SRL Archive - Discussions and Debates

[RANT] Phr33 scripts are too good and there are too many of them! We really need to fix up the member script section and get some more epic scripts in there! Giving all the good scripts to the public is just a bad idea… Are we the new RSbot? or are we SRL? Imo SRL should be "Script, Read, Learn"… There are too many leechers and fools around here… Where is the incentive for newbs to learn and become members? Handing them all these epic scripts is not helping anyone, and Imo, causing more bans… Now I know SRL has little effect on the mass amount of bots crowding RS, but wouldn't it be more wise to keep epic scripts limited to those who deserve it? Just because ever other site has millions of phr33 scripts doesn't mean we should too… I thought SRL was all about getting people to learn how to do everything we do on their own.. [/RANT]

The Solution: Make Reflection scripts for members only?

Why will this work? Because it will force newbs to learn real scripting ( color ;) ) and will keep most of the flawless scripts out of leechville… And give a lot of incentive for them to Script, Read, Learn to get that epic members status ;) And possibly even make SRL scripts close to unbannable… fewer (and smarter) people using them = less bans?

Thoughts and ideas?

Interesting. I think Reflection was members only when it came out.

You're suggestiong to make Reflection "hidden" for non SRL Members+?
Sounds whack to me.. :p

But if you're suggesting that we (SRL Members+) should only release our Reflection scripts to SRL Members+, then that's another case… :P I agree with that

Reflection should never be limited. It is the scripter's choice to release in public, and I believe most do it there so that they actually get used.

From: mormonman
Reflection should never be limited. It is the scripter's choice to release in public, and I believe most do it there so that they actually get used.

This. There should be no limitation regardign reflection. It comes packaged with SMART and the reflection include is developed by the entire community.

Besides the point that it's developed by the community, nobody uses SRL Member scripts..

From: 3Garrett3
Besides the point that it's developed by the community, nobody uses SRL Member scripts..

Probably because people remake Members scripts and release them to public..


The only way this would ever work is if people weren't selfish about having the "best" (most used) script around.


I 100% agree that SRL Members should have better scripts. Problem being that with Reflection, if you can read and type you can make any script you want.

At first no, they wouldn't be used as much, but stats are pretty popular. Everyone looking and seeing scripts they can't access but would love to use on there would give them reason to try some things. Takes a community effort though, not just a couple people.

Well I only own one script that's not even used a shit ton in Jrs. I would move it to Members though if there was an initiative to move scripts that aren't bad to private sections.

This is the way it was years ago. So no.

Need to think about this one. Initially like the idea.

Surely no one believes the SRL staff is going to tell everyone "hey you can't use reflection anymore, you're not a member" or "hey you can't release this script here it has reflection in it". People can do whatever they want with their work, and the people that develop reflection.

If you don't want there to be leaching don't release your scripts in public, why does the staff need to step in and decide what to do for people.

It's really a decision for BenLand, the reflection developers, and maybe the script makers to decide. A decision that I thought was already made a long long time ago.

Didn't we try this in the beginning? It was either reflection or SMART AFAIK, and it didn't work because some members kept leaking stuff?

From: 3Garrett3
Well I only own one script that's not even used a shit ton in Jrs. I would move it to Members though if there was an initiative to move scripts that aren't bad to private sections.

You shouldn't need any initiative. The motive should be what I always thought the meaning of SRL is; stop leeching and start learning. It's our responsibility to give the public some initiative if we want leeching to stop.

Handing them every script they want isn't doing them any good, from a "start learning" perspective anyways.

I think any guild script or high profit/XP script should be made members+. Another option would be to make public scripts somewhat slower, or have less features(Breaks, certain loc's, etc.), but still be essentially the 'same' script. Let people get out of it what they put into it.

EDIT: Just to clear things up, I'm not saying make Reflection members, but rather keep more scripts members.

Keep it public please… agree with Icefire.

Not trying to eliminate reflection for public…

From: Nose_Smasher
The Solution: Make Reflection scripts for members+ only

Now I know we can't tell people not to use the scripts they already have… But we can put future reflection scripts in members+ only… The whole point of my idea was to Increase the use of Members+ only scripts… And to give everyone who isn't members+ a reason to become one ;)

From: Zyt3x
But if you're suggesting that we (SRL Members+) should only release our Reflection scripts to SRL Members+, then that's another case… :P I agree with that

Yes

From: Harry
Keep it public please… agree with Icefire.

Reflection itself can be public… public can still script with reflection if they choose… But the flawless scripts (99% of them created by Members+) should be saved for members+


And I do vaguely remember that Banking was supposed to be members+ only originally…

From: NCDS
You shouldn't need any initiative. The motive should be what I always thought the meaning of SRL is; stop leeching and start learning. It's our responsibility to give the public some initiative if we want leeching to stop.

Handing them every script they want isn't doing them any good, from a "start learning" perspective anyways.

I think any guild script or high profit/XP script should be made members+. Another option would be to make public scripts somewhat slower, or have less features(Breaks, certain loc's, etc.), but still be essentially the 'same' script. Let people get out of it what they put into it.

EDIT: Just to clear things up, I'm not saying make Reflection members, but rather keep more scripts members.

Well personally I have an entirely Jr Member group of people giving feedback on my script. Harry also has a script available to Jr Memebers which gets almost entirely Jr Member feedback. Both do the same thing. There is no incentive for me to move my script to Members only because there would still be a good script which fishes Karamja available to Jr Members.

Not saying Harry is the only reason to not move my script, but it would be stupid to move it when I haven't had a single SRL Member give feedback on the script since I've released it.

From: 3Garrett3
Not saying Harry is the only reason to not move my script, but it would be stupid to move it when I haven't had a single SRL Member give feedback on the script since I've released it.

If it were members+ you would ONLY have members+ feedback… :p

From: nose_smasher
If it were members+ you would ONLY have members+ feedback… :p

Meaning.. none :)

From: nose_smasher
Reflection itself can be public… public can still script with reflection if they choose… But the flawless scripts (99% of them created by Members+) should be saved for members+

My scripts are WTFPL. That stands for (excuse my language), "Do What The Fuck You Want To Public License". I shall do whatever the fuck I want with my code, and everyone else should have the same freedom.

Moving most(all?) the stable working reflection scripts to Members only won't encourage anyone to apply for members or remain active – most people will all just go to RSBot or whatever. The times have changed. Java bots that are so easy to just download, run, and do everything, are rampant now of days. SRL activity has gone up a bit recently, and forcing people to earn scripts will not help at all.

Pop it up this way: if you just joined the forums here with the proposed regulations, and joined powerbot forums as well… where would you stay at? I can bet 99% chance that you'd choose powerbot because you're just a bored RS player who wants to get a nice quick and working bot. At the current way, some people choose to stick here, and maybe eventually they would apply, but you should not limit peoples creativity based on the script description.

Leechers are bad, I 100% agree, but the regulations proposed will only harm SRL's community. We still need to encourage and push out members-only scripts, but forcing people to put their script somewhere else IS NOT GOOD.

It's gonna have to be a joint effort obviously… And it's not gonna happen over night… But honestly, we NEED this (or something with the same effect) to happen… Right now, what is even the point of members script section? And why am I even a member? Why are you a member? Because we can script? Yet we release them to the public?

I released my CockRoach Smasher to the public because I was too lazy to test and members+ script section has always been dead… And then it got abused for a while and eventually I stopped updating it… But now with reflection I can make it absolutely flawless and let it run until you run out of food in your bank… Something with that much power I don't want in the hands of the public… ( Which is why I am moving it to Members+ as soon as I finish updating it ;) )

EDIT: @ harry: Not saying to force anyone to do anything… Just saying I think that members+ section is dead and needs for active people in it… Take your Karamja Fisher for example; Flawless… Maybe the public version can either drop or sell all fish to general store whereas the members+ version will note at stiles (and drop or sell if chosen)

Just things like that to get people interested in scripting and interested in what we do here at SRL…

EDIT2: and not all the flawless scripts are reflection… Narcle's a certified beast ;)

EDIT3: The way I see it is, the more people we have that know how to script, the more future Devs and useful SRL testers we will have… Not just the usual complaints: "WDF Scr1ptz do0esn9t wooorrk?!"

I don't believe in nerfing free software (that I made); a user either gets the same version I do, or they get nothing! It would be cool if more users made members-only scripts, but I don't know if there are many people that would do it.

From: Harry
I don't believe in nerfing free software (that I made); a user either gets the same version I do, or they get nothing! It would be cool if more users made members-only scripts, but I don't know if there are many people that would do it.

Your opinion, very valid, and very respected.

MSI will have more members scripts coming, especially since I just bought members again for that purpose. (suggestions are very welcome)

The main problem I see is having the same scripts in public as in members. I wish very badly that I had released MSI's Magic cutter to members+, but that's wasn't even talked about when I had released it.

The same thing I said above applies here as well, we'll get from it what we put into it.

From: Harry
I don't believe in nerfing free software (that I made); a user either gets the same version I do, or they get nothing! It would be cool if more users made members-only scripts, but I don't know if there are many people that would do it.

Understandable.. Maybe your next script can be members+ ;)

Honestly, Idc what we do, I just want there to be a use for the members script section…

I personally think the public section should be for testing scripts and mass feedback, then once flawless, move to members+?

There has to be something we can all agree on… I'm pretty sure we would all love to see the members section more active…

From: nose_smasher

I personally think the public section should be for testing scripts and mass feedback, then once flawless, move to members+?

Then whats the point of the public helping fix the script?

Give them a taste of what they're missing out on ;)

Nah actually some Jr.Members are cool and they deserve to see some pretty bad ass scripts.

The problem is, no one uses scripts in the Member's section. The majority of people who are Members or higher don't play RS much anymore, or they just have their main and don't want to bot on it. We're caught in a vicious cycle… people stopped using members scripts, so no one puts their scripts in members+, so there are no scripts for members to use, so no one can provide feed back to scripts, so no one posts in members because there's no feedback.

The only solution is for people to start posting awesome scripts in the Member's Scripts section, and deal with the lack of feed back. However, forcing someone to release their script to a limited audience simply because they used certain methods will never be the answer.

IDK, if this has been posted yet. What about the reflection scripts that have been released lately by non-members? Such as Dynamite, he has released 5 reflection scripts, but there's no way he could post them in members.


I say let the script writer choose. It's their script and they can choose what happens with it.

From: J_Pizzle
IDK, if this has been posted yet. What about the reflection scripts that have been released lately by non-members? Such as Dynamite, he has released 5 reflection scripts, but there's no way he could post them in members.


I say let the script writer choose. It's their script and they can choose what happens with it.

My second post on this thread: http://villavu.com/forum/showpost.php?p=772281&postcount=15

I'll just say that I'm pro Member only scripts… in fact I think all my scripts are in members atm

~RM

Giving free users access to good scripts makes the community grow

From: cycrosism
Giving free users access to good scripts makes the community grow

i think keeping reflection members+ is not the right way to go about it, but the idea of any incentive to make people want to learn is a great idea, be that through new script s being released or scripts with extra features

From: cycrosism
Giving free users access to good scripts makes the community grow

No it doesn't (mostly). People will join, take the scripts, and leave.

I think it does, I think there should be a balance.. I don't think cutting reflection / color is the right way of splitting the cheese…

~RM

Cutting it strictly by color/reflection is not a good idea. This has been stated numerous times within the thread.

The question now comes to in what way should we go about this. The thing I remember from the past is Banking not being included for Jr. Members. This was a HUGE incentive for me to script.

There are gonna be a hundred thousand people coming here to leech scripts. They will take the free ones and not give a damn about SRL or anyone involved. There will also be people that see very well coded powerfishers, miners etc. and will want to take the plunge into scripting. Which type of people do we want to be a part of SRL?

I'm not saying taking Banking out of Jr. Mems is the way to go, but I think something along those lines should be done. As to the long time Jr. Mems that have been around forever, they could probably script if they tried. There could also be some other way to get into membership, such as automatic approval by ?someone? for contributing in other ways.

From: Rich
No it doesn't (mostly). People will join, take the scripts, and leave.

I don't mind, the more people using my scripts the better

From: kitchenrange
Cutting it strictly by color/reflection is not a good idea. This has been stated numerous times within the thread.

The question now comes to in what way should we go about this. The thing I remember from the past is Banking not being included for Jr. Members. This was a HUGE incentive for me to script.

There are gonna be a hundred thousand people coming here to leech scripts. They will take the free ones and not give a damn about SRL or anyone involved. There will also be people that see very well coded powerfishers, miners etc. and will want to take the plunge into scripting. Which type of people do we want to be a part of SRL?

I'm not saying taking Banking out of Jr. Mems is the way to go, but I think something along those lines should be done. As to the long time Jr. Mems that have been around forever, they could probably script if they tried. There could also be some other way to get into membership, such as automatic approval by ?someone? for contributing in other ways.

Agreed.

From: kitchenrange
Cutting it strictly by color/reflection is not a good idea. This has been stated numerous times within the thread.

The question now comes to in what way should we go about this. The thing I remember from the past is Banking not being included for Jr. Members. This was a HUGE incentive for me to script.

There are gonna be a hundred thousand people coming here to leech scripts. They will take the free ones and not give a damn about SRL or anyone involved. There will also be people that see very well coded powerfishers, miners etc. and will want to take the plunge into scripting. Which type of people do we want to be a part of SRL?

I'm not saying taking Banking out of Jr. Mems is the way to go, but I think something along those lines should be done. As to the long time Jr. Mems that have been around forever, they could probably script if they tried. There could also be some other way to get into membership, such as automatic approval by ?someone? for contributing in other ways.

People being auto memberized is already polled in higher forums so that is always possible. I would like to see something like this in place again if we are going to get the anticipated influx of activity (which seems to be happening somewhat already).

Obviously we want to find more WT-Fakawis, more devs, etc, and two factors help with this. The first is improving the percentage of registered users that become juniors, the percentage of juniors that become members, etc etc, by providing a good learning environment (even Fakawi wasn't born knowing how to script). The second is increasing the number of registered users you start with (and therefore each successive level).

While that remains important, I think it is also important to not discard the leechers that don't become juniors, the juniors that don't become members, etc etc. Each successive level is smaller than the last, and although the earlier levels may not provide as high quality code/feedback/other contributions as the later levels, they make up for it in numbers. The key is making it easy for people without the time/effort/desire/skill/etc to 'level up' to contribute in small ways that add up (of course while nurturing those that do level up), for example automatic success tracking and debug reporting. Basically what I'm saying is having a lot of leechers isn't a bad thing, as long as they can help out without trying.

I suppose if you really wanted to make use of the members vs juniors scripts thing, you could make scripts in the junior section produce items needed for scripts in the member section and vice versa. But it would take an agreement of members, plus a junior could always make a version of what is in the member section. Also scripts at other sites would undermine the whole thing (same with banking vs power scripts).

Don't let people apply with reflection in their scripts. They are forgetting what SRL Membership is all about.

From: cycrosism
Don't let people apply with reflection in their scripts. They are forgetting what SRL Membership is all about.

Back to this argument again…It has nothing to do with what is being discussed BTW.

From: cycrosism
Don't let people apply with reflection in their scripts. They are forgetting what SRL Membership is all about.

Why does everything come back to this? I see no harm if reflection is used properly and the applicant can clearly script /offtopic sorry if that seems a little personal

what is everyone thoughts about let's say no banking it certian restrictions being placed on scripts? But it will always come back to the fact that someone has put in hours of work and will actually want feedback and others to use it so it doesn't seem like a big waste of time perfecting a script

From: Boreas

I suppose if you really wanted to make use of the members vs juniors scripts thing, you could make scripts in the junior section produce items needed for scripts in the member section and vice versa.
…
Also scripts at other sites would undermine the whole thing (same with banking vs power scripts).

Love the idea of juniors producing for members.

I also think that Junior's with the tester cups should have view access to members scripts… or at least to a testers only zone..that'd be cool..

~RM

From: Sir R. Magician
I also think that Junior's with the tester cups should have view access to members scripts… or at least to a testers only zone..that'd be cool..

~RM

I like that idea. Like it's now, many of the cups are useless (SRL Tester is one of them). This would make people wanting the cup = wanting to help SRL = SRL grows.

From: Sir R. Magician
I also think that Junior's with the tester cups should have view access to members scripts… or at least to a testers only zone..that'd be cool..

~RM

Like the idea as well.

I say make is SSRL+ only, you don't need much scripting skill to get into SRL Members, just a little bit of time and make a generally decent script (that works).

I am just saying this because I think reflection should be open to everyone. I find it funny how the cut-off is a rank that the poster has achieved…

How about make a sub-section in the Members forum for where Juniors can post scripts, and only Members and the poster can see it? Sort of like how to app section works.

From: Rich
How about make a sub-section in the Members forum for where Juniors can post scripts, and only Members and the poster can see it? Sort of like how to app section works.

What would the benefit of such a proposal be? I can't think straight at the moment, so an explanation would be nice :).

From: pyroryan
What would the benefit of such a proposal be? I can't think straight at the moment, so an explanation would be nice :).

It would allow Jr Members to post their script in the Members only section, so that only they and Members can see. I think?

From: Rich
Back to this argument again…It has nothing to do with what is being discussed BTW.

You know, this was the way its supposed to be. Somewhere along the line people just started voting yes for people with reflection applications, generally the people who were let in before that couldn't use reflection. A good example of exponential assimilation. Imo, this completely on topic or at least very relevant.

From: pyroryan
What would the benefit of such a proposal be? I can't think straight at the moment, so an explanation would be nice :).

From: 3Garrett3
It would allow Jr Members to post their script in the Members only section, so that only they and Members can see. I think?

Not actually sure myself. Just thought I'd chip in.