Another post at Runescape
onilika
2011-11-09 13:12:05
Hi everyone,
As most of you know, Bot Nuke Day has been a resounding success, with 98% of bots removed from the game, and we’ve struck a crippling blow to gold farmers. The overwhelmingly positive feedback and noticeable improvement to RuneScape has been truly tremendous. In addition to the various technological measures Jagex recently implemented, many of you will be aware that Jagex has for some time been engaged in a number of legal procedures aimed at stopping bot developers and the most serious bot users. These legal procedures have been the subject of a significant amount of speculation, which we will attempt to address in this post.
Some third party bot websites have been making various statements alleging that Jagex is doing a number of things that are unlawful or dishonest in some way or the other. We cannot comment on everything that is said in real time despite our deep desire to keep you abreast of matters as we need to be careful not to compromise our strong legal position.
To be very clear - a lot of things that have been said, and that will continue to be said about Jagex in relation to legal matters, are untrue. Third parties making these statements are, quite simply, trying to portray themselves in a positive light or desperately instil some sort of confidence into their rapidly dwindling supporter base by trying to suggest that Jagex is somehow acting dishonestly or unlawfully. This isn’t the case at all. In fact, the Court found that Jagex had not engaged in any unlawful actions in ruling in Jagex’s favour in the most recent series of such allegations raised by these parties. Jagex takes its lawful and ethical obligations extremely seriously and would never knowingly do something dishonest or unlawful. Remember, that some of these statements are coming from people that offer a “No Ban Guarantee” with their bots, a guarantee which we all know is untrue.
Are you suing IBOT?
Absolutely. Jagex is engaged in ongoing legal proceedings against the developers of IBOT – with formal proceedings being initiated in the US (Massachusetts) some time ago. Trial is currently scheduled for mid 2012. Jagex is confident that it will prevail in this litigation and the developers of IBOT will eventually be forced to stop interfering in the game environment envisioned for legitimate players.
Is Jagex suing its players? If so, what gives?
Yes, Jagex is suing certain players who choose to disregard the terms, conditions and agreements entered into by them and continue to use bots, but it is also offering them a one-time amnesty. Jagex filed a lawsuit in the Central District of California in 2011, against unnamed persons (the technical terms is ‘John Does’, like in CSI!) who were themselves botting in RuneScape. These are the people playing RuneScape who are using third party software to bot, unlawfully getting round our technological measures designed to stop bots, and breaching our terms and conditions and the longstanding rules of RuneScape. Jagex received Court permission to ask PayPal for enough data to identify these people.
Once it had Court permission, Jagex then asked PayPal to provide enough information to identify who these people are so Jagex could name them as potential defendants in the lawsuit and otherwise enforce Jagex’s rights under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). PayPal provided this data, as ordered by the Court.
Jagex emailed these people to offer them a one time opportunity to reform, stop botting, and settle out of the lawsuit. While Jagex hopes that these people will reform and stop botting, it ultimately is up to these people who are botting to decide whether they want to take the olive branch Jagex is offering or alternatively continue to unlawfully bot. Jagex is trying to give these individuals a simple one-time opportunity to do the right thing and stop. Remember, 99.97% of gold farmers use bots.
Has Jagex unlawfully or dishonestly taken or misused player information?
Jagex always takes its legal obligations very seriously. It has acted consistently (and is continuing to act) in accordance with both US law and with European Data Protection Laws (including our terms and conditions and privacy policy). Jagex has always upheld the highest standards of personal information security and privacy and at all times, and has acted fairly, lawfully and in a justifiable manner.
Some third party bot websites have been making various statements and posting documents that have re-posted, linked to and commented alleging that Jagex is doing a number of things that are unlawful or dishonest in some way or the other. The opposite is in fact true. The developers of IBOT appear particularly upset with Jagex’s recent actions, including the fact that their bot and their business have been worthless since Bot Nuke Day. In ruling in favour of Jagex on a motion filed by the IBOT developers in the United States regarding such allegations from the IBOT developers, the court found that Jagex had not engaged in any such improprieties and that while “[t]he dire consequences predicted by defendants may transpire, but there are no legitimate grounds upon which this Court is authorized to forestall them.”
Quite simply, Jagex has always acted lawfully and honestly and the allegations levelled by the bot developers against Jagex, have been found to be without support.
What happens now?
Jagex is continuing to focus its efforts on restoring RuneScape back to its very best following a successful Bot Nuke Day. Jagex may continue to do other technical and/or legal things in the meantime, but won’t always be able to tell you all the details or specifics of any ongoing lawsuit such as the current suits in the District of Massachusetts and the Central District of California.
What happened to RSBuddy?
Some of you may also have noticed recently that a significant former bot developer RSBuddy has both acknowledged the harm caused to RuneScape by bots but also completely renounced the further development of any bot software, taking the decision to reform into a RS fansite instead. I warmly welcome this well considered and smart development, I hope that all other bot developers will quickly see the wisdom in RS Buddy’s actions and likewise summarily shut down their own harmful operations before it’s too late. In recognition of recent events and as gesture of goodwill Jagex will draw a line under RSBuddy’s previous activity and that of their former customers provided they remain true to their pledge.
Is Jagex permanently anti-bot?
Jagex always has maintained a consistent position on botting: botting is cheating and ruins the game for legitimate players. We will continue to do whatever we legally can, in both technological and legal avenues, in order to continue removing botting and gold farming from the game. This all comes at considerable cost to Jagex including: considerable development time; high legal fees; and the significant time our dedicated staff have to spend on this.
Don’t believe everything you read on botters’ forums – or take things at face value. Both the technical and legal side of things are fiendishly complicated and subject to all sorts of confidentiality obligations and opinions, that often are seriously misunderstood even by those directly involved. Also, they all claim to be “totally undetectable”, “just like a human” and offer “no ban guarantees.” All are completely false claims; we are carefully monitoring the activities of the remaining screen scraping bots in game.
Bot Nuke Day is the culmination of a series of different measures, all designed to work together, to dramatically stamp out botting in RuneScape. The measures are all working so far; as before, we are only just getting started with a number of updates due over the next few weeks and we will continue to work hard on every front to wipe botting and gold farming out of RuneScape for good.
Again, thank you for your part in helping us wipe out the bots and gold farming from RuneScape.
Mark Gerhard
CEO & CTO
Why so serious? :norris:
kingarabian
2011-11-09 13:15:58
Wow thank you Onilika! Didn't see it :p.
Well interesting indeed Jagex.
Echo_
2011-11-09 13:19:08
So they are suing people for botting now?
onilika
2011-11-09 13:20:47
Seems so.. I think that stupid…suing people for botting…
kingarabian
2011-11-09 13:23:16
From: onilika
Seems so.. I think that stupid…suing people for botting…
My ass. Come at me Jagex. I am in Hawaii, please send a lawyer my way. Honestly from the UK to Hawaii, a plane ticket is almost two thousand USD. Then they will have to pay 300 dollars a night @ a hotel for there lawyer. Then they will need to rent a car. Just an example of how costly it is for them to sue each individual player. It's just a scare tactic people.
nielsie95
2011-11-09 13:31:13
Seems like they take bots seriously.
Kyle Undefined
2011-11-09 13:37:05
I'm sure they're suing the big time botters, like the ones connected to the gold farmers themselves. I doubt they're going after us little guys :P
Shuttleu
2011-11-09 13:47:12
lol
Also, they all claim to be “totally undetectable”, “just like a human” and offer “no ban guarantees.” All are completely false claims;
We never mentioned any of those
~shut
weequ
2011-11-09 13:58:06
We are not undetectable. I'm suprised that so many people think RiD is undetectable just because they say so..
onilika
2011-11-09 14:01:24
From: kingarabian
My ass. Come at me Jagex. I am in Hawaii, please send a lawyer my way. Honestly from the UK to Hawaii, a plane ticket is almost two thousand USD. Then they will have to pay 300 dollars a night @ a hotel for there lawyer. Then they will need to rent a car. Just an example of how costly it is for them to sue each individual player. It's just a scare tactic people.
Nowadays, people sue other people by Mail, Facetime, Skype, MSN ( you name it!)…Imagine! How many hours they would have to spend time in front of a pc…Imagine…how idiot are their behavior! :sasmokin:
Gu3st...
2011-11-09 14:08:59
Not a word about SRL… :( I'm disappointed.
Suing people for breaking their ToS will never work by the way
Sir R. M8gic1an
2011-11-09 14:14:27
From: nielsie95
Seems like they take bots seriously.
Loled. End of quote does pay particular attention to us.
-RM
Overtime
2011-11-09 15:07:24
From: Shuttleu
lol
We never mentioned any of those
~shut
I know i lol'd at that statement too.
Good luck jagex im still running MSI, come at me bro:
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{ MSI Phoenix Short Report }
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{ Time Running: 5 Hours, 41 Minutes and 39 Seconds }
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{ }
{ Totals: }
{ - Players: 6 }
{ - Player Time: 05h 34m 45s }
{ - Loads: 58 }
{ - Experience: 56,525 }
{ - Rocks Mined: 1,615 }
{ }
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{ MSI Phoenix Player Report }
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{ Time Running: 5 Hours, 41 Minutes and 39 Seconds }
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{ }
{ Player 0: SRL }
{ Location: Varrock East Bank }
{ Time: 32m 02s }
{ Active: True }
{ }
{ Script: Varrock East Miner }
{ Time: 32m 02s }
{ Skill: Mining }
{ Exp: 4,865 }
{ Level: 66 }
{ Loads: 5 }
{ Item: Iron ore }
{ Amount: 139 }
{ }
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{ }
{ Player 1: SRL }
{ Location: Varrock East Bank }
{ Time: 38m 25s }
{ Active: True }
{ }
{ Script: Varrock East Miner }
{ Time: 38m 25s }
{ Skill: Mining }
{ Exp: 5,880 }
{ Level: 67 }
{ Loads: 6 }
{ Item: Iron ore }
{ Amount: 168 }
{ }
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{ }
{ Player 2: SRL }
{ Location: Varrock East Bank }
{ Time: 30m 24s }
{ Active: True }
{ }
{ Script: Varrock East Miner }
{ Time: 30m 24s }
{ Skill: Mining }
{ Exp: 4,900 }
{ Level: 66 }
{ Loads: 5 }
{ Item: Iron ore }
{ Amount: 140 }
{ }
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{ }
{ Player 3: SRL }
{ Location: Varrock East Bank }
{ Time: 31m 04s }
{ Active: True }
{ }
{ Script: Varrock East Miner }
{ Time: 31m 04s }
{ Skill: Mining }
{ Exp: 4,725 }
{ Level: 40 }
{ Loads: 5 }
{ Item: Iron ore }
{ Amount: 135 }
{ }
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{ }
{ Player 4: SRL }
{ Location: Varrock East Bank }
{ Time: 32m 25s }
{ Active: True }
{ }
{ Script: Varrock East Miner }
{ Time: 32m 25s }
{ Skill: Mining }
{ Exp: 5,845 }
{ Level: 67 }
{ Loads: 6 }
{ Item: Iron ore }
{ Amount: 167 }
{ }
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{ }
{ Player 5: }
{ Location: Varrock East Bank }
{ Time: 02h 50m 22s }
{ Active: True }
{ }
{ Script: Varrock East Miner }
{ Time: 02h 50m 22s }
{ Skill: Mining }
{ Exp: 30,310 }
{ Level: 81 }
{ Loads: 31 }
{ Item: Iron ore }
{ Amount: 866 }
{ }
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
oudshoorn
2011-11-09 15:13:20
what if you just change your email adress from you rs account? then they won´t be able to track your paypal (if you even have paypal)
/offtopic
WOW that´s a really long message :P
kingarabian
2011-11-09 15:14:49
From: Overtime
I know i lol'd at that statement too.
Good luck jagex im still running MSI, come at me bro:
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{ MSI Phoenix Short Report }
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{ Time Running: 5 Hours, 41 Minutes and 39 Seconds }
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{ }
{ Totals: }
{ - Players: 6 }
{ - Player Time: 05h 34m 45s }
{ - Loads: 58 }
{ - Experience: 56,525 }
{ - Rocks Mined: 1,615 }
{ }
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{ MSI Phoenix Player Report }
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{ Time Running: 5 Hours, 41 Minutes and 39 Seconds }
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{ }
{ Player 0: SRL }
{ Location: Varrock East Bank }
{ Time: 32m 02s }
{ Active: True }
{ }
{ Script: Varrock East Miner }
{ Time: 32m 02s }
{ Skill: Mining }
{ Exp: 4,865 }
{ Level: 66 }
{ Loads: 5 }
{ Item: Iron ore }
{ Amount: 139 }
{ }
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{ }
{ Player 1: SRL }
{ Location: Varrock East Bank }
{ Time: 38m 25s }
{ Active: True }
{ }
{ Script: Varrock East Miner }
{ Time: 38m 25s }
{ Skill: Mining }
{ Exp: 5,880 }
{ Level: 67 }
{ Loads: 6 }
{ Item: Iron ore }
{ Amount: 168 }
{ }
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{ }
{ Player 2: SRL }
{ Location: Varrock East Bank }
{ Time: 30m 24s }
{ Active: True }
{ }
{ Script: Varrock East Miner }
{ Time: 30m 24s }
{ Skill: Mining }
{ Exp: 4,900 }
{ Level: 66 }
{ Loads: 5 }
{ Item: Iron ore }
{ Amount: 140 }
{ }
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{ }
{ Player 3: SRL }
{ Location: Varrock East Bank }
{ Time: 31m 04s }
{ Active: True }
{ }
{ Script: Varrock East Miner }
{ Time: 31m 04s }
{ Skill: Mining }
{ Exp: 4,725 }
{ Level: 40 }
{ Loads: 5 }
{ Item: Iron ore }
{ Amount: 135 }
{ }
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{ }
{ Player 4: SRL }
{ Location: Varrock East Bank }
{ Time: 32m 25s }
{ Active: True }
{ }
{ Script: Varrock East Miner }
{ Time: 32m 25s }
{ Skill: Mining }
{ Exp: 5,845 }
{ Level: 67 }
{ Loads: 6 }
{ Item: Iron ore }
{ Amount: 167 }
{ }
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{ }
{ Player 5: }
{ Location: Varrock East Bank }
{ Time: 02h 50m 22s }
{ Active: True }
{ }
{ Script: Varrock East Miner }
{ Time: 02h 50m 22s }
{ Skill: Mining }
{ Exp: 30,310 }
{ Level: 81 }
{ Loads: 31 }
{ Item: Iron ore }
{ Amount: 866 }
{ }
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
Hate to say it but your script will stop in 20 mins.
:garfield:
Overtime
2011-11-09 15:23:00
/off topic
i know :(
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{ MSI Phoenix Short Report }
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{ Time Running: 6 Hours, 1 Minutes and 0 Seconds }
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{ }
{ Totals: }
{ - Players: 6 }
{ - Player Time: 05h 53m 05s }
{ - Loads: 62 }
{ - Experience: 60,445 }
{ - Rocks Mined: 1,727 }
{ }
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
WE need to find a way to close smart and reload it!
Shuttleu
2011-11-09 15:28:39
From: Overtime
/off topic
i know :(
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{ MSI Phoenix Short Report }
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{ Time Running: 6 Hours, 1 Minutes and 0 Seconds }
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{ }
{ Totals: }
{ - Players: 6 }
{ - Player Time: 05h 53m 05s }
{ - Loads: 62 }
{ - Experience: 60,445 }
{ - Rocks Mined: 1,727 }
{ }
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
{----------------------------------------------------------------}
WE need to find a way to close smart and reload it!
the only way would be to change how smart works
which ben said will take a
lot of work
the reason why is because the jvm needs to be loaded in simba in order for smart to view the colours and stuff
~shut
kingarabian
2011-11-09 15:38:44
From: Shuttleu
the only way would be to change how smart works
which ben said will take a lot of work
the reason why is because the jvm needs to be loaded in simba in order for smart to view the colours and stuff
~shut
There are some ways discovered but we need to wait and see what happens.
Mr. Bottomtooth
2011-11-09 17:15:37
From: Shuttleu
lol
We never mentioned any of those
~shut
It's RiD that keeps talking about being undetectable. Kinda amusing that some people buy that.
From: kingarabian
Hate to say it but your script will stop in 20 mins.
:garfield:
Lold. :D
Flight
2011-11-09 21:11:28
Well that was a fun read. Gold farmers are threat #1 to them, IBot is #2, and the 2% screen-scrapers are #3. Of that 2%, 95% of the interest is in RiD because of the profit they're generating. Glad I never got involved with that iBot bs. Cheers to SRL.
From: WT-Fakawi
Consider us the Masterthieves, the Guild of Robin Hoods. I am sure there is nothing going on here that is really courtworthy. Keep it that way!
What is IBOT?
Also, we are the 2%. (Well, part of it)
From: Ogre
What is IBOT?
Also, we are the 2%. (Well, part of it)
Ibot = Nexus = Impsoft = rscheata.net = Ruler/Geno = Eric/Mark Snellman(Sp?)
WT-Fakawi
2011-11-10 12:21:50
anyone tried to refresh the normal client from FF? I remember there used to be a function findclientfromwindowsize that allowed to runtime detect and set any window with the runescape dimensions.
From: WT-Fakawi
anyone tried to refresh the normal client from FF? I remember there used to be a function findclientfromwindowsize that allowed to runtime detect and set any window with the runescape dimensions.
Ya that's all I would have to do…
But doing it continuously while playing legit is a pain.
[offtopic]Fawk I haven't seen you in a while lol. Glad to see you're out of retirement. I hope Wuzzip came out of the basement and said Hi for me like I asked lolz.[/offtopic]
grats
2011-11-10 13:20:18
From: Camo Developer
I'm sure they're suing the big time botters, like the ones connected to the gold farmers themselves. I doubt they're going after us little guys :P
yea, I don't see them suing me or anything.. they'd definitely go after the guys who sell millions of gold every hour and bot with 1000 accounts or something
if they did come at me I'd just laugh and say I never botted..
If anyone is curious about the email that they've been sending out here you go…
From: wyn10
Ibot = Nexus = Impsoft = rscheata.net = Ruler/Geno = Eric/Mark Snellman(Sp?)
why facepalm
onilika
2011-11-10 14:15:42
From: wyn10
If anyone is curious about the email that they've been sending out here you go…
LOL…who is Mod Matt P?
Is it Mark Gerhard also? :duh:
P1nky
2011-11-10 14:37:50
From: wyn10
If anyone is curious about the email that they've been sending out here you go…
bro… did you go to your email and opened that link … if so you have been just phished…
btw we are part of the 2% left :)
magernub573
2011-11-10 16:40:40
From: P1nky
bro… did you go to your email and opened that link … if so you have been just phished…
btw we are part of the 2% left :)
look at the url, its from runescape and its https. its actually runescape. i find it hard to believe they can sue you for using bots though. can it happen?
Kyle Undefined
2011-11-10 17:11:53
From: magernub573
i find it hard to believe they can sue you for using bots though. can it happen?
It's in their ToS and botting breaks those, so yes, they can sue.
n3ss3s
2011-11-10 17:25:00
anyone tried to refresh the normal client from FF? I remember there used to be a function findclientfromwindowsize that allowed to runtime detect and set any window with the runescape dimensions.
Not sure if it's still there but it's a very simple thing to punch into a .dll
magernub573
2011-11-10 18:58:35
From: Camo Developer
It's in their ToS and botting breaks those, so yes, they can sue.
"(Digital Millennium Copyright Act) A U.S. law enacted in late 1998 that provides penalties for developing hardware or software that overrides copy protection schemes for digital media."
It doesnt say anything in the TOS about legal action being taken against macroing, from what i read.
how is botting overriding copy protection? i really dont see how they can do that.
Edit:
n3ss3s corrected me :/
n3ss3s
2011-11-10 19:04:30
Luckily SMART doesn't use a modified client.
nickrules
2011-11-10 19:05:54
From: magernub573
"(Digital Millennium Copyright Act) A U.S. law enacted in late 1998 that provides penalties for developing hardware or software that overrides copy protection schemes for digital media."
It doesnt say anything in the TOS about legal action being taken against macroing, from what i read.
how is botting overriding copy protection? i guess if using a modified client (smart) that would be considered, but i really dont see how they can do that.
Smart doesn't modify the client, iirc. RSBot got sued for it, because they did. That was awhile ago, though.
E: ninja'd :ninja:
P1nky
2011-11-10 19:12:33
From: magernub573
look at the url, its from runescape and its https. its actually runescape. i find it hard to believe they can sue you for using bots though. can it happen?
No, all my email links look just like that and my Brother friends all got hacked and all , so he was the one who told me just letting yall know no biggie ;)
magernub573
2011-11-10 19:17:33
nevermind, im an idiot lmao.
Silent
2011-11-10 22:00:15
From: P1nky
No, all my email links look just like that and my Brother friends all got hacked and all , so he was the one who told me just letting yall know no biggie ;)
He wasn't in an e-mail though, that was his current address, which was on RS. They confirmed this in the forums at one point, but have since removed the thread. See this page
here.
From: P1nky
bro… did you go to your email and opened that link … if so you have been just phished…
btw we are part of the 2% left :)
Look at the Url.
I'm not an idiot.
DarkCoder
2011-11-12 15:26:14
As I see it:
iBot/Powerbot use Injection/Reflection in order to access the games content and thus instruct your player what to do. To do this they need to both reverse the java complier along with any means of obfuscation which Jagex has in place.
I am now assuming that Jagex are claiming that such is a case of reverse engeeneering over copyrighted material and this is strengthened by the 'bot nuke' which makes it even harder (and more clearer) that the client is not meant to be read and thus requires a clearer level of reverse engineering.
The DMCA is an U.S. law thus meaning non-us people for the time being are safe. Although it is worth noting that similar acts to the DMCA exist in most western countries so the precendent from the John Does may work against bot makers.
Using the colours of the game to bot is not covered (as it is how normal people play using their eyes lol) and would in my eyes be pushing the law too far if Jagex tried to make a legal case for someone botting this way. As for botters being sued, I doubt Jagex are concerned by little people (as the legal cost would be too large) therefore only large gold farmers and the like will be sued and a scare tactic for everyone else.
Hopefully that makes sense?
Invalid Gold
2011-11-12 22:08:20
They can't sue, Because, what evidence have they gathered to support that we purchased botting software, That can only be privacy invasion. Which is illegal. Meaning… You CAN Sue them.
Case closed.
Flight
2011-11-12 22:17:12
From: Invalid Gold
They can't sue, Because, what evidence have they gathered to support that we purchased botting software, That can only be privacy invasion. Which is illegal. Meaning… You CAN Sue them.
Case closed.
We as in who?
Kyle Undefined
2011-11-12 22:52:38
From: Invalid Gold
They can't sue, Because, what evidence have they gathered to support that we purchased botting software, That can only be privacy invasion. Which is illegal. Meaning… You CAN Sue them.
Case closed.
They can't sue us because we haven't done anything illegal. However, the other bots that used injection can be sued.
From: DarkCoder
As I see it:
iBot/Powerbot use Injection/Reflection in order to access the games content and thus instruct your player what to do. To do this they need to both reverse the java complier along with any means of obfuscation which Jagex has in place.
I am now assuming that Jagex are claiming that such is a case of reverse engeeneering over copyrighted material and this is strengthened by the 'bot nuke' which makes it even harder (and more clearer) that the client is not meant to be read and thus requires a clearer level of reverse engineering.
The DMCA is an U.S. law thus meaning non-us people for the time being are safe. Although it is worth noting that similar acts to the DMCA exist in most western countries so the precendent from the John Does may work against bot makers.
Using the colours of the game to bot is not covered (as it is how normal people play using their eyes lol) and would in my eyes be pushing the law too far if Jagex tried to make a legal case for someone botting this way. As for botters being sued, I doubt Jagex are concerned by little people (as the legal cost would be too large) therefore only large gold farmers and the like will be sued and a scare tactic for everyone else.
Hopefully that makes sense?
Ibot only reads the client.
Rsbot downloads the client and injects it.
from
http://copyright.gov/title17/92chap12.html
"(a) Violations Regarding Circumvention of Technological Measures. — (1)(A) No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title."
that's basically what they're saying people are breaking and according to
"(3) Statutory damages. — (A) At any time before final judgment is entered, a complaining party may elect to recover an award of statutory damages for each violation of section 1201 (this is what I quoted above) in the sum of not less than $200 or more than $2,500 per act of circumvention, device, product, component, offer, or performance of service, as the court considers just.
(B) At any time before final judgment is entered, a complaining party may elect to recover an award of statutory damages for each violation of section 1202 in the sum of not less than $2,500 or more than $25,000."
So, it does seem like they could get up to $25,000 from people who used injection bots at least 10 times :o, unless "circumvent a technological measure" isn't broad enough to include end users - only developers and distributors. But I doubt it is limited so, because of "per act of circumvention". idk
Gu3st...
2011-11-13 04:59:35
Well that doesn't apply to Simba or SRL because it doesn't access their work.
DarkCoder
2011-11-13 17:00:31
From: Zyt3x
Well that doesn't apply to Simba or SRL because it doesn't access their work.
Indeed.
Invalid Gold
2011-11-13 17:07:00
From: Flight
We as in who?
Any Person amongst the botting community.
Gu3st...
2011-11-13 19:39:23
From: Invalid Gold
Any Person amongst the botting community.
None of us payed anything for Simba, srl or the scripts (Read:
We didn't purchase anything)
Flight
2011-11-13 20:38:56
From: Zyt3x
None of us payed anything for Simba, srl or the scripts (Read: We didn't purchase anything)
Yep yep. So, Invalid Gold, your much previous post wouldn't apply to us. ;)
doublex8
2011-11-14 12:45:14
From: Flight
Yep yep. So, Invalid Gold, your much previous post wouldn't apply to us. ;)
I believe he was agreeing that they can't sue anyone at srl?
onilika
2011-11-14 13:19:43
From: doublex8
I believe he was agreeing that they can't sue anyone at srl?
They can't sue us because we don't inject anything, and SRL is a place can everyone can have scripts for free ( this is not a business community, like RSbuddy and so on). We only accept donations, that permit us to be online. There's nothing illegal with that. So,
they can't sue us.
smurg
2011-11-14 14:40:54
Actually, they could sue us, it would be just as ridiculous as suing other botters though.
From what I gather, they've put up a lawsuit front to sue individual botters and claiming it hurts their brand and they are losing money from each botter.
The lawsuit seems ridiculous since that data would be unquantifiable and I don't think they've named anyone yet.
Flight
2011-11-14 20:09:34
From: smurg
Actually, they could sue us, it would be just as ridiculous as suing other botters though.
From what I gather, they've put up a lawsuit front to sue individual botters and claiming it hurts their brand and they are losing money from each botter.
The lawsuit seems ridiculous since that data would be unquantifiable and I don't think they've named anyone yet.
The information they're gathering only those individuals are based on paid bots. They're apparently getting that info through PayPal. Again, that doesn't have anything to do with us.
grats
2011-11-14 21:45:26
so in that sense I could easily argue back to them saying I bot less than most people play, I rarely interact with other players and I don't sell/buy and change the market in any way
pretty easy to get out of their crappy approach, also my $5 a month is > anything I do
doublex8
2011-11-14 23:08:51
From: onilika
They can't sue us because we don't inject anything, and SRL is a place can everyone can have scripts for free ( this is not a business community, like RSbuddy and so on). We only accept donations, that permit us to be online. There's nothing illegal with that. So, they can't sue us.
Yes, I was just stating that Invalid Gold was agreeing with you, not questioning anything. We are all in agreeance. No one is doubting you or anyone else that is saying they can't sue us. We agree with you that Jagex cannot sue us. We concur to the statement that Jagex can't sue us.
hylander
2011-11-15 01:48:20
Its kinda stupid that they are trying to attack the every day botters! :fiery:
oudshoorn
2011-11-15 10:22:41
I really wonder how they are going to try and take Simba out. Maybe changing colours, but that would be annoying for players? ideas?
tom99
2011-11-15 10:34:10
lol i cannot see how rs would look like if all objects where animating in all colors, i bet it would make alot of legit player leave. also it would not entirely break simba because it could still rely on bmpmasks.
wirsbobrsiw
2011-11-22 11:10:35
Like seriously… they set up an update which killed Epicbot, RsBuddy, and all these, they went from like 200k players to like 40-60k. And still, they are trying to remove color/reflection bots? They earn like thousands a year from players being members, and they complain about some hundred botters that only bots to be good at the game? And tell me, how are they supposed to kill color/reflection bots? Make Runescape old fashion? (no colors, only black/white). No they cant. Can they make everything change colors rapidly? No they cant. Can they make membership free so that f2p players would have fun being members instead of being bored with the game so they wouldnt bot? I guess they could, but dont think they want, and there would still be some botters :p My point is, they killed all the extreme botters, why kill those few who are less? And sue-botters-my-ass. Like they would spend hours and hours of writing mails to sue every botters? And how do they know we are botters? They have no proof…
Gimpy666
2011-11-22 14:54:59
From: wirsbobrsiw
Like seriously… they set up an update which killed Epicbot, RsBuddy, and all these, they went from like 200k players to like 40-60k. And still, they are trying to remove color/reflection bots? They earn like thousands a year from players being members, and they complain about some hundred botters that only bots to be good at the game? And tell me, how are they supposed to kill color/reflection bots? Make Runescape old fashion? (no colors, only black/white). No they cant. Can they make everything change colors rapidly? No they cant. Can they make membership free so that f2p players would have fun being members instead of being bored with the game so they wouldnt bot? I guess they could, but dont think they want, and there would still be some botters :p My point is, they killed all the extreme botters, why kill those few who are less? And sue-botters-my-ass. Like they would spend hours and hours of writing mails to sue every botters? And how do they know we are botters? They have no proof…
Reflection bots have been offline for a month now. Colour bots have been in existence since the dawn of Runescape Classic.
Mr. Bottomtooth
2011-11-22 15:11:43
From: wirsbobrsiw
My point is, they killed all the extreme botters, why kill those few who are less?
Because it's against the rules of the game…?
And they do have proof. Jagex doesn't ban anyone unless they are 110% sure they botted. Coordinates and colors clicked, randoms etc, they use a lot of different things to try and find out if you're cheating.
onilika
2011-11-23 06:03:48
In a few months, there is no Runescape for anyone…
Is there a thread or something anywhere where i can follow the case Fagex vs Ibot ?
nykwizard
2011-11-27 21:30:45
Flight
2011-11-27 21:57:18
This was a very interesting read, and if you guys have time I suggest you look over this. It points out some of the mistakes Jagex has been making regarding gaining personal info on people through their paypal purchases to Impulse software.
http://www.matthewtaylor.co.nz/2011/11/04/jagexs-war-on-bots-ft-scare-tactics-subpoenas-and-paypal/Edit:
I've been comparing this to how Paypal reluctantly surrendered the information on 70,000 buyers to Jagex for such purposes. Paypal has such instances to where they must give up this
limited information if needed.
From: PayPal
We may share your personal information with:
- we are compelled to do so by a subpoena, court order or similar legal procedure
They also said something in that area about receiving prior notice when this applies. So for those of you who have gotten an email of this sorts from Jagex, did you also get a notice email from PayPal that they would be sharing your personal information?
grats
2011-11-27 22:06:06
as I figured, jagex blindly attacks and doesn't think anything through
they can't go around suing players without breaking rules themselves
that picture is funny, you got some code, itunes and what appears to be a database list all on 1 screen?
I wonder what the guy is pointing out when having itunes running, seems unprofessional
one thing is for sure, all of those users whose privacy was invaded can easily sue jagex now, especially if they went in as a team
They run a check for your PayPal address by your membership payment details. If they find a PayPal address, they have Eric check for the PayPal in their database of bot purchases across all of the reseller websites.
E: Oh. This has been discovered already. My bad.
From: Flight
The information they're gathering only those individuals are based on paid bots. They're apparently getting that info through PayPal. Again, that doesn't have anything to do with us.
grats
2011-11-27 22:18:59
I don't think I have any 1 email that is registered to two things that involve money
nykwizard
2011-11-27 22:21:20
From: Flight
This was a very interesting read, and if you guys have time I suggest you look over this. It points out some of the mistakes Jagex has been making regarding gaining personal info on people through their paypal purchases to Impulse software.
http://www.matthewtaylor.co.nz/2011/11/04/jagexs-war-on-bots-ft-scare-tactics-subpoenas-and-paypal/
Great find Flight. They definitely stepped out of their legal territory and its probably going to cost them in the near future. Jagex seems to have a handful of great coders led by idiotic executives. They've done some good things to the game such as great graphic improvements and some well-done new quests but they still don't seem to 'get it'. We have a game thats been around for 10 years and they still can't find a way to make skills such as firemaking and fletching useful/worthwhile meanwhile they spend countless wasted hours designing cosmetic gear that looks nice but no one wears.
cahker
2011-11-27 22:23:09
If they're getting info from paypal then it wouldn't even effect me. I buy pins from other people because I don't have a paypal. And if they give you a last chance every time, what's the risk of botting if you have a "get out of jail free card". And in my opinion botting is helping jagex. I've bought maybe 20 memberships I never would have gotten. They couldn't say they we were hurting their business. If you violate a ToS it gives them the right to deny you service, but it isn't illegal. Or am I wrong?
grats
2011-11-27 22:25:30
From: cahker
If they're getting info from paypal then it wouldn't even effect me. I buy pins from other people because I don't have a paypal. And if they give you a last chance every time, what's the risk of botting if you have a "get out of jail free card". And in my opinion botting is helping jagex. I've bought maybe 20 memberships I never would have gotten. They couldn't say they we were hurting their business. If you violate a ToS it gives them the right to deny you service, but it isn't illegal. Or am I wrong?
unless your country says it's illegal to violate ToS's I'm pretty sure you're spot on correct
nykwizard
2011-11-27 22:25:44
From: cahker
If they're getting info from paypal then it wouldn't even effect me. I buy pins from other people because I don't have a paypal. And if they give you a last chance every time, what's the risk of botting if you have a "get out of jail free card". And in my opinion botting is helping jagex. I've bought maybe 20 memberships I never would have gotten. They couldn't say they we were hurting their business. If you violate a ToS it gives them the right to deny you service, but it isn't illegal. Or am I wrong?
Violating a ToS has no legal ramifications as long as the means by which it was done was not illegal.