SRL Archive - Discussions and Debates

Recent bans - My concerns


weequ

2012-02-19 19:40:02

So quite recently I have heard of a few people getting banned for "gold farming" using Simba.

Basically I'm mostly concerned about these things:
  • Smart being detectable. (For example calling getParent() in the applet)
  • Never dragging mouse when clicking. (Most scripts never move the mouse even 1 pixel when the mouse is pressed. Should SRL's Mouse procedure be improved?)
  • Scanning system processes for Simba.exe (I don't know what could be done about this)
  • Only supporting safe mode. (Someone using others modes is much less likely to be a botter than someone using safe mode)

I wonder if they are going to use those against us in the upcoming "Screen-scraper" nuke.

Your thoughts?

kingarabian

2012-02-19 19:43:40

I think if they're gonna Mass-Ban us then it's going to most likely involve SMART.

[XoL]

2012-02-19 19:44:33

I don't think so, my account name has SRL and Villavu in it :P
The other guy, I don't really know perhaps he really was gold farming. I heard of mains getting banned for "gold distributing" when they just gave 100m+ away to people.

PatDuffy

2012-02-19 19:48:07

I think it has something to do with unequal trading…A person isn't banned until they bank the items gotten from an unequal trade(I recall see'ing a few days ago someone traded onto a mule, then waited a week and banked the mule, the next day the mule was banned)

I think as long as you dont actually goldfarm your still fine

[XoL]

2012-02-19 19:53:23

I actually admitted to trading from my OWN accounts to each other, not a lot but I said 1 million to start off. I got un-banned, with 0 offenses.

SubiN

2012-02-19 19:54:29

im sure money is flagged ( i know this is gonna sound stupid ) but PatDuffy has a point . I think jagex checks how you trade e.g. if you farm alot of yew logs and sell them for gp then the money you made probably sets of an alarm ( flagged ) and then a system will probably track how the money is used ( as in directly traded to another player or buy items ). Just a theory

PatDuffy

2012-02-19 19:56:32

I also thought that SMART was designed to look like FireFox or something? I think I heard that once

E: Searching for Simba.exe wouldn't work for Jagex either, Simba is a pascal interpreter and could be used for multiple things.

weequ

2012-02-19 19:59:28

From: PatDuffy
I also thought that SMART was designed to look like FireFox or something? I think I heard that once
It sends the user-agent of firefox but that doesn't stop Jagex from getting the container of the applet and possibly checking the tittle etc.

Basically they could currently detect smart in 1 line of code as far as I'm aware of. (if getParent().getTittle().contains("S.M.A.R.T") { Ban() } or something like that)

One day I asked Benland100 if they could do that and he basically answered that they could but they just don't..

[XoL]

2012-02-19 19:59:59

From: SubiN
im sure money is flagged ( i know this is gonna sound stupid ) but PatDuffy has a point . I think jagex checks how you trade e.g. if you farm alot of yew logs and sell them for gp then the money you made probably sets of an alarm ( flagged ) and then a system will probably track how the money is used ( as in directly traded to another player or buy items ). Just a theory


See I would agree with this but that makes no sense in my case, I got banned for being the Gold Farmer which would imply I am the person who is making the money. The first time I have ever banked anything I mined/cut/killed for was willow logs (GE value of like 15gp), did I get flagged for gold farming with willows o.o? I did get unbanned though when I stated I was not gold farming.

PatDuffy

2012-02-19 20:03:21

But would SMART still condemn a player for being an auto'er? I have used SMART in the past to play legit on, since I already had it up.

I don't see how Jagex can determine if someone bots "without a doubt" simply by the prescience of a client.

weequ

2012-02-19 20:06:47

From: PatDuffy
But would SMART still condemn a player for being an auto'er? I have used SMART in the past to play legit on, since I already had it up.

I don't see how Jagex can determine if someone bots "without a doubt" simply by the prescience of a client.
I remember when they banned all my accounts that I had logged in using the Aryan bot client. I didn't even auto on all of those accounts :(

Flight

2012-02-19 20:30:53

Mouse improvements? Can do!

Mr. Freeweed

2012-02-19 20:42:19

Hi new weequ what really matters is how long are you in a anti rantidon. Thats why i use antiarandom for the false a indication.

Only thing I could not solve is bee hive and it seems like its solvable now. only one id give my acounts to is yohojo but he would give them to someone I dont know.


Randoms need to be solved trust the staff here. I might steal your beers. =)

Mr. Freeweed

2012-02-20 00:27:59

where is yohoko cause I dont want to make these things. Please close
Im more interested in making things that will work.. excuse me for walking into this.

Mr. Freeweed

2012-02-20 00:33:11

is there a modd to close this?

PatDuffy

2012-02-20 00:33:53

why would it need closing?

YoHoJo

2012-02-20 00:34:24

FreeWeed sounds drunk.. hmm

Kyle Undefined

2012-02-20 00:40:14

I don't think Safe mode would be an issue, since you could claim that all the HD crap kills your computer.

[XoL]

2012-02-20 00:41:39

From: YoHoJo
FreeWeed sounds drunk.. hmm


Or High, free"weed" location: Ca "weed"
You catch my drift..hmm

Anyways… Is the version of SMART instancing an old version of firefox?

Mr. Freeweed

2012-02-20 01:12:45

nothing to see here

YoHoJo

2012-02-20 01:18:03

Tons of people use army on same IP.
I think it was the transferring to a fresh account maybe.

Er1k

2012-02-20 01:20:31

Maybe try what Risk has said? Trade someone on GE from time to time. Buy some junk from legits, sell them back to GE to create some record of trading to make you look less suspicious?

Mr. Freeweed

2012-02-20 01:22:18

i put this into quiet reserve. sorry for being unprofessional.


From: YoHoJo
FreeWeed sounds drunk.. hmm

DaWu

2012-02-20 07:28:52

I dare to claim its just the fact that people use scripts that are public instead of making their own.
Color has higher response time and often works gloggier than say, a reflection script would.
When theres 30 guys in the same server doing the same derps, its not really hard for anyone to figure, not to mention the fact that plenty of randoms arent solved, which wasn't the case for bots before nuke.

Make private scripts or atleast customize every script for yourself.

Runescape Pro

2012-02-20 07:38:46

I really just think it's the trading aspect.

WT-Fakawi

2012-02-20 07:56:49

I still do uneven trades, but my Players are all on each others Friendlist. Dunno if it matters, but haven't been banned as of yet.

My feeling is: They don't have a clue. What they are doing now is a wild guess, since they are unable write code to catch us. Remember: the banning mechanisms are ALL AUTOMATIC. No human interference.

While for a legit it is pretty obvious when someone is botting, for a set of rules the situation is entirely different.

SRL has many randomised parameters. If they would be wrong, we would all been banned long ago, because that is what the company is aiming for.

I am convinced they have changed the banning-code, but they are constantly tweaking the parameters.

Hero

2012-02-20 10:36:36

I do not think that I will ever truly be concerned for my account. I mean I like my project and all but would not be mad if they banned me tomorrow.(lol) I have personally made millions for myself off private scripts AND public scripts with no issues(used to improve project). I have also sat in randoms, logged in, for at least 20 hours straight(at least) and have had no issues.

Thanks for the heads up though!
(All cash trading I have done, I have had the accounts on FL too.)

Brandon

2012-02-20 10:55:36

Smart can get you banned if jagex really wanted to detect it. MITB had a thread on this somewhere around here.. Secondly.. Safe-mode needs to go. There is no way that you can argue that safe-mode uses less resources than open gl or direct x because it really doesn't. Not sure why we use safemode but if I remember correctly, smart used to be able to run in any mode and I remember seeing someone tweak it to automatically use safemode. Jagex doesn't even allow you to use safemode as an option. You'd have to know it was there and hold down the S button when loading the client.

if changes get made to the mouse, it should be like the RID mouse.. they honestly have the most human mouse movements I've ever seen.

RISK

2012-02-20 10:59:11

It's so human it makes my real mouse movements seem bot-like.

From: ggzz
if changes get made to the mouse, it should be like the RID mouse.. they honestly have the most human mouse movements I've ever seen.

Mat

2012-02-20 12:21:20

On both my account I've trade over 200m between um, but they are both members with 5 pr so yrs on them of legit stuff. No roll backs or nothing apart from one mute as my second was my sister old one.
My main is clean. Maybe there going after new accounts?
Mat

smurg

2012-02-20 13:28:36

What gets you banned is being F2P.

If you are P2P, visit sorceress garden, green dragons, red chins, and there are tons of injection/packet bots. They would most likely go after those users named "sdmwepgmwe", level 3, running sorc garden than us.

Saying they can do a lot of things is pointless. Easiest thing of all, they could look at time logged. I 24/7 all of my accounts (Main going on 1.5+ years) and they are perfectly fine.

bg5

2012-02-20 17:44:12

I personally think there is no problem , I saw 2 threads ppl recently banned for RWT ,and they got unbanned after apeal. It seems to be failure in Jagex's ban system.

I believe ,if Jagex really care about us ,would make automatic mass-ban:
if (player.safemode)and(player.CheckForSMART) then player.Ban

Flight

2012-02-20 21:37:52

From: ggzz
Smart can get you banned if jagex really wanted to detect it. MITB had a thread on this somewhere around here.. Secondly.. Safe-mode needs to go. There is no way that you can argue that safe-mode uses less resources than open gl or direct x because it really doesn't. Not sure why we use safemode but if I remember correctly, smart used to be able to run in any mode and I remember seeing someone tweak it to automatically use safemode. Jagex doesn't even allow you to use safemode as an option. You'd have to know it was there and hold down the S button when loading the client.


Right you are. I remember reading the thread as well. What exactly are the advantages of using safe-mode as opposed to the others? Is it really worth putting our accounts at risk? I also agree, I think it's time for change.

From: ggzz

if changes get made to the mouse, it should be like the RID mouse.. they honestly have the most human mouse movements I've ever seen.


That's what most people have to say about RiD; the mouse movements. I've never used it myself, but I've heard nothing bad about this feature. Are there any videos floating around Youtube or something I could see it in action? I can't view them now as I'm still running off horrible internet, but hopefully soon I'll be back up and running.

DemiseScythe

2012-02-20 21:52:43

From: Flight
Right you are. I remember reading the thread as well. What exactly are the advantages of using safe-mode as opposed to the others? Is it really worth putting our accounts at risk? I also agree, I think it's time for change.



That's what most people have to say about RiD; the mouse movements. I've never used it myself, but I've heard nothing bad about this feature. Are there any videos floating around Youtube or something I could see it in action? I can't view them now as I'm still running off horrible internet, but hopefully soon I'll be back up and running.


I can give you 106 credits from RiD so you can see how it moves and stuff. I bought them a while back but never used them, they should be good for about 106 hours depending on which one you try. Pm me if you interested.

Edit: Free ofc ^.^~!

Flight

2012-02-20 22:23:10

From: DemiseScythe
I can give you 106 credits from RiD so you can see how it moves and stuff. I bought them a while back but never used them, they should be good for about 106 hours depending on which one you try. Pm me if you interested.

Edit: Free ofc ^.^~!


That's very generous of you to offer, Demise, and I surely appreciate it. I guess I'm just strictly set on Simba only ya know… Either that or I'm paranoid. :S Anyways I'd personally rather watch a video of it in action, I hope you understand.

Mat

2012-02-21 02:06:17

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK49eNrRxlY
Power Miner

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tzCsBkp4-4&feature=related
BlackSmith

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uBR-SPZXQA
Ivy
<3
Mat They are very good bots :)

kingarabian

2012-02-21 03:49:01

Wow his mouse movements are a thing of beauty.

Er1k

2012-02-22 23:59:16

I just checked my accounts today and one of them was banned for RWT goldfarming on Feb 18, 2012. Interestingly when I check it right now the ban is alerady quashed.

I guess it's because it's automatic and they got the wrong guy?

Flight

2012-02-23 00:29:09

I just don't get it guys, I watched those 3 videos and I don't see what the hype is all about. I made a simple addition to WindMouse that, first, moves the mouse into a "miss region" before hitting the target destination and then corrects itself. I talked about it here but it didn't get much attention.

On top of that just yesterday infact I modified WindMouse to shift mouse speeds for each 'step' the mouse takes to move to the next point on the path. I already included this in the newest Barb Fly-Fisher (1.5+) and I plan to use it throughout my scripts from now on. Right now I just use a static (but randomly generated) mouse speed to add/subtract from the current mouse speed during each mouse step in a path. This can easily be redone to add/subtract speed based off the original mouse speed (by a percentage, I'd imagine). Here's what I have so far:

//By Bandland100, modified to shift mouse speeds after every step
procedure SuperWindMouse(xs, ys, xe, ye, gravity, wind, minWait, maxWait, maxStep, targetArea: extended);
var
veloX,veloY,windX,windY,veloMag,dist,randomDist,lastDist,step: extended;
lastX,lastY,MSP: integer;
sqrt2,sqrt3,sqrt5: extended;
begin
MSP := MouseSpeed;
sqrt2:= sqrt(2);
sqrt3:= sqrt(3);
sqrt5:= sqrt(5);
while hypot(xs - xe, ys - ye) > 1 do
begin
dist:= hypot(xs - xe, ys - ye);
wind:= minE(wind, dist);
if dist >= targetArea then
begin
windX:= windX / sqrt3 + (random(round(wind) * 2 + 1) - wind) / sqrt5;
windY:= windY / sqrt3 + (random(round(wind) * 2 + 1) - wind) / sqrt5;
end else
begin
windX:= windX / sqrt2;
windY:= windY / sqrt2;
if (maxStep < 3) then
begin
maxStep:= random(3) + 3.0;
end else
begin
maxStep:= maxStep / sqrt5;
end;
end;
veloX:= veloX + windX;
veloY:= veloY + windY;
veloX:= veloX + gravity * (xe - xs) / dist;
veloY:= veloY + gravity * (ye - ys) / dist;
if hypot(veloX, veloY) > maxStep then
begin
randomDist:= maxStep / 2.0 + random(round(maxStep) div 2);
veloMag:= sqrt(veloX * veloX + veloY * veloY);
veloX:= (veloX / veloMag) * randomDist;
veloY:= (veloY / veloMag) * randomDist;
end;
lastX:= Round(xs);
lastY:= Round(ys);
xs:= xs + veloX;
ys:= ys + veloY;

{For now statically add or subtract 2..5 speed}
case Random(2) of
1: MouseSpeed := (MSP + (RandomRange(2, 5)));
2: MouseSpeed := (MSP - (RandomRange(2, 5)));
end;
if (MouseSpeed < 4) then
MouseSpeed := 4;

if (lastX <> Round(xs)) or (lastY <> Round(ys)) then
MoveMouse(Round(xs), Round(ys));

step:= hypot(xs - lastX, ys - lastY);
wait(round((maxWait - minWait) * (step / maxStep) + minWait));
lastdist:= dist;
MouseSpeed := MS;
end;

{For now statically add or subtract 2..5 speed}
case Random(2) of
1: MouseSpeed := (MSP + (RandomRange(2, 5)));
2: MouseSpeed := (MSP - (RandomRange(2, 5)));
end;
if (MouseSpeed < 4) then
MouseSpeed := 4;

if (Round(xe) <> Round(xs)) or (Round(ye) <> Round(ys)) then
MoveMouse(Round(xe), Round(ye));

MouseSpeed := MSP;
end;

Come on guys, the hard part Ben has already done for us, but why stop there? With even just a little bit of modification we can make our mouse movements identical to any real person.

Forever we've been using a single speed when moving from one point to another, why is that?

z92

2012-02-23 09:14:32

As far as I am aware, all the banned accounts have been f2p. I feel confident Jagex can catch us already if they wanted to; they just can't afford to ban half their paying members.
Perhaps Jagex is even starting to develop a sense of respect for our work - I mean, we're not known for destroying the econony like java bots tend to.

Kyle Undefined

2012-02-23 09:21:09

None of my accounts have been banned, even though they're all P2P. I never auto on a F2P account, that's just asking to be banned.

Also, I tend to think they enjoy this cat and mouse game. It's a fun challenge for both of us.

Mr. Freeweed

2012-03-17 00:20:02

Thanks for banning me. I have a hammer in the back bam bam. not my usuall self take care.

Not happy about it. I always answer something I see needs answered. Damit,.././.j;lke;tklnioykjl; zxdfwftr54awefr5kjl;kjl;

[XoL]

2012-03-17 14:22:00

I autoed on all my F2P accounts; none have been banned.
Besides that one time but it was for real world trade, and was reversed the next day.

i3egoHan

2012-03-17 14:54:57

If RuneScape does check process's, They must state that (or on those grounds) in there ToS.

And yes your right, if you want to stay unbanned, by far the best way to bot is from the actual RuneScape client, be it a browser or the downloadable client.