SRL Archive - News and General

For those who haven't heard yet and were too busy playing runescape…

Here is the BBC link:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20730717

Will the US laws ever change when it comes to firearms? This should be a wake-up call amongst many others, but I fear it will just be forgotten like in so many other cases before…

This is very tragic and just proves how time and time again a tradition of fire-arms ruins peoples lives. The USA is not a warzone nor is it a hunting ground. When will people change their ways in this country and voice their opinions so strongly that the government will have no choice, but to give in!?
Come on people, more people die of bullets yearly than in in any other country. Is this even surprising when you see an elementary school nurse in possession of an assault rifle?

Aside from this there has been another incident in China with a person knifing 22 children in a school in Chengping, but this seems to have been overshadowed a bit by the events in America.

http://metro.co.uk/2012/12/14/man-wielding-knife-stabs-22-children-at-school-in-chengping-china-3316760/

The real question is why are people killing people? Take away guns and people will still find ways to kill people. Granted maybe smaller scale (though it's pretty easy to make homemade bombs), but the real issue is why are people killing people? And what can we do to help fix it?

London is mostly knife related crime because it's easy to get a knife however its harder to kill 20 people with a knife than kill 20 people with a gun, US have got to the point of no return where people will still think carrying a gun is acceptable, until they fully border guns import/export then you will see a change

The second amendment has nothing to do with any of this, and either way, he would have got the gun. I think it said it was his mother's?

Also, criminals have access to the black market. It is not as simple as ban the gun laws.
Only way to stop these killings would be to stop/hinder the killers at birth. But even that looks impossible.
~Rez

From: Rezozo
The second amendment has nothing to do with any of this, and either way, he would have got the gun. I think it said it was his mother's?

Also, criminals have access to the black market. It is not as simple as ban the gun laws.
Only way to stop these killings would be to stop/hinder the killers at birth. But even that looks impossible.
~Rez

It's very difficult to get weapons from the black market. Yes, it is as simple as banning guns. Look at any other country - the death toll from guns is way lower than in the USA…

On top of that, if you have seen the movie 'Bowling for Columbine' you will know that Canadians own even more weapons per household than Americans. Yet, there are no incidences of gun killing sprees.
A Canadian schoolboy interviewed commented that 'maybe Americans are just too stupid to carry guns'. What other explanation is there? There must be something wrong with American society if there are no similar incidents in bordering Canada, where even more guns are owned by people.

There are some very sophisticated, respectful American citizens, but there are also a lot of Americans who go around shooting innocents. In no other country in the world has this been the case!
I say ban the usage of guns in the USA is the only solution. Why do you need guns? Again, America is NOT a warzone and NOT a hunting ground. This is a place where normal people wish to live normal lives.

Finally, how can you even say that banning guns won't stop these issues in the USA? No attempt has even been made. Countries who have bans on weapons do not see things like this happening.
America, it's time for action. Let's hope this is the moment when things finally start to change for the sake of keeping future generations safe from these horrors!

I don't see how criminals will all be carrying guns if they get outlawed. If guns are outlawed, they will be much harder to get. No one asks why criminals don't all carry around full autos even though their illegal. But I'm not really for total gun ban because guns and hunting is a big part of American culture.

From: Rincewind
I don't see how criminals will all be carrying guns if they get outlawed. If guns are outlawed, they will be much harder to get. No one asks why criminals don't all carry around full autos even though their illegal. But I'm not really for total gun ban because guns and hunting is a big part of American culture.

Guns are illegal to carry in the UK but a lot of people still have guns to hunt and shoot in the countryside, it's just the fact that the states you can have one in your pocket you get searched its cool if you have a licenece or whatever down here in UK you get stopped with anything but a hunting gun and that's it jail time

There is a reason all these shootings are happening lately and it goes much further than most person can fathom that is all I will say for now. Do research on the elites and you will see the clear objective about everything going on in the world right now.

Treat mental illness and you would stop majority of these incidents!

From: Google
There is a reason all these shootings are happening lately and it goes much further than most person can fathom that is all I will say for now. Do research on the elites and you will see the clear objective about everything going on in the world right now.

The clear objective being? Whose objective is this? I can't follow what you said at all…

An elite in political and sociological theory, is a small group of people who control a disproportionate amount of wealth or political power.

According to wiki. How does this relate to these gun shootings? Please do explain more and maybe point to some sources as to where you got this from? I would indeed be interested to find out more!

As to…
Treat mental illness and you would stop majority of these incidents!

So how come these gun shootings mostly just happen in America? Is the majority of the world's population
that can be identified as 'mentally ill' located in this comparatively small part of the world?

Could you imagine being at a point in your life where murdering your mom and dozens of innocent kids is your only choice?

People will find ways to kill people. YES this is a fact, but let me ask: its more easy to kill 20 kids and a mother with a semi auto or with a stone or knife?

You brag about being the country of freedom but when this "freedom" affects other it stops being a right and a liberty.

i hope thos criminals get what they deserve torchur for days =)

From: print
i hope thos criminals get what they deserve torchur for days =)

He killed himself

From: print
i hope thos criminals get what they deserve torchur for days =)

The shooter committed suicide.. and only a 10-year old would post something as ordinary as this.

From: Rincewind
He killed himself

From: Runehack123
The shooter committed suicide.. and only a 10-year old would post something as ordinary as this.

I don't feel he deserves to die that easily. I wish he had been caught so he could be punished and put in prison for the rest of his life where he will have to life knowing what he has done + get abused by inmates.

To add to the debate, treating "mental illness" isn't something I would advocate. It would be the same psychiatrists who prescribe adderall to 3 year olds for ADHD who would be administering drugs to loads of people (if we drug them all, then the really sick ones won't do anything too bad…right?).
EDIT: And Google is right, America is being manipulated.

No matter what is done to the killer (if alive, should be taken care of by the justice system anyway) it won't change the fact that a lot of innocent children died out there and those who survive will be left with this traumatizing experience.
Nothing can change the fact that these innocents died and I am sure that not just America, but also the rest of the world will pray for those who lost their loved ones.
Queen Elizabeth II sent a message to President Barack Obama, saying she was shocked to learn of the "dreadful loss of life"..

One point about Canada is that you simply can't go to the store and buy a fully automatic gun. Although I'm not sure about Canadians owning more guns than Americans.

Imo I think the US should just ban fully automatics. They aren't hunting guns, or even protecting guns, their only purpose is mass killing as far as I can see.

From: BMWxi
One point about Canada is that you simply can't go to the store and buy a fully automatic gun. Although I'm not sure about Canadians owning more guns than Americans.

Yes, I doubt that part is true aswell… And yes, in my opinion possibly this would be a good start to introduce legislations on weapons in America? The people there have a strong gun culture, but I'm still hoping to see something done about it especially after this shocking incident.

From: BMWxi
One point about Canada is that you simply can't go to the store and buy a fully automatic gun. Although I'm not sure about Canadians owning more guns than Americans.

Imo I think the US should just ban fully automatics. They aren't hunting guns, or even protecting guns, their only purpose is mass killing as far as I can see.

Please name 5 times were a legitiment fully auto gun owner has commited a masscre in the past 5 years.

Look at the united states biggest cities (new york,washington dc, los angelos) how many gun crimes in those cities are commited by legal gun owners?

Look at towns in arizona imagine if you couldn't have guns there mexican cartels would control a lot of these…

A sign that sais "no guns allowed" reads "helpless victims" to a criminal.

Also banning guns does not mean it will stop a lot of crime, look at africa and south america.

From: Runehack123

Aside from this there has been another incident in China with a person knifing 22 children in a school in Chengping…..

Seems like a great Killstreak. 3 More and he would have gotten the tactical nuke.

Well clearly guns aren't the issue considering the knife attack in China. These people go on killing sprees because they are depressed, insane, and have no hope for the future. To me, the blame for these incidents falls on society and how we treat these sort of people.

From: Echo_
Well clearly guns aren't the issue considering the knife attack in China. These people go on killing sprees because they are depressed, insane, and have no hope for the future. To me, the blame for these incidents falls on society and how we treat these sort of people.

Agreed, the weapons not at fault, if people want to hurt others, they will find a way to do it

Before anyone cites the Second Amendment for anything, here's a fun fact: it was written with the intent of allowing states to possess private militias in addition to the national army. It wasn't written with the intent of allowing civilians to carry weapons.

From: Imanoobbot
Seems like a great Killstreak. 3 More and he would have gotten the tactical nuke.

There's a place in hell for people with your kinda humor.

From: BMWxi
One point about Canada is that you simply can't go to the store and buy a fully automatic gun. Although I'm not sure about Canadians owning more guns than Americans.

Imo I think the US should just ban fully automatics. They aren't hunting guns, or even protecting guns, their only purpose is mass killing as far as I can see.

If you're gonna talk about how lax another country's laws are, actually read up on them first. No one in America can "simply can't go to the store and buy a fully automatic gun" either. Some states ban them completely, and in those that allow them automatics are highly regulated by the BATF. As a short summary of the process you must declare the exact weapon you wish to buy (down to a particular gun's specific serial number), give a full set of fingerprints and numerous forms of identification tying you to it, BATF receives the weapon from the seller, and if everything checks out it is transferred to you.

All of this is irrelevant to the topic at hand, as automatics weren't used in the incident. Two semi-automatic pistols only.

There hasn't been much talk about gun policy by the president or other party members so I doubt there will be any kind of reform. There have only been a handful gun laws passed in the last several years. I know Bush signed a few and Obama has only signed one.

From: Mr[S]
London is mostly knife related crime because it's easy to get a knife however its harder to kill 20 people with a knife than kill 20 people with a gun, US have got to the point of no return where people will still think carrying a gun is acceptable, until they fully border guns import/export then you will see a change

I think the number of people killed is a non issue as I feel that the horror of the death of one innocent person is the same as 20.

The weapon used is besides the point. A weapon can be used to kill many defenseless people as that chinese man has aptly demostrated. but what's happening to society that caused an honor grade student to lose all hope in life, and then proceed to kill his mum and her students.

There was also another shooting this morning in a hospital, luckily no one was mortally wounded, the gunman was killed.

So sad that there are some people in the world who think its okay to go around and killing people before then turning the gun on themselves. If you have depression or other life problems don't take it out on innocent people.

From: Imanoobbot
Seems like a great Killstreak. 3 More and he would have gotten the tactical nuke.

Go back to playing runescape child.

As for this…

From: slushpuppy
The weapon used is besides the point. A weapon can be used to kill many defenseless people as that chinese man has aptly demostrated.

If you had actually bothered reading the article, which clearly you did not, you would have seen that 20 something children were hospitalized and none of these children actually died. Needless to say, the damage would have been far greater if he had access to a gun.
At least read the article before you aptly try to refer to something you haven't even bothered reading about.

From: Echo_
Well clearly guns aren't the issue considering the knife attack in China.

I would rather be hurt than killed, as all those victims in China were. Guns are a far superior murder weapon - it is far harder to kill the same amount with but a knife.

From: Runehack123
Go back to playing runescape child.

As for this…



If you had actually bothered reading the article, which clearly you did not, you would have seen that 20 something children were hospitalized and none of these children actually died. Needless to say, the damage would have been far greater if he had access to a gun.
At least read the article before you aptly try to refer to something you haven't even bothered reading about.

Oh yes I love such progressive thinking right there mate. 20 injured children who could have permanently disabilities as a result of the attacks. It humors me when you even try to compare "damage" as if injuries or death can be measures on weighting scale.

Of course you may not be capable of thinking that far ahead, so such a response tend that focus on one sensational issue without looking at the subject in a wider code is expected. Just like how you quoted only one sentence of my reply.

From: slushpuppy
Oh yes I love such progressive thinking right there mate. 20 injured children who could have permanently disabilities as a result of the attacks. It humors me when you even try to compare "damage" as if injuries or death can be measures on weighting scale.

Of course you may not be capable of thinking that far ahead, so such a response tend that focus on one sensational issue without looking at the subject in a wider code is expected. Just like how you quoted only one sentence of my reply.

None of those attacked were killed but 16 pupils were taken to hospital, two of whom were seriously injured. No motive has been given for the attack.

Just think about what would have happened if that knife would have been a semi-automatic gun. The only reason why those children are still lucky to be alive is because you can do less damage with a knife compared to a semi-automatic. I'm not measuring injuries and death on a weighing scale, but if you would like to interpret it that way that's your opinion.

Why are you even trying to argue about something if you still haven't read the article? You talk about 20 children who could/would have disabilities. If you had read the article you would see that this isn't the case.

From: Runehack123
None of those attacked were killed but 16 pupils were taken to hospital, two of whom were seriously injured. No motive has been given for the attack.

Just think about what would have happened if that knife would have been a semi-automatic gun. The only reason why those children are still lucky to be alive is because you can do less damage with a knife compared to a semi-automatic. I'm not measuring injuries and death on a weighing scale, but if you would like to interpret it that way that's your opinion.

Why are you even trying to argue about something if you still haven't read the article? You talk about 20 children who could/would have disabilities. If you had read the article you would see that this isn't the case.

Oh don't structure arguments clearly based on hypothesis and your opinions, then later try to take it back by saying it is my prerogative to interpret as they so obviously are.

Your scenario is so naive. I can also construct my own scenarios that favors my viewpoint like: Maybe if you banned guns in tha US, that student would have constructed a home made bomb that kills everyone in that building suddenly?

Unfortunately this is real life, not in your fairy tale world. Knife wounds, especially slashing, would leave skin surface impressions even after healing. Don't forget mental trama after that. However feel free to assume that "non serious" injury automatically means the victim will have a full recovery after that.

Maybe perhaps if you read my replies fully, then we wouldn't have this circular debate.

Other countries have looser gun laws than the US.
Clearly some countries are better equipped to being given this liberty.

It's always someone mentally unstable.
If they're Anglo-Saxon they're mentally unstable. If they're African-American they're a gangbanger. If they're Latino they're in a cartel. There are stereotypes everywhere, doesn't mean they can all be lumped into the same basket. Some people are just sadistic.

Criminals will acquire weapons illegally if you ban them.
Here in Australia it is still possible to acquire a gun illegally, there is no doubt about that. But it's alot harder than if you or one of your relatives can purchase one with minimal questions asked because it is your right as a citizen.

What about hunting.
Go for it, there are people all over the world who acquire guns legally and go hunting but they don't shoot up a school because of their mental issues. Canada is your immediate neighbour and while hunting is a big part of their culture I've not heard of massacres like this.

If we can't arm ourselves our crime rate will run free.
Maybe you need to take a look at your society and culture as a whole if crime will run rampant without the need for every law abiding citizen to carry/own a weapon to feel safe. If you think this right is helping your freedom then you need to seriously think about what freedom is.

If there are other common arguments that I've missed do let me know. I'm not even remotely saying that there aren't problems in the rest of the world, but put simply I do not hear about 20 or so children being gunned down in a school or wherever else in the rest of the world on a regular basis.

The incident in China was horrific, don't get me wrong. Also a testament to how a person looking to harm others can and will without access to a firearm. But let's face it, 16 hospitalised is alot better than 20 dead. I'd rather live out my life with ailments than not even be able to see out my childhood.

From: slushpuppy
Oh don't structure arguments clearly based on hypothesis and your opinions, then later try to take it back by saying it is my prerogative to interpret as they so obviously are.

Your scenario is so naive. I can also construct my own scenarios that favors my viewpoint like: Maybe if you banned guns in tha US, that student would have constructed a home made bomb that kills everyone in that building suddenly?

Unfortunately this is real life, not in your fairy tale world. Knife wounds, especially slashing, would leave skin surface impressions even after healing. Don't forget mental trama after that. However feel free to assume that "non serious" injury automatically means the victim will have a full recovery after that.

Maybe perhaps if you read my replies fully, then we wouldn't have this circular debate.

Calling me mate, saying I live in a fairy tale, telling me that I didn't even read your post and calling my 'whole scenario' naive is just proof of your disrespect towards my opinion.

Not once did I state that these victims would have a full recovery or not suffer mentally from this experience so how are you even concluding that I feel this way?
This isn't even an argument anymore, it's disrespectful and you're basing it on things I didn't say or do. In my POV you're trolling by deliberately misspelling words like trauma, making up lies and trying to start an argument with me. If a mod sees this I hope action will be taken against you.

From: Ashaman88
The real question is why are people killing people? Take away guns and people will still find ways to kill people. Granted maybe smaller scale (though it's pretty easy to make homemade bombs), but the real issue is why are people killing people? And what can we do to help fix it?

I'm going with Ashaman. Cars cause more deaths than guns. Yet, people don't complain about cars as much as guns [from what i see]. Is this event tragic? Of course. Should something be done to prevent it from happening again? Yes. However, gun regulating would not change much. We need to focus on how to get the world out of this hell hole.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/05/bruce-krafft/comparing-car-and-gun-fatalities-is-misleading-and-irrelevant/

For all we know he could have mixed 2 household chemicals together to make a nerve gas ( I forget which 2 is it) and killed 500 children eating lunch. Does this now mean we have to ban cleaning chemicals?

Canadians own even more weapons per household than Americans

This isn't true, don't believe everything you hear in documentaries. ;)

Maybe you need to take a look at your society and culture as a whole if crime will run rampant without the need for every law abiding citizen to carry/own a weapon to feel safe. If you think this right is helping your freedom then you need to seriously think about what freedom is.

This is certainly not the attitude I have, and if someone has such an attitude, so what? Pretty soon you will be criticizing women for carrying Pepper Spray. Sure there is a difference between paranoia and safety, but owning/carrying a gun for safety is not paranoia.

You're missing the overall point, criminals are criminals, they exist in every society. And it seems crime exists more in societies with strict gun laws more.

Criminals will acquire weapons illegally if you ban them.
Here in Australia it is still possible to acquire a gun illegally, there is no doubt about that. But it's alot harder than if you or one of your relatives can purchase one with minimal questions asked because it is your right as a citizen.

If there were a ban on guns, there would be a massive black market for them, there likely isn't really a black market now because acquiring a gun is legal. You would only accomplish making it impossible for for citizens to own guns, and only marginally harder for criminals to get guns.

How many crimes do you think never happened because there is a high possibility of the homeowner having a gun?

From: rjj95
For all we know he could have mixed 2 household chemicals together to make a nerve gas ( I forget which 2 is it) and killed 500 children eating lunch. Does this now mean we have to ban cleaning chemicals?

guns don't kill people, people kill people (with guns)

From: DannyRS
guns don't kill people, people kill people (with guns)

Exactly what I'm saying. It's hard to argue about this with people because as usual liberals will just be like "WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH U DO YOU HATE THE 20 CHILDREN THAT DIED YOU DEVIL OH EM GEE"

For those arguing America's gun laws need to change, please tell me how well criminals obey laws. If we were to ban guns we'd take them from the good citizens and have no effect on the "bad guys". There are WAY to many ghettos to remove guns from. No, the law should not change.

The real concern to me is that Westboro Baptist Church announced they'd picket the funerals of the deceased hours after the incident. Anonymous and other groups responded by ddosing their website, leaking their private information(including the founders social security number) and spreading awareness. We have so many sick sadistic citizens. I gave up on this country, completely. I have no "pride" for my country.

The majority of crimes in the US committed with guns are not committed by people that have obtained these guns legally. Yes, banning guns may reduce gun related crime. However, this will cause an increase in other crimes. Would you attempt to break into someones house and steal from them/rape them if there was a chance that they may have a gun? Look at the state of Texas. They have a low crime rate…Why? The majority of the citizens there carry guns.

From: rjj95
For all we know he could have mixed 2 household chemicals together to make a nerve gas ( I forget which 2 is it) and killed 500 children eating lunch. Does this now mean we have to ban cleaning chemicals?

Exactly, just look at what took place at Columbine. The killers had crafted 2 bombs from propane tanks that if they had gone off, would have killed and injured the majority of the students in the cafeteria (over 500 students).

Blaming guns for murder is like blaming pencils for spelling mistakes ;)

From: Echo_
Exactly, just look at what took place at Columbine. The killers had crafted 2 bombs from propane tanks that if they had gone off, would have killed and injured the majority of the students in the cafeteria (over 500 students).

Blaming guns for murder is like blaming pencils for spelling mistakes ;)

You can ask any non American citizen about guns and the same answer will come up, you can ask the same to an citizen of the states and the same answer will come up but vice versa, 39 people died last year in the UK due to gun related crimes, 9500 people died in the states due to gun related crime, calculating the facts that USA = x3 size of UK so 39x 3 = 117, 117 gun related crimes to 9500…yeah guns don't kill :norris:

Edit - Sorry found out that its 1/5 population of USA so just add another 78 murders to that number already

http://www.juancole.com/2011/01/over-9000-murders-by-gun-in-us-39-in-uk.html

From: Mr[S]
You can ask any non American citizen about guns and the same answer will come up, you can ask the same to an citizen of the states and the same answer will come up but vice versa, 39 people died last year in the UK due to gun related crimes, 9500 people died in the states due to gun related crime, calculating the facts that USA = x3 size of UK so 39x 3 = 117, 117 gun related crimes to 9500…yeah guns don't kill :norris:

Edit - Sorry found out that its 1/5 population of USA so just add another 78 murders to that number already

http://www.juancole.com/2011/01/over-9000-murders-by-gun-in-us-39-in-uk.html

^ Be fair, if heroin and meth were legal there would be tons more people using them. I would assume that banning guns would also reduce the amount of guns on the streets too.

From: BMWxi
^ Be fair, if heroin and meth were legal there would be tons more people using them. I would assume that banning guns would also reduce the amount of guns on the streets too.

Really? Take a look at the addiction rate and tell me you see a difference in the past say, 70 years?

From: footballjds
Really? Take a look at the addiction rate and tell me you see a difference in the past say, 70 years?

Yes, addiction has gone up. If it were legal, guess what? It would still go up, and probably faster.

From: Mr[S]
You can ask any non American citizen about guns and the same answer will come up, you can ask the same to an citizen of the states and the same answer will come up but vice versa, 39 people died last year in the UK due to gun related crimes, 9500 people died in the states due to gun related crime, calculating the facts that USA = x3 size of UK so 39x 3 = 117, 117 gun related crimes to 9500…yeah guns don't kill :norris:

Edit - Sorry found out that its 1/5 population of USA so just add another 78 murders to that number already

http://www.juancole.com/2011/01/over-9000-murders-by-gun-in-us-39-in-uk.html

Please count how many of those are done by legit gun owners.. KTHXBAI

From: rjj95
Please count how many of those are done by legit gun owners.. KTHXBAI

Lots of illegal guns were originally purchased by someone with a licence, then sold to someone without one.

From: Runehack123
Calling me mate, saying I live in a fairy tale, telling me that I didn't even read your post and calling my 'whole scenario' naive is just proof of your disrespect towards my opinion.

Not once did I state that these victims would have a full recovery or not suffer mentally from this experience so how are you even concluding that I feel this way?
This isn't even an argument anymore, it's disrespectful and you're basing it on things I didn't say or do. In my POV you're trolling by deliberately misspelling words like trauma, making up lies and trying to start an argument with me. If a mod sees this I hope action will be taken against you.

Any respect for your opinions disappeared when you failed to provide any coherent response to my points but repeatedly accused me of not reading the article. Hence, I regard your opinions as ********. But I rather not use that word. Don't play the high moral card by accusing me of starting an argument with you.

On topic.

Firearm control can work in certain countries due to their geography and will of the people, like Australia, UK, Singapore, etc. These countries mentioned are divided from their neighbors by seas. This immensely reduces the chance that a gun smuggler can bring weapons in as entry points are limited, patrolled by border police, and the seas make it difficult to bring in a huge cache without getting spotted. This is in contrast to the US there just right over the southern border, smugglers are bringing in drugs, weapons, illegal immigrants into the control without albeit.

Good Economic stability is also important as citizens will feel more contented and the tendency to go and do something stupid will be less. In spite of the current economic downturn, Switzerland still has less gun crime than the US despite almost every citizen owning a rifle.


http://www.guncite.com/swissgun-kopel.html
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/index.html

This is certainly not the attitude I have, and if someone has such an attitude, so what? Pretty soon you will be criticizing women for carrying Pepper Spray. Sure there is a difference between paranoia and safety, but owning/carrying a gun for safety is not paranoia.

Pepper spray doesn't kill people. Nor does it get used to massacre a class full of children. Thus I will never criticise women for carrying it.

If there were a ban on guns, there would be a massive black market for them, there likely isn't really a black market now because acquiring a gun is legal. You would only accomplish making it impossible for for citizens to own guns, and only marginally harder for criminals to get guns.

We essentially have a ban on firearms over here and I am telling you that we don't have the same issue the US clearly does.

Lots of illegal guns were originally purchased by someone with a licence, then sold to someone without one.

This.

Really? Take a look at the addiction rate and tell me you see a difference in the past say, 70 years?

Owning guns is addictive? Like, the purchase of one actively alters the chemicals released in your brain to make you want/need more?

From: slushpuppy
Any respect for your opinions disappeared when you failed to provide any coherent response to my points but repeatedly accused me of not reading the article. Hence, I regard your opinions as ********. But I rather not use that word. Don't play the high moral card by accusing me of starting an argument with you.

I understand that internet anonymity must feel empowering, but flaming in a thread about children dying just because you disagree with something that was said is immature and inconsiderate.
As for the nature of my replies - I believe they were all in the official forum language so don't blame me for not giving a 'coherent response'.
It's clear to me that you are frustrated, but this has nothing to do with this thread and should be taken out somewhere outside of your parent's house, an internet forum or an online game e.g. a martial art's class or the gym. It's just not healthy to deal with personal issues this way and treat online forums/games as a way of stress-relief. :)

I actually do hope Obama outlaws guns shame it took so many massacres and little children to die for it maybe to happen

From: footballjds
For those arguing America's gun laws need to change, please tell me how well criminals obey laws. If we were to ban guns we'd take them from the good citizens and have no effect on the "bad guys". There are WAY to many ghettos to remove guns from.

That is because it is now far too late. You are applying an 18th century law to the 21st century, and against its original intent and purpose, which should not be the case. You have created the mentality that you are unable to live without sidearms, a mentality that is clearly not the case (as evident by strides in anti-gun laws of other nations). Answer me this: why does every other Western nation see a problem with American's having the "right" to bear sidearms (yet American's do not, and yet Americans have some of the highest death rates per year [a statistic which you should not be "proud" of])? Or is it just ignorance on the American part?

"Better late than never," a philosophy that should be adhered to in this case.

Also, don't give me that crap about people having the "ability" to "create" "explosives" and "even more deadlier weapons" from common household material. People always will, just as they do in other Western nations. Result? Still a significant decrease in the amount of dead per year.

From: Daniel
Or is it just ignorance on the American part?

This is so true

Looking around for murder rates - creepy eh?

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/335848/gun-control-ignorance-thomas-sowell#


Regardless I still maintain its a people issue - maybe guns do need to be better regulated, but that won't stop people from killing other people

[YOUTUBE]htlsOf3PnGY[/YOUTUBE]
Reminds me of this amazing film. This film depicts the thoughts of the shooter perfectly. I genuinely urge people to watch it. It's a pure genius piece of film work. And could possibly Open peoples eyes on the scenario

From: xtrapsp

Reminds me of this amazing film. This film depicts the thoughts of the shooter perfectly. I genuinely urge people to watch it. It's a pure genius piece of film work. And could possibly Open peoples eyes on the scenario

Seeing this was too shocking to put into words. I'm not even sure if it's right…making a movie as graphic as this about something so horrible that actually happened.

From: Runehack123
Seeing this was too shocking to put into words. I'm not even sure if it's right…making a movie as graphic as this about something so horrible that actually happened.

Pretty much any film not involving CGI (and crazy monster models?) has happened sometime throughout history :/

From: DannyRS
Pretty much any film not involving CGI (and crazy monster models?) has happened sometime throughout history :/

I don't know of any movies showing Jews dying in gas chambers, the Nanjing massacre and many more… there's a moral line that was crossed here.

This is a realistic film. It hasn't got crap effects. It's not following Hollywood style. It's shoot following lots of different characters stories.. you see the end before it happens but its not the most shocking bit.

The most shocking bit is seeing everyone after it happens…

What I'm trying to get at is that the film "Elephant" isn't based on any specific shooting but it is a comment on the way these people think. They're humans too… try watching it, the whole film is on YT

Not sure if it's related but this is a damn good film, if you understand French then more for you if not subtitles

La Haine - Maddest film ever made

From: Mr[S]
Not sure if it's related but this is a damn good film, if you understand French then more for you if not subtitles

La Haine - Maddest film ever made

Un chien Andalou - Maddest film ever made. ;)

But back ontopic:

:P

I think that America's way of doing things, coupled with the current gun laws fuels the excessive amount of gun-related deaths in this country. It is not the guns themselves, which has been said time and time again, but the troubled individuals who find themselves in situations with these guns. Our country is fucked beyond belief with respect to the distribution of wealth, and it is pretty much awful education-wise. What happens when people who are lacking in education, money, and a generally happy life have access to their mother's gun? Maybe not everyone will snap and kill a bunch of kids, but not everyone has the mental stability to overpower their emotions. Statistically, bad things will happen with this equation.

This is why I think that there must be a combination of gun control, in addition to tackling the underlying causes of why people would want to commit mass/murder-suicide. Again, I strongly feel that it is linked to education, home-life, and financial stability. When these things go awry, not everyone has the mental capability to deal with it in a healthy way. I think it is analogous to evolution, where we are in some way selecting for these horrible events due to the way our society functions. It is much more complex an issue than most are willing to admit, and as a result we get into this LETS BAN GUNS DEBATE. We do this as if this was the only option.

@FootballJds:
"I gave up on this country, completely. I have no "pride" for my country."

I feel ya man.

From: Runehack123
It's very difficult to get weapons from the black market. Yes, it is as simple as banning guns. Look at any other country - the death toll from guns is way lower than in the USA…

On top of that, if you have seen the movie 'Bowling for Columbine' you will know that Canadians own even more weapons per household than Americans. Yet, there are no incidences of gun killing sprees.
A Canadian schoolboy interviewed commented that 'maybe Americans are just too stupid to carry guns'. What other explanation is there? There must be something wrong with American society if there are no similar incidents in bordering Canada, where even more guns are owned by people.

There are some very sophisticated, respectful American citizens, but there are also a lot of Americans who go around shooting innocents. In no other country in the world has this been the case!
I say ban the usage of guns in the USA is the only solution. Why do you need guns? Again, America is NOT a warzone and NOT a hunting ground. This is a place where normal people wish to live normal lives.

Finally, how can you even say that banning guns won't stop these issues in the USA? No attempt has even been made. Countries who have bans on weapons do not see things like this happening.
America, it's time for action. Let's hope this is the moment when things finally start to change for the sake of keeping future generations safe from these horrors!

Stopped reading after you referenced Bowling For Columbine…:wacko:

From: Echo_
Well clearly guns aren't the issue considering the knife attack in China. These people go on killing sprees because they are depressed, insane, and have no hope for the future. To me, the blame for these incidents falls on society and how we treat these sort of people.

This. We sit there and talk about how they deserve to be tortured but when you think about it, most of these kids were tortured throughout their whole life (whether it be mentally or physically). We are the reason these things happen and we need to change it.

Edit: Sorry for double post :/

From: gerauchert
I think that America's way of doing things, coupled with the current gun laws fuels the excessive amount of gun-related deaths in this country. It is not the guns themselves, which has been said time and time again, but the troubled individuals who find themselves in situations with these guns. Our country is fucked beyond belief with respect to the distribution of wealth, and it is pretty much awful education-wise. What happens when people who are lacking in education, money, and a generally happy life have access to their mother's gun? Maybe not everyone will snap and kill a bunch of kids, but not everyone has the mental stability to overpower their emotions. Statistically, bad things will happen with this equation.

This is why I think that there must be a combination of gun control, in addition to tackling the underlying causes of why people would want to commit mass/murder-suicide. Again, I strongly feel that it is linked to education, home-life, and financial stability. When these things go awry, not everyone has the mental capability to deal with it in a healthy way. I think it is analogous to evolution, where we are in some way selecting for these horrible events due to the way our society functions. It is much more complex an issue than most are willing to admit, and as a result we get into this LETS BAN GUNS DEBATE. We do this as if this was the only option.

@FootballJds:
"I gave up on this country, completely. I have no "pride" for my country."

I feel ya man.

For the most part I'm anti-gun-control, but this is a post I can absolutely agree with. There are way too many people here who aren't fit to own guns. We shouldn't all have limited rights becuase a few are irrisponsible, but I can agree that something needs to be done. Agree with the economics and education parts as well, finding a solution to that would help more than any amount of gun control. More to come later, I'm typing this from my phone.

From: gerauchert
I think that America's way of doing things, coupled with the current gun laws fuels the excessive amount of gun-related deaths in this country. It is not the guns themselves, which has been said time and time again, but the troubled individuals who find themselves in situations with these guns. Our country is fucked beyond belief with respect to the distribution of wealth, and it is pretty much awful education-wise. What happens when people who are lacking in education, money, and a generally happy life have access to their mother's gun? Maybe not everyone will snap and kill a bunch of kids, but not everyone has the mental stability to overpower their emotions. Statistically, bad things will happen with this equation.

This is why I think that there must be a combination of gun control, in addition to tackling the underlying causes of why people would want to commit mass/murder-suicide. Again, I strongly feel that it is linked to education, home-life, and financial stability. When these things go awry, not everyone has the mental capability to deal with it in a healthy way. I think it is analogous to evolution, where we are in some way selecting for these horrible events due to the way our society functions. It is much more complex an issue than most are willing to admit, and as a result we get into this LETS BAN GUNS DEBATE. We do this as if this was the only option.

@FootballJds:
"I gave up on this country, completely. I have no "pride" for my country."

I feel ya man.

Good post…this isn't a problem that has a single solution. I do differ in opinion from you though, I believe it is our right to own guns (I am Canadian but I think this should apply to everyone).

Does anyone else feel like this is just another bandwagon to jump on? First (well, recently) it was bullying (legislating the crap out of that) now gun control…it feels almost…directed. These are some of my thoughts…

My suggestion: Homeschooling ftw!! (serious :) )

The reason for shootings not being stopped is denial. Read this: http://www.policeone.com/active-shooter/articles/2058168-Lt-Col-Dave-Grossman-to-cops-The-enemy-is-denial/

“How many kids have been killed by school fire in all of North America in the past 50 years? Kids killed… school fire… North America… 50 years… How many? Zero. That’s right. Not one single kid has been killed by school fire anywhere in North America in the past half a century. Now, how many kids have been killed by school violence?”

So began an extraordinary daylong seminar presented by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman, a Pulitzer Prize nominated author, West Point psychology professor, and without a doubt the world’s foremost expert on human aggression and violence. The event, hosted by the California Peace Officers Association, was held in the auditorium of a very large community church about 30 miles from San Francisco, and was attended by more than 250 police officers from around the region.

Grossman’s talk spanned myriad topics of vital importance to law enforcement, such as the use of autogenic breathing, surviving gunshot wounds, dealing with survivor guilt following a gun battle, and others. But violence among and against children was how the day began, and so I'll focus on that issue here.

Helping schools prepare for an active-shooter showdown
Sheriff Fred Wegener says that preparing schools for an active shooter is community policing at its best.
“In 1998,” Grossman said, “school violence claimed what at the time was an all time record number of kids’ lives. In that year there were 35 dead and a quarter of a million serious injuries due to violence in the school. How many killed by fire that year? Zero. But we hear people say, ‘That’s the year Columbine happened, that’s an anomaly.’ Well, in 2004 we had a new all time record — 48 dead in the schools from violence. How many killed by fire that year? Zero. Let’s assign some grades. Put your teacher hat on and give out some grades. What kind of grade do you give the firefighter for keeping kids safe? An ‘A,’ right? Reluctantly, reluctantly, the cops give the firefighters an ‘A,’ right? Danged firefighters, they sleep ‘till they’re hungry and eat ‘till they’re tired. What grade do we get for keeping the kids safe from violence? Come on, what’s our grade? Needs improvement, right?”

Johnny Firefighter, A+ Student
“Why can’t we be like little Johnny Firefighter?” Grossman asked as he prowled the stage. “He’s our A+ student!”

He paused, briefly, and answered with a voice that blew through the hall like thunder, “Denial, denial, denial!”

Grossman commanded, “Look up at the ceiling! See all those sprinklers up there? They’re hard to spot — they’re painted black — but they’re there. While you’re looking, look at the material the ceiling is made of. You know that that stuff was selected because it’s fire-retardant. Hooah? Now look over there above the door — you see that fire exit sign? That’s not just any fire exit sign — that’s a ‘battery-backup-when-the-world-ends-it-will-still-be-lit’ fire exit sign. Hooah?”

Walking from the stage toward a nearby fire exit and exterior wall, Grossman slammed the palm of his hand against the wall and exclaimed, “Look at these wall boards! They were chosen because they’re what?! Fireproof or fire retardant, hooah? There is not one stinking thing in this room that will burn!”

Pointing around the room as he spoke, Grossman continued, “But you’ve still got those fire sprinklers, those fire exit signs, fire hydrants outside, and fire trucks nearby! Are these fire guys crazy? Are these fire guys paranoid? No! This fire guy is our A+ student! Because this fire guy has redundant, overlapping layers of protection, not a single kid has been killed by school fire in the last 50 years!

“But you try to prepare for violence — the thing much more likely to kill our kids in schools, the thing hundreds of times more likely to kill our kids in schools — and people think you’re paranoid. They think you’re crazy. …They’re in denial.”

Teaching the Teachers
The challenge for law enforcement agencies and officers, then, is to overcome not only the attacks taking place in schools, but to first overcome the denial in the minds of mayors, city councils, school administrators, and parents. Grossman said that agencies and officers, although facing an uphill slog against the denial of the general public, must diligently work toward increasing understanding among the sheep that the wolves are coming for their children. Police officers must train and drill with teachers, not only so responding officers are intimately familiar with the facilities, but so that teachers know what they can do in the event of an attack.

“Come with me to the library at Columbine High School,” Grossman said. “The teacher in the library at Columbine High School spent her professional lifetime preparing for a fire, and we can all agree if there had been a fire in that library, that teacher would have instinctively, reflexively known what to do.

"But the thing most likely to kill her kids — the thing hundreds of times more likely to kill her kids, the teacher didn’t have a clue what to do. She should have put those kids in the librarian’s office but she didn’t know that. So she did the worst thing possible — she tried to secure her kids in an un-securable location. She told the kids to hide in the library — a library that has plate glass windows for walls. It’s an aquarium, it’s a fish bowl. She told the kids to hide in a fishbowl. What did those killers see? They saw targets. They saw fish in a fish bowl.”

Grossman said that if the school administrators at Columbine had spent a fraction of the money they’d spent preparing for fire doing lockdown drills and talking with local law enforcers about the violent dangers they face, the outcome that day may have been different.

Rhetorically he asked the assembled cops, “If somebody had spent five minutes telling that teacher what to do, do you think lives would have been saved at Columbine?”

Arming Campus Cops is Elementary
Nearly two years ago, I wrote an article called Arming campus cops is elementary. Not surprisingly, Grossman agrees with that hypothesis.

“Never call an unarmed man ‘security’,” Grossman said.

“Call him ‘run-like-hell-when-the-man-with-the-gun-shows-up’ but never call an unarmed man security.

"Imagine if someone said, ‘I want a trained fire professional on site. I want a fire hat, I want a fire uniform, I want a fire badge. But! No fire extinguishers in this building. No fire hoses. The hat, the badge, the uniform — that will keep us safe — but we have no need for fire extinguishers.’ Well, that would be insane. It is equally insane, delusional, legally liable, to say, ‘I want a trained security professional on site. I want a security hat, I want a security uniform, and I want a security badge, but I don’t want a gun.’ It’s not the hat, the uniform, or the badge. It’s the tools in the hands of a trained professional that keeps us safe.

“Our problem is not money,” said Grossman. “It is denial.”

Grossman said (and most cops agree) that many of the most important things we can do to protect our kids would cost us nothing or next-to-nothing.

Grossman’s Five D’s
Let’s contemplate the following outline and summary of Dave Grossman’s “Five D’s.” While you do, I encourage you to add in the comments area below your suggestions to address, and expand upon, these ideas.

1. Denial — Denial is the enemy and it has no survival value, said Grossman.

2. Deter — Put police officers in schools, because with just one officer assigned to a school, the probability of a mass murder in that school drops to almost zero

3. Detect — We’re talking about plain old fashioned police work here. The ultimate achievement for law enforcement is the crime that didn’t happen, so giving teachers and administrators regular access to cops is paramount.

4. Delay — Various simple mechanisms can be used by teachers and cops to put time and distance between the killers and the kids.

a. Ensure that the school/classroom have just a single point of entry. Simply locking the back door helps create a hard target.
b. Conduct your active shooter drills within (and in partnership with) the schools in your city so teachers know how to respond, and know what it looks like when you do your response.

5. Destroy — Police officers and agencies should consider the following:

a. Carry off duty. No one would tell a firefighter who has a fire extinguisher in his trunk that he’s crazy or paranoid.
b. Equip every cop in America with a patrol rifle. One chief of police, upon getting rifles for all his officers once said, “If an active killer strikes in my town, the response time will be measured in feet per second.”
c. Put smoke grenades in the trunk of every cop car in America. Any infantryman who needs to attack across open terrain or perform a rescue under fire deploys a smoke grenade. A fire extinguisher will do a decent job in some cases, but a smoke grenade is designed to perform the function.
d. Have a “go-to-war bag” filled with lots of loaded magazines and supplies for tactical combat casualty care.
e. Use helicopters. Somewhere in your county you probably have one or more of the following: medevac, media, private, national guard, coast guard rotors.
f. Employ the crew-served, continuous-feed, weapon you already have available to you (a firehouse) by integrating the fire service into your active shooter training. It is virtually impossible for a killer to put well-placed shots on target while also being blasted with water at 300 pounds per square inch.
g. Armed citizens can help. Think United 93. Whatever your personal take on gun control, it is all but certain that a killer set on killing is more likely to attack a target where the citizens are unarmed, rather than one where they are likely to encounter an armed citizen response.

Coming Soon: External Threats
Today we must not only prepare for juvenile mass murder, something that had never happened in human history until only recently, but we also must prepare for the external threat. Islamist fanatics have slaughtered children in their own religion — they have killed wantonly, mercilessly, and without regard for repercussion or regret of any kind. What do you think they’d think of killing our kids?

“Eight years ago they came and killed 3,000 of our citizens. Do we know what they’re going to do next? No! But one thing they’ve done in every country they’ve messed with is killing kids in schools,” Grossman said.

The latest al Qaeda charter states that “children are noble targets” and Osama bin Laden himself has said that “Russia is a preview for what we will do to America.”

What happened in Russia that we need to be concerned with in this context? In the town of Beslan on September 1, 2004 — the very day on which children across that country merrily make their return to school after the long summer break — radical Islamist terrorists from Chechnya took more than 1,000 teachers, mothers, and children hostage. When the three-day siege was over, more than 300 hostages had been killed, more than half of whom were children.

“If I could tackle every American and make them read one book to help them understand the terrorist’s plan, it would be Terror at Beslan by John Giduck. Beslan was just a dress rehearsal for what they’re planning to do to the United States,” he said.

Consider this: There are almost a half a million school buses in America. It would require every enlisted person and every officer in the entire Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine Corps combined to put just one armed guard on every school bus in the country.

As a country and as a culture, the level of protection Americans afford our kids against violence is nothing near what we do to protect them from fire. Grossman is correct: Denial is the enemy. We must prepare for violence like the firefighter prepares for fire. And we must do that today.

Hooah, Colonel!

We should make very strict vehicle laws also. Nobody can drive a vehicle in the USA because it's the cars that are killing people in wrecks, not the people behind the wheel of the car…. If you think stricter gun laws will prevent things like this Connecticut shooting, you're very ignorant.

However cheesy and overused this saying is, it's 100% true… Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

From: Mjordan
We should make very strict vehicle laws also. Nobody can drive a vehicle in the USA because it's the cars that are killing people in wrecks, not the people behind the wheel of the car…. If you think stricter gun laws will prevent things like this Connecticut shooting, you're very ignorant.

However cheesy and overused this saying is, it's 100% true… Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

I'd be in favor of banning cars if their only purpose was to kill. Cars are used for transportation. Guns are used for killing. Not the same at all.

If a pencil was used to stab someone in the neck and was then on the news, who here would support banning pencils in schools?

If there was no gun, he would have killed people anyway, stop blaming the gun and blame the person

From: DannyRS
If a pencil was used to stab someone in the neck and was then on the news, who here would support banning pencils in schools?

If there was no gun, he would have killed people anyway, stop blaming the gun and blame the person

It is far easier and faster to kill a room full of kids with a gun than with a pencil. Sure, with a pencil he could have killed one if he was lucky, but guess what? He had two pistols and a rifle, and killed 28.

Note: I'm not saying he isn't at fault, I'm just saying less kids would have died if he hadn't had guns.

Ok, spose like ashaman mentioned, he used chemcals from any chemist to make a bomb, and killed more than 50 people, do we blame the chemicals?

Guns made it easier, but if his actual intent was to kill, plenty of better methods he could have used, already mentioned, drive a car through the wall into the assembly, bet that does more damage than a gun could ever do, your saying thats not the cars fault simply because the car is normally "transportation"

Guns are a good tool, and should not be banned in any country imo

From: BMWxi
It is far easier and faster to kill a room full of kids with a gun than with a pencil. Sure, with a pencil he could have killed one if he was lucky, but guess what? He had two pistols and a rifle, and killed 28.

Note: I'm not saying he isn't at fault, I'm just saying less kids would have died if he hadn't had guns.

If someone really wants to kill a room full of kids they will.. if he would not have gotten them from his mom he would have gotten them elseware.

From: DannyRS
Guns are a good tool, and should not be banned in any country imo

Voice of Mr Makay *Mmmmmm guns are bad* :cartman:

From: Mr[S]
Voice of Mr Makay *Mmmmmm guns are bad* :cartman:

You forgot the Mkay at the end,

Guns are not bad, people are bad

I think psychiatric help is the issue, it seems to me that all of these lunatics who harm innocent people all have one thing in common, and that is the failure of those around them to recognize (or act on) the signs of mental illness. With all the stuff going on in the world today it is becoming increasingly important to monitor your loved ones to make sure that everything is going as it should. Obviously, some things will be missed, which is tragic, but the majority of these situations could have been avoided had someone stepped up and done something. Now, I get that many people don't believe mental instability causes these horrific events, but what right-minded individual would willingly murder children. There is no justifying lack of innocence in Kindergarten age children. We need to focus less on controlling weapons and more on the people who would use them.

From: DannyRS
Ok, spose like ashaman mentioned, he used chemcals from any chemist to make a bomb, and killed more than 50 people, do we blame the chemicals?

Guns made it easier, but if his actual intent was to kill, plenty of better methods he could have used, already mentioned, drive a car through the wall into the assembly, bet that does more damage than a gun could ever do, your saying thats not the cars fault simply because the car is normally "transportation"

Guns are a good tool, and should not be banned in any country imo

These substances and the methods to create such a bomb are often highly controlled and difficult to acquire all of.

Car's actual purpose is for transportation. The only purpose for a gun that does not directly harm a person/animal is the use of them at a rifle range. If you guys want to use them for recreation, go to a rifle range. Keep them out of your homes and off the streets.

Writing this after watching another episode of 'Doomsday Preppers' <3 on the NatGeo channel…
As usual, all households had semi-automatic shotguns, AK47s, 1000s of live rounds and whatnot being stored in their wardrobes. Hey, I even got to see a Samurai sword this time! :)
Ah well, guess you just need to be prepared for the thousands of neighbours you'll need to plough down once they come looting for food when the world finally ends!
So what better way to mow down an angry mob than with a big-ass gun that comes with a FREE magazine at the online store? ;)

From: Runehack123
Writing this after watching another episode of 'Doomsday Preppers' <3 on the NatGeo channel…
As usual, all households had semi-automatic shotguns, AK47s, 1000s of live rounds and whatnot being stored in their wardrobes. Hey, I even got to see a Samurai sword this time! :)
Ah well, guess you just need to be prepared for the thousands of neighbours you'll need to plough down once they come looting for food when the world finally ends!
So what better way to mow down an angry mob than with a big-ass gun that comes with a FREE magazine at the online store? ;)

Tbh in a doomsday event, people would go mad, and if you wouldent welcome an automatic weapon in this situation, your seriously in denial

From: DannyRS
Tbh in a doomsday event, people would go mad, and if you wouldent welcome an automatic weapon in this situation, your seriously in denial

Yeah, how else would you fight the earthquakes/floods/drought/famine? :p

From: BMWxi
Yeah, how else would you fight the earthquakes/floods/drought/famine? :p

More worried about the,
Homeless Starving Earthquake Victim Crazies trying to hurt me or my family ;)

But maybe thats just me having absolutely 0 faith in society anymore

From: BMWxi
Yeah, how else would you fight the earthquakes/floods/drought/famine? :p

earthquake —–> un prepared people come to your shelter begging for food. They will steal it. Either it's your family that lives or theirs.

&#8220;Guns don't kill people rabbits do I saw it on a documentary on BBC2&#8220;
No but seriously either way guns are designed to kill which to me is not a good mojo.

But used at the right time and with good intentions has long proved its power of enforcement which only meens to me that stricter regulations should be enforced as to who can own one.

also as all firearms are not as easy to purchase in the uk I don't know of any of the current regulations to how much ammunition can one purchase should they think about that like having to return emptyshells before you can purchase more because I can't see a reason why one would need more than a full clip to defend your self family and home from a burglar/SmackHead.s

From: Mr[S]
I actually do hope Obama outlaws guns shame it took so many massacres and little children to die for it maybe to happen

It's funny how that actually works against him, because by proposing more gun control the demand for guns and ammunition has skyrocketed. Now people are hording ammunition, and no doubt some of these people are mentally unstable.

With the government getting as big as it is and racking up all this debt, I'm glad my family has guns. You know, just in case the shit hits the fan in the near future ;)

These substances and the methods to create such a bomb are often highly controlled and difficult to acquire all of.

If by "highly controlled" and "difficult to acquire" you mean "I can drive 10 miles to a farming supply store and buy them in bulk" then yes, I agree with you, they are "difficult to acquire".

Car's actual purpose is for transportation. The only purpose for a gun that does not directly harm a person/animal is the use of them at a rifle range. If you guys want to use them for recreation, go to a rifle range. Keep them out of your homes and off the streets.

There are a plethora of different reasons to use guns, you make it sound as if entertainment and murdering people is the only reason one should own a gun. What about self-defence, hunting, and protection from the government (which is the primary reason the founding fathers had for owning guns, to protect themselves from tyranical governments.)

By your same argument you should outlaw peper spray, because it's only purpose is to harm people.

What part of self-defence, hunting and protection from the gorvernment does not directly harm and animal/person?

Granted pepper spray harms people. But please send me a link where 28 people died from a mentally ill person using pepper spray and then I will believe it should be banned.

ok i agree when you say that this guy could have killed without guns, but not as easy. Also how about organized crime and theives. It will be harder to make a succesfull rob without this guns.

They are thousands of reasons to use guns (self defence. hunting, killing etc) but they are still thousand more to not use them, the suffering of this poeple, of this kids and of their families is a fact its not a debate.

If you can stop suferring would you do it? it doesnt matter if you wont stop it completely but if you can stop a bit of it will you do it?

From: eduardo230
ok i agree when you say that this guy could have killed without guns, but not as easy. Also how about organized crime and theives. It will be harder to make a succesfull rob without this guns.

They are thousands of reasons to use guns (self defence. hunting, killing etc) but they are still thousand more to not use them, the suffering of this poeple, of this kids and of their families is a fact its not a debate.

If you can stop suferring would you do it? it doesnt matter if you wont stop it completely but if you can stop a bit of it will you do it?

Your dumb.. the point was been made that they will get guns for the robbery illegaly anyway.

If a janitor walked into a school lunchroom and mixed 2 common household cleaning chemicals and made nerve gas, and killed 500 kids people would be on about banning them.

From: rjj95
Your dumb.. the point was been made that they will get guns for the robbery illegaly anyway.

If a janitor walked into a school lunchroom and mixed 2 common household cleaning chemicals and made nerve gas, and killed 500 kids people would be on about banning them.

Why exactly the janitor? I don't get it…Oh wait. He has access to all the household cleaning chemicals. Also, janitors are said to be one of the most evil groups of people that walk amongst us! :spongebob:

From: rjj95
Your dumb.. the point was been made that they will get guns for the robbery illegaly anyway.

If a janitor walked into a school lunchroom and mixed 2 common household cleaning chemicals and made nerve gas, and killed 500 kids people would be on about banning them.

well is not the same, for a job with children you need to have some requisites.
Im stating that if someone wants to kill they will kill but guns, especial high caliber , are making this a hell lot easier.

If people can kill with guns control the guns they are a lot of alternatives, if people can kill with House cleaners welll control the house cleaner, they are a lot of alternatives to clean a school, to protect a house.

A messed up society + guns (or any other "mas destruction" weapon) = death.

Dont try to justify weapons with more weapons….
2 masacres in one year isnt sufficient?

From: Runehack123
I understand that internet anonymity must feel empowering, but flaming in a thread about children dying just because you disagree with something that was said is immature and inconsiderate.
As for the nature of my replies - I believe they were all in the official forum language so don't blame me for not giving a 'coherent response'.
It's clear to me that you are frustrated, but this has nothing to do with this thread and should be taken out somewhere outside of your parent's house, an internet forum or an online game e.g. a martial art's class or the gym. It's just not healthy to deal with personal issues this way and treat online forums/games as a way of stress-relief. :)

You must be quite new to the internet. Condescending tones are so overused- often by simpletons whose only contributions to an argument/debate topic is launching a personal attacks on someone. Maybe a moderator should also remove your replies for not staying on topic.

Yes. Internet anonymity is very powerful, is that why you too also choose to camp this thread posting mindless boggle?

From: eduardo230
well is not the same, for a job with children you need to have some requisites.
Im stating that if someone wants to kill they will kill but guns, especial high caliber , are making this a hell lot easier.

If people can kill with guns control the guns they are a lot of alternatives, if people can kill with House cleaners welll control the house cleaner, they are a lot of alternatives to clean a school, to protect a house.

A messed up society + guns (or any other "mas destruction" weapon) = death.

Dont try to justify weapons with more weapons….
2 masacres in one year isnt sufficient?

Are you kidding?Have you EVER seen a school janiter!? So i guess we should get rid of our nukes too right?