SRL Archive - Archive

Camaro's Master -- Discussion


Nava2

2010-12-19 04:19:00

Well, I think most of us are aware that he now has the cup. The thread for this can be seen here: http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60873

After reading this thread, I immediately PM'd RM regarding this.

Firstly, I disagree with this granting. I believe that the code written here is substantial, definitely worthy of the Azreal, but is it worthy of a master cup? No. There are far more deserving people than he.

Although this happened, we cannot arbitrarily remove that cup, as that is unfair. My bigger issue is that this was done without any former discussion.

To RM, as I have stated in our PMs, I disagree completely with your justification and method in these regards. You took it upon yourself to arbitrarily dismiss the usual means of these such recognitions. You gave out one of the highest held cups to someone whom I, and several others, disagree with. While the giving out of the cup is a smaller issue, this appears to be a growing trend among staff as a whole.

The concept of a community is simple. Everyone is equal and contributes. While this may not work, and I really do no believe in it, I do believe that the opinion of everyone should be valued. The position of SSRL is meant to be advisors as well as a group of people to bring out knowledgeable opinions. Why are we not being used?

There have been several decisions now made behind closed doors that are influencing everyone and are also ignoring once stated roles. For example, SRL5 was kept behind closed doors in the Upper ranks from developers! This is being discussed else where, but I will use it here as a proof.

Why have staff started doing things like this? Why do we even have the ranks of SSRL and Developer if we are not going to be heard, nor even asked.

In closing, I would like to reiterate what I have said here. I believe that it was unjust to give out such a highly regarded cup in this situation. I also believe that the trend appearing of staff making decisions outside of the usual approach to be unnecessary and, frankly, rude. You place us in these positions, if you will not use them, why even bother?

Hobbit

2010-12-19 04:39:21

From: Nava2
While the giving out of the cup is a smaller issue, this appears to be a growing trend among staff as a whole.

[…]

There have been several decisions now made behind closed doors that are influencing everyone and are also ignoring once stated roles. For example, SRL5 was kept behind closed doors in the Upper ranks from developers! This is being discussed else where, but I will use it here as a proof.

Why have staff started doing things like this? Why do we even have the ranks of SSRL and Developer if we are not going to be heard, nor even asked.

In closing, I would like to reiterate what I have said here. I believe that it was unjust to give out such a highly regarded cup in this situation. I also believe that the trend appearing of staff making decisions outside of the usual approach to be unnecessary and, frankly, rude. You place us in these positions, if you will not use them, why even bother?


I just want to touch on the sections regarding the staff. You say there have been / are decisions being made behind closed doors. If they are closed doors how can you know what is going on? Also there really is no decisions being made. I too was very confused when the SRL 5 section suddenly appeared in the Staff section rather than Developers. I asked Wizzup but he did not know why and said to wait to see what RM says about it. I still do not know the reason behind it.

As of late, there have been what I feel as severe breakdowns of communication across all levels of our community. This has left many people feeling belittled, undermined, ignored, under appreciated, etc. This should not be happening.

RM has been trying to do a great thing, he has tried to bring management theology he has picked up and apply it to SRL. I do think his heart is in the right place in the decisions he is making, they are just not working for this community. We do not fit into the management model he is trying to form factor us around.

A lot of decisions have been made independently without any discussion with anyone lately. I do not doubt RM's abilities or mean this as a personal attack in any way, but I do believe he has left out the most important management function. Communication.


Note: These are my own personal opinions and should not be taken to represent the opinion of the rest of the Staff.

The Claw

2010-12-19 05:03:25

Yeah I was agaisnt it too, also agaisnt n3ss3s's master's (no offence, youre a mad scripter and stuff, just you got it for saying "posting to see if I have it" lol). Oh well, these things happen, RM is still a learning manager after-all :) Like we all are.

Either way, time for another RANT AGAISNT THE STAFF!

Nava2

2010-12-19 15:49:58

From: Hobbit
I just want to touch on the sections regarding the staff. You say there have been / are decisions being made behind closed doors. If they are closed doors how can you know what is going on? Also there really is no decisions being made. I too was very confused when the SRL 5 section suddenly appeared in the Staff section rather than Developers. I asked Wizzup but he did not know why and said to wait to see what RM says about it. I still do not know the reason behind it.


In regards to knowing what goes on behind closed doors, that is my point – we can not know. I only see what comes forth from these decisions. I agree that there are many staff decisions that should be made behind these doors, but when we have created roles such as Developer and SSRL and decisions which were typically opened to them are lost, it seems to me like things are not going in the proper manner. Frankly, I feel slightly insulted that we (Developers) were not informed about SRL5. While there may have been some disagreements, we always come to a decisions. From what I grasp of the topic now, everyone is on board with these decisions. To reiterate, the secrecy held here was not necessary.

Unfortunately, with this issue, not everyone can be in the loop. I agree. There are many different situations that should be left in the staff section (i.e. Frement's membership, new forums, etc.). I mention this because I do not want to seem naive to the fact that there are reasons for closed doors.

From: Hobbit
As of late, there have been what I feel as severe breakdowns of communication across all levels of our community. This has left many people feeling belittled, undermined, ignored, under appreciated, etc. This should not be happening.


I completely agree.

From: Hobbit
RM has been trying to do a great thing, he has tried to bring management theology he has picked up and apply it to SRL. I do think his heart is in the right place in the decisions he is making, they are just not working for this community. We do not fit into the management model he is trying to form factor us around.


Again, I agree with this. I do believe the intentions are right, but the implementations are wrong. While we are seeing improvements, a lot of us are left in the dust essentially wondering ``what the–.'' While there are outcomes, there are also outcomes being decided upon which reflect our judgements and actions that we do not have a part in. We are a community, not a business. I propose we fix that as soon as possible.

From: Hobbit
A lot of decisions have been made independently without any discussion with anyone lately. I do not doubt RM's abilities or mean this as a personal attack in any way, but I do believe he has left out the most important management function. Communication.


Well said.

From: Hobbit
Note: These are my own personal opinions and should not be taken to represent the opinion of the rest of the Staff.


Point noted? heh.

On the whole, thanks Chris, that was a nice read and I appreciate the time taken. :)

@Karl, some things are better left in higher boards.. >.>

Wizzup?

2010-12-19 15:55:23

From: Hobbit
I just want to touch on the sections regarding the staff. You say there have been / are decisions being made behind closed doors. If they are closed doors how can you know what is going on? Also there really is no decisions being made. I too was very confused when the SRL 5 section suddenly appeared in the Staff section rather than Developers. I asked Wizzup but he did not know why and said to wait to see what RM says about it. I still do not know the reason behind it.


This is not true. I know perfectly well why we had that section for awhile - as also pointed out in the developers thread - and it has served its purpose.

From: Hobbit
As of late, there have been what I feel as severe breakdowns of communication across all levels of our community. This has left many people feeling belittled, undermined, ignored, under appreciated, etc. This should not be happening.


Personally, I think you're just missing out on the communication because you haven't been active until recently.

From: Hobbit

RM has been trying to do a great thing, he has tried to bring management theology he has picked up and apply it to SRL. I do think his heart is in the right place in the decisions he is making, they are just not working for this community. We do not fit into the management model he is trying to form factor us around.


I think RM is doing a great thing, not just trying to.

From: Hobbit

A lot of decisions have been made independently without any discussion with anyone lately. I do not doubt RM's abilities or mean this as a personal attack in any way, but I do believe he has left out the most important management function. Communication.


Actually, cups were never really discussed if a staff member (Read: Admin) handed them out because it was normally done sanely. Camaro and n3ss3s are just an exception.

@Nava: "I propose we fix this?"

Nava2

2010-12-19 15:58:43

From: Wizzup?
@Nava: "I propose we fix this?"


Last I checked this was an issue mainly of communication. Thus I believe we to be a perfectly good qualifier here. It takes everyone to make a change.

Hobbit

2010-12-19 16:22:22

From: Wizzup?
This is not true. I know perfectly well why we had that section for awhile - as also pointed out in the developers thread - and it has served its purpose.


It is true what you said to me.

From: Wizzup?
Personally, I think you're just missing out on the communication because you haven't been active until recently.


Just because I have been less active does not mean I haven't caught up on my reading.


From: Wizzup?
Actually, cups were never really discussed if a staff member (Read: Admin) handed them out because it was normally done sanely. Camaro and n3ss3s are just an exception.


That statement was not about the cups.

NCDS

2010-12-19 16:38:52

Honestly, I was very shocked when I saw Camaro with a masters cup. In fact, after it set in, I almost laughed a bit thinking: "He just got a masters cup with code that wasn't good enough to get him into MSI..?".

That kind of ruined the "status" of a masters cup in my opinion. We have the people who had a masters cup before who are capable of handling most any task necessary, and now we have someone with a masters cup who is capable of repeating the same very simplistic code.. That leaves a big gap… I can think of about 20 people right now that deserve the cup if Camaro's code is where the "standard" lies.

I see no problem with admins handing out less important cups such as helper or useful poster, but randoms dev, master, even scripter should all be discussed, or at least brought up.

My opinion anyways.

Sir R. M8gic1an

2010-12-20 11:29:47

Keep it simple stupid.

That's the first sentence I'd like to say. Furthermore, there's missing communication…? I haven't seen SSRL talking this much in a very long time.

To justify my actions, I protect myself with our Father's words :)
From: WT-Fakawi
And in everything you are about to engage…please keep the hierachical structure as it is. SSRL is imho just as dead as Dev's the inside forums… and they are all deviced for a reason.


IDEA 1: Yes please do. Grant them cups! I dont think you'd even have to ask for that. Fully trust your opinion. Like I said before….I use to do that every week, manually and secretly, without anybodies vote.


IDEA 4: Point of SSRL? Plenty great guys around, not scripters, but welcome additions to the team. RAM comes to mind, for instance. SSRL isnt that big either btw. Maybe add more SSRL's? Everyone that is active now, see if they are SSRL worthy.


IDEA 5: Stats linked to forum? That would be truly awesome. They only mayor drawback, and the reason wizz is not gonna do that is the huge risk of having your forumname and password inside the scripts you release. That has to be solved first!

Generally: good suggestions. I think apart from this things, the forums needs cleaning up, needs to be more transparant and help one click away.


And last but not least, several people said (this and other times) "There were more deserving people".

Maybe so. This means that perhaps there are cups missing, not that we gave out one cup too much.

~RM

marpis

2010-12-20 11:54:18

I strongly disagree too.
And the example code RM quoted there is actually worse than avereage developers code?
It's self-repeating "FindColorsTolerance -> SortTPA -> Click first"

That's the kind of thing we except from Members. I am truly amazed by this.

Narcle

2010-12-20 12:30:42

I'm with NCDS on this one. The master's cup is damn near on par with the Dev cup, some Dev's don't even have the master's cup! You don't just give Dev-ship/cups out as you will, its voted on.

I agree on voting for the higher achieved cups as mentioned, but scripters cup and the lesser ones aren't really a problem. The fact that a masters was given to a SRL member whose code is being criticized by Devs that don't even have a masters cup themselves who probably deserve a masters from their previous code already. That would definitely strike a nerve with me. "Oh I see this SRL member got a master's for code that's barely, if at all, 'innovative' yet look at all this awesome code I've done…"

I do believe 'innovation' is the primary qualification for a master's cup.

tarajunky

2010-12-20 12:42:14

Edit: Reconsidered…

TRiLeZ

2010-12-20 15:23:52

I strongly disagree on this matter. The code that RM posted on the thread where Camero was given the masters was just simple TPA walking. My TPA walking is way more complex than that.

I think that giving cups like Promising Newcomer, Tutorial Writer, Helper, Useful Poster, etc can be given without really being discussed among SSRL, but cups like this… don't you think it should be discussed?

Sir R. M8gic1an

2010-12-20 16:02:30

I think it should :D

Isn't that what we're doing right now?

See the thing is we have no clear rules on what is and what isn't…

We only even have a vague idea for what makes an SRL member, nevermind for what makes a master!

Sure, we know the masters by name……… but what did they master?


Oh and finally let me add…… has anyone tested Camaro's walking?

Cus apparently the walking he made for MSI's lumby swamp miner worked for 3h in a row without breaking. And it probably didn't work for more just because something else broke or the script was stopped.

What did Camaro master? Walking between two points in one line.

WalkTo(SortFrom, Offset, WhereTo: TPoint; Color, Tolerance: Integer)

He has mastered color walking.

I would actually like to see a competition between his color walking method and other methods we have done previously.


Or even better, I would like to use MSI's tracker to compare how well his walking method does in relation to any other method.

So if you wish to write a colour walking method for any location or just even path, how about you challenge Camaro for it, and find out through the test of fire who really has mastered walking?

You could even just design a simple path, like from Edgeville to Varrock, pass by all 3 banks and walk down to AK Bank.

I bet Camaro would only take a day to make a stable enough walk..

That's why he got a master cup.

~RM

NCDS

2010-12-20 16:07:55

From: Sir R. Magician
I think it should :D

Isn't that what we're doing right now?

See the thing is we have no clear rules on what is and what isn't…

We only even have a vague idea for what makes an SRL member, nevermind for what makes a master!

Sure, we know the masters by name……… but what did they master?


If you have a Masters cup you should be able to handle any task necessary (within reason of course). A master should quite simply have mastered the use of SRL for RS scripting.

Think of it this way, would you group Camaro's code with Narcle's? or Nava's? or yourself?

Camaro's code really doesn't even compare to a great number of people who aren't even masters.

Sir R. M8gic1an

2010-12-20 16:13:58

From: NCDS
If you have a Masters cup you should be able to handle any task necessary (within reason of course). A master should quite simply have mastered the use of SRL for RS scripting.

Think of it this way, would you group Camaro's code with Narcle's? or Nava's? or yourself?

Camaro's code really doesn't even compare to a great number of people who aren't even masters.


I'm sorry, but what have you mastered to know what mastering is?

I'd use Camaro's way of walking,

Just like Nava & Zephs reflection-obstacle walking is in MSI.

And my memory is having a hard-time PinPointing Narcle's code, but we've all used it before.

And we'd never question Wizzup's mastery. Why? Because we have all learnt from his code. He was our teacher / master.

NCDS

2010-12-20 16:30:22

From: Sir R. Magician
I'm sorry, but what have you mastered to know what mastering is?

Was I at any point talking about myself..? That's a pretty ignorant statement honestly. Why ask the question if your going to get defensive when someone posts their opinion? Because I don't have a masters cup my opinion doesn't matter?

There is no reason for you and I to 'talk' in a tone like that. I've always had a great deal of respect for you for what you've done for the community, and myself.

From: Sir R. Magician

I'd use Camaro's way of walking,

Just like Nava & Zephs reflection-obstacle walking is in MSI.

And my memory is having a hard-time PinPointing Narcle's code, but we've all used it before.

And we'd never question Wizzup's mastery. Why? Because we have all learnt from his code. He was our teacher / master.


Everyone has used/learned from someone else's code before. I'm asking if you would group your code with his when rating the skill level of it.

I'm in no way upset at you for granting him the cup if that's what it sounds like. I just feel things like that should be discussed (as you can tell).

Edit:
From: Sir R. Magician

Oh and finally let me add…… has anyone tested Camaro's walking?

Cus apparently the walking he made for MSI's lumby swamp miner worked for 3h in a row without breaking. And it probably didn't work for more just because something else broke or the script was stopped.

What did Camaro master? Walking between two points in one line.

WalkTo(SortFrom, Offset, WhereTo: TPoint; Color, Tolerance: Integer)

He has mastered color walking.

I would actually like to see a competition between his color walking method and other methods we have done previously.


Or even better, I would like to use MSI's tracker to compare how well his walking method does in relation to any other method.

So if you wish to write a colour walking method for any location or just even path, how about you challenge Camaro for it, and find out through the test of fire who really has mastered walking?

You could even just design a simple path, like from Edgeville to Varrock, pass by all 3 banks and walk down to AK Bank.

I bet Camaro would only take a day to make a stable enough walk..

That's why he got a master cup.

~RM

90% of SRL's active members could write the same thing.

Every script I have ever written has used 100% color walking and produced progress reports > 8 hours on average, but I wouldn't consider them 'master quality', nor would I expect to receive a masters cup for writing them. Simply because it is normal TPA Walking, and a very common method.

Like marpis mentioned, Camaro's use of TPA walking here is something any average SRL Member would be expected to post. I don't even think you could possibly walk with TPA's in a simpler way.

Either way, I'm not trying to attack you or piss you off at all, I'm just discussing.

and just so you know, I'm the one who had that 3 hr run with his walking and I'm quite positive I had told him that I had to 'help' it a few times.

Wanted

2010-12-20 18:53:50

From: Sir R. Magician
Isn't that what we're doing right now?


No.

In order for these discussions to actually have a point to them, they need to be done beforehand. It makes no sense to do something, especially something no one wants to reverse (like removing Camaro's cup) then let people decide what they think.

I think whats to be learned from this isn't what a master is. A master is someone who is clearly skilled to all above others. I was excited to see Camaro receive a master's cup then I was only confused to see supporting evidence. Obviously there were/are other more deserving people. Obviously anyone who has the skill to earn a randoms cup should also be a master. Anyone who creates a script or technique that is complex and previously sought to be impossible deserves a master cup. Someone who makes a walking in a script but uses standard techniques to a good ability deserves props and a scripter's cup and some recognition, but not a masters cup, especially not without being discussed/polled at all previously to it happening.

What is to be learned from this is that discussions like these need to be made before actions are taken from now on. Recent things in the development boards would be another example of this.

Anyways, this isn't really that big of a deal. Camaro will live up to what he has been given, and hopefully those who make decisions will learn to jump the gun less.

Focus on the future, live and let learn.

lordsaturn

2010-12-20 19:44:44

I remember seeing Camaro's method in one of fakawi's scripts. point is, it's been around a while. no offense fakawi ;)

Sir R. M8gic1an

2010-12-20 21:38:20

From: lordsaturn
I remember seeing Camaro's method in one of fakawi's scripts.


Interesting. I don't remember that…

~RM

lordsaturn

2010-12-20 21:45:02

From: Sir R. Magician
Interesting. I don't remember that…

~RM


Check this out: http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?p=231185#post231185

The Claw

2010-12-20 22:02:36

Might be worth noting Zeph wrote that 6 months after joining, and he wouldnt of gotten Masters for writing it

marpis

2010-12-21 00:56:16

From: Sir R. Magician

Cus apparently the walking he made for MSI's lumby swamp miner worked for 3h in a row without breaking. And it probably didn't work for more just because something else broke or the script was stopped.

What did Camaro master? Walking between two points in one line.


I think if color walking in a script doesn't work for 3 hours, it's really badly flawed.
Zephs lumbridge Yew cutter truly showed mastering the skill of color walking. Camaro's nothing compared to that.

From: Sir R. Magician

I would actually like to see a competition between his color walking method and other methods we have done previously.

~RM

See comment above about Zeph. Also, IceFire's RC???
Also mixter's worldwalker was quite impressive, eventhough it required opening the worldmap ingame.

My project, Galileo, not only quite perfectly finds your location on the worldmap by comparing bitmap colors to the rs worldmap with 100% zoom, that's been predownloaded to /SRL/SRL/, it also finds a path from your current location to another, and walks it.
Straight line walking? No.

You have 2 maps: the normal worldmap used for finding your location, and walkingmap, where you just colour the walkable parts with blue color and Galileo makes a map out of the blue area by itself. I'll be making it work with multiple maps, and the user defines which of them to use, to improve speed.

All I need now is a plugin and 1 minor bugfix.

program Galileo;
{.include SRL/SRL.scar}
{.include SRL/SRL/misc/debug.scar}

//{$LOADLIB GalileoProjekti.dll}

const
GALILEO_PATH_MAP = AppPath + '/Includes/SRL/SRL/galileomap.bmp';
GALILEO_PATH_WALKINGMAP = AppPath + '/Includes/SRL/SRL/galileowalkingmap.bmp';

GALILEO_WALKABLECOLOR = 16711680;

GALILEO_TOL_MAX = 0.6;
GALILEO_TOL_MIN = 0.4;
GALILEO_TOL_STEP = 0.1;

GALILEO_FAIL_MAX = 120;
GALILEO_FAIL_MIN = 60;
GALILEO_FAIL_STEP = 20;

var
Galileo_Loaded: boolean;
Galileo_Worldmap: Array of Array of Array of Integer;

function Galileo_MakeColorBoxEx(bmp, x1, y1: integer): Array of Integer; //[0]=Red [1]=Green [2]=Blue
var
x, y: integer;
R, G, B: integer;
begin
SetLength(Result, 3);

for x := x1 to (x1 + 5) do
for y := y1 to (y1 + 5) do
begin
try
ColorToRGB(FastGetPixel(bmp, x, y), R, G, B);
Result[0] := Result[0] + R;
Result[1] := Result[1] + G;
Result[2] := Result[2] + B;
except
writeln('ColorToRGB exception: '+inttostr(x)+', '+inttostr(y));
end;
end;
end;

function Galileo_MakeColorBox(x1, y1: integer): Array of Integer;
var
bmp: integer;
begin
CopyClientToBitmap(bmp, x1, y1, x1+5, y1+5);
Result := Galileo_MakeColorBoxEx(bmp, x1, y1);
FreeBitmap(bmp);
end;


function Galileo_ColorBoxesMatch(B1, B2: Array of Integer; tol: extended): boolean;
begin
if (B1[0] >= Round(B2[0]*(1-tol))) and (B1[0] <= Round(B2[0]*(1+tol))) then
if (B1[1] >= Round(B2[1]*(1-tol))) and (B1[1] <= Round(B2[1]*(1+tol))) then
if (B1[2] >= Round(B2[2]*(1-tol))) and (B1[2] <= Round(B2[2]*(1+tol))) then
begin
Result := True;
Exit;
end;
end;



function Galileo_BitmapToMap(bmp: integer): Array of Array of Array of Integer;
var
X, Y, HighX, HighY, timer: integer;
begin
timer := getsystemtime;

GetBitmapSize(bmp, HighX, HighY);

HighX := Floor(HighX / (5.0));
HighY := Floor(HighY / (5.0));

for X := 0 to HighX-1 do
begin
SetLength(Result, HighX);
for Y := 0 to HighY-1 do
begin
SetLength(Result[X], HighY);
Result[X][Y] := Galileo_MakeColorBoxEx(bmp, X*5, Y*5);
end;
end;
end;


function Galileo_GatherMinimap: Array of Array of Array of Integer;
var
bmp: integer;
begin
CopyClientToBitmap(bmp, MMCX-50, MMCY-50, MMCX+50, MMCY+50);
Result := Galileo_BitmapToMap(bmp);
FreeBitmap(bmp);
end;


function Galileo_FindMapInMapExx(LargeMap, SmallMap: Array of Array of Array of Integer; tol: extended; MaxFails: integer): TPoint;
var
x, y, HighX, HighY: integer;
xx, yy: integer;
Matching: integer;
begin
Result := Point(-1, -1);

HighX := High(LargeMap);
HighY := High(LargeMap[0]);

for x := 0 to HighX do
for y := 0 to HighY do
if Galileo_ColorBoxesMatch(LargeMap[x][y], SmallMap[0][0], tol) then
begin
Matching := 0;
try
// top left matches, let's compare the others
for xx := 0 to 19 do
for yy := 0 to 19 do
if Galileo_ColorBoxesMatch(LargeMap[x+xx][y+yy], SmallMap[xx][yy], tol) then
Inc(Matching);

//writeln('matching: '+inttostr(matching));
if Matching >= (400 - MaxFails) then // 20*20 = 400
begin
Result.X := x + 10; // +10 cause we want the center
Result.Y := y + 10;
Exit;
end;
except
end;
end;
end;



function Galileo_FindMapInMapLoop(SmallMap, LargeMap: Array of Array of Array of Integer; mintol, maxtol, tolstep: extended; minfails, maxfails, failsstep: integer): TPoint;
var
fails: integer;
tol: extended;
begin
tol := mintol;
while (tol < maxtol) do
begin
fails := minfails;
while (fails < maxfails) do
begin
Result := Galileo_FindMapInMapExx(LargeMap, SmallMap, tol, fails);
if (Result.X > 0) and (Result.Y > 0) then
Exit;
fails := fails + failsstep;
end;
tol := tol + tolstep;
end;
end;



function Galileo_FindPosition(var X, Y: integer): boolean;
var
P: TPoint;
Minimap: Array of Array of Array of Integer;
t, bmp: integer;
begin
t := getsystemtime;
Minimap := Galileo_GatherMinimap;
t := getsystemtime - t;
writeln('[GALILEO] Minimap built in '+inttostr(t)+' ms.');

if (not Galileo_Loaded) then
begin
t := getsystemtime;
bmp := LoadBitmap(GALILEO_PATH_MAP);
Galileo_Worldmap := Galileo_BitmapToMap(bmp);
FreeBitmap(bmp);
Galileo_Loaded := True;
t := getsystemtime - t;
writeln('[GALILEO] Worldmap built in '+inttostr(t)+' ms.');
end;

t := getsystemtime;
P := Galileo_FindMapInMapLoop(Minimap, Galileo_Worldmap, GALILEO_TOL_MIN, GALILEO_TOL_MAX, GALILEO_TOL_STEP,
GALILEO_FAIL_MIN, GALILEO_FAIL_MAX, GALILEO_FAIL_STEP);
if (P.X > 0) and (P.Y > 0) then
begin
Result := True;
X := P.X;
Y := P.Y;
end;
t := getsystemtime - t;
writeln('[GALILEO] Positioning finished in '+inttostr(t)+' ms. Result = '+booltostr(Result)+', Location = ('+inttostr(x)+', '+inttostr(y)+')');
end;




{ =============================================================================]


G A L I L E O
T R A V E L E R


{ =============================================================================}



type
T2DBooleanArray = Array of Array of Boolean;

var
Galileo_WalkingMap: T2DBooleanArray;


function Galileo_BuildWalkingMap(ColouredMapPath: string; WalkableColor: integer): T2DBooleanArray;
var
bmp, x, y, h, w: integer;
i: integer;
C: T2DIntegerArray;
begin
bmp := LoadBitmap(ColouredMapPath);
GetBitmapSize(bmp, w, h);
w := Floor(w / 5.0);
h := Floor(h / 5.0);
SetLength(Result, w);

for x := 0 to w - 1 do
begin
SetLength(Result[x], h);
for y := 0 to h - 1 do
begin
C := GetBitmapAreaColors(bmp, x*5, y*5, (x+1)*5, (y+1)*5);
for i := 0 to high(C) do
if InIntArray(C[i], WalkableColor) then
begin
Result[x][y] := True;
Break;
end;
end;
end;

Writeln('[GALILEO] Walkingmap dimension = '+inttostr(w)+' x '+inttostr(h));
FreeBitmap(bmp);
end;


procedure Galileo_LoadWalking;
begin
Galileo_WalkingMap := Galileo_BuildWalkingMap(GALILEO_PATH_WALKINGMAP, GALILEO_WALKABLECOLOR);
end;


function Galileo_FindPathEx(Start, Destination: TPoint; var TPA: TPointArray): T2DBooleanArray;
var
Current: TPoint;
Distances: TExtendedArray;
modx, mody: TIntegerArray;
Possible: TBooleanArray;
i, Best, L: integer;
begin
SetLength(Distances, 8);
SetLength(Possible, 8);
modx := [-1, -1, -1, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1];
mody := [-1, 0, 1, -1, 1, -1, 0, 1];

Current := Start;
TPA := [Start];

while Current <> Destination do
begin
for i := 0 to 7 do
begin
Distances[i] := hypot(Abs(Destination.x - Current.x - modx[i]), Abs(Destination.y - Current.y - mody[i]));
try
if (Galileo_WalkingMap[Current.x + modx[i]][Current.y + mody[i]] = True) then
Possible[i] := not PointInTPA(Point(Current.x + modx[i], Current.y + mody[i]), TPA)
else
Possible[i] := False;
except
Possible[i] := False;
end;
end;

for i := 0 to 7 do
if Possible[i] then
begin
Best := i;
Break;
end;

for i := 0 to 7 do
if Distances[i] < Distances[Best] then
begin
//writeln('Distances['+inttostr(i)+'] < Distances['+IntToStr(Best)+']');
if Possible[i] then
begin
Best := i;
//Writeln(' -> Also possible');
end;// else
//Writeln(' -> ...but not possible');
end;

L := length(TPA);
Current := Point(TPA[L-1].x + modx[Best], TPA[L-1].y + mody[Best]);

SetLength(TPA, L+1);
TPA[L] := Current;

//Writeln('Current = ('+inttostr(Current.x)+', '+inttostr(Current.y)+')');
if Length(Result) < (Current.x + 1)then
SetLength(Result, Current.x + 1);

if Length(Result[Current.x]) < (Current.y + 1) then
SetLength(Result[Current.x], Current.y + 1);

Result[Current.x][Current.y] := True;
end;

end;



function Galileo_FindPath(Start, Destination: TPoint): TPointArray;
var
Booleans: T2DBooleanArray;
t: integer;
begin
Galileo_LoadWalking;
t := getsystemtime;
Booleans := Galileo_FindPathEx(Start, Destination, Result);
t := getsystemtime - t;
Writeln('[GALILEO] Path calculated in '+inttostr(t)+' ms.');
end;

{==============================================================================]
DEBUGGING
{==============================================================================}

procedure Galileo_DebugPath(Start, Destination: TPoint);
var
bPath: T2DBooleanArray;
Path: TPointArray;
x, y, bmp, w, h: integer;
begin
Galileo_LoadWalking;
bPath := Galileo_FindPathEx(Start, Destination, Path);
bmp := LoadBitmap(GALILEO_PATH_MAP);
GetBitmapSize(bmp, w, h);

for x := 0 to High(Galileo_WalkingMap) do
for y := 0 to High(Galileo_WalkingMap[x]) do
begin
if Galileo_WalkingMap[x][y] then
RectangleBitmap(bmp, IntToBox(x*5, y*5, (x+1)*5, (y+1)*5), clBlue);
try
if bPath[x][y] then
RectangleBitmap(bmp, IntToBox(x*5, y*5, (x+1)*5, (y+1)*5), clRed);
except
end;
end;

DebugBitmap(bmp);
FreeBitmap(bmp);
end;


function Galileo_WalkTo(x, y: integer): boolean;
var
TPA: TPointArray;
I, H, sx, sy: integer;
cx, cy: integer;
begin
if not Galileo_FindPosition(sx, sy) then
Exit;
TPA := Galileo_FindPath(Point(sx, sy), Point(x, y));
cx := TPA[0].x;
cy := TPA[0].y;
H := High(TPA);
while (not Result) do
for I := H downto 0 do
if Distance(cx, cy, TPA[I].X, TPA[I].Y) < 7 then
begin
MouseFlag(MMCX - (cx - TPA[I].X)*5, MMCY - (cy - TPA[I].Y)*5, 0, 0, 2);
cx := TPA[I].x;
cy := TPA[I].y;
Result := I = 0;
if Result then
Break;
end;
end;


begin
SetupSRL;
Galileo_WalkTo(37, 16);
//Galileo_DebugPath(Point(131, 33), Point(37, 16));
end.

The Claw

2010-12-21 01:51:41

inb4 marpis gets Masters

Sir R. M8gic1an

2010-12-21 03:57:50

Galileo definitely looks good.

I just woke up. I'm too tired to draw up a picture of Camaro's method…

I'll just say that Camaro's method can be used with the walking method Boreas is currently developing.

And Camaro's method can still be developed further. We can click on a point with RoadColor, which is offset from a point with RockColor. This is why Camaro's method is so great.

We can center the click from anywhere. It can be done anywhere.


And hey, if someone else deserved masters….. I'm sorry I didn't notice. I'm glad I still notice some things tho.

~RM

Wizzup?

2010-12-21 06:42:25

From: IceFire908

Anyways, this isn't really that big of a deal. Camaro will live up to what he has been given, and hopefully those who make decisions will learn to jump the gun less.

Focus on the future, live and let learn.


This.

tarajunky

2010-12-21 13:00:02

Anyways, this isn't really that big of a deal. Camaro will live up to what he has been given, and hopefully those who make decisions will learn to jump the gun less.


Like Obama's Nobel Peace Prize? LOL. I guess I'm okay with that.

Nava2

2010-12-21 13:35:03

From: tarajunky
Like Obama's Nobel Peace Prize? LOL. I guess I'm okay with that.


This is along the lines of what I was thinking. This is excessive and definitely not necessary.

I am all for staff cohesion, but why do some of you so readily agree like freaking sheep. Its not right.

Wizzup?

2010-12-21 14:06:45

I'm happy we're seen as Democrats rather than Republicans.

Nava, I think it is time for a revolution!!!

Seriously, at least they aren't thinking like sheep.

Hobbit

2010-12-21 14:13:08

Baaaaaaaah *munches on grass*

Nava2

2010-12-21 15:17:13

From: Wizzup?
I'm happy we're seen as Democrats rather than Republicans.

Nava, I think it is time for a revolution!!!

Seriously, at least they aren't thinking like sheep.


You were one of the people I was referring to as a sheep.

From: Hobbit
Baaaaaaaah *munches on grass*


You were not, but that made me crack up lmfao.

@RM why have you all of a sudden developed a massive ego. This is getting ridiculous and I do not understand where it came from. Its obvious many others agree with me when I say i really do not appreciate it.

Wizzup?

2010-12-21 15:51:06

From: Nava2
@RM why have you all of a sudden developed a massive ego. This is getting ridiculous and I do not understand where it came from. Its obvious many others agree with me when I say i really do not appreciate it.


I am not aware of any ego. It's just you acting ridiculous about this. Sure the cup was a bit misplaced, but I think we determined that a long time ago, no?
Honestly, I have no idea what kind of point you're trying to make as this hardly ever happens. The one time it does happen people start crying all over the place and saying there is a huge amount of miscommunication and stuff like this always happens. (sheep much?) What's the point? It's obvious the cup will not be revoked. Jealous? I really can't think of another reason. It's not like you've been active lately.

A mature person would have already seen what I just said and just live with it.

As Icefire previously said: "Focus on the future, live and let learn."

Nava2

2010-12-21 17:12:46

From: Wizzup?
I am not aware of any ego. It's just you acting ridiculous about this. Sure the cup was a bit misplaced, but I think we determined that a long time ago, no?
Honestly, I have no idea what kind of point you're trying to make as this hardly ever happens. The one time it does happen people start crying all over the place and saying there is a huge amount of miscommunication and stuff like this always happens. (sheep much?) What's the point? It's obvious the cup will not be revoked. Jealous? I really can't think of another reason. It's not like you've been active lately.

A mature person would have already seen what I just said and just live with it.

As Icefire previously said: "Focus on the future, live and let learn."


As you've singled me out, I will do the same. I think it is absolute bull when people take rash actions, and will not admit to their mistakes. Yes, I believe everyone makes them and its a part of life, but I cannot stand those who will just fall back and never admit that they were wrong.

We all make mistakes, but from my grasping of this, no one has admitted their mistakes. Its a load of skewed words and assumptions which is not fair.

I consider myself mature, and that was why I decided to make this post here and not in the public realm. Confronting someone for their actions is anything but immature.

The Claw

2010-12-22 00:33:50

From: Nava2
@RM why have you all of a sudden developed a massive ego. This is getting ridiculous and I do not understand where it came from. Its obvious many others agree with me when I say i really do not appreciate it.


Thats life, bro

Wanted

2010-12-22 02:10:15

From: tarajunky
Like Obama's Nobel Peace Prize? LOL. I guess I'm okay with that.


Hahaha Obama.

Nah I don't think that's quite comparable, he would of had to joined 2 weeks ago.

Naike

2010-12-22 17:57:41

RM is doing one hell of a job?

You should be glad that he's on our boat, paddling.

Sir R. M8gic1an

2010-12-23 09:52:21

Nava, imo it wasn't a mistake.

Is Camaro's code amazing? No. Point blank.

Do I believe he mastered a great technique? Yes.

Is the technique complicated enough for a masters cup? Not really, but it's backed up by other scripting ability.

Will it be revoked? No.

Will this cause good?
Most likely.
People realize that master's isn't impossible to get.
Camaro' will work harder, or at least he'll feel his effort is rewarded.

Is there more to this? Yes, there's always more to it.

Do I believe I made a mistake? No, I firmly believe in my actions.


Do you agree with my actions? No, which is why you question them.

Am I a wild maniac? Maybe, but it's ok so far lol.

Let's just get working on SRL 5. There's a lot more things I'd like to see happening and a lot of exciting possibilities. And you're one of the best active coders, so please join the boat :)

~RM

Markus

2010-12-29 08:43:55

From: Sir R. Magician
Is Camaro's code amazing? No. Point blank.


BOOM HEADSHOT. Finito. End of argument.
Masters cup: cup for people with amazing code. That's the fucking exact definition of it!


Do I believe he mastered a great technique? Yes.

Indeed, YOU believe so. I don't and there may be others with me.


Is the technique complicated enough for a masters cup? Not really,

So the code is far from amazing and isn't complicated at all. Master's cup is for pioneers of new amazing techniques (who invented them themselves) combined with amazing code. This both isn't.


Will it be revoked? No.

Agreed, cup revoking is bad. It shouldn't be handed out AND ESPECIALLY NOT WITHOUT POLLING.


Will this cause good?
Most likely.
People realize that master's isn't impossible to get.

Most unlikely: people will realize we give away free Masters cup with a bag of Doritos so it'll lose it's value.


Camaro' will work harder, or at least he'll feel his effort is rewarded.

When I got Masters cup I only got lazier because I finally got the last achievement I wanted ;)


Let's just get working on SRL 5. There's a lot more things I'd like to see happening and a lot of exciting possibilities. And you're one of the best active coders, so please join the boat :)

Evading the point.


Srsly RM what's up with you lately, staff is more than just you and it seems you make a lot of hasty decisisons based on your management theory blablablablabs but that's something I'll save for a later time.

Sir R. M8gic1an

2010-12-29 09:21:56

Markus, I am sorry if I offended your pixel ego in an attempt to raise activity and reward innovative code.

I am sorry if I offended all of your pixel egos. I think you all need to grow up and realize that it's just a cup.

If you were a better scripter / programmer before, you still are.

Unless you judge yourself by the number of cups you have.


All I did was inflate Camaro's pixel ego cus he develped a new technique.

Maybe I over-inflated his ego, but he already had a scripters cup.

And sometimes you have to give more to get more.


And by now that you've all bashed my decision of giving a master cup to Camaro, maybe we can get on with life.

ZephyrsFury

2010-12-29 10:00:16

Can we agree that the awarding of more prestigious cups such as Masters be discussed or at least mentioned before they are given out? I understand SSRL polls that take 2 months to be finalised can be frustrating so perhaps just a thread: "I want to give …. a cup, any objections?".

Nava2

2010-12-29 11:13:18

From: ZephyrsFury
Can we agree that the awarding of more prestigious cups such as Masters be discussed or at least mentioned before they are given out? I understand SSRL polls that take 2 months to be finalised can be frustrating so perhaps just a thread: "I want to give …. a cup, any objections?".


As far as an outcome of this thread is concerned, this is definitely the best one in my opinion.

@RM, there was no sense of pixel ego developed here, or at least it was not the intent. It was more to try and inform you that there are a lot of us who feel left behind. If you have gotten that from this, and are willing to try and change it then this thread was a success.

:)

Markus

2010-12-29 17:04:39

From: Sir R. Magician
Markus, I am sorry if I offended your pixel ego in an attempt to raise activity and reward innovative code..


RM, I am sorry if I'm taking this too personally, but this is clearly an Argumentum ad Hominem, and your management/debate/other-stuff-that-needs-to-be-apply-with-at-least-a-bit-of-common-sense books should say that that's the worst way to have a reasonable discussion or to get to at least some kind of agreement.

The reason I am heavily objecting it is not only because of you giving this cup, but again that you seem to be making some really controversial decisions lately because you think you can because you are an admin. That is right. The CEO has indeed a large amount of power in a company.
But he also got a board of directors to worry about. Large decisions about the future will usually have to be discussed with them. If the CEO begins exercising too much power and ignoring the board, he will have to back off, and in some cases, retire. Of course retiring doesn't happen all of a sudden and I am not even close to suggesting you do that. What I am suggesting however is that instead of going like "stuff should be rewarded lets do this" that you at least use your common sense.

The problem is that this isn't an isolated case. For example that thread you made in SRL Members about Tniffoc. First you created it, then only after I moderated it (because of some member being like wtf is happening) you actually asked 'Hmm shall we do this?'. Apologies accepted but again, imo you were too quick. The argumentation of it only came after it was asked.
Oh and if we're talking about Pixel Ego: asking for SRL Leadership requires a big one. Just had to get that off my back.

But before you think I am completely against you, I'd like to congratulate you with the many great things you did for SRL, especially your revival of MSI. I really look forward using it as I might return to autoing soon enough with wildy/trade update ;)


Btw, please don't take this too personally, and use it as positive criticism, not flaming,

Town

2010-12-30 13:07:22

From: Sir R. Magician
I think you all need to grow up and realize that it's just a cup.


I think the goal of this thread is to convince you otherwise. A commodity's value is based on the confidence in it by members of the community. Obviously, those that took the time to bring forward this argument have a significant amount of confidence in and respect for the Master's cup and believe that it is much more valuable than you seem to. I think everyone is trying to convince you to reevaluate you're opinion on the significance of this cup as most others in this thread have already come to a consensus.

It's important that you realize the significance of each cup as you have the power to change its significance if you reward it improperly, which will probably result in more of these situations. Think of it like inflation, or getting college degree only to have your previously respectable college change its curriculum and lower its degree requirements. Those that have the original degree worked harder towards a different goal but receive the same reward.

Anyway, I felt the need to post because I think you're a great admin, and I hope that you continue to do all of the great work that you do.