SRL Archive - Discussions and Debates

Listen up SRL. I wish to pronounce myself to possibly end the debate between Reflection and (color) SRL.

1 : The Simplicity of Reflection

Sure Reflection simplifies many aspect of RSBotting, but does it not, in fact, add something positive to our scripting community ?

You see, many here tend to say : "Reflection is too simple, color is more complex, color shows more skill…", you, I, we've heard them all. However, you must also understand that, if we can make a working script with Reflection, despite its lesser complexity, why not ?

2 : Why not Reflection ?

Reflection is the new, better form of botting in my opinion. You see, sure the hooks get outdated, but so what ?

The hooks are updated => The close-to-flawless scripts work again.

And never, ever is there a long (by long i mean multiple weeks) downtime of our Reflection anymore.

Reflection is, if well coded, much easier to acheive flawlessness (Word ?) with than by using color.

3 : Why stay with Color ?

Yes, why SRL, why ? So some of the people around here can keep their elitistic status towards the newbies ?

"You came in later on, you learned the new, more efficient (and simple) way of botting; I on the other hand, came in close to the beginning ! There was no IDs or Tiles ! Everything used color from the elements on the mainscreen ! I went through rougher learning and botting times, thus I am superior to you, and I won't let you obtain my status if you aren't as qualified as I am !"

That is how i see the logic of numerous voters on the applications of today.

Cycrocism for example, often solely bases a vote on the presence of Reflection or not. That is, in my opinion, completely stupid.

Basically, that is like saying :

"Why should I go learn C++ ?! C can do the same stuff, if not more !"

Maybe because by going with the newer language, you can acheive much more efficient code, for example, shorten it by a few thousand lines than if you used the older one ?

There is no real reason to stay with color, but for the oldies to keep their elitistic status and feel proud of themselves. Well, that is how I see it.

4 : Yeah, what should we do then ?

What we want, is to get more qualified scripters to become SRL Members. We want people who can make working scripts to expand the botting on the RS community. Working scripts. That is the keyword.

People who can make working scripts.

But a script that works, isn't enough, we want scripts which take in count external events that might influence the botting course (random events are a good example, closed doors aswell).

However, most of the time, the code is simply read, criticised, and then the application denied or approved.

But what about the script ? In theory, it should work right ? I mean, it looked fine ?

Often, that is wrong. The script may work in theory but in practice, that is a whole different story. For example my script, a clay softener using the well at edgeville.

Sure, the code was there, and things seemed to be in order, they seemed to work, but the script would not in the actual game. Had you guys tested that, I surely would not have been accepted. You found out I have scripting skills, certainly, but would the scripts I would create in the future work ?

If the scripts don't work, what is the point ?

We should test the scripts in the actual game before accepting someone, and also look at their general attitude.

For example, if various members with accounts who are ready to test the scripts can, they should post the progress reports on the application and then post, for example : suggestions or comments about times when the script had a problem. And with that, the code attached to the problem and a possible solution.

That would also help alot with one thing : deception. I cannot imagine the deception of an applicant having worked hard on a script to make it work in the actual game, when it infact, isn't even tested, just bruised through. How sad.

I agree with most points, but I think most of this is understood by the community. The few that base applications solely on reflection shouldn't be enough to completely distort the voting counts.

I agree about the theory vs workability, I think that needs to be sorted out a bit as anyone can copy and paste a TPA structure, change it a bit and use it in a script where it doesn't work.

I do however disagree with your remarks towards color scripting. It is, and will be a vital part of SRL and these forums. I personally think it holds the same abilities as reflection, while both color and reflection can complete certain tasks (such as reflection walking) better, or easier than the other.

Finally, your rap on color has pushed your argument backwards, the real issue that should be stressed is the compatibility of color and reflection, not one or the other. Attempting to prove one is above the other only feeds the flame, it does not end anything.

If someone writes an updater for reflection and applies with it, I'd vote yes for sure.
Yaknow, I can update colour myself. So I did for many scripts (most notable some of Wizzup's old 2007 script), they still work.
Besides I want brains, the average IQ in members has been declining for some time.

Also, Dervish, you forget that members is about brains and not about writing a good script. When I can write a yewcutter with reflection after 12 beers, that certainly says something about the requird IQ

Agree with this completely. Reflection seems to be looked down upon although, like already stated, it provides reliability.

From: Markus
When I can write a yewcutter with reflection after 12 beers, that certainly says something about the requird IQ

I'd be running around the streets naked shouting "legalize leng!" after 12 beers, not scripting :p


*Leng = weed. Yeah, H-town is mad like that. Made up words can and do mean anything down here.

From: Markus
If someone writes an updater for reflection and applies with it, I'd vote yes for sure.
Yaknow, I can update colour myself. So I did for many scripts (most notable some of Wizzup's old 2007 script), they still work.
Besides I want brains, the average IQ in members has been declining for some time.

Also, Dervish, you forget that members is about brains and not about writing a good script. When I can write a yewcutter with reflection after 12 beers, that certainly says something about the requird IQ

This is pretty much my outlook on it.

Anyone can achieve an SRL Membership status with Reflection if we judge off how the scripts work. If you can read and write, you can write a Reflection script that runs for hours, plain and simple.

It's the complexity, innovation and over all knowledge that should get people in.

From: NCDS
This is pretty much my outlook on it.

Anyone can achieve an SRL Membership status with Reflection if we judge off how the scripts work. If you can read and write, you can write a Reflection script that runs for hours, plain and simple.

It's the complexity, innovation and over all knowledge that should get people in.

COMPLETELY WRONG !

You do not know if the scripts work ! They are never ran !

I think it would be another story if reflection was on the verge of replacing color, but that is obviously not the case. Reflection has its uses. It works great for what it does, and it is very easy to whip up a script with. But it is only a supplement to SRL's greatness. SRL's vast library is 100% color and it is amazing.

Should members completely disregard applications that use reflection? I don't think so, but if it is a PURE reflection script then I think there might be good reason to judge harshly. However, what about pure reflection scripts that are complex, unique, and actually work good? I think it would be ignorant to deny membership to someone who shows exceptional scripting skills, even if it is with reflection. Even so, I don't recall seeing any utterly amazing reflection applications anyways.

Should applications demonstrate knowledge of color scripting? 100% Yes, because that is what SRL uses and it is what SRL is all about. What happens if Jagex updates the game so that reflection is no longer possible (*not sure if it actually is possible)? Color is our foundation, and ultimately the fall-back for autoing if they decide to be a bunch of assholes and ruin java botting.

In short, I agree with what you are trying to say, but it is no reason to bash on color or color scripters. I don't see them as elitist for wanting members to have color scripting skills, but I have read some pretty ridiculous posts from anti-reflection members that could be taken as "elitist". But it only comes down to a matter of opinion. Let them have theirs and you can keep your own.

In my opinion, I would want to see applications displaying formidable knowledge of both color and reflection as they are indeed complements to each other and can be used to back each other up. Also, I agree that the script should be tested before it is fully judged. That way members can provide better feedback to the applicant instead of "that doesn't look like it would run too good".

From: Dervish
COMPLETELY WRONG !

You do not know if the scripts work ! They are never ran !

My mistake, I do think the scripts should work, but that's not hard to accomplish with Reflection. I should have specified.

Well first of all, I don't agree with you calling color scripters elitists at all. Sure, there may be some up on their high horse (some of them are devs/mods/admins/SSRL), but that doesn't mean we should just be 100% okay with 100% reflection. (Also, there are plenty of people who are up on their high horse about reflection as well, so that whole argument is just silly.)

Reflection is not a part of the SRL include. So I see no reason to which why we should just say it's okay because it can run "better." (It can do some things quite fantastically, but also has it's let downs, just as color scripting has its.) Learning the syntax of PS and how to use a library is important. But it's not showing that they know how to use SRL, which is what this forum was made for.

Also, new is not always better. Look at all the desktop environments that are made all that time, which all have their downfalls. Look at all the new SQL stuff being made over and over again. And Microsoft making new compilers and the stupid .NET framework and trying to get everybody to conform to their product. It's absolutely moronic (no offense) to try to say that a single thing is better than the other, and to try to get everyone to follow that one thing (not in the case of standards or ANSI/ISO stuff, but that's entirely different :p). There will be some of us who do prefer color because we see it as better. Some of us will prefer reflection because they see it better. There's no reason to try to end that.

I like color for simply the fact that I can auto on my browser and I feel safer that way.

I have nothing against reflection applications as long as they are not too simple.

There are things you wouldn't use color for and there are things you wouldn't use reflection for. Everyone should go back to enjoy their soft, comfortable bed.

Reflection requires almost no skill. Colour scripts work after an update

From: cycrosism
Reflection requires almost no skill. Colour scripts work after an update

But still, if a person can make quality scripts that run well with reflection (despite the script being easier to make), don't we still want that person in members?

We look at SRL scripting ability, not reflection

From: cycrosism
We look at SRL scripting ability, not reflection

we look at scripting ability. Understanding SRL is important, but that is not to say you do not understand how to script just because you use reflection.

Yeah, srl scripting ability.

From: cycrosism
Yeah, srl scripting ability.

You explain your side really well.

From: Blumblebee
we look at scripting ability. Understanding SRL is important, but that is not to say you do not understand how to script just because you use reflection.

I addressed that in my post. :<

But also, cycrosism has a broken wrist/arm, so he really shouldn't be typing a whole lot anyway. :p

http://i.imgur.com/JfLQt.jpg

From: Griff
But still, if a person can make quality scripts that run well with reflection (despite the script being easier to make), don't we still want that person in members?

I can make a quality woodcutting script that runs forever in a couple hundred lines with reflection. Should I be in members? Oh, and that includes banking.

Should we let people in that use reflection, absolutely, but the script should still show the same level of scripting as a color script would. This most likely means that if two people applied with a draynor willow cutter and one was in reflection, one was in color, there's a better chance the one written in color would get accepted before the one in reflection.

To show a high level of scripting ability in reflection, what the script does has to be more complicated than one in color.

From: i luffs yeww
cycrosism has a broken wrist/arm, so he really shouldn't be typing a whole lot anyway. :p

http://i.imgur.com/JfLQt.jpg

you told me to put a shoe on it and take a picture so i did hahah. yes i can onl type with my right hand so it is a lot harder to type

From: Coh3n
I can make a quality woodcutting script that runs forever in a couple hundred lines with reflection. Should I be in members? Oh, and that includes banking.

Can be done with 240 lines, including intelligent tree switching, multiplayer and progress report ;)

Should we let people in that use reflection, absolutely, but the script should still show the same level of scripting as a color script would. This most likely means that if two people applied with a draynor willow cutter and one was in reflection, one was in color, there's a better chance the one written in color would get accepted before the one in reflection.

To show a high level of scripting ability in reflection, what the script does has to be more complicated than one in color.

Agreed.
I'd like to elaborate my point of view on this a bit.
Reflection can do many more complex things than colour. Certain things are just plain impossible (think of dungeoneering). If someone applies with a well-written pest controller in reflection, or some cool dungeoneering script, then I think even cycrocism should vote yes at it due to the overall complexity, regardless of the colour/reflection debate.

But if we take a look at a majority of reflection applications, they are all (with reflection) trivial miners, woodcutters and that sort of thing..

From: Coh3n
I can make a quality woodcutting script that runs forever in a couple hundred lines with reflection. Should I be in members? Oh, and that includes banking.

Should we let people in that use reflection, absolutely, but the script should still show the same level of scripting as a color script would. This most likely means that if two people applied with a draynor willow cutter and one was in reflection, one was in color, there's a better chance the one written in color would get accepted before the one in reflection.

To show a high level of scripting ability in reflection, what the script does has to be more complicated than one in color.

Oh yeah, despite the fact that the color one doesn't work as well as the one in Reflection ? :rolleyes:, what do you know about it ? What do I know about it ? The scripts are never ran.

From: Markus
Can be done with 240 lines, including intelligent tree switching, multiplayer and progress report ;)



Agreed.
I'd like to elaborate my point of view on this a bit.
Reflection can do many more complex things than colour. Certain things are just plain impossible (think of dungeoneering). If someone applies with a well-written pest controller in reflection, or some cool dungeoneering script, then I think even cycrocism should vote yes at it due to the overall complexity, regardless of the colour/reflection debate.

But if we take a look at a majority of reflection applications, they are all (with reflection) trivial miners, woodcutters and that sort of thing..

I do not beleive you. Let's say a limit of 100 lines, reflection, can you make a woodcutting script that runs for more than 4 hours proggy ? Including everything you mentioned ?

Also you guys are very high ranked and very very experienced scripters so you don't count ^^. Also, the fact that you can, assuming that it is even true, whip up a good script in a few hundred lines with Reflection, is actually, in my opinion a good thing.

From: Markus
Can be done with 240 lines, including intelligent tree switching, multiplayer and progress report ;)



Agreed.
I'd like to elaborate my point of view on this a bit.
Reflection can do many more complex things than colour. Certain things are just plain impossible (think of dungeoneering). If someone applies with a well-written pest controller in reflection, or some cool dungeoneering script, then I think even cycrocism should vote yes at it due to the overall complexity, regardless of the colour/reflection debate.

But if we take a look at a majority of reflection applications, they are all (with reflection) trivial miners, woodcutters and that sort of thing..

Exactly my point. :)

From: Dervish
Oh yeah, despite the fact that the color one doesn't work as well as the one in Reflection ? :rolleyes:, what do you know about it ? What do I know about it ? The scripts are never ran.

I don't find it a test of anyone's scripting ability if they make a reflection script that works. If you're whole point is that the applicant's scripts aren't tested, then fine, but it's turning in to a reflection vs. color debate. :p

From: Dervish

I do not beleive you. Let's say a limit of 100 lines, reflection, can you make a woodcutting script that runs for more than 4 hours proggy ? Including everything you mentioned ?

Well he said 240 lines, not 100. I'm not really sure why you asked that, but you'd be surprised what can be done with 100 lines.

From: Dervish

Also you guys are very high ranked and very very experienced scripters so you don't count ^^. Also, the fact that you can, assuming that it is even true, whip up a good script in a few hundred lines with Reflection, is actually, in my opinion a good thing.

We don't count? I'm going to assume you were joking around because obviously our vote counts just as much as anyone else's. :p And of course it's a good thing, it means more scripts will be written, but that doesn't mean they'll be member's worthy in everyone's eyes.

From: Coh3n
Exactly my point. :)


I don't find it a test of anyone's scripting ability if they make a reflection script that works. If you're whole point is that the applicant's scripts aren't tested, then fine, but it's turning in to a reflection vs. color debate. :p



Well he said 240 lines, not 100. I'm not really sure why you asked that, but you'd be surprised what can be done with 100 lines.


We don't count? I'm going to assume you were joking around because obviously our vote counts just as much as anyone else's. :p And of course it's a good thing, it means more scripts will be written, but that doesn't mean they'll be member's worthy in everyone's eyes.

1) We want scripters who can make working scripts ? That is all.

2) You said 100 lines ? Oh, I've been dreaming again, sorry :).

3) Of course you count, but if you take the exemplars, it won't prove anything ;). An average person would not succeed in doing the same thing. And it is the average person here we are looking at, not the elite :).

1) Of course, but they can make working scripts as a registered user or jr member. Just because they can make working scripts doesn't necessarily mean they deserve to be a member.

2) Fair enough; although, the reason we can make them so short is because we take advantage of the includes provided to us. ;)

From: Coh3n
I can make a quality woodcutting script that runs forever in a couple hundred lines with reflection. Should I be in members? Oh, and that includes banking.

Should we let people in that use reflection, absolutely, but the script should still show the same level of scripting as a color script would. This most likely means that if two people applied with a draynor willow cutter and one was in reflection, one was in color, there's a better chance the one written in color would get accepted before the one in reflection.

To show a high level of scripting ability in reflection, what the script does has to be more complicated than one in color.

I don't doubt that YOU could make a reflection script in a couple hundred lines. But the average joe applying, probably not. And if they can, wouldn't that be an accomplishment?

From: Griff
I don't doubt that YOU could make a reflection script in a couple hundred lines. But the average joe applying, probably not. And if they can, wouldn't that be an accomplishment?

Depends on what the script does I suppose. Obviously, you would expect a script written by myself or Markus to be at a higher level than someone applying. I think that we just have different views of what we're looking for in an application. By the sounds of it, you just want the script to work, and work well, while I, while wanting it to work, expect it to be a more complex script that shows imagination and problem solving, rather than just working well.

From: Coh3n
Depends on what the script does I suppose. Obviously, you would expect a script written by myself or Markus to be at a higher level than someone applying. I think that we just have different views of what we're looking for in an application. By the sounds of it, you just want the script to work, and work well, while I, while wanting it to work, expect it to be a more complex script that shows imagination and problem solving, rather than just working well.

Where I am lost in the debate is that reflection can provide those things for you in a different manner than color, thus meeting the requirements simply with (presumably) less lines.

From: Blumblebee
Where I am lost in the debate is that reflection can provide those things for you in a different manner than color, thus meeting the requirements simply with (presumably) less lines.

Yeah. When I said I was looking for something more complex, I wasn't excluding reflection. ;) I'm just saying that if the script was 100% reflection, I would expect something like a cow hide collector opposed to a 100% color script that mines and banks at VE mine.

From: Coh3n
Yeah. When I said I was looking for something more complex, I wasn't excluding reflection. ;) I'm just saying that if the script was 100% reflection, I would expect something like a cow hide collector opposed to a 100% color script that mines and banks at VE mine.

Even if that miner script is close to flawless ?

From: Dervish
Even if that miner script is close to flawless ?

At the very least "close to flawless" should be expected with a Reflection members app and really doesn't stand out at all, IMO anyways.

From: Dervish
Even if that miner script is close to flawless ?

I expect a reflection application to be flawless. Not that I vote anymore anyway, but that's what I would expect.

//to be used with single player in Draynor

begin
  SetupSRL;
  DeclarePlayers;
  LoginPlayer;
  WalkTo(Bank);

  repeat
    SetupPlayer;
    WalkTo(Trees);
    repeat
      if SC_Find(TREE_WILLOW) then 
      while Players[i].Animation = ANIM_CHOP do
        wait(300);
    until(invfull)
 
    WalkTo(Bank);
    Bankit;  
  until(not Loggedin)
end;

Am I in? It cuts trees and banks them…


Color is catching up to reflection big time. Reflection for 'normal' activities is no longer 'special', as color can reach very similar results. What colour can't do is read the client and the IDs and see things outside the screen, etc. That's where Reflection > Colour.

With the WorldWalkers, AutoColorAids, MSI, SRL, Colour is a perfectly fitting competing tool versus Reflection in Runescape botting.

What Colour can't do is go beyond the image in front of you

~RM

From: Sir R. M8gic1an

//to be used with single player in Draynor

begin
  SetupSRL;
  DeclarePlayers;
  LoginPlayer;
  WalkTo(Bank);

  repeat
    SetupPlayer;
    WalkTo(Trees);
    repeat
      if SC_Find(TREE_WILLOW) then 
      while Players[i].Animation = ANIM_CHOP do
        wait(300);
    until(invfull)
 
    WalkTo(Bank);
    Bankit;  
  until(not Loggedin)
end;

Am I in? It cuts trees and banks them…


Color is catching up to reflection big time. Reflection for 'normal' activities is no longer 'special', as color can reach very similar results. What colour can't do is read the client and the IDs and see things outside the screen, etc. That's where Reflection > Colour.

With the WorldWalkers, AutoColorAids, MSI, SRL, Colour is a perfectly fitting competing tool versus Reflection in Runescape botting.

What Colour can't do is go beyond the image in front of you

~RM

Yeah, and the first random you meet shall be your end. Come on, you know I wouldn't vote someone in with that kind of script.

ACA, WW… those tools are not to be used for applications, or at least they are looked down upon.

From: Dervish
Yeah, and the first random you meet shall be your end.

Wrong. I would be willing to bet that color solver have a higher success rate than Reflection solvers right now. Granted, there are a few that color can't even really attempt right now (mordaut, leo, etc.) but they are still solvable with color. I'll be back at them when I get some time again.

From: NCDS
Wrong. I would be willing to bet that color solver have a higher success rate than Reflection solvers right now. Granted, there are a few that color can't even really attempt right now (mordaut, leo, etc.) but they are still solvable with color. I'll be back at them when I get some time again.

Was talking about his script…

Keep in mind, this isn't a ref/color debate thread…

From: Dervish
Yeah, and the first random you meet shall be your end. Come on, you know I wouldn't vote someone in with that kind of script.

ACA, WW… those tools are not to be used for applications, or at least they are looked down upon.

Reflection is more of a tool than any of those…….

From: Dervish
I do not beleive you. Let's say a limit of 100 lines, reflection, can you make a woodcutting script that runs for more than 4 hours proggy ? Including everything you mentioned ?

Sure. Woodcutter/banker huh?
280 lines for everything I mentioned, 100 lines for 'just working'.

From: Dervish
Also you guys are very high ranked and very very experienced scripters so you don't count ^^. Also, the fact that you can, assuming that it is even true, whip up a good script in a few hundred lines with Reflection, is actually, in my opinion a good thing.

So no one should comment unless they're stupid imbeciles?
Let me tell you that rank doesn't control brains around here…

Reflection can do things color cannot. Using color to do things takes intuition. Especially in the earlier life of SRL. People were constantly coming out with new and better ways to accomplish something. I remember when TPA's became streamlined and they were the newest coolest thing. Wizzy plugin was like reflection. We could do anything!!! :D

It seems now that people just use a quick Reflection thing to do what they want. I never see someone actually using in depth interfaces etc with reflection. They just use the includes… =/

I vote based on the persons creativeness and intuition. You are born with or without creativity. You cannot learn to be creative. You can force yourself to come up with new things if you try enough. I don't care if it's color or reflection. HOWEVER, I've noticed a trend in reflection scripts… =/

If the staff arranged for a certain group of people to vote on applications, and only that group would vote, would you guys be in favour of it?

The idea here would be to make use of the judge cup. This would be extremely easy to implement, in terms of implementing it into the forums. The question that remains is who would vote, how and why. And I imagine it'd start as a small group and people would be promoted to voters when they'd show they could produce a fair, good vote.

Lookin for feedback.

~RM

From: Sir R. M8gic1an
If the staff arranged for a certain group of people to vote on applications, and only that group would vote, would you guys be in favour of it?

The idea here would be to make use of the judge cup. This would be extremely easy to implement, in terms of implementing it into the forums. The question that remains is who would vote, how and why. And I imagine it'd start as a small group and people would be promoted to voters when they'd show they could produce a fair, good vote.

Lookin for feedback.

~RM

Absolutely. I would love to see this implemented. Possible attributes that you could consider looking for when drafting the list:

Activeness
Feedback that the user has provided on previous votes
How long they've been around
Their knowledge on scripting

Rasta love, :p

From: Markus
Sure. Woodcutter/banker huh?
280 lines for everything I mentioned, 100 lines for 'just working'.

Thing is, you're not the average scripter applying for membership. You have those techniques and stuff you learn when intensively developping. 280 lines for a woodcutter / banker, sure, but that, honestly, in my opinion, would not prove anything. A jr member doing that when applying would be different ;).

Markus, I would be very interested to see that happen though, your idea of the Woodcutter banker in 240 lines… Also, that is no negative thing, that the amount of code can be shorter… ;).

From: footballjds
So no one should comment unless they're stupid imbeciles?
Let me tell you that rank doesn't control brains around here…

Reflection can do things color cannot. Using color to do things takes intuition. Especially in the earlier life of SRL. People were constantly coming out with new and better ways to accomplish something. I remember when TPA's became streamlined and they were the newest coolest thing. Wizzy plugin was like reflection. We could do anything!!! :D

It seems now that people just use a quick Reflection thing to do what they want. I never see someone actually using in depth interfaces etc with reflection. They just use the includes… =/

I vote based on the persons creativeness and intuition. You are born with or without creativity. You cannot learn to be creative. You can force yourself to come up with new things if you try enough. I don't care if it's color or reflection. HOWEVER, I've noticed a trend in reflection scripts… =/

Ohhhh ranks DO control brains around here. I see applications where there is a streak of no votes, when suddenly higher ranked people vote yes and suddenly they get positive ratio in votes.

But is it a negative thing to use reflection for that ? I mean, it takes a lesser amount of code to do the task. Okay, maybe during an application it'll be frowned upon, but in an average script, if you can shorten the code, why not ?

I agree reflection is not used to its full potential, far from, but that is subject to another debate.

In my opinion, you become creative over time, you are not born creative or not. The environnment you live in, the things you observe, the people around you inspire you and increase your creativity. That, however is also subject to another debate.

From: Sir R. M8gic1an
If the staff arranged for a certain group of people to vote on applications, and only that group would vote, would you guys be in favour of it?

The idea here would be to make use of the judge cup. This would be extremely easy to implement, in terms of implementing it into the forums. The question that remains is who would vote, how and why. And I imagine it'd start as a small group and people would be promoted to voters when they'd show they could produce a fair, good vote.

Lookin for feedback.

~RM

I'd be in favor for testing of scripts, to see the functionality of the object in question. Voters is already a closed group (SRL Members).

From: Sir R. M8gic1an
If the staff arranged for a certain group of people to vote on applications, and only that group would vote, would you guys be in favour of it?

The idea here would be to make use of the judge cup. This would be extremely easy to implement, in terms of implementing it into the forums. The question that remains is who would vote, how and why. And I imagine it'd start as a small group and people would be promoted to voters when they'd show they could produce a fair, good vote.

Lookin for feedback.

~RM

As good as the idea sounds, how could people who don't already have the cup earn the cup (and be able to vote) if they can't display how they vote in the first place?

From: Rich
As good as the idea sounds, how could people who don't already have the cup earn the cup (and be able to vote) if they can't display how they vote in the first place?

Simple. Let everyone give feedback(member+). But only let certain people vote.

@RM, I think that would be a brilliant idea. Not only because we could make sure that only people who are knowledgeable with the include and don't just scroll through and see a few things will vote yes.

There have been quite a few people voted in with scripts that really weren't very advanced, but they were long, had DDTMs, TPAs, and some other "cool" stuff. But really the work done was close to none.

Also, people can show they could vote without even being able to comment on apps. The only reason I think that may be a better idea is because if members can comment on applications but only a select few can vote (I'd expect those few to explain why), threads would indubitably lead to debates virtually 100% of the time, I'm sure. And that's really not what we want new members coming into or getting denied by, is it? We should have a few people focused on the discussion of whether or not the applicant should get in yet or not, and clutter isn't necessary in that situation.

I say there are a few obvious people who could be voters, but quite a few of those are too busy to be the only ones in. I think that it should be based on how clear one can be, how well one is with SRL, and a good understanding of reflection should be important, as I don't think we should completely look over any reflection, but it should be critiqued just as color is.

And testing of the script should also be expected to happen. The more the better, as well, so maybe get people who are willing to test scripts (I could provide an account for this if my account can use the script ;)).

there are only like 20 some or less people that vote already, meaning that cutting that number only slims down the voices portrayed in the votes and proves to make things more biased. Besides, we are all members, we're all big boys, and we all understand what should and should not be allowed into members. I think the contrast in idea's only helps to solidify that applications should prove a broad basis of knowledge.

From: Blumblebee
Besides, we are all members, we're all big boys, and we all understand what should and should not be allowed into members.

Agreed, members earn the right to decide who will stand among them when they themselves are voted in. If only a select few were able to decide who would move up to members, there would be controversy with "the majority liked this reflection script, but the judges are biased towards color", or vise versa. I think the current system works just fine, it would be nice to see more members active in the voting :)