SRL Archive - Senior News and General

Pros

• More people will actually try to learn!
• We'll get more people here
• Scripts will be made (free and payed versions)
• Will force competition, which always leads to better product(script)

Cons

• Open source scripts might dissapear
• Leaking of scripts
• (not sure if it's allowed or not)

Discuss?

What's the point in ripping young kids off? You'll only drag the wrong persons to the forum.

I do think we could focus our programming skills and produce something for say, companies. Do something constructive. We could easily make websites with other people on SRL. I have one or two servers we could use to test.
If you want to make money, you should do it like that. It'll make you a lot more money than script sales, which are also a huge hassle.

Honestly, we'll first need to fix SRL a bit, get the script manager set up before we starting thinking about selling scripts. (Which I am not in favour of)

Most players in RS are just kids, and I'm afraid most money in their PayPal accounts is from theft and scam. I don't want that to SRL.
If we could be sure that the money really is legal, I'd say go for it.

If scripting were a source of income, i'd be more willing to script.

A small income is better than none. If I managed to sell a script for £2 / month and got 20 sales, that'd be £40. It's not much. I can get more money with 3 hours of work. But at least I'd be getting paid to do something I like :)

Remember that we don't have to do things like everyone else does ;)

If I sold a script for £5, that'd be today's ciggys!

I'm not sure about this. But most likely low priced would generate a small healthy economy.

If you look at this from a psycological / managerial point of view:
When you get a lot of money, you end up doing it just for the money and therefore not enjoying it as much. You are Externally motivated.

If you get a little bit of money, but you put a lot of effort into it, you'll think you're doing it because you love it, cus after all getting £20 for 20h of work is barely anything.
This would make you Internally motivated.

And a little money gives a little incentive.
Money is an incentive.
But if you love it, you are motivated.



———-
And then let's be honest with ourselves. We set the price.

If I sold my Guildminer for £5, cstrike wouldn't be able to sell his for £20.
If a member sold an alcher for £1, a junior wouldn't be able to sell his for £5.

If Wizzup sold his essence miner for £6, POMS wouldn't sell theirs for £15 (well, maybe)


But you see what I mean. Those who have the skills set the price.


~~~~~
Then there'd be a whole lot of trouble as for auth's and shit. But I think there'd be plenty of ways around that.

~RM

Just, no. The main problem is that every script gets cracked anyways, and else I'd just crack it myself as soon as I got my hands on it, just for the challenge.
KYAB flourished as a bot/script-cracking community for some time, they had a cracked iBot Pro and like all SCAR payscripts and the most popular scripts for those other bots cracked. Heck they even had a cracked RID when it was still easy to do.

How exactly would you do this when SRL is GPL?

From: Wizzup?
How exactly would you do this when SRL is GPL?

How does SCAR use SRL? :rolleyes:

From: Nava2
How does SCAR use SRL? :rolleyes:

What does this have to do with SCAR? It's about closed scripts using SRL.

Well only SRL can sue us for using it without complying to GPL so….

but i'll shup up now :)

~RM

The scripts would need to be either incredibly unique in what they do, thus high demand, or they need to be VERY well made, looking like they were made by hired programmers. I can see the benefits, it would bring more of an incentive to learn, far more competition between similar styled scripts.

An idea: SRL takes 20% (or another figure) of all profits (ie all payments go through SRL first, as this would also work as a good middleman). SRL could then use said money to spend on developing Simba/SCAR and the forums.

From: Wizzup?
How exactly would you do this when SRL is GPL?

You could give them the source, however, that would bring us to next dilema - Leaching.

Having some kind of inbuilt thing in the scriptmanager?
Turning the scripts to closed source? (would break GPL I guess, or would it?)
Ideas..?

It might attract kids, but after all, every serious bot user that plays these days are kids? Our community will hardly change as the higher ranks got control, and they'll keep order. Of course SRL needs fixing first, but having this in mind wouldn't hurt.

As RM mentioned a little bit of money is nice for incentive, personally I prefer seeing my script on the top of the stats. :) What I'm mainly waiting for is what Wizzup and others are already working on (Script manager and 'official' srl stats).

Keeping the source closed would be to much work and as mention break the GPL no? In any case it is a big hassle for just some chump change compared to an actually working website or job.

From: Narcle
As RM mentioned a little bit of money is nice for incentive, personally I prefer seeing my script on the top of the stats. :) What I'm mainly waiting for is what Wizzup and others are already working on (Script manager and 'official' srl stats).

Keeping the source closed would be to much work and as mention break the GPL no? In any case it is a big hassle for just some chump change compared to an actually working website or job.

As has been said, these are kids.
Kids always like getting a bit of money ;)

~RM

Nah lol, would make even more people go to RSBot etc if the best scripters here get greedy.
In the sense that if the best scripter's scripts become pay scripts then there would be even less left for leechers.

[wildproposal] Since we assume here to be the best scripters alive, why not develop paid scripts for RSBot and others?, and make money from that?[/wildproposal][beyondsrl]and sell them here?[/beyondsrl]

Wild, I know.

EDIT: we build a small new community, new names, no relation to SRL and develop for all bots paid scripts :)

From: WT-Fakawi
[wildproposal] Since we assume here to be the best scripters alive, why not develop paid scripts for RSBot and others?, and make money from that?[/wildproposal][beyondsrl]and sell them here?[/beyondsrl]

Wild, I know.

EDIT: we build a small new community, new names, no relation to SRL and develop for all bots paid scripts :)

Why not do it all in here? (as in with SRL)
We'll drag people here from all over if we got some solid sales.
Plus we got the BEST community in the whole scene.. Lets use it for some good!

I like this idea… And I definitely wouldn't mind getting into java…

~RM

Added poll, feel free to vote. :)
(I personally like to get a quick overview of people's opinions when I enter threads like this.)

To shorten this post I'll simply say that I'm pro this. A lot of you prove very valid points – I especially liked the logics of Wizzup? and RM. Wizzup?, as for your reasoning, (which I by the way like), I still think this could prove very viable not only as a motivator or something to raise activity, but also attract more people; especially older groups who wish to incorporate at least a small element of profit into thier hobbies. So even though there indeed are better ways, I believe we should go through with this simply because of the fact that it's the correct thing to do in accordance to SRL/Villavu's interests. Ofcourse the potential profit that is to be reaped off this would be minimal, so I hope that you all understand that allowing this will show it's true value as a motivator – and not as an opportunity for people to make money or a scamming haven.

If script sales were to be created, I would only agree to them if we had an automated system for making sure they are distributed. Also, they must be GPL'd.

This could be done through the manager. Having scripters able to authorize who gets to use their scripts (setting groups, people, etc.). Thus, you could say: I want SSRL+, and Camaro' to have access to this script. This could allow for selling of scripts as well as still creating flexibility.

Also, I'm not adverse to having SRL take a server fee from these transactions, it could also be auto-magically done (Sell script, wait for payment, add to access code, notify the user they now have access).

The systems proposed would bring scamming etc. to almost zero. BUT, it would be quite a bit to implement. :(

If you ask people to pay for scripts, odds are, they won't share them with many people.

We've got MSI to provide a free alternative.

We can choose to whom to release the best scripts.

We can alter the market as we want it.

If you create a script a give it to x people, then those people will have it for free.
It's a benefit.

It distorts the market.

And we can distort it however we want ;)

~RM

From: EvilChicken!
Added poll, feel free to vote. :)

I'm not going to vote as the ideas out there are generally too blurry and I don't really know what I am voting for. Will vote where there are some actual ideas.

Voted no. Read above.

Plus, there is a real relation between script selling and scamming / stealing accounts. So if you want to do this, it'll have to go through some general system. Not some half-assed solution that everybody can use.

From: Wizzup?
Plus, there is a real relation between script selling and scamming / stealing accounts. So if you want to do this, it'll have to go through some general system. Not some half-assed solution that everybody can use.

Chosen trusted middlemen that represent SRL as a whole?

I'm talking about the actual selling of it. Just about the program to provide this mechanism, of which I still think evil.

Wizzup, things like fair trade exist in the world ;)

We can draw inspiration from such things!

~RM

Causes more problems than it solves. Always.

And wtf is it even solving any problems? Lack of people isn't really a problem, it's not like more people will actually work on SRL/Simba.

I'm not in love with the idea of script sales.

[admin]
No script sales above £1 / day
No script sales above £3 / week
No script sales above £15 / month

Auths purchased on daily, weekly or monthly basis.
This is to avoid purchasing a script that ends up going outdated
[/admin]

That sets a top selling price. Anything above that, and we just don't allow sales. Simple. :-)

~RM

Limits like that are abitrary though

From: The Claw
Limits like that are abitrary though

Expand…?

~RM

Why those exact numbers? Why those time frames? What happens if someone really wants to use a script, but the sales per month has already been gone over? They would have to wait for another month, or get it for free, or the seller would have to go over their limit. What happens if the seller goes over their limit?

Arbitrary as in it seems like you just came up with those time frames and numbers from nowhere. And they will probably cause more trouble than it's worth really.

Just get a job. :p

Oh I see. Yes, completely arbitrary, but you got the wrong idea :p

it's a maximum you can sell each auth for, there is no maximum amount of sales.

As for the numbers, I just took £15 which is a high maximum to sell an auth for, if this is hobby money,

and then worked backwards, making it more money/value to buy monthly auths :)

~RM

From: Sir R. Magician
Oh I see. Yes, completely arbitrary, but you got the wrong idea :p

it's a maximum you can sell each auth for, there is no maximum amount of sales.

As for the numbers, I just took £15 which is a high maximum to sell an auth for, if this is hobby money,

and then worked backwards, making it more money/value to buy monthly auths :)

~RM

So a scripter can only make a maximum of $1 a day/$3 a week/15 a month per script?

From: ZephyrsFury
So a scripter can only make a maximum of $1 a day/$3 a week/15 a month per script?

RM makes a script and sells it for £1 / £3 / £10
- Zeph buys the script for 1 week (£3)
- The Claw buys it for 1 day (£1)
- Nike buys it for one month (£10)
- cstrike buys it for one month (£10)
- 5 random users buy it for one month (£50)

at the end of the month, RM made:
3 + 1 + 10 + 10 + 50 = £74

Does that make more sense?

edit: This is more like script rental than script selling ;)

~RM

Scripts are usually sold with lifetime auth..

From: marpis
Scripts are usually sold with lifetime auth..

This would still be possible, no?

Selling of anything on the forums, but especially 'digital goods', will only serve to attract scammers. It always happens, regardless. Have a look at sythe.org, and if you want that type of forum here, then start allowing script sales.

Well Sythe is an extreme example. The Black Market over here has practically been scam-free (mainly due to being members-only).

People allowed to sell scripts would be members only?
And that makes a perfect time to open up the black market to jr.members.

I'd say as long as it's done properly and only Members+ can sell then it would be okay. I vote yes. :)

From: Naike
People allowed to sell scripts would be members only?
And that makes a perfect time to open up the black market to jr.members.

Why does it make that a perfect time? And why would members only be allowed to sell scripts? I don't see how they relate, nor do I see why either of these statements are the proper way to go.

From: Markus
Well Sythe is an extreme example. The Black Market over here has practically been scam-free (mainly due to being members-only).

Right, and how many sales have there been?

From: moparisthebest
Selling of anything on the forums, but especially 'digital goods', will only serve to attract scammers. It always happens, regardless. Have a look at sythe.org, and if you want that type of forum here, then start allowing script sales.

I don't think they'll listen. They just want to see some cash. ;)

Things don't always have to work the same ;)

What Naike was suggesting might actually work out -
Only members + can sell scripts.

That'll mean they've been here for a while,
are trustable enough to be members,
and their scripts are up to members' standards.

When you sell a scripts what's the worst that can happen?
1. cracked and distributed
2. you never get your money
3. all you lose/waste is some personal intellect.
4. And then again it's not lost it's just out there.
—> It's as if your script were released without your consent.

Selling scripts doesn't have to be that bad. If we accept the possibility that someone might crack it and distribute it and we deal with it,
then the next worst scam is someone just not paying us (deal with it how u'd usually deal with it)

and if everything goes well, you jsut gave members a very nice benefit.

I'm not saying I am pro, i'm jsut saying it's possible.

~RM

From: Sir R. Magician
Things don't always have to work the same ;)

What Naike was suggesting might actually work out -
Only members + can sell scripts.

That'll mean they've been here for a while,
are trustable enough to be members,
and their scripts are up to members' standards.

When you sell a scripts what's the worst that can happen?
1. cracked and distributed
2. you never get your money
3. all you lose/waste is some personal intellect.
4. And then again it's not lost it's just out there.
—> It's as if your script were released without your consent.

Selling scripts doesn't have to be that bad. If we accept the possibility that someone might crack it and distribute it and we deal with it,
then the next worst scam is someone just not paying us (deal with it how u'd usually deal with it)

and if everything goes well, you jsut gave members a very nice benefit.

I'm not saying I am pro, i'm jsut saying it's possible.

~RM

• Cracked and Distributed - you're essentially stimulating people to perform criminal offences.
• You never get your money - you're enraging the people who sell scripts. They feel privileged and will try to do whatever they can to ``pay back''. Doesn't sound like creating a community, but rather breaking it down. It's not like you're casting out the people who don't pay, you attract new people who don't pay.
• All you lose/waste is personal intellect - which you should have shared with everyone in the first place. SRL is no one's intellectual property.
• Last point doesn't really make a lot of sense when it comes to the actual selling, and lies quite close to point three.

How do we usually deal with issues between two community members? You tell me. Should we just ban Frement, Sandstorm, iluffsyews, etc again? (pretend they stole something) In the end the person who didn't get 5 bucks from them will ``want to keep them banned for ever''. Much like Markus and iluffsyew. Again, nice community building process.

If this is what the management will be like, count me out. ;)

Glad to have you arguing your side ;)

You always have to look at the worst case scenario first. That's where all the big problems will come from, so that's your risk analysis ;)

Due the fact that this will attract scammers, knowing this before hand, we could deal with it.

• SRL Members will only be able to sell
• Showing video of the script working
• Showing a progress report
• Have the code verified by staff
• Buyer always goes first, if there's no middleman

If all the above was checked and dealt with, then there'll be no point in scamming in the first place as you'll lose a lot more than gained.

• Banned on the forums
• Losing the ability to sell your script(s)

[wild idea]
And for the scammed user we could give away one of the developers pay scripts for a month, just to make sure he won't go empty handed.
[/wild idea]

Remember, this would only apply to SRL Members. However the script market should be able to be viewed by the JR.Members.

We could try it , and if it doesn't work well, scrap it?