SRL Archive - Discussions & Debates

Well there was an off-topic semi-discussion relating to the word "nigger," and, while it is a rough subject, it is a very valid discussion topic.

[Disclaimer]

First of all, let this be clear that this is not a thread to bash any sort of person, unless it is valid and without vulgar or unnecessary language. I know that is a stupid thing to ask of on the web today, but really, racism is just ignorant, as race doesn't even exist (quite ironically making racism not really exist, which makes for quite confusing classification of anger and ignorance and what not, but that's a whole big other discussion). So please, I would like this to be a valid discussion and have people bring their ideas to the table for anyone to think about and/or respond to. Thanks.

[/Disclaimer]

To me (I live in the suburbs of Portland, OR, which isn't a very diverse place; there are about five "black" girls/boys in my high school of about 2,000 (I use "black" because they're simply darker skinned, and race doesn't exist so I hesitate to say they are in a certain "race;" they merely have dark skin), the word "nigger" is not offensive in nature, just how, in my opinion, communism by definition isn't bad, but in real-world practice it becomes flawed. In some (if not most) situations, people use the word "nigger" derogatorily, which is not okay to me.

For example, for one person to walk up to another person (assume they're both friends), and one says "Nigger, what are you up to?" (I'm not going to type something like that as "nigga," although I would assume it would be pronounced as such, simply because "nigga" isn't a word, while "nigger" is, as well as it not being a valid argument towards anything, it's simply a colloquial or accented way of saying it (how I say "dunno" instead of "don't know" in spoken words)) is not a "racist" remark. It's just one person asking another person what they're doing, using "nigger" to replace "man," "woman," "bro," "dude," etc. I see no problem with this whatsoever.

However, for one person to yell to another person something along the lines of "Go hang from a tree, nigger" is quite offensive.

Another example is the term "faggot." It is different in a way, but it is another word relating to politically correct terms. Homosexuals aren't faggots unless they're faggots. Louis CK pretty much sums this one up for me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-otAJrtY-w. I think he's spot on; if you're saying shit like "People from Phoenix are Phoenicians," you're a faggot. But if you're just doing your own thing, performing homosexual fellatio, you're a homosexual.

To summarize, "nigger" is fine by me as long as it's not derogatory, "faggots" are faggots who do stupid/annoying shit, not homosexuals.

Any other "politically correct" words/whatever that anyone would like to discuss?

Um.


yea well, ive heard in some parts of California is you say "ya'll" they think your from a certain part of L.A. and every gangster will think your from a certain gang, and ask you were you from.

I simply answered, Texas.

I didn't know at the time that saying "ya'll" was a gang word over there for a certain gang till 4 months ago, when i ran into a Marine, that was a O.G. from his days. And explained to me about that term. since he was from Cali.

Squancy's post made me think about the word "Emo", or "Emotional". People automatically think "Self-harming"

Neither of those posts have anything to do with the thread, but oh well.

Neither does 'Faggot'?

I'd say it does. "Faggot" generally isn't a politically correct term.

[OFFTOPIC]
I do not like racists.
I also do not like uneducated people with tendencies to crime to move to our country.
Still, I am not racist.

Althought most of those uneducated people who cause harm to our society are dark skinned, I don't see the color. I see the ignorance of our rules, culture and expectations.
If someone asked me if I want a 15-year-old Somalian to move to Finland, I would say no. I do not want a 15-year-old Somalian here. But a 15-year-old Somalian who's been raised in a peaceful, intelligent and studying-encouraging family and who wants to study nursery in Finland, then welcome! I'm glad to buy your flight tickets and offer you a free apartment from our tax moneys, while you're studying!

It's statistic that makes people judge individuals, what in some cases is acceptable, and in others isnt.
[/OFFTOPIC]


[TL;DR] Start here!
I think the word nigger is just a word. "Fuck you" can mean "I hate you and I want you dead" or "Haha, dude, cmon!" etc.
It's always the context that the speaker uses the word in that matters.
I don't think an old lady who's used to saying "nigger" does anything etichally wrong if she drops the n-bomb in the presence of black people. It's not polite, but we can't blame the old lady because she didn't mean any harm.

From: i luffs yeww

To me (I live in the suburbs of Portland, OR, which isn't a very diverse place; there are about five "black" girls/boys in my high school of about 2,000

Not to flame you, but

Try going to the school where more than 60% of the people at your school are black, and then making this post about it. seriously.

if i went to a school like yours with only 5 black people out of 2,000, trust me, i would probably think the same thing. the majority of the people in my family are not racist whatsoever. but i cant see why not.

Fag
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fag may refer to:

• Fag, a colloquialism for cigarette
• Fag, a junior boy who acts or acted as servant ("fagging") to a senior boy at a British independent school
• Fag, or Faggot (slang), an American English slur for a homosexual or effeminate man.
• A short form used among stock exchange traders for the stock of Antofagasta.

FAG may refer to:

• Fuerza Aérea Guatemalteca, the Guatemalan Air Force
• FAG Kugelfischer, a German manufacturer of ball bearings
• Fluorescein angiography, a medical procedure
• Find A Grave, a web listing of gravesites
• Film Actors' Guild, a fictional evil organization of liberal actors led by Alec Baldwin in the movie Team America: World Police; a parody of the Screen Actors Guild, the abbreviation FAG is part of the joke.
• Fuerzas Armadas Guanches, a terrorist group in the Canary Islands
• Fundamental algebraic geometry by Grothendieck

Meaning is in the ear of the listener?

Personally, the word "nigger" is used as a reference to ignorant people, usually pretending to be something they're not whether to disguise their actual intelligence, act tough around their "boyz" (as a mob mentality), etc, REGARDLESS of their skin pigmentation.

Racism is not only pointless, but also proven incorrect. The Genome Project (through the use of DNA) has traced every single homosapien back to common roots. Common African roots.

As to the English language, just say what you mean. If out of 30,000+ words "fuck you, nigger" is the phrase that most aptly fits, use it. Usually other words would convey your message with better clarity however. I would like to say that "fuck you, nigger" does not cause me to shudder like the words "politically correct" do. Wish I could remember where I read the definition –

"Political Correctness: The belief that it is possible to pick up a turd from the clean end."

people who try and act politically correct constantly and let it rule over what they say and how they act really bug me. I can understand not trying to be offensive, but when you get mad at someone for calling a good friend their nigger, that's just unreasonable. It's the exact same thing as saying "bro", "dude", "man", "homie", etc. etc.

Another thing that I see happen a lot is that people who are black or hispanic (because in the area of california I live in, they are the minority while whites and asians are the majority) will use it as a tool to get what they want. For example, when I did water polo last year for my high school team, there was only black kid. The rest of us were mostly white with a few asians. Whenever the coach would choose who had to take out or put in the goals, if they chose the one black kid, he would always say "It's because I'm black, isn't it?" and the coach would say "No, I'm not trying to be racist" and he would get out of it. Now you know it's obvious that the kid didn't really think that, he was just saying it because our coach was a pushover. I see other examples of things like this happening all the time, and it just really annoys me.
/vent

The whole thing about black people calling each other "nigger" is just a double-standard. To me, they can have that double standard, but to be honest, I am not going to respect a black person who says that, as its original meaning was one of hate.

The most major issue in my eyes at the moment about political correctness is the airport security. The full-body scanners and more aggressive pat-downs. While I am not sure about my opinion on the full-body scanners or pat-downs yet as it is kinda a tricky subject, there has been talk by some to let Muslim women opt out of both of them. Now, statistics don't lie, while the women may not be the ones who are terrorists (and just to clarify I do not believe that all Muslims are terrorists, but I typically try to be aware of anyone who may be a threat and what they are doing, this includes random people on the street when they walk by me), the terrorists will just use that as an opportunity to get whatever they want, onto the plane, and in my opinion defeats the purpose. I see absolutely no problem with profiling, it does not force you to prove innocence, nor does it promote "racism", if 6'5" white guys were blowing up themselves on a daily basis, I would be okay with doing additional screening, it may be a bit of a pain, but I have nothing to hide.
/end rant-ish-thing

I do not believe that all Muslims are terrorists

True that! I would also like to add not all Middle Easterners are Muslims and not all terrorists are Muslims OR Middle Easterners.

I know I'm getting away from the point of the thread regarding politically correct terms, but had to get that out. Now back to the fun!

Given the choice of A or B, would you prefer your airport security, government, schools, coaches, avon ladies, etc etc:

A. Politically Correct

B. Plain 'ol fashioned Correct

I will get back to this thread at the end of next semester.

As i will be taking Pol. Science 2314.

These conversations sounds like the people from FOX.

Nothing but BIAS opinions.

From: TomTuff
Whenever the coach would choose who had to take out or put in the goals, if they chose the one black kid, he would always say "It's because I'm black, isn't it?" and the coach would say "No, I'm not trying to be racist" and he would get out of it.

Same BS happens up here as well. One guy disturbed the entire class because he got a low mark on his test, when he clearly was wrong– but instead of owning up to it he stood up and stared the teacher down until she did something. She asked him "do you have a problem" and he said "yeah, you're f***ing racist", which we all facepalmed at because there was another white kid who got even worse than he did.
For the rest of the period he disturbed the class until the VP came down, and even then he still tried to milk every last second with the race card.

My summary: Pulling the 'race' card pisses off everyone if it's a clearly false claim.

From: sirlaughsalot
The whole thing about black people calling each other "nigger" is just a double-standard. To me, they can have that double standard, but to be honest, I am not going to respect a black person who says that, as its original meaning was one of hate.

The most major issue in my eyes at the moment about political correctness is the airport security. The full-body scanners and more aggressive pat-downs. While I am not sure about my opinion on the full-body scanners or pat-downs yet as it is kinda a tricky subject, there has been talk by some to let Muslim women opt out of both of them. Now, statistics don't lie, while the women may not be the ones who are terrorists (and just to clarify I do not believe that all Muslims are terrorists, but I typically try to be aware of anyone who may be a threat and what they are doing, this includes random people on the street when they walk by me), the terrorists will just use that as an opportunity to get whatever they want, onto the plane, and in my opinion defeats the purpose. I see absolutely no problem with profiling, it does not force you to prove innocence, nor does it promote "racism", if 6'5" white guys were blowing up themselves on a daily basis, I would be okay with doing additional screening, it may be a bit of a pain, but I have nothing to hide.
/end rant-ish-thing

[off topic] Great, I hope you like to see your wife and kids get touched in their genitals…I heard that they not only touch but squeeze as well. Its great that you like to give up your rights for extra protection. I wonder what's next…

From: gamer716
[off topic] Great, I hope you like to see your wife and kids get touched in their genitals…I heard that they not only touch but squeeze as well. Its great that you like to give up your rights for extra protection. I wonder what's next…

You must be stupid or something. I hope you like to have the greater chance of airport security failing and hundreds/thousands people of dying in a hijacking/bombing.

Please stop with targeting specific people here, everyone.

Anyway, I'm glad there were some valid points brought up at least. :) Good to see that some people actually seem like they want to discuss this.

Real quick I'd just like to say a little about myself. I'm not very smart at all. I know virtually nothing that there is to know. That's why I bring up questions like these; I'd like to know better. I've read a few sociology, social anthropology, and psychology textbooks and I've talked to people with masters in each subject and I've read many philosophical writers such as Karl Marx, Friedrich Nietzsche, Bertrand Russel, etc. etc. (one may say I am quite bias toward a certain type of philosopher, but I read snippets of others, it's just that I've read full books and extensive writings by all of those stated above), and I constantly think about things like this and life and happiness and everything.

I'm just saying that because I don't want to seem like I think I'm a genius or anything. I'm just a kid.

Anyway, failpailirl, I stated the above mostly for you. While it's true that I don't know much about living in a different culture at all (never been out of the northwest besides Hawaii when I took my first steps), I have read quite a bit about it. I'm positive I know more than you about some things where you live, but I have no experience there so I can't say much. That's how I feel about drugs, too; I wouldn't want to always be on drugs, but I do them to understand what they do and what it's like.

I would love to stay wherever you live for a few months or a year or something to at least start to understand some of it, but I most likely won't. Do note, however, that I grew up homeless (but not "houseless"; my mom and I would go to random peoples' houses and convince them that we somehow knew them and then stay there for awhile, and randomly leave, taking as much as we could), so I do understand some things besides living in the suburbs.

From: TomTuff
You must be stupid or something. I hope you like to have the greater chance of airport security failing and hundreds/thousands people of dying in a hijacking/bombing.

Just picturing all the layers of security failing – from the CIA, FBI, state and local law enforcement, the watch lists, all the way down to the nosy old lady down the street – and it all comes down to Barney Fife, TSA Screener, finding a grenade down a terrorist's pants while he was grabbing a different pineapple… I'm amused. Granted it doesn't take a whole lot to make me amused. :)

Terrorists are trying to frighten you out of your freedoms, how is that different from your federal government?
Terrorists don't collect taxes.

At what point to we realize we're safe because we've given up everything that anybody would want to take away?

From: Squancy
These conversations sounds like the people from FOX.

Nothing but BIAS opinions.

"Biased opinion" sounds redundant. I just call 'em opinions. If they weren't opinions they would be proven/provable facts, then it wouldn't be fun to discuss 'em because we could just point and say "see" while everybody else nodded.

Not trying to piss anyone off, and I freely admit I'm not the sharpest crayon in the box when it comes to politics, society, and how people should treat each other…
…And I segue back to the topic of political correctness…

Can anyone explain how we end racism by referring to people in America by their "*-American" label?

~EGM (the Politically-Correct-Terminology-Challenged-American)

black people calling eachother nigger pisses me off. If the word is taboo for white people, then it ought to be for black people and for everyone. The reasoning, to my knowledge, of most people for such a thing is that black people were enslaved and now feel like white people shouldn't be able to say nigger anymore. Okay, i guess. I personally don't think that really is applicable nowadays because there aren't any black people that were actually slaves nowadays. But if you really dislike it, then whatever. But then, if the word is actually hurtful, then it makes zero sense for black people to use it for eachother to mean "friend" or "homie".

Also, faggot being used to call someone annoying and such, really is not politically correct either. Getting overly concerned about PC is silly because in just about every conversation, something will be said that is technically not PC, but really, its so ingrained into the lingo that the meaning implied is changed, so it doesnt really matter if it's PC.

the term "nigga" is like the term "dude"…

so it's okay, but sometimes the elders may trip.

on the other hand the term "negro" is racist but i still say it for the hell of it and no one gave me any problems lols <3

negro seems less racist to me. Negro actually means something past being used to call someone black. Im not sure that Nigger does.

I have a black friend who hates the word nigger, but doesn't mind negro…

I've always heard "negro" was better than "nigger."

Pretty silly to me though that "nigger," "nigga," and "nigguh" all have different connotations. But whatever. :p

I'm stuck how you deny that different races exist. (since most this thread is off topic anyway).
We have defined race, therefore it exists. It's like saying you don't believe in wind, it's just moving air, when wind is defined as moving air.
Although race is strictly defined as solely skin color…I could be racists against people that all have brown hair.
Since one of the definitions of race is:

From: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/race?show=2&t=1290299472
c : a category of humankind that shares certain distinctive physical traits

And I would consider brown hair as distinctive trait.

And don't even get started on double standards…those are rampant everywhere.

Just another one to bring up, is "retarded"

Now, I know a lot of you are going to say you use it. ANd occasionally I let it slip too. But my cousin is special needs and I always feel terrible after saying it. I think that it's similar to saying "nigger." You don't mean to use it to offend, but it will definitely offend some groups of people.

so something happened thursday that i just thought of as relevant to this thread. In my 4th period english class, there's this self-identified lesbian Annastasia. After a new seating chart, Anastasia sat in front of me and Tyler to the right of her, and Shane behind Tyler. Tyler called Shane gay while they were talking, and Anastasia broke in and told them that it offended her. So Tyler started making fun of her, saying things like "So you're a lesbian?", "What a dike!", and "So you like pussy!?". Upon hearing that last one (He said it very loud and the entire class stopped talking and looked at him), she got up and left the class against the teachers will.

That entire situation is like the word "retarded", as blulightning came up with.

"Gay," and "retarded" are different in my opinion.

But Brain, race is just an idea, so it doesn't actually exist. Being racist only exists if race exists, thus racism doesn't really exist; it's just anger towards a certain trait. Similar to if sex didn't exist, sexism wouldn't exist.

in the context of the first post(as im to lazy to read the thread), and in the words of my freshman english teacher, "the word nigger is just a word. nigger nigger nigger"

From: Awkwardsaw
in the context of the first post(as im to lazy to read the thread), and in the words of my freshman english teacher, "the word nigger is just a word. nigger nigger nigger"

Right, it's all about what intentions you have when using a word

From: Brain
I'm stuck how you deny that different races exist. (since most this thread is off topic anyway).
We have defined race, therefore it exists. It's like saying you don't believe in wind, it's just moving air, when wind is defined as moving air.
Although race is strictly defined as solely skin color…I could be racists against people that all have brown hair.
Since one of the definitions of race is:

And I would consider brown hair as distinctive trait.

And don't even get started on double standards…those are rampant everywhere.

So… perhaps we're talking "species" vs "race"? If it all boils down to simply color being the primary discrimination filter then I for one would like to place the blame where it belongs: John Logie Baird, inventor of color television, without which we wouldn't know who to scoff at while channel surfing. :D

From: EGM
So… perhaps we're talking "species" vs "race"? If it all boils down to simply color being the primary discrimination filter then I for one would like to place the blame where it belongs: John Logie Baird, inventor of color television, without which we wouldn't know who to scoff at while channel surfing. :D

colour is not the reason for racsim, but the way with which the typical or stereotypical person of the colour behaves.
Also, you know black and white TVs can produce different shades of black, right?

From: noidea
colour is not the reason for racsim, but the way with which the typical or stereotypical person of the colour behaves.
Also, you know black and white TVs can produce different shades of black, right?

No, I think if you hate someone for the color of their skin then you are racist. If you hate someone because they behave like an a-hole, then you are normal. :)

Never mind the TV reference, it was B.C. (before coffee) Also, you know black and white TVs can produce black and white? People, being people, wouldn't even need different shades.

Skin, hair and eye color (among other methods) are just the means to select someone other than ourselves to blame for our problems. i.e. Perhaps you didn't get the job due to a minority applying for it at the same time, or perhaps you just weren't qualified.

~EGM

I think the word "faggo"t is blown out of proportion along with the word "nigger". I mean just because I call my friend a faggot sometimes when we arejoking around, does not mean im calling out homosexuals or trying to offend them. I think the word faggot has many urban/slang definitions… As for the word nigger, here in Hawaii we use it jokingly with black people and people with all types of races… The people in the mainland USA pretty much make it a big deal.

Like Chris Rock once said. "There is a civil war going on with the niggas and the black people". The black people are normal human beings just like me and you. The niggas keep thinking its the 1790's and that they are still slaves, so anything we say is offensive to them.