SRL Archive - Discussions & Debates

Is it right for them to now censor WikiLeaks? What ever happened to "freedom of speech"? Or is America turning into a dictatorship where freedom of speech is forbidden against the Government?

WikiLeaks is a genius creation; if the governments had nothing to hide then it wouldn't be a problem.

Google the bill to censor the internet.


BUT, WikiLeaks made a lot of information that was classified readily available. And if it's out there, it has the potential to cause a LOT of problems. Other countries could/did get really pissed, terrorists could do stuff with that info, etc. It's probably better that we DON"T know some of that stuff, you know? If enough countries get pissed at us, we're dead. We aren't invinsible, you know.

If everything that the government did was public knowledge, we'd be pretty effed, so don't complain. They're doing what they need to to deal with the situation

The fact is though that some things need to be hidden. It is a threat to national security, and should be taken down, and the rapist bloke who set it up should be treated like a terrorist. My opinion.

From: Rich
The fact is though that some things need to be hidden. It is a threat to national security, and should be taken down, and the rapist bloke who set it up should be treated like a terrorist. My opinion.

You do understand that the rape accusations are pretty much propaganda, the prosecutor dropped the charges as it was felt there was no need for them, usually if someone gets raped there's a need for charges.

Anyway, it's pretty clear, if everyone knew everything that was going on in our government, nothing would function properly.

Yeah, the rape accusations were just to add more wood to the fire

Oh OK. I didn't know that.

From: Rich
Oh OK. I didn't know that.

And, to respond to your statement that he should be treated as a terrorist, disagree. Yeah, he compiled the leaks into one convenient place, but he didn't actually leak them. He didn't break any laws.
Now, if we lived in China, we wouldn't even know what the true meaning of internets was

From: blulightning
Google the bill to censor the internet.


BUT, WikiLeaks made a lot of information that was classified readily available. And if it's out there, it has the potential to cause a LOT of problems. Other countries could/did get really pissed, terrorists could do stuff with that info, etc. It's probably better that we DON"T know some of that stuff, you know? If enough countries get pissed at us, we're dead. We aren't invinsible, you know.

If everything that the government did was public knowledge, we'd be pretty effed, so don't complain. They're doing what they need to to deal with the situation

So, let's say that if I call you a <insert nasty word here> in your absence, I should be mad if you get to hear that eventually? That's what you're saying. Wikileaks is saying the opposite.

From: kingarabian
Is it right for them to now censor WikiLeaks? What ever happened to "freedom of speech"? Or is America turning into a dictatorship where freedom of speech is forbidden against the Government?

Freedom of speech is not respected.

Insult your employer = against the law..

From: Wizzup?
So, let's say that if I call you a <insert nasty word here> in your absence, I should be mad if you get to hear that eventually? That's what you're saying. Wikileaks is saying the opposite.

That's actually not what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is that if every idiot in the world has access to sensitive information, we're screwed.

I'm not so pretentious to say that I could run a country better than the government is, and so I should have access to all of their information.

Sure, I have some ideas about life that would probably work better, but I don't expect to have as high clearance as the Pres or the director of the FBI

From: blulightning
That's actually not what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is that if every idiot in the world has access to sensitive information, we're screwed.

I'm not so pretentious to say that I could run a country better than the government is, and so I should have access to all of their information.

Sure, I have some ideas about life that would probably work better, but I don't expect to have as high clearance as the Pres or the director of the FBI

What information is sensitive? Why does it have to be sensitive? Why is all that data sensitive? What does the government have to hide? This isn't about running a government better, this is about corruption and showing people what is a mistake / a wrong decision. Who was harmed with the information surrounding the two wars, except for the person who leaked them? No one. Then why is it sensitive? Why is all this information sensitive?

To be honest, American diplomats apparently just suck. :)

I really don't understand WHY everything is kept a secret from the American people. Why are things hidden from us? Isn't it "we the people" which includes the government? We Americans have the right to know whats happening.

I can't believe they are calling Assanage a terrorist. I guess in today's world they go beyond the definition of "terrorism" and "terrorist".

There definition of a terrorist: A person who is not following the way the government wants him to.

*doh*
If every american knew everything that is classified in the government, we'd be, excuse my french, completely fucked. Think about it.

But he's DEF not a terrorist.That's the stupidest thing I've heard recently

From: blulightning
*doh*
If every american knew everything that is classified in the government, we'd be, excuse my french, completely fucked. Think about it.

But he's DEF not a terrorist.That's the stupidest thing I've heard recently

No we wouldn't. They shouldn't be keeping so much things secret, much worse telling us there doing something completely opposite then what they are really doing.

if the government told everyone everything, it would also be able for the whole world to access it. That means our enemies would have vital information, and we would be killed and all that bad stuff.

From: traveler
if the government told everyone everything, it would also be able for the whole world to access it. That means our enemies would have vital information, and we would be killed and all that bad stuff.

this.

From: kingarabian
No we wouldn't. They shouldn't be keeping so much things secret, much worse telling us there doing something completely opposite then what they are really doing.

What about that ^.

And wikileaks was focused on America, quite sadly. But a few people from wikileaks have been working on leaking a lot more shit from all around the world.

Then it'd kinda be like Fight Club. Clean slate. See what happens.

From: kingarabian
What about that ^.

i doubt they would make up a story that is much worse than what really happened. They do things for certain reasons. Im sure they would not just come out and say "oh yeah, that plane that crashed yesterday. It really wasnt a training accident, it was a special ops mission that went really bad." that would probably start a war or something even worse.

From: traveler
if the government told everyone everything, it would also be able for the whole world to access it. That means our enemies would have vital information, and we would be killed and all that bad stuff.

Do you have enemies when everyone tells the truth?


Thread: Obviously some secrecy is required. Goverments abuse it to keep a lot of information secret which should be public. We need a proper definition for "classified".

From: Wizzup?
Do you have enemies when everyone tells the truth?


Thread: Obviously some secrecy is required. Goverments abuse it to keep a lot of information secret which should be public. We need a proper definition for "classified".

Fair enough :)

I think a lot of bullshit stuff is classified just because it gets politicians' rocks off.

But the codes for the football should NOT be public info :) :)

From: Wizzup?
Do you have enemies when everyone tells the truth?

you get more enemies when everyone tells the truth. conflicting views on stuff and then telling everyone about it will get you hurt.

As a soldier I'll tell you a secret. If we don't kept operational and strategic information secret "WE DIE". How do we die you might ask. If that data wasn't secret and we put out that we going to check such and such place. Who/What would then be waiting. If we didn't keep how we ran our patrols or how we place our security secret how would that help us stay alive. Note I'm 26 and have 2 hearing aid now do to explosions making me almost completely deaf with mid to high frequencies. Bless my wife for putting up with me asking her to repeat herself so much. Love Her <3

~BraK

If every american knew everything that is classified in the government, we'd be, excuse my french, completely fucked. Think about it.

No, ofcourse there are things like defensive systems etc that the U.S doesn't have to show to the Chinese but all of the classified stuff doesn't belong in that category.

From: traveler
you get more enemies when everyone tells the truth. conflicting views on stuff and then telling everyone about it will get you hurt.

No, you gain enemies when you treat other people like trash. Lots of people, some vocal, have lots of different beliefs and ideas. And guess what, the vast majority of them live together peacefully.

From: traveler
i doubt they would make up a story that is much worse than what really happened. They do things for certain reasons. Im sure they would not just come out and say "oh yeah, that plane that crashed yesterday. It really wasnt a training accident, it was a special ops mission that went really bad." that would probably start a war or something even worse.

And why are they doing a special ops mission, that if failed would start a war? And secondly, you should really question the competence of your country's administration if they are doing something that could lead to an outright war - and failing that.

From: traveler
if the government told everyone everything, it would also be able for the whole world to access it. That means our enemies would have vital information, and we would be killed and all that bad stuff.

No, it would just mean your government would be more trustworthy. If a country hates your guts, them having information or not won't stop them from invading you (or trying to). Maybe if the government wasn't so corrupt people wouldn't be leaking stuff about it. It's not like future secret war plans were leaked. But if they were, I would be largely concerned about that too. Not because it would piss off the other country, but because going to war is not in the best interests of any country.

From: BraK
As a soldier I'll tell you a secret. If we don't kept operational and strategic information secret "WE DIE". How do we die you might ask. If that data wasn't secret and we put out that we going to check such and such place. Who/What would then be waiting. If we didn't keep how we ran our patrols or how we place our security secret how would that help us stay alive. Note I'm 26 and have 2 hearing aid now do to explosions making me almost completely deaf with mid to high frequencies. Bless my wife for putting up with me asking her to repeat herself so much. Love Her <3

~BraK

Yes, if you invade someone it's in your best interest not to tell them where you plan on camping overnight. That is just dumb. The fact that you classify that as a secret just proves that some of the USA's "secrets" do not really need to be confidential.


Seriously, there is a reason why this stuff was leaked. You ARE supposed to question your governments intentions. You ARE supposed to make sure they stay in line. But nah, the government has all the best intentions and the interests of its people I'm sure.

If you can post a link to an example with information which you believe contradicts any of my replies I'd be glad to read it. But from the few headlines I have read it just seemed like the US government got caught slinging shit and are "paying" for it. I can't claim to have read all (or any, for that matter) of the leaks so take what I say with a grain of salt.

From: BraK
As a soldier I'll tell you a secret. If we don't kept operational and strategic information secret "WE DIE". How do we die you might ask. If that data wasn't secret and we put out that we going to check such and such place. Who/What would then be waiting. If we didn't keep how we ran our patrols or how we place our security secret how would that help us stay alive. Note I'm 26 and have 2 hearing aid now do to explosions making me almost completely deaf with mid to high frequencies. Bless my wife for putting up with me asking her to repeat herself so much. Love Her <3

~BraK

Im not saying to expose military tactics… I would just like to know why we still have a U.S army base in Okinawa… Why all of a sudden were interested in the Koreas, when we know that North Korea is just bullshitting the world about its nuclear program. They don't have food to eat. Why we attacked Iraq and wasted 2 billion dollars a month when we knew they had no nukes. Why are we taking so long in Afghanistan… Why were having trouble in Africa. Etc etc

1. Capricorn, if you think that it makes no difference whether the enemy knows all your plans or not, you need to reconsider. That's absolutely not true.

2. In Korea, the common people have no food to eat. The guys who call all the shots there are very very well off.

3. Otherwise, yeah, who knows wtf we're doing in Iraq and Afghanistan at this point. Bring our troops home.

I agree with brak, these are military secretes and it is just like the german code back in wwii. People's lives is at stake here.

That is just my opinion, am not saying if its good or bad.

From: Capricorn
No, you gain enemies when you treat other people like trash. Lots of people, some vocal, have lots of different beliefs and ideas. And guess what, the vast majority of them live together peacefully.

I have made enemies from telling the truth, so i know that telling the truth is not always good.

From: Capricorn
And why are they doing a special ops mission, that if failed would start a war? And secondly, you should really question the competence of your country's administration if they are doing something that could lead to an outright war - and failing that.

It was just an example. If governments told everyone what they were doing, do you thing perl harbor would have happened? Or that D-Day would have been a complete success? Yeah, just tell everyone what is happening in the government, you will see how bad it screws you over.

From: Main_Ftw
I agree with brak, these are military secretes and it is just like the german code back in wwii. People's lives is at stake here.

That is just my opinion, am not saying if its good or bad.

Im sure they did not release anything that refers to military tactics that we did not know already. We know which countries who have drones, bad-ass bomb, planes, jets, ships, subs, nukes and shit like that. So leaking information that we sold or gave arms to certain countries wont do any harm. Its things we Americans are supposed to know. Its our tax money that goes to creating these arms.They did not release how the military trains there troops, how much troops are sent to special operations, and stuff like that.

From: kingarabian
Im sure they did not release anything that refers to military tactics that we did not know already. We know which countries who have drones, bad-ass bomb, planes, jets, ships, subs, nukes and shit like that. So leaking information that we sold or gave arms to certain countries wont do any harm. Its things we Americans are supposed to know. Its our tax money that goes to creating these arms.They did not release how the military trains there troops, how much troops are sent to special operations, and stuff like that.

You'd be surprised, but you actually DON"T know which countries have planes drones jets, etc. You just think you do.

Also,(COMPLETELY hypothetical), say the world finds out through a leak that we sold North Korea weapons. Then we're in a huge doozy.

That's an extremely drastic and unlikely situation, but do you understand my point?

From: blulightning
You'd be surprised, but you actually DON"T know which countries have planes drones jets, etc. You just think you do.

Also,(COMPLETELY hypothetical), say the world finds out through a leak that we sold North Korea weapons. Then we're in a huge doozy.

That's an extremely drastic and unlikely situation, but do you understand my point?

Even if I didnt know, should the American government make a big deal if we know who does or doesn't?

From: kingarabian
Even if I didnt know, should the American government make a big deal if we know who does or doesn't?

I've tried to explain several times to you why stuff like that is sensitive information? YES, IT MATTERS. It is a big deal for a lot of the information that was leaked to be leaked.

Like I said, a lot of it was bs, but a lot was important

so, say you know this hot chick at school (Hillary). You kind of like her, and would like to know her much better. You know she kinda likes you as well, so things are great. But then there is her brother (tom), who is a total douche to one of your friends (bob) and take his lunch money all the time. You decide to tell your other friend (jeff) that you don't think her brother is very nice guy, and that you would appreciate if Jeff watched your back, and you'll watch his back. Well then Jeff writes a secret note to Larry saying that you guy formed this pact against Tom because he is a total douche. Turns out that Larry is one of Hilary's good metro sexual friends. Tom tells Hillary that you're going behind everyone's backs to make secret pacts against her brother Tom (whom she loves dearly).

Moral of the story, politics suck.

You know when you call your dad a jerk behind his back and your little brother tattles on you? sucks huh?

From: traveler
I have made enemies from telling the truth, so i know that telling the truth is not always good.

A good thing that you learn throughout in life is a little bit of judgement. You should be able to tell who you'll offend by saying something. It's kinda like being in prison, nobody wants to hear anything you say so you stick to yourself.

From: traveler
It was just an example. If governments told everyone what they were doing, do you thing perl harbor would have happened? Or that D-Day would have been a complete success? Yeah, just tell everyone what is happening in the government, you will see how bad it screws you over.

I think there is a huge difference between military planning and government secrets, but that's just me. I don't think anything related to WWII applies to this conversation, because at least fighting in WWII was justifiable. Talking crap about other countries though, I think that is just silly. It's a sad day when we elect someone who is immature enough to belittle somebody else to run any country.

I mean sure, we can say North Korea isn't exactly the best place to be but we shouldn't devolve into talking shit about them. I expect more from leaders, and so should you.

it might not be "talking crap" though….

Say we have a diplomat over in….France…
He sends a message saying "Hey, the French leader guy has gone crazy, he's slain sheep on the Eiffel Tower and plans to steal the statue of liberty back."

Do you think he would get killed if he said it openly and not secretly?

Maybe something fishy is going on…. "Hey USA leader guy, this French president is acting suspicious, I think maybe we should keep an eye on him, don't trust him at face value".
I mean, that could just be a gut feeling from out guy over there, he could be right or wrong, but either way it doesn't help us at all if the French know that we think they are crazy….might as well keep it cool on the surface till they really go crazy, then we'll be kinda prepared….

Not to pick on the french, they crazy suns of guns….

From: Brain
it might not be "talking crap" though….

Say we have a diplomat over in….France…
He sends a message saying "Hey, the French leader guy has gone crazy, he's slain sheep on the Eiffel Tower and plans to steal the statue of liberty back."

Do you think he would get killed if he said it openly and not secretly?

Maybe something fishy is going on…. "Hey USA leader guy, this French president is acting suspicious, I think maybe we should keep an eye on him, don't trust him at face value".
I mean, that could just be a gut feeling from out guy over there, he could be right or wrong, but either way it doesn't help us at all if the French know that we think they are crazy….might as well keep it cool on the surface till they really go crazy, then we'll be kinda prepared….

Not to pick on the french, they crazy suns of guns….

I like this one. Holds a certain value to it.

~BraK

From: blulightning
1. Capricorn, if you think that it makes no difference whether the enemy knows all your plans or not, you need to reconsider. That's absolutely not true.

Why exactly do these plans need to be secret for 20 years or more though? Most likely all these war events would never have been released.

From: Wizzup?
Why exactly do these plans need to be secret for 20 years or more though? Most likely all these war events would never have been released.

Come on wizzup, you know that's not what I mean :)
Read my other posts, I said a bunch of times that a lot of it was bull

From: blulightning
Come on wizzup, you know that's not what I mean :)
Read my other posts, I said a bunch of times that a lot of it was bull

I'm not entirely sure what you are actually saying then… :p
Anyway, in my ``open world'' there would be no war, so there wouldn't be a need to hide information about your camp.

Hey guys my camp and Wizzup's camp is going to attack your camp tomorrow. What would you do?

~BraK

From: BraK
Hey guys my camp and Wizzup's camp is going to attack your camp tomorrow. What would you do?

~BraK

uhm, leave my camp :p

I don't know exactly what was released with this but from this thread and what I have heard on the news, there is no point in it. There is probably no good that is going to come out of leaking this type of stuff. As I see it, only bad can come from it, so why do it?


Why not make an "SRL Leak" website? and have everything above the public view exposed? Would it do ANY good?, no it would only make things bad for those that are above the public. We have things in SSRL that I personally wouldn't wanted leaked and I would assume the admins have stuff they don't want people to know about (or why have a secluded section…).

Things are meant to be kept confidential for a reason, if the government REALLY thought we needed to know about it then they would probably tell us. My physics teacher use to work for the U.S. government during WWII and help defend against the possiblities of Russia attacking us from the skies with missles, etc… If the public would have known that type of a threat existed back then and that we didn't have a OFFICIAL defense system against it, shit would have hit the fan. Overall most shit that the government says is "top secret (or w/e)" shouldn't be public.