SRL Archive - Help and Support

Please don't flame, I am just looking for ideas.
Instead of continuing this conversation in the Simba Plugins thread I am making this thread.
So initially I thought of compiling to .exe but scrapped that idea.
Next I thought of changing Simbas UI but I don't have the knowledge of Lazarus.
Then I thought of using the script as a plugin, this would hide the source. But you can't use SRL functions inside the plugin.
Last of all, connecting to a remote server and loading the script through that, but I don't understand how it would be loaded and the script still hidden.

Thanks for any opinions, ideas feedback etc.

-Boom

Why not make a temporary 'Key' that the script will randomly generate and then use to access the server? Every time the temporary key is used, it will be expired after that. The temporary key could be 20+ characters long and be generated with a plugin with many math functions and such.

Then you could put the script that accesses the server with the key in to a plugin too just to make it a 'tad harder.

Hmm I like the random key generator idea, but as far as I have been told you can't put a script in a plugin?

-Boom

Maybe, but you can put a math generating function in to a plugin, can't you? Then access it from a script.

It's going to be cracked one way or another, you'd be wasting your time to try it, and it'd be against the GPL to have a closed-source script use the open-source SRL. You'd have to give the source-code of your payscript to anyone who requests it, or you're breaking the law.

Your best bet would be to make your own 100% original include with NOTHING copied, compile that all into a .dll, and have it check and verify the hardware IDs of the person running the script. That'll still be cracked easy, but it'd be a bit more difficult than your other methods you're thinking of doing.

Unless you're making a dungeoneering script or something, a better use of your time would be to not sell it (at most you're probably going to make like 20 dollars), unless it's a 100% original idea that no one else can script.

From: RISK
Maybe, but you can put a math generating function in to a plugin, can't you? Then access it from a script.

Yes but then there is still the problem of once you have access to the script on the server, you would have to load the script into simba or is it possible to run it from a server?

-Boom

From: Harry
It's going to be cracked one way or another, you'd be wasting your time to try it, and it'd be against the GPL to have a closed-source script use the open-source SRL. You'd have to give the source-code of your payscript to anyone who requests it, or you're breaking the law.

Your best bet would be to make your own 100% original include with NOTHING copied, compile that all into a .dll, and have it check and verify the hardware IDs of the person running the script. That'll still be cracked easy, but it'd be a bit more difficult than your other methods you're thinking of doing.

Unless you're making a dungeoneering script or something, a better use of your time would be to not sell it (at most you're probably going to make like 20 dollars), unless it's a 100% original idea that no one else can script.

Well I have spoken to Wizzup and I am thinking of polling who is against the idea, if they are against it I will rewrite every bit of code they have produced.
Wizzup is not against the idea as I will be contributing to SRL for every purchase of script.
I will be comparing HWIDs aswell yes.

-Boom

From: Dynamite
Well I have spoken to Wizzup and I am thinking of polling who is against the idea, if they are against it I will rewrite every bit of code they have produced.
Wizzup is not against the idea as I will be contributing to SRL for every purchase of script.
I will be comparing HWIDs aswell yes.

Doesn't matter, a lot of the code is contributed and edited by a lot of people who don't even put their name onto it because it's a community project, and they are under the assumption it will only be used for FOSS purposes.

And where does this "SRL money" go? None of the devs or any of the scriptwriters are paid, and that probably won't change. Not that Wizzup doesn't deserve the money, just that you can't possibly call it "to SRL" when SRL is a community that has had thousands of people contribute to the include and community.

And what does your script even do? Isn't it just a miner, last time I recall you mentioned it being that? That'd be really easy to have someone else make, how do you plan to get any sales with it?

From: Harry
Doesn't matter, a lot of the code is contributed and edited by a lot of people who don't even put their name onto it because it's a community project, and they are under the assumption it will only be used for FOSS purposes.

And where does this "SRL money" go? None of the devs or any of the scriptwriters are paid, and that probably won't change. Not that Wizzup doesn't deserve the money, just that you can't possibly call it "to SRL" when SRL is a community that has had thousands of people contribute to the include and community.

And what does your script even do? Isn't it just a miner, last time I recall you mentioned it being that? That'd be really easy to have someone else make, how do you plan to get any sales with it?

The script/scripts aren't made yet…

From: Dynamite
The script/scripts aren't made yet…

Then you should concentrate your efforts on making an original script that will be difficult for someone else to "rip off" efficiently. Worry about making your script "secure" AFTER actually coding it! But no matter how you do it, other than providing a service where you use your own CPU power on their accounts, it will be cracked.

I am not very good or knowledgble about web programming, but i was acturally thinking about having a server side script that would handle important caculations for the main script (which they buy/download).

Each time when the user is trying to access the calculation, it sends the server its user name and "auth code" that you generated for them. The server would first check if the authcode is valid, and then record the user name and the time it made the calculation, and will only return the correct calculation when the time since last calculation is greater than xx minutes or it is the same username as last request.

From: Harry
Then you should concentrate your efforts on making an original script that will be difficult for someone else to "rip off" efficiently. Worry about making your script "secure" AFTER actually coding it! But no matter how you do it, other than providing a service where you use your own CPU power on their accounts, it will be cracked.

No I want to worry about the securing before the actual script, thanks for your input though.

-Boom

I just noticed Simba has a "CallProc", —> mega obbing

From: n3ss3s
I just noticed Simba has a "CallProc", —> mega obbing

Only works for "self-made" functions / procedures. I.E you can't "CallProc('Wait');" afaik

From: Zyt3x
Only works for "self-made" functions / procedures. I.E you can't "CallProc('Wait');" afaik

What do you mean by self made? Functions that are created in the script?

-Boom

From: Dynamite
What do you mean by self made? Functions that are created in the script?

-Boom

Yes, callproc only works for the functions made in the script.

@Harry, you realise that if the dll is closed source you have very little evidence of proving that it uses srl, so really you cant demand its source unless you have evidence to prove it in a court of law.

Unless I'm missing something. Just have an IP check for your auth?

Like, have them login to a web UI, grab their IP, and use that for permission to access the script?

Have a nested time expiration in the script, so that they have to login like every 2+ hours or something, or whenever someone restarts it. Still easily cracked, but a pain to do so.

You talked about compiling a Simba script to an .exe file? I'm interested.. Would anyone like to steer me in a direction so I can found out how this is done? :)

From: Zyt3x
Only works for "self-made" functions / procedures. I.E you can't "CallProc('Wait');" afaik

Procedure xWait(time: integer);
begin
  wait(time);
end;

From: -daazndagger-
You talked about compiling a Simba script to an .exe file? I'm interested.. Would anyone like to steer me in a direction so I can found out how this is done? :)

It isn't

From: n3ss3s

Procedure xWait(time: integer);
begin
  wait(time);
end;

It isn't

Exactly my point

From: Zyt3x
Exactly my point

My point was your point isn't a problem because you can just make wrappers for whatever you need…

From: KingKong
@Harry, you realise that if the dll is closed source you have very little evidence of proving that it uses srl, so really you cant demand its source unless you have evidence to prove it in a court of law.

Wrong. The dll or the script would need to {$include} SRL if it's using SRL. I'm unsure if a dll can even include files at the moment. You could also use any form of simple process monitor to see that Simba is calling a ReadFile on the SRL includes. So unless you copied the entire include into your dll which would be a huge pain in the butt, it'd be able to be detected.


TBH it's a waste of time to make Simba payscripts, just wait for the Next Big Bot to come back and make one there. Simba is known as a buggy unstable piece of shit by most leechers (AKA those who would buy scripts), so unless you have a flawless working public version of something else to reassure people that you know how to script properly, no one will touch it. Unless you completely cut Simba out of the picture somehow (autorunning exe wrapper?), it would still take a lot of your time.

BTW, it also doesn't really help that the antirandoms aren't all solved properly either. How do you expect people to pay X dollars to you, and get a ton of negative reviews due to randoms breaking your script after 20 minutes?

From: Harry
Wrong. The dll or the script would need to {$include} SRL if it's using SRL. I'm unsure if a dll can even include files at the moment. You could also use any form of simple process monitor to see that Simba is calling a ReadFile on the SRL includes. So unless you copied the entire include into your dll which would be a huge pain in the butt, it'd be able to be detected.

TBH it's a waste of time to make Simba payscripts, just wait for the Next Big Bot to come back and make one there. Simba is known as a buggy unstable piece of shit by most leechers (AKA those who would buy scripts), so unless you have a flawless working public version of something else to reassure people that you know how to script properly, no one will touch it. Unless you completely cut Simba out of the picture somehow (autorunning exe wrapper?), it would still take a lot of your time.

BTW, it also doesn't really help that the antirandoms aren't all solved properly either. How do you expect people to pay X dollars to you, and get a ton of negative reviews due to randoms breaking your script after 20 minutes?

I don't think a dll can include files, so yeah you can't tell if its accessing the files. And yes when i said make a dll i meant include the SRL include inside the dll which imo can't be detected(have fun proving it uses GPL licenced stuff). Once you have a dll with srl include inside it(the hard part) why would you need simba? I would just use <insert programming language of your choice> and make a exe(the easy part).

I wasn't actually talking about making a payscript, I was only pointing out that people don't need to release the source of something even if it uses GPL licenced stuff unless it can be proven in a court of law.

From: KingKong
I don't think a dll can include files, so yeah you can't tell if its accessing the files. And yes when i said make a dll i meant include the SRL include inside the dll which imo can't be detected(have fun proving it uses GPL licenced stuff). Once you have a dll with srl include inside it(the hard part) why would you need simba? I would just use <insert programming language of your choice> and make a exe(the easy part).

I wasn't actually talking about making a payscript, I was only pointing out that people don't need to release the source of something even if it uses GPL licenced stuff unless it can be proven in a court of law.

There are still ways, though it'd be a bit harder to prove legally.

"why would you need simba?" did you really mean to write that, or did you mean something else? How is the dll supposed to work without Simba? The dll calls internal stuff in Simba, making a dll independent from SRL will still need Simba to use it.

And yes the do legally need to provide it, but that doesn't mean they can pretend they don't use GPL'd code.

Theres now a scar and simba script sale section on sythe. IMO, if you can hide it from most people I'd say its a job well done.

From: Harry

"why would you need simba?" did you really mean to write that, or did you mean something else? How is the dll supposed to work without Simba? The dll calls internal stuff in Simba, making a dll independent from SRL will still need Simba to use it.

Yes, i meant to write that. You don't need simba after you have a dll with the srl include in it. All you need to do after writing srl include inside the dll is link it with libsmart.dll and use it as the client. Then you write the wrappers for another language then import the dll with srl inside it then make an exe.

tl;dr: The dll works something like libmml-copy the color finding routines from simba into the dll.

Anyway this is getting offtopic, perhaps we should talk about it somewhere else.

From: -daazndagger-
You talked about compiling a Simba script to an .exe file? I'm interested.. Would anyone like to steer me in a direction so I can found out how this is done? :)

It's only been done once to my knowledge, it was only for scar, it absolutely necessitated a form to get player details, and was extremely hacky. It was made over by someone at scythe iirc. I believe it was just an exe that would unpack scar into a temporary folder, and run it with the window forcibly hidden.

I'm sure a quick google search would lead you to it.

Or you could wait until a proper method for this is implemented and not rush it.

sythe from sythe.org made it for scar.

What's this thing I'm reading about copy right? If I wrote out the whole include for use in DLL's that's copyright infringement?

From: ggzz
What's this thing I'm reading about copy right? If I wrote out the whole include for use in DLL's that's copyright infringement?

Its copyright infringement if you wrote the srl include in the DLL and not give the source.

What I'd say is to have an auth code in the script itself and then just have a couple of checks periodically throughout the script with some online database or whatever which just checks to make sure only 1 IP is communicating at a time using that auth code. THEN I would put the entire script on 1 line except for your declare players etc…
You say, "cause" why would I do something so easily cracked?
Because your target market has somewhat close to zero capiche on anything scripting related and probably would have no idea how to edit the script to takeout the checks or anything like that. I seriously believe you would have a very low script stealing/copying rate.
Btw I'd definitely suggest some proceeds going towards the maintenance of this forum.
PS I don't think you could actually rewrite all of the SRL include

From: cause
What I'd say is to have an auth code in the script itself and then just have a couple of checks periodically throughout the script with some online database or whatever which just checks to make sure only 1 IP is communicating at a time using that auth code. THEN I would put the entire script on 1 line except for your declare players etc…
You say, "cause" why would I do something so easily cracked?
Because your target market has somewhat close to zero capiche on anything scripting related and probably would have no idea how to edit the script to takeout the checks or anything like that. I seriously believe you would have a very low script stealing/copying rate.
Btw I'd definitely suggest some proceeds going towards the maintenance of this forum.
PS I don't think you could actually rewrite all of the SRL include

The problem isn't the masses, it's the one person who DOES know how to bypass the change, and distributes it.

Not to use bots as an example because we're dealing with one right now, but botting/cheating isn't a problem for games when only one or two people do, but when one person makes a bot/hack that EVERYONE and their half blind grandmother can use, it becomes one.

The problem isn't the masses, it's the one person who DOES know how to bypass the change, and distributes it.

What you are saying is true, however if Dynamite was in communication with our admin's here for our forum, and with mopar and potentially sythe, you could not allow the posting of the cracked scripts.

From: cause
What you are saying is true, however if Dynamite was in communication with our admin's here for our forum, and with mopar and potentially sythe, you could not allow the posting of the cracked scripts.

Are you implying something like this would happen:
1) UserX sells ScriptX at SomeBadPayscriptSite
2) UserY cracks ScriptX and posts it at SomeAwesomeCrackedScriptsSite
3) ??
4) UserY gets banned from SRL-Forums somehow?

I don't see how that makes any sense. ScriptX never interfered with SRL at all, so why would UserY get banned for cracking it and releasing it somewhere else? It was never on SRL to begin with!

From: Harry
Are you implying something like this would happen:
1) UserX sells ScriptX at SomeBadPayscriptSite
2) UserY cracks ScriptX and posts it at SomeAwesomeCrackedScriptsSite
3) ??
4) UserY gets banned from SRL-Forums somehow?

I don't see how that makes any sense. ScriptX never interfered with SRL at all, so why would UserY get banned for cracking it and releasing it somewhere else? It was never on SRL to begin with!

If the script seller supports SRL Forums / Wizzup / WT-Fakawi by a percentage.
Then yes, ScriptX does interfere with SRL.

-Boom

iDungeon Pro was cracked, all the time. HOWEVER, it was updated and improved on so much that you didn't want or often times couldn't use the 5 day old cracked version.
I say you use a technique like that. Ofc someone will crack it, but if you make it so you're pushing updates every couple days with new features, no one wants an outdated crack. If there's one thing leeches hate, it's waiting. They'll grow tired of waiting for someone to crack it.

Hmm, good idea.
How would I go about making it so that if the person has an old version, they need to update? And the script won't be able to run.
That way, if I keep updating then even if they crack it, it won't matter after a couple of days, because they couldn't use it anyway.

Thanks football :) <3

-Boom

Having an auto updater works, but can easily be taken out if the person knows how to script or add "//".

Ok so I was thinking…
What about making a plugin that holds the auto updater in but also holds needed information that makes the script run. Like colours, math, DTMs etc.
Any other vital information that I could put in a plugin?
The plugin would also generate a key and also have a checking procedure inside the plugin that checks if certain things in the script have been changed.

How does that sound?
Keeps the script open source but not runnable if they don't have the plugin.
Obviously a check in the plugin would be needed for Hardware ID or a check to make sure only 1 IP is running the script.

-Boom

SRL members should be allowed to publish scripts that will be downloaded with the script manager, encrypted and only runnable from the script manager. Moderators/admins could check through the source looking for naughty codes before publishing, and people would have to log into the script manager to get access and it would check if the user is already logged on.

If this has already been said, sorry, I didn't bother reading the entire thread ^^

From: Emaziz
SRL members should be allowed to publish scripts that will be downloaded with the script manager, encrypted and only runnable from the script manager. Moderators/admins could check through the source looking for naughty codes before publishing, and people would have to log into the script manager to get access and it would check if the user is already logged on.

If this has already been said, sorry, I didn't bother reading the entire thread ^^

that would be cool.. but they should also have the option to not encrypt, as a lot of people (including myself) learn from scripts

From: Emaziz
SRL members should be allowed to publish scripts that will be downloaded with the script manager, encrypted and only runnable from the script manager. Moderators/admins could check through the source looking for naughty codes before publishing, and people would have to log into the script manager to get access and it would check if the user is already logged on.

If this has already been said, sorry, I didn't bother reading the entire thread ^^

So RSBuddy then.

From: putonajonny
So RSBuddy then.

so what?

From: n3ss3s
My point was your point isn't a problem because you can just make wrappers for whatever you need…

But then you would be releasing the source anyway because you would need to do:

Procedure EpicFighting;
Begin
   if findcolors then
   etc
   etc
end;

Surely?

-Boom

From: Zyt3x
so what?

funniest thing ive ever seen

From: Emaziz
SRL members should be allowed to publish scripts that will be downloaded with the script manager, encrypted and only runnable from the script manager. Moderators/admins could check through the source looking for naughty codes before publishing, and people would have to log into the script manager to get access and it would check if the user is already logged on.

If this has already been said, sorry, I didn't bother reading the entire thread ^^

great idea, this way we could monitor who uses the script/ how many are sold so what % goes towards maintaining the script.

border line pay sites then though

How about you do this all yourself and stop getting people to do work for you, like everyone knows you do.

From: noidea
How about you do this all yourself and stop getting people to do work for you, like everyone knows you do.

How about you just leave and go troll somewhere else :)
Already posted that I am just looking for ideas.
I am doing all the work myself.
Now, I don't bother you with shit, please do the same for me :)

Thanks noidea for your awesome contribution to this thread!

-Boom

Dynamite, in order to encrypt your script by yourself, you would have to know and understand object pascal/Delphi and the Simba source code. Then you'll know how to encrypt your script :)

From: Dynamite
Thanks noidea for your awesome contribution to this thread!

Don't worry, he just has noidea` :D

Damn, I haven't said that in at least 2 and a half years :p

From: Dynamite
How about you just leave and go troll somewhere else :)
Already posted that I am just looking for ideas.
I am doing all the work myself.
Now, I don't bother you with shit, please do the same for me :)

Thanks noidea for your awesome contribution to this thread!

-Boom

Really? Because I haven't seen you do a single thing you ask help for. Be honest.

From: Kyle Undefined
Really? Because I haven't seen you do a single thing you ask help for. Be honest.

Really? Its weird how some people have to learn stuff and aren't born with this stuff.

…. No one is born with it everyOne has to learn.


Also there's been extensive talk about it

Tl;dr there are some ghetto hacky ways to kind of do it, but with sambas current capabilities there's not really good secure way to do it. And getting most of the decent ghetto hacky ways to work is just as 'hard' as gettig Simba to do it natively. So best thing to do is just wait until the people working on better secure ways to stop script souce seeing to finish their work.

Best you can do now is just have user enter user/pass and compare to a website and hide/obscure those lines of code as best you can like push them off margins and Shiz, I hear most ideas about hiding stuff in plugins won't work too well.

Why not just have the scripts held say AES encrypted in designated server. Once users authenticates themselves, server sends heavily obfuscated AES encrypted script back along with key which Simba then runs. Encryption is needed so that it wouldn't be that easy to find out the source with packet sniffers for instance.

Of course its possible to find out the script with debugger, but it's not that easy. Also, new version of Simba needs to be made so that the secured scripts itself cannot be ran in old versions of Simba, but only in the new one.

From: Dynamite
Really? Its weird how some people have to learn stuff and aren't born with this stuff.

Here are three examples right off the top of my head:
1) http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67574
2) http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69439
3) http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70652

Oh, not to mention the countless ideas you PM me on IRC about. Like the Xbox Gamertag grabber.

Really, everything you ask help for can be done spending an hour playing with it.

From: Kyle Undefined
Here are three examples right off the top of my head:
1) http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67574
2) http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69439
3) http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70652

Oh, not to mention the countless ideas you PM me on IRC about. Like the Xbox Gamertag grabber.

Really, everything you ask help for can be done spending an hour playing with it.

1) I spent a good few months on what I had done so far, I just couldn't do the final part. So I wanted someone to finish it so that the community could use them. Sorry, I won't help any more.

2) Umm, you have no clue what it was even about.

3) Yes, I didn't know how to so I asked.

The countless ideas? what the final number of 2!

Again, sorry I don't have your knowledge almighty one.

-Boom

From: Kyle Undefined
Here are three examples right off the top of my head:
1) http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67574
2) http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69439
3) http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70652

Oh, not to mention the countless ideas you PM me on IRC about. Like the Xbox Gamertag grabber.

Really, everything you ask help for can be done spending an hour playing with it.

first off, i'm calling you out for calling me out in another thread.
you're being oxymoronic now. but i still love you<3

From: Dynamite
1) I spent a good few months on what I had done so far, I just couldn't do the final part. So I wanted someone to finish it so that the community could use them. Sorry, I won't help any more.

2) Umm, you have no clue what it was even about.

3) Yes, I didn't know how to so I asked.

The countless ideas? what the final number of 2!

Again, sorry I don't have your knowledge almighty one.

-Boom

"boom boom boom, i want you in my room, so we can spend the night together, together in my room"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llyiQ4I-mcQ

Now that we have a lighter mood, you two need to relax <3

Don't worry about it, if I am that much of a pain in your ass Kyle, see you later man.

<3 the rest of SRL.

From: Dynamite
1) I spent a good few months on what I had done so far, I just couldn't do the final part. So I wanted someone to finish it so that the community could use them. Sorry, I won't help any more.

2) Umm, you have no clue what it was even about.

3) Yes, I didn't know how to so I asked.

The countless ideas? what the final number of 2!

Again, sorry I don't have your knowledge almighty one.

-Boom

1) Yeah, I finished the code for you, and made it work. I made it shitty code and you still haven't even changed how it works. Also, when you released it, you didn't mention anything about credits to who actually built it.

2) Um, yeah I do, you don't remember PM'ing me asking for help? It's your silly little forum, which can be found here, and I specifically told you I wouldn't help you unless I received confirmation for a higher up stating that what the forum contains is allowed. You didn't even respond after that, so that raises an eyebrow.

3) Spending an hour on it would of been all you needed to do, you would of actually learned some useful skills needed in jobs. It's called problem solving.

I don't know everything, never stated I did, I just actually try something and play with it before asking for help.

/done with this.

From: Kyle Undefined
1) Yeah, I finished the code for you, and made it work. I made it shitty code and you still haven't even changed how it works. Also, when you released it, you didn't mention anything about credits to who actually built it.

2) Um, yeah I do, you don't remember PM'ing me asking for help? It's your silly little forum, which can be found here, and I specifically told you I wouldn't help you unless I received confirmation for a higher up stating that what the forum contains is allowed. You didn't even respond after that, so that raises an eyebrow.

3) Spending an hour on it would of been all you needed to do, you would of actually learned some useful skills needed in jobs. It's called problem solving.

I don't know everything, never stated I did, I just actually try something and play with it before asking for help.

/done with this.

1) yes you did finish it for me, yes i haven't updated it. I said once you had finished, "Thanks man, I will credit you when I post it." your response was "No don't worry man, no credit needed." Don't try and bullshit your way through this.

2) I did respond after, I said I will get Markus to PM you. I PMed him on SRL and he didn't reply, however I have permission from Wizzup and Markus to do my own thing.

3) Ok maybe I could have, but I didn't.

Oh please don't go, I am starting to have fun :)

-Boom

If you guys could please consider taking this to pms, that would be great, thanks :).

From: cause
If you guys could please consider taking this to pms, that would be great, thanks :).

This ^

Flaming in threads <> cool. :p