SRL Archive - Discussions and Debates

I've been thinking about mato's DirectX interception can be seen here villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83051

and as its nearing completion I'm wondering about how many leachers will come flooding in so could this be something we can offer to our junior members as what I've notice is that bots like ogl and reflection hit the game hard.

Would love to hear all your views.

I can see it being a good and a bad thing to be honest

It gives me a deja vu feeling, much like reflection.

If u want to keep something private keep it in members. No point giving it to the JMs, there's so many of them and most still are leechers, after all, they've been around SRL for at least 3 months and still haven't applied for members successfully.

~RM

In my own opinion it should be provided to the Members+. You must remember though, this is Mato's project, he has the final say and whatever he chooses to go with we should respect the choice.

Just let it happen? It's not up to us to dictate what the creator and those who use his/her creation can and can't do in terms of scripting and/or learning.

Mato isn't a member for whatever reason :S. I don't see this going members anytime soon. Currently it's open source so any other bot sites would have gotten their hands on it from the start anyway.

silentwolf was promoted for a very similar project himself ;)

From: Sir R. M8gic1an
If u want to keep something private keep it in members. No point giving it to the JMs, there's so many of them and most still are leechers, after all, they've been around SRL for at least 3 months and still haven't applied for members successfully.

~RM

Hmmm, this is true.

However I still feel there needs to be a forum in-between Members and Public, not necessarily Jr.Members, unless the requirements for are changed a bit, focusing more on post count maybe…

From: abu_jwka
Hmmm, this is true.

However I still feel there needs to be a forum in-between Members and Public, not necessarily Jr.Members, unless the requirements for are changed a bit, focusing more on post count maybe…

Spam?

From: Daniel
Spam?

If the post counts high enough, you can hope they stop spamming? :redface:


EDIT: Or make the requirements a secret… or maybe even promote individuals depending on Activity and promise?

From: abu_jwka
If the post counts high enough, you can hope they stop spamming? :redface:


EDIT: Or make the requirements a secret… or maybe even promote individuals depending on Activity and promise?

We already do this.

I think the reason why so many people are in love with the junior member rank is because it "in theory" weeds out some leechers and allows us to give perks to contributing non members. What actually happens is the staff gets to deal with more spammers, and members give out their goodies to absolutely regular people who happened to make ten posts that didn't totally sound like spam. And ever since, we've had this junior member mith.

~RM

From: Sir R. M8gic1an
We already do this.

I think the reason why so many people are in love with the junior member rank is because it "in theory" weeds out some leechers and allows us to give perks to contributing non members. What actually happens is the staff gets to deal with more spammers, and members give out their goodies to absolutely regular people who happened to make ten posts that didn't totally sound like spam. And ever since, we've had this junior member mith.

~RM

Well then maybe what we need to do is completely remove the 'auto promotion' and system and leave it to voting only?

From: abu_jwka
Well then maybe what we need to do is completely remove the 'auto promotion' and system and leave it to voting only?

i agree to this will tightin things up abit

At the moment, the JM rank still exists because of the black market….

So, it is needed there. In a way. We could make a rank just for the BM, which we already do have, but then again it'd come down to the same exact thing.

~RM

The problem we always ran into with reflection was that nobody would maintain it. The include would get started then that person would lose interest and it would fall back down until somebody picked it back up. It seems the problem with DirectX might be two-fold though, first there's one guy maintaining it and secondly, it seems, unlike reflection, that not too many people really understand the whole hooking process. So if Mato drops out then we won't have anyone to pick it back up if it breaks.

From: Bobarkinator
The problem we always ran into with reflection was that nobody would maintain it. The include would get started then that person would lose interest and it would fall back down until somebody picked it back up. It seems the problem with DirectX might be two-fold though, first there's one guy maintaining it and secondly, it seems, unlike reflection, that not too many people really understand the whole hooking process. So if Mato drops out then we won't have anyone to pick it back up if it breaks.

I wasn't really around at the time when reflection was popular so I have to ask. When it was being developed at first was it one person or a group who made it? It seems to me once stuff like this gains some ground, and becomes at least a little stable, other people pick up interest and help develop it. We have some extremely bright people here, I'm sure at least a few would figure it out.

Back on to where this should be released, if we try to tell mato where it should be released he may leave and release it elsewhere. Right now he has good support here and I think that's what is keeping him around. Given how non-proven the method is I think leaving it open to the general public to at least get feedback isn't a bad idea right now.

We could ask him, we don't need to tell him where he must release it.. after all it is his.

From: Silent SPY
I wasn't really around at the time when reflection was popular so I have to ask. When it was being developed at first was it one person or a group who made it? It seems to me once stuff like this gains some ground, and becomes at least a little stable, other people pick up interest and help develop it. We have some extremely bright people here, I'm sure at least a few would figure it out.

A group. Heck, I still have the reflection dev cup, and so do a few other people I believe. The first attempt at reflection with SCAR with the KYAB was pretty successful for a while, but then it turned south because solarwind didn't really have the knowledge to keep building it seeing as how the base of it was pretty much built by BenLand, solarwind just had the idea. After that Ben just baked reflection methods into SMART and that's when a group of guys got together to work on a reflection include, which again was moderately successful for awhile, I think that's around the time that I left for a while so I can't be completely clear on the details, but I think that didn't last a long time before Jagex drastically changed the client and the whole include needed to be rewritten, one of the times a came back Drags111, now known as Draken I believe, was working on it, but then he quit again. Anybody who knows more can feel free to correct me on any of that. But yeah, so basically we have a history of these projects failing unfortunately. This one has come pretty far though, and I'd love to see it come to fruition. I'm just worried about only having one guy working on it.

From: R4nd0m
We could ask him, we don't need to tell him where he must release it.. after all it is his.

i agree its his choice where to release his work anywhere he wishes but i meant it's our choice as members to think where the scripts we ourselves produce from it go to Members/juniors or the public

From: Bobarkinator
A group. Heck, I still have the reflection dev cup, and so do a few other people I believe. The first attempt at reflection with SCAR with the KYAB was pretty successful for a while, but then it turned south because solarwind didn't really have the knowledge to keep building it seeing as how the base of it was pretty much built by BenLand, solarwind just had the idea. After that Ben just baked reflection methods into SMART and that's when a group of guys got together to work on a reflection include, which again was moderately successful for awhile, I think that's around the time that I left for a while so I can't be completely clear on the details, but I think that didn't last a long time before Jagex drastically changed the client and the whole include needed to be rewritten, one of the times a came back Drags111, now known as Draken I believe, was working on it, but then he quit again. Anybody who knows more can feel free to correct me on any of that. But yeah, so basically we have a history of these projects failing unfortunately. This one has come pretty far though, and I'd love to see it come to fruition. I'm just worried about only having one guy working on it.

What about Aryan? I guess even a few people worked on that project as well. Who was it that first brought reflection to the community? Regex? or was it around even before he made it very available?

DX and OGL go beyond reflection tho? there used for other things aside from Runescape, its only right to assume that more people would have knowledge into them? also it gives people another reason to learn them through Runescape botting. After all this is a educational forum.

His project is very intriguing to me. I am very interested to have a look at it if/when he releases it.

From: Bobarkinator
The problem we always ran into with reflection was that nobody would maintain it. The include would get started then that person would lose interest and it would fall back down until somebody picked it back up. It seems the problem with DirectX might be two-fold though, first there's one guy maintaining it and secondly, it seems, unlike reflection, that not too many people really understand the whole hooking process. So if Mato drops out then we won't have anyone to pick it back up if it breaks.

Why don't we ask him to have a git? That way we can push and pull various items and look at what he does, at least this way if he does leave we have a base to work from. I'm pretty sure he's more than happy to allow this

From: Bam Bam
What about Aryan? I guess even a few people worked on that project as well. Who was it that first brought reflection to the community? Regex? or was it around even before he made it very available?

Aryan wasn't exactly reflection, it was closer to injection, but even a little different from that. Bear in mind, I wasn't around for Aryan so this is only what I've picked up, but I believe Aryan actually decompiled the client (before they started obfuscating the code) and modified stuff then recompiled the client with their modified code.

I'm not really sure who "brought" reflection to the community. The guys over at Mopar have been hooking the client for what seems like forever.

From: xtrapsp
Why don't we ask him to have a git? That way we can push and pull various items and look at what he does, at least this way if he does leave we have a base to work from. I'm pretty sure he's more than happy to allow this

He said he was willing to set up Git, he just didn't know how. So someone needs to get with him to help him figure it out.

I think the Junior member system how it used to be was a joke, my first 10 posts I'm sure are all crap. In fact I didn't even make most of them.. To require X posts to download is like "hey, spam random stuff in threads so you can download and get out of here"

I came back for some reason.. and stayed.. who knows why? I definitely have no idea why, but I have a good time.

Anyway I don't think it really matters… I think it could be useful in a few ways and it might be a good way for some people to start scripting if they're scared of color.

The problem with directX is also that it isn't opensource. OpenGL is opensource and cross platform. It is imo even easier to hook.

From: masterBB
The problem with directX is also that it isn't opensource. OpenGL is opensource and cross platform. It is imo even easier to hook.

I agree we should be hooking OpenGL. But mostly just because I'm a Mac user. In general, however, these forums have several people in the Linux realm where DirectX wouldn't work either.

From: Bobarkinator
I agree we should be hooking OpenGL. But mostly just because I'm a Mac user. In general, however, these forums have several people in the Linux realm where DirectX wouldn't work either.

The problem with OpenGL hooking as it has been done so far is that people have just built on the knowledge provided by GLIntercept and Aimbots, which tend to be Windows specific afaik.

It can be built from ground up for Mac/Linux but it is a pretty serious amount of work, with almost no documentation, and requires quite a bit of assembly knowledge as you are working directly with runtime memory addresses.

TBH, I don't see this being cross platform.

From: Bobarkinator
I agree we should be hooking OpenGL. But mostly just because I'm a Mac user. In general, however, these forums have several people in the Linux realm where DirectX wouldn't work either.

I can't find a tool for openGl intercepting with mac I am afraid.

From: masterBB
I can't find a tool for openGl intercepting with mac I am afraid.

Xcode, the development tools for OS X, comes with an OpenGL viewer and profiler that you can attach to a process to view OpenGL calls. So it's possible, but there aren't many guides for how to do it on OS X as already stated.

From: ReadySteadyGo
The problem with OpenGL hooking as it has been done so far is that people have just built on the knowledge provided by GLIntercept and Aimbots, which tend to be Windows specific afaik.

It can be built from ground up for Mac/Linux but it is a pretty serious amount of work, with almost no documentation, and requires quite a bit of assembly knowledge as you are working directly with runtime memory addresses.

TBH, I don't see this being cross platform.

This isn't true.. GLIntercept is barely ever used if used at all anymore. It's just used for the calls but the OpenGL RS uses now is custom built.. They include the Corona Library within it. Also GLIntercept gives some calls that RS doesn't use anymore :S Might be outdated a bit which is why SimbaGL doesn't work right now. Calls such as the ARB ones don't exist anymore and will Crash RS.

No ASM needed unless you actually hook with addresses. Who does that anymore :S I used to do that. Just learn Detours and it's maybe iunno max 6 lines a hook..

Mato has posted the source for DX more than once. Might not be up to date atm but meh I'm sure when he's done he'll post it.

From: Bobarkinator
Aryan wasn't exactly reflection, it was closer to injection, but even a little different from that. Bear in mind, I wasn't around for Aryan so this is only what I've picked up, but I believe Aryan actually decompiled the client (before they started obfuscating the code) and modified stuff then recompiled the client with their modified code.

I'm not really sure who "brought" reflection to the community. The guys over at Mopar have been hooking the client for what seems like forever.

I'm quite sure Aryan was the first, and only, packet bot for RS2. Also, according to this post it was our very own BenLand who introduced reflection for the first time to the RS cheating scene.

From: Benland100

At this point I had tried to retire many times, but seemed to, so I helped him. REFLECTION is my contribution, my gift, to the Runescape cheating community. As a joke, we called it the "kick your ass bot" or KYAB. Needless to say it was cool, but badly received by the color community, but still, great idea.

On another note, the OGL intercept isn't limited to just Windows. As far as I know both Aftermath & Miss Silabsoft were both using Linux with WINE to run their Simba plugin. Thus their Simba could still read color normally on RS OGL mode.

If you ask me, I would much rather see the OpenGL interception being worked on rather than DirectX.

From: Flight
I'm quite sure Aryan was the first, and only, packet bot for RS2.

Are you sure you don't mean AutoRune instead of Aryan? Also, wasn't RSDemon a packet bot too?

From: Flight
Also, according to this post it was our very own BenLand who introduced reflection for the first time to the RS cheating scene

I'm not sure what Ben meant there. iBot had tile walking I believe before that, but Ben I believe contributed a great deal in all that. Not completely sure, maybe I'll just need to talk to Ben.

From: Method
Are you sure you don't mean AutoRune instead of Aryan? Also, wasn't RSDemon a packet bot too?

Yes for sure AutoRune functioned via packets, but I sure thought Aryan was as well. I never dug too deep into it, I mainly just used the light functionality to make scripts and such. Back then I wouldn't really know what to look for, ya know…

RSDemon I've only heard rumors and such about. I wouldn't be a very reliable source for info on that. :p I'm quite surprised you also don't know so much about RSDemon, Method. I know you've a history in the RS client scene as well.

@Bobarkinator:
Do you know when iBot came around? It might have come after Benland's project for all I know. :S

I see DirectX interception as a more accurate way of color botting. By using DirectX we can find items/objects easier by using ID's etc., but you can't grab your position like reflection/injection. I believe you can grab the world map by using DirectX intereception though, which can be used for a more accurate way of SPS Walking I guess.

I'm looking forward to the completion.

From: J J
I see DirectX interception as a more accurate way of color botting. By using DirectX we can find items/objects easier by using ID's etc., but you can't grab your position like reflection/injection. I believe you can grab the world map by using DirectX intereception though, which can be used for a more accurate way of SPS Walking I guess.

I'm looking forward to the completion.

Actually mato can determine your position using directx he uses the worlds geometry to find where you are.
You should have another look search his thread for latest version and test it out.

From: J J
I see DirectX interception as a more accurate way of color botting. By using DirectX we can find items/objects easier by using ID's etc., but you can't grab your position like reflection/injection. I believe you can grab the world map by using DirectX intereception though, which can be used for a more accurate way of SPS Walking I guess.

I'm looking forward to the completion.

Both oGL and Dx can do this. Also From TRiBot you can get MiniMap Icon so they Have ID's I'm sure you can with Dx Too.
Edit:@CRUZ I have never gotten his Injection to work :/

I think it will be great as long as we don't forget about colour.

From: CRU1Z1N
Actually mato can determine your position using directx he uses the worlds geometry to find where you are.
You should have another look search his thread for latest version and test it out.

From: Mat
Both oGL and Dx can do this. Also From TRiBot you can get MiniMap Icon so they Have ID's I'm sure you can with Dx Too.
Edit:@CRUZ I have never gotten his Injection to work :/

Combining these two comments :P I see, by using the icon id's and other stuff you can probably determine your location pretty damn accurately :P I'll check the thread out again, I probably missed some things while I was on holiday.

None, of his links see to work for me :/
Mat

From: Flight

@Bobarkinator:
Do you know when iBot came around? It might have come after Benland's project for all I know. :S

iBot was a java color bot that was definitely around before KYAB. solarwind actually came out of that community and I distinctly remember we were pretty pumped for KYAB because we could replicate iBot's tile walking. Now, for all I know, Ben wrote the reflection for iBot as well. That's the part that I don't have all worked out. However, that could make sense, seeing as solarwind knew to contact Ben to get his project worked on.

From: Brandon
This isn't true.. GLIntercept is barely ever used if used at all anymore. It's just used for the calls but the OpenGL RS uses now is custom built.. They include the Corona Library within it. Also GLIntercept gives some calls that RS doesn't use anymore :S Might be outdated a bit which is why SimbaGL doesn't work right now. Calls such as the ARB ones don't exist anymore and will Crash RS.

No ASM needed unless you actually hook with addresses. Who does that anymore :S I used to do that. Just learn Detours and it's maybe iunno max 6 lines a hook..

Mato has posted the source for DX more than once. Might not be up to date atm but meh I'm sure when he's done he'll post it.

I hadn't seen your thread Brandon, impressive stuff, I'll do some more reading. :)