SRL Archive - General

Quality vs Development


Sir R. M8gic1an

2010-10-05 15:46:12

Hey guys. I finally have some time to put into SRL :) Moving back to London has been good and fun and busy. Still not completely done, but done enough for now. I'm well positioned in the political games of uni life, if you know what I mean.

Today I got to think around SRL & MSI.
First of all, the obstacle handling will be done with pretty soon, as I've already figured out how to do it.


//obstacles.scar

const
OBS_STAIRS_LOW = 0;
OBS_STAIRS_VEB = 0;
OBS_STAIRS_LB = 1;
OBS_STAIRS_HIGH = 1;

function SolveObstacle(which: TObstacle): boolean;
begin

case which.ID of
OBS_STAIRS_LOW .. OBS_STAIRS_HIGH: SolveStairs(which)
end;
end;

Furthermore, I'll implement cstrike's world walker soon. I'll do it in a way that it doesn't affect any of the other modules, and that you can choose whether to use it or not. This can start paving the way for SRL Members contributed features.

And now to finally address the title of this thread:
Today I was in a system engineering class, and it probably woke up some deep part of my brain. If we allow into MSI modules that aren't 'perfect' but that do work, people will have more feedback and more incentives to develop. And MSI was first created to be a development ground.

I had this idea in my mind that there really wasn't any place to make any scripters shine. I personally had started loosing track of who were and weren't good scripters and second guessed I wouldn't be the only one. So I wanted to create a place where I'd easily keep track of who's a good scripter, how they've improved and what what they are like. And that was the idea from which MSI grew.

I might as well take the chance to say that I've seen you all improve and shine. Which is what makes me so proud; My ideas actually had an effect on the world. And as life is nothing but a vicious cycle, this one is coming to it's end.

You've all improved since you got here, and you've all improved because you were scripting more often and in contact with other good or better scripters. But there are people out there who are at the level you were when you began. And it's time to open the doors for them.

When MSI first started, it was not as great as it is today. As time went on it got better and better, as you guys got better and better. And what am I trying to say with all this?

I'm going to plug cstrike's world walker into MSI. For that I'll create a system where other modules can be plugged in with a few simple defines. A person can choose whether to use the feature or not.

And the main point is these features don't have to be perfect. They'll get better with time.

Popping off the top of my head, magic.scar could also follow this path. Release the magic scripts as Betas. Release any not 100% functioning but somewhat functioning as beta.

Oh, so the cooker only supports ranges, not fires? Who cares, all I want is to cook! :)

What do you guys think? Should we open the doors? (Or is this a pandora's box we're letting loose? :p)


e:

function MSI_Walk(): boolean;
//...
begin
if RefOK then
{$IFDEF Ref_WorldWalker} if not WalkTo(TP) then {$ENDIF}
MSI_Ref_Walk(TP)

//...
end;

//can't remember the propper function names atm.

~RM

NCDS

2010-10-05 16:31:14

The main thing that comes to my mind is that we're going to get all the complaints and be asked to fix the things that don't work properly.

I know I have quite a bit of pride in MSI, and I know Coh3n does, and I'm sure you do as well. Perhaps for a different reason though. My pride (and I'm quite sure Coh3n's too (not trying to speak for anyone , although it kind of sounds like it)) comes from the fact of knowing that I helped construct one of, if not the most powerful, and reliable scripts to ever be here.

As long as thing's are still made to meet requirements then I don't see much of a problem I guess. Not many/any of us have the time to be fixing up even more people's work because they decide to go inactive though.

I'm quite curious to see other people's reply's to this honestly.

Also, glad you'll be more active again :)

Sir R. M8gic1an

2010-10-05 16:35:48

No time? Just let it be. Mark it as outdated. People don't have to use it. But the development will still have happened.

Not good enough? Add it in. The person and the feedback might make it better. Someone else might get excited with the project.

You guys don't have to fix other people's extras. They're extras. ;) And as a development ground, it's normal to see some features that just simply went out of use or weren't as good. But hey, it's features. Not essential, just cool. ;)

Beta, Alpha, Release!

~RM

NCDS

2010-10-05 16:43:51

From: Sir R. Magician
No time? Just let it be. Mark it as outdated. People don't have to use it. But the development will still have happened.

Not good enough? Add it in. The person and the feedback might make it better. Someone else might get excited with the project.

You guys don't have to fix other people's extras. They're extras. ;) And as a development ground, it's normal to see some features that just simply went out of use or weren't as good. But hey, it's features. Not essential, just cool. ;)

Beta, Alpha, Release!

~RM


Good points. I really don't look forward to the "MSI sucks because only half of it works" kids though.

Also, I can easily deal with cooking only using Ranges at first, but I don't know about adding an unstable skill into MSI.

That kind of brings me back to the "strong and reliable" point. That's the reputation I believe MSI has earned, that I personally don't want to tarnish by committing a half way done skill that only works sometimes.

I'm not sure if that's where you were going with the Magic.Simba thing in the first post, but that's what it made me think.

Sir R. M8gic1an

2010-10-05 16:55:04

Break that reputation down :) The high quality it is atm is 'Release'. Each new module would be beta. Then Alpha. Then Release.

The kids complain? Invite them to fix it / replace it. It's a community project after all.
Want to use it? Fine.
Want to provide feedback? Nice!
Want to fix? Great!
Want to create? Even better!
Want to bitch? BitchSlap!

~RM

Coh3n

2010-10-05 16:59:44

I agree with both of you.

We should have a new folder, MSI/Extras, which holds all the extras projects such as cstrike's world walker, but we have to make it very clear that we are not responsible for whether or not these extras work. We maintain the core of MSI, not all the extras that are included.

As for the skills, I've said from the beginning to make it work and worry about expanding on them later. IMHO, Magic.simba should have started with one or two spells (alcher, maybe?), then expanded later. I'm happy with committing any skill that works, even if it includes only one script. Once the base of the skill is done, expanding is very easy.

From: Sir R. Magician

What do you guys think? Should we open the doors? (Or is this a pandora's box we're letting loose? :p)

~RM

Could go both ways. We have to be careful of what we commit. I don't want every project added so people can say they have an extra in MSI. I think that as long as it works, it's reliable and useful, it has potential to be added.

NCDS

2010-10-05 17:02:23

From: Sir R. Magician
Break that reputation down :) The high quality it is atm is 'Release'. Each new module would be beta. Then Alpha. Then Release.

The kids complain? Invite them to fix it / replace it. It's a community project after all.
Want to use it? Fine.
Want to provide feedback? Great!
Want to fix? Nice!
Want to create? Even better!
Want to bitch? BitchSlap!

~RM

Lol, I guess I really can't argue any of that. As long as this doesn't end up making more work for us than it's worth, I have no objections. :)

Gu3st...

2010-10-05 17:25:05

Great!
I'd love to do it this way, and I'm sure more people will get more interested in testing and making utilities (or Extras) for MSI :)

Naum

2010-10-05 17:53:04

I agree with all of you, let's do it

Coh3n

2010-10-05 18:12:15

http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?p=741403#post741403

What do you guys think about an Extras subform (like Fishing, Woodcutting, etc.).

NCDS

2010-10-05 18:15:46

From: Coh3n
http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?p=741403#post741403

What do you guys think about an Extras subform (like Fishing, Woodcutting, etc.).


Seems fitting as it's a separate part of MSI.

Sir R. M8gic1an

2010-10-06 00:02:25

What about the 'Something Else' section in Phoenix SVN? That's what it was created for. Just make a fresh sticky there announcing that's the place people should put their new developments. ;)

~RM

Coh3n

2010-10-06 00:52:28

From: Sir R. Magician
What about the 'Something Else' section in Phoenix SVN? That's what it was created for. Just make a fresh sticky there announcing that's the place people should put their new developments. ;)

~RM

Yeah but I was thinking if there was a subforum there could be a thread for each extra that's been committed. So initially, it would go in the Something Else forum, but once officially added, it could be moved. This would also allow for UPDATED, OUTDATED tags if we wanted.

Also I'm sure you can make it so only SL's can make threads there, just to be sure the new projects are posted in the right place.

Sir R. M8gic1an

2010-10-06 07:35:41

kk, I'll get it done. Just have everyone posting in 'something else' right now.

~RM