SRL Archive - Discussions & Debates

That is, why do we bother with colour scripting? Keep in mind that this entire argument pertains only to Runescape.

This is something that's been bugging me for a long long time and I'd just like to open a discussion about it. Everyone knows that SRL originated as a colour bot, but has since graduated to Reflection, essentially leaving colour in the dust (you can argue against that all you want, but you know I'm right).

I've been following the behaviour of SRL closely for a while and it's obvious that Reflection is favoured. I have to say, I can't blame you guys, it's easier to script, 99% of the time works better than color, it can do much much more, how could you not like it better? One might argue, "but what if the hooks go outdated?" Awesome, Pyroryan has created an updater that automatically updates hooks within a couple hours (at most), and unless Jagex decides to change the game engine again, Reflection scripts will never become outdated (I'm talking about constant values such as item IDs and tiles).

The fact is, there's little to no one left who have the slightest interest in colour scripting anymore, and with Reflection 2.2 becoming independent from SRL, I'm willing to bet every penny I have that new users won't even know what colour scripting is.

Of the few scripts we have, how many are colour? MSI is, and I have to say, maintaining the colour aspect of it is a major pain in the ass, especially when no one is interested in it (no offense to anyone intended). And don't even get me started about the affects graphics updates has on colour botting. Yeah, I'm tired of it, I lost interest in scripting for RS ages ago. So why do I keep doing it? Because I love this community, and would hate to see it's origins die.

But then I got to thinking, if the origins die, it's only to make way for the future. The future has endless possibilities, and I would hate to force something on people whom are clearly not interested (again, no offense intended), which now that I think about it, I have probably been doing with regards to MSI and trying to get people to contribute.

But back to the topic, why bother with colour scripting? NCDS and I lack time (and I lack interest) to keep MSI running the way it needs to be run, SRL5 development has been stagnated for a while (and I don't see it picking up any time soon), there are maybe two or three colour scripts that still work, SRL and Reflection will be completely separate soon, and the community lacks interest.

I'd hate to see the colour side of SRL archived, but at this rate, it seems inevitable.

Discuss. :)

pretty much agree with all of that

I can't argue with being too busy to do things, and reflection seems a lot more "promising" than it used to be

Cohen: great minds think alike ;)
YoHoJo: I was also thinking
YoHoJo: it's annoying people argue
YoHoJo: It's a fucking fact
YoHoJo: Refelction is easier and better
YoHoJo: YES color CAN be 'JUST AS GOOD AND FAST'
YoHoJo: but it's a fucking waste of time when we have ref
Cohen: I know
Cohen: Plus with the RS graphics always upgrading, it's even harder
YoHoJo: yea ther's no point
Cohen: It's a huge fucking pain in the ass, just to make something not work as well as reflection
YoHoJo: yeah color scripting is (and has been) oudated
YoHoJo: It's 'fun' and you learn coding better but like wtf man we are botting here
YoHoJo: agreeing with pretty mcuh every line of this
Cohen: :)
YoHoJo: I never jump into the 'debatey' threads but I might in this one
YoHoJo: But like hey
YoHoJo: 'whats stopping you?' if you want all ref, then do it make all your scripts ref, make msi ref
YoHoJo: and those who still wana do color can do color
YoHoJo: all options are still out there for everyone, and you're right most scripts are ref already
YoHoJo: are you like saying we should make SRL al ref pretty much?
YoHoJo: And not have them as 2 includes

Agree with all but like what's stopping us?
Keep srl going as color, keep ref up to date too. People can pick and choose what they want. I guess making SRL all ref and no more color would be something to do but I don't see that happening. I agree with everything the thread said, but nothing needs to change for that stuff to happen just make MSI all ref, make all your scripts with ref, and those who want to still script color can do that too.

From: YoHoJo
Agree with all but like what's stopping us?
Keep srl going as color, keep ref up to date too. People can pick and choose what they want. I guess making SRL all ref and no more color would be something to do but I don't see that happening. I agree with everything the thread said, but nothing needs to change for that stuff to happen just make MSI all ref, make all your scripts with ref, and those who want to still script color can do that too.

That's the thing, there's no one left to maintain the color side of SRL. NCDS and I are technically the only active SRL Developers (Nava2 a little bit) and it's hard to be motivated to do something that probably won't be used.

Yeah when it comes to Runescape it's hard to beat Reflection. So maybe to be more specific, this argument is limited to Runescape scripts.

We have the exact same tools, as other Javabots, at our fingertips, but our advantage is an extremely intelligent development team.

From: Flight
Yeah when it comes to Runescape it's hard to beat Reflection. So maybe to be more specific, this argument is limited to Runescape scripts.

Ah yes good point. I'll add that to the first post.

I agree with you Coh3n. Like myself I'm tired of scripting.. And if I wan't to create something, I will do it with Ref. Because it's easier / faster and so on.

But really there is nothing we can do. Most people (like me) are busy, or no interest keeping everything up (by everything I mean scripts and so on).

~Home

What? Ref2.2 will have no SRL support?

Lol, finally :p Took a while

Because it's fun. I do plan on scripting again and for now I don't feel it'll be anything reflection. What I was going to suggest is to make a ``Colour'' and ``Reflection'' *backend* for SRL. Similar to how Reflection has been making stuff like r_Gametab() really.

A for lack of activity, I've said I plan to return to the include development seat and I still plan on doing so. I don't have a problem with Reflection, but programming-wise it's not much a challenge. If you want this to be a programming community it makes perfect sense to keep colour intact.

To be honest I've not really lost my interesting in scripting, I've just lost my interest in Runescape a long time ago. I don't pk, and I don't want to manually any more. My lack of activity when it comes to the include is really just time though. And Simba, and SRL Stats, and University, etc. Very soon I'll be done with my university releasing my of the biggest time burden. I have other plans after that but I'm sure I'll be making some more free time. We all grow up and the challenge is to find a fitting positing for yourself as you grow rather than leave.

Yes, reflection is far better than color when talking about botting on runescape. Simply put reflection is to color, as botting is to playing manually. No one can deny it. This is the reason the other java bots(they utilize a lot more reflection than we do) have flourished. Also i think its time we move onto some other game to bot on since runescape is all about money these days.

You learn more when making a color script.

From: bevardis
You learn more when making a color script.

I think that depends on what you're learning.

Tbh this is why I became a reflection dev years ago ;D I do like how color is more of a challenge and I like to use color scripts as a yes/no factor for SRL membership, but its a waste of time to script in all color. That being said, I personally always use color as a failsafe or double check in my scripts (sometimes the engine is faster than you can see it on the screen ;P). I vote we make all color functions C_ and removed R_ from reflection ;D

And no, Reflection 2.2 will be fully compatible and usable with SRL, but it will be independent, so SRL doesn't HAVE to be used. I like to keep things light in 2.2. Don't worry there :)

I understand how you feel Coh3n when idiots like this are everywhere.

It's true that color scripts are a lot harder to write than reflection, I have been writing an all color script lately and getting the walking system to work in an effective manner is a bitch. But I'm continuing the development because I want to experience the type of cheating that made SRL famous years ago, with all of the challenges that come with it. I just don't feel good when I use reflection anymore.

I also believe reflection is best for runescape to. Like with many things, there is always something new and better to replace the older way of doing something. If it's more reliable then I say its best to use it. Saying that though dtms and colour are very helpful for fail-safes like Drakan pointed out. I like the sound of reflection not needing srl but yet sitting alongside it.

New people join every so often that will still be interested and will use srl, so it shouldn't be gotten rid of. I personally am more into just scripting for rs in reflection tho.

Good thread :)

Like Wizzup and Echo_ stated, scripting for color is more challenging. I have been working on a color script, and it is nice when things don't simply work (Like Reflection, (for the most part)) and you actually have to rework what you've written. It is much more rewarding than writing a reflection script, and yes, slower and frustrating.

It's kinda weird too because I can only assume people come here expecting color scripting. I doubt people come here because they heard we have a great reflection library (which we do), but you could go to any of these cheating sites and find java based cheating systems.

From: Wizzup?
Because it's fun. I do plan on scripting again and for now I don't feel it'll be anything reflection. What I was going to suggest is to make a ``Colour'' and ``Reflection'' *backend* for SRL. Similar to how Reflection has been making stuff like r_Gametab() really.

A for lack of activity, I've said I plan to return to the include development seat and I still plan on doing so. I don't have a problem with Reflection, but programming-wise it's not much a challenge. If you want this to be a programming community it makes perfect sense to keep colour intact.

To be honest I've not really lost my interesting in scripting, I've just lost my interest in Runescape a long time ago. I don't pk, and I don't want to manually any more. My lack of activity when it comes to the include is really just time though. And Simba, and SRL Stats, and University, etc. Very soon I'll be done with my university releasing my of the biggest time burden. I have other plans after that but I'm sure I'll be making some more free time. We all grow up and the challenge is to find a fitting positing for yourself as you grow rather than leave.

I'm not necessarily talking about you or I or any of the older members because there are those few that enjoy colour scripting for the challenge. You can't deny that colour is slowly being forgotten, especially since development of SRL4 and 5 has basically been stopped for months. Yeah, I'm sure some people still find it fun, and that's great, but 90% of current scripters and 99% of future ones use and will use Reflection.

From: bevardis
You learn more when making a color script.

I think so too.

From: Echo_
I understand how you feel Coh3n when idiots like this are everywhere.

That kid is just a moron. I don't know what else to say.

From: Echo_

It's true that color scripts are a lot harder to write than reflection, I have been writing an all color script lately and getting the walking system to work in an effective manner is a bitch. But I'm continuing the development because I want to experience the type of cheating that made SRL famous years ago, with all of the challenges that come with it. I just don't feel good when I use reflection anymore.

That's great, but sadly, you one of only a few who feel that way. :)

From: Drakan

And no, Reflection 2.2 will be fully compatible and usable with SRL, but it will be independent, so SRL doesn't HAVE to be used. I like to keep things light in 2.2. Don't worry there :)

That's what I meant: that it could be run without SRL if the scripter chose.

This is actually a very interesting question. I have not been here in over two years, I just got bored with RS and was never good enough at scripting to be a member so I stopped coming to these forums about the same time I got bored with RS. I did learn a decent amount about scripting back then but any of the scripts I did for myself were about 40% my own work and 60% cannibalized from other peoples scripts, so I never posted them.

I've been thinking about starting again though and with checking things out it looks like Reflection has taken over which shocked me as Reflection was frowned on the last time I was here. I was wondering a few things though.

It was said that the graphics updates are killing the color part of scripting. It used to be that Reflection was down more than SRL because of updates. Do the hooks change less than color now or is it that Reflection is just updated quicker?

Looking at the script section I have access to though it looks like almost everything is Reflection now. Thinking back I learned more from working scripts than I did from tutorials so anyone new that comes here I would guess just goes straight to Reflection. I would hate to see SRL die though.

From: Coh3n
I'm not necessarily talking about you or I or any of the older members because there are those few that enjoy colour scripting for the challenge.

Um, obviously reflection is more efficient at a lot of things and I think there are a few things color just can't do. I'm pretty sure anyone scripting in color at this point is doing it for the fun/challenge, which is pretty understandable imo, especially because a lot of people here aren't interested in runescape anymore, so their goal isn't simply to automate tasks for a game they like.

From: kissdemon
This is actually a very interesting question. I have not been here in over two years, I just got bored with RS and was never good enough at scripting to be a member so I stopped coming to these forums about the same time I got bored with RS. I did learn a decent amount about scripting back then but any of the scripts I did for myself were about 40% my own work and 60% cannibalized from other peoples scripts, so I never posted them.

I've been thinking about starting again though and with checking things out it looks like Reflection has taken over which shocked me as Reflection was frowned on the last time I was here. I was wondering a few things though.

It was said that the graphics updates are killing the color part of scripting. It used to be that Reflection was down more than SRL because of updates. Do the hooks change less than color now or is it that Reflection is just updated quicker?

Looking at the script section I have access to though it looks like almost everything is Reflection now. Thinking back I learned more from working scripts than I did from tutorials so anyone new that comes here I would guess just goes straight to Reflection. I would hate to see SRL die though.

SRL won't die, the community will always be here. To answer the hooks question, yes, hooks are updated within an hour or so, and depending on the RS update, it can take weeks (depending on scripter's time) to update colour scripts.

From: Ogre
Um, obviously reflection is more efficient at a lot of things and I think there are a few things color just can't do. I'm pretty sure anyone scripting in color at this point is doing it for the fun/challenge, which is pretty understandable imo, especially because a lot of people here aren't interested in runescape anymore, so their goal isn't simply to automate tasks for a game they like.

Exactly. ;)

They are different tools. Use the one that works best for the task. For example, OCR should be used for NPC chatting.

I don't know if you could call me a "Old School" member, but I have for a long time supported reflection beyond color.

When KYAB wasn't accepted here I wrote for it and used it. And then when I heard smart could support it I thought "Finally, Reflection will be accepted". And to my surprise, it was never really accepted because it was "too easy", which confused me about as much as people who wont use email and will only do snail mail.

IMO KYAB failed because SRL was at a very active time where Java was not used by many, and botting was done by less people… however there were many color scripters at that time. I personally use reflection because I can't be bothered to try to reproduce errors caused by color object finding, along with being lazy.

From: Drakan
Reflection 2.2 will be fully compatible and usable with SRL, but it will be independent, so SRL doesn't HAVE to be used.

Nice :D

From: Coh3n
SRL won't die, the community will always be here. To answer the hooks question, yes, hooks are updated within an hour or so, and depending on the RS update, it can take weeks (depending on scripter's time) to update colour scripts.

Exactly. ;)

Color just as well wont die, and it would be foolish for us to let it die. Infact color will always be available to use for scripting even though it's not really being developed. No matter what Jagex updates in Rs you will always be able to use color in some way, because color basically reads the colors on the screen/interface/minimap/chat etc etc… and acts accordingly.

You cannot say the same for Java/reflection… Sure reflection right now is pretty much flawless and the most easiest and most efficient way to make a script. BUT if Jagex were to update something in there game engine or implement something to stop us from obtaining hooks or do something to stop us from getting hold of the client then, that's pretty much the nail in the coffin for reflection.

Color can be just as efficient as reflection; even though you may have to do so much extra coding (which is a damn good thing you lazy people lol). We could develop some easy to use/efficient procedures/functions for color right just as well, no? Honestly If I wanted to be a super leet programmer I would learn how to code with color 1st.

But its pretty stupid right now to say color is better than reflection for making Runescape scripts. Reflection is superior over color in every category. It's already been proven that you can make crazy ass scripts with Java/reflection(iDungeon). But how reliable is it? What if I wake up tomorrow and find that Reflection is no longer usable? Then what?

The point is clear: Color even though it's harder to use and implement, will always be available. Reflection despite it being super awesome/efficient and easy to use, can be unreliable and if Jagex updates something big then its pretty much dead. I don't know about you people but I still feel that Jagex will do a major update along with a mass ban ;). Yall remember when Jagex tried to take us out when they made colors ingame change over a period of time to throw off scripts? Well we got it around it!

So that's what makes SRL unique and beautiful. We have a failsafe for everything.

Oh and you know those leachers at Rsbot and Rsbuddy? Well they will come back right here.

From: kingarabian

The point is clear: Color even though it's harder to use and implement, will always be available. Reflection despite it being super awesome/efficient and easy to use, can be unreliable and if Jagex updates something big then its pretty much dead. I don't know about you people but I still feel that Jagex will do a major update along with a mass ban ;). Yall remember when Jagex tried to take us out when they made colors ingame change over a period of time to throw off scripts? Well we got it around it!

Love this statement. :) Nicely said.

always keep ideas flowing and if old ideas, advance on them.


Even though it is old and dusty, still doesnt mean it cant be dusted off, thought upon, and changed into a brand new idea+new creation. :)

Edit: also keep all options open because you never know :P

I use color all the time when I need a small/ easy script. Once you have one object finder, you can adapt it to what ever you could possibly need it for, and to be honest, I think it's much easier to gather colors than tiles + id's. Then obviously there are times(like MTA) when reflection is just required, but I would like to use color when ever i can :p

Just as a comparison, When AR thrived and then got nerfed by the Jagsters, it was quite the hit to the cheating community. Thankfully Kait was awesome and loved his people, but if he wouldn't have cared, RS cheating would've been quite different. It would be naive of us to assume Reflection will always be a viable botting method. It would be even more naive to not use this time to thrive with reflection, though. ;)

Also, "because color basically reads the colors on the screen/interface/minimap/chat etc etc…" tell me your secrets, wizard. (lol srsly, that made me "LOL" irl, lol. :p lol)

From: i luffs yeww
Just as a comparison, When AR thrived and then got nerfed by the Jagsters, it was quite the hit to the cheating community. Thankfully Kait was awesome and loved his people, but if he wouldn't have cared, RS cheating would've been quite different. It would be naive of us to assume Reflection will always be a viable botting method. It would be even more naive to not use this time to thrive with reflection, though. ;)

Also, "because color basically reads the colors on the screen/interface/minimap/chat etc etc…" tell me your secrets, wizard. (lol srsly, that made me "LOL" irl, lol. :p lol)

ians a blue duck. CSS.

I have seen you :P sorry for offtopicness.

anyways, always advance whats there,keep it simple as possible, and listen to music after brainstorming :P *also get a drink too* :P

From: kingarabian
Reflection despite it being super awesome/efficient and easy to use, can be unreliable and if Jagex updates something big then its pretty much dead. I don't know about you people but I still feel that Jagex will do a major update along with a mass ban ;).

I've been anticipating this for a while now. But I lean more to the idea of this not happening because of how much it would hurt business for them. I think if anything close to this was to be done, they'd take out (regular) pking, trade limits, things like that, then atleast 70% of the bots would thus become useless.

From: pyroryan

They are different tools. Use the one that works best for the task. For example, OCR should be used for NPC chatting.

Definitely agree with this. I've made a handful of my own reflection functions with the only difference being SRL's OCR.

From: kingarabian
Color just as well wont die, and it would be foolish for us to let it die. Infact color will always be available to use for scripting even though it's not really being developed. No matter what Jagex updates in Rs you will always be able to use color in some way, because color basically reads the colors on the screen/interface/minimap/chat etc etc… and acts accordingly.

You cannot say the same for Java/reflection… Sure reflection right now is pretty much flawless and the most easiest and most efficient way to make a script. BUT if Jagex were to update something in there game engine or implement something to stop us from obtaining hooks or do something to stop us from getting hold of the client then, that's pretty much the nail in the coffin for reflection.

Color can be just as efficient as reflection; even though you may have to do so much extra coding (which is a damn good thing you lazy people lol). We could develop some easy to use/efficient procedures/functions for color right just as well, no? Honestly If I wanted to be a super leet programmer I would learn how to code with color 1st.

But its pretty stupid right now to say color is better than reflection for making Runescape scripts. Reflection is superior over color in every category. It's already been proven that you can make crazy ass scripts with Java/reflection(iDungeon). But how reliable is it? What if I wake up tomorrow and find that Reflection is no longer usable? Then what?

The point is clear: Color even though it's harder to use and implement, will always be available. Reflection despite it being super awesome/efficient and easy to use, can be unreliable and if Jagex updates something big then its pretty much dead. I don't know about you people but I still feel that Jagex will do a major update along with a mass ban ;). Yall remember when Jagex tried to take us out when they made colors ingame change over a period of time to throw off scripts? Well we got it around it!

So that's what makes SRL unique and beautiful. We have a failsafe for everything.

Oh and you know those leachers at Rsbot and Rsbuddy? Well they will come back right here.

I think you need to understand how it all works before saying jagex can just stop letting us "obtain hooks". Obviously if it was possible to stop they would do it, but it just isn't. There is always a way to reverse engineer. It's code. They can change the game engine and break all the hooks, and it might temporarily stop reflection (for a week or 2), but same thing can go with color. Just as they made the color changing and it stopped us for a bit, we got around it and moved on. Who's to say they wouldn't do that for color? My point is, they can't just make it so we can't "obtain hooks". Its a native java thing to be able to run through the bytecode of compiled java classes and search for patterns and read fields.

From: Coh3n
I'm not necessarily talking about you or I or any of the older members because there are those few that enjoy colour scripting for the challenge. You can't deny that colour is slowly being forgotten, especially since development of SRL4 and 5 has basically been stopped for months. Yeah, I'm sure some people still find it fun, and that's great, but 90% of current scripters and 99% of future ones use and will use Reflection.

Just to expand on this a bit; ever since I became a developer (and even before) I've been pushing people to help get involved with solving randoms. Not even to test or code for them necessarily (though that would be nice), but simply lend an account or at the very least a debug log for a random. I've got maybe one or two the whole time. (Ever since after Squancy loaned me all those accounts)


@The whole "why do we bother" thing: I will probably always use color object finding. I absolutely love working with arrays and searching algorithms and honestly, just having fun with my code.

I often times use reflection for walking when I'm just throwing something together quick to be used for a short period of time, but other wise I'd still use color.

As you previously stated, there are (unfortunately) only a few of us that feel that way. I don't ever think we should stop support of a color version of SRL though. Color is far to great of a learning tool to ever be discarded by an intelligent programming community.

I would also like to bring up one point. WT_Fawki stated in our 'mission statement' that our goal is to be the few that blend in among the legit RS. With all this talk about 'flourishing' in the RS cheating scene I doubt that would be so true any more. I personally like the fact that when I run a script, I can watch and see everyone else that's botting because they all run the same paths etc. then I'm off on my own doing my own thing. I don't want SRL to become like RSBuddy or RSBot or any other java bot. Sure I would love to see more activity, but we have to keep pushing onward with color as well, it keeps us who we are, honestly.

My opinion, sorry for bouncing around in that.

(On a side note: I do plan to pick up SRL development a bit more now that the big MSI update is out of the way, plus my hours are finally going down. :p )

@NCDS: I definitely agree with you on the mission statement and I _never_ want that to go away. I still find pride in SRL scripts being the ones that do stand out differently from other bots, and I believe that is all up to the scripter. It's not color or reflection that makes it, its the scripter and communities. If things are over abused, or theres not enough randomness and effort put into a script, then it happens.

From: NCDS

WT_Fawki stated in our 'mission statement' that our goal is to be the few that blend in among the legit RS. With all this talk about 'flourishing' in the RS cheating scene I doubt that would be so true any more.

If I may comment on this, I believe the factor of blending in with legit players has nothing to do with Color/Reflection, but rather it's determined on the scripter's style and use of what's available. The same procedures we have for anti-bans and human characteristics that we have in the SRL include can, without a doubt, be applied to Reflection.

We can keep keep our infamous tradition of reflecting human characteristics in our scripts no matter how we do it, as that shouldn't be limited to Color only.

Edit:
Ah hell, ya beat me to it, Drakan. :p

From: Flight
Edit:
Ah hell, ya beat me to it, Drakan. :p

Buahaha >=)

From: Drakan
@NCDS: I definitely agree with you on the mission statement and I _never_ want that to go away. I still find pride in SRL scripts being the ones that do stand out differently from other bots, and I believe that is all up to the scripter. It's not color or reflection that makes it, its the scripter and communities. If things are over abused, or theres not enough randomness and effort put into a script, then it happens.

From: Flight
If I may comment on this, I believe the factor of blending in with legit players has nothing to do with Color/Reflection, but rather it's determined on the scripter's style and use of what's available. The same procedures we have for anti-bans and human characteristics that we have in the SRL include can, without a doubt, be applied to Reflection.

We can keep keep our infamous tradition of reflecting human characteristics in our scripts no matter how we do it, as that shouldn't be limited to Color only.

I was more so talking about the abuse of the scripts here. Although, I do find that Reflection often times does things even better than a human would.

From: NCDS
I was more so talking about the abuse of the scripts here. Although, I do find that Reflection often times does things even better than a human would.

I'm guessing that's more on the scripter's side. I don't know much about the Reflection include, but I imagine each method does what it's supposed to, and it's up the the scripter to add randomness.

Someone doesn't remember their history.

In defense of color scripting I'll outline why we bother.

At SRL's peak, roughly 6 months before KYAB, color based scripting was unmatched. There were working anti-randoms, a solid include base, reliable scripts, and most importantly: RS GP was priced at $5 USD/ 1000k gp minimum, private and trust-able sources sold for as much as 10usd/gp.

SRL was so successful during this time that it incurred interest from people of other big communities of the day, namely: iBot/Nexus …namely solarwind, sengo, ruler, Genodemon etc. in fact solar brought back an idea of Ruler and Geno's (which was to use SCAR's interface to interact with Nexus) in order to draw more interest from the large SRL user base into java related botting. The general consensus at the time was JAVA = BAD.

Obviously, such as a task was challenging so solarwind essentially asked for the help of BenLand100 and they were able to come out with the end product KYAB (Kick Your Ass Bot) to give SCAR users the ability to use compass independent/dependent walking, NPC and type UIDS, and other minor things like compass angle. There was about a half dozen to dozen useful resources like those but only a small fraction of what there is in current reflection. KYAB was a fantastic solution to my RCrB (multi-runecrafter) at the time I was able to use types and uids to do all the banking and altar finding and the compass independent walking to make it everywhere I needed to go. Needless to say I finished months of work in less than a week.

2 weeks after KYAB was dropped by BenLand100 for its large rejection by mainstream SRL solar had formed his own community (lol? forums anyways) that handled everything KYAB and the KYAB section was removed from SRL completely. At about the same time all of KYAB except for compass dependent (means you have to face north, and it's not that accurate) walking was available. In blatant terms, KYAB went from being awesome to useless, but despite this the community held on for quite some time in hopes of 'progress' which never truly came.

Somewhere around the same time Jagex came out with a big fat 'fuck you' and decided to remove all unbalanced trade and eliminate any other means of making off with money involving staking limits, remove wilderness, Grand exchange. This significantly and quickly killed off user bases in every community. SRL took quite the hit. Many left, others stayed but lost interest. Needless to say, SRL was never the same.

It must of been over a year after KYAB that BenLand100 came back and used his SMART client with integrated reflection. This is what I call reflection 2. It lasted for a good 6-12 months… hard to remember.

This is about the time Runetek(5?) I think it was 5… came out and completely screwed reflection. I mean it was almost an entire year or was it more? before 1) the hooks were working and 2) the SCAR side code that took the hooks and made it into useful data. This is what I call reflection 3.

Runetek 5 made SRL4 include take quite the hit. Many of the things that SRL designed with originally were now impractical and the structure didn't make much sense with the new runescape, but things were patched and continued to on. This was largely the first big acceleration of the downfall of the SRL include. Only a few devs picked it back up to keep it alive… I remember how much work Zeph did just to keep it going. Times were tough though… the lack of interest was a big factor.

What really did in SRL4 was the introduction of simba. Not only was the include deteriorated from runetek5 and the lack of interest and activity, now you have an include that was originally designed for runetek4 and SCAR to run with runetek5 and simba/SCAR compatible, and on top of the lack of interest. Many of the people who do not actually work on the include themselves anymore still want to give input on how things are done in the include when they don't realize how messed up things really are. This is where you get the current horrible state the SRL color include is in.

Timer decided to write his own reflection include, RRL, because reflection"3" was becoming chaotic. RRL never went anywhere just yet because there's no practical use for it. However, this did give people a reason to focus on refleciton and make it into the nice reflection"2" (really 4th) that you see now.

You all know that I'm writing my own color include now over at scar-div (info in sig, not going to reexplain here) this is so that there is a new include that is not influenced by inactive people who want their say and a fresh start to something that will be designed for SCAR/runetek5 so that it will actually be solid.

For all you people who think reflection is all the awesome and color is something is not worth bothering, sorry you're all not thinking logically.

Go actually learn Java the native language of runescape and use REAL reflection with a java bot and quit wasting your time with some weird pascalscript related BS.

Color is here for the challenge and fun that reminds us old timers of the glory days.

It's like having the first muscle cars that came out in the 60s.

Reliable and awesome in other ways.

@Wanted: 98% of that entire post had absolutely nothing to do with OP. That being said, yes reflection is for challenge and fun, we've stated that. No one asked for a history lesson and I don't see where it applied at all in the conversation.

From: Wanted

For all you people who think reflection is all the awesome and color is something is not worth bothering, sorry you're all not thinking logically.

I'd kinda like a little more explanation on this, as I don't really understand why you'd say that. The purpose of this particular thread is discussing the purpose of using Color for Runescape scripts while we already have Reflection available. It's in every way 'logical' to use our best methods that we have available. But this doesn't mean color is "not worth bothering", when did anybody, at any point, make that statement?

From: Wanted

Go actually learn Java the native language of runescape and use REAL reflection with a java bot and quit wasting your time with some weird pascalscript related BS.

It obviously works just fine… Here the SRL and Reflection includes can coexist just fine together, we can use them both at any time. Do you get that with other java bots? Why does our Reflection make you so upset? :confused:

From: Wanted

Color is here for the challenge and fun that reminds us old timers of the glory days.

This response is actually related to the thread, so that's good.

From: Drakan

@Wanted: 98% of that entire post had absolutely nothing to do with OP. That being said, yes reflection is for challenge and fun, we've stated that. No one asked for a history lesson and I don't see where it applied at all in the conversation.

^ Very much agreed…

Very nice IceFire, and nicely put.

From: Drakan
@Wanted: 98% of that entire post had absolutely nothing to do with OP. That being said, yes reflection is for challenge and fun, we've stated that. No one asked for a history lesson and I don't see where it applied at all in the conversation.

You're not seeing the bigger picture.

The history lesson/98% or whatever is made to illustrate a different point.

If someone wants the greatest there is is they would be inclined enough to use the native language of runescape from the start via a real Javabot like powerbot/rsbot.

Obviously people stick around because there's more to it than that.

Color scripting is the purest form of the other side of that.

If it were easy to explain, then this thread wouldn't exist.. would it?

From: Wanted
If someone wants the greatest there is is they would be inclined enough to use the native language of runescape from the start via a real Javabot like powerbot/rsbot.

The fact that you mention powerbot in the same sentence as "the greatest there is" clearly shows your ignorance towards rs client hacking. If I wanted to use an already created bot that is completely bloated with crap then I could go there and waste my time, but I'd rather be here, where I don't get flamed for posting anything intelligent(that is basically the reaction you get from most javabot forums). Nothing is wrong with our implementation of reflection, it is not pascalscript based(as was proved with Kronos). It's using the flexible cross-language tool - JNI(specifically created for using java functions with a different language).

That being said, I like color and reflection equally….but I currently use reflection because its the only sensible thing to use to compete with massive botting.

I never understood the purpose of scripting in colour to give myself as a challenge, for me it has always been about the end result; getting lots of dosh or experience.

Personally I don't look to colour scripting for a challenge because there are lots of other things that interest me much, much more. And I think, a lot more rewarding too (in the material sense). Colour scripting is just too bland for me.

To each their own though, I suppose.

What we really need is more (new) people that is actually interested in Runescape and want to learn scripting imo.

From: SubiN
What we really need is more (new) people that is actually interested in Runescape and want to learn scripting imo.

Yes.

This same topic has been brought up in the past. I personally thought when SCAR was at its worst stage would of been a great time to really re-work the SRL/Reflection includes instead of working on Simba.

Coh3n, I'm wondering, is this thread leaning more twords MSI running in color and not Reflection, or development in all scripts?

It just seems like me MSI is the heart of Color scripting here at SRL, so if this topic were to target anything in general, it would be MSI.

From: Flight
I'd kinda like a little more explanation on this, as I don't really understand why you'd say that. The purpose of this particular thread is discussing the purpose of using Color for Runescape scripts while we already have Reflection available. It's in every way 'logical' to use our best methods that we have available. But this doesn't mean color is "not worth bothering", when did anybody, at any point, make that statement?

That was the clear insinuation of the thread title.

From: Coh3n
That is, why do we bother with colour scripting?

From: Flight
It obviously works just fine… Here the SRL and Reflection includes can coexist just fine together, we can use them both at any time. Do you get that with other java bots? Why does our Reflection make you so upset? :confused:

Read between the lines my friend. Do you honestly think Reflection makes me upset? I agree its a useful tool and have used it in many of my scripts since it was introduced 4 years ago.

The real point of me saying that was to prove my real point that involved understanding the context and purpose of saying that.

From: Flight
^ Very much agreed…

Really? It's not related to the thread?

Do you know how many times I've heard "Reflection won't break again." etc. It's been about 4 times now where reflection has undergone mass extinction and rebirth under SRL implantation.

"It won't happen again" is a pretty funny opinion when you look at the actual history of it and not what someone merely thinks out of theory.. "things have changed" yea that was the story the last half a dozen times.

From: mormonman
The fact that you mention powerbot in the same sentence as "the greatest there is" clearly shows your ignorance towards rs client hacking. If I wanted to use an already created bot that is completely bloated with crap then I could go there and waste my time, but I'd rather be here, where I don't get flamed for posting anything intelligent(that is basically the reaction you get from most javabot forums). Nothing is wrong with our implementation of reflection, it is not pascalscript based(as was proved with Kronos). It's using the flexible cross-language tool - JNI(specifically created for using java functions with a different language).

Ok do you think that I am saying "Powerbot is the greatest there is"? Obviously if you take into account the context I am trying to convey the concept that using SMART integrated reflection is like getting a tease of what that related technology is truly capable of… WHICH relates to this thread because if you are in fact here to use reflection solely because its easier to come out with better results than you are wasting your time when the real results are at some other bot. For the record, you are heavily undermining Powerbot/rsbot but that's a whole 'nother story.

From: mormonman
That being said, I like color and reflection equally….but I currently use reflection because its the only sensible thing to use to compete with massive botting.

This is largely because the true power of color can only be utilized with those who have the skill and experience of practical runescape use. This goes above and beyond coding abilities or computer programming science knowledge. It takes more than good programming skills or related knowledge.

It's a whole 'nother ballpark of technicality and efficient creative imagination which is why true color scripters like myself keep on bothering with it.

The reason reflection died so much in the past was lack of support from the community and lack of client-knowledgeable programmers. Now we have backups for our backups. Pyroryan is one of the best updater-keepers I know, and Timer is always offering help with hooks if pyro is away or unable to do it for some reason. Obviously ryan won't be around forever, but when he leaves, he will give us the tools to keep going and by then mormonman and I will more than likely be able to keep up with it from there. But for now we are more solid than ever.

EDIT: Also forgot to mention Trilez who I'm sure would also be happy to cover.

I never thought I would see the day this would even be considered.

Personally i don't use color unless I absolutely have to. I like the idea of the challenge of color scripting. But the reality is I barely have enough time to come on here and read the forums most days.

If I am going to script I am going to do it using the most efficient tools possible. For me that is Reflection. I keep promising myself I will go back and redo some of my scripts in color, but I know it's never going to happen.

i think everyone is missing the point. If we abandon color, then the brand new introduction page that those people designed will be WRONG! the info will be outdated and lies (because when the page is made into a website, it definitely wont be possible to change it).

Regardless of what happens though, i think it's pretty impressive the number of offshoot things SRL/scar inspired. kyab, SCAR++, Simba, smart, reflection, that other one that that kid did then left, etc.

From: Flight
Coh3n, I'm wondering, is this thread leaning more twords MSI running in color and not Reflection, or development in all scripts?

It just seems like me MSI is the heart of Color scripting here at SRL, so if this topic were to target anything in general, it would be MSI.

^ Yeah. And is it not possible for you to just get rid of all the colour finding, etc. and develop MSI with 90% reflection except for those few necessary functions?

To put it simple, we will/should use what is the most efficient method for any given situation.

From: Sex
To put it simple, we will/should use what is the most efficient method for any given situation.

Not necessarily.. Some people favor durability over efficiency

The point of this thread is not to say we should completely abandon color.

From: Flight
Coh3n, I'm wondering, is this thread leaning more twords MSI running in color and not Reflection, or development in all scripts?

It just seems like me MSI is the heart of Color scripting here at SRL, so if this topic were to target anything in general, it would be MSI.

Well it was MSI that made me think of the topic, yes, and I've thought about converting MSI to reflection many many times. It's not an easy decision. :p

From: Smarter Child
^ Yeah. And is it not possible for you to just get rid of all the colour finding, etc. and develop MSI with 90% reflection except for those few necessary functions?

MSI could be converted quite easily. When I talk about maintaining be a pain in the ass, I'm talking about item and object finding, and those would really only take a few hours to convert. That being said, I don't think MSI will convert. ;)

From: Drakan
The point of this thread is not to say we should completely abandon color.

Thank you! :p I think the original post may have come across wrong to some people. I'm not suggesting to get rid of colour altogether, I just wanted to open a discussion as to why people still do it, when there's clearly an easier and better (in most cases) alternative.

From: Zyt3x
Not necessarily.. Some people favor durability over efficiency

I'd say that I take durability into account when I decide the efficiency of something. If we have a situation where color and Reflection can both solve it equally well, then I'd choose color because it would probably last longer.

Reflection is so time efficient and easy I don't see how I'd ever consider 'durability'. I can whip up a quick reflection script in an hour, can't do that with colour.

I could remake a reflection script multiple times compared to the one time you made a colour script and it's not like reflection even breaks that much. The only time it breaks is when a dev dicks around with the functions, in which case it's fairly trivial to replace the old functions with the new ones.

I'm too retired to care about the topic, but I would like to say congrats to you guys for discussing this much more politely than the linked MITB thread.

From: Boreas
I'm too retired to care about the topic, but I would like to say congrats to you guys for discussing this much more politely than the linked MITB thread.

I'm either too blind or lazy to find what MITB thread you are talking about, what thread was that?

From: Wanted
I'm either too blind or lazy to find what MITB thread you are talking about, what thread was that?

http://www.moparisthebest.com/smf/index.php/topic,499215.0.html

We're referring to the comments from "yo123".

Wow MITB forums have severely deteriorated

From: Wanted
Wow MITB forums have severely deteriorated

You could sure say that again. (Apologies for the far off-topicness)

Funny, more people agree when an administrator says something like that.

I am disappointed.

From: Dervish
Funny, more people agree when an administrator says something like that.

I am disappointed.

Sorry didn't get it :S

What do you mean?

On topic. If MSI would been converted to only ref. What would be the advantages?

~Home

From: Home
Sorry didn't get it :S
What do you mean?

I think he's referring to how when an admin makes this argument, more people agree as opposed to when a regular member makes the same argument.

From: Home

On topic. If MSI would been converted to only ref. What would be the advantages?

Not much of anything from a user's perspective. It would more so just help ease development. (Not saying that it's going to happen, just explaining why it would.)

From: Dervish
Funny, more people agree when an administrator says something like that.

I am disappointed.

Really? I am pretty sure there was support for Color long before Coh3n posted this.

From: Home
On topic. If MSI would been converted to only ref. What would be the advantages?

~Home

Like NCDS said, ease of development. Users probably wouldn't notice a huge difference, if any at all. That being said, I don't really see it happening.

From: Dervish
Funny, more people agree when an administrator says something like that.

I am disappointed.

I was close to not saying anything about this, but I decided I might as well because I'm bored and haven't posted in awhile.

Do you think the ideas and things the President (or Prime Minister or whatever you have in France or wherever you live) says and does are ground-breaking, never-before-thought-of ideas? Of course not. Then why do media and people alike critique what men in power say more than when average folk do?

Someone who everyone knows, someone who has power, someone who speaks to others behind close doors is someone who people envy. I don't care what you may think, people would like to be admins/mods/developers/etc. and be able to have that sense of power, even if it's just in this small community. Envy and jealous spark discussion. And we also think "Hey, maybe if I'm on their side, I'll have a better chance of gaining power!" And there's the nay-sayers who will deny what others say, and blah blah blah.

Point is, be quiet. If this is a topic you care about, why the f**k does it matter if it needs someone else to bring it up to get attention? If you want to save starving children, but nobody cares until someone with power says the same thing, and then starving children get fed and vaccinated and essentials that we take for granted, you should be happy. It shouldn't matter if nobody says "PRAISE DERVISH" if what you wanted to happen happened.

Anyway.

Color will stay, reflection is used a bit more as it's more efficient (hate all you want, it is more efficient most of the time), and ultimately life goes on.

From: espow
• Avoid heat, heat is the vgp-bps9 battery enemy, the temperature in a car can easily rise 50F in a single hour, in some cases reaching 140F.

i thought you were talking about a laptop not a car

nice spam anyway

and to be ontopic

i have thought of making my Vine Vanquisher color only, but i havent really got round to it, plus i dont have members

the hardest part is done, all i need to do is make a location verifying in color and it would take a few line changes

the vine searching is color already

i already have a color nest finding in the script (its just not being used)

everything else would take a couple of line chnged to convert to color

~shut

With color you could make a script that refreshes the page after rs update and keeps botting. (I remember doing this with Harry's fightcaver).

I think it's harder to keep up reflection include than it's to keep up color include but I might be completely wrong. (You don't have to update color multiple times every week).

Reflection is good because it's easier to make complex scripts with it.

Tbqh, I would prefer it if all scripts were fully color and worked perfectly. But even if that happened, it's never gonna be as fast as reflection, considering that reflection can click things that are out of view and pinpoint things.

From: litoris
Tbqh, I would prefer it if all scripts were fully color and worked perfectly. But even if that happened, it's never gonna be as fast as reflection, considering that reflection can click things that are out of view and pinpoint things.

colour will hardly ever be faster than reflection because reflection can grab the position straight from the client whereas colour has to search each pixel on the screen

~shut

Read the whole thread. A lot of valid points have been put forward.
Historically speaking: there are a couple of reasons why we kept to color all these years. All have been mentioned:

1. color doesn't break after each update.
2. color is the only 100% legal option.

Given the above, my own personal reasons for color are:

1. I understand color completely, I dont understand reflection at all.
2. Reflection is cheating-within-cheating, no challenge for me.
3. I rely on no-one else. It is just me and Simba. I like that idea.

But I am realistic enough to see that my "craftsmanship" is slowly dying out. I am probably the only one left scripting 100% in color. And in all of my scripts I had to reinvent the wheel time and again. They all needed little tweaks here and there. There is no big picture with color, there is a big picture with reflection.

As Drakan and others stated: as long as there will be people willing to update the hooks, reflection will keep on working. But for how long? That will entirely depend on the community. If the last RefDev drops, than it is byebye scripting. If you want to go along on this path, than that is the gamble you will need to take.

The only valid argument that stays for me -as I am the owner- is the legality of it all. Are we 100% legal? No, we are not. Not even from the early beginning, we haven't been legal. Despite that, in all these years our community has been tolerated by our beloved company. We are gentlemen, masterthieves, Digital Robin Hoods. We neither deal nor care for money. Thus our community has never been sued, as the accusations will not stand in court. Jackex has other communities to worry about.


tl;dr: Fakwi says: investigate SRL and see if you can get rid of color. My guess is: It will be hard.

From: weequ
With color you could make a script that refreshes the page after rs update and keeps botting. (I remember doing this with Harry's fightcaver).

If SMART didn't throw an error after every RS update, SRL would be able to do this already.

From: Coh3n
If SMART didn't throw an error after every RS update, SRL would be able to do this already.

Well, it certainly didn't throw errors before. I was able to just call SmartSetup() again and it would just work.

Everyone forgets major updates and the months/years of downtime associated with them.

From: WT-Fakawi
Read the whole thread. A lot of valid points have been put forward.
Historically speaking: there are a couple of reasons why we kept to color all these years. All have been mentioned:

1. color doesn't break after each update.
2. color is the only 100% legal option.

Given the above, my own personal reasons for color are:

1. I understand color completely, I dont understand reflection at all.
2. Reflection is cheating-within-cheating, no challenge for me.
3. I rely on no-one else. It is just me and Simba. I like that idea.

But I am realistic enough to see that my "craftsmanship" is slowly dying out. I am probably the only one left scripting 100% in color. And in all of my scripts I had to reinvent the wheel time and again. They all needed little tweaks here and there. There is no big picture with color, there is a big picture with reflection.

As Drakan and others stated: as long as there will be people willing to update the hooks, reflection will keep on working. But for how long? That will entirely depend on the community. If the last RefDev drops, than it is byebye scripting. If you want to go along on this path, than that is the gamble you will need to take.

The only valid argument that stays for me -as I am the owner- is the legality of it all. Are we 100% legal? No, we are not. Not even from the early beginning, we haven't been legal. Despite that, in all these years our community has been tolerated by our beloved company. We are gentlemen, masterthieves, Digital Robin Hoods. We neither deal nor care for money. Thus our community has never been sued, as the accusations will not stand in court. Jackex has other communities to worry about.


tl;dr: Fakwi says: investigate SRL and see if you can get rid of color. My guess is: It will be hard.

Love that post.

From: Wizzup?
Well, it certainly didn't throw errors before. I was able to just call SmartSetup() again and it would just work.

If that's the case, I'm amazed. You are the first person I've come across that doesn't get the "Invalid declaration" or whatever error without first loading RS in their browser after an update.

Coh3n: Mabey Wizzup means that "before" = like a 1 year ago?

And for me at somepoint it didn't give anykind of errors, even RS got an update. But now it does :/

~Home

From: Home
Coh3n: Mabey Wizzup means that "before" = like a 1 year ago?

And for me at somepoint it didn't give anykind of errors, even RS got an update. But now it does :/

~Home

Well I'd like to know what changed. It's the only thing stopping SRL from running straight through updates.

From: Coh3n
Well I'd like to know what changed. It's the only thing stopping SRL from running straight through updates.

I think when safe mode turned into a option verses the default is when it happened

From: MylesMadness
I think when safe mode turned into a option verses the default is when it happened

Oh I see. I've talked to Ben about it and he said it is possible to fix. We just need to find someone with the knowledge to do so.

From: Coh3n
Oh I see. I've talked to Ben about it and he said it is possible to fix. We just need to find someone with the knowledge to do so.

You can say that about *everything* :rolleyes:

From: weequ
With color you could make a script that refreshes the page after rs update and keeps botting. (I remember doing this with Harry's fightcaver).

I think it's harder to keep up reflection include than it's to keep up color include but I might be completely wrong. (You don't have to update color multiple times every week).

Reflection is good because it's easier to make complex scripts with it.

We dont even have to make changes to the include when RS Updates. Pryoryan has an updater than automatically uploads the hook file to the server and scripts are auto-updated at run time. Reflection is easy to keep up with.

EDIT: @IF: Well of course if there's a major update and no one is willing to fix, then yes it will be down for a long time. Pyroryan is already ready for the next runetek engine, and the downtime will be much less. But thats the only time there is a substantial down-time, and that happens every couple of years or more.

From: MylesMadness
I think when safe mode turned into a option verses the default is when it happened

Just wondering.. How do you turn safemode off in SMART?

From: ry0240
Just wondering.. How do you turn safemode off in SMART?

I think smart requires safemode

From: MylesMadness
I think when safe mode turned into a option verses the default is when it happened

Oh ok, I thought you were referring this quote to SMART.

From: ry0240
Just wondering.. How do you turn safemode off in SMART?

You can edit the executing command.

Check out smart.simba and look for SmartSetup. The last parm, 's', is the key it sends when loading, which enables safe mode.

If you turn off safe mode, I am pretty sure nothing will work though in terms of color finding and such.

From: Harry
You can edit the executing command.

Check out smart.simba and look for SmartSetup. The last parm, 's', is the key it sends when loading, which enables safe mode.

If you turn off safe mode, I am pretty sure nothing will work though in terms of color finding and such.

Ahh ok, Would that affect any part of your PSWC? Reflection doesn't need color finding right?

It depends on SRL so no it would not work. Could try and see but you will probably come out disappointed.

@WT-Fakawi:
You made some really good points, I didn't think about those before. What you brought up about us being the least of worries for Jagex will remain true no matter methods we use for building and running scripts.

We've always been, like Wizzup? stated (somewhere, Mopar was it?), more for flying under the radar as opposed to what's popular today; abusing these scripts to get the absolute max return from the time spent running them. I personally think that's because the more bots that are available > the more users are using them > the more they strive to be the 'best', and the closer they get to that goal the further they lose focus on priority #1: blending in.

Leave it to Fakawi to make us all feel shameful for using Reflection. :p Even I'm guilty of pushing my scripts to be as fast as possible.

From: WT-Fakawi

Given the above, my own personal reasons for color are:

1. I understand color completely, I dont understand reflection at all.
2. Reflection is cheating-within-cheating, no challenge for me.
3. I rely on no-one else. It is just me and Simba. I like that idea.

I couldn't agree more.

From: WT-Fakawi

I am probably the only one left scripting 100% in color.

Not the only one. :) (MSI doesn't count as it's not my personal script :p )

From: NCDS
I couldn't agree more.

Not the only one. :) (MSI doesn't count as it's not my personal script :p )

You can count one more. I have only just started scripting, and so have no scripts to show for it, but my first one will be done soon.

From: Harry
It depends on SRL so no it would not work. Could try and see but you will probably come out disappointed.

Is this the write thing to take remove? It's on line 70-73

procedure SendKeys(S: String);
begin
  SmartSendKeys(S);
end;
                          

I think that's right because SRL stats is showing me as not logged in, so far the script is running okay apart from SRL stats.

From: ry0240
Is this the write thing to take remove? It's on line 70-73

procedure SendKeys(S: String);
begin
  SmartSendKeys(S);
end;
                          

I think that's right because SRL stats is showing me as not logged in, so far the script is running okay apart from SRL stats.

SmartSetup('http://'+prefix+'.runescape.com/', 'plugin.js?param=o0,a' + IntToStr((Integer(not(Signed)) + 1) * Integer(not((SuperDetail and Signed)))) + ',m' + IntToStr(Integer(Members)), 765, 503, 's');

Remove that "s".

(Last Param)

From SmartSetupEx;

~Home

From: Harry
It depends on SRL so no it would not work. Could try and see but you will probably come out disappointed.

not completely, i have had one of my reflection scripts running in high detail and off safe mode and it worked perfectly

~shut

I can get smart to go high detail and it works fine. But getting rid of

procedure SendKeys(S: String);
begin
  SmartSendKeys(S);
end;

Don't do anything for me. No matter what, when I click on openGL it stays in safe-mode :( Also making smart be able to use full screen mode would be nice :p

From: Harry
It depends on SRL so no it would not work. Could try and see but you will probably come out disappointed.

I removed safe mode and your script still seems to run fine, I was running two SMARTS at the same time for about ten hours, but it didn't really give any slack on my CPU, I thought taking it out of safe-mode would cause it to put the graphics load on my GPU but I don't think it did, running 3 smarts off safe mode and my CPU is still pretty maxed out..but hey, your script worked.

This is a question going through my mind too. I think the point about reflection is that it makes us able to compete with all the other java bots but it will also make us equal to them. We will have no advantage over them anymore, except that you can make your own scripts and that all our scripts are open source. I'm not sure how we would get users, also commonly refered by you all as 'leechers'. In past few months I heard more and more ideas about improving the flow of leechers to this community, which would make our scripts being more used. The use of reflection as the main library of our script base would please most leechers for sure cause that will increase the script count a lot.

So why I use color? Cause I like the challenge though I'm aware that most srl functions are somewhat outdated and the graphical improvements of the game are following each other at a rapid rate. This makes it frustrating and hard. Color with pascal script lost it's pro of easy to learn difficult to master, it's now difficult to learn, chuck norris to master.

Color lasts long and is efficient. Now, the reason why I dont use color at all, not even IsLoggedIn, although the login character procedure is color, is because color uses more resources in order to keep up with Reflection. I can run about 3 color bots on my computer, but with reflection and a similar script 7-10 bots.

That's my reason for liking reflection more, oh and its easier to code.

From: Yago
Color lasts long and is efficient. Now, the reason why I dont use color at all, not even IsLoggedIn, although the login character procedure is color, is because color uses more resources in order to keep up with Reflection. I can run about 3 color bots on my computer, but with reflection and a similar script 7-10 bots.

That's my reason for liking reflection more, oh and its easier to code.

I'm not sure how much of that is color as opposed to the script itself.

From: Coh3n
I'm not sure how much of that is color as opposed to the script itself.

Its SMART loading that freaking huge RS Screen. With reflection I just slide my fps slider all the way down and use less resources.

From: Yago
Its SMART loading that freaking huge RS Screen. With reflection I just slide my fps slider all the way down and use less resources.

Does that seem to mess up your reflection scripts with walking or make them mess up more often? or it still seems to work fine?

From: ry0240
Does that seem to mess up your reflection scripts with walking or make them mess up more often? or it still seems to work fine?

Works perfect, just wait until the character is logged in because that is color.

From: Yago
Works perfect, just wait until the character is logged in because that is color.

Ok that's great, I didn't know that. Thanks, my CPU is running alot lower than before.

From: ry0240
Does that seem to mess up your reflection scripts with walking or make them mess up more often? or it still seems to work fine?

Yeah, Reflection get's the information from the client so it doesn't rely on what's actually happening on the screen (I guess?) like color does.

Coh3n if you decide to make a separate Reflection-based MSI and need help converting just let me know, that's probably something I can help with. I imagine a project like that would take a couple days atleast.

From: Flight
Coh3n if you decide to make a separate Reflection-based MSI and need help converting just let me know, that's probably something I can help with. I imagine a project like that would take a couple days atleast.

Not really my place here, but I really don't see that happening. :huh: As admin, plus Dev, plus one of the two active MSI dev's, he's generally pretty busy.

Ah yeah… you might be right about that. If the event should arise just know there's people out there willing to lend a hand. ;)

From: Flight
Coh3n if you decide to make a separate Reflection-based MSI and need help converting just let me know, that's probably something I can help with. I imagine a project like that would take a couple days atleast.

It's too bad that's the only way some people are willing to help, especially when a lot of things for MSI are easier to script than Reflection.

I'm actually making a test taker for an automated online testing system my job has using color. :)

Thought I'd post the unique Idea.

~BraK

The only answer that kept going through my head was this,


"We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not only because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too." –
John F. Kennedy, Rice University Speech; Houston, Texas; Sept 12, 1962


That's my outlook on any challenge.

I always lurk all these discussions, and keep hearing these claims that color is even in the same ballpark as reflection.

The facts are that if there were any color scripts made that would even slightly compare to the vast amount of things reflection can do, then I might be surprised.

However, as it is, color is just used to re-make the same F2P mining and fishing scripts that get re-released time and time again. I'd like to see a slayer bot or clue scroll bot written in color, :p.

Color is important in some areas, but that's why even the java bots bundle it into their bots. But a 100% color based script is in all regards, unnecessary, in terms of work needed to make it and its advantages over reflection.

From: smurg
I always lurk all these discussions, and keep hearing these claims that color is even in the same ballpark as reflection.

The facts are that if there were any color scripts made that would even slightly compare to the vast amount of things reflection can do, then I might be surprised.

MSI can run without using Reflection at all. What is Reflection so good at that color can't do?

From: smurg

However, as it is, color is just used to re-make the same F2P mining and fishing scripts that get re-released time and time again. I'd like to see a slayer bot or clue scroll bot written in color, :p.

I can't really think of a bot that's not possible in color, and there have been many great color scripts produced here. Your whole 'jack of all trades' script can be done easily with all color. (Really like the script btw).

Honestly, I'd like to see one of those bots written in Reflection, that would be great.

From: smurg

Color is important in some areas, but that's why even the java bots bundle it into their bots. But a 100% color based script is in all regards, unnecessary, in terms of work needed to make it and its advantages over reflection.

This is a known fact since the beginning. Everyone here is well aware that it is extremely simple to put together a reflection script compared to color. The people left that write scripts in color is clearly for the fun/challenge of it. I only release color code, btu I have a few personal scripts made with reflection just because I wanted to put them together quick.


One thing though; why even bring this argument here? It's been discussed many times before and always results with the same conclusion: we're a programming community before a cheating community. Use what suits you best.

Note: If you reply, please be a little less argumentative on the color vs. reflection aspect. :)

From: NCDS
Honestly, I'd like to see one of those bots written in Reflection, that would be great.

Both clue scrolls and slayer bot have already been made for another reflection bot (Nexus iBot).

Just because no one has done it in colour doesn't mean it isn't possible. And no one has done those scripts here in either colour or reflection so I don't count that as a valid argument.

From the replies I've read in here, I thought this was basically another color vs. reflection rehash :).

And I think new scripters could learn and be challenged just as much in reflection than color. I don't see why color is thought to take more skill. Sure the same script is easier in reflection, but why limit yourself to simple scripts then with reflection? If there's a need of a bigger "challenge" scripting-wise, then there would be plenty of scripts that would be suitable.

Just because something is "possible" doesn't make it feasible (like a dungeoneering bot in color).

From: smurg
And I think new scripters could learn and be challenged just as much in reflection than color. I don't see why color is thought to take more skill. Sure the same script is easier in reflection, but why limit yourself to simple scripts then with reflection? If there's a need of a bigger "challenge" scripting-wise, then there would be plenty of scripts that would be suitable.

I disagree. The challenge of colour is getting it to work well, not the actual coding part of it. With reflection, you code it, it works 99% of the time (in my experience anyway).

From: smurg

Just because something is "possible" doesn't make it feasible (like a dungeoneering bot in color).

All scripts are the same, no matter what you're trying to do. It's a matter of how much time you're willing to spend making it. I bet you I could make any script in colour, including dungeoneering. That being said, I don't want to spend the time doing it, and I agree, it's not really ideal, but it can be done.

Like I said, when people talk about the challenge, it's getting it to work the best they can. With reflection, you simply call WalkToTile() and it'll walk to that tile without question. Colour is an entire different story.

From: Coh3n
…you code it, it works 99% of the time…

And this is a bad thing? WTH? I mean, like WTH??? Seriously dude, give your head a shake.

I can just imagine telling my boss I'm going to stop using the tools that work and start using the ones that take way longer to even come up with something that even partially works, just because "its more challenging." Helloooo unemployment. :duh:

From: Bixby Sayz
And this is a bad thing? WTH? I mean, like WTH??? Seriously dude, give your head a shake.

I can just imagine telling my boss I'm going to stop using the tools that work and start using the ones that take way longer to even come up with something that even partially works, just because "its more challenging." Helloooo unemployment. :duh:

Employment/Jobs/Boss …?

This is a hobby, not much money can be made here

From: Wanted
This is a hobby, not much money can be made here

Well…. you're half right.

From: Wanted
Employment/Jobs/Boss …?

This is a hobby, not much money can be made here

See: not SRL or S.C.A.R.

From: Bixby Sayz
And this is a bad thing? WTH? I mean, like WTH??? Seriously dude, give your head a shake.

I can just imagine telling my boss I'm going to stop using the tools that work and start using the ones that take way longer to even come up with something that even partially works, just because "its more challenging." Helloooo unemployment. :duh:

Lol, what? I didn't say it was a bad thing, so I think you should give your head a shake, or at least reread what I said. I said there was no challenge because it works 99% of the time. And like Wanted said, it's a hobby, not an job.

Sounds great for us, but wouldn't it be much work for developers/administrators?

From: Coh3n
That being said, I don't want to spend the time doing it, and I agree, it's not really ideal, but it can be done.

This seems to me to be a reasonable argument for the use of reflection. I think most people who choose to use reflection over color techniques would rather focus on having their script do nontrivial tasks instead of spending time making sure their script can walk somewhere or find an object reliably and efficiently.

I do understand that some people find that process more interesting and challenging, which is fine as well.

From: Method
This seems to me to be a reasonable argument for the use of reflection. I think most people who choose to use reflection over color techniques would rather focus on having their script do nontrivial tasks instead of spending time making sure their script can walk somewhere or find an object reliably and efficiently.

I do understand that some people find that process more interesting and challenging, which is fine as well.

Yeah. It all comes down to the person's preference. People could argue which is better all day, but in the end, people are going to do what they want. :p

From my experience being here for yonks. Colour scripting in the day was tiiiiiiiiiiiiime consuming to produce something that worked well (probably cause i was like a 12 year old idiot) but more recently like you can make a solid reflection script in a few hours, its brilliant, so stick with reflection, If anyone wants to update Colour so be it!

@ I love how im not a SRL Member anymore, whats going on here.

From: BobboHobbo
@ I love how im not a SRL Member anymore, whats going on here.

Relax, it's obviously a mistake. ;)

It's the individual scripters choice really. Me, I'll always script in colour and nothing else. I won't touch reflection, even on the more difficult areas, as that is a challenge that I must overcome instead of taking a shortcut/the easy way out.

For me, scripting is fun and a challenge without any time constraints. And I should use the best of my abilities to create that script.

From: BobboHobbo
probably cause i was like a 12 year old idiot

You still are, aren't you? :p

From: kingarabian
Color just as well wont die, and it would be foolish for us to let it die. Infact color will always be available to use for scripting even though it's not really being developed. No matter what Jagex updates in Rs you will always be able to use color in some way, because color basically reads the colors on the screen/interface/minimap/chat etc etc… and acts accordingly.

You cannot say the same for Java/reflection… Sure reflection right now is pretty much flawless and the most easiest and most efficient way to make a script. BUT if Jagex were to update something in there game engine or implement something to stop us from obtaining hooks or do something to stop us from getting hold of the client then, that's pretty much the nail in the coffin for reflection.

Color can be just as efficient as reflection; even though you may have to do so much extra coding (which is a damn good thing you lazy people lol). We could develop some easy to use/efficient procedures/functions for color right just as well, no? Honestly If I wanted to be a super leet programmer I would learn how to code with color 1st.

But its pretty stupid right now to say color is better than reflection for making Runescape scripts. Reflection is superior over color in every category. It's already been proven that you can make crazy ass scripts with Java/reflection(iDungeon). But how reliable is it? What if I wake up tomorrow and find that Reflection is no longer usable? Then what?

The point is clear: Color even though it's harder to use and implement, will always be available. Reflection despite it being super awesome/efficient and easy to use, can be unreliable and if Jagex updates something big then its pretty much dead. I don't know about you people but I still feel that Jagex will do a major update along with a mass ban ;). Yall remember when Jagex tried to take us out when they made colors ingame change over a period of time to throw off scripts? Well we got it around it!

So that's what makes SRL unique and beautiful. We have a failsafe for everything.

Oh and you know those leachers at Rsbot and Rsbuddy? Well they will come back right here.

:wub:

My prediction is that there is about a month of downtime for major bots maybe less than a few weeks for ibot and tribot. About 6 moths of downtime for SRL reflection (if lucky) and 2 months after that everyone will just forget about these things happening once again. History repeats itself, in 7 hours we will see a testament to that.

Just a prediction though.

From: Wanted
My prediction is that there is about a month of downtime for major bots maybe less than a few weeks for ibot and tribot. About 6 moths of downtime for SRL reflection (if lucky) and 2 months after that everyone will just forget about these things happening once again. History repeats itself, in 7 hours we will see a testament to that.

Just a prediction though.

I doubt we will be hit that hard… They nerf SMART, then we will go back to VM's. They some how nerf color then we have OpenGL.

From: kingarabian
I doubt we will be hit that hard… They nerf SMART, then we will go back to VM's. They some how nerf color then we have OpenGL.

I'm speaking only of reflection implementations that involve SMART.

I guess JaGeX has answered OP's questions by now.. ;)

Pretty much. :)

Reflection Scripting uses information that regular players wont see, and therefore, the information they depend could be blocked/limited. Needs constant updating. Reflection is easier. Hell, I think so too. Less logic and accuracy troubles I'd run into.

Colour Script uses the information that's exactly the same as what a regular player will see. What regular players can see and determine, colour bots should also be able to see and determine. As such, these scripts will, in the long run, survive because there is NO way to stop color scripts without preventing regular players from playing.
Of course its longer, of course its more tedious, but colour scripting have not been put to the max potential….
If we allow colour scripts to behave like a typical person's head. Detect colours or colour groups that are different from each other [So the script no longer actually looks for a colour, but a basic shape created by a group of similar colours]. This way, colour scripts do not need to be updated when the actual colors change, and it would be used on a more general item detection basis. With this in mind, Jagex can update their engine, coding, however they like, but they will still have to make the game playable by the regular player, therefore, playable by a colour script. Therefore, colour script will be the the long lasting grandpa and survive when reflection scripts would have issues. Colour scripts with that "AI" will require much less maintenance.


P.s.
A long while ago I suggested somewhere in the forums (back when it was www.srl-forums.com I think), I suggested to make colour functions detect colours groups that were different from each other. Blah, I had a feeling it was useful but never knew what.

From: Zyt3x
I guess JaGeX has answered OP's questions by now.. ;)

From: Coh3n
Pretty much. :)

I think the recent update has really fleshed out the distinctions between color and Java (reflection or bytecode injection) bots and color and Java scripts.

Developing a color bot involves coming up with algorithms that are rather simple (finding colors, identifying text, and so on) that scripters can then use to write scripts. The development of the bot itself takes a finite amount of work writing the aforementioned algorithms, and a scripter has to put in a good bit of work to use the tools available to him or her to write a working script.

On the other hand, developing a Java bot takes a significant amount of work over the entirety of the bot's existence. Granted, the amount of work after the initial framework is set up decreases, but it doesn't become negligible. Once that hard work is done, though, script writers have a lot of powerful information straight from the game to use to write scripts, which makes scripting quite a bit easier.

All in all, I think the choice of which to use simply depends on the perspective you have - either that of a bot developer, script writer, or both.

edit: Re-reading this, I'm not even sure if it's on-topic. Either way, I was thinking about it and figured that I might as well post about it. Hopefully it makes sense.

Completely agree there, Method. Reflection here was easy because we had SMART to access the client's information, and I'm willing to bet writing SMART was no easy task.

Now you know why you bother tho eh ? :p

Holy crap, didn't mean to post here.

/facepalm

From: abu_jwka
Holy crap, didn't mean to post here.

/facepalm

Lol glad you did though, it's really ironic reading OP. Now reflection is archived XD

From: lilcmp1
Lol glad you did though, it's really ironic reading OP. Now reflection is archived XD

Right :P, Color is pretty sophisticated now we have people using 3d engines etc. It is starting to get pretty awesome.

Some people who posted in 2011 must feel silly now :p ^ lolz

Heh OP is kind of funny now. Guess it's a good thing we never gave up on color. :)

Get out of here Cohen you useless twat!
Apparently we're not good enough for you Mt. Inactive!?
Why do you bother!?

Oh how the times have changed

I kind of wish I've been here for Reflection, would have been cool to see how it was used, but I was busy leeching those free NeXus scripts. :(

I never used Reflection when it was around, didn't care for it.

^the 1% that cared, OP!

Useless thread should be closed…

From: YoHoJo
Get out of here Cohen you useless twat!
Apparently we're not good enough for you Mt. Inactive!?
Why do you bother!?

That's not a very nice thing to say. :'(

Closed since it is a pointless discussion as mormonman pointed out.