contact with Jagex and they have organized an agreement.

From: Trent!
You fail to understand that Swiftkit has already had face-to-face contact with Jagex and they have organized an agreement.

That was when they had a world switcher that actually did mess with the client it was called swift switch because you could use it to get into a full world

Of course smart is against the law…Ben is going to jail soon and all simba users will be banned

An example is OSX (mac OS). The terms are you cannot build a hackintosh and use the OS of Apple's. However, many have done it and Apple is not going to pursue only a handful of people using Hack machines.

From: Ashaman88
Of course smart is against the law…Ben is going to jail soon and all simba users will be banned

I heard he already was in jail, Jagex phoned the court and explained the situation with SMART, and the court agreed there was no need for a trial so they just sentenced him to life. That's why he's been so inactive.

From: BMWxi
I heard he already was in jail, Jagex phoned the court and explained the situation with SMART, and the court agreed there was no need for a trial so they just sentenced him to life. That's why he's been so inactive.

So it was Jagex who hacked his account!?!? dum dum dummmm

From: bmwxi
i heard he already was in jail, jagex phoned the court and explained the situation with smart, and the court agreed there was no need for a trial so they just sentenced him to life. That's why he's been so inactive.

lmao!