SRL Archive - Reflection Discussion

Hey all

Is the updater available to all or only to devs (I have a feeling its the latter)? I have an old version from the SVN but it's really outdated. I'm keen to help out by rewriting broken searches/hooking some new things if I can.

Let me know :)

its not available to anyone, pyro created his, and its for him to use only, I disagree with this policy, however its pyro's (which I typed pryo about 10 times then) call…

If someone wishes to have his updater source closed source, then he may. I don't see why you would disagree with this.

I think that its in the best intrest of the community to have it public, not that he shouldn't be able to have it closed source.

He does it out of the goodness in his heart, all by himself, why would he share it?
Even if it would benefit the community or not.

I don't know, if we had it open source then there is a higher chance of seeing an improvement in reflection development. But in the end its the owners call of course.

Most people, like 95% or more, would NOT be able to handle a updater source. Mostly because it requires you to be very advanced in how java, or the source that the updater is in, works. The owner of the source also spends lots of time reading and writing code to find the hooks needed. It is their decision on whether they release it or not, but most probably wont.

Also, Even if you were able to get the source code and just run it, parts of the code breaks with every update that jagex makes, so you will not just be able to have it and run it and poof, hooks for everyone

From: traveler
Most people, like 95% or more

I'd say more than 95%. At least 99.9999%

From: Zyt3x
I'd say more than 95%. At least 99.9999%

was trying to give people the benefit of the doubt.

There is an updater in the SMART source. Look for Benland's repos.

I believe it is outdated but will be a good start.

Well that is a shame. For once I had hoped that Reflection had actually matured up. Keeping the source closed makes everyone, in fact; a leecher. They can't help to improve it, all they can do is beg the owner to ``fix eet''. What if pryoryan suddenly has an accident and can't be at SRL for a month? It'll be a big blow to reflection. If pryoryan actually cares about his community and friends, he'll open up his source. Especially since there is nothing to lose. SMART is a fine example for this. So is Simba.

From: traveler
Most people, like 95% or more, would NOT be able to handle a updater source. Mostly because it requires you to be very advanced in how java, or the source that the updater is in, works. The owner of the source also spends lots of time reading and writing code to find the hooks needed. It is their decision on whether they release it or not, but most probably wont.

I call bullshit. I'd say Java is one of the more simplistic languages and I don't believe maintaining and making an updater is that hard. (It may be time consuming) Furthermore, I'd give Simba the same ``percentage'' (actually, I think it's easy but it just takes some time to learn it) about not being able to handle the source, yet several people have in fact contributed some major features.

From: traveler
Also, Even if you were able to get the source code and just run it, parts of the code breaks with every update that jagex makes, so you will not just be able to have it and run it and poof, hooks for everyone

Does that matter? No. If someone wants the hooks he can just as easily get it from the other Java bots. RSBot or any of the clones.

From: Wizzup?
Well that is a shame. For once I had hoped that Reflection had actually matured up. Keeping the source closed makes everyone, in fact; a leecher. They can't help to improve it, all they can do is beg the owner to ``fix eet''. What if pryoryan suddenly has an accident and can't be at SRL for a month? It'll be a big blow to reflection. If pryoryan actually cares about his community and friends, he'll open up his source. Especially since there is nothing to lose. SMART is a fine example for this. So is Simba.



I call bullshit. I'd say Java is one of the more simplistic languages and I don't believe maintaining and making an updater is that hard. (It may be time consuming) Furthermore, I'd give Simba the same ``percentage'' (actually, I think it's easy but it just takes some time to learn it) about not being able to handle the source, yet several people have in fact contributed some major features.




Does that matter? No. If someone wants the hooks he can just as easily get it from the other Java bots. RSBot or any of the clones.

Saying "If pryoryan actually cares about his community and friends, he'll open up his source." coming from someone like you, is not very nice. He's willing to share the source to anyone that can control it without it getting into the wrong hands. In other words, if you're interested in helping him out, just PM him.

Be happy and respect his work instead of just talking down on it, as he's doing one hell of a job.

"For once I had hoped that Reflection had actually matured up." what? Give me a break.

I'm pretty sure Iamadam can handle some updater source lol. And indeed it's a shame everyone keeps theirs to themselves.

From: Naike
Saying "If pryoryan actually cares about his community and friends, he'll open up his source." coming from someone like you, is not very nice. He's willing to share the source to anyone that can control it without it getting into the wrong hands. In other words, if you're interested in helping him out, just PM him.

Be happy and respect his work instead of just talking down on it, as he's doing one hell of a job.

"For once I had hoped that Reflection had actually matured up." what? Give me a break.

Does it surprise you I say that? I think it was pretty obvious I disagree with pretty much everything on SRL that is of a closed nature. Source code cannot ``fall into the the wrong hands''.

Ok so updaters are closed source because if jagex got a hold of a commonly used updater, they would(could) close the patterns that the updater uses. However benland's updater is a good start for anyone willing to try. Use method's refactored client to make patterns.

Better updater = bigger dick. It's no wonder everyone wants to keep their updater code to themselves.

From: lordsaturn
Ok so updaters are closed source because if jagex got a hold of a commonly used updater, they would(could) close the patterns that the updater uses. However benland's updater is a good start for anyone willing to try. Use method's refactored client to make patterns.

If JaGeX was even remotely interested then why don't they start making life harder for say SMART? The code is completely open and I'm sure they could find ways to detect it / break it. Not saying Ben writes bad code… I'm just saying that they could. Thing is that JaGeX simply doesn't care. I'll bet you that if pryoryan releases his updater in public there would be no actions from JaGeX to counter it.

Same goes for rsbot, etc. They're open, yet Jagex doesn't do shit.

Saying that if you release an updater it will make it harder to update is ridiculous. More people would be able to contribute, and more knowledge will most definitely arise in the community.

I'm with Wizzup?.

From: Wizzup?
If JaGeX was even remotely interested then why don't they start making life harder for say SMART? The code is completely open and I'm sure they could find ways to detect it / break it. Not saying Ben writes bad code… I'm just saying that they could. Thing is that JaGeX simply doesn't care. I'll bet you that if pryoryan releases his updater in public there would be no actions from JaGeX to counter it.

Same argument goes for unsigned vs signed client, and the recent user agent changes made to SMART. However prevention is the best cure. It would be interesting what to see what would happen if his updater did go public. Jagex probably wouldn't do anything.

AFAIK, RSBot's updater is CLOSED SOURCE.

From: Train
AFAIK, RSBot's updater is CLOSED SOURCE.

I thought a load of poeple had got it easy. Also Rsbot = Java and RS = java so dont you think atleast someone their could get their hands on a updater if they wanted to?

Also i think it should be open soucre as more poeple try to learn and join in, however i kinda have to agree if you put lots of time in why you would want to keep it to your self :)

From: Troll Man
I thought a load of poeple had got it easy. Also Rsbot = Java and RS = java so dont you think atleast someone their could get their hands on a updater if they wanted to?

Also i think it should be open soucre as more poeple try to learn and join in, however i kinda have to agree if you put lots of time in why you would want to keep it to your self :)

If I put a lot of time into something, I want to share it with the world, see what I have wrote. I suppose that doesn't apply to everyone. Also, let's not jump to conclusions. It's perfectly possible that Pryoryan hasn't even read this thread. :)

Im not making any conclusions :) i just saying i think that if runescape wanted to they could get easy updaters of rsbots and proberly see how its done and make it a lot harder so there is not much reason for closed soucre. However if some one wants to keep their work to them self to stop copy cats (Even though i like that because i means your so good poeple want to be a good as you ;) )

I belive the reasons for closed/open here a even.

P.S. Im all for open soucre

Copy cats? are we all seriously in the first year of school, coving our papers from that kid next to us, even though he is twice as smart as us (not saying anyone here is twice as smart as pyro - although I could have done something funnier with the word SMART).

Q1.
Why did pyro create the updater?
To benifit the SRL community, and possibly other reasons including programming practice and as a challenge.

Q2.
Will making the updater open source benifit the community?
You guys can answer that…

Heh, this takes me back ^^

From: traveler
Most people, like 95% or more, would NOT be able to handle a updater source. Mostly because it requires you to be very advanced in how java, or the source that the updater is in, works.

What's a java???

It's pyros call if he wants to keep it closed. I'm happy to write my own :) I still have ARGAs updater base to use.

My thoughts are that it would be a really good idea for the updater to be at least partially open. Perhaps release the base without any pattern searches, and give full access to those who are trusted and have proven they know how to write good search algorithms.

From: Iamadam
What's a java???

uh java is a programing language? its what most of the updaters use (if im not mistaken)

From: Wizzup?
It's perfectly possible that Pryoryan hasn't even read this thread. :)

I think I linked him to this thread when I asked about the updater on MSN :redface:

From: traveler
uh java is a programing language? its what most of the updaters use (if im not mistaken)

It's called sarcasm, learn to recognize it.

From: Freddy1990
Heh, this takes me back ^^

Me too, and we all know what happens when an individual sits on a closed source program forever — it goes to pot and someone writes a better open-source alternative! Happens all the time.

From: Iamadam
What's a java???

It's pyros call if he wants to keep it closed. I'm happy to write my own :) I still have ARGAs updater base to use.

My thoughts are that it would be a really good idea for the updater to be at least partially open. Perhaps release the base without any pattern searches, and give full access to those who are trusted and have proven they know how to write good search algorithms.

Hey what happened to ARGA in the end? Also what happened to RS-R? :p
I came here when you guys were re-re-re-redeveloping it lol.

PS. Remember helping me on MSN with my first SCAR script (kebab buyer)? Thats nearly 4 years ago now…wow lol

ARGA got over-leeched and died and RSR got invaded by noobs like me who just couldn't manage to compile the bot/updater? The updater broke pretty soon after I think.
But I'm 99% sure it got forked into some other bot. Ares? Idk, too long ago.

Ben, was that a shot at freddy? oooooh fight, fight, fight, fight……etc

Were can I learn the stuff to make one?

From: Bad Boy JH
Ben, was that a shot at freddy? oooooh fight, fight, fight, fight……etc

Were can I learn the stuff to make one?

No, I think it was a reflection of the shot fired by someone else. In vain, though. ;)

You know, Open Source is fine and all, but only if the people who worked on it as hard as they possibly can, still get the credit they deserve. I think most of the time that's the only reason why they would try and keep it closed source: because they love doing something useful for the community. It's just a matter of perspective.

And stop bashing freddy, it's deplorable. He's done so much for this community and if you guys can't respect that and look past the argument, then you are miserable people.

From: Furyan
You know, Open Source is fine and all, but only if the people who worked on it as hard as they possibly can, still get the credit they deserve. I think most of the time that's the only reason why they would try and keep it closed source: because they love doing something useful for the community. It's just a matter of perspective.

Perhaps you can point me to a project here where that has happened? (Where someone no longer got credits?)
I can't think of any.

From: Furyan
And stop bashing freddy, it's deplorable. He's done so much for this community and if you guys can't respect that and look past the argument, then you are miserable people.

I don't want to start a flamewar but this is a pompously stupid comment. Freddy asked for that; I could resist replying to it but Benland apparently couldn't. Freddys post had absolutely nothing to do with the thread and only drew attention to him. (It's called off topic, spam)
If he doesn't want comments on his post then he just shouldn't post. There's numerous of reasons people act like they do and I'm afraid you don't have the slightest idea, so please don't try to correct me in this case. No, I'm not high on my horse, I'm just completely tired of these never ending arguments and especially the people who think they understand the matter. Putting a lot of effort into something isn't the same as doing a lot, it has to work properly too. If you wish to reply, do it in a PM or on a separate thread. This thread belongs to the Reflection Updater. Not to you, not to Freddy.

From: BenLand100
Me too, and we all know what happens when an individual sits on a closed source program forever — it goes to pot and someone writes a better open-source alternative! Happens all the time.

I guess that's a matter of opinion :)

But well, then go ahead and write a better open-source alternative instead of whining about this guy having his updater closed source…

From: Bad Boy JH
Were can I learn the stuff to make one?

My community RS-Hacking :)

I find it quite funny how you only bash Pyroryan when there's 2-3 other people with updaters?

How come people can't learn from the other open source alternatives?

What will change if he releases it? Nobody seems to use the others anyways, only evidence of them being used is one complaint of it not compiling!

From: Freddy1990
But well, then go ahead and write a better open-source alternative instead of whining about this guy having his updater closed source…

This is very valid. However, there have already been better open source updaters, its just that due to the transient nature of an updater, they no longer work. In my experience, open source updaters function much better because the art of hook making is something that no single person can do well at all the time, but there's always someone out there that sees a new or better pattern in the bytecode easily. My goal for releasing an updater base was to kick off a community driven updater, but it ended up being privatized anyway. Egos hold back development sometimes I guess.

From: BenLand100
This is very valid. However, there have already been better open source updaters, its just that due to the transient nature of an updater, they no longer work. In my experience, open source updaters function much better because the art of hook making is something that no single person can do well at all the time, but there's always someone out there that sees a new or better pattern in the bytecode easily. My goal for releasing an updater base was to kick off a community driven updater, but it ended up being privatized anyway. Egos hold back development sometimes I guess.

pyroryan happened to end up here at villavu by accident.

From: Naike
pyroryan happened to end up here at villavu by accident.

Instead of saying what we all think could be going on in his head, why not just wait for a post?

I'm tired of the high school drama here of people theorizing and whining and complaining. He's been linked to the thread, it would be a simple solution for him to say "I don't really want to make it open sauce" and then everyone says "okay" and then the thread is closed. End of story.

From: The Claw
Hey what happened to ARGA in the end? Also what happened to RS-R? :p
I came here when you guys were re-re-re-redeveloping it lol.

PS. Remember helping me on MSN with my first SCAR script (kebab buyer)? Thats nearly 4 years ago now…wow lol

We pretty much finished the rewrite of ARGA, but never ended up releasing it - life just got in the way - mainly got sick of fixing the updater.

And yeah, I do remember that! Ages ago, wow.

As for the updater, if I get time this week I'll start an SVN, open to people who know java relatively well.

Ah yea glad to hear you got it finished in the end…I think I used one of the new versions before it went under again.

Are you planning on sticking around by any chance? Our reflection pretty much relies on random people becoming interested in fixing up the hooks etc, but they often leave due to not getting enough appreciation and stuff… Was down for over a year at one stage lol. So pretty much any work you do here (code/tutorials/whatever) would be useful, if you have the interest/time. :)

I will be around for a bit.
Started work on an updater - hooked 17 classes and 41 fields so far.

Iamadam, can we have a svn link to watch the progress? :)
I am one who wants to learn in these ways :P

-Boom

Well, I did the updater for a few days and then got sick of making it and remembered why I left RS cheating back in the day.
I have hooked ~70 things, and will set up an SVN with it soon.
Might continue work on it intermittently, but no promises.

Please do the svn :)
So the development doesnt stop.