SRL Archive - Senior Discussions and Debates

Lets have a mature talk about this shiz, it's been popping its head up all over the place.
People offering to pay for scripts, membership, leaking scripts, writing scripts, etc.
It's no secret there is a lot of money to be made with all of our talent here.
I know many of you are against it, and I understand, but it's been made clear that Wizzup himself is indifferent/doesn't mind as long as he gets a small cut or something like that :p and we don't involve this site/srl too much with the selling site.

I say us SSRL/Staff go for it and make a clean legit site for script sales.
Markus is kind of sort of already working on one.

I just say this because I don't want a bunch of nobodies making sites like this and stealing people's work, re branding and selling scripts, etc etc too much fishy business.

Um, ya blah, idk my point but I say IF a sale site exists for Simba/SRL it BETTER be one made by the people who SHOULD BE running it and not random nobodies who will be un-legit and possibly sullly our good name!

Like I said Markus is kinda working on this already maybe he can care to discuss and get help from us or somethang?

Like I said open-ended thread I don't know my point 100% but ya.

As long as its not advertised here or pushed in your face, then I see no issue with it. It just doesn't belong here, on these forums.

Yes, as long as it's official from staff members here. Should the announcement, of such a site, become public here I'd like to strongly point out I'll be keeping damn close tabs on other Runescape cheating sites. I'm a veteran member everywhere, and if I come across stolen work being leaked or sold then I'll be the first to know.

Yeah even if you're against it, it IS going to be done by all kinds of people, so rather it be done by the PROPER people than nobodies.

Stop all of the random rouge sites created purely for gain and profit, and let is be handled but he people who SHOULD BE handling it and properly!
Auth, Obfuscation, and CHECKING to see all scripts are up to par and ORIGINAL.

It's one thing to have an idea, it's another to actually get it done. Who here has the knowledge and time to proper set up something like this?

Likely, no one.

WE DO! I'm sure among us many have web dev skills to get something like this done for sure!

From: YoHoJo
WE DO! I'm sure among us many have web dev skills to get something like this done for sure!

Well I simple forum or something of the sort, maybe, but probably not if you want to get into auths. If it were me, I'd have the seller PM/email the users after the payment is received.

I'm talking about like ways to make sure the scripts are not shared? You? Wat?

From: YoHoJo
I'm talking about like ways to make sure the scripts are not shared? You? Wat?

That's not possible. No matter which way it's done, they can always be shared.

Meh yeah, but we can do things to try and stop it.
Obfuscate and require a user/pass to run it, which can only be used at one IP at a time.
Shiz like that.

You can make it pretty hard to share scripts.
I have the knowledge but not the time to do it.

Anyone who wants to help around with, here a few modifications that need to be made to Simba:
First, you need to be able to dump the bytecode. That's easy. The TPSThread (or whatever it is called) has an option CompileOnly, set it to true and it will only compile a script, not run it. After that, the pascalscript object holds the bytecode somewhere.
Save that bytecode to a file (really easy). Boom, compiled script. No one here knows how to disassemble that crap so it's relatively safe.
Second part, running the bytecode. It's also, just create the pascalscript object (Simba does that), assign bytecode then call .execute; Boom, your script runs. It's quite resilient and works across multiple computers and such. Just keep track of which plugins you have to load, else you get runtime errors.
Scriptmanager: part of it is done. Make it ask for user/password so it can auth to a server and retrieve list of bought scripts, and for player info too (make a new function in simba GetPlayerInfo or w/ever which the script calls).

Serverside: I was told Wizzup could do that. It needs to auth users then supply scripts on demand. Also, the compiling Simba needs to be made a cmd-line app so I can run it as a cronjob on every SRL update (SRL gets compiled into the script). I got reliable hosting and physical access to the server.

Happy new year!

From: YoHoJo
Meh yeah, but we can do things to try and stop it.
Obfuscate and require a user/pass to run it, which can only be used at one IP at a time.
Shiz like that.

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. No one here has the knowledge and time to properly set something like that up.

It would be easier to setup your own personal webpage to sell scripts. Not a bad idea if you ask me. :p Kind of like Govind did at Sythe.

Byam Markus got's all of this planned out, Wizzup too! Just need people to help with it, which I can TRY with my limited knowledge :[

From: Coh3n
It would be easier to setup your own personal webpage to sell scripts. Not a bad idea if you ask me. :p Kind of like Govind did at Sythe.

Ha, I'm building him a site now for his PIN selling! :p

Again, having plans is one thing, actually doing it is another. I would help too, but I don't have any knowledge in this area, and as much as I'd like to sell some of my scripts, I'd rather work on further developing SRL.

I created a simple, strong and expandable auth system a while ago. But, if I were to sell a script, I'd rather host the authorisation system myself off-site.

Will we have middle-man's (SSRL+) to manage the sales?

Don't even need middle men?
They pay, and the automatically get an generated auth/passowrd/whatever and download for the script. Something like that.
And they have a user/login for the 'modified Simba' to which they log in, and enter their info in order to download the scipt

/all talk and ideas :p

You said Markus and Wizzup? have everything planned out. I'm interested to see these plans and how they would work with regards to payment. What percentage actually goes to the script author? What percentage (if any) goes to Wizzup? or the website? Does a certain percentage go elsewhere? All questions that need to be answered.

Some to Markus(I believe), some to Wizzup (for sure), rest to scripter.

As for exact #s/%s, it's not planned yet.

Just a thread to talk and discuss that exact stuff, work things out, get shiz done, get it going.
Sorry for my short, random, crazy, hyper mood, I'm in an odd mood.

From: YoHoJo
Some to Markus(I believe), some to Wizzup (for sure), rest to scripter.

As for exact #s/%s, it's not planned yet.

Just a thread to talk and discuss that exact stuff, work things out, get shiz done, get it going.
Sorry for my short, random, crazy, hyper mood, I'm in an odd mood.

Why would it go to Markus? To keep the site running? Unless it's a very small percentage, he could make quite a bit of money for something that may not require a lot of attention (unless he's the only staff member). And for Wizzup? I understand, but he's not the only developer of Simba. He's the main developer, but certainly not the only. That would be like selling MSI, and the money being given to me. I did most of the developing, but not all of it.

Why should there be a script sales site run by us? Before this, people who wanted to sell scripts just made their own site. Think of Lorax, Sumilion and Starblaster.

Why not just create a good free script and put a link up for donations?

Hmm yeah, people making their own also does seem like an okay idea.
Idk just having everything run and centralized seems more organized and nice to me.

@Chohen, I'm just blabbering! Who knows how they money should be divided!

E:
Also each individual had own site it would be hard to advertise and get it known, rather than one known site, that is safe, everything is checked to be quality etc etc and not just a bunch of random kiddies running off and making own sites with random scripts and stuff. (I guess advertising etc is your own problem though…)

Indeed it would be their own problem. This forum does not allow script selling/buying. Wouldn't it be hypocritical if we just created another forum and allow it there? Why should we be responsible for someone selling bad scripts? It's very hard to stop such a thing.

Instead, why not create a good name here, and release scripts for free? Why is everyone talking about selling scripts all of a sudden? Do you really think there are that much high quality scripts worth selling?

Reason is because Simba and RiD are the only currently functioning macros for ts, AMD the amount of people willing to pay for quality scripts is huge.

And of course quality scripts worth selling/people would be willing to pay for are possible. Hell the request section always has someone posting to pay for a script to be made, and non SRL members are always asking SRL members to leak them scripts for $ or GP.

I'm not like super for it or even 100% sure I'd sell any scripts.
Just spitting my thoughts.

There's a lot I wouldn't mind selling, but having the capabilities is another thing. I usually focus on scripts and fixing SRL. I've giving out 2 nice scripts and the smelter is causing a fluctuation in the Iron ore market (either that or chance that the price dipped when it was broke…).

Regardless if the methods for obf code and a surefire way for auths are made I will take it to my advantage. Yes I have had little donations, I might be able to get a sub with it now. XD

From: Coh3n
It's one thing to have an idea, it's another to actually get it done. Who here has the knowledge and time to proper set up something like this?

Likely, no one.

What? No one?
Are you serious? :p

Setting up a site that sells stuff is not hard at all

Personally, I'd leave the script sales for MITB, like it used to be, and keep SRL disassociated from it (script sales that is, not MITB).

From: Zyt3x
What? No one?
Are you serious? :p

Setting up a site that sells stuff is not hard at all

I said knowledge AND time. If it's that easy, I would think it would have been done by now.

Added a poll, yea question is a bit open ended and all of the details need to be ironed out as we can see from this thread, but basically would you be for a SRL(higher ups) manged script selling site?
Good point here:
http://villavu.com/forum/showpost.php?p=879020&postcount=9

Voted yes, but only if it's not advertised here. I don't mind script selling, even though I wouldn't ever sell one, so I won't try to keep people who do want to sell them, from doing so.

There was a rather nasty argument about it on #srl today. Most of the people were 1 sided, saying selling scripts is no good, not releasing sold scripts source under gpl is illegal, etc. One of the biggest issues is who is going to run the affair. Dynamite wants to push his site (Durp.me ?) pretty hard. I don't know if anyone thinks its a good idea. Of course, nothing can be done about it.

I havent made my mind up completely about script sales, but unless someone reputable manages it, you can be sure I will not be indifferent about it.

From: noidea
There was a rather nasty argument about it on #srl today. Most of the people were 1 sided, saying selling scripts is no good, not releasing sold scripts source under gpl is illegal, etc. One of the biggest issues is who is going to run the affair. Dynamite wants to push his site (Durp.me ?) pretty hard. I don't know if anyone thinks its a good idea. Of course, nothing can be done about it.

I havent made my mind up completely about script sales, but unless someone reputable manages it, you can be sure I will not be indifferent about it.

I'm all for it if SSRL+ only will manage it. I do not trust Dynamite.

From: Daniel
I'm all for it if SSRL+ only will manage it. I do not trust Dynamite.

I totally agree, on both parts, more so on the latter statement.

I think Bam Bam makes a good point. I voted yes.

I have a difficult time comprehending how if we build this site it won't be advertised on the forums. Anyone who wants to sell a script and uses this site is gonna link to it.

Also here's what I think needs to be done:

• Common Auth System >> One account to purchase scripts from various seller
• Script management type interface to show news / script update
• Some sort of feedback system so users can determine if they're purchasing a quality script
• Determine legality of this site and figure out how to protect ourselves if necessary
• Design an approval process (which may limit scamming by ensuring seller actually has a product to sell)
• Probably needs a middleman system… :/ some sellers could earn a trusted rank I imagine

To do this right seems like it's gonna be a lot of work. We also probably have members people on this forum with the graphics skills to get a decent looking site.

Lastly, this has to be convenient and trustworthy or it won't gain popularity. The last thing we need is another Sythe.

Okay so Bam Bam's argument is that if SRL members don't sell scripts, somebody else is bound to because there is a high demand for runescape scripts that isn't being met.

Now, our community has agreed that newly-registered leechers shouldn't be allowed to download the best scripts straight away. This created the high demand problem: there's lots of people who want good scripts but they can't get them cause they are not SRL members.

From here we have two choices.
1. Sell scripts, so that newly registered leechers can get the best scripts, provided they pay. This rewards people who are willing to spend money.
2. Make Jr. Members rank mean something again, so that leechers can get better scripts if they stop being leechers and learn some coding. This rewards hard work, ability and community spirit.
This thread shows there's quite a lot of support for the second option.

It really depends on what kind of community you want to be in. Do you want to be a community that rewards the willingness to pay, or do you want to be in one that rewards and encourages not leeching, hard work and knowledge (because scripts are open source.)


Also, a practical problem with script selling is that SRL is licensed under the GPL. Presumably these scripts would use SRL which means they would be required to be open source. The GPL has been held up in court, its possible the script sellers to get sued.

From: Yakman
Okay so Bam Bam's argument is that if SRL members don't sell scripts, somebody else is bound to because there is a high demand for runescape scripts that isn't being met.

Now, our community has agreed that newly-registered leechers shouldn't be allowed to download the best scripts straight away. This created the high demand problem: there's lots of people who want good scripts but they can't get them cause they are not SRL members.

From here we have two choices.
1. Sell scripts, so that newly registered leechers can get the best scripts, provided they pay. This rewards people who are willing to spend money.
2. Make Jr. Members rank mean something again, so that leechers can get better scripts if they stop being leechers and learn some coding. This rewards hard work, ability and community spirit.
This thread shows there's quite a lot of support for the second option.

It really depends on what kind of community you want to be in. Do you want to be a community that rewards the willingness to pay, or do you want to be in one that rewards and encourages not leeching, hard work and knowledge (because scripts are open source.)


Also, a practical problem with script selling is that SRL is licensed under the GPL. Presumably these scripts would use SRL which means they would be required to be open source. The GPL has been held up in court, its possible the script sellers to get sued.

If we can fix our system here to prevent a massive influx of script sales then I'm more in favor of that than building another website that has to be maintained.

Also, repairing our community ranks here is harder on gold farmers. If it works I would very much rather see no script sales. What I'm worried about is what happens when our member body decides they need them.

From: Yakman
Also, a practical problem with script selling is that SRL is licensed under the GPL. Presumably these scripts would use SRL which means they would be required to be open source. The GPL has been held up in court, its possible the script sellers to get sued.

Hm, that's an interesting point. I didn't know that.

This is a touchy topic because so many people have different opinions. I'd be shocked if someone said they've NEVER thought about selling one of their scripts. Hell, I've got a flawless superheater that I'd love to sell. Some extra cash wouldn't hurt.

That being said, I don't think having it here is a good idea. We have a reputation of being a friendly, helping community, comprised of people that aren't in it for the money. I honestly believe money just creates more problems. If someone wants to run a separate site and run the potential legal risks, go for it, I'm not against it. I just really like the way SRL is now, and I think money will damage it.

If there are a group of SSRL+ members who want to start it up, do it, just keep it away from SRL.

From: Coh3n
Hm, that's an interesting point. I didn't know that.

This is a touchy topic because so many people have different opinions. I'd be shocked if someone said they've NEVER thought about selling one of their scripts. Hell, I've got a flawless superheater that I'd love to sell. Some extra cash wouldn't hurt.

That being said, I don't think having it here is a good idea. We have a reputation of being a friendly, helping community, comprised of people that aren't in it for the money. I honestly believe money just creates more problems. If someone wants to run a separate site and run the potential legal risks, go for it, I'm not against it. I just really like the way SRL is now, and I think money will damage it.

If there are a group of SSRL+ members who want to start it up, do it, just keep it away from SRL.

I feel the same way you do. Also, I've never thought about selling my scripts, because they suck :p

From: Kyle Undefined
I feel the same way you do. Also, I've never thought about selling my scripts, because they suck :p

You've never thought, "Hey, it would be nice to make some extra cash from a script"?

Nope, lol. But I am weird, and so that is probably why. :p

I believe anyone would be tempted to make a bit of profit from their work. But you really have to understand if you sell a script then it'll be much different then than it is now, you can't just release a script one time and hope it works for everyone. You'll be committed to making sure it works correctly, it'll be your job to maintain it.

From: Yakman
Also, a practical problem with script selling is that SRL is licensed under the GPL. Presumably these scripts would use SRL which means they would be required to be open source. The GPL has been held up in court, its possible the script sellers to get sued.

Not by customers. Only the developers of SRL, namely WT-Fakawi (the SRL Leader) - the founder.

From: Yakman
Also, a practical problem with script selling is that SRL is licensed under the GPL. Presumably these scripts would use SRL which means they would be required to be open source. The GPL has been held up in court, its possible the script sellers to get sued.

Too bad SRL isn't. SRL 5 has been relicensed illegally (you'd need every single copyright holder to agree to GPL it, well that's a lot of people and I didn't give my support, nor did any of those devs that are gone for years now).

edit: everyone who has a single line of code in SRL is copyright holder thus can sue on behalf of SRL.

I haven't ether >..> tho I don't think I've made any scripts that actually got used….

Anyways, I don't really care whether or not scripts get sold, but I will help the people who do, make the system secure.

Everybody seems to want to be able to make profit from their scripts :(
http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?p=882332#post882332

Makes sense to me, like Cohen said I bet a lot of us have pondered it.
Right now with RiD and SRL being the only bots around, and a huge market of kids willing to throw $$$$ at us for scripts, who wouldn't want to take advantage of it!

I hate that kid too, Jakey can be out there, but Tickyy's attitude is annoying.

I think SSRL+ needs to step things up and get one off the ground before these kids have a chance of ruining it. How do they plan on stopping sharing? Have they even thought of that?

From: Kyle Undefined
I hate that kid too, Jakey can be out there, but Tickyy's attitude is annoying.

I think SSRL+ needs to step things up and get one off the ground before these kids have a chance of ruining it. How do they plan on stopping sharing? Have they even thought of that?

Is there really a way to completely stop sharing altogether? I don't think so. I would like to think the people that buy a script wouldn't want to share it because then people would be getting it for free when they had to pay.

You could take precautions, but there's always a chance it'll get shared.

From: Coh3n
Is there really a way to completely stop sharing altogether? I don't think so. I would like to think the people that buy a script wouldn't want to share it because then people would be getting it for free when they had to pay.

You could take precautions, but there's always a chance it'll get shared.

One way to stop it is to rely on all information used by the script (i.e variables, like color, uptext and whatever) is stored on an online database, then you have to have a User ID and Password to access the information.

From: Zyt3x
One way to stop it is to rely on all information used by the script (i.e variables, like color, uptext and whatever) is stored on an online database, then you have to have a User ID and Password to access the information.

But what about people who have dynamic IPs? Or move? Or go away for a few days?

Maybe each account could only be accessed by one IP at a time? Still wouldn't completely stop sharing, but would help.

Ha, funny you mention that, I'm actually working on a system like this.

From: Coh3n
But what about people who have dynamic IPs? Or move? Or go away for a few days?

Maybe each account could only be accessed by one IP at a time? Still wouldn't completely stop sharing, but would help.

What?

I said User ID and password, meaning a username and a password :p

From: Zyt3x
What?

I said User ID and password, meaning a username and a password :p

Oh oops. I wear you had IP in there. >.<

Well either way, a username/password can be shared, but may be less likely. Dunno. I just don't think there's any way to completely stop it.

Now there's an idea. I like it.

Basically a ID / Password to access the variables that auto load into script. I've used bot programs before that limited IP connections with one ID. This system would also be really useful to update the colors etc. so script wouldn't need so many updates in of itself.

Edit:
I know there is a way to limit IP connections. I'm sure Kyle knows heh.

Yeah Cohen there is no way to stop t 100% but tying is better than not tying.
I'm 100% sure people selling scripts will greatly hamper the amount of sales you make. If you don't want to you don't have to, but I'd try my hardes to stop it if I could.

Obfuscated, user and pass needed, limited to one IP at a time so even if they share only 1 can use at a time, and Even like other people said loads script/variables/whatever from a website too. :)

Basically, I thought of this idea as a way to keep gold farming down, but I can see how it can be used for this as well.

- User would sign up for and ID and pass.
- A function in the script gets called with the ID and pass and it calls out to a page that grabs the users IP.
- It then queries the DB with ID, pass and IP, if no results are found, it adds a record with a time stamp. (Was thinking of adding an "expiration time" to it, which would be that time + 5 hours or so.)
- If a record is found, but it's "expired", then delete it and add a new one.
- If a record is found and it's active, then stop the script from running.

Note: I added the ID idea based on this thread, my original idea was to do it by IP. So they could only access 1 script per IP at a time. But the ID idea is nice too.

Like Coh3n said, it won't keep sharing down, but it would help.

From: Kyle Undefined
Basically, I thought of this idea as a way to keep gold farming down, but I can see how it can be used for this as well.

- User would sign up for and ID and pass.
- A function in the script gets called with the ID and pass and it calls out to a page that grabs the users IP.
- It then queries the DB with ID, pass and IP, if no results are found, it adds a record with a time stamp. (Was thinking of adding an "expiration time" to it, which would be that time + 5 hours or so.)
- If a record is found, but it's "expired", then delete it and add a new one.
- If a record is found and it's active, then stop the script from running.

Note: I added the ID idea based on this thread, my original idea was to do it by IP. So they could only access 1 script per IP at a time. But the ID idea is nice too.

Like Coh3n said, it won't keep sharing down, but it would help.

With the correct things that you store in the online database you could easily make a script not usable without the correct information. As long as you can stop them from by passing that information.

A way of keeping your shit secure that I once mentioned on IRC would be to store fundamental consts of your script into a DLL, which requires an auth in order for the "getShit" functions to be called.

Example that'll keep it secure among most users:

1. User inputs auth into a GUI.
2. Obfuscated script call's DLL's GetThisandThatValue with the key as a parameter. Instead of dealing with online crap at all, it would be a better approach to store the auth algorithm in the DLL (concealed in an intelligent fashion in case someone who knows their shit comes along), so no fuckers will be wiresharking our skr3pts. Then the DLL will just check if it's possible to generate that auth with the algorithm.

Fort knox level -

1. User inputs auth to a GUI. (Or an unobbed const in the script.)
2. The auth that the user would know would be encrypted e.g auth->alg1>alg2>alg3
3. the DLL takes the encrypted key as a parameter for the necessary functions, decrypts it, and then checks it for validity.
4. new auths could be created dynamically during the script's runtime, allowing us to create "time locks". E.g

Encrypted auth "abcdef123srgrg43t43ty35y" signifies "16:52:35:SOULWARS123123". When the key is passed to the dll, the dll will check if the current time is within a second of the time in the auth. This way, even if fuckers manage to probe the script into debugging auths, they can't call the DLLs for our precious value because they'll be expired.

@n3ss3s: Why not utilise online authorisation? They'll be botting for Runescape anyway, and online game. So, they should be connected.

Your post does in no way defend online authorisation security wise, you might aswell say "I'll buy some bananas because they'll look nice, no, I'm not going to eat them" :D

A major problem with online authorisation is URL redirecting..

n3ss3s

Person pays $5 for script BananaEater that has the dll built in information access
Person gives 1000 people BananaEater and they use his authentication
1000 People use BananaEater for a total of $5

Hah good point. A reason why script talking with/accessing the web would be better, it's nice to block multiple IPs using script at same time with same auth. That way IF people share, they will have to do it at different times. I believe nexus/ibot did it this way, and tons of people still bought tons of copies of their stuff. Basically it worked pretty well on stopping it. Hell they only allowed like one instance per computer (or tried to …) and some people bought multiple copies of same script… (that's taking it a bit too far).

I was thinking, with my method, I could check to see if an IP is accessing a script, and if it is then don't allow the script to run. So, person A buys script and starts to run it, shares it with person B. Person B tries to run it but can't because person A still is running it.

From: Kyle Undefined
I was thinking, with my method, I could check to see if an IP is accessing a script, and if it is then don't allow the script to run. So, person A buys script and starts to run it, shares it with person B. Person B tries to run it but can't because person A still is running it.

We could combine the methods..

Person pays $5 for script BananaEater that has the dll built in information access
Person gives 1000 people BananaEater and they use his authentication
1000 People use BananaEater for a total of $5

Oh shit. My method prevents it from being cracked, but the auth can be used by any amount of people -.- Online auth it is

Hehe yeah. Combination of your method + online for one Ip only check would be ideal!

I agree, a combination of the two would be all that's needed :)

From: YoHoJo
Hehe yeah. Combination of your method + online for one Ip only check would be ideal!

From: Kyle Undefined
I agree, a combination of the two would be all that's needed :)

I second this. Or in this case, third it.

I say we allow script sales because it will encourage development which is very much needed around here as development is mostly stagnant (save lape).

Then perhaps once we have an active development community, we can agree to either tone down or eliminate script sales for the good of SRL.

From: lordsaturn
I say we allow script sales because it will encourage development which is very much needed around here as development is mostly stagnant (save lape).

Then perhaps once we have an active development community, we can agree to either tone down or eliminate script sales for the good of SRL.

One of the main reasons against that is because of the possible legal action Jagex could take against us.

From: Coh3n
One of the main reasons against that is because of the possible legal action Jagex could take against us.

Would they likely target SRL/Simba itself or the script developers?

Possibly the group responsible for taking the money.

As much as I'd like to sell my scripts, SRL has always been about being free and open source. I think it should stay that way.

I believe it always will stay just the same, just as I've said in the past anyone here trying to sell scripts I'll do my best to duplicate and release publicly.

What we're discussing is off-site selling of scripts, no connections to this community at all. Not even advertising.

From: Flight
What we're discussing is off-site selling of scripts, no connections to this community at all. Not even advertising.

That's not quite the case, trying to separate sales from us would be stupid (and impossible, nothing prevents whoever wants to from saying "KickassColorBot scripts are actually Simba scripts, check out villavu.com) as our main source of trust is the fact that we've been around for something close to 10 years by now…

From: Flight
I believe it always will stay just the same, just as I've said in the past anyone here trying to sell scripts I'll do my best to duplicate and release publicly.

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I suggest you get a head start.

Where is that script list from?
Reflection ones don't count right now :p

I don't mind helping people (or SRL) get script sales off the ground. I just don't want it carried over (or advertised) here. I know it's near impossible to keep them separated, but keeping it from being advertised here is easy.

One thing I do not understand is why people want to separate villavu.com and the script sales… Someone elaborate please?

Because we are assuming that JAGEX can come after us with legal issues if we sell here. Besides that, I don't know.

From: YoHoJo
Because we are assuming that JAGEX can come after us with legal issues if we sell here. Besides that, I don't know.

Okay, so let's find out if they can before settling if we want to have them separate? :)

How could we find out? Only way is to try and see :p? And then get owned by the law?
Best to just keep it safe from the start?

From: YoHoJo
How could we find out? Only way is to try and see :p? And then get owned by the law?
Best to just keep it safe from the start?

What, lol? No of course there's ways to find out if there is grounds to file a lawsuit against villavu if we do this other than try and see :p

Hmm. I actually don't think they can…

Only reason they could lawsuit the other bots is because reflection is illegal, we do nothing illegal here…. so wtf? We all safe.

Let's just do it all here then?! Why not… save the confusion and stuff.

Most people would like to see script sales (just look at the poll), but those same people said not at SRL.

Ultimately, it's up to Wizzup? and Fakawi, and I can almost guarantee they'll say not at SRL.

From: n3ss3s
That's not quite the case, trying to separate sales from us would be stupid (and impossible, nothing prevents whoever wants to from saying "KickassColorBot scripts are actually Simba scripts, check out villavu.com) as our main source of trust is the fact that we've been around for something close to 10 years by now…

Wrong. People won't give two thoughts about how long we've been around, they just want working bots. An amateur color bot called 'JBot' was literally just recently released. Absolutely nothing special about it, and so far it has the ability to click on a green ivy vine on Runescape. People everywhere were curious about this 'bot', their servers were flooded with people flocking to their site. Why? Because it's something that works (if even that). They care about usability, not how long your community has been around.

From: n3ss3s

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I suggest you get a head start.

That list doesn't mean a thing mate and you know you it. This is, I'm guessing, from a previous reflection bot. You know how much impact that same bot has now? 0. Seems to me you're just getting upset that people will, atleast, attempt to make scripts that you, n3ss3s, are making to feed your pockets. Well you better get used to it, and you can go on ahead and dislike me, I couldn't care less, either way I'll try to the best of my ability to do what I said I would. So maybe you should get a head start.

From: YoHoJo
Hmm. I actually don't think they can…

Only reason they could lawsuit the other bots is because reflection is illegal, we do nothing illegal here…. so wtf? We all safe.

Let's just do it all here then?! Why not… save the confusion and stuff.

Reflection wasn't breaking the law if I'm right in saying, as it doesn't edit the client in any way. The law was that you can't distribute a modified version of the client, which we did not, that was all the BCEL/ASM bots.

In terms of script sales, I'm not entirely sure where the law stands on that issue, but I don't see how it is anything but a breach of ToS (which macroing is anyway, so we're hardly innocent there). But, as far as I'm aware, selling scripts which simply read colours and control the mouse is a completely legal practice.

Richard, talk to PyroRyan he knows all about it.
All reflection bots ceased developing exactly because Jagex was threatening them with legal issues.
Lots of them got warnings and the Snellman brothers (Nexus makers) have dealt with a lot of legal stuff too.

Genuinely didn't realise that. I thought they were throwing the fact that they had modified the client and then distributed it. What reasoning did they give for bringing legal issues on reflection bots?

I think it was because they were making money off of something that broke their ToS. I'm not sure, but that's the only logical explanation.

From: Richard
Genuinely didn't realise that. I thought they were throwing the fact that they had modified the client and then distributed it. What reasoning did they give for bringing legal issues on reflection bots?

That's a good question. I was told the same thing by PyroRyan as you, YoHoJo, I just didn't get the specifics I guess.

@Kyle:
If that's true, wouldn't they do as much as possible to directly confront gold sellers?

PyryRyan knows a lot of the ins/outs of ALL of the big reflection bots, legal issues, etc he himself has stopped developing/hooking/etc due to legal crap he says.

We just use color though, should be no legal problems. I wouldn't mind this being SRL OR another site, whatever works best.

Like I said, I really don't know :p I think it would be better actually knowing if it can harm us before we make the plunge.

What we are (a colour bot), and where Villavu is based (the Netherlands), I highly doubt legal action could occur.

EDIT: Even look at RiD, no threats from Jagex as of yet and they've been selling for quite a while.

From: Daniel
What we are (a colour bot), and where Villavu is based (the Netherlands), I highly doubt legal action could occur.

EDIT: Even look at RiD, no threats from Jagex as of yet and they've been selling for quite a while.

That's true, I didn't even think about that. They've been selling usage for a long time and nothing has come their way.

Yeah true that.
But Wizzup Fakawi I think really don't want sales here, so even if legal things are not a problem, they might not want it here.

….sigh
My point is this: JaGeX can not sue us for selling text files (scripts) written for a program. It's like as if JaGeX would sue you for using Lazarus. It's bizarre.

1. The program (Simba) is not specifically designed to bot on RuneScape.
2. The program (Simba) cannot really be linked to RuneScape in any way (other than rs_GetUpText, but that's just an OCR, nothing illegal. Same with the other rs_)
3. If they would sue anything it would be SMART, since that is the only direct link between Simba and RuneScape, but since SMART does nothing illegal (It's simply loading the client) that wouldn't hold grounds in court.
4. ????
5. Profit! (Literally)

The only thing they might have against us is that we leverage the name RuneScape® to generate sales.

That list doesn't mean a thing mate and you know you it. This is, I'm guessing, from a previous reflection bot. You know how much impact that same bot has now? 0. Seems to me you're just getting upset that people will, atleast, attempt to make scripts that you, n3ss3s, are making to feed your pockets. Well you better get used to it, and you can go on ahead and dislike me, I couldn't care less, either way I'll try to the best of my ability to do what I said I would. So maybe you should get a head start.

Your first sentences made no sense, by pasting that list I implied that it's not feasible for a single person (or two) to be some sort of a script hero running around in tights rewriting payscripts all night…

Seems to me you're just getting upset that people will, atleast, attempt to make scripts that you, n3ss3s, are making to feed your pockets.

If I make a script I make it just to see a bunch of 12 year olds going "pmfg get n3s33ss3 soulwares!!!1", not because it might pay for a monitor after 20 years…

Question:

So from what I understand, plugins are just pascal code put into a .dll form or something like that?
Also by just having the .dll and not the source, you can't see the code inside of it?

Assuming those two are true how about:

Let's take my powerminer for example, and pull out a key function, let's say the dropping function.

Now we make the dropping function into a .dll form and ALSO inside of the dropping function I put A check for User/Pass (which will be in consts on the script).

So unless the user/pass read from the consts doesn't match with a website or whatever , the script will go no further.


Also can't we just make our entire script's .dlls and just have user settings within the actual simba itself? What's the problem with that? I assume the source of .dlls can still be seen somehow?

You don't have access to the functions in the script, so you'll need to create a mouse function for your library. You can't directly translate the source of the dll back, it's just like an executable.

You could also just use the bytecode.. http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70987

2deep4me I dont understand that thread sorry :/.
Is your answer pretty much yes?

I just want something mostly secure that an average-script-buying-Joe can't bypass, but setup and use.

So just shove key functions with auth check into a plugin, give user plugin and script, have functions compare user/pass to online database, good enough? Sound fine/doable currently without any extra work/modifying? :)

I answered multiple questions, some yes, some no :p
This quote comes to mind, though:

From: Markus
And that's why he fails, he has NO CLUE on what he's doing whatsoever ;)

Do you really think you should do this if you're not sure how and if it works?

I'm doing nothing right now so that's fine. What I say is: The Man/Dynamite/Boom has no clue on what he's doing, he just asks (actually dumb) questions.
Compiled scripts work, Ray and I did that 4 years ago with a test project ('griepje', basically a remote controllable RAT).

@ nie I can write quality sellable scripts, I just want to know how to keep them relatively safe is all.

@markus, what did you do to keep your RAT script 'closed source'?


Does the plugin idea seem relatively safe from the average Joe?

@ nie I can write quality sellable scripts, I just want to know how to keep them relatively safe is all.

@markus, what did you do to keep your RAT script 'closed source'?


Does the plugin idea seem relatively safe from the average Joe?

From: YoHoJo
@ nie I can write quality sellable scripts, I just want to know how to keep them relatively safe is all.
Does the plugin idea seem relatively safe from the average Joe?

My point is not that you cannot write quality scripts, my point is that you have very limited knowledge on how to protect it. The plugin idea is very good, but so is bytecode.

From: Markus
I'm doing nothing right now so that's fine. What I say is: The Man/Dynamite/Boom has no clue on what he's doing, he just asks (actually dumb) questions.
Compiled scripts work, Ray and I did that 4 years ago with a test project ('griepje', basically a remote controllable RAT).

My post wasn't directed at you ;) I just put the quote there, because it seems to me like YoHoJo is asking pretty similar questions. Not trying to offend you YoHoJo, but that's just how I feel. Perhaps you should consider to let someone else handle the obfuscating part. I know c0de helped Sumilion and Lorax with their script authorization. He also created something for The Claw and me, I believe.

Yeah I gotcha. I have no experience with it so no need to jump on in and trying to get it work :p.

I just want to get some script sales up and going while the demand is so high and there is such little competition.

How are scripts/code turned into plusgins? I remember in some SPS thread Marpis posted Simba code and harry turned it into a dll.

So can I just like as an example post 3 functions, let's say xwait, xfindcolor, and xfinddtm and somone can turn them into a dll, and I can use them in my script like normally?

The easiest way to create libraries is using FreePascal, the same language Simba is written in. It looks like Simba code, but is slightly different. You can use functions in your script from the library, but you cannot use functions from your script in the library. You can, however, use the Simba source in your library. So you can, for example, create xFindColor, but you cannot create xMMouse (which calls SRL's MMouse).

Bytecode is a representation of a script in codes (similar to an executable). This is a one way conversion, so you cannot retrieve the exact same source from which you compiled it. Try out the snippet that dgby posted and see what it looks like.

Although probably simple, I don't understand his thread.
As in how to use it, 'turn my script into bytocode', and run it etc.
Also does this mean I will need a form for my script? Or can I leave const/declareplayers alone and make core of script bytecode?

From: YoHoJo
Although probably simple, I don't understand his thread.
As in how to use it, 'turn my script into bytocode', and run it etc.
Also does this mean I will need a form for my script? Or can I leave const/declareplayers alone and make core of script bytecode?

Drag your script on top of the executable you download.

From: Daniel
Drag your script on top of the executable you download.

Or use cmd (if you're using windows that is) and do "project.exe -f scriptpath.simba -s scriptbytecode.exe"