SRL Archive - The Bashing Club / BBQ Pit

I just got my an assignment and test back of my C# teacher, who is also coincidentally my COBOL teacher. My grade is suffering in both classes. I've taken a bunch of other programming classes with a 3.5+ gpa

On my assignment I got 65/100, and 40/100 on my test. Her handwriting sucks, it took me like 20 minutes to read this message on my assignment.

"learn from code from book - not what you A) learned from someone else or B) a different class!"

I was like wtf, i'm limited to code the rest of the students learned…Basically if it hasn't been covered I can't use it.

Also in my program I purposely disobeyed one of the rules she wanted programmed in because it makes no sense.

She wants me to calculate totals only have after 1 customer and their coffee of choice has been in. Which makes no sense, it is better to calculate after 2 customers.

Why? Well because if I only enter one customer I know what the total is. Not only that, I also know the max, min, median, average, and everything…there is ONLY ONE ENTRY!!!

Not only that she declares her variables like this

private decimal variable 1;
private decimal variable 2;
private decimal variable 3;
etc.

i prefer…

private decimal variable 1, variable 2, variable 3;

oh and god forbid I forget to name the form, it's only a one form application.

At the top of my test she wrote. "This what not turned in?"
WTF?!?!? if it wasn't turned in how did she grade it?

I showed up an hour late for the test because my brother had crap to do..so I had only half the time. So I had to skip some of the less important things like access keys.

Apparently if the menu strip is worth 8 points, the access keys are worth 3. Yet the clear option is only 1 point.

she circled "Follow our naming conventions; navigation etc." then wrote "name form. Constants all Caps + Const, data types as part of name."
First off, because I showed up late I didn't even get to the part where I needed to use a Const. So it wasn't even in the app. And secondly, GOD FORGIVE ME for not wanting to write…

private decimal imadecimalDecimal;

because

private decimal imadecimal;

means an automatic failure. This isn't a commercial application, I should be graded on functionality.

I'm just pissed.

You should talk to her man.

And maybe even spank her? Just to make sure she understands.

From: Floor66
You should talk to her man.

I could but I don't know what i'd say.

From: Frement
And maybe even spank her? Just to make sure she understands.

This made me laugh, lol ty Frement. You just brightened my day a bit.

Just say that there's nothing wrong with your way of doing stuff. And ask why exactly she's enforcing all those silly (don't actually say that) rules.

Try to get her to reason with you.

I've already tried that, for example a few weeks ago in my COBOL class we were covering flowcharts. Which I hadn't done in about 4 years because I hate 'em.

On a test we had to name the symbols shown, and give a command that goes with the symbol.

She marked me down for writing the Predefined Process symbol as Module (it's the same thing) and for writing Conditional when the book says Decision.

When I asked her about it, she told me I can't trust information I find online or other classes. Which makes no sense.

Well if it's not gonna make any difference whatsoever to the program, I don't see why she has to be so anal about it :/

Different people use different coding methods. I agree with you, but you aren't going about the best way to solve it.

Use her coding methods, as ridiculous as they may be (I have to do the same thing in my job all the time), then when you have a good grade in the class, try to reason with her. All you are doing right now is showing a lack of respect, which may be well-founded, but a lack of respect none the less, and she knows it. She won't listen to you, until she feels like you respect her.

This isn't just something you will have to do in school, but throughout life, especially if you want to hold down a job. People in authority can be ridiculous, but blatantly not doing what they say, won't help you in the slightest.

LOL!!!!!!!!!! This is the second best teacher hating post I ever read.. The First was:

"My teacher pointed at me with a ruler and said 'the person at the end of this ruler is an idiot' " I replied: "Sir which end of the ruler were u talking about" and got detention!

LOL!!!! oh man I love the teacher hate posts.. they make my day. but honestly talk to her and tell her screw off.. I dont see why she is grading u on syntax when yours is better. And wtf ask her why you would calculate for one person and not two cuz clearly she is bad at math.

So you show up an hour late to the test, don't follow the instructions given to you, and now you're complaining because your grade is suffering?

There's always someone in charge of the person in charge.

From: Method
So you show up an hour late to the test, don't follow the instructions given to you, and now you're complaining because your grade is suffering?

Agreed. Your teacher might be a bit OTT on some things, but there's a reason why that extra hour was there.

From: sirlaughsalot
Different people use different coding methods. I agree with you, but you aren't going about the best way to solve it.

Use her coding methods, as ridiculous as they may be (I have to do the same thing in my job all the time), then when you have a good grade in the class, try to reason with her. All you are doing right now is showing a lack of respect, which may be well-founded, but a lack of respect none the less, and she knows it. She won't listen to you, until she feels like you respect her.

This isn't just something you will have to do in school, but throughout life, especially if you want to hold down a job. People in authority can be ridiculous, but blatantly not doing what they say, won't help you in the slightest.

It's just difficult for me to dumb down my code when i know there is a better way to do it. IMO as long as the output requirements are met, and the program is efficient I should be fine. In my other classes such as Advanced PHP I have always gotten props for using advanced techniques.

At first I thought I was perhaps just being singled out, until I recently discovered she learned C# only 3-4 yrs ago and had difficulty as she has been used to procedural programming for along time. Through some of her responses to students questions I find her C# abilities lacking, such as…

STUDENT: when using a switch statement is there a way to pass through a case? I tried leaving out break; but it won't compile.
TEACHER: No it's not possible.

At first I just was thinking, really? No more information, just it's not possible? Not only is she incorrect but she gives up and doesn't bother to find a solution.

It is is possible by using goto case.

I have come to the conclusion that she just doesn't know some advanced techniques. And I believe this is why is she is nitpicking at me. After talking to a few students who had her for previous semesters, I was told that they too were nitpicked at excessively for using semi advanced code.

Although I understand everyone has a different level of understanding. They shouldn't be intimidated by someone who has more knowledge. They should instead be inspired to learn more.

From: Rich
Agreed. Your teacher might be a bit OTT on some things, but there's a reason why that extra hour was there.

If this was an isolated incident I would be inclined to agree. But it isn't, and the way things have been going even if I had fully completed the test I still would have a low grade. I did the major stuff such as validation calculation, output. I just skipped small things like access keys and such, I intended to go back and do them but I found my time waning.

I understand I should've been on time, after coming in late she asked me if i wanted to take the test now or at a later date. Understanding that deadlines will always be around, I opted to take it will the same deadline as the rest of the class.

I guess I will just have to use her coding methods. Although I don't like it. Thank you all for your input and opinions. It has helped me to make a level-headed decision. I was honestly thinking about dropping both C# and COBOL. I am not the only student who feels like this.

Be happy, you didn't run LanhaX at your school's network ;)

Also, in the name of God, why COBOL????

From: Markus
Be happy, you didn't run LanhaX at your school's network ;)

Also, in the name of God, why COBOL????

I have to ask, does LanhaX work on virtual machines? Meaning it affects other computers and not just my computer? For that to work, does the connection have to be bridged?

EDIT: Oh, and sorry for offtopic OP ;)

From: Frement
I have to ask, does LanhaX work on virtual machines? Meaning it affects other computers and not just my computer? For that to work, does the connection have to be bridged?

I have no clue to be honest, just try it. Best is to run it live of course but you may get a $1600 fine.
[/offtopic-excuse-us-please, now back to IRC]

From: Frement
I have to ask, does LanhaX work on virtual machines? Meaning it affects other computers and not just my computer? For that to work, does the connection have to be bridged?

EDIT: Oh, and sorry for offtopic OP ;)

I have not been able to make it work in my 15 minutes of trying

I tried bridged also, but doesn't work. And why would I get a fine? This is just for LAN right?

If you run it on a Public Lan, you're liable :)

From: Wizzup?
There's always someone in charge of the person in charge.

This is completely correct. A couple of a years ago I had to do this to get something into an over zelous first year science teacher.
If you feel so strongly about this, make an appointment with an administrator and make for damn sure you are prepared when you go in to see him or her. If you go in falling over yourself about how the class isnt fair blah blah blah, the attempt is not going to work. Prepare small code examples with commentary etc so when you present it to the administrator, he or she will understand. You must also have legitimate explanations for why you should be able to do what you're suggesting.

If you do this correctly, it will benefit you GREATLY.

Also wtf @ COBOL.

as a teacher earlier told me, "you learn as long as you got students" give your teacher a break man as long as shes trying.

School's about obedience, not intelligence. Follow her rules like you do in other classes and you'll be fine.

From: i luffs yeww
School's about obedience, not intelligence. Follow her rules like you do in other classes and you'll be fine.

if it was about intelligence I would have a 4.5 gpa ._.

From: tom99
as a teacher earlier told me, "you learn as long as you got students" give your teacher a break man as long as shes trying.

How will she learn if no one speaks their views?

Talk to the department adviser, if you are as good as you say in code someone needs to be aware of it. preferably talk to someone that also know code so that they can agree with you. but keep fighting for your grade.

My C# instructor is also a woman(It doesn't has anything to do with her skill per-say), not only that but I think I could code better than her in 8th grade(which wasn't much). This doesn't matter because she is the one giving the grades. Just do what your teacher says and maybe even suck up a little. Whatever gets you a good grade and reputation.

Or you could drop the class(if its college).

Change classes. Seems like the simple thing to do

Coding conventions are there for a reason, however, some people modify code to make it easier for them to read. While you could argue that she is wrong in her opinion of naming variables / constants, she is the one marking your work and the one to please. Your job is to demonstrate what you have been taught, including her conventions.

That being said, compilers don't care on the conventions so long as it is syntactically correct and produces no compile-time errors. As long as the functionality is there, how well you structure your code should be worth very little marks anyhow.

From: noidea
This is completely correct. A couple of a years ago I had to do this to get something into an over zelous first year science teacher.
If you feel so strongly about this, make an appointment with an administrator and make for damn sure you are prepared when you go in to see him or her. If you go in falling over yourself about how the class isnt fair blah blah blah, the attempt is not going to work. Prepare small code examples with commentary etc so when you present it to the administrator, he or she will understand. You must also have legitimate explanations for why you should be able to do what you're suggesting.

I would do something like this and approach her first. She says you can't trust code from online or other classes or whatever. Demonstarte to her in a friendly but confident way that your code is more efficient. Show her how it works, and possibly the research as to why it is better. Seriously, a teacher cannot deny facts, she probably just doesn't know your code well. If she does deny, then go to a higher up, simple as that. The key is to always be respectful and understanding while also being confident with what you have done.

From: Markus
I have no clue to be honest, just try it. Best is to run it live of course but you may get a $1600 fine.
[/offtopic-excuse-us-please, now back to IRC]

Actually, that only happens if you're dumb enough to tell everyone about it and also get caught using Cain and Abel on the school computers.

If you were programming in a commercial environment, you would be held to a programming style document. They're usually 10-30 pages long and define exactly how you should style your code.

It sucks, but sometimes you have to code according to another person's rules.

If this were an AP class, she has a responsibility to prepare you for the test at the end of the class. If you use improper syntax and fail the test, you would probably blame her for letting it slide during the course.

There is a time and place for being a stickler on seemingly minor issues. Perhaps that applies in this situation, perhaps not. There are coding test out there that are required for real world certification in different languages, and perhaps they would be sticklers too. To say that because this isn't a certification exam, syntax doesn't matter ignores the fact that classes are meant to prepare people for taking such exams in the future. To let inappropriate practices slide now when it matters less would not be doing you any favors for the future when it matters more.

From: Frement
And maybe even spank her? Just to make sure she understands.

I´d beat the crap out of her, kill her possible man, children and then hit her with a computer on her anus. I hate teacher who can´t do shit right!

From: Firemaking
I´d beat the crap out of her, kill her possible man, children and then hit her with a computer on her anus. I hate teacher who can´t do shit right!

nigga you crazy.

Watch the language guys.

It's ridiculous anyway how seriously the teacher probably takes herself, a .NET teacher, I'm sure she'll leave a mark in the history! Atleast it's C# and not VB I guess…

From: Smartzkid
If you were programming in a commercial environment, you would be held to a programming style document. They're usually 10-30 pages long and define exactly how you should style your code.

It sucks, but sometimes you have to code according to another person's rules.

I know, but there were no clear and defined rules. This teacher is somewhat weird, in my COBOL class. She has us read a chapter, then we come in and take a quiz on that chapter. We don't discuss it or anything, just immediate quiz. Then she has us looking at the overhead as she writes programs and lectures while we copy it down. I honestly don't feel like i'm learning it.

I'm not the only student having difficulty with this. I know for a fact that 4 of the other 11 students are having the same trouble as I am. I haven't talk to the other students so I don't know how they are doing.


I'm going to have to read online tutorials although she has forbade it. I'll probably try out OpenCOBOL see how it goes.

I know some of you have asked, why COBOL? well I can't be a programming guru unless I know alot of different programming languages. So after this my eyes are set on RPG, FORTRAN, LUA, and I'm unsure where to go from there. I could look for an Advanced Python or Advanced Ruby class. I don't know.

My goal as been to pass the classes. I've already learned a variety of different languages. I am just trying to get credit for them.

From: tarajunky
If this were an AP class, she has a responsibility to prepare you for the test at the end of the class. If you use improper syntax and fail the test, you would probably blame her for letting it slide during the course.

There is a time and place for being a stickler on seemingly minor issues. Perhaps that applies in this situation, perhaps not. There are coding test out there that are required for real world certification in different languages, and perhaps they would be sticklers too. To say that because this isn't a certification exam, syntax doesn't matter ignores the fact that classes are meant to prepare people for taking such exams in the future. To let inappropriate practices slide now when it matters less would not be doing you any favors for the future when it matters more.

Your absolutely right, there is a time and place. There is also a measure of importance. For example, are naming conventions so important that even though my program works and compiles correctly. That I should fail because my naming wasn't to her liking. Remember my scores were 40/100 and 65/100(something like that), those are failing grades. Also Keep in mind that everyone has their own coding practices. Her's might not be what a certification exam requires or favors. So it is important to instill the ability to adapt easily.

From: n3ss3s
It's ridiculous anyway how seriously the teacher probably takes herself, a .NET teacher, I'm sure she'll leave a mark in the history! Atleast it's C# and not VB I guess…

Ya I know right..crazy. Apparently she teaches VB as well. I learned those languages when I was like 13, i'm going on 22 now. So this stuff isn't completely new to me.

For her next C# assignment I'm gonna post up my source here if that's alright. Then when I get my grade i'll post that up too. This time I'm gonna follow her naming conventions and see if I do significantly better.

:x Being a programming "guru" doesn't mean you know a bunch of languages. I'd say knowing how programs work is much more important than learning such languages like Fortran and COBOL..

And just because you know a bunch of languages doesn't mean you're a guru. I think you're taking the wrong approach at this.

From: i luffs yeww
:x Being a programming "guru" doesn't mean you know a bunch of languages. I'd say knowing how programs work is much more important than learning such languages like Fortran and COBOL..

And just because you know a bunch of languages doesn't mean you're a guru. I think you're taking the wrong approach at this.

Well let me clarify, my goal is to always learn more..those are just the next languages I want to learn.

By being a guru I meant I want to learn everything I possibly can. Which I know will be a never ending quest. THAT'S WHAT'S SO EXCITING!!!!

Just thinking about it, I get fired up.

Even now i'm not limiting myself. As I take these courses, on my spare time I practice any number of languages so I don't get rusty as well as learning about different 3D engines such as Jmonkey Engine and OGRE. I'm also looking into Graphics libraries like OpenGL and Direct3D.

So when I said learning the languages. I meant so much more. I want to know each language intimately. There's a reason i'm targeting the older languages at the moment. I feel that it is important to understand programming history. Instead of just reading about that programming language that came around in 1959. I want to know it. So I'm going back and learning those.

:/ Still seems a bit silly to me. I'm the same way; I love learning as much as I can about everything I can. But something pretty important to me is that I make sure I actually focus on useful stuff.

C/C++ are old languages but are still in use (C more so than C++). Why not learn those? And just because you know old languages doesn't mean you understand the logic behind them. I dunno.

From: i luffs yeww
:/ Still seems a bit silly to me. I'm the same way; I love learning as much as I can about everything I can. But something pretty important to me is that I make sure I actually focus on useful stuff.

C/C++ are old languages but are still in use (C more so than C++). Why not learn those? And just because you know old languages doesn't mean you understand the logic behind them. I dunno.

Because I already have! LOL. Here's my programming history.

At 12 I started with Basic and TI-Basic for my TI-83 plus. Made math class much more fun and easier. Later that same year I got into HTML and Javascript. I became very proficient and I met up with another guy online that went under the alias MalAmen. Thoughout highschool I would write calculator programs to ease my mind during class and seminar. Later in 2005 we formed a mini programming group. It never really went anywhere but it inspired me. He was an Assembly programmer and would later teach me. We found some other people, and were working on our own compiler that would convert TI-Basic to ASM.

Our website was here http://dsmalamen.tripod.com/

we even started to write tutorials, since then mine has gone down. but MalAmen's intro to ASM is still up.

At 13 I focused on learning optimizing my TI-Basic because large games ran kind of slow and I learned a bit of Assembly. I began to improve on what I already knew, and learned about hardware.
At 14 I picked up on PHP and some PBasic for a robot my friend was making for a contest. PBasic is the version of Basic used by Parallax Microcontrollers. It was supposed to be a group project and he chose to do it alone and was falling behind. So I learned it and help him out while he was building.
15 yrs - I learned VB and C#, and I took a web design class in high school.
16 yrs - I was a big year because I learned Java, Pascal and some Python, mainly because my buddy whom I helped out on the robot suggested it to me. Later in the year I began to tinker around with C and C++.
17 yrs - I found this site, back then it was srl-forums and I learned PascalScript, well mainly just srl library. PascalScript just came to me as I had already learned PASCAL.
18 yrs - I began working on Web Applications and Database Languages like SQL. I learned Ruby and some PERL. As well as working at learning more about hardware and servicing computers. I was prepared to take my A+ Certification but some stuff came up and I had to use my $200 dollars elsewhere.

Since then I've been improving my programming abilities. I've focused on a wide range of things, and i'm always on the lookout for something new to me.

It's a good thing I wrote this out. Until now I hadn't thought to look for that old site, and now that I have I'm glad I did. Programming is my true passion. I love it. I could write programs all day and never tire.

I look back and I see my old heroes like Kerm Martian and when I first joined up here it was Wizzup. I remember his essence miner was the beast. It could run for weeks without messing up. Thanks guys, you just reminded me why I even started out doing this stuff.

It wasn't for the potential career or money. I was just a 12 yr old boy who wanted to learn as much as possible. K I'm going to sleep now. It's like midnight and tomorrow is a new day.

I'm in the same boat, except I never learned BASIC (kinda.. I kinda read through it and do some simple stuff but I've never like.. spent time learning) or PHP.

But until recently I've really never got into the logic behind programming and the kernel and hardware and all that. I also found this site when I was 12, not 17 (I'm 17 now). :p I think you're doing fine, probably, but there's nothing really saying you get the logic. Knowing the syntax is good, as well as libraries, but it's not enough to just know that in the industry, really. If you get the logic, though, syntax and libraries don't really factor in much, in my small amount of experience.

I dunno. :p I would like to talk to you sometime though. :)

Although your goal is to learn as much as you can, if you're 22 and want a job that has to do with programming, there's no use learning languages like COBOL or Fortran, unless you want to travel back in time through a mighty stargate to make use of your skills.

As I have previously said, change classes.

Been trying to stay out of this but just can't hold my tongue anymore. From her point of view you are coming across as an immature little jerk who thinks he is too good to follow the rules or even bother to show up for class. She is not going to do you any favors by giving you any more points than she absolutely has to.

If you ever want to work in this field you will at some point be forced to follow coding standards that you personally disagree with/think are stupid. Depending on where you are those standards may be vague and undefined but heaven help you if you violate them.

Knowing how to code and being able to do it decently are two separate things. I used to work with a guy who was absolutely brilliant, but his coding style sucked. I mean really sucked. Nobody else could understand his code because it was so bad. Making it work is only part of the equation. Making your code clean and understandable is just as important. Your teacher is trying to teach you that but you don't seem to be getting the message.

As for her skills possibly not being up to snuff: no different than a lot of the managers you wind up working for. Skills may not be be the great, although they think they are. Or they know it and are insecure because of it. Welcome to the real world bucky. Learn to "manage your manager" or in this case your teacher. Otherwise you are going to have a miserable frustrating career.

If you want to pass this class then man up and follow her standards, actually show up for class, and start acting like you actually give a damn. The results will astound you.

From: Bixby Sayz
Been trying to stay out of this but just can't hold my tongue anymore. From her point of view you are coming across as an immature little jerk who thinks he is too good to follow the rules or even bother to show up for class. She is not going to do you any favors by giving you any more points than she absolutely has to.

If you ever want to work in this field you will at some point be forced to follow coding standards that you personally disagree with/think are stupid. Depending on where you are those standards may be vague and undefined but heaven help you if you violate them.

Knowing how to code and being able to do it decently are two separate things. I used to work with a guy who was absolutely brilliant, but his coding style sucked. I mean really sucked. Nobody else could understand his code because it was so bad. Making it work is only part of the equation. Making your code clean and understandable is just as important. Your teacher is trying to teach you that but you don't seem to be getting the message.

As for her skills possibly not being up to snuff: no different than a lot of the managers you wind up working for. Skills may not be be the great, although they think they are. Or they know it and are insecure because of it. Welcome to the real world bucky. Learn to "manage your manager" or in this case your teacher. Otherwise you are going to have a miserable frustrating career.

If you want to pass this class then man up and follow her standards, actually show up for class, and start acting like you actually give a damn. The results will astound you.

+1

And Mistagnerd, it's not a good idea to post "conclusions" of someone on a public forum that you wouldn't say to a person's face. In the space of a few posts, you're close to blitzing your chances of ever getting work from a manager who has a different (and often desired) opinion from yours.

Like I have said two times already, CHANGE CLASSES, PROBLEM SOLVED

From: cycrosism
Like I have said two times already, CHANGE CLASSES, PROBLEM SOLVED

PROBLEM NOT SOLVED.

You can't just change jobs or change parents or friends or roommates etc. whenever you disagree with them, bro. Stupid idea to tell someone to do that with a teacher, which is essentially a manager in the real world.

come at me bro.

From: i luffs yeww
PROBLEM NOT SOLVED.

You can't just change jobs or change parents or friends or roommates etc. whenever you disagree with them, bro. Stupid idea to tell someone to do that with a teacher, which is essentially a manager in the real world.

come at me bro.

We are not talking about family members, or an occupation, we are talking about classes in a school. And it is easy to change a class. Please stop comparing changing classes with other pointless things such as changing jobs. They are 2 completely seperate things

From: cycrosism
We are not talking about family members, or an occupation, we are talking about classes in a school. And it is easy to change a class. Please stop comparing changing classes with other pointless things such as changing jobs. They are 2 completely seperate things

The majority of computing school projects are aimed towards a made-up client, the teacher often fulfilling the role. This client gives you the brief on what they want produced depending on their requirements. I believe luff is trying to say that in the real world, you can't just nit pick at what your client (the manager) wants, they are the one paying you and how much depends on how well you have met their needs. It's a character building skill knowing when to just accept things that you don't think are necessarily correct, crucial when your job can be on the line.

As someone said, school is about setting you up for the real world. It is not all about intelligence, thus why these projects and these teachers are set up the way they are.