SRL Archive - Bot Information and Spottings

I was following a jagex-forum rant about Bots, and a Jagex Mod has this to say:
Jagex has some tricks up their sleeve


Mod Jon H
Jagex Mod


25-Mar-2011 00:44:21
"botter have each like hundreds of accounts if one gets banned theyl just make a new one"

This is actually a very good point. A better longer-term strategy would be for us to change the game so that the bots won't work any more - I can't comment in any detail about this but I believe we do have some tricks up our sleeve in the near future that should help the situation a great deal.

-JH



Not sure if it significant, but interesting read. I dont think it will affect us color maniacs.

A better longer-term strategy would be for us to change the game so that the bots won't work any more

Wtf? Lmao….obvious?!

Could this have something to do with how Ben said it would be very easy for Jagex to detect SMART if they wanted to? And, if SMART is detectable, other client capturing bots are probably too, so that leaves good old browser botting? I bet there's a way around it, though ;)

Maybe moving it away from a java client? If they did that, 99% of botting could be stopped.

I think this is just a bluff.

Jagex has said a lot lately, but done nothing.

E: If Jagex really wanted to damage botting they could simply get rid of the fixed screen mode. That'd pause botting for a little while at least. Combine that with SMART client detection and you really have a slap-in-the-face to a lot of botters.

Or maybe they'd decide to change the hooks twice a day. Many things they could do. Not many things they do, however. Seems to me they need us.

Whatever they do, I don't see them stopping color bots.

Yeah what happened to Jagex's so called "Mass Ban"? That never happened, and I do not think there will be one any time soon

From: WT-Fakawi
Or maybe they'd decide to change the hooks twice a day. Many things they could do. Not many things they do, however. Seems to me they need us.

Changing hooks twice a day seems unlikely as that would require an update of the client for each change of hooks. Of course RS is going to look different without bots (number of players, market prices, etc.), but I don't think they're not going to try to stop the bots. I don't think they think they need us.

I had a pretty crazy theory… It was that when free trade was reinstated, the staff, that actually cared about the game more than just from making profit, just gave up and went on to developing other things, maybe even other Jagex games. If you remember at the beginning of the ordeal, alot of veteran staff members were strongly against it, they knew the outcome. Therefore it was the 'newer' staff that was left to handle macro detection, and obviously their focus was on profit rather than fighting the bots.

Again, this is just a theory I had, nothing is fact. ;)

Java bots using hijacked clients are the ones in danger here, using color with the original client will continue to survive and be effective no matter what ;)

Lol, they've talked about this a million years. Always "just about to do something" but they never do.

From: WT-Fakawi
Or maybe they'd decide to change the hooks twice a day. Many things they could do. Not many things they do, however. Seems to me they need us.

This is what I was thinking, use some sort of system that dynamically changes the hooks at semi-random intervals during the day. GG RSBot.

Color, however, will be very hard to kill :f:

From: Tlachtli
This is what I was thinking, use some sort of system that dynamically changes the hooks at semi-random intervals during the day. GG RSBot.

Color, however, will be very hard to kill :f:

Too bad it won't happen. Even if it does, an automatic hooks uploader could be developed in under half an hour if not heavily multitasking (even if heavy, its still possible to do it in half an hour). Failsafes could be added later on. As of last week, Nader checks every 5 minutes for an RS update. Changing hooks frequently requires updating the client, which would be just as annoying to normal players as bots.
There, the automatic hooks updating defeated. If Jagex were to implement it, they'd probably do it so if you're already running the bot, you won't have to reload the game.

I don't think at all that SRL is their target, look at the majority of the bots out there. SRL makes up a very smart percentage of them and we're unique because of color. We are the ONLY ones who use it. Jagex won't intentionally target us when they have much bigger fish to fry.

This is probably directed to the bots who aren't able to use the actual client. They can never stop us.

Jagex are also forgetting that users/bots have the ability to modify Java, so their detection methods of a bot client won't work.

Example with making SMART undetectable:

1. Modify Java so that the client can't see SMART's running threads.
2. Mofiy Java so that when the client attempts to get the amount of memory being used, it returns the amount of memory being used by only the client.
3. Modify Java so that the client can't reflect any changes which have been made.
4. Win

I'm personally waiting to see Jagex's next bot detection system.

From: WT-Fakawi
Seems to me they need us.

^ This. - really, they could have done so much to stop bots already… but their rs economy would utterly suffer.

@ TRiLeZ - so, basically privatize and protect everything? You idea is to make it run in incognito mode, amiright?

There are already situations where objects do not have unique ID's, such as in various randoms.

What if they assigned every object the same hook ID, and then had some sort of randomization occur upon loading the client so that every client load would have unique values for the entire game?

I don't know much about the client, but if something like that could be done it would be very painful for all the java bots.

From: tarajunky
There are already situations where objects do not have unique ID's, such as in various randoms.

What if they assigned every object the same hook ID, and then had some sort of randomization occur upon loading the client so that every client load would have unique values for the entire game?

I don't know much about the client, but if something like that could be done it would be very painful for all the java bots.

Could you be more specific about the particular objects or random events you're talking about? I think it's likely that bot developers simply don't know enough about the client or cache to be able to handle the usage of a variety of different objects (or npcs, or whatever else is used) in a random event.

I'm not sure what you mean by assigning every object the same "hook ID". While it's possible Jagex could "randomize" id numbers for different things each time the game is updated, I can't imagine doing so would be worth more than the trouble it would take to accomplish what you're suggesting. Having to shuffle things around in the cache and repack it each time the game updates (meaning it has to be streamed to every player again) seems like a waste of time and effort.

From: anonymity
@ TRiLeZ - so, basically privatize and protect everything? You idea is to make it run in incognito mode, amiright?

Basically.

Is it possible for us to make smart look like firefox or chrome? so jagex would see us on a browser instead of "some client"

Oh Tara, nooo! Then they'll ALL flock here! :eek:

What if they were to do a day/night system?

Throughout the day the client goes from day to night and back, maybe 3-4 times per day. That would stop color botting - at least for awhile - and possibly stop reflection botting if they made items change ID's with the change in color.

Just logged on real quick to say that I just got a direct reply from Jon H about my post (first post on page seven, I'm L4D). :D

Pretty sweet.

From: i luffs yeww
Just logged on real quick to say that I just got a direct reply from Jon H about my post (first post on page seven, I'm L4D). :D

Pretty sweet.

BHAHAHAHAA!!!!! LOL!!! troll! lmaoo at botting is a good thing I bet u he's gunna put a ban on u even though he said he wont.. probably doing a background check on that account -__-

Im one of the pages before urs.. ;)
Let botters do their thing.

From: i luffs yeww
Just logged on real quick to say that I just got a direct reply from Jon H about my post (first post on page seven, I'm L4D). :D

Pretty sweet.

OOps. 0_o, better not post stuff like that over there. Lucky you, you got a quick and pretty decent reply.

From: grats
Is it possible for us to make smart look like firefox or chrome? so jagex would see us on a browser instead of "some client"

They cant see smart at all if you clear cookies and run unsigned.

Unsigned always takes more than 3 mins for me to load so it always cancels it.

well, if you cant run unsigned and your worried about that jagex woud ban you if detect the smart window, you could always change title to notepad or something like that =p

Since the update that got rid of trade and pking, player count has dropped signifcantly meaning a loss of profit for Jagex….they need us bots to purchase membership for our mains and bots to keep their revenue up….until at least legit player count increases to their desired amount.

From: grats
Is it possible for us to make smart look like firefox or chrome? so jagex would see us on a browser instead of "some client"

It's already disguised as Firefox, but JaGeX can just search for SMART.Client or something (iirc)

I was referring to Mordaut, where the items don't have any distinguishing information to help you solve it. Or Prison Pete where the animals don't have different id's. At least that's my understanding from what others have discussed.

Since Jagex already puts a file onto your computer when you load the client, why couldn't they send an encrypted key into the file, which would then be used to generate a unique ID set for all the items each time the client loads? Kind of like a decoder ring. Instead of ABC it would be DEF. But like I said I don't know much about the inner workings of the client or reflection, so I could be totally wrong.

From: tarajunky
I was referring to Mordaut, where the items don't have any distinguishing information to help you solve it. Or Prison Pete where the animals don't have different id's. At least that's my understanding from what others have discussed.

Since Jagex already puts a file onto your computer when you load the client, why couldn't they send an encrypted key into the file, which would then be used to generate a unique ID set for all the items each time the client loads? Kind of like a decoder ring. Instead of ABC it would be DEF. But like I said I don't know much about the inner workings of the client or reflection, so I could be totally wrong.

Like I mentioned in my last post, I think we simply need to look more into how the client distinguishes between these similar items and npcs. The client needs to know how to render different ones, so we can access that information as well, provided we know where in the client it is. One of the few remaining poorly understood things in the client is the list of settings that is used for preferences, interface scripts, references to npcs, items, objects, etc. that are similar to ones it is using (presumably to render the correct model or accomplish similar tasks), and more. Exploring and documenting more of the information contained within it would probably be very helpful.

The client doesn't know which item is which. It knows how to load information from the cache and display that information on the screen, but it doesn't make decisions on the ids or properties of each thing it loads. Those are fixed by the time the server streams the cache to the client. Changing the cache, like I mentioned in my last post, would probably be more trouble than it would be worth.

From: Method
Taking out text to lessen the scroll amount required! Read his post though; good information.

I agree wholeheartedly with Method. Something very important people seem to forget is that if there's a way to do something legitimately, there is always a way to do it illegitimately. Be that through client understanding, color improvements, or anything in between, there is a way. Something somewhere provides those IDs. It's just a matter of finding them. And for all we know it could be a really shitty RNG with a very small period. It's not like they have an infinite amount of IDs to use for randoms.

From: BKNYKavkaz
Since the update that got rid of trade and pking, player count has dropped signifcantly meaning a loss of profit for Jagex

And then it started going back up after they brought free trade and pking back, I don't see your point.

From: nielsie95
Could this have something to do with how Ben said it would be very easy for Jagex to detect SMART if they wanted to? And, if SMART is detectable, other client capturing bots are probably too, so that leaves good old browser botting? I bet there's a way around it, though ;)

VMs ? lol, I think SRL has been safe for a very long time. :)

~RM

From: Echo_
And then it started going back up after they brought free trade and pking back, I don't see your point.

I think he means Jagex realizes the mistake of taking out these two features, as they hurt the overall income when the players started quitting. And now that they're returned, their profit has gone back up which is really all they're after. He's just giving insight on why they were brought back.

srsly. im almost willing to bet they own 20% of the bots sites and make more money sellin thier own bots lol.

That would be very smart on their part, but I don't think they do… So far they've proven they aren't that smart.

From: chitin
srsly. im almost willing to bet they own 20% of the bots sites and make more money sellin thier own bots lol.

No. There is always a way to know who owns what. Jagex does not own any bot sites.

Haha, why would they ever want to sell their own bots? If they really wanted money, they could start their own RWT shop…

Exactly, ^
I'm still waiting for them to do that. For them to just open a webshop where they sell in-game stuff that pops right in your bank. Additional stuff like extra bank space, etc.

Of course gold websites could lower their prices for leverage and still prevail, but I guess many people will take the legal (maybe a little more expensive) way over the illegal one. Unless they make it like $0.10/mil. jizzz

"Pro membership"

From: i luffs yeww
Jagex does not own any bot sites.

*Cough* www.rsbot.org *Cough*

I think what he meant is:

From: i luffs yeww
Jagex does not operate any bot sites.

They will NEVER stop a color clicker.

To stop 99% of java botting all they need to do is load reflective classes at runtime, and have it return the result to the server. It can easily find SMART/RSBot etc.
This can be worked around - but Jagex could make it quite difficult for us, quite easily.
Really don't see why they haven't….

From: Iamadam
To stop 99% of java botting all they need to do is load reflective classes at runtime, and have it return the result to the server. It can easily find SMART/RSBot etc.
This can be worked around - but Jagex could make it quite difficult for us, quite easily.
Really don't see why they haven't….

We could still just use color scripts on the actual client.

From: Narcle
Whatever they do, I don't see them stopping color bots.

What if they make it all trippy-acidy?

Is it possible of Jagex to break reflection permanently?

From: Coh3n
Is it possible of Jagex to break reflection permanently?

They could generate an unique client for each of us, that would have random hooks, random id's? That would do it, but it takes resources too.

Hey stop giving them ideas!

Haha. Not sure if they are planning on implementing anything like this anytime soon.

From: Frement
They could generate an unique client for each of us, that would have random hooks, random id's? That would do it, but it takes resources too.

I personally would love to see the day Reflection/Java Bots die. :rolleyes: (no offense to anyone who's spend hours developing Reflection).

From: Frement
They could generate an unique client for each of us, that would have random hooks, random id's? That would do it, but it takes resources too.

Generating a "unique client" for every player wouldn't prohibit the use of reflection techniques, and the client would have to know how to interpret the "random ids" anyway. Both of those ideas seem to me to be highly unfeasible.

Color bots will soon strike back! Also soon. Fully non colored and non reflection bots will lives too :P

Full Color is awesome!! But a full color bot could easily be stopped by a captcha, if Jagex made one pop up every few hours we'd be f'd.

I dont think reflection would be able to solve a captcha either due to the fact that it would only show up as an image in the client.

Captcha would be impossible to do with bots-that's the point of it.

Nothing will ever stop botting, even if they did something right now to stop what we got then someone will make a new way of doing things. Jagex only want money so I don't think they want to mass ban at all as it would be a massive profit, gone.

I like flights theory I read on the first page I think.

From: litoris
Captcha would be impossible to do with bots-that's the point of it.

Ever heard about SleepWalker?

From: litoris
Captcha would be impossible to do with bots-that's the point of it.

Wrong. Simple layered neural network will solve any captcha in no time.

love how this ended up.
come at me about the grave dig

From: jakeyboy29
love how this ended up.
come at me about the grave dig

It was a good grave dig, I enjoyed this post:

From: Coh3n
I personally would love to see the day Reflection/Java Bots die. :rolleyes: (no offense to anyone who's spend hours developing Reflection).

From: grats
It was a good grave dig, I enjoyed this post:

Also support it, and that post. Kind of funny reading through this thread again.

From: Coh3n
I personally would love to see the day Reflection/Java Bots die. :rolleyes: (no offense to anyone who's spend hours developing Reflection).

From: Coh3n
Is it possible of Jagex to break reflection permanently?

Omg this made me laugh , well how does it feel Coh3n :)

coh3n the jagex spy!

Haha lol its funny reading the posts and comments Now after the update happened.

Coh3n's wish became true :P

So our little philosophy ended up to be the truth, gha! We where looking in our crystal bowl and foreseeing the future, to the detail.

GJ!

From: Method
Generating a "unique client" for every player wouldn't prohibit the use of reflection techniques, and the client would have to know how to interpret the "random ids" anyway. Both of those ideas seem to me to be highly unfeasible.

Too bad they turned out not to be unfeasible ;)

Oh WOW. Read the first page. This community predicted what happened. ClusterFlutter.

From: Iamadam
Maybe moving it away from a java client? If they did that, 99% of botting could be stopped.

jagex= Java Gaming Experts.. they will never take away java..

From: Method
Generating a "unique client" for every player wouldn't prohibit the use of reflection techniques, and the client would have to know how to interpret the "random ids" anyway. Both of those ideas seem to me to be highly unfeasible.

Hate to bump up a old thread, but the way this played out has me laughing. +1 Kudo's from Method for predicting the future.

i think thay can easily detect smart they gave you some googles when you use google chrome i think is the same if you use smart hat do you think?

I think its just something to keep the paying customers happy so they think they are doing something.

I actually predicted a similar idea 2 months before anyone else…..

http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65083

From: Markus
Too bad they turned out not to be unfeasible ;)

From: PhaseCode
Hate to bump up a old thread, but the way this played out has me laughing. +1 Kudo's from Method for predicting the future.

The clients aren't unique per-player (or even per IP address), and the information within the cache has remained consistent. Looks like neither of these things came true.

No! Don't make us go back to the dark days of browser botting! Have mercy jagex! Lol. :)

oww I think that if we have to use again browser I will have to bot with vmware or something like this

Holy gravedigg…

Grave digging = Not cool :cartman:

/facepalm I didnt realize until the 3rd page that this was old.. Stop with the gravedigging >:(

fagex needs us :) plain and simple, but itll be good if they stoped inject for awhile again ^.^

A better longer-term strategy would be for us to change the game so that the bots won't work any more

seems legit