SRL Archive - The Bashing Club / BBQ Pit

It's been noted there seems to have be lot of tension and arguements on the forums lately. I kind of agree with this, but also disagree, because there's a lot of good work being done too. Either way, whatever your opinions are on how things are going, things that could be done better etc, lets hear them. :)

By staff I mean Admins, Mods, Devs, and perhaps SSRL if anyone has a big issue agaisnt them/the concept.

Personal attacks aren't going to be deleted but try to be nice, and try to make your rants constructive and aimed at the forum as a whole so that we can benefit the most from them, and therefore make the forum and community benefit the most.

Hopefully this thread won't get too much attention. :p

To be honest I think the forum has hardly ever been so peaceful - aside from cstrike leaving with a bang. :)
We're all really just happily working on SRL/Scripts/Life/Hobbies… No people fighting because they currently can't stand each other, etc.

From: Wizzup?
To be honest I think the forum has hardly ever been so peaceful - aside from cstrike leaving with a bang. :)
We're all really just happily working on SRL/Scripts/Life/Hobbies… No people fighting because they currently can't stand each other, etc.

*mega cough* Feroc1ty ?

From: Dervish
*mega cough* Feroc1ty ?

You should stop smoking, helps the bad cough.

From: Dervish
*mega cough* Feroc1ty ?

Imho, he's behaving much better than he used too. I haven't found a post by him that I misliked

E:

From: Wizzup?
You should stop smoking, helps the bad cough.

xD

From: Wizzup?
You should stop smoking, helps the bad cough.

I sure did not expect that reply… That made me go have a ciggie..

@Zyt3x : no reason to forgive nor forget his past actions in my opinion.

From: Wizzup?
aside from cstrike leaving with a bang. :)

I havn't been active, what happened? :)
Also, I think there is more tension between "normal" users than staff.

From: Dervish
@Zyt3x : no reason to forgive nor forget his past actions in my opinion.

My past was forgiven and forgotten? And in my opinion, I made a much worse mistake.

From: Wizzup?
You should stop smoking, helps the bad cough.

Made me laugh.

From: Frement
My past was forgiven and forgotten? And in my opinion, I made a much worse mistake.

This is going to sound like a personal attack on you, but it's not. I believe that someone who is so-called 'permanently' banned should be permanently banned, whether they have changed or not. What I've seen on this forum is that if someone who gets banned waits a while, says they've changed, and says sorry, they'll get let back in. My opinion is that this shouldn't happen. Frement, honestly, I think you should have been banned as soon it was found that you are MoB. Might sound harsh, but it's my opinion. People being allowed back after being permanently banned is probably the thing which annoys me the most.

From: Frement
My past was forgiven and forgotten? And in my opinion, I made a much worse mistake.

You are wrong Mage of Begu, you are forever a scammer in my eyes.

As r1ch said, you shouldn't be here, you should be banned.

I disagree.. If someone has changed, then I'll change my opinion about them too.
Frement is a really nice guy in my eyes :)

Almost 3 years isn't a while is it? I think 3 years can make very big changes in a person, also theres the aging process.

EDIT: But this isn't about me, and we have discussed this in another thread, so lets get back to topic :)

i dislike the quantity of new threads that are being created because many of them imo dont have much quality.

From: Wizzup?
You should stop smoking, helps the bad cough.

wow, that was a bit too harsh….

/offtopic

i think the forum is alright at the moment, just a little bit more activity would be nice :D!

I wasn't talking about you in particular Frement, it just happened that you had posted in the thread. What I'm mainly referring to is the way the staff just let people who are permanently banned back in.

But like tickyy said we need more activity and letting poeple back in helps a bit

From: Frement
Almost 3 years isn't a while is it? I think 3 years can make very big changes in a person, also theres the aging process.

EDIT: But this isn't about me, and we have discussed this in another thread, so lets get back to topic :)

Don't know if anyone here watches The Apprentice, but one of the guys who recently left made a big point about how changes happen far faster at a younger age. For example, if you said that you made a big mistake when you were 11, and now you're 14, it seems perfectly acceptable, because it's a long period of time relative to your age. If you're 37, and claim you made a mistake at 34, people are still going to think you're the same person. And I agree to an extent.

I wasn't really (at all) a part of this forum back when it all happened, but I wouldn't have said you're the same person as who I've read about. Just don't make the same mistake at 34 :p

And the staff make this forum what it is, so I have no problem with them (generally prefer higher ranked members due to maturity, generally). Yeah I'm a brown noser.

I've voiced my opinions on these matters on higher boards, if people would like to read them feel free.

My concerns do not belong completely in the public.

Also.. SSRL/Developers are not staff last I checked..?

From: Nava2
Also.. SSRL/Developers are not staff last I checked..?

In this thread it is :p

Just thought I'd point out: agaisnt -> against – Title

No way, SRL is pretty peaceful. Yes we do have a few users that caused a stir-up, but everything is pretty good. I mean you should see Rsbot…

From: kingarabian
No way, SRL is pretty peaceful. Yes we do have a few users that caused a stir-up, but everything is pretty good. I mean you should see Rsbot…

So true :)

RsBot is a flame war. I enjoy the community here. Never really flame or complain but if I do its through negative rep.

Well, Sir R. Magician is a bit psychotic, but I suppose everything ELSE is okay :D

This forum has order and law. I like it here. Even though SRL stopped offering much like it had back then, its still by far the most respectful Runescape cheating community out there.

This exact thing happened with the last thread. No one posted things pertaining to the topic, only why they thought that the forum was great and such.

Who's Mage of Begu? I thought he was gone? Banned long time ago?

Frement: Cheers for all the stuff you've done around the forums lately, it's really been positivie contributions for a long time now. You are a great example of an SRL Member.

~RM

From: Sir R. Magician
Who's Mage of Begu?

Me.

From: Sir R. Magician
I thought he was gone?

Yes, hes gone.

From: Sir R. Magician
Banned long time ago?

True also.

These forums are very calm for the most part, so when shit gets rough I think you guys overreact.

Personally I haven't had a problem with a single person in the community.

I am quite pleased with staff. =] Occasionally I disagree with decisions or attitude, but that is not always bad. I really do like it here because of the community.

From: Feroc1ty
Personally I haven't had a problem with a single person in the community.

Not trying to start a flame war, but I beg to differ.

From: Rich
Not trying to start a flame war, but I beg to differ.

So you've had trouble with people?

And Feroc1ty was one of them? Well, he seems to have no strife with you. Might there be miscommunication?

Cus words and thoughts don't always add up….

~RM

From: Rich
Not trying to start a flame war, but I beg to differ.

As I am human, I can only speak for myself… :norris:

From: Feroc1ty
As I am human, I can only speak for myself… :norris:

Shotgun.

~RM

From: Rich
Not trying to start a flame war, but I beg to differ.

Big agree with this one.

Okay guys, first off, everyone has some kind of pent up dick in their ass. Not talking about the staff, mainly the SRL Members as it seems. Every other *rank* seems to be doing well with each other, but the members seem to be getting in a heap of shit with everyone. This is NOT the thread to do so. Make a thread titled "Hate on each other and never solve the conflict" or "bitch about rules being rules" and then do so on those threads. Else leave this one alone.

On topic:
Since I know the staff will accept my opinion without getting pissed, I'll single people out, because I don't feel right saying "The staff have been getting a little rowdy lately"
Other than Ben's rant at CStrike and his resulting attitude towards anyone mentioning reflection for a week or so, I think it has been very good from the Staff. Maybe RM was unhappy about a couple people being dumb,etc but I haven't gotten unhappy with the staffers being blatantly unpleasant to the general public :)

From: 3Garrett3
Maybe RM was unhappy about a couple people being dumb,etc

Lol!

Nice post :p and Nah, I don't think any of use would take it too hard,, ;)

~RM

I have a complaint.

I will have registered for these forums for 4 years this February. That's a long time. I have been on and off very active in the community, and like to think I overall helped the community in that time. I have been an SRL member since 2 weeks after joining the forums, and an SSRL member since the day that the group was created. I used to love this place so much I would actually dream of being staff on it.

Despite all that, a few months ago, I was banned like a leecher that just registered. without warning, and without reason (it says reason banned was "Zoh" which I don't even know what that means).


I really am an honest person which is why this bothers me… I don't want to ever scam anyone. I have made thousands selling runescape items and gold in my days without one complaint of scamming (on sythe at least). People trusted me with hundreds every day, and I never had to give them their gold. But I did.

I am clearly not trying to scam Charmz and Claw. At the very least, please admit that it's not a black and white issue that I owe them anything. It wasn't like with Coh3n where I said I would sell money off the account and pay him back.


All I really want is a fair trial. I already pleaded my side of the case, The Claw and Charmz pleaded theirs, and I am working on paying back Coh3n because I clearly owe him money. If the conclusion of that trial were to be that I owe The Claw and/or Charmz money, then can I at least be given the option of paying them back to keep my forum account instead of blindly banning me without even a clear reason?


I wish I didn't have to post this publicly, because I really don't care for the drama, but this was the best place I could think to post.

Thanks for reading…

From: Killler
I have a complaint.

I will have registered for these forums for 4 years this February. That's a long time. I have been on and off very active in the community, and like to think I overall helped the community in that time. I have been an SRL member since 2 weeks after joining the forums, and an SSRL member since the day that the group was created. I used to love this place so much I would actually dream of being staff on it.

Despite all that, a few months ago, I was banned like a leecher that just registered. without warning, and without reason (it says reason banned was "Zoh" which I don't even know what that means).


I really am an honest person which is why this bothers me… I don't want to ever scam anyone. I have made thousands selling runescape items and gold in my days without one complaint of scamming (on sythe at least). People trusted me with hundreds every day, and I never had to give them their gold. But I did.

I am clearly not trying to scam Charmz and Claw. At the very least, please admit that it's not a black and white issue that I owe them anything. It wasn't like with Coh3n where I said I would sell money off the account and pay him back.


All I really want is a fair trial. I already pleaded my side of the case, The Claw and Charmz pleaded theirs, and I am working on paying back Coh3n because I clearly owe him money. If the conclusion of that trial were to be that I owe The Claw and/or Charmz money, then can I at least be given the option of paying them back to keep my forum account instead of blindly banning me without even a clear reason?


I wish I didn't have to post this publicly, because I really don't care for the drama, but this was the best place I could think to post.

Thanks for reading…

Hi JAD, you were banned for a reason. Duh?

From: Nava2
Hi JAD, you were banned for a reason. Duh?

Did you read my post?

Of course I was banned for a reason; there's a reason for everything. But I wasn't given the reason.

You have been banned for the following reason: "Zoh" is what it says.


If the conclusion was that I owe Charmz and/or Claw money then shouldn't that result in me needing to pay them back, not a ban without reason? If it was concluded I owed them the money and I didn't pay them back then you could say the reason I was banned was for scamming, but I was never told I had to and I still don't believe I owe either of them anything for reasons stated in the thread.

From: Killler
I have a complaint.

I will have registered for these forums for 4 years this February. That's a long time. I have been on and off very active in the community, and like to think I overall helped the community in that time. I have been an SRL member since 2 weeks after joining the forums, and an SSRL member since the day that the group was created. I used to love this place so much I would actually dream of being staff on it.

Despite all that, a few months ago, I was banned like a leecher that just registered. without warning, and without reason (it says reason banned was "Zoh" which I don't even know what that means).


I really am an honest person which is why this bothers me… I don't want to ever scam anyone. I have made thousands selling runescape items and gold in my days without one complaint of scamming (on sythe at least). People trusted me with hundreds every day, and I never had to give them their gold. But I did.

I am clearly not trying to scam Charmz and Claw. At the very least, please admit that it's not a black and white issue that I owe them anything. It wasn't like with Coh3n where I said I would sell money off the account and pay him back.


All I really want is a fair trial. I already pleaded my side of the case, The Claw and Charmz pleaded theirs, and I am working on paying back Coh3n because I clearly owe him money. If the conclusion of that trial were to be that I owe The Claw and/or Charmz money, then can I at least be given the option of paying them back to keep my forum account instead of blindly banning me without even a clear reason?


I wish I didn't have to post this publicly, because I really don't care for the drama, but this was the best place I could think to post.

Thanks for reading…

People who work to gain others people's trust only to abuse it is not contributing no matter how much they did to gain that trust. You benefited real life money and pixels from less than surmountable 'services'. Whether or not you were even planning on scamming anyone from the start isn't even an essential factor in your ban. "Without warning and without reason" is complete bullshit. You were given a very large amount of time to respond to multiple -rather - important contacts people tried to make with you. People that trusted you, not because of you as a person, but as the reputation of trustable people in this community. Judging from your obvious lack of maturity in dealing with those who did contact you and your other actions and attitude it makes it obvious the true nature of the matter.

Seriously it would of taken you almost no time to say some formal/mature/believable or something at all, which you failed to do.

You were given more than 'a fair trial' for things, honestly, you should of never even been allowed to do in the first place (i.e. borrow mass amount of money with no real 'catch') and the fact of the matter is either way you ignored how much of an elaborate scam it really was.

I think you coming back here and saying who you are and what you did again was a bad idea, the damage you did to yourself and your reputation are irreversible, even with a unban, even with the consent of those you scammed. No one would trust you, so why even bother?

Your best chance is to make a new account without anyone knowing, why try and prove your innocence, why try and prove the impossible?

It's a waste of time, bro.

I want to complain about Feroc1ty and the favor given to him by Rasta Magician… Pure stupidity in my opinion.

Because of one post, he should suddenly get from deep negative rep to +10, which basically means, because of one post and the opinion of ONE person who thinks he's law, he should get more rep than 60% of SRL's community ?

Is it me or is that pretty goddamn unfair ?

RM : the COMMUNITY decided that Feroc1ty should have -rep, and I find it to be power abuse to raise it to +10.

@people thinking rep has no use, Wizzup? has clearly stated that reputation points do have an use, but has not specified which one.

From: Killler
Did you read my post?

Of course I was banned for a reason; there's a reason for everything. But I wasn't given the reason.

You have been banned for the following reason: "Zoh" is what it says.


If the conclusion was that I owe Charmz and/or Claw money then shouldn't that result in me needing to pay them back, not a ban without reason? If it was concluded I owed them the money and I didn't pay them back then you could say the reason I was banned was for scamming, but I was never told I had to and I still don't believe I owe either of them anything for reasons stated in the thread.

Whether or not you meant to scam us, you still owe a number of people amounts of money. Regardless of how you word it, lots of us are out of pocket because of you. Looks like free trading is coming back, so I guess if you pay us all back you can be unbanned. You promised to pay me back if you lost me money (literally said "I promise"), I assume you said the same thing to others.

But then, you start claiming you're in the right and don't owe anyone else apart from coh3n, and basically that you didn't screw up. Which meant to me, that you wouldn't be paying anyone else back.

Could someone please tell us more about how and why JAD were banned? We that aren't SSRL doesn't know anything about it…..

Its a long twisted story, not unlike when an investment company goes under and loses everyone's money.

From: Dervish
I want to complain about Feroc1ty and the favor given to him by Rasta Magician… Pure stupidity in my opinion.

Because of one post, he should suddenly get from deep negative rep to +10, which basically means, because of one post and the opinion of ONE person who thinks he's law, he should get more rep than 60% of SRL's community ?

Is it me or is that pretty goddamn unfair ?

RM : the COMMUNITY decided that Feroc1ty should have -rep, and I find it to be power abuse to raise it to +10.

@people thinking rep has no use, Wizzup? has clearly stated that reputation points do have an use, but has not specified which one.

Okay, first of all, I think that Feroc1ty can be a dick at times as well. But listen up.

Yes, he had negative rep. RM also gave him 10 rep points. Maybe you've been ignoring this fact the whole time, but it's been mentioned multiple times that new users start out with 10 rep. RM said it, someone else said it. Learn to fucking read before you ignorantly insult someone.

I'll also question your sources on 60% of the community because I think that you're throwing numbers out of your ass on this one. The community as a WHOLE decided to de-rep him for bad posts. The community as a WHOLE has not been denied the access to that. I have neg repped him once and positive repped him once, as I have seen a very negative post and a very positive post. Last that I checked, he was still in the green (positive) rep. Perhaps you should see this as a sign that NOBODY agrees with your blatant arrogance, other than maybe R1ch who told Frement that he should still be banned after 4 years.

Just my 0.02

I must say Feroc1ty's attitude changed positively after the reputation boost. Which surprised me, but now I am sure RM did the right thing. Don't fight evil with evil, man.

From: 3Garrett3
Okay, first of all, I think that Feroc1ty can be a dick at times as well. But listen up.

Yes, he had negative rep. RM also gave him 10 rep points. Maybe you've been ignoring this fact the whole time, but it's been mentioned multiple times that new users start out with 10 rep. RM said it, someone else said it. Learn to fucking read before you ignorantly insult someone.

I'll also question your sources on 60% of the community because I think that you're throwing numbers out of your ass on this one. The community as a WHOLE decided to de-rep him for bad posts. The community as a WHOLE has not been denied the access to that. I have neg repped him once and positive repped him once, as I have seen a very negative post and a very positive post. Last that I checked, he was still in the green (positive) rep. Perhaps you should see this as a sign that NOBODY agrees with your blatant arrogance, other than maybe R1ch who told Frement that he should still be banned after 4 years.

Just my 0.02

He had his chance with the 10+ starting rep (which is a bloody stupid starting number by the way), he went down to -39 ( I think ) by the community's decision. But some random person on the administrative board named Rasta Magician decided he was more important than the community itself and just randomly gave him 49 reputation points !

Perfectly normal, eh ?

Well if the community as a whole isn't denied access to +rep and -rep, then put him back to his bloody -39 rep ! They represent his personality perfectly anyways !

He made 2 accounts after his ban : Feroc2ty, Wezy (I think), he insulted people at random (source links incoming), he is just amazingly arrogant, agressive and hating for no reason..

Oh by the way, suddenly, after the rep gift towards Feroc1ty, some of his negative posts and threads were deleted ! Wow, now that looks like hiding information and history for the rest of the community to me. :rolleyes:

OH WAIT ! THERE IS A REASON FOR HIS ACTIONS !!!

That's right ! I almost forgot ! He wasn't educated in the same way as we other, more civilized people have been !

Thats right, that justifies everything.
_____

What Frement did doesn't belong in this topic, however his great contribution to SRL and more got him to be forgiven.
_____

I agree for the most part with the Administrators' decision here at SRL, but some, are just plain idiotic.
_____

Posts by Feroc1ty showing his, excuse me for this, plain shitty attitude :

Oh ! He really did change after the rep gift didn't he ? :rolleyes:
http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60936

"Ugly cunt", pretty nice language imo, well civilised and showing of his personality, again !
http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?p=659462#post659462
-Multiple posts in that thread show his true self.

One of his multiple failed membership appliances, they show his care for SRL scripting and for the users of his script…
http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53586

Here, my personal little issue with him. His agressivity is … amazing :blink:
http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59606

…and the list goes on !

@Wizzup? : did it really ? http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60936

Dervish… It's called "To give people a second chance". Please stop this ignorance and grow up.
If Feroc1ty blows this second chance then he'll be gone.

From: Dervish
@Wizzup? : did it really ? http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60936

Yes, it did.

From: Zyt3x
Could someone please tell us more about how and why JAD were banned? We that aren't SSRL doesn't know anything about it…..

I think it is still to do with the Easter Egg.
JAD said to them that he wanted to make money with it going up, so they let him buy them on their accounts, and the "investment" went the wrong way.

AFAIK.

From: 3Garrett3
Perhaps you should see this as a sign that NOBODY agrees with your blatant arrogance, other than maybe R1ch who told Frement that he should still be banned after 4 years.

If you're going to refer to me, get my name right.

From: Zyt3x
Could someone please tell us more about how and why JAD were banned? We that aren't SSRL doesn't know anything about it…..

Pretty sure everyone knows all about that.

Hi JAD, new accounts only result in an infraction, as with coming back from a ban. You could make an account called "JAD2" and be pretty well in the clear (besides possibly 2 infractions that'll expire after a bit)

From: Rich
If you're going to refer to me, get my name right.

You got your name changed some months ago.. It doesn't matter if ppl call you R1ch or Rich because other people understand who they are referring to anyways..
People are writing my name like "Zytex" all the time

From: IceFire908
Pretty sure everyone knows all about that.

The only info I've read about it is "He got banned for scamming staff members"

From: Zyt3x


The only info I've read about it is "He got banned for scamming staff members"

Could of sworn it was in Black Market, guess not.

From: Dervish
*Snip*

Yes, you don't know what his reputation was at before, so don't make it up. You have to cite your sources or receive a mark of zero on your report. To be serious though, I'm quite likened to not believe your numbers, based on the rest of the thread (I'll dissect it all in good time). I'm sure you've seen the explanations of RM giving him a boost. This was all after his application had been rejected, and you are pulling examples from before he was rejected as a member. We are arguing that after he was rejected, he started being LESS OF A DICK

Now, I need to organize these points in reference to your list of points.

1. @PointAboutRM - RM did not simply decide that he was better than the community. You cannot pretend to understand what goes on in the Staff forums. It's been known for a long time that they argue and tell each other off in the secret forums and I'm willing to believe that he had at least discussed it with the other members of the Staff before he made the decision and upped the rep. Also, you may be forgetting that HE IS THE STAFF. He technically is more than you and as such, his opinion is likely more right than yours. The Staff have proven themselves to be good at making decisions, and obviously believe that his decision was right, because Feroc1ty has not been given negative rep (back to his original rep). So yes, to agree with you, it is perfectly normal that a Staff decision has been made and is not wrong.
2. @RepRant - Yes, the entire community is allowed to rep him as they see fit. He has been given a fresh slate to receive rep on. I already stated that I gave him a negative rep (when he told Frement off) and a positive rep for a good post which he had made. If you see him make a bad post, then you are more than welcome to give negative rep. This is true for the entire community, but as you see he has not been lowered into the negative reputation. Maybe you should take this by its face value and realize that nobody except you believes that he is being a large dick anymore.
3. @DeletedPosts - Anyone has the right to delete their posts. I could delete all of the posts that make me look like a dick, and I'd look like a great guy. I'd probably be missing a lot of posts, but I don't really care. Point is that you can't prove that any of the Staff have been deleting his posts, unless you get physical evidence. Provide me with it and I'll admit you're right. Either way, the point of SRL isn't to wander around de-repping people for the things that they've done a year or two ago. You should know that.
4. @Education - I sure as hell wasn't educated to believe any of the bullshit that you're pulling out of nowhere. I believe what is presented to me, and if you really have evidence that Feroc1ty was bread to be a dick head by his parents, then I'll believe it. I've stated before that your sources are pretty sketchy and don't really convince me of anything.
5. @ListOfShit - Just so we all agree, the date of rejection for Feroc1ty's application is 12-02-2010, 06:11 PM . The date that Feroc1ty's rep was *cleansed* 12-08-2010, 04:02 PM
• @ChristmasMoneyOne - I gave negative rep for this thread, because he was being an outright dick head. This was the one example that I would agree with you on.
• @PerfectBotThread - This was before his app was rejected, and hence has no place in an argument on whether or not his attitude has improved since his rep has been added to.
• @BreakupShit - This has entirely no argumental value because of the date.

So basically you have one point, one example of him being a bad guy. If that's all you can muster than I'm pretty sure you should admit you're wrong..

Ps- Sorry for the late response I had almost all of it typed up but then my friend came and picked me up.

E:

From: Zyt3x
You got your name changed some months ago.. It doesn't matter if ppl call you R1ch or Rich because other people understand who they are referring to anyways..
People are writing my name like "Zytex" all the time

@ *Rich* - This^. I've been gone for a while, just got back, simmer. I'm sure you've spelled my name wrong (Garret, Garett, Garet). Shit happens.

From: 3Garrett3
Yes, you don't know what his reputation was at before, so don't make it up. You have to cite your sources or receive a mark of zero on your report. To be serious though, I'm quite likened to not believe your numbers, based on the rest of the thread (I'll dissect it all in good time). I'm sure you've seen the explanations of RM giving him a boost. This was all after his application had been rejected, and you are pulling examples from before he was rejected as a member. We are arguing that after he was rejected, he started being LESS OF A DICK

Now, I need to organize these points in reference to your list of points.

1. @PointAboutRM - RM did not simply decide that he was better than the community. You cannot pretend to understand what goes on in the Staff forums. It's been known for a long time that they argue and tell each other off in the secret forums and I'm willing to believe that he had at least discussed it with the other members of the Staff before he made the decision and upped the rep. Also, you may be forgetting that HE IS THE STAFF. He technically is more than you and as such, his opinion is likely more right than yours. The Staff have proven themselves to be good at making decisions, and obviously believe that his decision was right, because Feroc1ty has not been given negative rep (back to his original rep). So yes, to agree with you, it is perfectly normal that a Staff decision has been made and is not wrong.
2. @RepRant - Yes, the entire community is allowed to rep him as they see fit. He has been given a fresh slate to receive rep on. I already stated that I gave him a negative rep (when he told Frement off) and a positive rep for a good post which he had made. If you see him make a bad post, then you are more than welcome to give negative rep. This is true for the entire community, but as you see he has not been lowered into the negative reputation. Maybe you should take this by its face value and realize that nobody except you believes that he is being a large dick anymore.
3. @DeletedPosts - Anyone has the right to delete their posts. I could delete all of the posts that make me look like a dick, and I'd look like a great guy. I'd probably be missing a lot of posts, but I don't really care. Point is that you can't prove that any of the Staff have been deleting his posts, unless you get physical evidence. Provide me with it and I'll admit you're right. Either way, the point of SRL isn't to wander around de-repping people for the things that they've done a year or two ago. You should know that.
4. @Education - I sure as hell wasn't educated to believe any of the bullshit that you're pulling out of nowhere. I believe what is presented to me, and if you really have evidence that Feroc1ty was bread to be a dick head by his parents, then I'll believe it. I've stated before that your sources are pretty sketchy and don't really convince me of anything.
5. @ListOfShit - Just so we all agree, the date of rejection for Feroc1ty's application is 12-02-2010, 06:11 PM . The date that Feroc1ty's rep was *cleansed* 12-08-2010, 04:02 PM
• @ChristmasMoneyOne - I gave negative rep for this thread, because he was being an outright dick head. This was the one example that I would agree with you on.
• @PerfectBotThread - This was before his app was rejected, and hence has no place in an argument on whether or not his attitude has improved since his rep has been added to.
• @BreakupShit - This has entirely no argumental value because of the date.

So basically you have one point, one example of him being a bad guy. If that's all you can muster than I'm pretty sure you should admit you're wrong..

Ps- Sorry for the late response I had almost all of it typed up but then my friend came and picked me up.

E:


@ *Rich* - This^. I've been gone for a while, just got back, simmer. I'm sure you've spelled my name wrong (Garret, Garett, Garet). Shit happens.

1: His reputation was of -39, so stop saying that I "pulled that out of my ass".

2: I'm just saying he is a dick, not that he changed or didn't after his application denial, although I'm more on the side that he did not.

3: Because a person is higher placed than I, he is right and I am not ? Now that is discussable.

4:

He has been given a fresh slate to receive rep on.

–> I do not find that correct, that's my point, my main idea, the thesis of my argument.

5: If the whole community is allowed to rep his posts, may it be + or -, should one person be allowed to override that decision ?

6: I don't beleive a normal member can delete a whole thread ? Especially knowing the fact that he probably didn't want to delete that thread knowing he had his script feedback &more on it ?

7: Education. Feroc1ty himself stated that he wasn't educated in the same manner as we were, that should not justify his crappy attitude, may it have been past or present.

8: As stated earlier, I do not give a damn about the fact that it was before or after his application denial, nor his reputation cleansing. What I mean is that he has been a dick, and still is for some reason (Christmas Money Thread ?)

9: His attitude toward my non-agressive and, what seems to me, reasonable post about his obvious mistake or confusion (may it have been mine ?) still should not be forgotten, wether he has changed or not, I don't care, he has been a total goddamn asshole towards alot of people on these forums and I will not forgive nor forget that.

Feroc1ty will have to do an amazing effort in order to get my forgiving.

Maybe he doesn't want to, maybe he does. But a negative vote can make a huge difference on an applicatio- OH WAIT !

I said "close this," as in I don't give a fuck as in if I get SRL member or not, so your little "I was gonna… but now that you…" isn't really gonna change anyone's opinion.

From: Dervish
1: His reputation was of -39, so stop saying that I "pulled that out of my ass".

2: I'm just saying he is a dick, not that he changed or didn't after his application denial, although I'm more on the side that he did not.

3: Because a person is higher placed than I, he is right and I am not ? Now that is discussable.

4:
–> I do not find that correct, that's my point, my main idea, the thesis of my argument.

5: If the whole community is allowed to rep his posts, may it be + or -, should one person be allowed to override that decision ?

6: I don't beleive a normal member can delete a whole thread ? Especially knowing the fact that he probably didn't want to delete that thread knowing he had his script feedback &more on it ?

7: Education. Feroc1ty himself stated that he wasn't educated in the same manner as we were, that should not justify his crappy attitude, may it have been past or present.

8: As stated earlier, I do not give a damn about the fact that it was before or after his application denial, nor his reputation cleansing. What I mean is that he has been a dick, and still is for some reason (Christmas Money Thread ?)

9: His attitude toward my non-agressive and, what seems to me, reasonable post about his obvious mistake or confusion (may it have been mine ?) still should not be forgotten, wether he has changed or not, I don't care, he has been a total goddamn asshole towards alot of people on these forums and I will not forgive nor forget that.

Feroc1ty will have to do an amazing effort in order to get my forgiving.

Maybe he doesn't want to, maybe he does. But a negative vote can make a huge difference on an applicatio- OH WAIT !

1. Source?
2. Maybe you don't understand. You're arguing that he hasn't changed. Everyone is saying that he has (for the most part) gotten marginally better. Your one example of him being a dick since the point of 'cleansing' (RM's word not mine) was one that we all agree on. However, he has had a bunch of other good posts - most likely all of the other posts that you didn't use as examples of his poor behavior. Then your stance changes to that of "I'm just saying he's a dick in general" !? Yes, he was a dick before, I'm not arguing that. He doesn't give a shit if people think that. He's getting better
3. I said that the opinion of the staff is generally supported by the other staff members and that the opinions of the Staff as a whole are generally the correct decisions for the boards. If you wish to discuss it, then state some points on it.
4. At least we understand what you're arguing against. Which isn't even arguing against me, or Wizzup?. You're arguing against RM and trying to use those points against me when I say that he's changed.
5. I'll say it again. RM most likely did not make the decision himself. If he did, the decision is obviously supported by the majority of the Staff members, because Feroc1ty was not revoked of this new-found reputation.
6. Depends on what thread you're talking about. I can delete all of my own threads, all of my own posts. If you create a thread, you may delete it by deleting your first post on the thread.
7. This is going to end up being a debate over culture, likely leading to religion, so fuck this point.
8. He was a dick in two posts. There have been many more since then which are not bad.
9. This is just another example of what you seem to believe that the rules are the rules and never will be broken, not even by those who make the rules. Not even when the reasoning for breaking the rules is extremely understandable.
10. Yes he was a dick on his application. Not arguing that point, so why even bring it up as an argument. I'm saying he's better since that so its not worth agreeing that it was bad before then…

From: 3Garrett3

1. Source?
2. Maybe you don't understand. You're arguing that he hasn't changed. Everyone is saying that he has (for the most part) gotten marginally better. Your one example of him being a dick since the point of 'cleansing' (RM's word not mine) was one that we all agree on. However, he has had a bunch of other good posts - most likely all of the other posts that you didn't use as examples of his poor behavior. Then your stance changes to that of "I'm just saying he's a dick in general" !? Yes, he was a dick before, I'm not arguing that. He doesn't give a shit if people think that. He's getting better
3. I said that the opinion of the staff is generally supported by the other staff members and that the opinions of the Staff as a whole are generally the correct decisions for the boards. If you wish to discuss it, then state some points on it.
4. At least we understand what you're arguing against. Which isn't even arguing against me, or Wizzup?. You're arguing against RM and trying to use those points against me when I say that he's changed.
5. I'll say it again. RM most likely did not make the decision himself. If he did, the decision is obviously supported by the majority of the Staff members, because Feroc1ty was not revoked of this new-found reputation.
6. Depends on what thread you're talking about. I can delete all of my own threads, all of my own posts. If you create a thread, you may delete it by deleting your first post on the thread.
7. This is going to end up being a debate over culture, likely leading to religion, so fuck this point.
8. He was a dick in two posts. There have been many more since then which are not bad.
9. This is just another example of what you seem to believe that the rules are the rules and never will be broken, not even by those who make the rules. Not even when the reasoning for breaking the rules is extremely understandable.
10. Yes he was a dick on his application. Not arguing that point, so why even bring it up as an argument. I'm saying he's better since that so its not worth agreeing that it was bad before then…

1: http://villavu.com/forum/showpost.php?p=756871&postcount=1

2: I'm not even looking to argue, I'm saying he was a dick before, he has proven to not have changed after his application (Christmas money thread), and that I won't ever vote yes on his application.

3: We're, or is it only I (?), are talking about the fact that you said that because RM is staff, he is right and I am not. So administrator > SRL Member. You are correct, Administrator > community in general apparently.

4: [skip]

5: So, he discussed with the staff, which is composed of a minor part of the SRL community to override the whole community's decision ? How about asking at least the SRL members ? No, of course not. Administrators have all the rights don't they ? Rich was right in his thread about staff being over the rules.

6: Well I didn't know you could delete a thread by deleting the first post, last time I checked, I couldn't do anything at all with my posts or my threads..

7: How is it about culture ? I'm just proving you wrong, stating that Feroc1ty himself admitted having received a, what appears to be, shitty education.

8: How easy can it be to fool people..

9: There was apparently no punition following his attitude. Well no punition which was severe enough to prevent him from doing more harm.

10: @8.

If RM had asked a bigger part of the community, I'm sure his reputation wouldn't have been cleansed and he wouldn't have seized the chance to change or act different..

You are a fool I'm afraid, you beleive he has changed despite the fact that some posts he make prove he hasn't (christmas thread once more).

From: Dervish
1: http://villavu.com/forum/showpost.php?p=756871&postcount=1

2: I'm not even looking to argue, I'm saying he was a dick before, he has proven to not have changed after his application (Christmas money thread), and that I won't ever vote yes on his application.

3: We're, or is it only I (?), are talking about the fact that you said that because RM is staff, he is right and I am not. So administrator > SRL Member. You are correct, Administrator > community in general apparently.

4: [skip]

5: So, he discussed with the staff, which is composed of a minor part of the SRL community to override the whole community's decision ? How about asking at least the SRL members ? No, of course not. Administrators have all the rights don't they ? Rich was right in his thread about staff being over the rules.

6: Well I didn't know you could delete a thread by deleting the first post, last time I checked, I couldn't do anything at all with my posts or my threads..

7: How is it about culture ? I'm just proving you wrong, stating that Feroc1ty himself admitted having received a, what appears to be, shitty education.

8: How easy can it be to fool people..

9: There was apparently no punition following his attitude. Well no punition which was severe enough to prevent him from doing more harm.

10: @8.

If RM had asked a bigger part of the community, I'm sure his reputation wouldn't have been cleansed and he wouldn't have seized the chance to change or act different..

You are a fool I'm afraid, you beleive he has changed despite the fact that some posts he make prove he hasn't (christmas thread once more).

1. Okay, you're correct.
2. Opinions are opinions I guess. I think he's at least acting better, hence I don't care what he's like deep down.
3. Staff decisions > one SRL member decision. I think the cleanse is for the better. Staff is Moderators + Admins.
5. Moderators and Admins make up a large portion of intelligent members in the community. SSRL + could have been involved and you would not know. If you did then you're admitting to receiving leaked information, hence in trouble (breaking the rules is forever, remember). Moderators and Admins make up nearly 100% of the people who know the inner workings of the forums to a core. Maybe they know something that you don't, you can't just assume that a forum runs as the surface shows.
6. Last I checked, yes.
7. From your opinion he received a terrible education. From mine, there is nothing wrong with it. From his, there isn't anything wrong with it. It comes down to a matter of perspective, which would lead us down the road of culture if we were to continue arguing this.
8. Okay. First off, I could be the biggest dick head in the world, scheming to scam 100s of accounts from nubs. I'm sure you never thought of that. The internet is a sketchy place. Anyone could be anything, all you need to do is type stuff up. I don't care if he hasn't changed on the inside, but if he's not being a dick on our forums, I'm okay with it. He could be looking at child porn and illegally selling meth on the side as a business, I don't care as long as he's being nice here.
9. He was infracted multiple times, and temp banned (iirc). It was discussed on a previous thread, look in the members section somewhere.

You have no way of proving RM only asked a small group. See point 5.

Also, a list of average posts. I would expect posts like these from anyone. Since you posted two posts that were bad, I'd figure I'd find some which show he isn't being a dick anymore.

http://villavu.com/forum/showpost.php?p=761123&postcount=22
http://villavu.com/forum/showpost.php?p=760962&postcount=2
http://villavu.com/forum/showpost.php?p=760215&postcount=4
http://villavu.com/forum/showpost.php?p=760373&postcount=10
http://villavu.com/forum/showpost.php?p=760868&postcount=67
http://villavu.com/forum/showpost.php?p=760612&postcount=29

From: 3Garrett3
1. Okay, you're correct.
2. Opinions are opinions I guess. I think he's at least acting better, hence I don't care what he's like deep down.
3. Staff decisions > one SRL member decision. I think the cleanse is for the better. Staff is Moderators + Admins.
5. Moderators and Admins make up a large portion of intelligent members in the community. SSRL + could have been involved and you would not know. If you did then you're admitting to receiving leaked information, hence in trouble (breaking the rules is forever, remember). Moderators and Admins make up nearly 100% of the people who know the inner workings of the forums to a core. Maybe they know something that you don't, you can't just assume that a forum runs as the surface shows.
6. Last I checked, yes.
7. From your opinion he received a terrible education. From mine, there is nothing wrong with it. From his, there isn't anything wrong with it. It comes down to a matter of perspective, which would lead us down the road of culture if we were to continue arguing this.
8. Okay. First off, I could be the biggest dick head in the world, scheming to scam 100s of accounts from nubs. I'm sure you never thought of that. The internet is a sketchy place. Anyone could be anything, all you need to do is type stuff up. I don't care if he hasn't changed on the inside, but if he's not being a dick on our forums, I'm okay with it. He could be looking at child porn and illegally selling meth on the side as a business, I don't care as long as he's being nice here.
9. He was infracted multiple times, and temp banned (iirc). It was discussed on a previous thread, look in the members section somewhere.

You have no way of proving RM only asked a small group. See point 5.

Also, a list of average posts. I would expect posts like these from anyone. Since you posted two posts that were bad, I'd figure I'd find some which show he isn't being a dick anymore.

http://villavu.com/forum/showpost.php?p=761123&postcount=22
http://villavu.com/forum/showpost.php?p=760962&postcount=2
http://villavu.com/forum/showpost.php?p=760215&postcount=4
http://villavu.com/forum/showpost.php?p=760373&postcount=10
http://villavu.com/forum/showpost.php?p=760868&postcount=67
http://villavu.com/forum/showpost.php?p=760612&postcount=29

I am ending this argument here. You had valid points and so did I.

He has changed, although that won't necessarily change my opinion about him.

Thanks for a good conversation 3Garrett3.

From: Dervish
I am ending this argument here. You had valid points and so did I.

He has changed, although that won't necessarily change my opinion about him.

Thanks for a good conversation 3Garrett3.

Thank you as well. As long as we can have an educated discussion about something, and agree to disagree, I'm good. :)

Back on topic….

Yo' mang dem mods be crazey

Dervish, iirc, you had an account called "Aeon" or something and applied for members and all and everyone thought you were a great new addition, when really it was just you.

I'm not saying this to bash you, I'm just saying that the community/staff give people chances. I know I got a chance I don't really deserve (although some of the reasons I was banned were false, not that it matters), and I'm grateful for it. I'm trying to give back to the community as best I can, as I know I need to show some reasoning for letting me stay. Even if it's just small, half-assed things like lib/pyMML/SPyRL that I work on when I can. I know I haven't made up for anything I've done; not anywhere near. And I never will.

But the point is, the staff seem to want to have contributing members contribute. If they do something bad that isn't so bad that they shan't ever be back (that guy who hacked Fakawi.. uhh.. something knight 707 or something I think, for example), they aren't allowed back. But for people like Kyle (Sex/Da 0wner), Frement (Mage of Begu), me, etc… well.. Kyle has contributed and helped quite a bit.. Frement has helped and contributed quite a bit and isn't doing anything bad now, and I've been trying to help as much as I can. The common factor is that we all still contribute, so I think we're good people to let back, but not to give special privileges unless somehow something's worked out.

That's all.

And I think RM has done a fantastic job. I really don't appreciate that you bash him over one thing.. He has done a lot of good. He's an admin for a reason.

From: i luffs yeww
Dervish, iirc, you had an account called "Aeon" or something and applied for members and all and everyone thought you were a great new addition, when really it was just you.

I'm not saying this to bash you, I'm just saying that the community/staff give people chances. I know I got a chance I don't really deserve (although some of the reasons I was banned were false, not that it matters), and I'm grateful for it. I'm trying to give back to the community as best I can, as I know I need to show some reasoning for letting me stay. Even if it's just small, half-assed things like lib/pyMML/SPyRL that I work on when I can. I know I haven't made up for anything I've done; not anywhere near. And I never will.

But the point is, the staff seem to want to have contributing members contribute. If they do something bad that isn't so bad that they shan't ever be back (that guy who hacked Fakawi.. uhh.. something knight 707 or something I think, for example), they aren't allowed back. But for people like Kyle (Sex/Da 0wner), Frement (Mage of Begu), me, etc… well.. Kyle has contributed and helped quite a bit.. Frement has helped and contributed quite a bit and isn't doing anything bad now, and I've been trying to help as much as I can. The common factor is that we all still contribute, so I think we're good people to let back, but not to give special privileges unless somehow something's worked out.

That's all.

And I think RM has done a fantastic job. I really don't appreciate that you bash him over one thing.. He has done a lot of good. He's an admin for a reason.

Do not worry, I do not take this as a personal attack or anything of the matter, why should I ?

You are correct, Aeon_C was no other but me, and I realise now, that I was far from correct of doing what I did.

Neonknight77 was the one who hacked WT-Fakawi iirc.

I was only given an infraction despite the fact that the offense I commited was worthy of a temporary or permanent ban, yet I do not contribute despite the chance that I have been given… Maybe I should when I got more time.

I agree, RM is a fantastic administrator here at SRL, but that one action of his, was, in my french opinion, wrong. However, I hope that it will change Feroc1ty's way of acting and make him a successful contributor and scripter here at SRL.

@Dervish
In the words of Town about me when I wasn't exactly being smart about my posts, "Do you excrete ignorance or does it just build up?"

From: MylesMadness
@Dervish
In the words of Town about me when I wasn't exactly being smart about my posts, "Do you excrete ignorance or does it just build up?"

I didn't copy that.

:) I'm glad you seemed to have eased up, Dervish. Trust me, I understand. I just don't think that what RM did is worthy of such a heated argument.

Not to say arguing is bad, just.. pick your battles. :)

And I hope you show the staff that not banning you was a worthy choice; that's how I try to be and I've learned a lot thus far.

From: Dervish
I didn't copy that.

After reading the rest of the thread, im glad you kinda eased up a bit, so I retract it.

From: i luffs yeww
Dervish, iirc, you had an account called "Aeon" or something and applied for members and all and everyone thought you were a great new addition, when really it was just you.

I'm not saying this to bash you, I'm just saying that the community/staff give people chances. I know I got a chance I don't really deserve (although some of the reasons I was banned were false, not that it matters), and I'm grateful for it. I'm trying to give back to the community as best I can, as I know I need to show some reasoning for letting me stay. Even if it's just small, half-assed things like lib/pyMML/SPyRL that I work on when I can. I know I haven't made up for anything I've done; not anywhere near. And I never will.

But the point is, the staff seem to want to have contributing members contribute. If they do something bad that isn't so bad that they shan't ever be back (that guy who hacked Fakawi.. uhh.. something knight 707 or something I think, for example), they aren't allowed back. But for people like Kyle (Sex/Da 0wner), Frement (Mage of Begu), me, etc… well.. Kyle has contributed and helped quite a bit.. Frement has helped and contributed quite a bit and isn't doing anything bad now, and I've been trying to help as much as I can. The common factor is that we all still contribute, so I think we're good people to let back, but not to give special privileges unless somehow something's worked out.

That's all.

And I think RM has done a fantastic job. I really don't appreciate that you bash him over one thing.. He has done a lot of good. He's an admin for a reason.

Dont forget about TheManFromChzekc/Iroki/whatever else his name was. :)

Oh yeah. I think Shuttleu was banned before, as well?

But the point is, the people who have came back from bans and been allowed, imo, are deserving of at least the chance to contribute, but maybe not anything else. If they really prove themselves, I see no reason to not allow them to be members+, tbh. But that's up to the staff.

Good job etc.

My, oh my, oh my, oh my. How I have missed this forum D: and my family members.

"A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing." - George Bernard Shaw
We can make mistakes.

“When a man is pushed, tormented, defeated, he has a chance to learn something” - Ralph Waldo Emerson
It will make us grow.

“Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll understand what little chance you have in trying to change others.” - …
If only we can realize what it's like in their eyes.

“All we are saying is give peace a chance.” ~ John Lennon
Then we can give it a chance.

“We are not the same persons this year as last; nor are those we love. It is a happy chance if we, changing, continue to love a changed person.” -Winston Churchill

God I love quotes. Happy Holidays everyone!

From: Heavenguard
We can mistakes.

^ Typo! I think you meant to say We can make mistakes. :P

From: kongking
^ Typo! I think you meant to say We can make mistakes. :P

<3 gracias! My mistake ^^.

Thank you for stepping up for me Garrett .. :)

Dervish, I think you need to get over facts and over feroc1ty. I don't know what kind of love-hate relationship you have but right now it's on the hate side.

Feroc1ty's reputation is above +30, by the community's choice. I left it at +10.


Oh and finally I'll clear up the only thing there is to clear up.

It was my decision. Everyday we all make decisions and the staff trust each other. Sometimes these decisions are made at staff level, sometimes at dev level, sometimes at SSRL, and sometimes at member level. And sometimes they're made on all these levels.

If the staff always had to agree on everything, we'd never get anything done.

Staff is staff because of who they are. We trust each other to make good decisions; And everyone is human.

And I'd say something rude in french now, just because I think you're being a pain in the ass.

I think you need to grow up and get over Feroc1ty. First of all start arguing / bitching about him and then stop bitching about me for having given Feroc1ty a hand.

And finally just shut up cus it annoys me. If Feroc1ty got out of line, I'd be the first one on it so.. just get over it please.


JAD: you've been given a million chances. Stop talking, start doing. Show up with the money, pay back coh3n first etc etc. You know you have friends here, but you just simply disappeared. There's nothing we can do for ghosts. And honestly that story has been so twisted that I don't care what the truth is anymore. If everyone had everything they had started with I'd say that'd be the end of the story………….

~RM

From: Sir R. Magician
Thank you for stepping up for me Garrett .. :)

Dervish, I think you need to get over facts and over feroc1ty. I don't know what kind of love-hate relationship you have but right now it's on the hate side.

Feroc1ty's reputation is above +30, by the community's choice. I left it at +10.


Oh and finally I'll clear up the only thing there is to clear up.

It was my decision. Everyday we all make decisions and the staff trust each other. Sometimes these decisions are made at staff level, sometimes at dev level, sometimes at SSRL, and sometimes at member level. And sometimes they're made on all these levels.

If the staff always had to agree on everything, we'd never get anything done.

Staff is staff because of who they are. We trust each other to make good decisions; And everyone is human.

And I'd say something rude in french now, just because I think you're being a pain in the ass.

I think you need to grow up and get over Feroc1ty. First of all start arguing / bitching about him and then stop bitching about me for having given Feroc1ty a hand.

And finally just shut up cus it annoys me. If Feroc1ty got out of line, I'd be the first one on it so.. just get over it please.


JAD: you've been given a million chances. Stop talking, start doing. Show up with the money, pay back coh3n first etc etc. You know you have friends here, but you just simply disappeared. There's nothing we can do for ghosts. And honestly that story has been so twisted that I don't care what the truth is anymore. If everyone had everything they had started with I'd say that'd be the end of the story………….

~RM

If the reputation is at 30, and you gave him 49 rep, it still should be at -19. :rolleyes:.

I'll stop "bitching" as you describe it, and leave you to your staff business.

Tu sais, tu fais partie de l'administration du site, dis moi ce que tu voulais me dire, je ne peux rien y faire de toute façon ;).

No, Dervish. It should be at 30 as it is atm, because we (people of the community) have given him a second chance.

From: Zyt3x
No, Dervish. It should be at 30 as it is atm, because we (people of the community) have given him a second chance.

I do not want to start this again, but RM clearly stated that it was his decision to give him a second chance, not the staff nor the people of the community..

From: Dervish
I do not want to start this again, but RM clearly stated that it was his decision to give him a second chance, not the staff nor the people of the community..

You're correct, but I didn't say it was someone else's decision either. I too has given Feroc1ty a second chance, and I'm a part of this community.

Now, I don't know what has happened in the past or anything, but you guys seem to be arguing a lot >_<
From what I have seen since I have been here… of what.. 1 hour :D
Is that people here are soooo nice, I used to be part of RSbot and they were awful, people would flame whatever the thread was about, and I am not sure if this is place to say but, I would like to thank: Frement and NCDS for greeting me and helping me on my way straight away :D

-Boom

From: Dynamite
Now, I don't know what has happened in the past or anything, but you guys seem to be arguing a lot >_<
From what I have seen since I have been here… of what.. 1 hour :D
Is that people here are soooo nice, I used to be part of RSbot and they were awful, people would flame whatever the thread was about, and I am not sure if this is place to say but, I would like to thank: Frement and NCDS for greeting me and helping me on my way straight away :D

-Boom

This may not be the place to say it, but I'm sure its appreciated in any case ;).

From: Killler
(…)

Hey, you got me banned for d-bolt duping, too. Lost at least 100m due to that and a nice account.

From: IceFire908
People who work to gain others people's trust only to abuse it is not contributing no matter how much they did to gain that trust. You benefited real life money and pixels from less than surmountable 'services'. Whether or not you were even planning on scamming anyone from the start isn't even an essential factor in your ban. "Without warning and without reason" is complete bullshit. You were given a very large amount of time to respond to multiple -rather - important contacts people tried to make with you. People that trusted you, not because of you as a person, but as the reputation of trustable people in this community. Judging from your obvious lack of maturity in dealing with those who did contact you and your other actions and attitude it makes it obvious the true nature of the matter.

Seriously it would of taken you almost no time to say some formal/mature/believable or something at all, which you failed to do.

You were given more than 'a fair trial' for things, honestly, you should of never even been allowed to do in the first place (i.e. borrow mass amount of money with no real 'catch') and the fact of the matter is either way you ignored how much of an elaborate scam it really was.

I think you coming back here and saying who you are and what you did again was a bad idea, the damage you did to yourself and your reputation are irreversible, even with a unban, even with the consent of those you scammed. No one would trust you, so why even bother?

Your best chance is to make a new account without anyone knowing, why try and prove your innocence, why try and prove the impossible?

It's a waste of time, bro.

You don't know what you're talking about, but you certainly bs'd an intelligent looking post making it seem like you do.

From: The Claw
Whether or not you meant to scam us, you still owe a number of people amounts of money. Regardless of how you word it, lots of us are out of pocket because of you. Looks like free trading is coming back, so I guess if you pay us all back you can be unbanned. You promised to pay me back if you lost me money (literally said "I promise"), I assume you said the same thing to others.

But then, you start claiming you're in the right and don't owe anyone else apart from coh3n, and basically that you didn't screw up. Which meant to me, that you wouldn't be paying anyone else back.

Claw. Can you explain how you are out of pocket because of me? You were the one who panicked and sold the chocolate bars with your easter (which at the time was worth more than a purple partyhat), I didn't do it. That was a terrible deal and lost you a lot of gp, and I am sorry for that. But now I'm supposed to pay for that?

If there was a loss from my merchanting then I would have covered it, as I promised I would. But if you hadn't done anything at all then there would have been no loss (actually, you would have profited largely). It's like if you got on your account, dropped your red partyhat, then said it was my fault. Why would I be responsible?

It doesn't matter if it's my fault or not. You're pissed off because you made that bad deal, and you're a very powerful staff member, so you can blame and punish someone for your lost gp even if they don't deserve that blame, but that isn't going to bring it back. Your gp was not lost from my merchanting; it was lost from your unfortunately stupid decision that I had nothing to do with.

From: Killler
You don't know what you're talking about, but you certainly bs'd an intelligent looking post making it seem like you do.

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

Apparently you making some hollowed one sentence statement is enough for everyone to forgive and trust you again.

Disregard that fact that what you even tried to just say is completely untrue, because there is a huge thread called "All information pertaining to JAD" by _ChARmZ in SSRL, anyone who took the time to read all the chat logs, all the posts in the thread, and knew what it was about before, and knew who you were before the incident knows exactly what they are talking about.

So I'll be blunt and go straight to your motive posting here in this thread. Trolling the ranks by persuading those who weren't in SSRL and above that you never did anything wrong and that they should side with you.

RM may have a point in telling you the correct way to handle the situation, but you coming here and claiming innocence, trolling the ranks, misleading uninformed people, basically lying is no way to undo anything you did.

Any intelligent person can see this.

Can a staff member please post some more information on why JAD/Killer got banned? I'd like to read it…

Not a rant, but I like the Christmas Old Timer cup. :D

From: Rich
Not a rant, but I like the Christmas Old Timer cup. :D

Wish I had one :( (damn junior member) haha

But on the whole, over the time I have been here I have never seen the tension so low :/ unless I am missing something! I just came back about 2 days ago and I haven't seen any fights so I am happy with how everything is going :) <3

EDIT: the christmas donators cup is quite amazing too :)

From: Killler
You don't know what you're talking about, but you certainly bs'd an intelligent looking post making it seem like you do.



Claw. Can you explain how you are out of pocket because of me? You were the one who panicked and sold the chocolate bars with your easter (which at the time was worth more than a purple partyhat), I didn't do it. That was a terrible deal and lost you a lot of gp, and I am sorry for that. But now I'm supposed to pay for that?

If there was a loss from my merchanting then I would have covered it, as I promised I would. But if you hadn't done anything at all then there would have been no loss (actually, you would have profited largely). It's like if you got on your account, dropped your red partyhat, then said it was my fault. Why would I be responsible?

It doesn't matter if it's my fault or not. You're pissed off because you made that bad deal, and you're a very powerful staff member, so you can blame and punish someone for your lost gp even if they don't deserve that blame, but that isn't going to bring it back. Your gp was not lost from my merchanting; it was lost from your unfortunately stupid decision that I had nothing to do with.

I have tried to explain it to you before. Here we go again.

When the chocolate dust started crashing, you basically ditched us all and went afk for many months, even though I had conclusive proof that you were online in the time between. I now think you were merching this with someone else and used our accounts as "dump" accounts. You claim it was because your father died that you went missing, but again, I had seen you online in the time between. You didnt respond on MSN or PM here. So after a week I sold the chocolate dust so I didn't lose heaps more. It wasn't the best deal but if I had of waited longer, I would of lost more, proved by how you didnt come back for ages. And dont even try and say its my fault lol, if I never went into business with you I wouldnt of had to lose GP to stop myself losing even more GP. I guess its my fault for trusting you.

Basically you screwed me and many other people over, and then come back later expecting everything to be ok with a few dodgy excuses and apologies, and expect everyone to not be mad at you or whatever. You abused all our trust, and wriggled like an eel to get out of paying anyone back. So, I decided to ban you. I didn't ban you as soon as the scam happened just in case it was an accident, I banned you many months later (pretty recently really) when you came back and posted some BS in SSRL to try and get your e-rep back.

You owe:

- Me: ~100-200m, cant really remember, the calculations I did are in members forums somewhere (it was a long time ago). Ideally I'd want my Purple Phat back that you took and sold on scythe for RL profit to get your merching started but that's probs not going to happen, even though you promised to give it back
- Coh3n: Not sure, between 100 and 200m?
- Charmz: 100-200m
- Markus: A good account and 100m
- Zeph: No idea, I know you were in lieu with him, you and him probably teamed up so you probs don't owe him anything

And theres probably others, that's just what I can remember atm and from reading this thread

In other words, fuck off with your BS and make things right, or just fuck off. You have the potential to be one of the best user's here, but you messed up hard. BTW, its easy to see through what you're doing here lol, as Icefire stated, so don't think what you're doing is actually going to work.

That purple partyhat I didn't profit off. I sold it for $25 on sythe, and bought that easter I left on your account for $40. And I honestly would have rather had this post and discussion in SSRL, not where everyone can see it.


There is obviously no hope of me having a good reputation here again. Like they say, trust is like a vase. Once broken, it can be fixed, but it will never be the same vase again.

The only reason I came back here is because I don't like having a bad reputation, and I don't like to be known as a scammer. My character, believe it or not, actually means a lot to me. I have no reason to come back to the forums. If I got unbanned I wouldn't have even been active anyways, I was just hoping I could clear some things up.

I apologize if you lost gp while I had access to your account, I really am sorry.


So this is my goodbye. Good luck with cheating everybody, and have fun autoing with armies again and no trade limits :)

Cheers guys,
~JAD

From: Killler
That purple partyhat I didn't profit off. I sold it for $25 on sythe, and bought that easter I left on your account for $40. And I honestly would have rather had this post and discussion in SSRL, not where everyone can see it.


There is obviously no hope of me having a good reputation here again. Like they say, trust is like a vase. Once broken, it can be fixed, but it will never be the same vase again.

The only reason I came back here is because I don't like having a bad reputation, and I don't like to be known as a scammer. My character, believe it or not, actually means a lot to me. I have no reason to come back to the forums. If I got unbanned I wouldn't have even been active anyways, I was just hoping I could clear some things up.

I apologize if you lost gp while I had access to your account, I really am sorry.


So this is my goodbye. Good luck with cheating everybody, and have fun autoing with armies again and no trade limits :)

Cheers guys,
~JAD

I love you JAD, don't leave please :(.

From: Dervish
I love you JAD, don't leave please :(.

So, you have problems with my scamming, but not JAD's?

From: Killler
That purple partyhat I didn't profit off. I sold it for $25 on sythe, and bought that easter I left on your account for $40. And I honestly would have rather had this post and discussion in SSRL, not where everyone can see it.


There is obviously no hope of me having a good reputation here again. Like they say, trust is like a vase. Once broken, it can be fixed, but it will never be the same vase again.

The only reason I came back here is because I don't like having a bad reputation, and I don't like to be known as a scammer. My character, believe it or not, actually means a lot to me. I have no reason to come back to the forums. If I got unbanned I wouldn't have even been active anyways, I was just hoping I could clear some things up.

I apologize if you lost gp while I had access to your account, I really am sorry.


So this is my goodbye. Good luck with cheating everybody, and have fun autoing with armies again and no trade limits :)

Cheers guys,
~JAD

Nah, if you were sorry, or wanted to gain our trust back, or make up for it, or anything, you would pay us back when free trade comes back.

You just wanted to force me and others to make public statements in the hope you could somehow twist your story enough to gain some public sympathy/support to try and ease your own concience/to try and get your e-rep up again. If you didnt want this in public then why didnt you PM me or contact me on MSN, I've had you added for 2-3 years…

So basically everyone can see that your personal greed wins again (in not paying us back when you'll get the chance) and that you're just another scammer like the others here. Nothing special about it, you just got corrupted by the chance of money just like other people have.

Cool story bro.

From: Frement
So, you have problems with my scamming, but not JAD's?

I love you too Frement ! Your contribution has brought SRL forward in great manners ! :)

From: Dervish
I love you too Frement ! Your contribution has brought SRL forward in great manners ! :)

I call drunk on this swell guy.

From: 3Garrett3
I call drunk on this swell guy.

Garrett, i've missed you somuch lately ! How are you?

From: Dervish
Garrett, i've missed you somuch lately ! How are you?

Hahahah, I'm drunk too, msn me? :p I'll PM mine to you

i4m on msn now garrett ! got your PM by th eway :)


I'm on MSN now Garrett ! I got your PM by the way :)

A quote from a different forum, I think we should all read:

We are NOT the moral police. (Keep your opinions to yourself)This is a board to discuss ***, not to discuss the moral or ethical implications of such. If you find that **** [post is offensive], then simply do NOT post in such threads that request these types of [responses]. Chances are there is a thread someplace else to discuss such morals, if there is not, feel free to start one SOMEPLACE ELSE. Failure to follow this point will result in a TROLLING infraction!

Why can't everyone just hold hands and be happy :)

It's a shame that some of the people who did scam where very trusted and stuff … I guess people do change and sadly it won't always be for the better but then again I guess everyone learns from their mistakes and misjudgements and it makes us more wiser even though that still don't make it a valid excuse for the culprits to have done what they did to begin with.

I would definitely like to throw my 2$ in here, I agree 100% with forgive and forget only in the case that the matter has been cleared up (as in, Killer/JAD, doesn't sound like it is). The chance for a person to comeback and contribute to the community after being pardoned, is much higher than that they would do damage, why else would they want to comeback to a community which had them banned in the first place? Show someone the way then give them a 2nd chance is my opinion as nothing more than a SRL member.

My Opinion:

No, people should not just be allowed to come back with an apology and some cookies (although cookies are pretty great). It is nice to know that harmful actions are not tolerated at SRL and those who dabble are removed. That allows a little sense of ease for those newcomers who are trying out the community for the first time. Are they completely banned anyhow? As we have seen before and can see with our JAD/Killer people do show back up (different screen name).

Yes, people should be allowed the chance work their way back into a community over time and after they have righted to the best of their abilities any wrongs they have committed (claimed as accidental or not). If someone proves to be genuinely sorry and have learned from their bannage, there certainly can be a benefit to letting people earn their trust back up and helping each other. So, they may be wearing a scarlet letter for a while, but those sometimes wear off.

If someone breaks the trust that they have been so graciously allowed (to be back into our community) that is it. There is no, "I am really REALLY sorry; let me try again. I might learn another time."

Yes, a perma-ban is a perma ban. I don't think that perma-bans should be initiated by any one member or small group of members. I think that a complete ban should be discussed by the active members of the community.

I literally just posted this elsewhere, but it seems highly relevant here also, and this is more public, so I'll repeat myself.

From: Richard

- As WT-Fakawi has stated, it's impossible to completely prevent people from returning from bans, so we allow them to stay as jnr members once everyone has found out about them. Fair enough. What about people who are completely unaware that these may not be trustworthy people? Until recently, I didn't know Sex was Da 0wner, and I'm not on the best of terms with him since his betrayal… Anyway, I think that there should be some kind of way of showing how they're an untrustworthy user, similar to the banned black market cup, something that allows all users to see that they are a threat (and they always will be, it's like having a criminal record).

- In additional, or instead of the above, changing their name back to their original would allow those effected, or present at the time of the offence, to know exactly who they are, and thus be cautious of them. Obviously this doesn't cater for users who are unaware of this user committing any malicious acts, so combining it with the previous could be beneficial.

- If there was a way in which we could see which users are a threat, some form of sticky in a public area, then everyone would be able to see who was a threat. Similar to the banned user section, except for users who aren't banned. This does mean that the user doesn't have to carry around a sort of "tag" which flaunts how dangerous they are (not that they deserve such benefits…).

- Ban users when we find out who they really are, show them we aren't soft.

In addition to that, I'd like to add that I believe this should be variable depending on the severity of the case. It might also be worthwhile taking into consideration the prior acts of the user. Essentially, would it be beneficial to the community to allow them back it?

While I understand the "a ban is a ban" logic, I disagree with it. I don't think anything is that black and white. I do think that some people shouldn't be allowed back if they do quite bad things, and I understand them losing the privilege of being able to be higher ranks, but I don't think it's just "oh, you leaked something, you can't have the membership status you had before." I think that if they prove themselves as worthy members of the community, they have every right to be of a higher rank than junior member (in most cases). I disagree with some of the people being allowed back/getting higher ranks/etc., but I never know the whole story, so maybe I would think it was justified by the staff if I did know.

But anyway, a ban is a ban. But bans never work. Marijuana is one of the worst things you can be caught possessing, yet 50 million+ Americans use it. There's no way to outlaw anyone/thing completely. And I know we all know that. So instead of just continually combating it, why not just try working with it? I was banned, and I've been allowed back. I think that's fair, as I've been trying to help people, and I'm working on stuff for the community. Do I think I deserve to be a developer or a member or anything? No. I don't see why I would get that privilege. At least not yet. If I show that I am committed to development in libmml and continually help, do I deserve to be rewarded with a rank, membership, cups, or whatever fits my work? Sure. I know none of that will happen (at least not for me), but I think some people do deserve the chance to get higher ranks or whatever, just like any other person.

I think Frement deserves his membership even though his offenses were a bit hefty. And I hope he's rewarded for work he does in OGL, if he ever gets around to it (;)).

I dunno. My two cents. I'm not sure about the cup/lesser rank/name change, although I understand those ideas. I just think it would make it much harder for people like me, Sex, Frement, etc. to be looked at without us being deemed bad people, which will make it hard for us to progress.

While I understand the "a ban is a ban" logic, I disagree with it. I don't think anything is that black and white. I do think that some people shouldn't be allowed back if they do quite bad things, and I understand them losing the privilege of being able to be higher ranks, but I don't think it's just "oh, you leaked something, you can't have the membership status you had before." I think that if they prove themselves as worthy members of the community, they have every right to be of a higher rank than junior member (in most cases). I disagree with some of the people being allowed back/getting higher ranks/etc., but I never know the whole story, so maybe I would think it was justified by the staff if I did know.

I think initially being banned should only ever be temporarily, as it's only 1 offence. But returning during a ban just shows little to no respect for the rules, so I deem this a valid reason to keep your permanently prohibited from certain content here.

But anyway, a ban is a ban. But bans never work. Marijuana is one of the worst things you can be caught possessing, yet 50 million+ Americans use it. There's no way to outlaw anyone/thing completely. And I know we all know that. So instead of just continually combating it, why not just try working with it? I was banned, and I've been allowed back. I think that's fair, as I've been trying to help people, and I'm working on stuff for the community. Do I think I deserve to be a developer or a member or anything? No. I don't see why I would get that privilege. At least not yet. If I show that I am committed to development in libmml and continually help, do I deserve to be rewarded with a rank, membership, cups, or whatever fits my work? Sure. I know none of that will happen (at least not for me), but I think some people do deserve the chance to get higher ranks or whatever, just like any other person.

Let's put this in a true business scenario. If you worked for a loans/mortgage company, for in excess of a year. One day you steal a large sum of money, naturally you are fired when this is found out. You can hardly be expected to be employed again after that, regardless of how committed you are to helping the company.

I think Frement deserves his membership even though his offenses were a bit hefty. And I hope he's rewarded for work he does in OGL, if he ever gets around to it (;)).

For everyone who has created new accounts, I do feel that they have earned the right to be back in the community, and should stay. But personally I feel they should never have been given this chance, as they should have been banned, instantly.

I dunno. My two cents. I'm not sure about the cup/lesser rank/name change, although I understand those ideas. I just think it would make it much harder for people like me, Sex, Frement, etc. to be looked at without us being deemed bad people, which will make it hard for us to progress.

Naturally, everyone who has gained their place in the community shall stay, that would just be a huge mistake to suddenly take that away from them. But, in future, do you really think people returning for serious offences should just be allowed to walk straight back in?

This might be regarded as a little harsh, but it's in the community's best interests.

My problem with people evading these permanent bans is just that - they're evading their bans. Instead of trying to regain access to the forums by making another account, why not make some contributions to show both the staff and user base that you have changed and then (wait for it, novel idea ahead) appeal your ban? I know I would be more likely to forgive someone who showed that they were still committed to the community and respectful of its processes (i.e. they didn't evade their ban), and I think the staff team would be as well.

Kinda hard to make contributions if you're banned, no? I'm all for that, but you don't have access to much, if anything, when you're banned. I made this account to contribute, not to evade my ban (although I had to do that to contribute).

And, Richard, no, I don't think people should just be able to return at their free will. I know I didn't abide to that, which is the main reason I don't think I really deserve any sort of rank or advancement regardless of my contributions anytime soon, but I do agree with it. Kyle (Sex/Da 0wner) had a one year ban I think it was, but he was allowed back well before that. There are a few other examples of that I believe, but those people have, for the most part, afaik, shown that they aren't back to do bad things anymore, and have been contributing. I don't think it's fair now to take back what they have now, and I hope you can agree, but I do think that there should be a bit more strict rulings. Or at least consistent, if strict is an iffy word for some.

From: i luffs yeww
Kinda hard to make contributions if you're banned, no? I'm all for that, but you don't have access to much, if anything, when you're banned. I made this account to contribute, not to evade my ban (although I had to do that to contribute).

And, Richard, no, I don't think people should just be able to return at their free will. I know I didn't abide to that, which is the main reason I don't think I really deserve any sort of rank or advancement regardless of my contributions anytime soon, but I do agree with it. Kyle (Sex/Da 0wner) had a one year ban I think it was, but he was allowed back well before that. There are a few other examples of that I believe, but those people have, for the most part, afaik, shown that they aren't back to do bad things anymore, and have been contributing. I don't think it's fair now to take back what they have now, and I hope you can agree, but I do think that there should be a bit more strict rulings. Or at least consistent, if strict is an iffy word for some.

You can still submit additions to the include without having to be a member of the forums, or taking Method's idea.

Yeah, probably was a bit more frustrated with the Kyle case than most, as my SRL account was at the heart of that issue. Selfishness, eh? It's about time things were a lot firmer around here. I sense a lot of hollow threats…

From: i luffs yeww
Kinda hard to make contributions if you're banned, no? I'm all for that, but you don't have access to much, if anything, when you're banned. I made this account to contribute, not to evade my ban (although I had to do that to contribute).

I don't think so. You have Simba and SRL to use, so find something to do. Whether you make a script or come up with an idea for the include, you have many options available to you that don't require access to the forum. The IRC channel is open up to anyone as well, so that's another resource you can make use of if you're banned on the forum.

Again, I'd much rather hear about someone returning from a ban because they worked on some things that they thought could make a difference and then contacted the administrators about their ban instead of evading the ban and then contributing. Dealing with your ban and staying dedicated shows much more character than evading the ban and trying to make up for it by contributing.

I completely understand. :) I don't expect people to trust or like me anymore, but I still try. But no hard feelings, I know I'm not the most welcome person here.

And you were affected by Sex so of course you have harsh feelings toward it. Just as SSRL+ were affected by what I did, they generally frown upon me. I get it. ;)

I don't understand how just banning people is "in the community's best interests",(especially if we consider the number of active users on the forum as a positive thing) if the person is sorry and as I said, the matter had been cleared up (all monies stolen returned, pay'd back etc…), why not let them back in? If they want to be here then obviously they are ready to change (adapt their attitudes and actions) to a manner that the community would find acceptable, especially since they know they are on a 2nd chance. I would think that iluffsyews would be a perfect example, I have no idea the history with him, but he seems to be very engaging with the community and I haven't seen a post I didn't like from him, and obviously he has changed something about him and now is working hard to regain trust from the community.

Rasta Magician.

From: TomTuff
Rasta Magician.

What?

Ian, I'm just wondering, what did you actually do?

From: Rich
What?

This is the Rant against the staff thread, and the "Rasta Magician topic" hasn't yet been posted about. Now TomTuff is starting the discussion

From: Zyt3x
This is the Rant against the staff thread, and the "Rasta Magician topic" hasn't yet been posted about. Now TomTuff is starting the discussion

Oh OK. In that case, RM, get on your break. Noweee. I'll be honest, you said in Members (a week ago?) that you're going on break, and you're still here making threads which make no sense whatsoever.

From: Rich
Oh OK. In that case, RM, get on your break. Noweee. I'll be honest, you said in Members (a week ago?) that you're going on break, and you're still here making threads which make no sense whatsoever.

(I'll just add some more to your post :) )

RM, your actions are a disgrace to the SRL Administration. Please sober up, get back on track and stop posting confusing posts…

From: Zyt3x
(I'll just add some more to your post :) )

RM, your actions are a disgrace to the SRL Administration. Please sober up, get back on track and stop posting confusing posts…

Zytex, your actions are a disgrace to yourself, please re-read this and reconsider how you got to where you are in SRL. And when that light shines, excuse yourself for disgracing me.

-MR. RM

From: Sir R. M8gic1an
Zytex, your actions are a disgrace to yourself, please re-read this and reconsider how you got to where you are in SRL. And when that light shines, excuse yourself for disgracing me.

-MR. RM

Zyt3x is right, and you are wrong.

He does not deserve that cutting comment, and you need to realise that people are not happy with you for a reason (I thought we went over this).

You calling people `little boys` is not a nice thing, contrary to what you might believe.

I'll join the Rasta train. When i saw the Rant Against the Staff thread on "new Posts" i was hoping that he would be the new discussion, and if he wasn't I was planning on posting something.

If you're going to make a new thread (one of your many, many threads) about "going on a break" then you might want to actually do that. You said in your thread that the other admins basically told you to take a break…my guess is that all of this *gestures around RM's posts and threads* is why.

EDIT: actaully after reading the thread again, that seems like its pretty much the reason why.

From: Nava2
Zyt3x is right, and you are wrong.

He does not deserve that cutting comment, and you need to realise that people are not happy with you for a reason (I thought we went over this).

You calling people `little boys` is not a nice thing, contrary to what you might believe.

If people act like lil boys and go spamming a thread in development section where some code was posted and the rest was laying around, people are acting like lil boys. And instead of just letting me post my code and go on break, people keep on making negative comments rather than appreciate the fact I'm posting code.

~RM

From: Nava2
Zyt3x is right, and you are wrong.

He does not deserve that cutting comment, and you need to realise that people are not happy with you for a reason (I thought we went over this).

You calling people `little boys` is not a nice thing, contrary to what you might believe.

And saying RM is a disgrace to the SRL Administration is nice perhaps ?

I'm with RM on this one, he posted work in progress, in the developpement section.

The argument about his multiple posts is not valid, he is staff, he has the right to do so.

Now if you infact want RM to go on a break, wait until monday, which he specified is the day he'd come home and then leave for a while.

OR ! stop arguing with him.

I hate to rant against my fellow staff members in public, but imo Zyt3x is right.

Ian leaked a script of mine and I'm sure he his friend made a couple of hundreds of dollars with it by selling it and using it. Of course I don't like people making RL $ with my scripts and especially not if they aren't sharing.

Edit: Also Dervish, staff doesn't have the right to break the rules. I once tried buying an xbox here (the man offered it and instead of ignoring the thread I posted in it) and that gave me a fair bit of trouble.
Although imo we should actually enforce the Mental Insanity/Drug abuse rule.

From: Dervish
And saying RM is a disgrace to the SRL Administration is nice perhaps ?

I'm with RM on this one, he posted work in progress, in the developpement section.

The argument about his multiple posts is not valid, he is staff, he has the right to do so.

Now if you infact want RM to go on a break, wait until monday, which he specified is the day he'd come home and then leave for a while.

OR ! stop arguing with him.

You put words in my mouth, sir.

Also, unfortunately, you are not as versed in these matters. I'm not trying to be condescending, but there are a lot of things which go on in boards you can not see.

Either way, RM knows my stance on recent actions and, as such, I will move on. I just needed to defend Zyt3x on this one as it was not fair.

From: Markus
I hate to rant against my fellow staff members in public, but imo Zyt3x is right.

Ian leaked a script of mine and I'm sure he his friend made a couple of hundreds of dollars with it by selling it and using it. Of course I don't like people making RL $ with my scripts and especially not if they aren't sharing.

Edit: Also Dervish, staff doesn't have the right to break the rules. I once tried buying an xbox here (the man offered it and instead of ignoring the thread I posted in it) and that gave me a fair bit of trouble.
Although imo we should actually enforce the Mental Insanity/Drug abuse rule.

There is an entire thread about staff being above the rules. I beleive you're wrong.

From: Dervish
There is an entire thread about staff being above the rules. I beleive you're wrong.

I would love to see where it says this.

And by the way, he hasn't only been posting in the "R&D" section. Have you seen some of his "tutorials?" He wrote one thread on how to get a script running, then he posted some random bit of code with a bunch of constants saying that "this is what is coming from him." Then, when he was criticized for not posting anything like a DeclarePlayers procedure, or an actual script that one could setup and test to see if they filled it all in correctly, he told someone else (I think it was Nava2, don't quote me on that one) to get a copy of DeclarePlayers for him to use because he was on break.

From: Dervish
There is an entire thread about staff being above the rules. I beleive you're wrong.

Yes, I also would like to see this…?


Edit:

If you are meaning this thread, try reading it ;) Says nothing about us being above the rules, merely accusations that some staff members act like it.
http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60527

From: TomTuff
I would love to see where it says this.

And by the way, he hasn't only been posting in the "R&D" section. Have you seen some of his "tutorials?" He wrote one thread on how to get a script running, then he posted some random bit of code with a bunch of constants saying that "this is what is coming from him." Then, when he was criticized for not posting anything like a DeclarePlayers procedure, or an actual script that one could setup and test to see if they filled it all in correctly, he told someone else (I think it was Nava2, don't quote me on that one) to get a copy of DeclarePlayers for him to use because he was on break.

From: Hobbit
Yes, I also would like to see this…?


Edit:

If you are meaning this thread, try reading it ;) Says nothing about us being above the rules, merely accusations that some staff members act like it.
http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60527

It is that thread indeed. I believe having an insulting behaviour is above the rules, even if you are part of staff.

When you said above are you meaning against? Yes, that sort of attitude is against the rules, staff or not. This is what markus is saying. Saying someone is above the rules is saying the rules dont apply to them.

From: Hobbit
When you said above are you meaning against? Yes, that sort of attitude is against the rules, staff or not. This is what markus is saying. Saying someone is above the rules is saying the rules dont apply to them.

Well it would seem that part of staff is above the rules then, as they do not have any decision taken against them when their actions are against the rules.

From: Dervish
Well it would seem that part of staff is above the rules then, as they do not have any decision taken against them when their actions are against the rules.

Please remember you cannot see a lot of sections we can see.

From: Hobbit
Please remember you cannot see a lot of sections we can see.

Unfortunately.

Dervish, you're being more confusing than RM.

From: TomTuff
Dervish, you're being more confusing than RM.

I fail to see in which way I could possibly be confusing.

It's unclear whether or not you think staff are above rules.

From: Dervish
Well it would seem that part of staff is above the rules then.

I am confused by this quote too, can you explaine it to me?

From: TomTuff
It's unclear whether or not you think staff are above rules.

Then I shall make it clear : I think so.

From: Dervish
Then I shall make it clear : I think so.

Yeah, I figured that out, but you said your grounds for believing that were in the thread that Hobbit posted a few posts back. That thread states that staff are not above the rules.

From: TomTuff
Yeah, I figured that out, but you said your grounds for believing that were in the thread that Hobbit posted a few posts back. That thread states that staff are not above the rules.

Yet the presence of multiple quotes of inappropriate behavior should prove my point.

Staff create the rules. Staff apply the rules. Staff interpret the rules.

~RM

From: Sir R. M8gic1an
Staff create the rules. Staff apply the rules. Staff interpret the rules.

~RM

Staff act mature.

From: Zyt3x
Staff act mature.

No one's perfect. I really don't understand how you can be such a backstabber.

~RM

From: Sir R. M8gic1an
Staff create the rules. Staff apply the rules. Staff interpret the rules.

~RM

Are you saying the rules are open to interpretation? I'm pretty sure we're all supposed to interpret them in the same way. You're basically stating we can all interpret them the way we want (and thus evade them).

From: Wizzup?
Are you saying the rules are open to interpretation? I'm pretty sure we're all supposed to interpret them in the same way. You're basically stating we can all interpret them the way we want (and thus evade them).

No, I'm saying that everyone has a different interpretation of life as we are all unique and all have our thoughts.

"This is a fucking bad post" = infraction by hobbit, whatever by RM, don't care by wizzup, it's not directed at anyone by the claw.

see what I mean?

But fawki did ask me to stop cursing so,

"This is an awfully bad post"

~RM

From: Sir R. M8gic1an
No one's perfect. I really don't understand how you can be such a backstabber.

~RM

I'm sorry.. Don't get me wrong, I do like you. A lot.
But all the stuff that's happened lately with you and your break and so on… It's just that I'm kind of sick of all the confusing posts…

From: Zyt3x
I'm sorry.. Don't get me wrong, I do like you. A lot.
But all the stuff that's happened lately with you and your break and so on… It's just that I'm kind of sick of all the confusing posts…

Don't let yourself be confused, light shall shine in the dawn dear son LOL.

~RM

From: Sir R. M8gic1an
Don't let yourself be confused, light shall shine in the dawn dear son LOL.

~RM

I think this post just added to Zy3x's frustration.

They all do.

This site has fucking awesome staff compared to most forums out there, that's all I have to say.

From: grats
This site has fucking awesome staff compared to most forums out there, that's all I have to say.

^ ++ For that.

Yea, we have our disagreements every now and again… actually more now than again, but the great thing is that they get worked out almost always. It usually leaves us in a more growed place anyhow. =]

Man, I don't really see a problem with the staff as far as I am concerned. They are some of the coolest staff on any site I've been to :p.

One thing is that RM has been posting some weird ass shit lately. Like a LOT of threads that don't really need to be made.

Oh and by the way, I think I saw somewhere that we must refrain from posting while high/drunk/etc. If I act the same while high can I still post? By this I mean, if you couldn't tell that I'm high by posts, would you care?

>_> Of course. You just wanna show off that you don't act differently on drugs because you're "SO JUST YOU" and don't act at all like anyone else. You know what the point is, so you know the answer to your own question. Don't do stupid shit on here. Sober or not.

I rarely smoke anymore I was just bringing up a point. I think it is valid. And yeah I guess I worded that a little wrong. I didn't mean for it to come out like that. I do act differently but when it is something controllable such as a post I can refrain from clicking that "Post Quick Reply" button unlike some people here. At least editing the post before I click it. Obviously I'm not gonna do stupid shit on here I really don't anyways. I meant that like we should be allowed to post when under the influence of something as long as it isn't that noticeable and doesn't make us post stupid/pointless shit.

Again, you know exactly what any staff member would say. Either "drugs are bad lol" or "I wouldn't know if you were, but since you told me, I didn't hear." I know you're not stupid enough to think you literally can't post if you're high. I'm high and I'm posting. Let that be known. However, I'm not just doing stupid stuff due to it.

You're smarter than that, I thought, Kyle.

I'm high right now too. Say no to drugs, though.

people have different interpretations of rules, but there is almost always a generally accepted understanding for any particular rule. But that's not the point he was trying to make. He meant that the staff interpret the rules so the staff can say whether or not they were breaking the rules (in effect staff are above the rules). But imo rules should be the same for everyone.

Too many exceptions to the rule and you have people starting to break them just because they see other people doing it. It's already sort of happened with people getting banned (using previous examples of unbanned people to warrent their own reentry). And if some people get banned along the way, that will be okay, but the more staff break the rules/allow people to, the less control they have over everyone.

Basically i find RM to be kind of stupid for either thinking that the staff should be above the rules or for accidentally making what I think is a fairly obvious statement towards that.

Staff are above the rules, but the staff ain't above staff.

It's as simple as that my friend… :)

~RM

From: Sir R. M8gic1an
Staff are above the rules, but the staff ain't above staff.

It's as simple as that my friend… :)

~RM

What the fuck?!

From: Dan Cardin
Basically i find RM to be kind of stupid for either thinking that the staff should be above the rules or for accidentally making what I think is a fairly obvious statement towards that.

^^^^^^^^^

From: Sir R. M8gic1an
Staff are above the rules, but the staff ain't above staff.

It's as simple as that my friend… :)

~RM

Uh…you guys aren't exempt from your own damn rules?

I'm tired of shit getting blamed on weed. Most of us aren't kids and that shit sounds stupid. Enough of it.

No one is above the rules, RM.

We aren't blaming stuff of weed, we are blaming people who cannot handle themselves at the level they should while on weed. We never blanketed everyone under this, you guys assumed and blanketed yourselves.

From: IceFire908
No one is above the rules, RM.

This.

From: Sir R. M8gic1an
Staff are above the rules, but the staff ain't above staff.

It's as simple as that my friend… :)

~RM

I think you mean that the staff will be exempt from the rules if they were to judge the punishment for themselves, but other staff can intervene and say otherwise? :S

I have no idea.. lol

Just let it go for now guys. Let him take his break and clear his head and we'll see how things go when he returns.

I just came back and one of the first things I noticed were RM's unique posts.
I don't really mind them but threads such as http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62281 don't seem sticky-worthy :S
Overall I love this community though and have great respect for the staff, especially Benland100, you're a legend.

Staff make the rules, staff change the rules, etc.

"case law is most common, and is based on legislation, and legislation is developed by legal corps".

That's the UK Law system for you. Just saying.

Staff are above the rules because they make them, and staff have to UPHOLD the rules.

And if they don't…. they probably end up not being staff no more, or the likes.

I just happen to have a very long winded argument which I fairly enjoy.

~RM

don't try and bring real law into this if you want to actually have a weird, twisted way of thinking. Cops and judges can't blatantly break the law and get away without consequences. In a good system, they are just as responsible. IMO staff should be more bound to the rules than anyone and each step away from them is a step towards being demoted, just like in life. Good thing for RM that I'm not Wizzup.

From: Dan Cardin
don't try and bring real law into this if you want to actually have a weird, twisted way of thinking. Cops and judges can't blatantly break the law and get away without consequences. In a good system, they are just as responsible. IMO staff should be more bound to the rules than anyone and each step away from them is a step towards being demoted, just like in life. Good thing for RM that I'm not Wizzup.

Well Wizzup told me to enjoy my break, so good thing you're not Wizzup indeed, cus he was much nicer and told me to go relax :) No one's perfect, so please excuse my over-the-top amount of threads, some were indeed unnecessary and even badly written out and that's about it. I've said some harsh words too, and heard some back, but that's life. :duh:

~RM

Like dan said, RM how can we expect members to follow the rules if there are staff members going around and blatantly breaking them then saying "staff is above the rules". It does not work like that. If anything we should be more bound to the rules then them because we need to set the example. If we set a rule that says any swearing or flaming directly at people will result in a temp ban, then we proceed to do so without consequence then we are huge hypocrites. If you cannot follow the rules you set then you should not be a leader (generalized statement).

No problems with the staff at all, think you guys are doing an excellent job! :)

It would seem I was right in the end.

From: Dervish
It would seem I was right in the end.

Right about what? Staff = above the rules? LOL

From: TomTuff
Right about what? Staff = above the rules? LOL

I ask the same.. Right about what?

I was right about the fact that staff apparently seems to think they are above the rules, indicated by RMs confusing or not, posts about the current subject.

From: Dervish
I was right about the fact that staff apparently seems to think they are above the rules, indicated by RMs confusing or not, posts about the current subject.

But no one, including that staff, are above the rules.

Just because someone thinks they are above the rules does not mean they are.

And almost the entire staff does not think they are above any rules.

From: IceFire908
But no one, including that staff, are above the rules.

Just because someone thinks they are above the rules does not mean they are.

And almost the entire staff does not think they are above any rules.

My argument was that staff thought so, may it be part of or whole.

I'm disappointed because I think you accused Naike for a wrong reason. http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62976

Personally I don't belive he personally stole anything. But I also think that he is responsible for getting hacked. The reason why I believe that he got hacked and the hacker used his ip address to access everything is that my cousin got hacked recently and the hacker used his ip address to stole our rs stuff.

Because I think it's his fault that he got hacked I don't understand comments like this:

If I hadn't stolen anything, I surely wouldn't offer paying more back. Actually, I wouldn't ``pay back'' anything since I had never stolen anything.

Of course he should pay back because he should be responsible for his srl account.

No one would do this to steal runescape accounts as its not a criminal offense.

Isn't stealing anything a criminal offence?

This guy doesn't listen to what ppl say:

Too bad that there is 100% proof. The notion that someone hacked into and used your IP to steal runescape goods is so ridiculous I feel bad for you just believing it.

Edit: What I mean is that you're all saying that he is guilty 100% sure although you can't prove it. In my opinion he might be guilty but we can't be 100% sure of it…

From: antti mies
Nike stuff.

To the people who say there is 100% proof, they're wrong, and should recognize that. But, I still agree with the decision. They have to draw the line. Just because of his previous record and praise doesn't mean he should get completely off the hook, I hope you can agree with.

They did him a good thing, which is what they do when most ssrl+ get into questionable situations. They just demoted him. His account is still here, he still has his cups, and he'll always have the reputation he's worked for (being a good guy and helpful and smart and everything). And I think the staff correctly respected that and the fact that they don't know 100% so they didn't ban him. He's still welcome, officially. Some people will have their grudges, but he's still welcome, just like some other members who were actually banned and came back.

He left on his own. He's always welcome back. It's sad it came to this and that he left because of it, but I don't think the staff's intent was to upset him to the point that he leaves, although that happens when people get demoted.

More importantly, I don't think this should be posted here. It's been discussed and discussed, people still complain and I had to, sadly, request a lock on his goodbye thread. I hate to see that happen because then it makes it seem like they're not welcome or it's a good thing they left or whatever, but it was just because people can't control themselves anymore.

Anyway, N1ke stuff should be in members+ (or even better a PM) at this point. The decision was made, and it's no longer a public issue in my mind.



The only thing I dislike about staff is their lack of time commitment to the forums. I do know that everyone here has lives, but I also think that it's a commitment to be part of the staff here. I think that it's important to have high up people and devs and what not contributing, as those are the people a lot of us used to look up to when we first started, and the fall of that has stopped newcomers from prospering, which is something we need, really.

There's a lot of favoritism on these forums, if you want to be an admin you can't have favorites and treat everyone the same when it comes to punishments, for example if lets say I said "Fuck you xxx," I'd get an infraction in no less than 10 minutes, and it would be a surprise if a timeban wasn't followed, now if someone else said that (depending on their rank, and relationship with admins) people would wave their finger at them, and that's pretty much it.

So to whom it may concern, fuck you.

From: Feroc1ty
There's a lot of favoritism on these forums, if you want to be an admin you can't have favorites and treat everyone the same when it comes to punishments, for example if lets say I said "Fuck you xxx," I'd get an infraction in no less than 10 minutes, and it would be a surprise if a timeban wasn't followed, now if someone else said that (depending on their rank, and relationship with admins) people would wave their finger at them, and that's pretty much it.

So to whom it may concern, fuck you.

Some of us have better reputation then others, and that affects the punishment? I don't see anything wrong with that.

From: Feroc1ty
There's a lot of favoritism on these forums, if you want to be an admin you can't have favorites and treat everyone the same when it comes to punishments, for example if lets say I said "Fuck you xxx," I'd get an infraction in no less than 10 minutes, and it would be a surprise if a timeban wasn't followed, now if someone else said that (depending on their rank, and relationship with admins) people would wave their finger at them, and that's pretty much it.

So to whom it may concern, fuck you.

There are no favourites, just biases against users who deserved to be looked at with such a bias. That doesn't mean that people who offend (for no apparent reason) will get an infraction. Obviously if a member of the staff does this there's no point in infracting him and instead a discussing in the staff forum is started. Every other user will just get an infraction. Just because you misbehaved doesn't mean people favour others, it just means people will take a slightly different stance concerning you because of your past. And it surely is possible to overcome this bias.

E: Reputation doesn't really affect the punishment unless it's something building up - like Timer being a complete d*ck to everyone. At some point you just can't just hand out another infraction and instead you ban them.

From: antti mies
Isn't stealing anything a criminal offence?

Without getting technical and too legal, the only people who actually own any of the pixels are Jagex, we are essentially "hiring" their services, as long as the items stay in the game (and AFAIK there's no way to take pixels away from Jagex other than removing them from their databases). So no, nothing illegal in this whatsoever. It is, however, highly unethical and immoral.

From: i luffs yeww
To the people who say there is 100% proof, they're wrong, and should recognize that. But, I still agree with the decision. They have to draw the line. Just because of his previous record and praise doesn't mean he should get completely off the hook, I hope you can agree with.

I disagree with there being 100% proof, that sort of proof in any situation is pretty damn hard to come by. But come on, let's look at the facts, Naike was giving access to many accounts, these accounts lost a fair few items, and his IP was the one seen on people's log in. On the other hand, Naike has little proof in saying this was not the case, whether he is guilty or not is another matter. So, on weighing up the 2 sides, it is heavily outbalanced against Naike. I'm not condemning him or throwing accusations, but it's just the facts. This is how justice systems work.

From: Feroc1ty
There's a lot of favoritism on these forums, if you want to be an admin you can't have favorites and treat everyone the same when it comes to punishments, for example if lets say I said "Fuck you xxx," I'd get an infraction in no less than 10 minutes, and it would be a surprise if a timeban wasn't followed, now if someone else said that (depending on their rank, and relationship with admins) people would wave their finger at them, and that's pretty much it.

So to whom it may concern, fuck you.

There is no favouritism, but people who have higher ranks generally have a far higher reputation, thus naturally they are going to prejudices towards these people. It's a balance of what they've done negatively, against that of what they've done positively. Higher ranked members have done more positive things, generally.

From: Feroc1ty
There's a lot of favoritism on these forums, if you want to be an admin you can't have favorites and treat everyone the same when it comes to punishments, for example if lets say I said "Fuck you xxx," I'd get an infraction in no less than 10 minutes, and it would be a surprise if a timeban wasn't followed, now if someone else said that (depending on their rank, and relationship with admins) people would wave their finger at them, and that's pretty much it.

So to whom it may concern, fuck you.

lol you're silly if you think that anyone can have no bias thoughts or "favorites" as you put it.

The more trust/compassion/reputation/whatever you wanna judge it by, the less harsh your punishment will be, as your presence in the community has been and most likely still will be a good one.

Also, nothing's fail. Nothing is judged on a blank slate or without prejudice or without past actions in mind. Grow up.

l2realworld.

From: i luffs yeww


The only thing I dislike about staff is their lack of time commitment to the forums. I do know that everyone here has lives, but I also think that it's a commitment to be part of the staff here. I think that it's important to have high up people and devs and what not contributing, as those are the people a lot of us used to look up to when we first started, and the fall of that has stopped newcomers from prospering, which is something we need, really.

The main demographics here are teenagers, unfortunately, people mature and discover there is a whole new world out there and move on…it is a big commitment to be part of this forum, on any level greater than leecher….there is so much more that goes on behind the scenes then people don't realize, personally, during my time here as staff, As my contributions, I devoted my energy to trying to keep things running smoothly, this included policing,re-categorizing misplaced posts, and mediating problems… most went on unnoticed by the general public…everyone has their own problems and demons that they deal with, but it's how you deal with it in the public eyes that determines your creditability…I've said before, it takes 10 good deeds to make up for 1 bad 1. My personal apology to you, that I wasn't able to be there for you, when you were having your problems, I've had much guilt, that perhaps I could have helped you through your transitional period, but at the same time, I was dealing with my own RL and community based problems. I see you made it though just fine and I commend you for sticking it out and turning your life around !

From: Feroc1ty
There's a lot of favoritism on these forums, if you want to be an admin you can't have favorites and treat everyone the same when it comes to punishments, for example if lets say I said "Fuck you xxx," I'd get an infraction in no less than 10 minutes, and it would be a surprise if a timeban wasn't followed, now if someone else said that (depending on their rank, and relationship with admins) people would wave their finger at them, and that's pretty much it.

So to whom it may concern, fuck you.

I was worried my message wouldn't be conveyed in the manner I hoped, and I woke up quite upset as I wet my bed for the first time in many years.

I don't think the staff are doing a bad job. And I know it's stressful and hard and everything, and a lot of times, as we are getting older, a RuneScape cheating community becomes less and less of a priority. I didn't mean to make it seem like the staff should just start doing more here, because obviously if they're already busy it's unfair to ask more of them.

Something I've been thinking about though, which I've hoped libmml would have helped for awhile now and why I wanted to help but ended up not being smart enough to do so, is back when I first started in early 2007. People like Renax, Starblaster, tsn, pentti, pwnaz0r, spork-eh, bullzeye, etc. (many more, but I can't remember all their names :<) would post scripts and tuts and just have a strong presence in the community. It were these people that got so many people into the community, even though each individual wasn't necessarily on 24/7 and doing every sort of thing possible. But since the chances were that at least one would be on at almost any given time, it seemed like the community of developers and high ranking members (people like pentti, bullzeye, MK, etc. who were just members but were looked at quite highly) always existed. And that is the main thing that's missing from SRL today, in my opinion.

We've up'd our technology to above and beyond what Jagex can deal with, for the most part. We have the best community, which really isn't even an opinion in comparison to rsbot/scythe/etc. We've brilliant members that have tackled innumerable problems in advanced ways for years.

But there's no tsn. There's no mk. There's no pentti or spork-eh or starblaster or renax or anyone.

I personally think that the people who deserve to be rewarded will thrive when they are rewarded. I'm not talking about the people who get members and then just stick there (not going to point names, but I know that the staff at least knows of the kind of person I'm talking about). I'm talking about people like Coh3n who started small and made a script and worked with some people (me being one of them) and then continued to work on things and got promoted all the way up to moderator. People like Coh3n are the people we need.

And I think that they can be found. Harry is a smart guy and a great scripter. As is Home. They both are people that I think/hope the community looks highly upon, just as we did way back when with mk's vem and pentti's mining script(s).

So, to help with the problem, I think the staff needs to "test" out some people's chances at being good members of the community. It's hard to tell, because right now you apply and then get to spread your wings a little, but I don't think that that's really what shows the new member that they're valued, and doesn't make them want to thrive. I think that if the staff sometimes promoted people with the promoted person having the ability to see the staff discussion and praise, they may try harder.

Possibly even have a trial period where membership isn't judged by just any member. I think that's caused problems. Not going to point out names still, but I don't want to be judged by people who never script. That wouldn't show me anything. But I'd be honored and want to prove the community that I deserve it if Wizzup? WT-Fakawi, EC!, ZephyrsFury, RAM, Hobbit, Bebe, Claw, RM, Coh3n, N2, Harry, Home, bullzeye, Dgby, and possibly some more, as they all either have proven themselves to be knowledgeable in scripting, general programming, or just the community itself. And they have all done great things, and all deserve where they're at, if not higher in some cases.

Excuse my rambling, I just really don't want this community to die, and it undoubtedly has taken a number of big punches since I first joined.

From: i luffs yeww
I was worried my message wouldn't be conveyed in the manner I hoped, and I woke up quite upset as I wet my bed for the first time in many years.

I don't think the staff are doing a bad job. And I know it's stressful and hard and everything, and a lot of times, as we are getting older, a RuneScape cheating community becomes less and less of a priority. I didn't mean to make it seem like the staff should just start doing more here, because obviously if they're already busy it's unfair to ask more of them.

Something I've been thinking about though, which I've hoped libmml would have helped for awhile now and why I wanted to help but ended up not being smart enough to do so, is back when I first started in early 2007. People like Renax, Starblaster, tsn, pentti, pwnaz0r, spork-eh, bullzeye, etc. (many more, but I can't remember all their names :<) would post scripts and tuts and just have a strong presence in the community. It were these people that got so many people into the community, even though each individual wasn't necessarily on 24/7 and doing every sort of thing possible. But since the chances were that at least one would be on at almost any given time, it seemed like the community of developers and high ranking members (people like pentti, bullzeye, MK, etc. who were just members but were looked at quite highly) always existed. And that is the main thing that's missing from SRL today, in my opinion.

We've up'd our technology to above and beyond what Jagex can deal with, for the most part. We have the best community, which really isn't even an opinion in comparison to rsbot/scythe/etc. We've brilliant members that have tackled innumerable problems in advanced ways for years.

But there's no tsn. There's no mk. There's no pentti or spork-eh or starblaster or renax or anyone.

I personally think that the people who deserve to be rewarded will thrive when they are rewarded. I'm not talking about the people who get members and then just stick there (not going to point names, but I know that the staff at least knows of the kind of person I'm talking about). I'm talking about people like Coh3n who started small and made a script and worked with some people (me being one of them) and then continued to work on things and got promoted all the way up to moderator. People like Coh3n are the people we need.

And I think that they can be found. Harry is a smart guy and a great scripter. As is Home. They both are people that I think/hope the community looks highly upon, just as we did way back when with mk's vem and pentti's mining script(s).

So, to help with the problem, I think the staff needs to "test" out some people's chances at being good members of the community. It's hard to tell, because right now you apply and then get to spread your wings a little, but I don't think that that's really what shows the new member that they're valued, and doesn't make them want to thrive. I think that if the staff sometimes promoted people with the promoted person having the ability to see the staff discussion and praise, they may try harder.

Possibly even have a trial period where membership isn't judged by just any member. I think that's caused problems. Not going to point out names still, but I don't want to be judged by people who never script. That wouldn't show me anything. But I'd be honored and want to prove the community that I deserve it if Wizzup? WT-Fakawi, EC!, ZephyrsFury, RAM, Hobbit, Bebe, Claw, RM, Coh3n, N2, Harry, Home, bullzeye, Dgby, and possibly some more, as they all either have proven themselves to be knowledgeable in scripting, general programming, or just the community itself. And they have all done great things, and all deserve where they're at, if not higher in some cases.

Excuse my rambling, I just really don't want this community to die, and it undoubtedly has taken a number of big punches since I first joined.

I must say i feel ashamed.

From: Dervish
I must say i feel ashamed.

Ashamed at what?

From: i luffs yeww
Ashamed at what?

I'm not talking about the people who get members and then just stick there (not going to point names, but I know that the staff at least knows of the kind of person I'm talking about)

That part.

HarryJames 4 staf!

From: Dervish
That part.

You're gonna have to be more clear, because obviously I'm stupid and am not understanding what you're trying to say about that..

He's implying that you imply that he is one of them.

From: Markus
He's implying that you imply that he is one of them.

Oh, well thanks for clearing that up. :)

I cant realy say much here as i have only been around a month or two ..

But ..i will say one thing .

Ive been here a few weeks now . and i love it here .
you see ive been finding it hard to find people i can work with for years .
people are either to biased , rude or stuck up .
most people will have a go just because they can .
most people dont seem to care about helping others ..

BUT

here on villavu i havent had any problems .. ( lucky me . )
but i have seen others face these problems .

there ARE people like the abouve , here on villavu but i am happy to say . there are, in the most part few of them .

Be proud no matter what villavu is still the nicest community ive seen in a long time . i dont think there is much that needs changing around here .
but then i dont know what it USED to be like .

the whole world IRL and virtual is changing as we speak . so embrace the change ..

( but we do need more .. scripts/tutorials whatever it is we need more so more people come .. ) we just need to keep Villavu safe from the idiots that just want to ruin it buy scamming/stealing their way through ..


( may not make much sense but these are my thoughts .. :) )

My opinion…

using mistagnerdslogic;
using rantagainstthestaffv2Thread;

static void Main(string[] args){
	string un = username;
	if (isBanned(un) && goodIntentions(un) && communityVote(un)){	
		banHammer = false;
	} else {
		banHammer = isBanned(un);
	}
}

public bool isBanned( string un ){
	getUserStatus(un) == "banned" ? return true;
}
public bool goodIntentions( string un){
	int good = weighData(getGoodContributions(un));
	int bad = weighData(getBadContributions(un));
	good > bad ? return true;
}
public bool communityVote( string un ){
	int yay;
	bool votes [] = getVotes[un];
	for ( int i = 0, i < votes.length, i++) {
		votes[i] == true ? yay ++;
	}
	yay >= (votes.length * .6) ?	return true;
}

From: Mistagnerd
My opinion…

using mistagnerdslogic;
using rantagainstthestaffv2Thread;

static void Main(string[] args){
	string un = username;
	if (isBanned(un) && goodIntentions(un) && communityVote(un)){	
		banHammer = false;
	} else {
		banHammer = isBanned(un);
	}
}

public bool isBanned( string un ){
	getUserStatus(un) == "banned" ? return true;
}
public bool goodIntentions( string un){
	int good = weighData(getGoodContributions(un));
	int bad = weighData(getBadContributions(un));
	good > bad ? return true;
}
public bool communityVote( string un ){
	int yay;
	bool votes [] = getVotes[un];
	for ( int i = 0, i < votes.length, i++) {
		votes[i] == true ? yay ++;
	}
	yay >= (votes.length * .6) ?	return true;
}

I strongly disagree…. I wouldn't want villavu to become a community of mindless robots into which a few scripts are inserted and that's the way it runs…….

Freedom of thought for the win.
Freedom of change.
Freedom of speech.
Freedom from our own bot making evil skills.

And I figure you'd have quite a hard time writing a program that would weigh contributions :)

~RM

From: Sir R. M8gic1an
I strongly disagree…. I wouldn't want villavu to become a community of mindless robots into which a few scripts are inserted and that's the way it runs…….

Freedom of thought for the win.
Freedom of change.
Freedom of speech.
Freedom from our own bot making evil skills.

And I figure you'd have quite a hard time writing a program that would weigh contributions :)

~RM

well it wouldn't be solely in the hand of the script. Which is why there is a community vote involved. For example say a poll.. and with a 60% yes votes a decent sized majority wins!

weight would also be found via a polling system.

and last but not least…it was a joke. RM got it, but I figure I had better set that straight before i catch any flack and references to Terminator or IRobot.

I wouldn't have Bots of any sort control me.

Mistargnered, i would not be further from you, i belive that people being unbanned is for the staff and the staff only. Good Intentions can be hard to judge and easyly faked. Also its the staff/Devs that put in the hard work around here (and they are doing a good job) so they should be allowed to say who gets to use their hard work. Atleast thats just what i have to say, feel free to disagree.

From: Troll
Mistargnered, i would not be further from you, i belive that people being unbanned is for the staff and the staff only. Good Intentions can be hard to judge and easyly faked. Also its the staff/Devs that put in the hard work around here (and they are doing a good job) so they should be allowed to say who gets to use their hard work. Atleast thats just what i have to say, feel free to disagree.

@Mistargneered

Yeh i agree it should only be upto the Actual Members of Villavu
who gets banned /unbanned .. BUT i do also believe that
us non members that do contribute to Villavu in ways such as
Contributing to SRL/MSI or are frequently lending a hand to newcomers ,
Should if our intentions are known to be good ( Being trusted by the majority of the comunity )
have a say on the banning / unbanning of a user ..

The final decision should ALWAYS be decided by the True Villavu members / admin

this way everyone that deserves " The Right " to have a say still gets
to have some say in how the community they CONTRIBUTE towards, is run.

Does this sound Fare and manageble ?

From: Troll
Mistargnered, i would not be further from you, i belive that people being unbanned is for the staff and the staff only.

I am inclined to agree in most occasions. However not everyone does. As I said earlier my script was more of a medium of various points brought up by others. Now i'm going to play devil's advocate with you.

Some feel that they have a right to judge the people that engage in their community. To some extent they do. For example when a registered sex offender enters your neighborhood they have to notify all the neighbors. Or assume a known terrorist boards your train, and instead of being detained he is allowed to board. Would you not feel violated? Would you not feel as if your voice should be heard and the terrorist should be removed?

From: Troll
Good Intentions can be hard to judge and easyly faked.

It isn't so much as the banned users true intentions as the perceived intentions by the community. Again averaging the intentions is simplistic but effective it creates a window into the mind of the communities perception of a user.

From: Troll
Also its the staff/Devs that put in the hard work around here (and they are doing a good job) so they should be allowed to say who gets to use their hard work.

The president makes executive decisions, armies fight for their countries, state and city officials govern. Yet when it comes down to it everyone gets a vote for major decisions. Not just the president, army, or officials.(how it supposed to work in a democracy )

I cannot attest to the violations that named banned members in this thread (don't feel like looking up names right now). I am greatly generalizing these issues, to encapsulate a broader spectrum of violations. So I am talking about all sorts of banned users like excessive offenses towards other members. There is no hard work involved, beside closing/deleting threads/posts and eventually banning them. Again at the time I wrote that I was thinking widescale versus individual scenarios.

I'm not saying everyone should vote for every ban. However when a banned person has affected a large amount of people (numbers are up for debate) it is important that the community feels safe and happy with their decision. In the end that's what really matters.

Now on to the matter of how much weight a dev/mod/admin/whoeversinchargehere opinion should carry. I feel that in the event a format like this would be implemented, they should carry at least 5x that of the average member.

From: sm0k3
@Mistargneered

Yeh i agree it should only be upto the Actual Members of Villavu
who gets banned /unbanned .. BUT i do also believe that
us non members that do contribute to Villavu in ways such as
Contributing to SRL/MSI or are frequently lending a hand to newcomers ,
Should if our intentions are known to be good ( Being trusted by the majority of the comunity )
have a say on the banning / unbanning of a user ..

The final decision should ALWAYS be decided by the True Villavu members / admin

this way everyone that deserves " The Right " to have a say still gets
to have some say in how the community they CONTRIBUTE towards, is run.

Does this sound Fare and manageble ?

Agreed.

edit :sry for double post wasn't paying attention.

From: Mistagnerd
I am inclined to agree in most occasions. However not everyone does. As I said earlier my script was more of a medium of various points brought up by others. Now i'm going to play devil's advocate with you.

Some feel that they have a right to judge the people that engage in their community. To some extent they do. For example when a registered sex offender enters your neighborhood they have to notify all the neighbors. Or assume a known terrorist boards your train, and instead of being detained he is allowed to board. Would you not feel violated? Would you not feel as if your voice should be heard and the terrorist should be removed?



It isn't so much as the banned users true intentions as the perceived intentions by the community. Again averaging the intentions is simplistic but effective it creates a window into the mind of the communities perception of a user.



The president makes executive decisions, armies fight for their countries, state and city officials govern. Yet when it comes down to it everyone gets a vote for major decisions. Not just the president, army, or officials.(how it supposed to work in a democracy )

I cannot attest to the violations that named banned members in this thread (don't feel like looking up names right now). I am greatly generalizing these issues, to encapsulate a broader spectrum of violations. So I am talking about all sorts of banned users like excessive offenses towards other members. There is no hard work involved, beside closing/deleting threads/posts and eventually banning them. Again at the time I wrote that I was thinking widescale versus individual scenarios.

I'm not saying everyone should vote for every ban. However when a banned person has affected a large amount of people (numbers are up for debate) it is important that the community feels safe and happy with their decision. In the end that's what really matters.

Now on to the matter of how much weight a dev/mod/admin/whoeversinchargehere opinion should carry. I feel that in the event a format like this would be implemented, they should carry at least 5x that of the average member.

Yes, i can see how you would want to people to be able to vote however poeple lower down do not tend to see the big scheme of things. Maybe if it affects people in such away like helps lots for everyone and just annoys the staff then maybe it should be talked about in a public thread however the lower down people would not know about he has abused the staff and then both sides could say the other is lieing.

I think maybe people should be allowed to ask why people are banned but 9 times out of 10 i cant see why people like us would have a good reason why they should of not been banned.

So, i cant really come up with an answer but i think it should just be the staff, however i can see why other people should have a say just not so much. So dont know, but i can see where you are coming from, however i would like to know more why people are banned, its weird when people are just banned and i dont know why.

The fact is that there's lots of stuff which goes on in higher boards which can't be seen by lower ranked members, hence not them not being able to clearly understand the situation and vote accordingly.

From: Rich
The fact is that there's lots of stuff which goes on in higher boards which can't be seen by lower ranked members, hence not them not being able to clearly understand the situation and vote accordingly.

I was trying to get at that, i just could'nt get it into words for some reason. :)

From: Rich
The fact is that there's lots of stuff which goes on in higher boards which can't be seen by lower ranked members, hence not them not being able to clearly understand the situation and vote accordingly.

Yes i can agree with that rich ..

that is why, i said the Higher members should ALWAYS have the last say .

but other lower level members DO still have valid points to make .
on other Past occurences witch may have happened in the public forums . these possible other occurences may have been overlooked or miss-understood by some of the members,

While this isn't to say that Members Shouldnt be the only people responsible
for the banning of users of this community
i feel that depriving the people who are not as high ranked members ( but are still making a valid contribution to the community and are " trusted ") from having their say actualy taken notice of , then people would not feel part of the community .

you cant deny there are people who havent got the rank of SRL Member
but are still loved, trusted, friends of villavu,
that i think deserve their say

.

Here is my 2 cents on the staff.

I dislike them in ways that i see them as ignorant assholes who know it all.

The staff reminds me of my boss at Pizza Hut. If anyone gives an idea for productivity, he doesn't listen and rants on how its fine the way it is.

In other words, hes a fucking lazy mother fucker who's biased on his ideas only.

That's the way I see the staff now.

I don't want to the hear this BS about " we have personal lives, blah blah blah"

If you had personal lives you wont log onto this forum every day to give your 2 cents on a procedure that someone created, and call it "not good, or we already have it. nice try now gtfo."

Example:

http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64075

Seriously, come on.

Get your act together.

Just my 2 cents as this is how I still see the staff cents Cstrike was bashed away.

Just sayin.

Squancy, if you keep talking about cstrike, let's say he was completely wrong on the technical side he was complaining at. 'ADD INTERFACES TOOO SMART PLEEAAASEEE', while SMART already supported it, just reflection didn't.
Prove me wrong.
Also, if he was right, why would he leave? This community is about learning, if he really wanted to he could grab SMART's source (yes, it's FOSS now) and add it himself (f it was actually missing)..
Also, if he really wanted to accomplish something, why would he leave when one admin (who isn't involved at all in staff decisions) complained a bit about his whine-babying?
Please clarify, in my opinion it just shows a lack of self-confidence and choosing the way with the least resistance. Going away.
All (except one) of the staff didn't have a problem with cstrike at all. Please don't generalize too much. Talk him to go back if he's got the guts to! We'll welcome him.

From: Overtime
Here is my 2 cents on the staff.

I dislike them in ways that i see them as ignorant assholes who know it all.

The staff reminds me of my boss at Pizza Hut. If anyone gives an idea for productivity, he doesn't listen and rants on how its fine the way it is.

In other words, hes a fucking lazy mother fucker who's biased on his ideas only.

That's the way I see the staff now.

I don't want to the hear this BS about " we have personal lives, blah blah blah"

If you had personal lives you wont log onto this forum every day to give your 2 cents on a procedure that someone created, and call it "not good, or we already have it. nice try now gtfo."

Example:

http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64075

Seriously, come on.

Get your act together.

Just my 2 cents as this is how I still see the staff cents Cstrike was bashed away.

Just sayin.

What? The only staff member in that thread that your post applies to is RM, and he simply asked why there were so many similar names as there was in MSI..
YoHoJo and Markus weren't even on RM's side

Oh we already ranted enough about RM. He can't help it, please leave him out of it.
RM: you're doing fine atm :) But please, don't be too over-protective of MSI though it's your baby ;)

From: Markus
Oh we already ranted enough about RM. He can't help it, please leave him out of it.
RM: you're doing fine atm :) But please, don't be too over-protective of MSI though it's your baby ;)

I didn't mean that as a rant for RM btw, I like the way he is now

From: Overtime
Here is my 2 cents on the staff.

I dislike them in ways that i see them as ignorant assholes who know it all.

The staff reminds me of my boss at Pizza Hut. If anyone gives an idea for productivity, he doesn't listen and rants on how its fine the way it is.

In other words, hes a fucking lazy mother fucker who's biased on his ideas only.

That's the way I see the staff now.

I don't want to the hear this BS about " we have personal lives, blah blah blah"

If you had personal lives you wont log onto this forum every day to give your 2 cents on a procedure that someone created, and call it "not good, or we already have it. nice try now gtfo."

Example:

http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64075

Seriously, come on.

Get your act together.

Just my 2 cents as this is how I still see the staff cents Cstrike was bashed away.

Just sayin.

Why can't we have lives of our own? I don't get this part. If you're willing to pay me 40 dollars per hour I'll be happy to administer the forum all day. But as long as you won't, I'll stick to my five classes + thesis. You seem frustrated but I don't really get your point.

I don't think we try to put people down.

I've had my fair share of rants about the staff, as well as pretty heated discussions with some of them, but at the end of the day you've got the realise that the staff (believe it or not) are normal people just like you and I, with work, education, and families all taking time, and if need be, priority. Although SRL is a fantastic forum, the staff, just like everyone else, have 'bad days' when they're in a shitty mood, and some of their posts reflect that, but the fact is that the effort put in by the staff is brilliant. We may not be the biggest community out there, but we're definitely one of the most friendly and welcoming ones out there, and this is due to the ethos passed down in ranks. Without the staff that we have, we'd probably end up like Sythe where you can find the highest ranked members scamming.

Remember…

staff <> aliens
staff = humans

From: Markus
Squancy, if you keep talking about cstrike, let's say he was completely wrong on the technical side he was complaining at. 'ADD INTERFACES TOOO SMART PLEEAAASEEE', while SMART already supported it, just reflection didn't.
Prove me wrong.
Also, if he was right, why would he leave? This community is about learning, if he really wanted to he could grab SMART's source (yes, it's FOSS now) and add it himself (f it was actually missing)..
Also, if he really wanted to accomplish something, why would he leave when one admin (who isn't involved at all in staff decisions) complained a bit about his whine-babying?
Please clarify, in my opinion it just shows a lack of self-confidence and choosing the way with the least resistance. Going away.
All (except one) of the staff didn't have a problem with cstrike at all. Please don't generalize too much. Talk him to go back if he's got the guts to! We'll welcome him.

This wasn't about cstrike.

This was only how i started viewing the staff (Ben).

I don't mean the whole staff, I'm only pointing out how some may criticize to much on people work.

And i wasn't talking about Markus, or YohoJo on that thread. As i didn't want to mention names.

@wizzup; I would never in the right mind pay someone 40 dollars per hour to monitor letters, for 8 hours a day. Simply, because I don't want to be responsible for their crappy health problems that they will have.

I only mention that, because they seem to take 30 minutes out of their "busy" day to rant on something that they can find.

I don't have a complete list of where i have seen this, but their has been many times where i wanted to negative rep them for it.

I'm not frustrated at all, only annoyed as I have to bring this topic up once again.

And I figured it would fit perfectly in this thread.

@Rich I respect the staff, i really do. I don't hold a grudge on them all day long and think about how stupid am I for posting my opinions on the forums that will not matter. I know they have done a great job since I had first joined, I'm only pointing out the obvious to fix the obvious.

After all, that's what this thread is about.

From: Overtime
I only mention that, because they seem to take 30 minutes out of their "busy" day to rant on something that they can find.

I don't have a complete list of where i have seen this, but their has been many times where i wanted to negative rep them for it.

I'm not frustrated at all, only annoyed as I have to bring this topic up once again.

SRL costs me a lot more than 30 minutes per day on average. More like hours if you include working on Simba and Stats.

From: Overtime

I only mention that, because they seem to take 30 minutes out of their "busy" day to rant on something that they can find.

I see what you mean and I get your point (I sometimes have the same feeling), but you can't entirely compare browsing the forums and doing work for SRL. Personally, I find it hard to start working on something I know I need to take my time for, when I actually haven't got that much time. Browsing the forums is something you can do in between things.

Of course, I have much more spare time than I actually put into working for/at SRL. Sometimes I just want to do nothing or sometimes I want to do other things. As Rich said, staff <> aliens.

From: nielsie95
Of course, I have much more spare time than I actually put into working for/at SRL. Sometimes I just want to do nothing or sometimes I want to do other things. As Rich said, staff <> aliens.

BenLand100 and I beg to differ! :stirthepot:

From: Rich

staff <> aliens
staff = humans

From: Wizzup?
BenLand100 and I beg to differ! :stirthepot:

Fucking blowing our cover, man.

From: Overtime
I dislike them in ways that i see them as ignorant assholes who know it all.

I think you misspelled "arrogant"

From: Overtime

Just my 2 cents as this is how I still see the staff cents Cstrike was bashed away.

since*
Also, any bashing that may or may not have occurred was warranted, even if you do not see the reasoning behind it. Talking about things you don't understand is a bad idea.

From: Overtime
This was only how i started viewing the staff (Ben).

Aww, he called me THE STAFF, which I guess means I own the place now. :D

(please don't be offended or angered in any way, that would make me win, after all. Also, this took much less than 30 min to find and rant about, so your estimates might be a bit off)

<3 Wizzy
<3 BenLand

<3 The Haters……

Why haven't the administrators put in a vending machine in the lobby? I mean, when I log in, I'm in the lobby, and I would like a soda while I browse the sections.

Agreed?

From: cool aide
why haven't the administrators put in a vending machine in the lobby? I mean, when i log in, i'm in the lobby, and i would like a soda while i browse the sections.

Agreed?

OH YEAAH! a

@ Benland

Nuff said.

I feel the (a) staff (member) could be more understanding towards one's views and opinions, and discuss it with them in a way that isn't condescending.

I'm not naming anyone, but I hope they know who they are and learn how to handle people and their feelings/views better.

From: Cool Aide
Why haven't the administrators put in a vending machine in the lobby? I mean, when I log in, I'm in the lobby, and I would like a soda while I browse the sections.

Agreed?

Agreed.

From: Cool Aide
Why haven't the administrators put in a vending machine in the lobby? I mean, when I log in, I'm in the lobby, and I would like a soda while I browse the sections.

Agreed?

Same, has to be done

From: Overtime

I don't have a complete list of where i have seen this, but their has been many times where i wanted to negative rep them for it.

Why don't you then ;)?

From: 1337w33d
I feel the (a) staff (member) could be more understanding towards one's views and opinions, and discuss it with them in a way that isn't condescending.

I'm not naming anyone, but I hope they know who they are and learn how to handle people and their feelings/views better.

I agree completely, Wizzup has been rather out of control lately. I'll talk to him in confidence and see if he won't tone it down a bit.