SRL Archive - Discussions and Debates

Okay, so, considering some of the things I've seen around here, I figured I'd get people's opinions first before deciding on anything. Especially looking for SSRL+ members to comment, due to the nature of this.

I was just wondering what the general outlook would be on me releasing a "LITE" Sudoku script to Members+?
It'd be "LITE" because it only solves small caskets (no way I'm giving people my main one :P)

It's also not easily modified to do large caskets, since the small ones don't require solving logic, they just use a set layout, every time.

I've done extensive testing with it too, works pretty damn well.

My impression is that if one could earn members here they would be able to solve the full sudoku on their own. Anyway a lite version is always welcomed - maybe giving non members some incentives to prove themselves?

Is it that profitable?

From: Usa
Is it that profitable?

Small amounts of testing with it is showing anywhere between 700k-1.1mil/hour for small caskets, depending on lag/speed and runes obtained. (The script compensates for talk lag and doesn't use generic wait times, so if you're lagging, it'll work but take longer)

I won't release to public since it could make rune prices crash…but I think members+ is ok. Small caskets only get you elemental runes.


Mad props to Markus for being the person who originally found this method of gold making (whenever it was he did, but hey, he said on IRC)

To be frankly honest, if things are in here and only in here, you're fine with releasing it. Nobody would abuse the shit out of it, especially seeing as some of us don't even play the game, or care for the gold for that matter. I on the other hand am more interested on how you went about writing a solver for it, lol.

Nonetheless, up to you in the end, just my two cents what I'd do/think if I was in your shoes.

From: XxX Toxin XxX
To be frankly honest, if things are in here and only in here, you're fine with releasing it. Nobody would abuse the shit out of it, especially seeing as some of us don't even play the game, or care for the gold for that matter. I on the other hand am more interested on how you went about writing a solver for it, lol.

Nonetheless, up to you in the end, just my two cents what I'd do/think if I was in your shoes.

Yeah, I was thinking that. Just hoping to get at least one SSRL+ to comment, considering some of the drama that's apparently occurred regarding Sudoku solvers..

Writing the solver itself was fun :D

The small caskets are easy, they ALWAYS follow this pattern:
1 2 3 4
4 3 2 1
3 4 1 2
2 1 4 3

The large ones (A proper grid..), I finally got solving using pure logic based methods (no bruteforcing at all, so it gets to a solution the way a human would…just…a /lot/ faster)
There's still some puzzles it can't solve, but mostly it works pretty well. Quite proud of myself :)

Don't release to general public will crash the runes prices. Would be interesting to look at.

From: Methrend
Yeah, I was thinking that. Just hoping to get at least one SSRL+ to comment, considering some of the drama that's apparently occurred regarding Sudoku solvers..

Writing the solver itself was fun :D

The small caskets are easy, they ALWAYS follow this pattern:
1 2 3 4
4 3 2 1
3 4 1 2
2 1 4 3

The large ones (A proper grid..), I finally got solving using pure logic based methods (no bruteforcing at all, so it gets to a solution the way a human would…just…a /lot/ faster)
There's still some puzzles it can't solve, but mostly it works pretty well. Quite proud of myself :)

Hmmm, interesting find about the way the arrangement works for the small casket. And don't worry, there'll be a few SSRL+ Members that'll comment and probably agree with what everyone else has to say. Some probably don't even care, because you're right. There was plenty of drama around this, only because (don't kill me if I'm wrong), but we were the only ones with a solver or even with the idea of having a solver for the mini game and then after that, another community (I think PowerBot) created a few solvers and released them publicly = no more decent money making for the legit Members at SRL because the public whored the shit out of it.

From: Methrend

The large ones (A proper grid..), I finally got solving using pure logic based methods (no bruteforcing at all, so it gets to a solution the way a human would…just…a /lot/ faster)
There's still some puzzles it can't solve, but mostly it works pretty well. Quite proud of myself :)

I thought 9x9 the most cost-effective way is to bruteforce it. Logic works, but you have to implement the rules one by one, which is a pain. It's easier to either use a simple bruteforce (simple backtracking), or if you've more time to look into the more powerful algorithms, maybe DLX.

By limiting to pure logic I think you're missing out some hellish sudokus which cannot be solved without more advanced logic rules that the solver has not yet implemented.

Back at high school I did a logic solver as a school project. I was only able to do up to naked/hidden pair/triples really. Chains and the other stuff were totally incomprehensible to me back then

From: nosaj.421
I thought 9x9 the most cost-effective way is to bruteforce it. Logic works, but you have to implement the rules one by one, which is a pain. It's easier to either use a simple bruteforce (simple backtracking), or if you've more time to look into the more powerful algorithms, maybe DLX.

By limiting to pure logic I think you're missing out some hellish sudokus which cannot be solved without more advanced logic rules that the solver has not yet implemented.

Back at high school I did a logic solver as a school project. I was only able to do up to naked/hidden pair/triples really. Chains and the other stuff were totally incomprehensible to me back then

I've found logic to be a lot faster for the runescape ones. There's only a couple of layouts I've seen that it won't solve, and luckily RS sticks to mostly easier stuff, so implementing higher logic isn't necessary. I think I just need to add a couple more checks to be able to solve the couple it won't get.
Right now it's taking about 0.5-1.5 seconds to get a solution. :)

That's awesome you got one working! However, I wouldn't release the LITE version because it would be abused like hell. We want rune prices to rise, not plummet to the ground.

From: Methrend
I've found logic to be a lot faster for the runescape ones. There's only a couple of layouts I've seen that it won't solve, and luckily RS sticks to mostly easier stuff, so implementing higher logic isn't necessary. I think I just need to add a couple more checks to be able to solve the couple it won't get.
Right now it's taking about 0.5-1.5 seconds to get a solution. :)

Interesting. I never had p2p to check out how the actual sudokus look like but well I suppose 0.5-1.5 is very fast.

Anyway if the number of givens are somewhere around 24 (cant remember exact, 17 is minimum for one to be unambiguous) , it should be easy as hell. As I said, as long as you implement the hidden pair/triples, it should be doable.

From: nosaj.421
Interesting. I never had p2p to check out how the actual sudokus look like but well I suppose 0.5-1.5 is very fast.

Anyway if the number of givens are somewhere around 24 (cant remember exact, 17 is minimum for one to be unambiguous) , it should be easy as hell. As I said, as long as you implement the hidden pair/triples, it should be doable.

Yeah I'll probably add them in at some point to get full solving, but at the moment it's not too much trouble to just close the window and start a new one, considering it doesn't come up unsolvable too often. Most of the ones presented by the game are possible with just naked/hidden singles

My opinion is that with the global economy what it is, providing an unadultered source of money will simply serve to increase inflation. While those who benefit from this new source may be sitting pretty, it would be the common man, Joe the Plumber if you will, who would suffer as their stockpiles of cash simply aren't enough to support their family through the tough economical years that are fast approaching.

where did markus script go? i tried to find it, it was public all cause of huge drama, i wouldnt realease it to juniors i probably would release the full version to members as hardly anyone bots but then again the drama with people leaking to rid etc

long story short there is a version floating around somewhere here created for scar though

From: Bonfield
where did markus script go? i tried to find it, it was public all cause of huge drama, i wouldnt realease it to juniors i probably would release the full version to members as hardly anyone bots but then again the drama with people leaking to rid etc

long story short there is a version floating around somewhere here created for scar though

Got moved :)


@OP: You're free to release whatever you want, really :p

From: Zyt3x
Got moved :)

and i know where… :p

I think releasing the small casket wouldn't be to damaging. Everyone would also have to know that using anything like this is at their own risk. The last I knew any/all suduko bots had a high ban rate. So possibly just have it go a bit slower on purpose to make it look human? I would be curious to see this released :3

Releasing it to the general public will cause prices to crash. Releasing it to SRL Members sadly often means releasing it to the general public.

My impression is that if one could earn members here they would be able to solve the full sudoku on their own.

I lol'd, actually creating a sudoku solver from scratch is easily above DTMs and crap…

From: n3ss3s
I lol'd, actually creating a sudoku solver from scratch is easily above DTMs and crap…

Seeing I don't really play the game, I considered the problem the hard way :P ie. Get numbers from screen, load to array, run your bruteforce solver, voila

From: nosaj.421
Seeing I don't really play the game, I considered the problem the hard way :P ie. Get numbers from screen, load to array, run your bruteforce solver, voila

Yeah, as an actual programmer I found the logic behind it incredibly easy to implement. Having it work for runescape (which uses runes instead of numbers) was a trivial matter.

I suppose it would be fairly difficult for those people who are runescape scripters and not much else, since this is definitely more of a logic coding problem that really has nothing to do with the game.


On the topic: I might wait a bit, then release the LITE one to Members+, and see what happens.

if u play soduku on ubuntu with the helper on , its really easy to learn the algorithim to solve it

Facepalm, when I said making a sudoku solver is difficult I meant the SOLVER, not the script.

run your bruteforce solver, voila

You need to make it before you can run it…

From: n3ss3s
Facepalm, when I said making a sudoku solver is difficult I meant the SOLVER, not the script.



You need to make it before you can run it…

The methods on making bruteforce sudoku solver is widely available on the internet, however. Simple backtracking should do. Backtracking in my opinion is not difficult. It just takes time.

Or if one is proficient with algorithms, a good option will be DLX, but now that would be much more difficult.

How was the previous solver done, wasn't it connecting to a server?