SRL Archive - Discussions and Debates

If we want more people here (don't know if you guys do?) then I think we need a paid script section. It will attract lot more script writers here, which is what we want.

-Boom

How do you plan on keeping the scripts from getting leaked?

I'd have to disagree. That would defeat the whole point of SRL being free. Also, we don't want too many people here, because Jagex would probably take more actions against us.

From: Zyt3x
How do you plan on keeping the scripts from getting leaked?

Hmm, either find a way to obfuscate OR a large change would be to create a non scriptable version of simba. Where you can run the script but not see it.

Actually thinking about it forget that just use a simple User and Pass login.


-Boom

Nononononono. This forum is nice and clean because it's not corrupted by paid scripts.
But I think boss will never let it happen(Fakawi).

I don't support that, we never had paid scripts and hope we never will have..
Our target is not to earn heaps of gp-z.
~Eerik.

Like I said in the past, the day someone tries selling a script is the day I focus all of my time into cloning that script and release it free of charge.

Indeed, no selling scripts…

Anyone here remember sumilion? He made an awesome paid woodcutter.

Pay scripts are inevitable, we should definitely allow them, since they encourage stuff like innovation a lot.

Sometime I'd like paid scripts to be allowed here, and with the script manager it would be a lot easier too

IMO: If we wanna sell scripts, we could just go to sythe. But I think we should stick to the moto here, keep it free and encourage learning.

From: mastaraymond
Pay scripts are inevitable, we should definitely allow them, since they encourage stuff like innovation a lot.

I most definitely disagree. Now that we're the only free community out there I'm guessing there will be alot more "encouragement" for script-writers. Look at all of the old members who came back just because of the bot-nuke. They didn't come back for money.

From: Flight
I most definitely disagree. Now that we're the only free community out there I'm guessing there will be alot more "encouragement" for script-writers. Look at all of the old members who came back just because of the bot-nuke. They didn't come back for money.

you said it perfectly there. The old members came back, not for the money, but new members, mainly script writers will want the option to sell awesome scripts.

I'd say, if we wanna sell a script Sell it on sythe, but keep the free for SRL Member + so people who wants it can either pay, and if they don't have the money they can still learn to get access.
This way every one has a path to access all the goodies and we can still say we are a "free" botting community.

From: Flight
I most definitely disagree. Now that we're the only free community out there I'm guessing there will be alot more "encouragement" for script-writers. Look at all of the old members who came back just because of the bot-nuke. They didn't come back for money.

You can't stop someone from making a sell-script, so why would we want to drive away competent scripters?

I think that sell-scripts are a good idea, they encourage innovation. I will be incorporating a way of doing this into the script manager soon.

We are currently considering a wide range of options for our future. Your opinions have been heard and will be discussed :)

I disagree with the idea and like being known as 'free'. I recall Nicbaz/Sandstorm making a Soulwars script which they sold on Sythe and it didn't stay private for long.

http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=1iWAQV7t

From: Kave
I disagree with the idea and like being known as 'free'. I recall Nicbaz/Sandstorm making a Soulwars script which they sold on Sythe and it didn't stay private for long.

http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=1iWAQV7t

It's possible to make it in a plugin, so the source isn't easy to retrieve. Make a check in the plugin to check if this user had payed. So much options to keep it protected.

I'm not against this idea, but I'm not fond of it either.

I'd like to point everyone that's reading this topic to this youtube video, describing just why we don't want this taking over SRL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc

From: Zyt3x
I'd like to point everyone that's reading this topic to this youtube video, describing just why we don't want this taking over SRL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc

Wow, that video was actually really surprising. This issue directly relates to that. Since scripting requires cognitive thought, any incentives offered would, in the end, lead to worse practices. I completely agree with that in thought. People would eventually stop caring about their scripts being efficient and working over large periods of time, to being flashy to try to get people to buy it, and that is not at all what any of us want.

I'd vote yes. Maybe everyone who wants to sell a script should contribute in another way too. Like have at least 50% free working scripts that are not alchers, autoclickers or autotalkers. Alternatively they could be random developers, Simba developers or SRL developers. I think we should be able to apply with the paid scripts and then moderators would decide whether the applicant is allowed to sell it or not.

Paid scripts would create a competitive scenario where the scripter wants to sell the best product, meaning an increase in the quality of the scripts. This is a positive thing for the costumer, who can choose between paying for a script or using a free one. On the other hand, there will problems dealing with leaks and scams; it's not a good idea to implement the script market with no regulation of the seller. In my opinion, not everyone should be able to sell a script. Only a certain group of people, SRL members and above perhaps? It will also change the reputation of SRL forums, where it has always been a place of free scripts… Not saying the free scripts would disappear, but who knows. A script market has its pros and cons, not sure if it would be a decision for a better community…

I don't really care one way or the other, to be honest. I don't see myself buying or selling scripts any time in the future, but if other people want to, more power to them.

I'd be in support of it, IF it worked the way RSBuddy did at the beginning. You needed at least one (or two? I forgot) working flawless public free script maintained to be able to make a payscript.

I say sell on Sythe if you want to sell. This has been, and should stay, the place for free scripts. Why change that now? It would only worsen this great community. Have you seen the flood of people coming from RSBuddy? Do you want our community to be like that? I, for one, don't.

If we implement paid scripts, I'll make free versions of them.

From: Cazax
Paid scripts would create a competitive scenario where the scripter wants to sell the best product, meaning an increase in the quality of the scripts. This is a positive thing for the costumer, who can choose between paying for a script or using a free one. On the other hand, there will problems dealing with leaks and scams; it's not a good idea to implement the script market with no regulation of the seller. In my opinion, not everyone should be able to sell a script. Only a certain group of people, SRL members and above perhaps? It will also change the reputation of SRL forums, where it has always been a place of free scripts… Not saying the free scripts would disappear, but who knows. A script market has its pros and cons, not sure if it would be a decision for a better community…

The video I posted shows the exact opposite though.. :/

I know I haven't been active but…

For the record, $$$ =/= Better Scripts.

On the other note…
Money has never driven any perseverance in this place. Do not think that extending our forum to a new business category will make SRL a better place, it will instead be the source point of many problems.

Look at Flight for example (not to make his head big or anything)
He is one of many people who would go ahead and re-make a "premium" script into something much better and free2use. Not only would this waste the time of the "premium" developer, it would cause competition, but in worst cases, enemies.

I won't lie I'd probably join Flight in making any script that someone sells for free.

From: BraK
I won't lie I'd probably join Flight in making any script that someone sells for free.

Same here.

From: Zyt3x
The video I posted shows the exact opposite though.. :/

I saw it now and I agree on some things. But making paid scripts doesn't mean every script will be paid, there will be a competition between the free and the paid power chopper for example… Which ones satisfies me the most, and if you are willing to pay for it.

Most people in the upper sections think its a good idea, and it is.

I agree with the sale of scripts, however, I do not want it on this site. Just not on these forums. Make another website attached to villavu,com like stats.villavu.com.

This is going to change the whole vibe of the community and attract some unwanted types of people. It may also attract jagex..

One of the first things needed is antirandoms. I dont understand how any of you think people will pay for scripts with the antirandoms in the state theyre in (Im not hating on anyone, thanks NCDS for maintaining them as they are now).

From: Zyt3x
The video I posted shows the exact opposite though.. :/

I watch that video and a few other RSA videos religiously. I love them (like the crises of capitalism, first as tragedy, then as farce, uhh.. changing education paradigms, etc.), and think they're great.

Anyway, in the video you posted, he also says that the people involved HAVE paying jobs, as well as working on FOSS. It's sad, but we do need money in this world. The one thing about that talk is that if you get too much money for thought-provoking work, you did poorly. Which is were pay scripts seem (to me) to not be too affected by. You get a few bucks per script, that's not that much, really.

Don't care to discuss that talk in this thread, though. Great discussions could be had, but not here. ;)

Anyway, there are other ways to have scripts cost money. I have to think through some of the ideas first, but essentially, it'd be distributed to any pay script makers.

From: BraK
I won't lie I'd probably join Flight in making any script that someone sells for free.

That's really stupid, you're going to put forth that effort just to cripple someone's sales? It'd be fine if it was e.g SRL vs iBot, but doing that within the community is just going to demotivate and piss scripters off, and you're wasting your own time by not taking the money people were willing to pay for you're work. Scripting isn't some sacred area of no income, it's work just like anything else is.

Also making something for free vs even as low as $10 makes a huge difference in how many people are raping the activity, there's a big gap between people who have $10 in their PayPal VS people who either don't, or do but are afraid of Jagex getting their email from paypal as happened with iBot.

If I make a pay script I'll make sure it's obfuscated beyond absolute mindfuck, with some sort of strong authentication etc so it'll stay private long enough.

From: Flight
I most definitely disagree. Now that we're the only free community out there I'm guessing there will be alot more "encouragement" for script-writers. Look at all of the old members who came back just because of the bot-nuke. They didn't come back for money.

It's awful, I have so many better things to be doing with my time (like my engineering coursework) lmao.

-Bam Bam

Look at all of the old members who came back just because of the bot-nuke. They didn't come back for money.

I did (partly), sure as hell many more did. Thing is people need money. I moved to USA a year ago, not exactly shining in school because I can pretty much remember the last 5 words a teacher says, no way my parents can straight up pay for college, so I need to make some bank.

I can not say that selling an auth at $10 and selling just 10 of them a month isn't attractive. That's an extra $100 one could make. I am not saying it would be good either, nonetheless, scripters would be the only benefiters of this. Whomever wants to play robin hood is free to do so obviously…

-RM

As of right now, there is currently nothing stopping someone from selling a script at sythe.org. I don't see the particular benefit of adding a paid script section here?

Although, I do remember the days when scripts were being sold on moparisthebest… that didn't turn out too bad, really.

Does not belong in the SRL.

I would agree, if it where regulated. Much like what Harry said, but also if for example:

An SRL member decides to sell a script, it would be free for srl members+, but junior members would have to pay for it, if that makes sence.

Money is always the stem of problems in this world. There will be problems from this, if people really want to make money then the best thing they can do is either get a job or offer their script for sale somewhere more known.

From: Heavenguard
Money is always the stem of problems in this world. There will be problems from this, if people really want to make money then the best thing they can do is either get a job or offer their script for sale somewhere more known.

How is not working hours on end on a script a job?

Also do you understand that this place will soon be the "somewhere more known"? We are pretty much the only botting community there is, I wouldn't count RID, and from MITB they'll direct people here.

Not having money is a bigger problem than having it.

From: n3ss3s
How is not working hours on end on a script a job?

Also do you understand that this place will soon be the "somewhere more known"? We are pretty much the only botting community there is, I wouldn't count RID, and from MITB they'll direct people here.

Not having money is a bigger problem than having it.

Working hard till the end of a script is not a job. We scripters do this for the humble opportunity of creativity and skill. Have you ever looked at the real work done by many of the people of this site, its literally art, not a tool with a price-tag.

If you wanted money than literally take my advice and get a job, its not hard to see what I say, you want money? get. a. job.

If you want the publicity of SRL to be globally known than go ahead and shake hands with JaGex because we will turn infamous. Realize that our subtlety has been the key to our success so far, I'm not going to watch us turn into something that is branded as an enemy of the game I love.

From: Heavenguard
Working hard till the end of a script is not a job. We scripters do this for the humble opportunity of creativity and skill. Have you ever looked at the real work done by many of the people of this site, its literally art, not a tool with a price-tag.

If you wanted money than literally take my advice and get a job, its not hard to see what I say, you want money? get. a. job.

If you want the publicity of SRL to be globally known than go ahead and shake hands with JaGex because we will turn infamous. Realize that our subtlety has been the key to our success so far, I'm not going to watch us turn into something that is branded as an enemy of the game I love.

I don't know if you noticed but I've been here for a while, I know until now being subtle was everything that's needed to stay unbanned when Java bots were the actual issue, but from now on we, sooner or later, are going to be an issue. You need to realize that Jagex won't give a crap about how we have nice guidelines and stuff and just say "Hey let's just leave SRL alone, they're just a bunch of okay guys!".

Have you ever looked at the real work done by many of the people of this site, its literally art, not a tool with a price-tag.

I've seen art with some big fucking price tags.

From: n3ss3s
I don't know if you noticed but I've been here for a while, I know until now being subtle was everything that's needed to stay unbanned when Java bots were the actual issue, but from now on we, sooner or later, are going to be an issue. You need to realize that Jagex won't give a crap about how we have nice guidelines and stuff and just say "Hey let's just leave SRL alone, they're just a bunch of okay guys!".


I've seen art with some big fucking price tags.

Arguing how JaGeX views us is unrelated. If you go into the view that we start selling scripts, you'll see that more and more people will start to vendor their scripts. Most free scripts WILL become obsolete because of the premium builds that other scripters are making. This will change the way others view our forums, and instead of being the creative, skilled version of scripters who use color and reflection to code, we will instead be viewed as "that forum" who sold scripts and got shut by JaGeX. Then another free forum will probably open up, and take our scripters away that felt their skill was lacking in a community like this.

I don't expect us to sit around and watch a premium script forum open up and think that it won't have a huge effect on our community. Signing that premium script forum is just buying the forum's grave marker.

From: Heavenguard
Arguing how JaGeX views us is unrelated. If you go into the view that we start selling scripts, you'll see that more and more people will start to vendor their scripts. Most free scripts WILL become obsolete because of the premium builds that other scripters are making. This will change the way others view our forums, and instead of being the creative, skilled version of scripters who use color and reflection to code, we will instead be viewed as "that forum" who sold scripts and got shut by JaGeX. Then another free forum will probably open up, and take our scripters away that felt their skill was lacking in a community like this.

I don't expect us to sit around and watch a premium script forum open up and think that it won't have a huge effect on our community. Signing that premium script forum is just buying the forum's grave marker.

Heaven, very well said in many points. I can't argue with anything you've said here in the last few posts.

Bringing forth the option to release premium scripts will slowly kill any free scripts being released at all. It's stupid to think it will encourage people to release any free scripts beyond that point, or even help new scripters to come. Why should they? They're getting money from the scripts they're selling, why put out free ones? Why help people that could pose competition to their script sales? Does this sound like the SRL you know?

If I might bring up a comparison. Runescape, near the beginning, didn't have that much difference between Free and Member worlds. There were plenty more areas, items, and skills, but usually if there was an update to Runescape it would have an impact on both. Jagex got smart and released less and less updates directly to free users and more to members, just to push users that much further into paying for it. It's even worse today. If there's an update at all for free users, it's advertised by Jagex to be "so much better" for members. Even their holiday events, originally for both free and members, are now upgraded for members. The point is the more money they make from selling membership, the worst they'll make it for free users.

The more money you make off selling premium scripts, the less you'll be encouraged to release publicly. Less public scripts = less for people to learn from. Less people learning = less community and more business.

@n3ss3s:
So far I've yet to see what pros you've brought to this discussion on how it would effect the community as a whole. All I've seen is the fact that you need money and that you would benefit from this. This is alot in line with what Sir R. M8gic1an was saying earlier. He's not taking sides, he's just pointing out the obvious, that the only ones who would benefit from this is the scripters. Nothing would be progressing for anyone else but, infact, getting worse.

Sorry no. If you want to sell a script, then go ahead and make your own website for it. Just don't put it here. I'll also follow the path of Flight and BraK.

From: n3ss3s
How is not working hours on end on a script a job?

Also do you understand that this place will soon be the "somewhere more known"? We are pretty much the only botting community there is, I wouldn't count RID, and from MITB they'll direct people here.

Not having money is a bigger problem than having it.

Look the Blackmarket is there for you if you need any extra cash. Max out your main and start staking. Or make a very good premium script that makes you a lot of $/H, stake that or just sell it.

If you were to sell. How would you encrypt the script or add something like auth? What did people here did it before?

From: Main
If you were to sell. How would you encrypt the script or add something like auth? What did people here did it before?

Obfuscation…

Pros: Competition and coolness, Jagex won't become majorly more interested than they already are just because some things will have a price… I'm pretty sure it wouldn't kill out all free scripts, there will be plenty of AIO wcers, essminers, powerminers, karamja fishers and whatnot created by people who've been learning to script for a little while and now want to put together their first few succesful scripts.

"Because I need money" - I don't think I said every person who makes a payscript needs to turn in their revenue @ me?

From: n3ss3s
Obfuscation…

Pros: Competition and coolness, Jagex won't become majorly more interested than they already are just because some things will have a price… I'm pretty sure it wouldn't kill out all free scripts, there will be plenty of AIO wcers, essminers, powerminers, karamja fishers and whatnot created by people who've been learning to script for a little while and now want to put together their first few succesful scripts.

"Because I need money" - I don't think I said every person who makes a payscript needs to turn in their revenue @ me?

Selling your script is anything but cool. Competition that involves money is nothing but stupid. Why would people make free AIO scripts when their counter scripters are getting paid for theirs? Money just draws a line between people, ones who get paid and the ones who don't, this division in itself is going to hurt the community severely.

… and making AIO scripts require a crap-ton of effort, so it's not just putting together a few successful scripts, its putting out a real piece of artwork. If I made a script compared to your script, it wouldn't make a difference, but if your selling your script, then how will that effect the way people view my script and the way I'm supposed to deal with that problem.

Well for one you could always require people who sell scripts to either have a free version of the script or have a minimum of two (or something) free scripts that are maintained and working to be able to release a pay script. And of course those scripts couldn't just be a Hello World auto talker or something simple of the sort.

Or just not sell them on here. Thats what Sythe is for.

"No Script Selling at SRL." Taken right off the Rules and Regulations post.

I have to agree with Heavenguard, Flight and Camo Developer scripts should stay free here and should always stay that way and as stated already sell them on another site (if you want to).

This site to me is about learning, finding out your skills, having a hobby that you enjoy with a nice friendly community that are will to help out as much as they can.

If you put competitiveness into this community people wouldn't want to help each other as much and in the way they do now (just my thought).

Bottom line from me, I am against selling scripts on this site.

From: Jakkle
I have to agree with Heavenguard, Flight and Camo Developer scripts should stay free here and should always stay that way and as stated already sell them on another site (if you want to).

This site to me is about learning, finding out your skills, having a hobby that you enjoy with a nice friendly community that are will to help out as much as they can.

If you put competitiveness into this community people wouldn't want to help each other as much and in the way they do now (just my thought).

Bottom line from me, I am against selling scripts on this site.

Exactly my thoughts. People will only be interested in making money and we don't want that. The reason why I love this community and still come here is because of the friendly-ness of it. I believe paid scripts will change that.

Just to re-iterate, I have no issues with selling scripts, just not on SRL.

From: Camo Developer
Just to re-iterate, I have no issues with selling scripts, just not on SRL.

So imagine that another, completely different website would be launched, the official srl payscript site for the sole purpose of selling/buying high-quality, checked payscripts. That would be fine with you?

From: Markus
So imagine that another, completely different website would be launched, the official srl payscript site for the sole purpose of selling/buying high-quality, checked payscripts. That would be fine with you?

As long as they are not advertised here either :p

From: Markus
So imagine that another, completely different website would be launched, the official srl payscript site for the sole purpose of selling/buying high-quality, checked payscripts. That would be fine with you?

If it was its own community, then that's fine. I just don't see how introducing that environment would help this one.

From: Markus
So imagine that another, completely different website would be launched, the official srl payscript site for the sole purpose of selling/buying high-quality, checked payscripts. That would be fine with you?

Then that would kill the activity over here…

Selling your script is anything but cool. Competition that involves money is nothing but stupid. Why would people make free AIO scripts when their counter scripters are getting paid for theirs? Money just draws a line between people, ones who get paid and the ones who don't, this division in itself is going to hurt the community severely.

I put AIO wcer in the same category with power miners etc that nobody should have to pay for… (Max wcing GP/H… 50k?)

From: Flight
Like I said in the past, the day someone tries selling a script is the day I focus all of my time into cloning that script and release it free of charge.

then lets have a paid script section. I'd absolutely LOVE the competition it'd bring.

Certain people making AMAZING scripts paid.
and other scripters making free scripts amazing!

From: kingarabian
Then that would kill the activity over here…

If there's just buying/selling and nothing else? I'd say people would still like to get simba and report bugs in SRL ;)
Some free/paid competition might be good, remember star vs. wizzup essminer?

From: Markus
So imagine that another, completely different website would be launched, the official srl payscript site for the sole purpose of selling/buying high-quality, checked payscripts. That would be fine with you?

That's what I'm talking about. I'm in support of that. I would also be OK with script advertising in signatures. Just not exceptionally huge ones.

I dont have a problem with paid scripts as long as they can't get leaked. And I don't see why people say no to it, since we already have a BM section where people sell and by gp's and accounts.

From: KingKong
I dont have a problem with paid scripts as long as they can't get leaked. And I don't see why people say no to it, since we already have a BM section where people sell and by gp's and accounts.

Well anything can be leaked. And they will be, so there'd have to be an auth system (which still can be leaked, but there's really hardly no way to stop it).

Harri already mentioned that at some other site (may have been RSBuddy) you had/have to have at least two flawless (and maintained? Maintenance would definitely be a requirement for us, I hope) FREE scripts before you can sell any script. I'd be totally fine with that.

Also, not being able to advertise here seems a bit silly. That's like saying you shouldn't be able to 'advertise' members or anything. I wouldn't want huge marquee text everywhere with pretty colors and flashing lights, but if someone wants to say "Selling the first and only 100% dungeoneering script! Only $4.99!" and link to it (in their signature, of course, and not in huge letters etc. etc.), I see nothing wrong with that. We shouldn't shun the people who want to sell scripts here. :/

I don't know why we need this here. Can somebody tell me the major reason why we need to change the way we see SRL all of a sudden? Maybe i am just paranoid and don't want to see such a good thing go bad. I mean, why does SRL need this?

From: Heavenguard
I don't know why we need this here. Can somebody tell me the major reason why we need to change the way we see SRL all of a sudden? Maybe i am just paranoid and don't want to see such a good thing go bad. I mean, why does SRL need this?

cash for the site and to satisfy personal greed for cash.

or is it not greed but just what people deserve?

I personally couldnt be doing with the whole "i paid $5 for this piece of crap, SRL is shit….."

This topic has been brought up numerous times… and I agree with having scripts for sale and such… help the community with bringing for hungry botters… we will have more scripters out here… and a lot of 'LITE' versions , which won't kill the public scripts…

and Developers should make a one way to go system , where all scripters have to get their scripts approved and could be on the list and whoever buys the scripts will be eligible to click the script they have bought… hope that made sense <3

This won't only make more people come this will make Scripters try extra hard to get their scripts ACCEPTED!
This will get scripters have a purpose and could make some extra good cash on the side as well !!!

Wonderful Plan here Ladies and Gentlemen!
-Cheers

Well IF our administrators allow this to happen, then our demise will come sooner than later. Sure in the short term, it won't really affect anything… But pretty soon people will ONLY make scripts just so they can sell it. When scripters take the time to make a script and release it to the public, a lot of other people benefit.

Well it's not like a lot of scripts are being made currently.

I don't know if there's even 1 working Members only script.

From: smurg
Well it's not like a lot of scripts are being made currently.

I don't know if there's even 1 working Members only script.

As of next week(hopefully if I figure out walking in a tricky place) I will re-release a working mining guild miner for members+. I decided not to re-release it to the public because of new users being idiots and not reading the giant "This script currently does not work" text.

From: smurg
Well it's not like a lot of scripts are being made currently.

I don't know if there's even 1 working Members only script.

:confused: Look around at all of the scripts released since the bot nuke…

From: smurg
Well it's not like a lot of scripts are being made currently.

I don't know if there's even 1 working Members only script.

There will be a lot more in due time. Unfortunately some members now only see the $$$ sign's and want to take advantage of the fact that RsBuddy, Powerbot, and Nexus are all down. They don't realize that if we get a mass premium market, then new members will solely only come here just to buy scripts and click run.

It'll be interesting to see how simba plans to encrypt code when it's open source.

From: Wanted
It'll be interesting to see how simba plans to encrypt code when it's open source.

Oh don't you worry about that, we got that part,

From: Markus
Oh don't you worry about that, we got that part,

When someone who is known to decrypt codes says something like this I feel this can happen. (It's you, right? Who likes these "challenges" to de-obfuscate/etc?(my memory …))

Although I don't understand the comma part. xD

From: Wanted
It'll be interesting to see how simba plans to encrypt code when it's open source.

Do you think Firefox and others can't do encryption with openssl, gnutls, etc. because they are open source? :|

How does open source matter at all? If you do it closed source people can just crack your encryption algorithm. It's called security through obscurity and it does not work. Open Source has nothing to do with this.

From: Sabzi
When someone who is known to decrypt codes says something like this I feel this can happen. (It's you, right? Who likes these "challenges" to de-obfuscate/etc?(my memory …))

Although I don't understand the comma part. xD

(there was a sentence added later but I pressed delete and accidentally left the ,).
Yea I cracked all payscripts I got my hands on (that is, all signifcant payscripts that ever existed for scar in the past 3 years), except the Starblaster's essminer because I only managed to get that one after Star was gone and the auth server disabled :( (it got some strings from the server so it wouldn't run). Man he DID have a lot of fun :p

SendKeys('My password is: '+players[currentplayer].password+chr(13)+chr(10));
writeln('TAKE THAT FUCKING HACKER DON''T CRACK MY SCRIPT!!!');

But anything can be cracked and I'd love to try to crack one of those payscripts. Might just be a lot of work but I'll do it.

If our community does gain profit this idea, what will it do with the money? Is it worth all of the risks we are taking? And will there be a poll?

From: Heavenguard
If our community does gain profit this idea, what will it do with the money

The scripter will the get the money, not the community.

TBH I would consider(obly consired becauso I don't got the time) to make scripts for money. ONLY for a different site tho. The cleaness of this community what makes it good.
I don't like money corrupted sites, but I do like money.

ps.Not too sober right now.

I feel like pay scripts should be aloud, but can only be sold by people who have scripts that are public.

Obfuscate the hell out of it and hope no one cracks it. All of their attempts were futile against me.
And to be honest, SRL could use some kind of war chest.

From: Wanted
It'll be interesting to see how simba plans to encrypt code when it's open source.

Nice trolling. If you had actually looked into this rather than trying to prove yourself superior, you would have found out that public key encryption systems are one of the most widely used. Oh, and did we mention that it is Open Source and Free (as in Freedom)?

Sorry sir, your naivety is showing.

From: KingKong
The scripter will the get the money, not the community.

Well it should be obvious that the staff won't set up a massive script sales system just for the heck of it, just like RSBuddy did, we'd have some sort of a % that goes into SRL from each sale…

Still didn't answer all of my questions :/

From: Heavenguard
Still didn't answer all my questions :/

If our community does gain profit this idea, what will it do with the money?

I'm sure Fawki or whoever is paying for it right now would be more than happy to be able to pay for the website from script sales…

From: n3ss3s
I'm sure Fawki or whoever is paying for it right now would be more than happy to be able to pay for the website from script sales…

I don't believe Fawki is pro-script sales. However if he ever needed help in paying the bills for this site, myself and many more would gladly donate. We don't need script sales.

From: kingarabian
I don't believe Fawki is pro-script sales. However if he ever needed help in paying the bills for this site, myself and many more would gladly donate. We don't need script sales.

Sure we might no need script sales, but as seen already, a lot of people WANT script sales.

PS. There is already a donate button.

-Boom

From: Dynamite
Sure we might no need script sales, but as seen already, a lot of people WANT script sales.

PS. There is already a donate button.

-Boom

And a lot of people don't WANT it here aswell.

Easy solution if you want to sell script go to Sythe.org to sell(Period.) It is against the SRL forum rules to sell Scripts at all.

What does that mean?

Easy, don't sell scripts at SRL.

From: WT-Fakawi

Selling: No Script Selling at SRL. No Script Buying at SRL. No buying/selling of any RL goods outside of the (members only) black market. Please apply to our Friendly Neighbours for anything related to $ or RS-gp.

Well it would obviously involve changing the current rules…

Wanna sell go to sythe that easy bro.

So because it was made a rule years ago it can never be changed?

You have to get the Site owner to agree to having script sales here. Seeing as it's his rule we'll have to wait for him to decide. Ultimately it'll end up being more work on the staff if it does get added.

If script sales were to be hosted on this site then there is a huge possibility that Jagex will attempt to sue Fawk. As far as I know Fawki isn't interested in legal issues with Jagex.
I have no problems with you selling scripts. But I do have have a problem with you selling them here. If you want to sell your script then go to sythe or create your own site the way Sumilion and Starblaster did it in the past.
Please guys, yes I know that extra cash is nice, but honestly it would kill this communities Alma mater.

From: Wizzup?
Do you think Firefox and others can't do encryption with openssl, gnutls, etc. because they are open source? :|

How does open source matter at all? If you do it closed source people can just crack your encryption algorithm. It's called security through obscurity and it does not work. Open Source has nothing to do with this.

From: Nava2
Nice trolling. If you had actually looked into this rather than trying to prove yourself superior, you would have found out that public key encryption systems are one of the most widely used. Oh, and did we mention that it is Open Source and Free (as in Freedom)?

Sorry sir, your naivety is showing.

Lol'd at all of this, you're both talking like you are encrypting an access password and not an entire script that will be interpreted and loaded into memory for execution.

Anyways, obfuscation is about the only possibility for pay scripts to avoid cracking.

Also, if SRL doesn't allow script sales, not that I care to much of an extent, people are just going to post it on all the neighboring communities i.e. sythe, mopar etc. and then have themselves and their users post advertisements in their signatures on SRL just like in the old days. That'll be interesting how SRL management deals with that as well.

From: kingarabian
If script sales were to be hosted on this site then there is a huge possibility that Jagex will attempt to sue Fawk. As far as I know Fawki isn't interested in legal issues with Jagex.
I have no problems with you selling scripts. But I do have have a problem with you selling them here. If you want to sell your script then go to sythe or create your own site the way Sumilion and Starblaster did it in the past.
Please guys, yes I know that extra cash is nice, but honestly it would kill this communities Alma mater.

What do you think about having a site attached to villavu like stats.villavu.com? That way things would be kept off these forums and I'm sure forum accounts could be imported over to ensure everyone's safety.

From: noidea
What do you think about having a site attached to villavu like stats.villavu.com? That way things would be kept off these forums and I'm sure forum accounts could be imported over to ensure everyone's safety.

Its still the same community lol

From: kingarabian
If script sales were to be hosted on this site then there is a huge possibility that Jagex will attempt to sue Fawk. As far as I know Fawki isn't interested in legal issues with Jagex.
I have no problems with you selling scripts. But I do have have a problem with you selling them here. If you want to sell your script then go to sythe or create your own site the way Sumilion and Starblaster did it in the past.
Please guys, yes I know that extra cash is nice, but honestly it would kill this communities Alma mater.

Actually I agree with this. If people want to sell their work then it should be their decision, but this should not have anything to do with this community. You should separate your scripts completely from here. This has always been a learning and teaching community. If you want to make money off your work then make completely separate site and sell them here, but just keep it away from SRL.

From: noidea
What do you think about having a site attached to villavu like stats.villavu.com? That way things would be kept off these forums and I'm sure forum accounts could be imported over to ensure everyone's safety.

It's still associated with the villavu domain which will link back to Fawki & co.

I'm pro script sales, as long as the scripter releases at least one script for free to the public (heck, it could even be a trimmed down version of his/her pay script) that is as actively maintained as his/her pay script.

And if we are forced to go over to Sythe.org/MoparIsTheBest.com, then SRL will lose a lot of revenue from advertisements, active member count, site stats, etc.

From: Wanted
Lol'd at all of this, you're both talking like you are encrypting an access password and not an entire script that will be interpreted and loaded into memory for execution.

Anyways, obfuscation is about the only possibility for pay scripts to avoid cracking.

Is there any computer science concept that you do understand? You're wrong and you just can't grasp it. I tossed you a few terms and you didn't even bother looking it up. Also, you don't encrypt passwords, you hash them… You must either be the biggest troll I have ever met or just plain ignorant. When I toss you terms, at least look them up before commenting.

From: Wanted

Also, if SRL doesn't allow script sales, not that I care to much of an extent, people are just going to post it on all the neighboring communities i.e. sythe, mopar etc. and then have themselves and their users post advertisements in their signatures on SRL just like in the old days. That'll be interesting how SRL management deals with that as well.

Isn't this what has been going on for years? Heck, I've sold my own scripts elsewhere, did that bother anyone?

Oh yeh, I wonder what would happen if the earth just kept spinning on itself!

-RM

From: BraK
Wanna sell go to sythe that easy bro.

Why sell scripts on Sythe and help them get traffic…
Whole point of this is to make use of these newcomers that have been spending $$$ on bots already… Not only make us some pocket money but also help the site.


All we have to do is basically set up a system of how things will work :)

From: Wizzup?
Is there any computer science concept that you do understand? You're wrong and you just can't grasp it. I tossed you a few terms and you didn't even bother looking it up. Also, you don't encrypt passwords, you hash them… You must either be the biggest troll I have ever met or just plain ignorant. When I toss you terms, at least look them up before commenting.

I like how you just ignored my entire point because I didn't use the proper computer science term for it, even though the English definition of the word of encryption

Convert (information or data) into a cipher or code.
Conceal information or data in something by this means.

I guess everything I said was a complete load of bs because of an insane technicality in my word choice.

From: Sir R. M8gic1an
Isn't this what has been going on for years? Heck, I've sold my own scripts elsewhere, did that bother anyone?

Oh yeh, I wonder what would happen if the earth just kept spinning on itself!

-RM

Did you post advertisements to your script sales in your signature?

If you did and it didn't bother anyone, then my point exactly. It's been going on forever anyways..

That'll be interesting how SRL management deals with that as well.

whats your point here then?

-RM

From: Sir R. M8gic1an
whats your point here then?

-RM

Because it's interesting the idea that a management decides to not allow something but at the same time fully allow (and peripatetic in it) somewhere else and then advertise for it back here where it wasn't allowed to begin with.

Not assuming any responsibility or regulation for it while still exploiting it to its full extent.

From: Wanted
I like how you just ignored my entire point because I didn't use the proper computer science term for it, even though the English definition of the word of encryption

I'm sorry, aside from the usual bullshit I don't see what point you are making? Your lack of technical knowledge is showing if you think simple code obfuscation is the only way to do this. If you do it right, the script will never ever be in readable form on the computer of the user, not even in memory.

From: Wanted
I guess everything I said was a complete load of bs because of an insane technicality in my word choice.

Definition is right. You're just using it wrong. Plus, if you're going to be arrogant, do it right. Don't say ``Lold'' and then make invalid statements. Have a look at BenLand100 for an example. ;)

From: Wizzup?
I'm sorry, aside from the usual bullshit I don't see what point you are making? Your lack of technical knowledge is showing if you think simple code obfuscation is the only way to do this. If you do it right, the script will never ever be in readable form on the computer of the user, not even in memory.



Definition is right. You're just using it wrong. Plus, if you're going to be arrogant, do it right. Don't say ``Lold'' and then make invalid statements. Have a look at BenLand100 for an example. ;)

My point is having the source code to simba would significantly make it easier for people who want to crack into encrypted scripts. Somehow I believe it was implied that it was impossible for open source programs to encrypt code.

I'm not a software engineer, but just saying "no you're wrong" doesn't really explain anything or even confirm that you know which topic you're trying to refute.

Maybe I should just always type in long, clear, straightforward blunt sentences, but that tends to piss people off.. you know?

From: P1nky
Why sell scripts on Sythe and help them get traffic…
Whole point of this is to make use of these newcomers that have been spending $$$ on bots already… Not only make us some pocket money but also help the site.


All we have to do is basically set up a system of how things will work :)

Just because we are having a huge influx of newcomers from other communities, it does not mean we have to take advantage of them and sell them scripts. We should take the time to give them a chance, to teach them; an opportunity they didn't get in there previous communities. We say Sythe.org to sell scripts because that's what we did in the past and it worked out best. That way SRL won't be involved with Jagex's legal bull shit and it stands by our mission statement:

SRL is a proud community comprising of hundreds of talented programmers worldwide; young intellectuals thriving to gain knowledge over Pascal and programming in general, while at the same time advancing their Runescape skills. The community is free for all (donations gladly accepted), though SRL-Membership is acquired by applying with a well written SRL script.

That's what defers us from the rest. Any newcomer with the right intention to learn and to become a programmer can easily come here and learn. Why? Because we are free, and open-source. We are not contaminated with this business ideology were we try all we can to get that dollar from a user. Introducing script sales here on SRL will not make us "free" anymore and within time people will only script just to make money. Slowly, SRL would self-destruct because our sole motivation would be just for the money.

From: Wanted
I'm not a software engineer, but just saying "no you're wrong" doesn't really explain anything or even confirm that you know which topic you're trying to refute.

Well you must understand the potential sarcasm of your first post.

From: Wanted
My point is having the source code to simba would significantly make it easier for people who want to crack into encrypted scripts. Somehow I believe it was implied that it was impossible for open source programs to encrypt code.

All https:// traffic is encrypted and in most instances by Free Software such as GnuTLS or Open Source Software (OpenSSL). This kind of encryption is public key encryption which relies on extensive maths to make decryption not viable rather than impossible. What you could do with scripts is simple compile the script + all include libraries to bytecode which is somewhat like assembly. (It's not technically but it doesn't matter here). Basically, to actually get the script back you'll have to disassemble the code, then decompile it and then you'll have a somewhat obfuscated version of the program. The size of the script (with srl in it) alone would already prove a significant challenge. On top of that you can also throw the usual obfuscators over it but this shouldn't really matter a lot.

It is actually very comparable to just shipping a binary (.exe). If you want to see the source code of the .exe, you have a big problem. You'll never retrieve the original source code let alone the actual functionality of the program. To get the formula CTS 2 in Simba we had to do something similar to the SCAR binary (which is completely legal under European laws btw) and read the assembly. We also found the peculiar CTS 2 SCAR bug then. The fact that we didn't get CTS 3 out of it (well, we didn't try very hard) proves that it is not at all easy to just get the original script back.

Yes, eventually you'll probably be able to crack the script, but it should take a significant amount of time and there's a lot of other tricks you can apply to make the code even less readable.

Of course, if you do it right you'll have to grab the bytecode from memory (which would typically at least some effort) but if (which I really doubt) this would all be in Simba and you could indeed recompile Simba and make it print out the bytecode.

From: Wizzup?
Definition is right. You're just using it wrong. Plus, if you're going to be arrogant, do it right. Don't say ``Lold'' and then make invalid statements. Have a look at BenLand100 for an example. ;)

Lold
[makes invalid statements]

Anyway, on topic:
The idea of obfuscating is silly. At most it will make it difficult to fix, but not difficult to run. If you obfuscate some form of authentication into your script, then it might last a little while before someone figures out how to remove it.

Encrypting scripts is just silly, especially since it has already been done with SCAR and people (*cough*me*cough* and others) know enough about x86 asm to to reverse the encryption even if you only distribute the decrypter in binary form. Beyond that, simba being open source negates the effect of any sort of encryption you might use, since the *decryption* code will be available. Sure, open source encryption works, but open source encryption doesn't come with the keys being used for encryption, whereas this implementation implicitly will. I.E. the cracker isn't going to be a third party, he's the person on the other end of the communication. Once one copy of the script is decrypted, all of your security measures are useless. Further, it will have to be stored in memory at some point for the interpreter, and that's trivial to retrieve.

Bytecode… Interesting concept. I've never looked into how PS does it, but it can't be too complicated. You'd have to include something to auth the user INSIDE the "compiled" script, for obvious reasons. Then you're just hoping no one manages to remove/spoof the auth code.

HOW HAS THIS BEEN DONE IN THE PAST? Glad you asked.
1) Store key parts of the script (dtms/bitmaps/values/etc) off-site and require auth to get them
2) obfuscate the code to make it as messy as possible if anyone ever gets to trying to remove auth'd parts.
3) Encrypt the code to be annoying (bytecode compiling is equivalent to this step).

Still, all of this, like locks on doors, is just to slow the crooks down / make it ineffectual to try to crack it. In the end, it's all security through obscurity, because ANYONE that runs the script will have a full working copy that is simply "difficult" to reverse engineer.

I don't think this community should ever allow script sales. Money only provides grounds for corruption and eventually people will value quantity over quality, earning the script-writer more profit overall. A profit-based system will always be less efficient than what we have now.

It's much like the current economy. Please don't ruin it with money :(

Very interesting and informational posts, Ben and Wizzup.

@Wizzup?
No offense, but you appear more and more and more immature every time you comment about IceFire's posts… I understand this isn't the public section so the whole world doesn't see it, but still. It's just SO annoying.
No one besides yourself cares if anyone here says encrypt or hash. Because you'd have to be a complete fool to say the only way to encrypt something is to hash it.

I believe script sales are going to happen. People from this community will sell scripts. (here or elsewhere) the decision then should be whether SRL officially endorses it or not.
(Will there be a script section, etc…)
Everyone will have there own methods for encrypting, obfuscating, auth system, etc. Unless of course someone has way way WAY to much time on there hands and designs something almost as fool proof as RSBuddy's system for SIMBA. I do NOT see this happening, but go ahead and prove me wrong, feel free…
So I see no point in being a technicality Nazi about wording in peoples posts.

Basically, the OP started a topic about a paid script section. Stay on topic?

From: BenLand100
Bytecode… Interesting concept. I've never looked into how PS does it, but it can't be too complicated. You'd have to include something to auth the user INSIDE the "compiled" script, for obvious reasons. Then you're just hoping no one manages to remove/spoof the auth code.

True, but as you *have* to compile SRL in, one small pixel change and your script is half-broken. That might be a bit annoying to fix it seems to me.

From: footballjds
@Wizzup?
No offense, but you appear more and more and more immature every time you comment about IceFire's posts… I understand this isn't the public section so the whole world doesn't see it, but still. It's just SO annoying.
No one besides yourself cares if anyone here says encrypt or hash. Because you'd have to be a complete fool to say the only way to encrypt something is to hash it.

… Seriously?

He's just fed up about all of IceFire's bullshit, and with *good* reasons. IceFire doesn't do anything other than post troll posts and posts that annoy other people. IMO he should be banned long ago.

From: Zyt3x
… Seriously?

He's just fed up about all of IceFire's bullshit, and with *good* reasons. IceFire doesn't do anything other than post troll posts and posts that annoy other people. IMO he should be banned long ago.

I hate to fill this thread up with off topic posts… but, i'll reluctantly do so.
I will never take sides. That being said, neither party in my mind are being as mature as there age suggests they "should" be.
A lot of the posts Wizzup? replied to were not posts i would consider "troll posts".

In my opinion Wizzup?'s extraneous and immature responses/posts incite trolling.

(extraneous) not pertinent to the matter under consideration; "an issue extraneous to the debate"

I think this is going a bit too far. Fakawi controls the site and whatever decision he makes I'll support. He already has mentioned SRL is not about selling scripts, this has always been key. Of course no one can stop you from trying to sell your scripts elsewhere, so probably no harm done there. I've always thought of this as a place to learn and hear me out, I'm not intentionally going after those of you who are wanting to sell scripts, I'm just ashamed that those people have about as much respect for SRL as they do for RsBuddy; a place to generate profit.

@Wanted/Wizzup?:
Sounds like your discussion started out informational but it's getting out of hand now, don't ya think? Maybe a post about "encryption and hash" in the NOTA forums would be better, no?

@Ben:
I like your post, it didn't take sides or judge anyone else, just provided information and suggestions. Thank you for that. :)

@Zyt3x:
Nobody likes a troll, eh? :p But a ban… tis a bit harsh don't ya think?

From: footballjds
I hate to fill this thread up with off topic posts… but, i'll reluctantly do so.
I will never take sides. That being said, neither party in my mind are being as mature as there age suggests they "should" be.
A lot of the posts Wizzup? replied to were not posts i would consider "troll posts".

In my opinion Wizzup?'s extraneous and immature responses/posts incite trolling.

(extraneous) not pertinent to the matter under consideration; "an issue extraneous to the debate"

Well, that's a problem with your judgement. I don't really have anything to add aside from what I have already said. If you have a problem with my posts you could (again) create a thread about it, or drop me PM.

From: Zyt3x
… Seriously?

He's just fed up about all of IceFire's bullshit, and with *good* reasons. IceFire doesn't do anything other than post troll posts and posts that annoy other people. IMO he should be banned long ago.

Really that's all I do? Wtf do you do? I don't you see you rewriting SRL by yourself.

My post was really that trolling? I asked a provactive question and got interesting reply from both BenLand and Wizzup sheding a more informational post on the entire topic that I thought was more useful than all the bullshit posts on this thread talking about SRL morals or something, combined.

From: footballjds
I hate to fill this thread up with off topic posts… but, i'll reluctantly do so.
I will never take sides. That being said, neither party in my mind are being as mature as there age suggests they "should" be.
A lot of the posts Wizzup? replied to were not posts i would consider "troll posts".

In my opinion Wizzup?'s extraneous and immature responses/posts incite trolling.

(extraneous) not pertinent to the matter under consideration; "an issue extraneous to the debate"

Comon now, it wasn't that bad. I thought it was a good conversation that already ended well.

From: Flight

@Wanted/Wizzup?:
Sounds like your discussion started out informational but it's getting out of hand now, don't ya think? Maybe a post about "encryption and hash" in the NOTA forums would be better, no?

@Ben:
I like your post, it didn't take sides or judge anyone else, just provided information and suggestions. Thank you for that. :)

@Zyt3x:
Nobody likes a troll, eh? :p But a ban… tis a bit harsh don't ya think?

Really wtf is? The conversation was handled fine? Are you guys really this sensitive, do we need to censor ourselves now and act extremely nice to each other to discuss something?

From: Wizzup?
Well, that's a problem with your judgement. I don't really have anything to add aside from what I have already said. If you have a problem with my posts you could (again) create a thread about it, or drop me PM.

Thank you.

From: kingarabian
Just because we are having a huge influx of newcomers from other communities, it does not mean we have to take advantage of them and sell them scripts. We should take the time to give them a chance, to teach them; an opportunity they didn't get in there previous communities. We say Sythe.org to sell scripts because that's what we did in the past and it worked out best. That way SRL won't be involved with Jagex's legal bull shit and it stands by our mission statement:

That's what defers us from the rest. Any newcomer with the right intention to learn and to become a programmer can easily come here and learn. Why? Because we are free, and open-source. We are not contaminated with this business ideology were we try all we can to get that dollar from a user. Introducing script sales here on SRL will not make us "free" anymore and within time people will only script just to make money. Slowly, SRL would self-destruct because our sole motivation would be just for the money.

Who said we will take Tutorial Island out… your point doesn't make sense… I am talking about people who do not want to learn, who tend leech our public scripts…
nothing wrong with that… but if they aren't satisfied with public scripts and if Pay scripts > Public scripts(LITE versions or w/e). Money = the real deal, that meaning Scripters like me and you will try their hardest to achieve the satisfication for customers.

seems like your against it but that is your choice and I respect that fully.
:)

From: P1nky
Who said we will take Tutorial Island out… your point doesn't make sense… I am talking about people who do not want to learn, who tend leech our public scripts…
nothing wrong with that… but if they aren't satisfied with public scripts and if Pay scripts > Public scripts(LITE versions or w/e). Money = the real deal, that meaning Scripters like me and you will try their hardest to achieve the satisfication for customers.

seems like your against it but that is your choice and I respect that fully.
:)

I didn't say anything about Tutorial Island. My point is: Pay scripts will soon become the sole reason newcomers will come here. Not for learning purposes. This defies our mission and vision here at SRL. This would stop us from standing out and being different from other cheating communities. Yes money is the real deal, if you want money then go ahead make a bad ass script and sell it @ Sythe. People WILL buy. But of course you love SRL and you don't want to go to Sythe! So? Use that bad ass script to make you GP on Runescape and in turn sell that GP here! :)

From: Wanted
Really wtf is? The conversation was handled fine? Are you guys really this sensitive, do we need to censor ourselves now and act extremely nice to each other to discuss something?

IceFire you've been here for a while here man, you understand where Flight is going with this…you know that we here enjoy a flame-free environment. If you want to get into a flame-war then:

1. Allow me to re-introduce you to www.moparisthebest.com and invite Wizzup there.
2. Make a thread in the BBQ pit.
3. Pm Wizzup or whomever you are irritated with.

From: kingarabian
I didn't say anything about Tutorial Island. My point is: Pay scripts will soon become the sole reason newcomers will come here. Not for learning purposes. This defies our mission and vision here at SRL. This would stop us from standing out and being different from other cheating communities. Yes money is the real deal, if you want money then go ahead make a bad ass script and sell it @ Sythe. People WILL buy. But of course you love SRL and you don't want to go to Sythe! So? Use that bad ass script to make you GP on Runescape and in turn sell that GP here! :)



IceFire you've been here for a while here man, you understand where Flight is going with this…you know that we here enjoy a flame-free environment. If you want to get into a flame-war then:

1. Allow me to re-introduce you to www.moparisthebest.com and invite Wizzup there.
2. Make a thread in the BBQ pit.
3. Pm Wizzup or whomever you are irritated with.

King, dont defend yourself, you're not at fault. Explaining yourself is just a waste of breathe.

Can we get a flippin' poll, this thread has gone on too long with too much bullshit.

This thread is getting out of hand…

I've closed this, it is being discussed in higher boards. We will definitely be taking all of this into consideration.

Please bare with us as we move through this hectic time. :)