Cstrike
2010-11-25 14:26:39
Potentially sensitive topic, lots of text… what are we waiting for? :garfield:
For those that don't know…. and I'm probably one of them, reflection for a while seemed to be considered the easy way out. Of course it still is compared to color, you call one line and you have all the NPC's at your grasp to do whatever you please. Some people code color strictly for the challenge, likewise others code entirely reflection because it's easy and you get results. I lean more towards the last one, and throw in some color as well, but I mainly stay reflection almost entirely for:
- Speed
- Accuracy
- Results
Doesn't mean you can't get any of those with color, in some ways OCR is faster than sifting through a crap-load of interfaces (which makes SMART/Simba crap out if done too much). Though you may agree with me or disagree here, it does seem that reflection is rising. I personally think it is, about a month and a bit ago it was in complete disarray… no one really working on it, everyone busy.
Believe it or not back in May when I started getting dead serious about becoming members, I wanted only to do reflection. Actually, I wanted a working Guild Fisher ;), but it was broken and I couldn't learn it on my own. I figured people said that it's being fixed, so I sat back and waited. Months went by and finally I went "screw this" and sat down, printed out pretty much every guide and read through the core to learn all the functions. When the most recent hooks were updated, I tested out everything, and then pumped out a guide after Naike started re-developing. It's hard for Nava2 to do stuff because he's busting his rear end in a difficult dual degree IIRC, so he can't possibly even think about developing.
After the guide, it seemed like people started to code again. Of course I cannot claim this was because of my guide either, that would be way too conceited (I personally think it just happened to come out around the time it started to pick up)… it seemed like when reflection started to come back, people enjoyed the tile walking, accuracy…etc, and thus a new small movement was born. Myself and others wanted to solve randoms, as there are a few theories floating around that Jagex may possibly detect autoers by click issues, and if they log out a lot in randoms. Some may disagree, since I'm sure every color script takes it up the rear-end with Mordaut comes along, or the gravedigger, so thats up for debate. Nonetheless, with reflection the randoms can actually be fully solved, or the tackling of harder things can be done now.
Of course we have color purists who don't want reflection to be developed at all. I don't think this is the right attitude, but I do agree that:
RSBot though has taken it to a new level, they've uploaded their hook grabber online, so now the autoing programs will never go out of date. Very innovative I must say, but where does that leave us? They now possess the means to run almost entirely forever now assuming Jagex doesn't do some massive engine change. All it would take based on my [somewhat limited] knowledge would be to detect when a system update occurs, logout and wait at the login screen until hooks are patched and resume. Theoretically can run forever assuming no severe changes in hook updating or anything.
So where does that leave us?
People nowadays like solid scripts. After all, if our scripts only last 1-2 hours, whats the point of leaving the computer? I personally like to run my scripts all day if possible.
Many people like armies, which SRL is formed around. Huge armies allow scripts that last 1-2 hours to work continuously. That's indeed good, but with killing of RWT, many people seem to auto on their main accounts more. A poll here shows that a major amount of people do auto on their mains, and scripts that are being released tailor to strong character growth. An interesting thing I saw over at the Powerbot.org forums was a tutorial island runner that got small levels attention, much less than I originally thought. I personally want an army that is huge for my nefarious purposes >: - ), but you'd think most people want their mains to be the powerhouse of money and make a bunch of crap accounts to mule cash to the main. Thus far based on the amount of people at RSBot that I've seen, less people may be interested in small armies than I thought.
Therefore, this brings us to the cycle above. If we have low amounts of people interested in armies, will people seek us out? What does our forum offer that others don't?
We offer things like learning color and beating the system through intellectual knowledge, but how many does this attract? Our ban rate swamps everyone else for sure, though to be a cycle we can't have a leak. As we saw in Icefire's thread on our activity, it seems like we're leaking a bit. I do agree that it is finals time, but was it ever this bad? I remember back when there were a crapload of scripts everywhere, but now we have a huge forum with what seems like 99% of outdated scripts and 1% of good scripts still floating on top.
One question I think I proposed was… can we create subforums like we used to? Move all our scripts into the "outdated" section, and pull out the ones into the "dated (skill here) section"? But would we have enough scripts to make it worthwhile, or would that just make us look even more inactive?
We have the Script Manager coming, but I have no idea how this is going to work TBH, can't speculate much here unless the Dev Team says something.
Besides the mini derail, we return to getting community members here, and to keep it short– it seems like reflection is a new way we're going to head. It might stop inactivity, it might breed activity. If all randoms are solved, where do you think people will flock? RSBot has all the randoms solved, but their java wait period seems to fail to catch exceptions with things (this isn't my forte so excuse my incorrect jargon if it is indeed incorrect), which brings people to possibly check out other areas. If we can make amazing scripts with reflection that would be pretty much not feasible with color, why not support it?
Now this brings up the second question, should we judge member applications as harshly if they use reflection? What do we want in the community?
Do we want…
SRL was based around color, I understand that. Though of course times change, and the cycle still applies to us whether we are color, or reflection, or BCEL… or dead. Ideally we don't want to be a shut off community, since it would cause us to become smaller and smaller and diminish into non-existence. There would always be our core who are content at beating the system with color, but it would become discouraging if the scripts were only for us.
Therefore, should we judge members based on reflection? If they can color code something, but rely heavily on reflection to do something… should they be turned away for having near pure reflection? What does the community want?
If we follow the cycle image above, which I feel is logical relative to growth, rewarding people for making a reflection script seems reasonable. Of course, 100 lines of reflection is unacceptable, but innovative ideas should always be welcomed. If they were not going to do color and 'not join us' anyways, is it our loss to have a potential scripter who would benefit the community to leave?
What do you think?
Sorry if some points are a bit haphazard, got to go for now, if my points are messy I apologize. Please, debunk points (in a constructive manner obviously) if you see something wrong. We don't get anywhere by just agreeing with each other unless we fully agree ;)
For those that don't know…. and I'm probably one of them, reflection for a while seemed to be considered the easy way out. Of course it still is compared to color, you call one line and you have all the NPC's at your grasp to do whatever you please. Some people code color strictly for the challenge, likewise others code entirely reflection because it's easy and you get results. I lean more towards the last one, and throw in some color as well, but I mainly stay reflection almost entirely for:
- Speed
- Accuracy
- Results
Doesn't mean you can't get any of those with color, in some ways OCR is faster than sifting through a crap-load of interfaces (which makes SMART/Simba crap out if done too much). Though you may agree with me or disagree here, it does seem that reflection is rising. I personally think it is, about a month and a bit ago it was in complete disarray… no one really working on it, everyone busy.
Believe it or not back in May when I started getting dead serious about becoming members, I wanted only to do reflection. Actually, I wanted a working Guild Fisher ;), but it was broken and I couldn't learn it on my own. I figured people said that it's being fixed, so I sat back and waited. Months went by and finally I went "screw this" and sat down, printed out pretty much every guide and read through the core to learn all the functions. When the most recent hooks were updated, I tested out everything, and then pumped out a guide after Naike started re-developing. It's hard for Nava2 to do stuff because he's busting his rear end in a difficult dual degree IIRC, so he can't possibly even think about developing.
After the guide, it seemed like people started to code again. Of course I cannot claim this was because of my guide either, that would be way too conceited (I personally think it just happened to come out around the time it started to pick up)… it seemed like when reflection started to come back, people enjoyed the tile walking, accuracy…etc, and thus a new small movement was born. Myself and others wanted to solve randoms, as there are a few theories floating around that Jagex may possibly detect autoers by click issues, and if they log out a lot in randoms. Some may disagree, since I'm sure every color script takes it up the rear-end with Mordaut comes along, or the gravedigger, so thats up for debate. Nonetheless, with reflection the randoms can actually be fully solved, or the tackling of harder things can be done now.
Of course we have color purists who don't want reflection to be developed at all. I don't think this is the right attitude, but I do agree that:
- In some ways, color is more stable because hooks going out of date messes everything up
- If anything bad happens, color will always be a fine way to go due to the analog hole (based on what I learned from RM)
RSBot though has taken it to a new level, they've uploaded their hook grabber online, so now the autoing programs will never go out of date. Very innovative I must say, but where does that leave us? They now possess the means to run almost entirely forever now assuming Jagex doesn't do some massive engine change. All it would take based on my [somewhat limited] knowledge would be to detect when a system update occurs, logout and wait at the login screen until hooks are patched and resume. Theoretically can run forever assuming no severe changes in hook updating or anything.
So where does that leave us?
People nowadays like solid scripts. After all, if our scripts only last 1-2 hours, whats the point of leaving the computer? I personally like to run my scripts all day if possible.
Many people like armies, which SRL is formed around. Huge armies allow scripts that last 1-2 hours to work continuously. That's indeed good, but with killing of RWT, many people seem to auto on their main accounts more. A poll here shows that a major amount of people do auto on their mains, and scripts that are being released tailor to strong character growth. An interesting thing I saw over at the Powerbot.org forums was a tutorial island runner that got small levels attention, much less than I originally thought. I personally want an army that is huge for my nefarious purposes >: - ), but you'd think most people want their mains to be the powerhouse of money and make a bunch of crap accounts to mule cash to the main. Thus far based on the amount of people at RSBot that I've seen, less people may be interested in small armies than I thought.
Therefore, this brings us to the cycle above. If we have low amounts of people interested in armies, will people seek us out? What does our forum offer that others don't?
We offer things like learning color and beating the system through intellectual knowledge, but how many does this attract? Our ban rate swamps everyone else for sure, though to be a cycle we can't have a leak. As we saw in Icefire's thread on our activity, it seems like we're leaking a bit. I do agree that it is finals time, but was it ever this bad? I remember back when there were a crapload of scripts everywhere, but now we have a huge forum with what seems like 99% of outdated scripts and 1% of good scripts still floating on top.
One question I think I proposed was… can we create subforums like we used to? Move all our scripts into the "outdated" section, and pull out the ones into the "dated (skill here) section"? But would we have enough scripts to make it worthwhile, or would that just make us look even more inactive?
We have the Script Manager coming, but I have no idea how this is going to work TBH, can't speculate much here unless the Dev Team says something.
Besides the mini derail, we return to getting community members here, and to keep it short– it seems like reflection is a new way we're going to head. It might stop inactivity, it might breed activity. If all randoms are solved, where do you think people will flock? RSBot has all the randoms solved, but their java wait period seems to fail to catch exceptions with things (this isn't my forte so excuse my incorrect jargon if it is indeed incorrect), which brings people to possibly check out other areas. If we can make amazing scripts with reflection that would be pretty much not feasible with color, why not support it?
Now this brings up the second question, should we judge member applications as harshly if they use reflection? What do we want in the community?
Do we want…
- Only color scripters
- Someone who makes working scripts
- Someone who shows knowledge of coding
- Someone who contributes to the atmosphere
SRL was based around color, I understand that. Though of course times change, and the cycle still applies to us whether we are color, or reflection, or BCEL… or dead. Ideally we don't want to be a shut off community, since it would cause us to become smaller and smaller and diminish into non-existence. There would always be our core who are content at beating the system with color, but it would become discouraging if the scripts were only for us.
Therefore, should we judge members based on reflection? If they can color code something, but rely heavily on reflection to do something… should they be turned away for having near pure reflection? What does the community want?
If we follow the cycle image above, which I feel is logical relative to growth, rewarding people for making a reflection script seems reasonable. Of course, 100 lines of reflection is unacceptable, but innovative ideas should always be welcomed. If they were not going to do color and 'not join us' anyways, is it our loss to have a potential scripter who would benefit the community to leave?
What do you think?
Sorry if some points are a bit haphazard, got to go for now, if my points are messy I apologize. Please, debunk points (in a constructive manner obviously) if you see something wrong. We don't get anywhere by just agreeing with each other unless we fully agree ;)
