SRL Archive - Discussions & Debates

http://www.freep.com/article/20110826/NEWS06/108260401/Michigan-medical-marijuana-sellers-close-up-shop-after-ruling?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|s

Shit hit the fan yesterday… I live in Ann Arbor and I just visited my dispensary on Wednesday. This is so much bullshit. Was wondering what my fellow michiganders thought of this…

Are you kidding me. How can these pigs take away medicine that thousands of people use on a daily basis for debilitating diseases. The people voted for cannabis to be legally used as medicine, now some conservative fucks are ruining peoples lives on the basis of pharma putting cash in their pockets.

Pathetic at most.

From: noidea
Are you kidding me. How can these pigs take away medicine thathousands of people use on a daily basis for debilitating diseases. The people voted for cannabis to be legally used as medicine, now some conservative fucks are ruining peoples lives on the basis of pharma putting cash in their pockets.

Pathetic at most.

If you read it, they aren't taking away the pot because its pot. They are removing the bad-business side of medical dispensaries, in other words people that are cashing in on other people's dependency on marijuana. It is still obtainable from caregivers. Here is a less-slanted article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/25/michigan-medical-marijuana_n_936214.html

"Thursday was a bad day to be among Michigan's nearly 100,000 medical marijuana patients and down to a last joint."

I lol'd. :p

But really.. shitty.

EDIT:

@mormonman, oh. I thought it was a little too extreme. This is nothing new. Same thing happened in Cali where any for-profit dispensaries were shut down. No problem with that, imo. A little more notice would've been better, but oh well.

@noidea:

Exactly. Fuck Rick Snyder and his puppets. I mean, I live in a tiny ass apartment and therefore cannot grow my own. Now I gotta find a caregiver… wait 3-4 months… and then be able to access my medicine. But we know no one is going to do that. Its all going underground again. Caregivers are still going to sell to patients, patients will sell to patients, and both will sell to people without cards. When you take away the legitimacy of patient to patient transfers, it makes selling to non-patients the same risk as strictly selling to cardholders.

Does no one think in this fucking country? Or do we just have a really bad case of prohibition-ism? This ignorance is just intolerable.

EDIT: Read that article as well mormonman…

The thing is, caregivers are still recieveing "donations" from their assigned patients. They will still charge by the gram, ounce, or whatever. It is still "selling" and profiting either way you look at it. This law just makes it more difficult to access your medicine. Also, I strongly disagree that this wasn't a "because it is pot" thing, mostly because of the reasons in the above sentences. Additionally, we must understand that it costs a lot of money to start growing and that under the legislation patients are allowed to have 12 plants. How does one expect a caregiver or patient to continue producing medicine without selling it to cover costs of energy, resources, time, effort ect.?

From: gerauchert
Exactly. Fuck Rick Snyder and his puppets. I mean, I live in a tiny ass apartment and therefore cannot grow my own. Now I gotta find a caregiver… wait 3-4 months… and then be able to access my medicine. But we know no one is going to do that. Its all going underground again. Caregivers are still going to sell to patients, patients will sell to patients, and both will sell to people without cards. When you take away the legitimacy of patient to patient transfers, it makes selling to non-patients the same risk as strictly selling to cardholders.

Does no one think in this fucking country? Or do we just have a really bad case of prohibition-ism? This ignorance is just intolerable.

Don't worry, new legislation will happen just like it did in California and other places. The government just wants a little more control over these dispensaries…as usual they like to "regulate" things.

From: noidea
Are you kidding me. How can these pigs take away medicine thathousands of people use on a daily basis for debilitating diseases. The people voted for cannabis to be legally used as medicine, now some conservative fucks are ruining peoples lives on the basis of pharma putting cash in their pockets.

Pathetic at most.

My thoughts exactly.

From: mormonman
If you read it, they aren't taking away the pot because its pot. They are removing the bad-business side of medical dispensaries, in other words people that are cashing in on other people's dependency on marijuana. It is still obtainable from caregivers. Here is a less-slanted article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/25/michigan-medical-marijuana_n_936214.html

much better article imo

From: gerauchert
Does no one think in this fucking country? Or do we just have a really bad case of prohibition-ism? This ignorance is just intolerable.

EDIT: Read that article as well mormonman…

The thing is, caregivers are still recieveing "donations" from their assigned patients. They will still charge by the gram, ounce, or whatever. It is still "selling" and profiting either way you look at it. This law just makes it more difficult to access your medicine. Also, I strongly disagree that this wasn't a "because it is pot" thing, mostly because of the reasons in the above sentences. Additionally, we must understand that it costs a lot of money to start growing and that under the legislation patients are allowed to have 12 plants. How does one expect a caregiver or patient to continue producing medicine without selling it to cover costs of energy, resources, time, effort ect.?

http://www.caregiversmichigan.com/michigan-law/

Have a read there. I think you misunderstand what rights you had under the previous law. These distribution centers were clearly against the "There is no place in the state of Michigan to legally purchase medical marihuana." bit. I'm sorry that people are suffering from this, but it is a drug and with all drugs there are regulations to keep those that recreationally use them away. (Don't argue about the effect of marijuana being less than alcohol, I know this and really don't care about it to be honest.)

So you have a crippling, painful disease? I'm sorry to hear that.

If you're just gaming the system to get high, sorry if I don't shed a tear for you.

I would without a doubt positively say that 95%+ of these 'patients' just want to get high and have no 'medical' use for it.

I don't see why there is even a fuss about this. If someone wants to smoke some weed then let them. If someone wants to sell it let them, someone wants to buy it who cares. As long as they aren't a danger to myself or anyone else I seriously don't care.

From: smurg
I would without a doubt positively say that 95%+ of these 'patients' just want to get high and have no 'medical' use for it.

You'd be incorrect with your 95%+ estimate.. I find it hard to believe that there are only 5,000 legitimate patients out if 100,000 people.

I do agree, however, that are large majority of the people in the medical marijuana 'business' are not using it to better themselves. There are often better ways to help with things than drugs (yes, weed is a drug, just as caffeine, Xanax, and Percocet all are, too), but the one thing is that weed can help with many things quite cheaply and extremely fast, two of which are important for many patients.

There are also some cases where weed is a far better alternative to almost (if not all) other remedies, but that is an extremely minuscule amount of people in the world, so I'm sure 0 out of 100,000 of those patients have that able to apply to them (although marijuana isn't a bad choice for many legitimate patients).

I don't personally enjoy the whole medical marijuana thing. It just gives people a sort of loophole to be arrogant pricks about.. "Oh, it's legal for me to smoke weed all I want because I have insomnia!" F*ck you. You don't have insomnia. It's still a felony, and you're making legitimate patients be portrayed as you in the media. It gives people a sense that they're above or better than the law/government, which is just stupid.

Just like how you can have unemployment benefits when you have a job. That's stupid. It takes funding away from actual unemployed people and abuses the system.

I'd much rather have people openly smoking weed legally than them having this dumb loophole for them to feel proud about.

From: tarajunky
So you have a crippling, painful disease? I'm sorry to hear that.

If you're just gaming the system to get high, sorry if I don't shed a tear for you.

I didn't ask for pity, sympathy, or anything in between… I am pissed at how backwards the logic is with how our congress prioritizes screwing over marijuana users over figuring out solutions to real issues. Medical marijuana is one of the last things those guys need to be messing with especially with the financial state that Michigan is currently in. They just struck a blow to a fresh source of tax income and are now acting like they did the "right thing". That alone is independent from your opinions about "gaming the system". Believe me, I would rather have this be 100% legal and not have to go through the sketchy medicinal aspect of it.

@mormanman

You are correct. There were no things set in place for dispensaries, but the law was ambiguous and therefore allowed dispensaries to flourish. The fact that selling is going to happen no matter what makes this a very bad decision in my opinion. I hope you are right about the regulation side of it… ill be crossing my fingers and waiting to see what happens over the next year.

None-the-less afaik it's still illegal on a federal level (which is so messed up on a variety of levels compared to state laws).

Seems like the government likes getting their grubby hands on everything and directing people on how they should live (they have totally destroyed the online poker landscape for me and many others as well).

Of course they skirt the issue and even if there was something to be done, it'd take forever.

I don't smoke weed, but I can see how it is definitely more useful and less harmful than cigarettes or alcohol (From an outsider's viewpoint; I don't drink or smoke either).

It just seems what agendas were followed earlier on in the countries history are more apt to stay and harder to change.

(I would be opposed to cocaine/meth/acid/lsd/etc however)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44806723/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/#.To5FJ6IRjf1


Here we go again, except in Cali and Federally induced.

From: noidea
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44806723/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/#.To5FJ6IRjf1


Here we go again, except in Cali and Federally induced.

Wow, since when did federal law have authority over state law on anything not included in the constitution. Did I miss something in my 5th grade social studies class?…

From: mormonman
Wow, since when did federal law have authority over state law on anything not included in the constitution. Did I miss something in my 5th grade social studies class?…

Since forever? Fed. law always, at all times has priority over state law.
Although off topic, if you want to see something entirely screwed up, Obama made an executive order to assassinate a US Citizen without due process, although he is a terrorist. I see this, and can only think 'The Fuck.'

There are the things executive orders are made for, such as the Commander in Chief ordering troop movement, etc. Then there are the mindless Bullshit ridden cases like the executive order being used to bypass Congress and instate NEW LAWS. Something has to be done, this is a DICTATORSHIP.

From: Latest reading

The landlord was ordered to evict the 14-year-old pot club or risk imprisonment, plus forfeiture of the property and all the rent he has collected while the dispensary has been in business, Anton said.

That Sucks…

From: noidea
Since forever? Fed. law always, at all times has priority over state law.

It has always been enforced over state law, but it doesn't have power over it(power as in the legal power). Prove me wrong.

From: mormonman
It has always been enforced over state law, but it doesn't have power over it(power as in the legal power). Prove me wrong.

Yes, according to the Supremacy clause as written. However, the court case Edgar v. Mite Corporation (1982), establishes the Supreme Court's interpretation of the Supremacy clause to mean "A state statute is void to the extent that it actually conflicts with a valid Federal statute." Meaning any State law cannot conflict with any Federal law.

Then again in 2000 they basically reaffirmed it with Crosby v. National Foreign Trade Council (2000), saying that even when a State law is not in direct conflict with a Federal law, the State law could still be found unconstitutional under the Supremacy Clause if the "state law is an obstacle to the accomplishment and execution of Congress's full purposes and objectives".

But then look how the Fed. bastardizes the Interstate commerce clause so it can regulate everything. Its the same sort of thing :/

I think this one is much more interesting.

http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/10/04/8153459-irs-ruling-strikes-fear-in-medical-marijuana-industry

So, if you're really out there trying to help suffering people, you can keep doing so. But you can't deduct all your expenses like a reputable business can.

It's interesting because it really exposes the fact that these dispensaries are all about money. If they can't rake in massive profits, they will close down.

There was a PBS special a few nights ago talking about a mobster that did pretty much the same thing with alcohol during Prohibition. He bought up all the distilleries and all the booze that couldn't be sold anymore, then he bought up a bunch of Drug Stores and started dispensing the booze for "medicinal purposes".

The only hiccup was that for every barrel of booze he sold, he needed to get a federal waiver. His first trip was to Washington DC where he paid off the man that decided which waivers to approve for almost $250,000, which was a huge amount of money back in the 1920's.

These guys are criminals, they are only in it for the money, I hope they all close down.

I personally would rather the dispensaries make the profit, rather than the cartels.

From: Harry
I personally would rather the dispensaries make the profit, rather than the cartels.

Well, currently dispensaries have to be non-profit, but yeah. Prohibition doesn't work, it simply makes money at the cost of lives and freedoms.

Oh well.

"Non-profit" is not an obstacle. You just hire yourself as CEO and pay yourself an exorbitant salary, then hire all your friends and pay all of them a huge salary, then deduct it all as "expenses". There's no "profit", but everyone's making bank.

Why do you think there's practically a dispensary on every corner in LA, and people are flocking in from out of state to set them up?