SRL Archive - Bot Information and Spottings

http://services.runescape.com/m=forum/forums.ws?14,15,234,61907168,goto,1

So a couple of chumps and their bad ideas think their RS vigilante bs is going to take down my script.

The thread is obviously directed directly at me since only a color bot would not be able to 'see' the mage if someone is standing on top of it.

Attack a skeleton quickly. Talk to the zamy mage, and let the skele hit you to knock you out of the onversation. Move the skele on top of the zamy mage. He has to be on top of the mage. Hit him if he isnt once, but have auto retaliate off.

Bots wont be able to find the zamy mage then and either run around in circles looking for it. Or just stand still.

Be prepared to encounter revs, the nice thing is that revs kill off the bots very easily

"Problem" 1 Mage is not visible.

Solutions: Search for skeleton, search for teleport text. Or just add a nice little reflection NPC id.

"Problem" 2 Attacked by revs.

Emergency teleport? Already been in place, smart..


Anyways I just thought this was funny.

tl;dr Runescape forum weaboos are as intelligent as a bunch of 8 year olds.

They ARE a bunch of 8 year olds. I laughed so damn hard at that entire thread.

Oh the urge to post there and laugh at him in his face… :p

Noobs… Noobs everywhere… :rolleyes:

im waiting for someone(mabye even a jmod) to say "has anyone ever heard of java?"

I love the way, as far as i know powerbot is the most used and this wont affect it :p

From: Troll Man
I love the way, as far as i know powerbot is the most used and this wont affect it :p

and since srl is the only color bot(mabye RiD, i dunno if they have a rcer), the thread is directed at IceFire

From: Awkwardsaw
and since srl is the only color bot(mabye RiD, i dunno if they have a rcer), the thread is directed at IceFire

From: Rsbots.net

. We (RSBots.net) use color and reflection.

Paid bots as well.

And they have an AutoRuneCarfter Pro

From: Troll Man
Paid bots as well.

And they have an AutoRuneCarfter Pro

almost no one uses rsbots.net, they have a nack for being utterly slow and visually detectable(the ones my friends used anyways)

i guess new botters use them

Oh never knew :p i thought they where good. Never used them though

From: Troll Man
Oh never knew :p i thought they where good. Never used them though

The scripts there are 'okay' but every single one of them has a glitch that messes the whole script up. Powerfishing sometimes doesn't work. Banking sometimes doesn't work. They just can't seem to keep their bots working in good shape.

Lol what a fail, cant keep good scirpts for money but we can do it for free ;)
Everyone here i great

This is great, as long as they think they are winning, they won't report. IceFire, you should add an autotalk when detecting the skeleton on top of the mage, like 'heh nice job, let's get those bots!' or 'thanks for keeping those bots away from me while I craft' (then switch worlds so they don't expect a conversation).

^ But only like 1/1000 times else it would be a bit weird. :)

From: Troll Man
^ But only like 1/1000 times else it would be a bit weird. :)

Yea absolutely, and one of several phrases at that, and let the user fill in the phrases.

Also on the thread a forum mod said "The problem with threads like this, information is provided to bot programmers as well. This will help them adjust their bots to prevent falling into this kind of trap….

Not cool to post stuff like this, as this gives them idea how to correct their mistakes."
5 days later, a couple of kids bump it.

I dare someone to post "bump for botters' sake".

From: Boreas
Yea absolutely, and one of several phrases at that, and let the user fill in the phrases.

Also on the thread a forum mod said "The problem with threads like this, information is provided to bot programmers as well. This will help them adjust their bots to prevent falling into this kind of trap….

Not cool to post stuff like this, as this gives them idea how to correct their mistakes."
5 days later, a couple of kids bump it.

Thats true, do they think we don't see those threads? xD


BTW if that ever did happen, and just one person reports it to the bot maker, it's instantly fixed.


Plus no one on those forums understand that BCEL/Reflection can beat anything Jagex throws at them besides modifying the NPC's almost completely. They could make the Mage be invisible and the name changed but java bots would find it.

IIRC, there was a bot that in vinesweeper would know exactly where the seeds/place flags were and would haul XP like no tomorrow without use of the #'s (until it became a hot ban spot for bots)

From: Cstrike
They could make the Mage be invisible and the name changed but java bots would find it.

That is exactly how to catch java bots.

From: Boreas
That is exactly how to catch java bots.

Problem is no regular players would find it and people would rage, or if they did put it side by side, the new one would have to have a different ID, and it'd probably be a null NPC which most wouldn't find. In addition, there are also color java bots that detect perfect colors as well– and there are also NPC model finders, which unless people can render invisible stuff then the model would return as empty and cause termination quite quickly… then it'd be patched immediately. Plus before the hooks were updated, people would spot that an NPC has a new skin and the update would be useless almost.

The autoing communities will never be stopped xD

From: Boreas
IceFire, you should add an autotalk when detecting the skeleton on top of the mage, like 'heh nice job, let's get those bots!' or 'thanks for keeping those bots away from me while I craft' (then switch worlds so they don't expect a conversation).

hahah

From: Cstrike
Problem is no regular players would find it and people would rage, or if they did put it side by side, the new one would have to have a different ID, and it'd probably be a null NPC which most wouldn't find. In addition, there are also color java bots that detect perfect colors as well– and there are also NPC model finders, which unless people can render invisible stuff then the model would return as empty and cause termination quite quickly… then it'd be patched immediately. Plus before the hooks were updated, people would spot that an NPC has a new skin and the update would be useless almost.

The autoing communities will never be stopped xD

If Jagex took Aubury, put him on a new ID, and made the old ID invisible, anyone that clicked the old ID would be flagged/banned. That is until someone goes around (everywhere every week) with a debgger and notices. But if it's different NPCs each week, (or if they have a way to make it only happen at random times,) it will take a while to spot. The communities in general will never be stopped, but that method will catch people who run an updater and get back to autoing as soon as possible.

From: Boreas
If Jagex took Aubury, put him on a new ID, and made the old ID invisible, anyone that clicked the old ID would be flagged/banned. That is until someone goes around (everywhere every week) with a debgger and notices. But if it's different NPCs each week, (or if they have a way to make it only happen at random times,) it will take a while to spot. The communities in general will never be stopped, but that method will catch people who run an updater and get back to autoing as soon as possible.

The fact is that running colour and reflection mix will be unstoppable, because if you make an invisible person, the players cant find it even though reflection could, and if you make different IDs the colour bots can find it even if reflection can't.

The point is that Jagex doesn't really care about getting rid of us as long as their user base is mostly happy. We don't make up a large percentage of the user base (IMO) and Jagex wont really care what we do until they get rid of the large leecher bots anyway.

Jagex have said that they dont ban ALL the macroers they catch yea? Perhaps if you're doing it right, they don't mind, they actually appreciate it…for example, over the past six months I've been botting range in 100m+ of gear (on and off, as in, bot for a month, dont for 2 months etc), and have come back many times to see "macroer?" in the report box etc. Would of been reported heaps.

Maybe if youre rich and are using good gear, they let you go..because it would be good for their business, if other people see a really rich account, it motivates them to try to do the same.

From: 3Garrett3
The fact is that running colour and reflection mix will be unstoppable, because if you make an invisible person, the players cant find it even though reflection could, and if you make different IDs the colour bots can find it even if reflection can't.

The point is that Jagex doesn't really care about getting rid of us as long as their user base is mostly happy. We don't make up a large percentage of the user base (IMO) and Jagex wont really care what we do until they get rid of the large leecher bots anyway.

Absolutely spot on!

Botters are the 'working' class of RuneScape. Without them, the other people wouldn't have any resources to work with.

From: Zyt3x
Botters are the 'working' class of RuneScape. Without them, the other people wouldn't have any resources to work with.

To echo Boreas: Absolutely spot on! :p It's crazy, just after big updates prices for raw materials start to skyrocket cause there's no botters to supply the goods. Luckily everything is usually updated fairly fast, heh.

@ The thread subject:
Don't you just hate it when preteen brats try to earn a little player moderator rank because they think it will make them godlike? That's the only reason people report "Wrong doings", anyway. They just want to be a player moderator.

A rank with a cardboard silver crown. Woohoo!

@ The RSBots.net / Paid bots like that comments:
Most of these websites are poorly managed and unprofessional resellers. RSBots.net does not have a nice community or anything that drags the user in to the forums. Sometimes people just stay on one forum and goes to a new one for botting, mainly because of the community.

The bots fail, yes. But that is only because the developers of the bots do not have time to check the reseller websites. They only manage their own website. Like Perfectius has his own poorly managed (In my opinion) website and so did Cody (CDog5000 or whatever his name was) before he was "Hacked" and was kicked off the developer list. He was the developer for the Slayer bot.

To really get good results with paid bots, you need to go straight to the developer communities and report the errors there. The reseller communities are just that. Resellers with no knowledge of Java and no intent on learning any. (Even though they resell Java coded bots. Imagine that, huh?)

From: Zyt3x
Botters are the 'working' class of RuneScape. Without them, the other people wouldn't have any resources to work with.

lol this made me laugh xD
not as much as the thread, but yeah those guys must be retarded?

The noobs. Noobs everywhere!!!!! They obviously know Di*k all about bots & how they work.

I mean could you not do an "if statement" to see if the npc is there, if not logout?
Or better yet, right click?

From: xSaintias
lol this made me laugh xD

Well.. That's the truth :)
It used to be "botters are your workers" now it's "the working class", bc of Jagex creating trade limits… >_<

After seeing that thread, it's no wonder I never get reported.

I posted in the thread.

People complain about how bots ruin the market, and complain that Nature Runes are too high in price. Well, RSBot went down for about a week, and guess what! Nature Runes were bought out and rising! I wish everyone could understand that bots keep the market prices low enough for the base population.

@Train your so right, they complain about high prices and say bots where as it should be 'The prices are too low because of bots' or 'The prices are too high we need bots' :p bots help keep the prices low, however they do make it harder for the normal player to get items and make money them selfs. Oh well bots have the upper hand and can do it 24/7 :p

Bots > People who have little/no lifes :p

I have to disagree with the general idea this thread is heading towards, whatever makes you think that "bots help the community," you're dead wrong. Bots might bright a few advantages (very few,) but the disadvantages it brings are beyond reason… and I'm talking about the general game public not self gain. But this topic has been covered already, there's really no need to get into it again.

Having that said, I bot myself because playing runescape is a complete grind (bots are part of the reason the game became a grind..,) and I love being able to log in, check out new gear I can wear or use, put on that gear… go pking, and after I'm done log out.

I think that if botting ended right now in all forms. The game would die. The reason being in that the grand exchanged would literally 'go dry' like an oil rig. People aren't going to want to go back to mining coal themselves or paying an extremely high price for it, people like being able to buy mass goods for cheap.

IceFire you are so right, yet people hate bots because they dont know that we help them, with out us they would be left with boring tasks or a high cost.
Bots = Game stays alive
No Bots = No game :p

From: Feroc1ty
(bots are part of the reason the game became a grind..,)

It is amazing how shortsighted you are, really.

Bots exist because the game is such a horrid grind, not the other way around.

From: Her0n
It is amazing how shortsighted you are, really.

Bots exist because the game is such a horrid grind, not the other way around.

Same goes to you, do you wish to see my reasoning, because I can guarantee you it will be better than yours and simply embarrass you in the long run.

I actually want to see how you support your idea Feroc1ty(bots made the game a grind)

From: Feroc1ty
Same goes to you, do you wish to see my reasoning, because I can guarantee you it will be better than yours and simply embarrass you in the long run.

Please, don't leave me in suspense.

From: Her0n
Please, don't leave me in suspense.

Was hoping you'd step down from the impending wall of text… actually I'm not in a mood for walls of text as I'm sick, but I'll just keep posting my points of view, and than you simply agree or disagree to them with a reason of doing so, okay?

• MMORPG is a massive multiplayer online role-playing game.
• The highest level(s) or best gear of the game are elementary, but highly renowned or envied players exists (whatever the reason, be it having best gear, best level, best anything… as you can see I'm being very general so it will fit any MMORPG)
• Generally, these said players have attributes which other players do not posses, but as other players begin to attain these attributes the elite crowd of players are expected to attain more and more of these said attributes.
• Eventually, as the game evolves, the elite group becomes the norm group (at this point the game releases some type of new patch, or dies)

I could go on for a while but time is of the essence… (just wanted to sound smart there LOL)

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is that as the standard slowly moves toward higher levels (the botters bump up the standard, as it invest time into the game without any actual effort from the player) legit players have a harder time keeping up.

That's my very general thought, and I can go into more depth.

(by the way removing free-trade encouraged botting, in my opinion)

I don't see how the points you just made had anything to do that implies botting made the game a grind.

Agreed, more accounts (controlled by humans or bots) leveling up will raise standards. So if jagex put out more advertising that would be making the game a grind.

From: Boreas
Agreed, more accounts (controlled by humans or bots) leveling up will raise standards. So if jagex put out more advertising that would be making the game a grind.

How so… accounts with a lot of time invested in them don't just "appear," accounts which are of higher prestige are the ones that raise the standard.

Of course they don't just appear, they take time to become higher prestige. My point is that whether a human or a bot is putting in that time, it still raises the standard.

From: Boreas
Of course they don't just appear, they take time to become higher prestige. My point is that whether a human or a bot is putting in that time, it still raises the standard.

Okay.

So, before runescape was filled with people of medium level… and everyone was fine with that, there were only a few level 120's (max at the time I believe) and they were highly honored, as the game went on the new standard is to have at least two 99's… Do you think this standard is realistic for a non-botting player?

Granted, when I played, I did not plan on getting any capes (when I botted I still didn't), because the amount of time required to do so was unrealistic for how much I liked the game. But there are some people out there who do care about meeting the standard and will put in that amount of time. Are you saying (all or most of) the players reaching the levels high enough to raise the standard are botting?

If that is the case (I'll take your word for it as I'm not hip enough to the scene to even know that there was a standard), then I suppose you can make the argument that standards raised by bots are part of the reason why people continue to grind away (with their own time or bots). However the game was a grind before bots, there were cheating forums before there were real bots. The game content is largely made up of small units that are repeated many times. Clicking a tin rock is the same as clicking a gold rock, which is the same as clicking a rune rock. It gets old way before even thinking about getting a 99.

From: Boreas
Granted, when I played, I did not plan on getting any capes (when I botted I still didn't), because the amount of time required to do so was unrealistic for how much I liked the game. But there are some people out there who do care about meeting the standard and will put in that amount of time. Are you saying (all or most of) the players reaching the levels high enough to raise the standard are botting?

If that is the case (I'll take your word for it as I'm not hip enough to the scene to even know that there was a standard), then I suppose you can make the argument that standards raised by bots are part of the reason why people continue to grind away (with their own time or bots). However the game was a grind before bots, there were cheating forums before there were real bots. The game content is largely made up of small units that are repeated many times. Clicking a tin rock is the same as clicking a gold rock, which is the same as clicking a rune rock. It gets old way before even thinking about getting a 99.

I personally don't have any skills over level 90, as I don't play the game much myself but rather practice scripting and enjoy PKing once in a while, but as I kept playing I noticed a trend of getting 99's… I actually spoke to a few people as to the reason why they invested their time doing so, basically they said it's the new trend (or a new standard.)

Getting a skill to 99 was supposed to be a HUGE achievement, they could have easily capped the skills at 80, or level 50, but they wanted level 99 to mean something (and it really doesn't anymore.)

I do agree on your part of the game being repetitive though.

From: Feroc1ty

MMORPG is a massive multiplayer online role-playing game.

Yes, that is what the acronym means.

The highest level(s) or best gear of the game are elementary, but highly renowned or envied players exists (whatever the reason, be it having best gear, best level, best anything… as you can see I'm being very general so it will fit any MMORPG)

Problem here is, the difference in attain such levels. A game where achieving max level in ONE skill takes upwards of hundreds of hours is simply INSANE. I have never played any game where the casual gamer could not hit max level unless playing for several years.

Generally, these said players have attributes which other players do not posses, but as other players begin to attain these attributes the elite crowd of players are expected to attain more and more of these said attributes.

In most games I play, the "elite" crowd were simply people who knew the game (skilled), not necessarily who grinded the most; which is a flaw in RS's design; most of it is a grind.

Eventually, as the game evolves, the elite group becomes the norm group (at this point the game releases some type of new patch, or dies)

But that is with any game; as gear, choices and everything are expanded; those who do not evolve no longer remain the elite party. No MMO remains stagnant.

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is that as the standard slowly moves toward higher levels (the botters bump up the standard, as it invest time into the game without any actual effort from the player) legit players have a harder time keeping up.

But that isn't the bot's fault; that's Jagex's fault for making the grind ridiculously stupid compared to everything else. If legit players can't achieve the same goal in a reasonable amount of time, then maybe jagex need's to review their efforts.

From: Her0n
Yes, that is what the acronym means.



Problem here is, the difference in attain such levels. A game where achieving max level in ONE skill takes upwards of hundreds of hours is simply INSANE. I have never played any game where the casual gamer could not hit max level unless playing for several years.


In most games I play, the "elite" crowd were simply people who knew the game (skilled), not necessarily who grinded the most; which is a flaw in RS's design; most of it is a grind.



But that is with any game; as gear, choices and everything are expanded; those who do not evolve no longer remain the elite party. No MMO remains stagnant.


But that isn't the bot's fault; that's Jagex's fault for making the grind ridiculously stupid compared to everything else. If legit players can't achieve the same goal in a reasonable amount of time, then maybe jagex need's to review their efforts.

I can't argue against someone who's completely biased and can't see both sides of the argument, there's really no point… by the way I read your arguments and most of the logic (if that's even the right word for it) is highly flawed.

From: Feroc1ty
I can't argue against someone who's completely biased and can't see both sides of the argument, there's really no point… by the way I read your arguments and most of the logic (if that's even the right word for it) is highly flawed.

You can also read this as:

I don't know how to rebut that.

From: Her0n
You can also read this as:

I don't know how to rebut that.

You can also that as:

Your points didn't even scratch the surface of my points, they just sidetracked the conversation from my points to your points, which are biased and untrue.

From: Feroc1ty
You can also that as:

Your points didn't even scratch the surface of my points, they just sidetracked the conversation from my points to your points, which are biased and untrue.

Then for the love of god point out the fallacies; you're not convincing anyone with this "you're wrong but I don't need to say why!" It just makes YOU look stupid.

From: Her0n
Then for the love of god point out the fallacies; you're not convincing anyone with this "you're wrong but I don't need to say why!" It just makes YOU look stupid.

In your eyes; and guess what, I really couldn't give less of a fuck what you think or see, I had a reasonable conversation with Boreas and he wasn't blind to my point of view, neither was I to his… talking to you is like talking to a wall.

From: Feroc1ty
In your eyes; and guess what, I really couldn't give less of a fuck what you think or see, I had a reasonable conversation with Boreas and he wasn't blind to my point of view, neither was I to his… talking to you is like talking to a wall.

I was starting a reasonable debate myself; you're the one shutting it out instead of countering my points.

From: Her0n
I was starting a reasonable debate myself; you're the one shutting it out instead of countering my points.

I shut it out because I thought it was ridiculous, but since you insist…

But that isn't the bot's fault; that's Jagex's fault for making the grind ridiculously stupid compared to everything else. If legit players can't achieve the same goal in a reasonable amount of time, then maybe jagex need's to review their efforts.

What isn't the bots fault, the fact that bots raise the standard to unreasonable heights? Or the fact that runescape has hundreds of hours of game-play, which in my eyes is completely reasonable, it's actually great that they have such a feat.

But instead of seeing the bright side of their system, you rather see it as a challenge, as if you must get that level 99, which is BEST level you can attain by the way. Your level 99's are supposed to be honored, they are supposed to be a huge achievement, heck, the best fucking achievement for the particular skill.

It's not like you NEED that level 99, for most of the skills the best shit you can do for the particular skill is at level 80's anyway, and if you ask me that isn't that fucking hard to get… and it all goes back to the game's populous standards, level 80 isn't great anymore because botters got their shit up to 99's without any time invested and don't realize that it's a huge damn achievement and task in itself, do you want me to go into more depth?

From: Her0n
But that isn't the bot's fault; that's Jagex's fault for making the grind ridiculously stupid compared to everything else. If legit players can't achieve the same goal in a reasonable amount of time, then maybe jagex need's to review their efforts.

^^^This my friend is the sole reason why bots were made.

From: Feroc1ty
Or the fact that runescape has hundreds of hours of game-play, which in my eyes is completely reasonable, it's actually great that they have such a feat.

It isn't gameplay in my eyes as it is simply repetitive tasks. If it was actual gameplay would you see as many bots doing it?

But instead of seeing the bright side of their system, you rather see it as a challenge, as if you must get that level 99, which is BEST level you can attain by the way. Your level 99's are supposed to be honored, they are supposed to be a huge achievement, heck, the best fucking achievement for the particular skill.

I want to ask a question. Have you ever played any other game besides runescape? Having near unachievable skills if you have some sort of life is a big put off; and people will use non-legitimate means to obtain them as you can see over the years.

It's not like you NEED that level 99, for most of the skills the best shit you can do for the particular skill is at level 80's anyway, and if you ask me that isn't that fucking hard to get… and it all goes back to the game's populous standards, level 80 isn't great anymore because botters got their shit up to 99's without any time invested and don't realize that it's a huge damn achievement and task in itself, do you want me to go into more depth?

Problem is we're not discussing what levels of skill is important (although this greatly varies from skill to skill; 99 attack/str/def/Constitution/thieving/agility being a lot more useful than 99 herblore/fletching/cooking/etc) but we're discussing whether or not the existence of bots created the grind. Which doesn't make much sense to me as why would bots exist in the first place if not to circumvent an un-fun, time-consuming, un-eventful grind?

To be honest jagex went in the right direction with Dungeoneering; scaling fun activities to do in a group, that requires active involvement, and is an incentive for the player to actually DO IT.

Edit: and you've been harping on about standards; what the hell do you mean? Standards created by player mentality? Just because something is higher than you doesn't make it a standard.

Ive explained very thoroughly what I meant by standards and if you don't understand it than… well fuck.

And indeed, we're discussing the fact that bots made the game a grind, and it's so because of a higher standard. As I've previously mentioned runescape is a massive multiplayer online game, and when bots earn experience, gold, gear, or whatever the fuck they earn the legitimate players have to compete against it, investing time which players who botted didn't have/need to put in.

Now im totally confused by both sides, could you both(heron and ferocity) just say your point in only one line?

From: kongking
Now im totally confused by both sides, could you both(heron and ferocity) just say your point in only one line?

I said it before: Bots exist because of the major grind.

I can see your side, but i don't see ferocity's side of the argument(that bots made the game a grind)

I'm pretty sure that bots have started turning the game away from a grind type atmosphere. Her0n made this point by mentioning the dungeoneering skill that was added. Also they seem to be spending alot of time doing more seasonal events and by adding alot of depth to the game through storylines and quests.

I don't think you can deny that runescape is a grind game because well…it is. Especially when it first started. But I really think its trying to stray as far away from that because of how prominent bots have become.

Feroc1tys standard arguement does make sense. However, by my general gaming standard, being able to click on an object over and over again does not make you an elite gamer, therefore I don't really have much respect for someone that have a bunch of 99 skills that they got legit because all that tells me is they have too much time on their hands.

If I'm reading this right, one of you is saying that the grind necessitates the bot; the other that the bot necessitates the grind. If I'm reading this totally wrong, then my apologies and please disregard anything else I'm about to say. Also, massive wall of text to follow:

I don't see how those arguments are opposing one another; in fact, I think they are each exactly half of the definition for RuneScape's largest problem: the self-fulfilling prophecy, or if you prefer, the arms race. Even since RSC, leveling skills has been a ****ing grindfest. Click rock, receive ore; click tree, receive logs; use needle on leather, receive chaps; use tinderbox on logs, receive fire; ect.

Some players go through the sheer tedium of mining 372,344 iron ores (yes, that's how many it takes to go 15-99), while others have a computer do it for them. The legit player gets to enjoy the thrill of reaching 99 on his own steam; the botter gets to enjoy sleeping and seeing the sunlight every once in a while. Both achieve the same result, but since the botter did not devote his own time to earning his 99, the result is cheapened. As people come to realize how much work it takes to get a 99, the masses begin to assume that everyone is lazy and that only botters can reach 99. The overall effect of reaching 99 has been cheapened, and the legit player's "achievement" (I put quotes around this because I don't see how mining the same iron rock 372,344 times makes someone great) is now undermined. JaGEx tries to combat this by forcing players to earn their levels without the use of bots, thus maintaining the "prestige" of earning the max level. Those who would rather use bots must then step their game up and use more advanced computing techniques. Thus is born the self-fulfilling prophecy/arms race. Let's look at a general example, RuneScape's timeline:

-RS is released, maximum level of skills is 99
-first attempts of botting involve mouse recorders and text replacers (auto-typers)
-JaGEx adds more chaotic elements to skills, making mouse recording obsolete
-bots are born, able to read in values from the game and perform repetitive actions
-JaGEx adds in Random Events. Their timing is not easily predicted, and their nature is completely random
-bots add in cases for each known random event, and bots constantly check for them
-JaGEx adds in an entire skill based on random generation (Dungeoneering)

The tl;dr - Bots were originally created because of the grind needed to obtain higher levels (the grind necessitates the bots). JaGEx responded by increasing the difficulty of the grind in order to deter bots (the bots necessitate the grind).

My prediction is that this RS-based Cold War will continue escalating until one side ultimately can't keep up. Either JaGEx will make the game unbottable (humans win–the less likely scenario), or bots will become advanced enough to make the decisions necessary to play the game entirely on their own (machines win–the more likely scenario). Either way, once one side wins, the game will die. Should JaGEx win the economy will collapse completely, and no one will want to make a self-sustaining character so everyone will stop playing; should the botters win, everyone will only "play" using bots or will quit upon realizing the futility of their own efforts.

From: dd409
JaGEx responded by increasing the difficulty of the grind in order to deter bots (the bots necessitate the grind).

What I want to know is how exactly did they do this?(Random events/skills do not count since they have been placed to stop bots). The game had max lvl of 99 before there were bots and it still has a max lvl of 99 even after the bots(so how did they make the game more of a grind?)

I actually want a self-sustaining character, and what's the point of mining 350K iron ores, you're supposed to use skills to gain gold or items, not to get a skill to level 99, or am I mistaken?

The reason people(some) bot skills to 99 do it because they want to sell their account to someone else after that(this pisses off jagex).

From: kongking
What I want to know is how exactly did they do this?(Random events/skills do not count since they have been placed to stop bots). The game had max lvl of 99 before there were bots and it still has a max lvl of 99 even after the bots(so how did they make the game more of a grind?)

I guess I don't see why Random Events and new skills shouldn't count. Because of Random Events, bots require more work and maintenance (whereas before randoms were introduced, bots required little post-release work and could run until doomsday). With the addition of Dungeoneering (the skill itself was heavily influenced by a counter-bot mentality, you can tell that through observation) there is now a skill with a max level of 120, which takes approximately 8 times longer to earn than reaching 99 (to be specific it requires 7.999825001950603 time the experience that level 99 does). I'd call that upping the grind for both bots and legit players.

A weak argument, sure, but that's how I see it.

From: dd409
-JaGEx adds in Random Events. Their timing is not easily predicted, and their nature is completely random

http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Random_Events

http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/User:Frede173/1000_Summer_sq%27irk_juices

From: doublex8
http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Random_Events

http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/User:Frede173/1000_Summer_sq%27irk_juices

Watching that makes me 100% certain that Random events occur when certain XP Limit is reached. That's why scripts like EC!'s Kebab buyer doesn't get any of them

E: Successfully solving a random increases the limit

From: Zyt3x
Watching that makes me 100% certain that Random events occur when certain XP Limit is reached. That's why scripts like EC!'s Kebab buyer doesn't get any of them

E: Successfully solving a random increases the limit

Could something be implicated that would know when you are definatly in a random so that there would be no confusion as to being in a random or out of range?

From: doublex8
Could something be implicated that would know when you are definatly in a random so that there would be no confusion as to being in a random or out of range?

If I understand you correctly then yes, that's possible.. SRL already does this afaik

From: Zyt3x
If I understand you correctly then yes, that's possible.. SRL already does this afaik

Didn't know that. Ive seen the script think its in a random before and it's not.

From: doublex8
http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Random_Events

http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/User:Frede173/1000_Summer_sq%27irk_juices

I have always been under the impression that an event is triggered when a certain amount of xp is earned in a certain amount of time. Since xp/time cannot be accurately calculated expect in a few scenarios (smithing with the exactly equal time between loads, crafting cowhides, high alching, ect), an element of randomness is in fact present in when the random events will occur due to influence from other players.

Now for those exceptions (mostly "use on" actions independent of other players), if you start right after receiving an event and know the proper formulas you can calculate exactly when an event will occur. However, the second element of randomness I mentioned is the nature of the event. Even if you know when it will occur, you can never know which you will get.

Now that I've gone and explained out exactly what I meant: I never said bots weren't able to handle random events; I did say that they were introduced as a deterrent to bots, which is entirely true. I also said that the occurrence of Random Events (outside of very specific exceptions) is random due to randomness in human nature and influence from other players; also true.

From: doublex8
Could something be implicated that would know when you are definatly in a random so that there would be no confusion as to being in a random or out of range?

Now I'm not exactly an expert at this, but I'd think reading what music is currently playing would be an almost 100% accurate way of determining whether or not the player is in a random. AFAIK each random event has its own unique music, and it forces a music change from whatever was playing before when it occurs.

From: dd409
(the skill itself was heavily influenced by a counter-bot mentality, you can tell that through observation)

I agree. Dungeoneering was created as such to make a more fun skill to level and simply give more incentive to level it yourself.

All the other skills simply aren't fun to level, and none of them really pop out as "hey guys let's do *this* together!" in terms of skilling.

I think Jagex is realizing this, and I think they're really going in a better direction.

From: dd409
I guess I don't see why Random Events and new skills shouldn't count. Because of Random Events, bots require more work and maintenance (whereas before randoms were introduced, bots required little post-release work and could run until doomsday). With the addition of Dungeoneering (the skill itself was heavily influenced by a counter-bot mentality, you can tell that through observation) there is now a skill with a max level of 120, which takes approximately 8 times longer to earn than reaching 99 (to be specific it requires 7.999825001950603 time the experience that level 99 does). I'd call that upping the grind for both bots and legit players.

A weak argument, sure, but that's how I see it.

I am saying that bots didn't lead to the game becoming a grind.(random events and skills such as dungeoneering were placed to stop bots, i repeat, to stop bots, and it in no way makes the game more of a grind because the xp nor the max lvl has changed)

From: kongking
I am saying that bots didn't lead to the game becoming a grind.(random events and skills such as dungeoneering were placed to stop bots, i repeat, to stop bots, and it in no way makes the game more of a grind because the xp nor the max lvl has changed)

But the fact remains that Dungeoneering, the product of bots, has increased the grind–by about 8 times. Since it is a completely optional skill, I don't see how it is at all in place to stop bots; the skill itself has just been designed with an anti-bot mentality to keep bots from proliferating further.. We seem to have differing opinions about whether or not Dungeoneering should count as an increase to the grind, so why don't we just agree to disagree and leave it at that?

I am talking about the time before dungeoneering came along(true it can't be botted, but its rewards far outweigh the time it needs and its level doesn't affect the things you can/can't do in rs, even most legit players don't train that skill that much)

From: dd409
Since it is a completely optional skill, I don't see how it is at all in place to stop bots;

You answered that question yourself:

From: dd409
the skill itself has just been designed with an anti-bot mentality to keep bots from proliferating further..

P.S. Aren't all the skills optional anyway?

P.P.S. You say yourself that the grind has increased, which is not exactly for or against my opinion that due to the game being a grind, bots had to be made.

From: dd409
increased the grind–by about 8 times.

Except it's more like a progressing mini-game than a skill.

From: Her0n
Except it's more like a progressing mini-game than a skill.

Exactly! Dungeoneering is more like a mingame than a skill(so obviously it can't count)