SRL Archive - News and General

It might interest you all to know that the idea of using the java.lang.reflect package as a means to automate runescape was first conceived in a conversation between ruler_eric (as he was then known, I hear he just goes by ruler now). Shortly thereafter I developed the first reflection interface to the RS client that did anything useful (sort of at the request of solarwind, who was the only person stupid enough at the time to keep bugging me). Later reflection evolved at the hands of hardcore bot devs to fully replace the injection bots that had been king.

When I first worked on it, I had a bit of a different idea of what it should be (when compared to what it became). I intended it to be more of a utility to simplify the tedious parts of color scripting. I assumed injection would remain the java way of doing things, because in some ways it is more powerful, although more detectable and unstable. In this light, I never intended to implement object finding or anything of that sort. Reflection in pure java forms implemented these "color replacing" functions because they needed them to do anything at all, and they already had the injection based approach to model off of. They went their own way, then, after I added reflection functionality to SMART, reflection devs here implemented the java-bot approach to reflection, ultimately replacing the stability of color with the instability of reflection.

Now that Jagex has significantly changed the inner workings of the client, the algorithms developed in Aryan (the first "injection" bot — it really decompiled the client and applied regexs to the source code, then recompiled) that were the base of all injection/java-reflection bots are invalid and since the client is currently in a highly obfuscated and corrupt state unlike it was in the days Aryan was developed, it is highly unlikely that this will ever get fixed, at least in any short amount of time. Why? There's very little/none of the old guard left that understood the client well, no one has had to play with bytecode from scratch ever, and the client is in a terrible state. Put simply: Java based bots are not going to come back in the short or mid term.This means no one is going to implement things that could replace color, simply because no one that knows how is around or wants to, and thus color is now (again) the only way to bot, and will remain that way for quite some time. So, I was thinking, why not try to re-implement my original conceptualization of reflection? What is that you ask?

Reflection should have done the following (stable):

• Given your current location
• Allowed you to click specific tiles on the minimap (for walking)

These features were/are relatively easy and simple to maintain.

Other (less stable) things reflection could offer well:

• Let you click specific on screen objects (in a static way, i.e. by tile and height)
• Your current animation / hp / info about your player
• Access to the settings array that (used to at least) hold the answers to on-screen randoms, etc.

These are significantly more likely to break/change, but still pretty simple.

These are the things I intended reflection to do, more or less to aid color scripts by giving them stability over long distances / information about things that are not easy to derive by examining colors in even an advanced way. (tl;dr read the other red text and: ) I believe minimap-based walking and location information is very achievable on the short term. Further I believe the other things I intended for reflection are achievable mid/long term. But no one is going to bother/be successful at implementing anything more advanced in at least the short-mid term. I'm curious:

Is SRL open to Reflection being re-implemented in such a way? Please vote.

To be honest, I'm happy using color for walking, with SPS and old fashioned ddtms and all that.

That being said, it would be awesome to see reflection working again as you described it.

No, please no.

I have been waiting for the day where scripting would become interesting again, and finally the day came. Scripting is now a challenge, just like it used to be in the good old days. It's finally a mind-bugging and fun challenge that kept me from just aimlessly browse the internet and waste hours.

Let SRL become 100% color again and let it flourish like it once did. It was a good time and I truly miss it..

E: Kinda unhappy you made this topic in the public forum :(

I imagine this is not as easy as you make it sound, otherwise surely other botmakers would've (re?)turned to this method already?

-RM

From: Zyt3x
No, please no.

I have been waiting for the day where scripting would become interesting again, and finally the day came. Scripting is now a challenge, just like it used to be in the good old days. It's finally a mind-bugging and fun challenge that kept me from just aimlessly browse the internet and waste hours.

Let SRL become 100% color again and let it flourish like it once did. It was a good time and I truly miss it..

E: Kinda unhappy you made this topic in the public forum :(

I would have to argue that your desire to do things the hard way as a scriptwriter is not affected by my possibly providing a tool for others to use. I would also argue that it's of more relevance to non-devs and more relevant to leaches, since they are the people ultimately using the scripts and are the most effected by the quality/magnitude of available scripts. Arguably, if development was easier, there would be more/better scripts.

From: Sir R. M8gic1an
I imagine this is not as easy as you make it sound, otherwise surely other botmakers would've (re?)turned to this method already?

-RM

The interesting point here is that other botmakers have to implement a full bot, I only have to provide some useful info since SRL/Simba is complete on it's own. Reflection in this way is only a tool, hardly a bot.

I prefer life without it, honestly. However, if SPS doesn't get worked out fairly soon, I wouldn't mind being able to continue tile walking with reflection.

I like the idea. Those points you mentioned above were all I ever used Reflection for anyways. With anything else, it is simpler (and more fun!) to use color.

Walking.. thats the only reason we need reflection.

Everything else is more stable and almost as fast with Colour. Not to mention, very easy to maintain and update, should one code it correctly ;).

From: Nava2
Walking.. thats the only reason we need reflection.

Everything else is more stable and almost as fast with Colour. Not to mention, very easy to maintain and update, should one code it correctly ;).

SPS is pretty great and so is radial walking, still.

I dunno about all the oldies saying colour only.. it's never ever going to be as accurate so admit that. Try writing a livid farm script in all colour.. You'd spend days whereas reflection you'd spend probably an hr or two. Again we come down to the colour vs reflection argument. The ease of being able to put a script together in minutes is what we need.. Clearly not a lot of the leechers are going to try to learn colour scripting just to bot. That's not gonna happen. Most will get tired n leave. If reflection came back for SRL before powerbot or whatever, then u will have the most members u ever had and the other bot communities will try to learn your method of course. That's the only learning that will be done.

Absolutely yes.

Walking + 1. Nothing else is needed :)

~Home

I disagree on many points in your post.

Do whatever you want and let other people do what ever they want, always.

Walking/objectfinding and a few things that might help randoms (interfaces might be hard to do though?). That's all we essentially need. Just like KYAB days and early reflection days here, that all was working just fine.

If you say it is possible…..then it's going to happen anyway. If not here then somewehere at our friendly neighbors. And, correct me if I am wrong, there has got to be a certain challenge in this for you, right?

And since I know my Ben :) little longer then most of you….there will be no way to stop him.

But, I am not voting because I dont care about reflection. Never used it, never will. Color's good enough for me. As long as we stay out of trouble, I am neutral to this.

SPS works for finding the position, not for route calculation, if you can get me the grounddata hook, I'd be very pleased. And maybe something to extract images from the client(if this is possible)

From: mormonman
I disagree on many points in your post.

= Yes or no?


~Home

I'll be honest, I think rs is better off without it. But if you think its for the best, you're the One with the ability.

With the ability given back, what's to stop the Reflection developers from expanding onto it? Is this a limitation you're giving intentionally to prevent Jagex from trying to stop it, or is this just information that you can get easily from the client without Jagex breaking it?

From: Home
= Yes or no?


~Home

First off Ben belittles other people, and then asks if we want to cripple our potential…Its a no.

The only thing that Reflection can do that color can't is identifying stacked items on the ground, or other items that you can't actually see. If you can see it, you can do it with color, including the "easy" things you mention.

Since we can't provide a fully functional reflection bot, it is probably better for people not to have a crutch, and just learn how to use color proficiently in the first place.

I voted yes, but mostly for the stable things

I think walking is the only issue some people have

I appreciate your work Ben, we all do. But I personally believe it's time to let reflection take a rest. Maybe in the future, yes. But for the short and mid term we should stick to color.
For those saying walking is hard and not efficient, its not hard. RRW works just fine.

Yes. I don't see why not. Is it hard to keep it up to date?

I say no because I never used it because I don't know how. I also don't trust it right now as jagex has cracked down on it so it probably has a good detection for it. But I am interested in walking to a specific tile

From: Killerdou
SPS works for finding the position, not for route calculation, if you can get me the grounddata hook, I'd be very pleased. And maybe something to extract images from the client(if this is possible)

What do you mean? Unless I'm missing something, SPS can do whatever tile walking could.

My vote is no, for reasons already given.

E: I feel it's kind of a useless post in the public section because obviously more people are going to vote yes. They just want scripts and an easy way of scripting.

From: Coh3n
What do you mean? Unless I'm missing something, SPS can do whatever tile walking could.

My vote is no, for reasons already given.

E: I feel it's kind of a useless post in the public section because obviously more people are going to vote yes. They just want scripts and an easy way of scripting.

SPS doesn't know where you can walk and where you can't, reflection could do that

From: Zyt3x
No, please no.

I have been waiting for the day where scripting would become interesting again, and finally the day came. Scripting is now a challenge, just like it used to be in the good old days. It's finally a mind-bugging and fun challenge that kept me from just aimlessly browse the internet and waste hours.

Let SRL become 100% color again and let it flourish like it once did. It was a good time and I truly miss it..

E: Kinda unhappy you made this topic in the public forum :(

I voted yes and after reading your post I changed my mind. I liked the days when people actually used colour, and when SRL member applications contained scripts without reflection. I think in this year I have only seen one or two applications where it was only colour.

From: Killerdou
SPS doesn't know where you can walk and where you can't, reflection could do that

Not in this case, this reflection is very basic. No isReachable().

From: Killerdou
SPS doesn't know where you can walk and where you can't, reflection could do that

As always it's up to the script writer to not be an idiot and make correct paths.

I voted no, but I think it's a hard question. Why should I restrict others from using reflection? It has no con except that color scripts will be looked down to. All the arguments about making things too easy, that's something you chose yourself. Using the tools you want to make a script is part of setting up the right challenges and experiences you want to achieve with writing this script. But I voted no for myself, not for the community. I don't need it, I don't want it anymore.

Also, I read someone saying something about safety. That's a non issue, with reflection we are doing nothing more than 'reading' the variables out of the java program. We do not change any DLL or even jar. We do not use any code injection. SMART is the only part that is detectable.

I think a poll should be made in members and see the results there…
@zyt3x I agree and feel the same way you do.

From: masterBB
I voted no, but I think it's a hard question. Why should I restrict others from using reflection? It has no con except that color scripts will be looked down to. All the arguments about making things too easy, that's something you chose yourself. Using the tools you want to make a script is part of setting up the right challenges and experiences you want to achieve with writing this script. But I voted no for myself, not for the community. I don't need it, I don't want it anymore.

Also, I read someone saying something about safety. That's a non issue, with reflection we are doing nothing more than 'reading' the variables out of the java program. We do not change any DLL or even jar. We do not use any code injection. SMART is the only part that is detectable.

About your last paragraph, were not so sure anymore… Since jagex fucked up there client there's alot of stuff we don't know or unsure of. Pyroryan may have an idea in the upcoming weeks however.

I say yes. Reflection walking is the thing color bots need to be completely flawless. Yes, we have SPS; however, i'm sure it isn't 100% accurate as reflection could be.

From: Wizzup?
SPS is pretty great and so is radial walking, still.

One question. I hear about radial walking a lot, and I've used it in a lot of my scripts. Is it okay to use radial walking in loops(until it finds the final color on the minimap)? I'm asking because I might make a script to apply for Members and Radialwalk would make everything much much easier.

From: DeSnob
One question. I hear about radial walking a lot, and I've used it in a lot of my scripts. Is it okay to use radial walking in loops(until it finds the final color on the minimap)? I'm asking because I might make a script to apply for Members and Radialwalk would make everything much much easier.

I would say that's a very efficient way of using it. ;)

I dont see why everyone who is against ref walking is against it. Reflection is to color, as botting is to playing legit. Just because reflection is easy to use means we dont want it? Seriously? Can you guys even get your head around that idea? You are giving up something more efficient(reflection) and choosing the long/hard way(color/SPS). If thats the way you think then you should'nt even be botting in the first place since its more efficient than playing legit.

Also ref is not just used to walk in case you guys didnt read OP, Ben said that it could be used to get info about your player(e.g: animation?can u do that with color? NO)

Not only Reflection makes it easier to script, it also takes less computing power. If you knew how SPS works and compare it with how Reflection works you'll realise that reflection takes like a fraction of the cpu power to get the same result with more accuracy(so less greenhouse gases?). The only 'valid' reason i see for not using reflection is that it will undermine color walking. When it comes to technology 'Old is Gold' does not stand true(in most cases)

Kingkong you witnessed what jagex did to reflection right. Sure it's more efficient but it's no where near reliable as it once was. In the real world most successful companies choose something reliable and work to make it better instead of something unreliable but somewhat efficient.

From: DeSnob
One question. I hear about radial walking a lot, and I've used it in a lot of my scripts. Is it okay to use radial walking in loops(until it finds the final color on the minimap)? I'm asking because I might make a script to apply for Members and Radialwalk would make everything much much easier.

Yes. Like

Repeat
  RadialWalk(...)
  clicks := clicks + 1;
Until FindSymbol('mining') or (clicks > 30) or finddtm(...);

From: NCDS
I prefer life without it, honestly. However, if SPS doesn't get worked out fairly soon, I wouldn't mind being able to continue tile walking with reflection.

I agree with NCDS on this. An accurate way to find tiles on the MS and MM would be wonderful, I think that's all I would ask for from Reflection at this point.

Infact, if you'll read through all the posts, tiles for walking is what everyone is wanting. Going without reflection has forced (atleast some) of us to learn how to do everything before, but rather with color. No doubt walking can be done with color, but I doubt color will get to that point.

From: KingKong
Also ref is not just used to walk in case you guys didnt read OP, Ben said that it could be used to get info about your player(e.g: animation?can u do that with color? NO)

I just wanted to comment on this, because everyone else ignored it.

Actually, we can. Check out animation.scar. :)

From: kingarabian
Kingkong you witnessed what jagex did to reflection right. Sure it's more efficient but it's no where near reliable as it once was.

How exactly is reflection not reliable? Once someone finds a way to obtain hooks from the new clusterfluttered client it(reflection) will be the same as it was before(more or less, the difficulty in obtaining the hooks has increased with the update).

From: kingarabian
In the real world most successful companies choose something reliable and work to make it better instead of something unreliable but somewhat efficient.

Again, how exactly is reflection not reliable and color reliable? It depends on how good the person is using the tools.

From: Nava2
I just wanted to comment on this, because everyone else ignored it.

Actually, we can. Check out animation.scar. :)

So we can distinguish whether we are woodcutting or fishing or fishing with a net or fishing with a harpoon? and do this?:

Access to the settings array that (used to at least) hold the answers to on-screen randoms, etc.

I voted yes. When I make scripts, I make em with the objective that they work to achieve a goal. Reflection makes this objective way more viable with a lot less work.

From: KingKong
I dont see why everyone who is against ref walking is against it. Reflection is to color, as botting is to playing legit. Just because reflection is easy to use means we dont want it? Seriously? Can you guys even get your head around that idea? You are giving up something more efficient(reflection) and choosing the long/hard way(color/SPS). If thats the way you think then you should'nt even be botting in the first place since its more efficient than playing legit.

Also ref is not just used to walk in case you guys didnt read OP, Ben said that it could be used to get info about your player(e.g: animation?can u do that with color? NO)

Not only Reflection makes it easier to script, it also takes less computing power. If you knew how SPS works and compare it with how Reflection works you'll realise that reflection takes like a fraction of the cpu power to get the same result with more accuracy(so less greenhouse gases?). The only 'valid' reason i see for not using reflection is that it will undermine color walking. When it comes to technology 'Old is Gold' does not stand true(in most cases)

I agree 200% with you on this…

From: kingarabian
I think a poll should be made in members and see the results there…

Look at how many members voted yes as compared to no…

From: kingarabian
Kingkong you witnessed what jagex did to reflection right. Sure it's more efficient but it's no where near reliable as it once was. In the real world most successful companies choose something reliable and work to make it better instead of something unreliable but somewhat efficient.

Reflection is only as reliable as you make it and so is color. If BenLand100 says its possible, then I believe its possible!

I probably should post and explain why I voted yes, since before I just voted and moved on.

It's because I like choice. Simple as that. Why only have one good way of doing things, when you could have two good ways? Of course, this holds true only if both ways of doing things are at least equally good. If one's always inferior to the other, then there's no real choice anyway, so it shouldn't be an option.

You guys are missing the point. Jagex has successfully nerfed reflection for months to come. So once reflection developers fix reflection and they obtain the hooks, what if jagex does another clusterflutter? The cycle repeats. What makes reflection unreliable is that reflection relys on Jagex's client. Jagex has complete control over there own client and they can do what they want.
And what makes you so sure after clusterflutter that reflection hooks will be easy to get?

From: kingarabian
You guys are missing the point. Jagex has successfully nerfed reflection for months to come. So once reflection developers fix reflection and they obtain the hooks, what if jagex does another clusterflutter? The cycle repeats. What makes reflection unreliable is that reflection relys on Jagex's client. Jagex has complete control over there own client and they can do what they want.
And what makes you so sure after clusterflutter that reflection hooks will be easy to get?

Jagex could introduce graphical updates every week. Does this mean colors go down? The possibilities are always endless but regardless we adapt in all nevessary measures to face our challenges.

From: Yago
Jagex could introduce graphical updates every week. Does this mean colors go down? The possibilities are always endless but regardless we adapt in all nevessary measures to face our challenges.

Sure color would go down, but not as severe as reflection. And you and I could help fix color as well. But we can't say the same for reflection. Only a select few no what there talking bout in regards of the client.

Btw. This poll is open for the public. Obviously reflection has more support because of other members coming from other reflection communities.

From: kingarabian

Btw. This poll is open for the public. Obviously reflection has more support because of other members coming from other reflection communities.

As of this post, 27 people that are SRL Members or higher have voted yes, while 10 have voted no. And of the 42 people that voted yes, only 6 of them have joined as a result of the bot nuke.

Reflection was nice to have for walking purposes, other than that I never used it.

From: senrath
As of this post, 27 people that are SRL Members or higher have voted yes, while 10 have voted no. And of the 42 people that voted yes, only 6 of them have joined as a result of the bot nuke.

Yeah well in the end it all comes back to Ben. Honestly there are many more ways to go on about. There's Directx and OpenGL highjacking, and of course reflection.

This is just like KYAB where it was there just for walking.

I don't see why this possible advancement is being regarded as an evil; if people want to put their time into the development of something that makes scripting easier at the potential of it breaking eventually (that they're obviously going to be aware of) I don't understand the logic behind stopping them, especially when it's not like when/if it breaks it will break SRL.

People are acting like scripts are only going to be composed of reflection immediately if this is implemented and that color will be a thing of the past. Although as people have seen color is reliable so there will still be non-reflection scripts, just like there has been in the past (although it sounds like color is going to be a necessity in all scripts anyways?).

@the point of making scripting easier, I also don't see the problem with that. Those that are interested in making bots for runescape can do so slightly easier and those that are focused on the learning aspect can focus on color-only.

I voted yes.

EDIT: And if it's actually possible to do this and it's declined, the topic is going to come up over and over.

^^Exactly what he said, implementing the limited reflection does not mean all the scripts will become ref based, theres still a lot of things ref cant be used for. Another point I want to make is that SPS walking still gives tons of erros that still hasn't been fixed which means that new and old users alike have a lot of trouble even getting used to it. AFAIK, we never had a problem when reflection was used for walking. I also want to know the reasons why the people voted no(someone want to share it with us?) other than the fact that color walking will never be used.

I voted yes, not because I want to use it or ever did, but because people need a choice. If someone wants to use it, fine by me.

I prefer color, it's fun and adds a challenge. To me, reflection took the fun out of scripting. I know that Ben is saying it wouldn't be full reflection support, but how long till someone finds away based off of his work?

In the end, let people who want to use it, use it. They deserve that choice if it's available.

Reflection has had its run, and it was definitely great while it lasted. But now with it being severely crippled, do we really want to go that direction again?

In high school we saw a video of a mother primate carrying around its dead baby for a few days, until she finally left it behind. It may be comforting to use reflection again. It might help in some way over the short term. It might be more familiar to new people coming to this forum. But is it really the future, or is it clinging to the past?

Someone else brought up OpenGL, and it has been kicked around as an idea for a while, but as long as reflection was around there was no need to bother with it. Maybe now is the time.

I don't care if there are a few reflection functions available for people to use or not. But if it becomes a burden for BenLand to maintain, I would rather have people bug him for NEW functionality than to just keep crippled functionality working. Jagex knows how to break reflection, that we know for sure. I don't see the potential reward as worth the effort, personally. We should be moving forward not looking backward.

From: Yago
Jagex could introduce graphical updates every week. Does this mean colors go down? The possibilities are always endless but regardless we adapt in all nevessary measures to face our challenges.

The fact is that they won't. Would you play a game that would change the look every day? Acid Runescape.

From: Wizzup?
The fact is that they won't. Would you play a game that would change the look every day? Acid Runescape.

Heck i wouldnt play a runescape a rainbow runescape. My point was Jagex could do anything they wanted, even though reflection would probably be easier to alter.

However, I believe that if Ben is up to the challenge then there wont be a problem.

OpenGL is the next step if you ask me.

I'm completely ignorant in this domain though, so keep in mind that i'm not saying anything about efficiency, memory usage etc…

Color just seems regressive to me.

From: Dervish
OpenGL is the next step if you ask me.

I'm completely ignorant in this domain though, so keep in mind that i'm not saying anything about efficiency, memory usage etc…

Color just seems regressive to me.

OGL should be the next step, but the only person who actually had time and interest in this subject made a basic FindObject() and quit. :-\

From: marpis
OGL should be the next step, but the only person who actually had time and interest in this subject made a basic FindObject() and quit. :-\

The good thing about Simba, SRL, and color is that it is very simple for the masses to contribute to the working core.

With java bots, reflection, OGL, etc., the entire community has to rely on a few key individuals for any form of stability, function, and progress.

That's probably why color won't die.

I voted yes to this, as a form of injection or reflection bots will appear again, that is unless a packet bot somehow becomes possible again (jk). But truthfully I can't see added functionality being detrimental to the community, if anything having a work in progress, while still adding to our current functionality is the basis of innovation. Jagex seems to be serious about trying to take out the colour based bots this time around compared to all the previous bot busting they have done, so perhaps having another biscuit cooking would be good. After all you have to risk it for the biscuit!

No one is going to stop you from doing what you want Ben. It's your decision.

Go for it. I agree with Iron Man.

I'm all for having more tools at your disposal. If reflection reborn can complement color scripts then why wouldn't you?

I'd like to make a change to my previous statement. Apparently if SPS is as accurate as people say it is, then there's probably not that much need for reflection telling us our tiles. However, animation is pretty hard to detect via color, if we had anything from reflection, I'd hope it was player animations.

Either walking or animation is all we would need it for.

Also, Flight, your numbers on your images don't always show up :P

From: Camo Developer
Either walking or animation is all we would need it for.

Also, Flight, your numbers on your images don't always show up :P

Blame Stats. :p Sometimes when you load up the Stats page you'll see on the right that all the variables are at 0. I was told why this happens in the past but I don't recall now.

From: Wizzup?
The fact is that they won't. Would you play a game that would change the look every day? Acid Runescape.

I've been working on an essence miner and I will tell you how ironically true this statement may become.

It used to be 6 static spawn locations, constant cave wall map shapes, and yellow exit portals in static locations.

Now it's an infinite number of spawn locations, fractal-geometrically generated cave wall shapes, portals that fluctuate hue from color to color (red, green, purple etc.) that move around.

Pretty soon they will do this with every aspect of the game and people will start playing just to "feel" high.

So other communities have a possibility to come back? w/ Reflection?

Go ahead and provide this tool, but leave the hooking and updating to the user. That way only people who truly know how it works will be able to use it.

I actually don't want reflection back, since now that I see SPS is gaining peoples trust and is getting better every week, I'd be damn proud to see SRL dominating RS cheating scene and using solely color.

And I really do believe in SPS. There are many 6 hour proggies in MSI and other scripts that use SPS and they mostly end because of randoms and RS updates.

From: marpis
I actually don't want reflection back, since now that I see SPS is gaining peoples trust and is getting better every week, I'd be damn proud to see SRL dominating RS cheating scene and using solely color.

And I really do believe in SPS. There are many 6 hour proggies in MSI and other scripts that use SPS and they mostly end because of randoms and RS updates.

Yes, MSI works like a beast, I get 6h proggies every day! :)
Now I can go even longer with the "antiupdate" thingie by Harry! ;)

~Eerik.

Although i never got a script to work fully colored long ago on Scar/SRL it would be nice to see that Jagex didn't expect that a botting community would strike back with Color. Yes that would be very nice if the only had some tricks ready against reflection and Java.

From: Wanted
I've been working on an essence miner and I will tell you how ironically true this statement may become.

It used to be 6 static spawn locations, constant cave wall map shapes, and yellow exit portals in static locations.

Now it's an infinite number of spawn locations, fractal-geometrically generated cave wall shapes, portals that fluctuate hue from color to color (red, green, purple etc.) that move around.

Pretty soon they will do this with every aspect of the game and people will start playing just to "feel" high.

Great part is that they're still ridiculously easy to find.

I would just like to see walking again, I personally find it to be the only thing I struggled with back when SRL/SCAR was just colour.

From: norrisemoe
I would just like to see walking again, I personally find it to be the only thing I struggled with back when SRL/SCAR was just colour.

http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?p=778286
Check that shi out! ^

I will admit YoHoJo I don't really trawl this site a lot, I like to keep my scripts to myself I suppose I am selfish :-p

but thank you I must give that a go :-)

Voted yes.

Color-based bots would improve dramatically if a proper and more accurate walking method was introduced. From the few free scripts I've tested here the main issue I notice in functionality is the user is off by a tile or two which throws off a lot of scripts.

From: nykwizard
Voted yes.

Color-based bots would improve dramatically if a proper and more accurate walking method was introduced. From the few free scripts I've tested here the main issue I notice in functionality is the user is off by a tile or two which throws off a lot of scripts.

Color-based bots would no longer be color-based bots if they're based on reflection…

^ You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Zyt3x again.

Personally, I've been around SRL for quite the time and I have seen changes to the community in such a positive way ever since reflection was gone. Everyone seems to be working together more to achieve the stability with color. Reflection somewhat ruined scripting, not saying that it ruined scripting in ways such that it limited people, but it was very easy to script, people became too dependant on reflection to do literally everything for them. Now, of course I'm not bashing reflection as there are some scripts out there that would be very difficult to create if it wasn't for the beauty of reflection, but that is what everyone likes, no? A challenge. We aren't scared of jagex's stupid updates, and personally I believe if reflection is re-implemented, jagex will stop it at all costs, because they're afraid of it becoming bot-scape again. Color bots are fine in the game, they seem to not effect as many users, simply because the number of bots is significantly less and the vast majority of the SRL users here are mature, so then it just leaves RiD's users for jagex to deal with.

Anyway, tl;dr -> Reflection is great, however it makes scripters very dependant on it's core functions. Color, SPS, other possible future color detection algorithms, are in my head, number one, because even with jagex's stupid item changing/game updating, they're still unable to stop it. In the end it is up to Bendland to decide, however that's just my two cents.

I don't know if I'm supposed to be spreading it or not but, as how I understand it, the circumstances have changed. I'm quite sure, from what I've heard, this isn't gonna happen. So, I suggest we just keep our focus to color and continue to develop.

From: Zyt3x
Color-based bots would no longer be color-based bots if they're based on reflection…

Isn't he just discussing adding reflection-based tools into the client while all the color recognition stuff would work? I would still color that color-based…just color++

From: nykwizard
Isn't he just discussing adding reflection-based tools into the client while all the color recognition stuff would work? I would still color that color-based…just color++

What's the meaning of adding reflection-based tools if you're not going to use it?

Zyt3x: Are there things one had to use reflection for that color can't be adapted to ?

From: NickMystre
Zyt3x: Are there things one had to use reflection for that color can't be adapted to ?

Not many things… The only thing I can think of at the top of my head would be getting individual player names and position on mainscreen, item position on mainscreen and perfect uptext / chooseoption text getting.

Zyt3x: Not many things… The only thing I can think of at the top of my head would be getting individual player names and position on mainscreen, item position on mainscreen and perfect uptext / chooseoption text getting.

Is uptext managed by OCR - or are there other tricks you have in Simba ?

PS: Why in the Options field below my quick reply can I not check 'Quote message in reply?'

From: NickMystre
Is uptext managed by OCR - or are there other tricks you have in Simba ?

PS: Why in the Options field below my quick reply can I not check 'Quote message in reply?'

Yeah, OCR handles uptext finding

From: NickMystre
Zyt3x: Are there things one had to use reflection for that color can't be adapted to ?

Getting animation, perfect walking(sps cant do it when the MM is too crowded), getting your position(same as before), solving randoms just to name a few. No one can argue reflection is superior than color(want examples? look how successful the bots that abused reflection were)

From: KingKong
Getting animation, perfect walking(sps cant do it when the MM is too crowded), getting your position(same as before), solving randoms just to name a few. No one can argue color is superior than reflection(want examples? look how successful the bots that abused reflection were)

Is it just way more difficult to use color where previously reflection was used with ease - or is it just impossible to do some things ?

Thx! :)

From: Zyt3x
What's the meaning of adding reflection-based tools if you're not going to use it?

Well if the case is that you can't have it all, if you only got reflection walking, I think that leaves quite a bunch for color to handle.
Id still call that colorbased.

From: NickMystre
Is it just way more difficult to use color where previously reflection was used with ease - or is it just impossible to do some things ?

Thx! :)

I wouldn't say it's much more difficult to use color, but it is a bit more difficult in some cases (random solving is difficult but possible in color quite accurately (even the maze random), and getting your animation is virtually impossible in color today (theoretically possible, just a lot of work and has no real use, imo)). Still, there's theoretically nothing that can't be done in color regarding macroing in RS.

Scripts can 'see' just as you and I do, and we can play the game just fine without knowing tiles and IDs of everything, so there's no reason things can't be done in color.

From: KingKong
Getting animation, perfect walking(sps cant do it when the MM is too crowded), getting your position(same as before), solving randoms just to name a few. No one can argue color is superior than reflection(want examples? look how successful the bots that abused reflection were)

Regarding Zyt3x's fix, he fixed it wrong (well, according to KingKong). I assume KingKong meant "reflection is superior to color."

From: i luffs yeww
Regarding Zyt3x's fix, he fixed it wrong (well, according to KingKong). I assume KingKong meant "reflection is superior to color."

Whoops! Fixed, thanks :)

From: DaWu
Well if the case is that you can't have it all, if you only got reflection walking, I think that leaves quite a bunch for color to handle.
Id still call that colorbased.

+1 My Point exactly.

Has any progress been made? I am interested in seeing the stability of a simpler form of reflection.

Let me post something from my point of view. I have a reflection explorer sitting right over there *points to desktop*. There is more then one problem that stops this, and please correct me if I am wrong. Firstly, the state of instantiation. Now, before the bot nuke I was working on something like this so I have some form of knowledge with the RuneScape client. So lets take a look at the following code:

public class InvokeClass {
    int x;
    public void method(){
    SettingArrayClass sac = new Sac();
    sac.init();
    }

}

Now, the only way for you to be able to get that "sac" reference inside that method is to use injection and move sac outside of that scope and move it to a global scope. Secondly, the problem with the 6 hour re-obfuscation of the client. You would have to be able to find exactly which method contains the reference to the Settings Array, or even the Player Location int's. Now, I do not know if the Player Location int's are in the Client class, since I'm working on older versions. The only way I can think of is to find the Location arrays, inject the methods, and reflect those methods in run time.
That's my two cents. Please, if I'm wrong don't hesitate to correct me.

I voted yes.

Randoms are the only thing that we need Reflection for.
Everything else (other than Walking but SPS should be fixed soon(?)) can be solved via color.

Reflection is like caviar, it accompanies less fancy things to make them more fancy. Hard to obtain, a little bit goes a long way, and too much is not worth the cost (or in reflections case, the work and waits).

I vote yes but id hate to see things like 50 frost dragon bots in every world.

Reflection pros:
-better random solving
-more effective than color
Cons:
-Jagex makes so much updates cause it will crash 2-3 times a week
Besides it might crash all injection/reflection bots again (another nuke I mean)

I say we move as far away from reflection as possible. There are many issues with it currently, such as potential legal problem and Jagex messing with it.

You can see with rarebot what the issues can be, their bot ran for some people (also I didn't get it to work), with huge lag for all, for some it would not even load RS and apparently Jagex broke it again and it even seems that some of the users (those who got it to work) have had their accounts banned by Jagex.

Wow your so dumb. ran for some people? It ran for mostly everyone 80%+. Ive run 5 accounts for over 24 hrs of botting each and no ban. Its bullshit thats what it is.

i would absolutely love to see reflection back for walking and postion. Would make rc bots alot easier. What are the possibilites of even being able to implement reflection back. I mean didnt the bot-nuke break how reflection works? i dont get how we could even be disscussing this, but then again i wasnt very active in rs in 2011 haha came back because of this nuke

EDIT:: Now epicbot is back and i think Rarebot is getting updated by the weekend so who knows maybe injection could be used for walking or something?

/thread please

From: elietu
Wow your so dumb. ran for some people? It ran for mostly everyone 80%+. Ive run 5 accounts for over 24 hrs of botting each and no ban. Its bullshit thats what it is.

Ran for some people means ran for some. I don't know the percentage, but the scripts only partially worked for me. And when you looked at the forums other people were having these problems as well. Also the banns I got from sythe forums where some people claimed that they had been banned after using rarebot, not 100% if that is true of course.

And is the bot working for you now? Because I have been told that right now it shouldn't work for anyone. And I made it clear that I was unsure about some of the things I claimed. So nothing I said was BS.

removed

From: elietu
Everything you said was bullshit. moving away from injection is stupid. Ive used color and it just plain sucks. CPU usage is way higher, scripts are useless. You implied on your post that barely anyone could use it and that thoughs that could got banned, which is all complete bs. Theres not even any ban threads showing proof in rarebot yet. Color bots are way more detectable then injection. Now thats a fact.

Go away then please. Your attitude is horrible and you are the type of person that we do not want.


/Thread(As said)

From: PatDuffy
Go away then please. Your attitude is horrible and you are the type of person that we do not want.


/Thread(As said)

Of course im going to have a bad attitude when you have people spreading nazi propaganda on why rarebot is bad even though its backed by nothing except the posters ass.

From: elietu
Of course im going to have a bad attitude when you have people spreading nazi propaganda on why rarebot is bad even though its backed by nothing except the posters ass.

I'm tired of this crap. Go use Rarebot if you wan't.

~Home

From: elietu
Everything you said was bullshit. moving away from injection is stupid. Ive used color and it just plain sucks. CPU usage is way higher, scripts are useless. You implied on your post that barely anyone could use it and that thoughs that could got banned, which is all complete bs. Theres not even any ban threads showing proof in rarebot yet. Color bots are way more detectable then injection. Now thats a fact.

Please at least show some proof to support back up your "facts".

From: elietu
Everything you said was bullshit. moving away from injection is stupid. Ive used color and it just plain sucks. CPU usage is way higher, scripts are useless. You implied on your post that barely anyone could use it and that thoughs that could got banned, which is all complete bs. Theres not even any ban threads showing proof in rarebot yet. Color bots are way more detectable then injection. Now thats a fact.

You seem to think that I am talking about the old injection/reflection bots.. Rarebot used a massive amount of CPU, (ran with 3fps for me on a computer that can run Skyrim) and they had an official thread about it stating that they were aware of this.

And all I said was that some people claim to be banned after using it, which is entirely possible as this bot is new and still not 100% bug free. And I never implied that barely anyone could use it, I clearly stated that some people can use it, not all. (which is 100% true, and the developers were aware of this)

Also the ban rate with Simba is very low, and I see no reason why a well made color script would be any more detectable than a well made injection script. Please educate me?

Jagex makes it hard for the bot-developers to keep this up to date I think.