SRL Archive - News and General

Not sure where to post this, so I'll put it here. Mods feel free to move this…

I took a break from srl for a while and in that time Simba arrived on the scene. I've been using it since and I like it. I really love the convenience of the msi scripts, although they could be better.

But now that I'm getting back into messing around with writing scripts and exploring whats new/changed in the includes I'm starting to find I am really missing features of SCAR that just aren't there in Simba.

Some of these are a huge deal to me. For example the ability run a script and step through it. That is HUGE absolutely freaking HUGE for debugging.

A Minor? irritant is the lack of a separate Report window. It is handy to display a constantly updated summary on whats going on with the script in the report window, and leave the nitty-gritty details in the debug window.

And the list goes on. I'm really not seeing how Simba is that much of an improvement over SCAR. Am I missing something? How is taking away features an improvement?

So I'm thinking of ditching Simba…At least for writing scripts.

I've never, ever in my scripting carreer used stepping in SCAR. I agree that it could be useful, but I never used it - ever.

Report window? Not too useful either - it's just another debug window. I suppose it's useful if you want a constant report on what's happening…

I'd like to know how the lists goes on - because I think your statement of throwing away features is quite an overstatement.

Consider this, perhaps the list will help you understand:

• Running multiple scripts at once.
• The ability to use multiple clients simultaneously; that is, without swapping context all the time.
• The ability to freeze the Runescape window into memory.
• The ability to perform direct memory access on SMART and others.
• Near-crossplatform.
• A useful function list.
• Sane plugin loading.
• Extension support.
• Compilation speed.
• Working and fast OCR?
• Settings support?
• FindDTMs, FindBitmaps, two DTM algorithms? Sane DTM implementation?
• Proper documentation. http://docs.villavu.com/simba/
• Active support and development.
• Open Source + Promising future (multiple people working on it, lots of planned features, backed by other communities such as moparisthebest)
• Not giving random access violations? Crashing randomly?

And the list goes on. To sum it up: Yeah. Stepping might be useful. But you're the first to request it, goes to show it apparently isn't that important.

People actually used that step debugging crap?

I just put in writelns were some code may not work proper.

There was stepping in scar?

From: Capricorn
People actually used that step debugging crap?

I just put in writelns were some code may not work proper.

This. Dude, the reasons you posted are no reason to cease using Simba? Like wtf? And also, as it is open source you can create code to do this and then have them pull from you :p. Like yeah dude, do some work if you want that or at least post a request.

To make this interesting, if I may, I'm going to intervene in the this thread for a brief moment.

Like wizzup, I have never used the stepping tools. Probably out of lack of necessity I never did even bother to learn what they were for or how to use them.

The report window is also, useful, but not essential. Not a big deal really

Yes throwing away features is an overstatement.

However, I'd like to make the information in this thread accurate.

Both SCAR and simba can run multiple scripts fine.
Both SCAR and simba can use multiple clients simultaneously, please elaborate what you mean by swapping context.
What does freezing the runescape into memory mean? and what is it useful for?
SCAR can also directly access the memory in SMART, can it not?
Cross plat form is great, once its done. But things like WINE have exists for some time.
SCAR also has a function list
SCAR's plugin system works differently, but more reliably. And is much more linear due to its nature. I fail to see a real advantage either way.
Extension support is a very useful unique thing about simba, however, all it accomplishes currently is user friendless for script users. It does not add functionality or advantages. I do think this is a very cool thing and hopefully SCAR will have extensions in the near future.
Compilation speed is only 50% faster in simba than SCAR 3.25 beta and really has no purpose or advantage. SCAR luna has x2 compilation speed of simba and SCAR 4 is to me more than that, but none of that really even matters?
SCAR's OCR is maybe about 5% slower, but it much more reliable from personal experience. Simba is actually missing a few OCR/text functions like IsTextInArea that have caused things like GetXP to malfunction.
Settings support is something both SCAR and simba have a lot of, older SCAR's have the most, SCAR 3.25 beta doesn't have as many as older SCAR's but just as much as simba for sure.
Simba has 1 single more DTM rotated function which really serves no purpose because its start to end angle, dtm alternating is the important one which both have, a function that simba didn't have initially.
Documentation is useful for developers, but isn't exactly an advantage.
Both SCAR and simba have active development, contrary to belief Freddy is a pretty active guy that gets a lot done on his own and does a really good job by the time he finishes a project. Open source isn't something that SCAR has, but that doesn't make the program itself run any better or worse, its just a different means of a program supporting itself.
SCAR, especially, newer SCARs do not give random access violations, nor does it crash randomly. If anything the latest simba and SCAR compared to eachother, SCAR is much more stable. I could elaborate on this but the fact of the matter is simba is still a growing product that has a lot of growing problems that still need to be worked out, I don't see any point in denying this.

Unfortunately, this thread is far from the first request.

I use SCAR and simba on a daily basis and often compare many aspects of them. Many of the people that criticize SCAR are almost always unknowing of the current state it is in which leads to inaccurate assumed misinformation.

But don't be confused, I really did wish we had a perfect program, whether what it be called. But there isn't one at the moment.

Simba is great, and I hope it succeeds, but more than often people inaccurately compare it to SCAR or make statements that aren't true or only give you one side of the story, in short, there are slight exaggerations to say the least.

Both of these programs have a bright future.

If you want to ditch simba, I don't see why you need to make a thread about, just do it. No one is forcing you to do anything. I encourage everyone to look into the reality of the situation and get their own perception of it. That means knowing both sides of the story well.

From: IceFire908
To make this interesting, if I may, I'm going to intervene in the this thread for a brief moment.

Like wizzup, I have never used the stepping tools. Probably out of lack of necessity I never did even bother to learn what they were for or how to use them.

The report window is also, useful, but not essential. Not a big deal really

Yes throwing away features is an overstatement.

However, I'd like to make the information in this thread accurate.

Both SCAR and simba can run multiple scripts fine.
Both SCAR and simba can use multiple clients simultaneously, please elaborate what you mean by swapping context.
What does freezing the runescape into memory mean? and what is it useful for?
SCAR can also directly access the memory in SMART, can it not?
Cross plat form is great, once its done. But things like WINE have exists for some time.
SCAR also has a function list
SCAR's plugin system works differently, but more reliably. And is much more linear due to its nature. I fail to see a real advantage either way.
Extension support is a very useful unique thing about simba, however, all it accomplishes currently is user friendless for script users. It does not add functionality or advantages. I do think this is a very cool thing and hopefully SCAR will have extensions in the near future.
Compilation speed is only 50% faster in simba than SCAR 3.25 beta and really has no purpose or advantage. SCAR luna has x2 compilation speed of simba and SCAR 4 is to me more than that, but none of that really even matters?
SCAR's OCR is maybe about 5% slower, but it much more reliable from personal experience. Simba is actually missing a few OCR/text functions like IsTextInArea that have caused things like GetXP to malfunction.
Settings support is something both SCAR and simba have a lot of, older SCAR's have the most, SCAR 3.25 beta doesn't have as many as older SCAR's but just as much as simba for sure.
Simba has 1 single more DTM rotated function which really serves no purpose because its start to end angle, dtm alternating is the important one which both have, a function that simba didn't have initially.
Documentation is useful for developers, but isn't exactly an advantage.
Both SCAR and simba have active development, contrary to belief Freddy is a pretty active guy that gets a lot done on his own and does a really good job by the time he finishes a project. Open source isn't something that SCAR has, but that doesn't make the program itself run any better or worse, its just a different means of a program supporting itself.
SCAR, especially, newer SCARs do not give random access violations, nor does it crash randomly. If anything the latest simba and SCAR compared to eachother, SCAR is much more stable. I could elaborate on this but the fact of the matter is simba is still a growing product that has a lot of growing problems that still need to be worked out, I don't see any point in denying this.

Unfortunately, this thread is far from the first request.

I use SCAR and simba on a daily basis and often compare many aspects of them. Many of the people that criticize SCAR are almost always unknowing of the current state it is in which leads to inaccurate assumed misinformation.

But don't be confused, I really did wish we had a perfect program, whether what it be called. But there isn't one at the moment.

Simba is great, and I hope it succeeds, but more than often people inaccurately compare it to SCAR or make statements that are true or only give you one side of the story, in short, there are slight exaggerations to say the least.

If you want to ditch simba, I don't see why you need to make a thread about, just do it. No one is forcing you to do anything. I encourage everyone to look into the reality of the situation and get their own perception of it. That means knowing both sides of the story well.

I think you largely misinterpreted my list. I don't want to argue about some points because it'll only turn into a flamewar; but I'll just clean up the misinterpretations. :)

Multiple scripts from one Simba instance. Swapping context -> SetTargetBitmap without keeping other clients in memory. Freeze; Unfreeze; look them up in the documentation. SCAR does not read directly from SMARTs memory. SCAR function list cannot (iirc) search; nor is it ordered in categories.
E: Also, I meant scripting documentation; not documentation for Simba developers. But for scripters.

"SCAR's plugin system works differently, but more reliably." What? More reliable? I doubt they differ in reliability. When I said that it was sane I meant that you have to tell Simba to load a plugin, rather than loading it automatically; although I believe SCAR "Stable beta" has picked this up now too. SCAR's OCR was quite a lot slower the last time I tested it. (Months ago)

About not randomly crashing anymore - I've become very skeptical about this; especially since SCAR isn't really tested as much as it was before Simba I'm not sure if you could state this without doubt.

Most of your other points are not really debatable (IMO!), because I don't see any real active development for SCAR, so saying it will come soon doesn't mean it's actually coming soon. Don't really want to argue about this either…

Anyway, I'm sure we generally agree and I'm not going to argue on this any further since I want to continue your sane attitude and not start a X vs Y war.

Just checked out the latest SCAR, at least Freddy could pull of something like a "Script manager", looks pretty neat (the include manager).

Further more I have to say that I really like the Code tools Simba has (like ctlr + click).

From: Wizzup?
I think you largely misinterpreted my list.

Multiple scripts from one Simba instance. Swapping context -> SetTargetBitmap without keeping other clients in memory. Freeze; Unfreeze; look them up in the documentation. SCAR does not read directly from SMARTs memory. SCAR function list cannot (iirc) search; nor is it ordered in categories.

"SCAR's plugin system works differently, but more reliably." What? More reliable? When I said that it was same I meant that you have to tell Simba to load a plugin, rather than loading it automatically; although I believe SCAR "Stable beta" has picked this up now too. SCAR's OCR is quite a lot slower the last time I tested it.

Most of your other points are moot (IMO!), because I don't see any real active development for SCAR.

Anyway, I'm sure we generally agree and I'm not going to argue on this any further since I want to continue your sane attitude and not start a X vs Y war.

I have found that it is best, whether simba or SCAR, for practically reasons, not to run more than one script per an instance of the application. It works best when running multiple simba(s) or SCAR(s) installed in different locations, unfortunately I do not know the reasonings for these but it is what it is. Tabbed script running is not in SCAR, and will be in the future. It is a cool feature, but not exactly praticaly and rarely useful.

I'm still not sure what the unfreezing and freezing is or what is useful for. An explanation or direct link to documentation may uncloud my confusion. I do understand now what you mean by SMART memory access, but I do not understand what it is useful for.

Nope, SCAR still automatically loads all functions in its plugin folder and its includes/SRL/place inside plugins folder, and you still have to restart SCAR for the changes to take place. This, to me, makes it more linear, and therefore less confusing. As reliable, yes, I often find myself viewing unknown identifiers when running simba that should be exported from plugins. I am sure its just a temporary hiccup, but the problem is still there whether I want it to be or not.

SCAR's OCR works differently so the speeds are not the same. But the speed is literally negligible any way you look at it, especially if you consider its great ease of use and reliability.

My points are not moot, and that really has nothing to do with the activity as SCAR. And anyways, SCAR is active. The (visible) prerelease repository has received quite many useful revisions on a weekly basis much like simba. Also progress on future SCARs has been long since underway (invisible).

It's really not an argument unless you take it as one.

Obviously my entire view on simba is not 100% accurate, as yours is not a 100% accurate on SCAR. Hopefully, through constructive discussions we can bridge that gap.

Wouldn't you agree?

I agree with most points. :)

Wow did that start a shitstorm.

I was not I repeat not dissing Simba. I was simply wondering how others felt about how some features they were used to using are not carried over into Simba.

It would be nice to occasionally be able to ask an opinion on here without being flamed to death.

As for the stepping, I got used to using that doing development work in Delphi\C++ Builder. Insanely useful to step through code watching variables change, seeing what effects each line of code has, and so on. Quite often you discover your code isn't quite as clever/good as you thought it was.

Sounds like I am also the only one that likes seeing the state of my army in a nice summary in the report window while the activity of the current player is detailed in the debug window. Who knew? Ya didn't have to bite my head off for it.

From: Bixby Sayz
Wow did that start a shitstorm.

I was not I repeat not dissing Simba. I was simply wondering how others felt about how some features they were used to using are not carried over into Simba.

It would be nice to occasionally be able to ask an opinion on here without being flamed to death.

As for the stepping, I got used to using that doing development work in Delphi\C++ Builder. Insanely useful to step through code watching variables change, seeing what effects each line of code has, and so on. Quite often you discover your code isn't quite as clever/good as you thought it was.

Sounds like I am also the only one that likes seeing the state of my army in a nice summary in the report window while the activity of the current player is detailed in the debug window. Who knew? Ya didn't have to bite my head off for it.

Nobody really flamed you, just most people find stepping not really useful.

You're not the only one who wants a report box.

There is no shitstorm here.

No one thinks you were dissing simba.

Don't worry, there is no flaming in this thread.

I, and others, haven't used stepping through code, so we are unaware of the benefits they hold.

I like seeing summaries in the report window too.

I don't think their intention was to bite your head off or flame you in any fashion, there are just some string opinions on scar and simba. I am sorry if it feel like you have been attacked but I know that it was not their intention.

I hope you still feel to voice your opinion.


As for me, I do like the report box option, even if it's hidden by default and people who like it can enable it. A scripter can easily write their own WritelnEx or something of the sort where the user and set a boolean constant to print in a report box if they have it enabled or in the debug like the rest? I think that seems like a fair compromise? :)

Solution: Why don't we just add those features to Simba? Report box would be _very_ easy. Not sure about stepping, but shouldn't be too hard.

Personally I'd kinda like a simpler way for Simba to enable API calls as it seems like enabling these on Simba causes conflicts when it loads on start up. (E: loading fonts, ect…).

Thanks to someone, and I apologize but I forget who, I learned how to enable API calls which successfully ran my silent mouse/keys, but I don't think it's worth the price of disabling 80% of the Simba load-up procedure?

Over all I find Simba greatly organized and easy to use and because of the active development, and on that note I can personally say I'll be staying with Simba over Scar any day!

P.S. I would love the "Form editor" from Scar to be implanted in Simba and also an easier summary of creating Forms/Tforms, that'd be just wonderful. :)

I couldn't see myself using breakpoints/stepping while writing scripts, but a watch window would be useful.

I'd say SCAR has a more refined interface. Along those same lines, is it just me, or is Simba's update window really ugly?

Moot point anyway as Reflection doesn't seem to work with SCAR anymore. Man I've been gone too long.

Shame. I'd love to work with a mixture of the 2 as required.

From: Smartzkid
I couldn't see myself using breakpoints/stepping while writing scripts, but a watch window would be useful.

I'd say SCAR has a more refined interface. Along those same lines, is it just me, or is Simba's update window really ugly?

Probably will be banned for saying this but…
The SCAR interface (in my opinion) is much prettier to the eye, Simba is quite ugly (update window too :p). So you're not alone.

From: Bixby Sayz
Moot point anyway as Reflection doesn't seem to work with SCAR anymore. Man I've been gone too long.

Shame. I'd love to work with a mixture of the 2 as required.

Working reflection with SCAR (and Simba), but it's not completed yet https://github.com/Timer/RRL/.

From: Bixby Sayz
Moot point anyway as Reflection doesn't seem to work with SCAR anymore. Man I've been gone too long.

Shame. I'd love to work with a mixture of the 2 as required.

Reflection works with SCAR. The reflection include does not, but that is by design.

I support report box

From: Bixby Sayz
Wow did that start a shitstorm.

I was not I repeat not dissing Simba. I was simply wondering how others felt about how some features they were used to using are not carried over into Simba.

It would be nice to occasionally be able to ask an opinion on here without being flamed to death.

As for the stepping, I got used to using that doing development work in Delphi\C++ Builder. Insanely useful to step through code watching variables change, seeing what effects each line of code has, and so on. Quite often you discover your code isn't quite as clever/good as you thought it was.

Sounds like I am also the only one that likes seeing the state of my army in a nice summary in the report window while the activity of the current player is detailed in the debug window. Who knew? Ya didn't have to bite my head off for it.

Don't think anyone flamed you, but you did make the invite for a shitstorm by saying "How is taking away features an improvement?", that really just calls for retaliation; it was a rather unfounded statement.

*Closing*

If you want the Report Window, file a bug and it'll probably be added seeing the amino from other members as well.