SRL Archive - Senior Discussions and Debates

From: idoxtc
The script I'm looking for is a simple "Ghoul" fighter. (Ghouls are west of "Canifis" and north of "Morytania" swamp)
A script that fights ghouls until out of food, then runs to bank (in canifis) withdraws 28 "food" runs back to ghouls and so on.

Things it doesn't have to have.

• Prayer
• Special attack
• pick up (any item)

Things it must have!

• Good anti randoms
• anti bans
• ability to run to bank and restock on food
• ability to find its way back to ghouls if it accidentally mis clicks.

Thats is basically it. I don't think I'm asking for much, anyways I WILL BE DONATING and it would be really appreciated.
Those interested comment below.

At first, OP said he is paying rs gold for someone who makes him this script. I understand rs gold is not real money, but he is talking about big numbers. 100 million gold can be sold for 50-60 dollars! He was openly buying a script.

YoHoJo did not see that kind of payment ($60USD worth of gold) as a real payment, so he modified the script to use the word "donate" instead. So now the kind man is "donating" $60USD worth of gold to someone who writes a script that he needs.

I propose a slight adjustment to the rules and regulations:
http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6964

Selling: No Script Selling at SRL. No Script Buying at SRL. No buying/selling of any RL goods outside of the (members only) black market. Offering donations in RuneScape gold or real life goods or money for a script is considered script buying.

If the resulting script is made public, it is donating and not selling. If the resulting script stays private, it is selling. There was no real explicit selling going on here, it was more of a bounty.

You're not irked at me are you marpis?

From: YoHoJo
You're not irked at me are you marpis?

I don't want to encourage people to write scripts in hopes of profit. I honestly believe that's the first step towards real script sales. No script writer should get a taste of profit from their scripts, otherwise they'll like it and want to profit from all their scripts.

I still think the thread was against the rules and that you should have seen that. As long as the "No script selling/buying"- rule stays as it is, my opinion will not change.

—

I want unianimous opinion from staff. Is offering donations for scripters considered offering payment?


EDIT: I think this is a very relevant subject of discussion, since there has been lots of discussion about wheter we will allow script sales.

I'd like script sale of SRL scripts, but does it belong here? I'm not sure about that..

I don't see anyhthing wrong with having a donate button on a publicly released script thread. Yes talking about you yohojo :p but straight script sales are out of the question.

From: BraK
I don't see anyhthing wrong with having a donate button on a publicly released script thread. Yes talking about you yohojo :p but straight script sales are out of the question.

I agree with both.

I've had a few people offer to donate money twords Naturez. If need be I could make it clear, when releasing scripts, that if they're so anxious to pay for scripts they could simply take even a fraction of that and donate it people like Fakawi who keep the site running.

That or the money go to the AntiRandoms developers. :p

From: BraK
I don't see anyhthing wrong with having a donate button on a publicly released script thread. Yes talking about you yohojo :p but straight script sales are out of the question.

That will lead to big 'Donate to me for my hard work' lines in people's threads and sigs. It always has on any forums that has allowed it.

As for script sales - I am unsure. It will have negative affects on the community, it will have positive affects on innovation (and will be kept closed source!). If someone wrote a surefire method like RSBuddy's (which Markus is working on?), and it was kept on a whole other website - such as scripts.villavu.com - with payment methods, discussion forums, etc, it might work out.

I don't want it on this website, these forums. Just no - it has the potential to change too much.

From: noidea
I don't want it on this website, these forums. Just no - it has the potential to change too much.

No one wants this. Don't worry about that.
A donate button in main post of the script thread is fine with me, as you can clearly see the relation between work/donation. In signatures and other posts, it is just begging.

We can make a set button.

Add a post editor thing like the

 or [ SIMBA] codes but call it [ DONATE] and they have to use that only. Then we will have a set standard.

A donation button sounds ok to me too. What I was worried about here is talking about donations before the scripts even exists.

From: marpis
A donation button sounds ok to me too. What I was worried about here is talking about donations before the scripts even exists.

Same here. I really don't want to see people posting on script request threads "donate to me and I'll make it", or "I am making it, but I haven't got any donations so I'm not motivated". If we are to allow donations, I think such 'begging' posts should be infractable.

They would be infractable as it would constitute sales. use the Selling/ buying or posting wares. infraction. I would go straight to infractions after maybe one warning and editing the post.

From: BraK
They would be infractable as it would constitute sales.

I disagree. If I get 20m then release script to public, nothing really got sold, right? There is some kind of distinguishment there..

We are talking about begging for or requiring donations to write the script.

E: I see it the same as begging for rep….

Which is not the same as offering donations, which is what OP is about.

Read up a couple post about where the convo is now. :p

I'm trying to get it back on track. We are now at payscripts which we already decided will be kicked out of SRL and will never be here.

There is a big difference between having to pay to download a script and download a script and donate money if you feel like it. The first is called business, the second is called friendliness :p

And lets not acccept donations pre-release… after all, a person might not release anything at all…… if donations are to be accepted this is.

~RM

From: Sir R. M8gic1an
And lets not acccept donations pre-release… after all, a person might not release anything at all…… if donations are to be accepted this is.

~RM

That's where we were no Donations prior to releasing the script. You can have a donate button on your scripts page pointing to a paypal account. To me that acceptable. No begging for donations before release.

Begging, ok. But offering? We still have no stance on that.

Offering how so. If you mean offering to make a script for a donation then that the same as sales.

From: BraK
That's where we were no Donations prior to releasing the script. You can have a donate button on your scripts page pointing to a paypal account. To me that acceptable. No begging for donations before release.

^ I do this. I haven't seen any begging from the scripters asking for donations? I've only seen it from the leechers (a lot). You should see my PM box…

"I pay 30m if someone makes a sorcerrers garden script"

pay != donate

The problem I see is that if we do start selling, then scripters will most likely only pay attention to requests which have a $$ sign next to it. And I don't think that's the best way..

RiD goes for $10 / Auth. With shitloads of users, just like did RSBot and the whatnots. One of the reasons SRL never got that much into pay scripts, after reflection / injection bots came around was that we were mostly scripters, and those with the cash wanted ref bots.

Now we're the only ones out there. Money will be an issue. It'll be brought here whether we want it or not ; Leechers will be more than happy to use our extended base of free scripts, but there are scripts we just wouldn't build, were there not a market of users for it.

We'll have to sort something out eventually, cus the evil, friendship wrecking, enslaving $$ is coming towards us. And hell, I wouldn't mind riding a big wave of that.

~RM

I've just been considering the mechanics of it.
On the question of when payment/donation happens.

1. Donation happens as soon as the script is posted
problem: the script might be unstable and buggy, you only find this out after a period of time.

2. Donations happen after a period of time to test the script is stable
problem: "length of time" would be arbitrary, would it be 5 days? 6 days? 2 weeks? or we could allow the donator to choose the time. Which could lead to "I'll pay you next week, let me test it some more" unto infinitum.


by the way, i hope you realise this move would be a fundamental shift. From volunteering to payment. Doesn't matter that the payment may be erratic and unpredictable. Street buskers get paid in exactly the same way but over a day they know the average take-home pay.

This lecture is highly relevant to the current topic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc

If I decide to make a script paid in the first place, I'm going to make it paid…

What do you mean?

N3ss3s I fixed it for you. added on sythe.org :)

From: BraK
N3ss3s I fixed it for you. added on sythe.org :)

That's not fixing thats abusing your powers, besides sythe is a shit place, so not really fixing at all…

-RM

I'm a firm believer in No script sales at Villavu this has always been true.

From: BraK
I'm a firm believer in No script sales at Villavu this has always been true.

There might be a correlation between the long history of no script sales (I guess people don't count Lorax/Sumilion's wcer and SB's essminer although I'm pretty sure you were able to buy them here just as well as at sythe) and the fact that we've usually had max 5-10 100% stable scripts around…

Are you suggesting that pay scripts will increase the quality of scripts?
Please provide evidence for this claim.

The youtube video I linked to above shows evidence against. Paying people for difficult cognitive tasks actually reduces the quality.

I don't think pay scripts should be allowed. I do think that adding a "Donate" button to your script page is fine. That way, the people can test/use the script before, and can donate if they feel like it.

With paid scripts, you have to pay and the script may be horrible.

From: n3ss3s
There might be a correlation between the long history of no script sales (I guess people don't count Lorax/Sumilion's wcer and SB's essminer although I'm pretty sure you were able to buy them here just as well as at sythe) and the fact that we've usually had max 5-10 100% stable scripts around…

They were not sold here, because they weren't allowed. They were only sold over at MoparIsTheBest for such reasons.

From: Yakman
1. Donation happens as soon as the script is posted
problem: the script might be unstable and buggy, you only find this out after a period of time.

It's a donation, though. If the person decides to donate, I would think they know it's a good product first. The donation also may help further development to get rid of the bugs.

From: Yakman

2. Donations happen after a period of time to test the script is stable
problem: "length of time" would be arbitrary, would it be 5 days? 6 days? 2 weeks? or we could allow the donator to choose the time. Which could lead to "I'll pay you next week, let me test it some more" unto infinitum.

Again, it's a donation. The user doesn't have to donate, so there shouldn't be a defined time of when they would pay. If they said they're going to donate, the scripter should assume that person is lying until they've actually received a donation. Also, a scripter shouldn't be making a script for the donations, although, that's probably what would happen.

I like the idea of an optional donate button on script threads. If done an regulated properly, I think it could really work.

From: n3ss3s
There might be a correlation between the long history of no script sales (I guess people don't count Lorax/Sumilion's wcer and SB's essminer although I'm pretty sure you were able to buy them here just as well as at sythe) and the fact that we've usually had max 5-10 100% stable scripts around…

Of course there would be more awesome and epic scripts in SRL if we allowed to sell them, but is that what we want?
I think most of us want to keep the open-source-everything-is-free attitude. This is a hobby after all. I do understand people who'd want to sell their scripts here, we all want money, but I'm quite sure most of us want to keep SRL apart from profitable jobs.

From: marpis
Of course there would be more awesome and epic scripts in SRL if we allowed to sell them, but is that what we want?
I think most of us want to keep the open-source-everything-is-free attitude. This is a hobby after all. I do understand people who'd want to sell their scripts here, we all want money, but I'm quite sure most of us want to keep SRL apart from profitable jobs.

I'm considering having donations in my next script. 15% towards SRL and the rest to a car for my future. I hope that's okay? :S

I don't have a problem with a donation link in the thread, nor do I have a problem with script selling. However, script selling should not be here, at all. It will bring unwanted attention, and can be used against us. I don't even like the idea of another site for script selling, cause it can be linked to us.

If its FOSS and its obvious that its going towards work time not profit, aka. an actual donation, then I'm completely torn. :(

I don't see how a donate button could hurt anyone. Only if the writer is trying to guilt people into donating, like "don't forget to donate!" or something like that.
Also a huge text "DONATE HERE!!!" is kinda lame, but a simple button, those that PayPal provides, are totally ok.

The title of this thread only relates to that kinds of donations I showed in the 1st post.

I don't think that script selling in itself would be a problem, but in specific relation to this case, I don't see why asking someone to write a script for money is bad because I dont see it as the same thing as the other way around (asking for money to make a script).

The difference between payment and donation in this case would be whether or not the maker releases the script to the public after the guy pays him for it. To me that would be between the buyer and the maker to decide. Granted making it clear that SRL wont have any part in disputes over bought scripts would have to be clear as a rule, but other than that and the fact that once made, the script couldn't be sold to other people here on the forums. I can't really think of a good reason why a system like that wouldnt work. It wouldn't even have any adverse effects and it wouldn't actually be different from what just happened. It would just allow someone (officially) to take that person up on their offer for payment.

From: Dan Cardin
I don't think that script selling in itself would be a problem, but in specific relation to this case, I don't see why asking someone to write a script for money is bad because I dont see it as the same thing as the other way around (asking for money to make a script).

The difference between payment and donation in this case would be whether or not the maker releases the script to the public after the guy pays him for it. To me that would be between the buyer and the maker to decide. Granted making it clear that SRL wont have any part in disputes over bought scripts would have to be clear as a rule, but other than that and the fact that once made, the script couldn't be sold to other people here on the forums. I can't really think of a good reason why a system like that wouldnt work. It wouldn't even have any adverse effects and it wouldn't actually be different from what just happened. It would just allow someone (officially) to take that person up on their offer for payment.

How are we going to stay uninvolved when people begin to complain about someone breaching the terms of their 'contract'. Odds are they're going to come back to use looking for help and justice when somebody goes and does something with a 'paid' script that they aren't supposed to like resell it to another community.

I'm not sure if it's clear what I'm trying to say, but I think that with an unmoderated system someone is going to come to us with hurt feelings.

Also, if we decide to endorse script sales as a community we have a potential revenue stream for paying server bills. If I were running the system I would set a fee to have a script placed on the market. The script would then be subject to a review period and if it were to pass quality assurance placed on the market. I think the associated fee would force people to submit only very high quality scripts for reviews.

The thing that bothers me if there is a fee is that it might prevent some people from even making it to the script market.

Just some ideas,
-Bam Bam

I'd say sure, allow a donate button on the thread, but I think we would have to be very clear on not allowing donation buttons to be larger than a certain size, in sigs, on profiles etc…although it would seem like a lot of rules up front, it could save us a lot of hassle down the line with people constantly pushing the boundaries. In my opinion this would increase the number of stable scripts and how much they get updated, because personally, I would keep updating a script I get income from (negligible or not).