SRL Archive - Discussions and Debates

Why is it that some Members, as soon as they see the line of code to include Reflection on apps, vote 'no'? I will name people, and one person in particular is cycrosism.

Don't like seeing the reflection include being used, you should try to create a script that relies fully on srl and not reflection.

Edit: Lol at the person who derepped me for this

But I vote no if I see the reflection include, as do many other members

Don't let people apply with reflection in their scripts. They are forgetting what SRL Membership is all about.

Can I ask why people instantly vote 'no' after seeing one line of code? Xanith said in his app (that's where the first quote is from) that he only used Reflection in one function, yet cycrosism insisted on voting no purely because it was being used.

This might sound like a dig at cycrosism, but it's not. I'm just trying to find the reason why people don't like a more reliable method.

PS: Neg rep was from me. I like to keep you amused by making you LOL. No need to thank me.

I haven't voted in any membership applications in a long time just because i feel like I am unqualified to do so. However, I feel like the best scripts are always going to be some sort of hybrid.

Reflection is vastly superior to color in many ways. Why not take advantage? And the areas where reflection fails slightly, bring in color.

Just for an example: If TileOnMS were working properly, I have a function to find cows that works better than any other method I'm able to use at this time. When finding four tiled monsters such as cows, reflection fails because it sometimes does not have the real location of the monster. Color is much slower, and has problems such as finding dairy cows and things like that. What I will be using once the fix is here, finds a cow based on reflection, then searches a set area around the tile the cow is recorded to be on for cow colors. When I remove the TileToMS check, it works perfectly as long as the cow is on the screen. Works like nothing else.

I understand that coding in color is much more stable and hard to do. I understand that to become a DEVELOPER skill in color should be shown. However, to become an SRL Member, I don't believe it to be necessary. Scripts that are near flawless can be made with never once using color to do anything.

E: Useful poster thing sweet.

I vote no to applications which use reflection because an SRL membership application is suppose to demonstrate your knowledge in SRL and reflection is a 3rd party include, so I generally I vote no when I see the reflection include.

It use to be very good in the past, I remember, if it had reflection, almost every member would vote no, but now it looks like it has changed and reflection has become a common acceptance.

From: kitchenrange
I haven't voted in any membership applications in a long time just because i feel like I am unqualified to do so. However, I feel like the best scripts are always going to be some sort of hybrid.

Reflection is vastly superior to color in many ways. Why not take advantage? And the areas where reflection fails slightly, bring in color.

Just for an example: If TileOnMS were working properly, I have a function to find cows that works better than any other method I'm able to use at this time. When finding four tiled monsters such as cows, reflection fails because it sometimes does not have the real location of the monster. Color is much slower, and has problems such as finding dairy cows and things like that. What I will be using once the fix is here, finds a cow based on reflection, then searches a set area around the tile the cow is recorded to be on for cow colors. When I remove the TileToMS check, it works perfectly as long as the cow is on the screen. Works like nothing else.

I understand that coding in color is much more stable and hard to do. I understand that to become a DEVELOPER skill in color should be shown. However, to become an SRL Member, I don't believe it to be necessary. Scripts that are near flawless can be made with never once using color to do anything.

E: Useful poster thing sweet.

Thanks for the post. Glad to see someone agrees.

stuck up, bringing up old issues

To whoever gave me that, these 'issues' are fairly recent. Don't know what sort of timescale you work by…


EDIT:

From: cycrosism
It use to be very good in the past, I remember, if it had reflection, almost every member would vote no, but now it looks like it has changed and reflection has become a common acceptance.

Why is everyone voting no on Reflection a good thing? Also there's obviously a reason for it becoming a common acceptance; it works (mostly) better than colour, so would should it be looked down on?

From: Rich
Why is everyone voting no on Reflection a good thing? Also there's obviously a reason for it becoming a common acceptance; it works (mostly) better than colour, so would should it be looked down on?

Yeah sure it works better, and I only look down to reflection when it is being used as an SRL member application. I use reflection in one of my scripts but if I were applying for SRL membership, I wouldn't use this include I would find an alternate way.

We are looking for people who have knowledge in SRL, if we keep accepting applications that have reflection soon everyone will use it and one major update could break every script (I remember this has happened before)

If its only reflection without color backup, its a no for me as well. Your supposed to show your skill with the SRL include, and if you use something else to walk or find objects, its not showing your SRL knowledge.

Exactly. If I used reflection for everything, I wouldn't know how to use DDTMs, Radial walk and TPA's.

All I have to say is this is an old debate, whether it is right or wrong, each member reserves the right to vote based on whatever reason.

Applying for members is supposed to display your knowledge of the SRL include. Reflection is a 3rd party include supported by a couple of SRLers
Just because its reliable doesnt mean you should or should not apply with it.

Noidea said this on Xanith's SRL member app and I agree with him fully

Edit: Oh and rich you didn't have to derep me for "Idiotic" you are just lucky I am nice and not de repping you back

From: cycrosism
I vote no to applications which use reflection because an SRL membership application is suppose to demonstrate your knowledge in SRL and reflection is a 3rd party include, so I generally I vote no when I see the reflection include.

It use to be very good in the past, I remember, if it had reflection, almost every member would vote no, but now it looks like it has changed and reflection has become a common acceptance.

Do you also vote no on apps that has SMART enabled?

From: Zyt3x
Do you also vote no on apps that has SMART enabled?

If it has SMART include in the script, I see that as no different to including SRL, since SMART is part of srl. It doesn't really give the scripter an advantage apart from better testing, (can stop and start the script and not just sit there as the script runs on your browser) and allows you to run multiple bots at the same time.

From: cycrosism
Edit: Oh and rich you didn't have to derep me for "Idiotic" you are just lucky I am nice and not de repping you back

It was my opinion. My opinion was that it was idiotic to vote 'no' just because Reflection was used in one function. Also, if you want to neg rep me, go ahead.

From: cycrosism
If it has SMART include in the script, I see that as no different to including SRL, since SMART is part of srl. It doesn't really give the scripter an advantage apart from better testing, (can stop and start the script and not just sit there as the script runs on your browser) and allows you to run multiple bots at the same time.

Last time I checked, SRL can run just fine without SMART.
"reflection is a 3rd party include, so I generally I vote no when I see the reflection include.". SMART is a 3rd party component too, so I don't really see how that is a valid argument…

And my opinion is to vote no for apps that include reflection. Thats like me saying I want to derep everyone who votes yes to an app that has reflection

edit:

From: Zyt3x
Last time I checked, SRL can run just fine without SMART.
"reflection is a 3rd party include, so I generally I vote no when I see the reflection include.". SMART is a 3rd party component too, so I don't really see how that is a valid argument…

Because as I said SMART doesn't give the user any advantage, it just lets them run a script and use their computer at the same time. I don't see a need to vote no for that. But with reflection its another deal. I can't be bothered running through why it is just read what i've written in this thread.

From: Rich
Why is everyone voting no on Reflection a good thing? Also there's obviously a reason for it becoming a common acceptance; it works (mostly) better than colour, so would should it be looked down on?

Who says it works better than color?

That is the issue, it does NOT work better than color it just makes the things that are hard in color easier to do.

AFAIK, there was never anything we couldn't make in color (pre-reflection) that we can now make with reflection. Just the fact that some things are easier to do with reflection, not better to do with reflection.

One who scripts strictly in reflection is one who runs away from SRL when reflection is down… One who is strong in color scripting is one who helps SRL grow ;)

My two cents…

What is Smart? Really it's just a browser that allows us to bot in the minimized stat. For a lack of a long explanation. Smart isn't another way of scripting. Smart isn't a different way to script that doesn't use SRL.

Reflection has so many pieces to it now that it in itself is it's own include. You could use Smart and Ref and never touch SRL if you wanted.

What people are saying is this using reflection doesn't show your knowledge of SRL. Members Apps are supposed to be IIRC our way of seeing the user's usage of that particular include. Not the Reflection one. Can you say that the Reflection banking is better than the SRL banking. If so then talk to me 20 minutes after an update and see which is working.

If we go to completely Reflection Applications then lets just call it Reflection Members instead of SRL.

Sorry think I got on a rage there. Hope no one is offended by my words above. I have my share of reflection scripts to do the really short mundane things like Vail filling and soft clay making. So this was not an anti REF rage. Just a rage against the over usage in Apps.

~BraK

E: @Zytex Smart is an include yes but it would be much better labeled as a tool.

From: Rich
My opinion was that it was idiotic to vote 'no' just because Reflection was used in one function.

Well that may be, but when I opened his srl membership and saw the reflection include, I didn't go through his script and see how much of it was reflection, I just saw that it was being used and commented on his application as to why I voted no.

Offtopic: Why is it called Appliances? An appliance is a microwave, blender etc… shouldn't it be renamed to applications?

In my eyes, reflection is nowadays a part of the SRL include. When I type out "{$i Reflection\Reflection.Simba}" (actually I don't type it out, its saved to my default script in Simba, but same difference) its the same thing as typing "{$i SRL\SRL\Misc\Reflection.Simba}.

Color can do everything Reflection can. Reflection can do everything Color can. Some things, color does better than Reflection. Some things, Reflection does better than color. Each method has its own advantages, and has a time and place to be used.

While a script that is only 60 lines long and abuses reflection should not get some one the rank of an SRL Member, a script that contains both color and reflection in appropriate places should.

From: BraK
What people are saying is this using reflection doesn't show your knowledge of SRL. Members Apps are supposed to be IIRC our way of seeing the user's usage of that particular include. Not the Reflection one.

I always thought that applications were for the user to demonstrate his or her scripting ability to the members, regardless of the include used. If the ability is demonstrated, I'm not sure why the choice of include would be of much importance.

On a side note, I distinctly remember people being admitted in the past with scripts that weren't even related to SRL or RuneScape. Maybe that just doesn't happen anymore.

From: BraK
Can you say that the Reflection banking is better than the SRL banking. If so then talk to me 20 minutes after an update and see which is working.

You're not comparing the functionality and effectiveness of the two sets of banking functions. Instead, you're saying that because the hooks file in the reflection include may not be updated within twenty minutes after an update, the banking functions in the include are somehow worse than the ones in SRL. That seems like faulty logic to me.

It should be based of scripting ability, plain and simple. Go ahead and use Reflection, but you need to demonstrate that you know how to use SRL and it's components ((D)DTM's, TPA's, RadialWalk/TPA Walking, etc.). Otherwise, I would vote no. I only say that because when I applied, you needed to demonstrate knowledge of those things. To be an SRL member, you had to show that you knew how to use SRL.

I agree that a few people have slipped through easily with Reflection scripts, but I don't agree with that. I won't vote no if Reflection is being used and proper knowledge of SRL is demonstrated, but I will vote no if it's being used for walking 100% plus extremely simple things like banking etc.

As sirlaughsalot stated; it's really up to the member voting and their opinion, though.

From: cycrosism
Well that may be, but when I opened his srl membership and saw the reflection include, I didn't go through his script and see how much of it was reflection, I just saw that it was being used and commented on his application as to why I voted no.

Offtopic: Why is it called Appliances? An appliance is a microwave, blender etc… shouldn't it be renamed to applications?

I agree with what everyone has had to say, and I'll agree that I would vote 'no' on a completely Reflection app, because it shows no knowledge of SRL. But what I'm on about is what cycrosism said in the quote above. At least look through the script to see how much is Reflection, and then decide on your vote, and don't vote 'no' because there's that one line of code to include Reflection.

I would say that only reflection is a most likely no.

This is not due to it being reflection: it is due to the scripters who use reflection usually wanting to have an easier time for a task that could effectively be done in color.

eg: CastleWars is an ok reflection script to apply with :)

~RM

We are forgetting something aren't we ;) SRL Membership was there way before reflection (not sure if even iBot had the walking back then). Think about it like this -

First of all, SRL Membership isn't a right or a privilidge, right now think of it as a yellow name for me.

Yellow name means you can do A, you can do B and you're pretty good with C. Now why would you apply with D? That's a different color you're going for there.

Several posts were deleted from this thread. Why, may I ask?

Edit: Derp.

From: TomTuff
Several posts were deleted from this thread. Why, may I ask?

Users could have deleted them themselves after posting.

~BraK

I noticed one of mine and Zyt3x's has been deleted. I didn't delete mine, so it must have been a mod/admin. Can I ask that mod/admin why?

From: Rich
I noticed one of mine and Zyt3x's has been deleted. I didn't delete mine, so it must have been a mod/admin. Can I ask that mod/admin why?

That's weird… We didn't say anything 'delete-able'… Who did this?

Reflection is the future imo.

From: Dervish
Reflection is the future imo.

I disagree. Reflection is now, OpenGL Hooking is the future

From: Zyt3x
I disagree. Reflection is now, OpenGL Hooking is the future

There'll still be those of us on computers that can't even handle RS HD ;)

Reflection is a valid part of our community, and it shouldn't confer an instant no. IF people DON'T show the knowledge in colour scripting, then that IS grounds for a no. I leave it up to the community to decide if a lack of knowledge of reflection is grounds for a no, I personally think it SHOULD be. Knowledge of everything SRL, colour and reflection, should be neccessary for SRL Membership, or should/could we have a seperate title for Reflection.

From: Daniel
There'll still be those of us on computers that can't even handle RS HD ;)

Sure, but most of them can, and they will in the future :)

OpenGL hooking i dont believe is the complete future. From what i've seen, it will very useful in very many things, but without the basis of color and reflection, OpenGL hooking is like an infant trying to carve wood statues.(at least in this game)

From: cycrosism
Edit: Oh and rich you didn't have to derep me for "Idiotic" you are just lucky I am nice and not de repping you back

Actually that one may have been me, if you're still talking about the app, I de-repped you for the post too. :)

So to be on topic,
I vote no when a person has thrown together a shitty reflection script. If you look at my Karamja fisher script, I have a 1500 line script which mainly relies on reflection. I'm sure that any reasonable person could figure out that I have many custom reflection functions in my script and I use them to my advantage. If someone had done this and applied, I would vote yes. However, a 300 line script using only functions from reflection and no SRL would receive a no, simply because it wasn't well coded. I personally don't care whether the person uses SRL or Reflection, SRL Members is not a rank for those who are great at SRL or Reflection scripting. It's simply a rank which relies on scripting skill. If you have scripting skill for Simba/SCAR, I will vote yes.

From: kitchenrange
OpenGL hooking i dont believe is the complete future. From what i've seen, it will very useful in very many things, but without the basis of color and reflection, OpenGL hooking is like an infant trying to carve wood statues.(at least in this game)

What do you mean? OpenGL could be used for anything..?
Enlighten me if I'm wrong :)

Back in my day, there was no Reflection. ;)

Obviously I'm not going to see a well coded script that uses reflection briefly and vote no. But it is possible to throw together complete shit with reflection that is poorly coded and still have it run for hours quite well, and obviously that deserves a no vote.

From: Zyt3x
What do you mean? OpenGL could be used for anything..?
Enlighten me if I'm wrong :)

For something as simple as inventory items I dont believe they are assigned Id's or anything like that. I could be wrong.