SRL Archive - Discussions and Debates

Quick thread;

I've been thinking a lot about how a person can climb the ranks, how it can be made more effective, why sometimes it is so hard to go up, why haven't there been many promotions lately and so on.

The answer is simple. Someone has to set the standard. And where is the obvious 'in your face standard' ? Juniors -> Members.

The harder it is to get into members, the harder it is to get a scripting cup.
The harder it is to get a scripting cup, the harder it is to get a masters cup.
The harder it is to get a masters cup, the harder it is to become a dev.

And as these forums' main focus is scripting, the higher the scripting standards, the harder it is to climb any rank.


There have been many threads in the past over SRL Member standards being too high. This thread might be the answer as to why they are too high.


We've been trying to find so many ways to reward people. But it all boils down to this. Today I was going to grant a scripter's cup - but I wasn't sure if it was up to standard anymore.

From: RM

@EC:

Indeed, I just simply posted my view of it. That's because I don't really know what question to ask.

My original question was:
- How to make SRL more active ?
- How to make climbing the ranks easier ?
- - This boiled down to SRL Member apps.
- Where to set the bar? How? Why? When?

Or my question is… Am I wrong? Are these assumptions / conclusions reasonable?

~RM

~RM

I agree. If everyone's scripts were of very high standard, you couldn't give them all the Cup, and you couldn't make them all Devs, but only the few (or one) who was above everyone else.

Can we get some sort of question here that we're supposed to answer?
Sorry to say, but you're not really querying any opinions, and barely stating any of your own.

(That sounded really harsh in my head, please don't interpret it as anything offensive! It's merely a question..)

Yes, it is true that standards are changing. Just look at the developments that have gone on over the past few years (months even!!). As such, does this mean that it will continually get harder and harder to achieve status? Are you talking about setting a standard and then updating it when it needs to be and making it the solid to the line judge? Are you wanting a list of what people think are standards to be accepted? That is hard. Many people here have a different opinion. Some are strict to the code while some believe the status depends some on the persons' attitude. How do you judge that?

Maybe creating a discussion or thread that has altered permissions (so the person in question cannot see) and just asking/voting on an individual's stats.

@EC:

Indeed, I just simply posted my view of it. That's because I don't really know what question to ask.

My original question was:
- How to make SRL more active ?
- How to make climbing the ranks easier ?
- - This boiled down to SRL Member apps.
- Where to set the bar? How? Why? When?

Or my question is… Am I wrong? Are these assumptions / conclusions reasonable?

@anonymity
It has indeed been getting harder and harder. But if we come to the point where no one becomes a developer, the system has failed. And lately I have seen more developments from SRL Members > Devs. (Perhaps ranks should be more linked to activity, and a lower amount of 'skill')

Setting a bar and updating it sounds… good. But hard. (How, why, when, where)

and also, RM's view on voting
I've tried to address the bar problem before. But it would have to be widespread further, and as it didn't get too much feedback…

~RM

IMO the bar for getting member status is a bit low. But few of the latest that have gotten member status has had pretty good script and standards quality.

From: Frement
IMO the bar for getting member status is a bit low. But few of the latest that have gotten member status has had pretty good script and standards quality.

And what do you view as the current standard?

Also, I'll take the time to point out: you just got into members;
For everyone who has kept an eye open over time, the ones who just got in always find the standards fair.

(Why? Perhaps they had to work this hard and succeeded therefore think the others should / could do it as well, because they want to protect their rank, etc etc)

[yes, I am aware this is not your first time in members]

~RM

From: Rasta Magician
And what do you view as the current standard?

Also, I'll take the time to point out: you just got into members;
For everyone who has kept an eye open over time, the ones who just got in always find the standards fair.

(Why? Perhaps they had to work this hard and succeeded therefore think the others should / could do it as well, because they want to protect their rank, etc etc)

[yes, I am aware this is not your first time in members]

~RM

Personally I think that the standards of Members application has risen. We aren't getting as many scripts which show little or no skill, and we aren't getting as many people applying who don't even have a script to show. This, however, may be because of the period in which we closed registration, but of course it also may not be.

Well, I mostly got to members because I already have been member, so I did not count my application as part of the standards, but I have viewed some of the application that have been made recently.

And from what I remember from 3 years ago, it was harder. But that can be the result that I wasn't that good scripter back then.

IMO, Members is very easily granted. Scripting cups have increasingly been handed out easier over time too the way I see it. More as a 'your doing a good job learning to code' cup. Opposed to the 'You have proven your self to be an efficient SRL scripter' cup.

How many people have gotten a Master cup, or Dev status lately? Slim to none, which, to me is how it should be honestly. Masters/Dev's should be a chosen few.

However, I think that particular standard should be used throughout the SRL ranks. Members and Scripting cup carry little to no 'value' anymore among the SRL ranks because they are acquired rather easily and often. Masters/Dev seems to be the exact opposite, though.

Perhaps I just rambled pointlessly there, but those are my current thoughts on it I guess.

From: NCDS
However, I think that particular standard should be used throughout the SRL ranks. Members and Scripting cup carry little to no 'value' anymore among the SRL ranks because they are acquired rather easily and often. Masters/Dev seems to be the exact opposite, though.

I think that the cups have garnered a little less value to them lately. I remember being so intrigued about the members section before I was. How happy I was to see the content that was there; many great scripts were members only - now there are 0(?) working members only scripts. The members seemed to have some say with what happened, they were extremely respected, trusted, and deserved it (from my point of view as a community member).

I remember applying with a terrible script that would get laughed at today. I don't know how I got accepted, it wasn't even a close poll either. The standards are wayyy higher now compared to before. But should they be? They should be higher than what let me in, there are many more advanced methods that weren't regularly used before, people should understand the basics of everything around them before they can get in. Although, I think that the standards should be lowered. There is little to no activity recently in the rank department. If there has been, I haven't noticed.

I honestly think there is a problem with the master cup.

Devs should be masters.

The master cup right now makes little sense. Just to give you some info on it..

There are currently 28 masters, plus whatever admins might have had it and removed it from their profiles (nielsie, boreas, wizzup, fawky, me, someone else?)

I was the last one to get it, just before I got admin. This was a long-ass time ago.
Not all devs have master cups. However, many devs from before SRL 4 do have it.

Most masters are now inactive.

So the cup is pointless(ish) atm. Because Dev serves the same purpose, and neither have been awarded lately.

I would think they need a new purpose.

Devs - Very active people with enough skill to maintain the include
Masters - People who really take it to a new level

what do you guys think?

~RM

From: Rasta Magician
I honestly think there is a problem with the master cup.

Devs should be masters.

The master cup right now makes little sense. Just to give you some info on it..

There are currently 28 masters, plus whatever admins might have had it and removed it from their profiles (nielsie, boreas, wizzup, fawky, me, someone else?)

I was the last one to get it, just before I got admin. This was a long-ass time ago.
Not all devs have master cups. However, many devs from before SRL 4 do have it.

Most masters are now inactive.

So the cup is pointless(ish) atm. Because Dev serves the same purpose, and neither have been awarded lately.

I would think they need a new purpose.

Devs - Very active people with enough skill to maintain the include
Masters - People who really take it to a new level

what do you guys think?

~RM

I think i agree with this, :)

so, with this, devs are pretty much people who know how to script(SRL member/ scripter cup status), and yet is really active in SRL?

and master cup is reserved for the elite few who are totally epic at scripting?

just wondering :)

Radical idea: how about we simple remove the difference between SSRL, SRL and jr. members? So rather than striving to achieve new ranks, people will strive to achieve a greater reputation to be more equal to the respected members.

This is probably a really idiotic idea, but I just want to hear your opinions about this.

From: EvilChicken!
Radical idea: how about we simple remove the difference between SSRL, SRL and jr. members? So rather than striving to achieve new ranks, people will strive to achieve a greater reputation to be more equal to the respected members.

This is probably a really idiotic idea, but I just want to hear your opinions about this.

Rep parades, repping circles, I'm your friend cus I talk to you on MSN and so on.

Here the ranks allow you to 'gain reputation' due to scripting skill. (those are my first thoughts at least)

~RM

From: Rasta Magician
Rep parades, repping circles, I'm your friend cus I talk to you on MSN and so on.

Here the ranks allow you to 'gain reputation' due to scripting skill. (those are my first thoughts at least)

~RM

I beg to differ. I do not think that scripting skill alone gains you reputation, a perfect example is Brain. I think scripting skill is a small part of the reputation here at SRL. I would say reputation is simply based on intellect. Most of the time the intellect leads you to scripting ability, but it doesn't necessarily do so.

From: Rasta Magician
I honestly think there is a problem with the master cup.

Devs should be masters.

The master cup right now makes little sense. Just to give you some info on it..

There are currently 28 masters, plus whatever admins might have had it and removed it from their profiles (nielsie, boreas, wizzup, fawky, me, someone else?)

I was the last one to get it, just before I got admin. This was a long-ass time ago.
Not all devs have master cups. However, many devs from before SRL 4 do have it.

Most masters are now inactive.

So the cup is pointless(ish) atm. Because Dev serves the same purpose, and neither have been awarded lately.

I would think they need a new purpose.

Devs - Very active people with enough skill to maintain the include
Masters - People who really take it to a new level

what do you guys think?

~RM

I like the idea, you would just have to be careful still knowing that Devs obviously have commit privileges.

From: Awkwardsaw
I think i agree with this, :)

so, with this, devs are pretty much people who know how to script(SRL member/ scripter cup status), and yet is really active in SRL?

and master cup is reserved for the elite few who are totally epic at scripting?

just wondering :)

I would imagine that at least a scripting cup would be necessary.

From: NCDS
I like the idea, you would just have to be careful still knowing that Devs obviously have commit privileges.


I would imagine that at least a scripting cup would be necessary.

Agreed, agreed. I think the switch to git is more necessary every day. Unfortunately me and Wizzup don't get to talk much now-a-days as we're both on holidays. I'll put a notice to this thread up in devs, as we obviously need their input on this.

~RM

From: Rasta Magician
Agreed, agreed. I think the switch to git is more necessary every day. Unfortunately me and Wizzup don't get to talk much now-a-days as we're both on holidays. I'll put a notice to this thread up in devs, as we obviously need their input on this.

~RM

I'm not sure how it's currently done, but I would imagine the best way to select new Dev's would be to create polls like SSRL does for cups.

I think we all need to agree on what we want the Member's title to mean before trying to set specific guidelines to achieve it?

From: Ogre
I think we all need to agree on what we want the Member's title to mean before trying to set specific guidelines to achieve it?

Gotta start on something… if we currently don't have a marked standard on the status of Membership then i believe that should be the first thing fixed before anything else. Developer is - to me - the high class scripters who are recognized for there ability to code, but first a standard on what to it takes to be an SRL Member would look good right now.

My personal opinion on what an SRL Member should be:
- Shows Interest / Able to script for SCAR / SIMBA
- Shows a great attitude to the community.
- Brings great things to the table.
- Any little tidbits here

Theres a lot more that can go into it Morally, but overall if the person has a huge interest in scripting, has invested many hours into learning / practicing this code, then that it self should be a huge plus sign on what it takes to be a member.

Also good to note that if we do set the Standard at this point, were all going to need to follow it as well ^^ just reminding.

Ranks aren't made for people to climb, they're made to seperate levels of skill and trustworthiness…the people who will climb the ranks naturally will. The ranks themselves are abitrary, so if you make every rank easier to climb, the upper ranks get an influx, meaning another rank or two has to be made to seperate the demographic again.

From: NCDS
I'm not sure how it's currently done, but I would imagine the best way to select new Dev's would be to create polls like SSRL does for cups.

I agree. But perhaps place the polls in the Members section, because if we posted it in a public section, you would probably have people who had only just joined SRL voting on who should be a Dev.

Also, I disagree with the way the people who have only just joined get access to all of the scripts. I liked it when they had to earn them scripts by becoming a Junior Member.

From: R1ch
Also, I disagree with the way the people who have only just joined get access to all of the scripts. I liked it when they had to earn them scripts by becoming a Junior Member.

Members won't stick around at first if they can't get access to good scripts. We all started off as leechers who wanted free scripts to play Runescape for us. I personally would never have started scripting if PowerSkills by SB100 wasn't public.

The scripts which were in the FFA section before the rearrange were all perfectly good scripts. The only difference was that there was less choice compared to the JM section, and that banking wasn't allowed.

From: R1ch
The scripts which were in the FFA section before the rearrange were all perfectly good scripts. The only difference was that there was less choice compared to the JM section, and that banking wasn't allowed.

Less choice means people are less likely to stick around. Imagine the thousands of people that were turned off by the 10 post/7 day thing. Many of them could have become SRL members or devs or mods. For me personally, if I'm looking for something, come to a site and see its hard to get it I'll definately go somewhere else. ie. RSBot or whatever.

Post it in Members if you don't want it leeched ;)

~RM

From: Heavenguard
Gotta start on something… if we currently don't have a marked standard on the status of Membership then i believe that should be the first thing fixed before anything else. Developer is - to me - the high class scripters who are recognized for there ability to code, but first a standard on what to it takes to be an SRL Member would look good right now.

My personal opinion on what an SRL Member should be:
- Shows Interest / Able to script for SCAR / SIMBA
- Shows a great attitude to the community.
- Brings great things to the table.
- Any little tidbits here

Theres a lot more that can go into it Morally, but overall if the person has a huge interest in scripting, has invested many hours into learning / practicing this code, then that it self should be a huge plus sign on what it takes to be a member.

Also good to note that if we do set the Standard at this point, were all going to need to follow it as well ^^ just reminding.

Maybe I'm being a bit harsh, but tbh, you're a perfect example of what this thread is targetting. IMO, you don't deserve the scripter's cup. You did rightfully get members, so I'm happy there, but I (personally) haven't seen much input to the community from you to warrant it (You've only been here a few months!). To be fair, maybe I didn't deserve mine either; I haven't released many scripts, I don't post on threads much, etc.

Overall, I think something should change. A new rank perhaps? I dunno.

@ ZephyrsFury ~ I dunno, when I first came here I was intrigued by the idea of writing scripts and sharing. I looked forward to staying longer to get access to more elite scripts. In my mind (waay back then) I was thinking, "whoa, if you have to be a member, make scripts, be accepted, and all this other stuff I can't even imaging how mind blowingly awesome the scripts will be if this is what is available on free." Kindof a taste, where later you get something for giving something. Scripts that cannot be bought, but by skill, attitude, community sharing, and time, they can be earned. I think the levels are important. I think that those thousands of people that may have been discouraged away by needing to do something to get access to scripts probably didn't have the attention span, time, or will to become a dev and contribute as you say.

From: Quickmarch
Maybe I'm being a bit harsh, but tbh, you're a perfect example of what this thread is targetting. IMO, you don't deserve the scripter's cup. You did rightfully get members, so I'm happy there, but I (personally) haven't seen much input to the community from you to warrant it (You've only been here a few months!). To be fair, maybe I didn't deserve mine either; I haven't released many scripts, I don't post on threads much, etc.

Overall, I think something should change. A new rank perhaps? I dunno.

On heavenguard's cup, there was a poll, in which people deemed him worthy. Based on his script (check it out, if you haven't already).
Quickmarch, I've seen your code, trust me, you deserve that cup!

I always though the scripting cup was if you had a(or a few, I don't know) good scripts, and not really if you contributed in threads.

From: Quickmarch
Maybe I'm being a bit harsh, but tbh, you're a perfect example of what this thread is targetting. IMO, you don't deserve the scripter's cup. You did rightfully get members, so I'm happy there, but I (personally) haven't seen much input to the community from you to warrant it (You've only been here a few months!). To be fair, maybe I didn't deserve mine either; I haven't released many scripts, I don't post on threads much, etc.

Overall, I think something should change. A new rank perhaps? I dunno.

I completely understand / respect what your saying. Thats why I did not want to post on this thread on the first place, because I felt I was not here long enough to have an opinion, but to me where all kinda like a family, so everyone opinions matters.

I actually didn't expect this cup… for all the months iv been here iv invested so much of my time, my life, into learning this code [yup, i had a notebook in school that i just practiced basic things in - almost all of my classes]. I spent so much time just getting things to sink into my brain, trying to help others who go through the same hardships as me. I even made a notes thread for when I was learning, which was a way of talking to my self to comprehend information. I participate as much as I can each day at the forums, and i try to bring a healthy attitude to almost everyone of my posts. I constantly script not to auto for runescape {I never ever play it seriously at all :P} but to practice and strengthen what I learn from others. This scripting cup was a huge honor for me to get, it showed that at least some things that I have done have finally come to realize that I have potential in others eyes.

Not trying to hi-jack this thread, sorry that I had to make a post about it, I just wanted just get my side into that =]. That was just opinion on it =] and I completely appreciate / respect what others have to say about it.

What is a "standard"?

Like any unwritten standard, such as SRL rankings, it is individually interpreted by the viewer who holds the opinion based off of that individual's encounterments with the other individuals who hold that standard that define what it truly is. This makes me wonder whether or not we should convert to a written standard, such as national government systems or rankings, such as the navy/military ect., though it may be complicated in nature, it would make life simpler in the long run. By that I mean, true requirements have never truly been set, the closest of which that resembled them was SRL membership applications.

"How to make SRL more active ?"

I have said this before, in order to attract new people aswell as people from other communities we will need

• The SRL stats system working.
• Lots of useful, good working, competitive with rsbot/ibot scripts.
• Easy to follow guides for using them ^
• More new scripting tutorials that have the 'modern' edge to them.
• Newer guides to the SRL forums, on how to be promoted and such and what it means 'benefits'
• Focus away from simba and on the SRL include.

This last one is the most important. Lately simba has been the star of the show, which is great and all. But we really need to remember what built this community and that its not about simba. From day 1 the two reasons active resourceful minds filled this community is because

1. Antirandoms were working and abundant.
2. SRL was the new standard of scripting and the include was the shit.

I'm sure those who have been around long enough, have same the exact same views. SRL aims to high with SRL 5 and sets an unrealistic goal to be made in an unrealistic amount of time, that and the repository is confusing to many so it is neglected and ignored under simba development, community drama, and laziness. SRL 4 is neglected because many are waiting for the coming messiah that they believe is SRL 5, so it too is neglected in that sense. If SRL 4 was cleaned out and the solvers were fixed, then scripts utilized it properly then we would have something again. Bottom line is SRL is just not what it used to be. I am but one person, you can not expect one or two or even three people to carry SRL's include, it will require the full dedication of the active developers if it stands a chance of survival. Sure, if you're not a developer or even a scripter at all you can help out. If you are a good scripter then try looking through the include's tougher files where problems arise such as in the antirandoms folder and files then spend a lot of time studying how the work ect. and hone your skills, posting about small speed modifications elsewhere in the include all day isn't going to help us that much. If you can't script at all, get your scripts set up and be a tester, save all your failed random accounts and find out who needs them to be fixed. There's plenty of ways for everyone to contribute.

"How to make climbing the ranks easier ?"

Do we really want the rands to be easier to climb? If anything we want the ranks harder to climb, that is, as long as more people climb them. Lowering the threshold to do it though is rarely a good idea. We want more people to climb the ladder, because we want more people to deserve it. Indirectly, with the introduction of more easier to understand guides in the intermediate and advanced section we can accomplish this goal by educating the communities current mid range scripters. Remember a tutorial doesn't have to be a full out tutorial on everything from the beginning to the advanced (although it can be) it could be something simple just like, how to make a bitmap, or how to make a dtm. Or how to use TPA's the find objects. As long as they are high quality tutorials, then they will still be useful to someone. Maybe teach personal techniques ect.. the point is we need newer guides.

"This boiled down to SRL Member apps.
- Where to set the bar? How? Why? When?"

I don't think there is anything at all in the slightest sense wrong with SRL membership, it is one of the few things that is close to perfect with the ranking system. The bar is set where it is, in the right place, Because it was set as a non biased system to motivate leechers. A long ass time ago, and it's worked ever since. But this ties into activity, as long as we keep it constant there is no problem.

This brings me to my final point, and that is respect in this community should be like a two sided coin. On one side you have Accomplishments (knowledge/experience), these are things that you have done, things you are known for. Random solvers, programs (SCAR/simba), extensions, 5 star script,s ect. ect. you get the point… these are always a good thing to have (as long as you aren't too cooky about them ;) ) On flip side of this coin you have Ability (intelligence/potential). Take silentwolf for example, he single handedly did OpenGL, yet he no more highly ranked than an inactive scripter from 2006. A lot of people, if they wanted to, could become developers in a relatively short amount of time (from now) if they wanted to. I know a few SRL members who knowledge surpasses 90% of the SSRL/Dev++ group, yet they never accomplished much towards the community, usually out of lack of interest, and they are probably very inactive today. Let there be no mistakes, I firmly believe the skill based ranking portion of SRL is without flaws.

However, what I do believe to be flawed, is the non-skill based ranking portion of SRL. In the past, and probably will happen again in the future. People who were well recognized as developer quality had a hard time becoming one because mainly of Senior SRL. A good portion of it consists of people that only have potential, another portion consists only of people that have accomplishments, heck, some of it consists of people that have neither. But the problems lies within that barrier it creates for those not seeking power, but status. Status and power are two different things. Status gives you the ability to do what you need to do to contribute on the next level. Power is what gives you authority. Many people do not seek power in this community, but people very commonly seek status. SSRL has been serving the wrong purpose. It started as a rank between "Dev" and "Member" but it was later thought to be "Staff" and "Member" because members were rarely selected by their accomplishments, instead by their ability to 'lead' the social group. So if we say SSRL serves as a rank between "staff" and "member" then it should not in any way influence members attempting to become developers, though it continues to. Why? I'm not sure I have the answer for this as of yet.

"Or my question is… Am I wrong? Are these assumptions / conclusions reasonable?

~RM"

No the only thing you were wrong about is

"The harder it is to get a masters cup, the harder it is to become a dev."

I think there are plenty of people who have done much more to earn a masters cup then some of the people who have one. So I think it's lost a lot of it's value in the past year or so. Not that many people who can actually get a masters cup actually care anymore about cups that much though I could be wrong. I used to want one, then I forgot about it after I got the box, it didn't really matter to me anymore because it's really unclear to everyone what you have to do to earn one.

When I saw this thread and the other two threads (Changes to devs/ making the ladder easier ect..) It scared me into thinking tradition would be broken… Anyways, the important thing is that you are questioning due process, but the real important thing is that no drastic changes will be made anytime soon unless agreed upon widely, which is why we have these discussions. Improvements can always be made, but so can mistakes. So I think I speak for everyone when I say caution is the best guide.

From: anonymity
@ ZephyrsFury ~ I dunno, when I first came here I was intrigued by the idea of writing scripts and sharing. I looked forward to staying longer to get access to more elite scripts. In my mind (waay back then) I was thinking, "whoa, if you have to be a member, make scripts, be accepted, and all this other stuff I can't even imaging how mind blowingly awesome the scripts will be if this is what is available on free." Kindof a taste, where later you get something for giving something. Scripts that cannot be bought, but by skill, attitude, community sharing, and time, they can be earned. I think the levels are important. I think that those thousands of people that may have been discouraged away by needing to do something to get access to scripts probably didn't have the attention span, time, or will to become a dev and contribute as you say.

In anom's response lies the key. He describes exactly the psychological sentiments that make our system work; thats why I invented it in the first place. Lets keep it. Now this was all a long time ago, but as Ice rightfully puts it; it is what makes SRL so epic. Ask around on all of our friendly neighbours…. SRL's epic! Our highly sophisticated community separates the consumers from the creators. Though we have seen a massive decline in activity and influx, it doesn't necessarily mean we cannot survive. But the market is repleted, runescape has become more SRL unfriendly, and the general attitude towards cheating has radicalized. We need to face we are no longer a mayor player, but marginal sidekick for those that seek a higher level of creativity. Those that are not intellectually challenged by our competition's communities, find their way up here. We are -and this may sound a little absolute- the natural leaders because our communication standards are high, our technology is more advanced and we are thus by nature more creative. To this day you guys keep amazing me with all your input, wisdom and realism. SRL's a wonderful spot of intellect.

This said: Ice is right. Forums are still muddy. SRL randoms are still under development. Scripts are still not properly evaluated, Simba naturally and with good reason draws a lot of attention. The SRL Core development has come to a natural halt. Many, many thing need to be done. (randoms?) Thats why I tossed The SRL Guild (ow noes, not yet another user group). But in effect this could be the breakthrough we are all waiting for. I remember back @ kaitnieks a similar idea was tossed with members validating paid scripts. A script manager, with Guilders (devs obligation?) maintaining one script, would keep them actively involved and SRL healthy.

So here is my view in headlines: Oldest rs Cheating OS around. 100% free. 100% Open Source. Works. Intelligent community. Proven to have positive effect on young minds. Creative. Stable.

It is not as bad as it seems chaps. Still have my 100% SRL cheated skillcapes :)

My mastercup, it is exactly like you said in your first post. I started off with nothing > scripters cup > masters cup. I dunno if your planning to removing it, don't.

And what the fawk and ice said, is more then true.

I'm not planning on removing anything ;) Ice, beautiful post.

I'll have to properly think before posting anything else.

~RM

How about… another rank ? Above members, obtainable through applying and awards a cup ? :)

I would like to re-apply to be honest.

From: Dr D. Dervish
How about… another rank ? Above members, obtainable through applying and awards a cup ? :)

I would like to re-apply to be honest.

We have Devs, which fit exactly into your description..
I don't see why you'd want a rank above Memebers, it's already prestigious enough as it is.

A rank revolving around scripting and which grants a cup, but not exactly Developer?

Ever considered contributing to MSI? Seems to be fitting.

~RM

From: EvilChicken!
We have Devs, which fit exactly into your description..
I don't see why you'd want a rank above Memebers, it's already prestigious enough as it is.

I lolled at your typo.
__________________

You don't apply to become a developer, and its in general, really hard to become since you must get attention and stuff, show an ability at scripting and developping without the precise aim to become a developer.

When you apply to become a member you get a group of people who vote on your application, you don't have to get attention.

From: Rasta Magician
A rank revolving around scripting and which grants a cup, but not exactly Developer?

Ever considered contributing to MSI? Seems to be fitting.

~RM

You got it, a rank you must apply to get, which shows scripting excellence and mastery, the "next goal" after Members rank, above Members, under Developers.

To be honest, it was more fun being Junior member because there was a goal, and a path to it.

The goal : Member rank

The path : applying.

We members can't apply to anything to get higher rank and such, thus we mostly lurk around, sometimes script, we don't have a specific goal.

I hope you understood what I wrote.


I'll look for some info around MSI.

Oh yeah, would encourage people to make unbelievable scripts to apply to the second member rank.

From: Frement
Oh yeah, would encourage people to make unbelievable scripts to apply to the second member rank.

Second member rank… Made me think of the name.

"First SRL Member", A ranking above all others, as in importance or quality; foremost: "was first in the class.".

That would encourage SRL Members who've stopped scripting, to script again ? :)

I like this idea ^^ .

Something like, Elder SRL Member.

EDIT: Wait no, sounds like Fakawi :D

From: Dr D. Dervish
You don't apply to become a developer, and its in general, really hard to become since you must get attention and stuff, show an ability at scripting and developping without the precise aim to become a developer.

Well actually the last 4 or so developers applied. If you're serious enough about applying and believe you're deserving you can PM an application to an active developer.

From: ZephyrsFury
Well actually the last 4 or so developers applied. If you're serious enough about applying and believe you're deserving you can PM an application to an active developer.

Well unfortunately, afaik there are no instructions on applying for Developer rank as there is on applying for Members rank :/.

From: Dr D. Dervish
I lolled at your typo.

I must be blind, but .. what typo are you talking about?

From: Dr D. Dervish

You don't apply to become a developer, ..

I can't be bothered to go and search for links, but weren't the SRL staff just recently encouraging people to apply for Dev?

But all-in-all, I think I understand you, and I doubt you're alone; people want clear guidelines for what is required to achieve the next rank. Like IceFire said in his long-ass post somewhere; should we just set specific requirements?
It seems logical in my head.. That is, after all, why laws are written and cases not judged by taking too much individuality into consideration.

From: EvilChicken!
I can't be bothered to go and search for links, but weren't the SRL staff just recently encouraging people to apply for Dev?

I don't think that was posted in public yet. RM must have forgotten.

Yeah there was a post…. in Devs, as apparently I forgot to copy it here >.>

edit: ninja'ed. Thread is up.

~RM

From: Dr D. Dervish

To be honest, it was more fun being Junior member because there was a goal, and a path to it.

The goal : Member rank

The path : applying.

We members can't apply to anything to get higher rank and such, thus we mostly lurk around, sometimes script, we don't have a specific goal.

To me, that's what distinguishes "Dev material" from the average SRL member.

You should create your own goal's to achieve. Otherwise, what happens when you get dev? You would become inactive because you wouldn't have another goal planned out and handed to you to try and achieve.


In my personal opinion, the drop in activity at SRL has severely taken a toll on a few thing's. Obviously there are less script etc. but that's not what I'm referring to.

I'm talking about the ranking system recently. It really seems to me like ranks/cups are being awarded far too easily at this time. By handing out awards to people for doing little to nothing to deserve them, your not bettering the situation at all. I'm all for rewarding hard work, but when you reward hard working, deserving people with the same thing you reward lazy, non-contributing people those rewards (Ranks/Cups) lose their value to the people who actually have worked hard for them.

So now the people who work hard lose interest because they are grouped together with people who do as little as possible, and are still presented with the same award. Now, you lose all your talent, and continue to gain "under-achievers".

I've already spoke to a few people about this, but wanted to just see if anyone else was seeing the same thing.

Also, I apologize for drifting etc. I'm trying to feed my son and type this at the same time.

I would look at the situation not one by one, but as a group of achievements.

eg: You've obviously contributed more to MSI than some other people who hold the cup. However, you not only have the cup, you also have the rank.

And remember, all things are relative:
You have a scripters cup earned through the sweat of many scripters. Others have a scripters cup earned from on massive well written script above the level they would be expected to perform.

eg: You have both an Aristocrat AND a Scripters cup, which goes to show you not only contributed small things to the include, you have the capacity to contribute more complex things.

Also notice the SSRL rank. All things are relative.

sidenote: Bon Appetit

~RM

From: EvilChicken!
I must be blind, but .. what typo are you talking about?



I can't be bothered to go and search for links, but weren't the SRL staff just recently encouraging people to apply for Dev?

But all-in-all, I think I understand you, and I doubt you're alone; people want clear guidelines for what is required to achieve the next rank. Like IceFire said in his long-ass post somewhere; should we just set specific requirements?
It seems logical in my head.. That is, after all, why laws are written and cases not judged by taking too much individuality into consideration.

Typo : Memebers.

Exactly, clear guidelines to achieve the next rank.

Specific requirements … sounds great, without anything to aim for, anything you know you can try to reach (thinking of the clear guidelines you mentioned, which exist for SRL Members rank but not for the higher ones), in general, you don't do anything because you don't have the feeling you have a chance to reach it.

Basically, I'm in favor for the Appliance system, and would like it to be used in more situations.

________________________________

NCDS : you complain about the ease at which ranks and cups are being given out, yet you do not want the creation of a new rank, harder to reach than most other ranks, which would also award a cup, illogical if you ask me.
________________________________

RM : SSRL was hidden until recently, and people didn't know you could achieve it (I still don't know how :p) so you cannot really refer to it as a valid higher rank to SRL Member rank, also I don't know if it is based on scripting knowledge..
________________________________

Also, Leaders of SRL :

I think.. a reason to script other than contributing to the community is what needed to revive the fire of SRL.

People are selfish and want that which they do not have, thus they work to obtain it (in most cases).

A reason can be :

"To run a script X you must have the rank Y."

If there is a badass script you want to use, but you cannot since you are too low in rank, you will work in order to obtain the rank.

In other words, tease users, I'm thinking of the South Park episode : Cartman land where Cartman starts a way of getting customers by saying :

"You can't get into my amusement parc !"

Its about the same thing, teasing people to learn, and not accepting OK appliances but only "WOW!" appliances, they will work harder, learn more, to reach what they want, and then you end up with advanced scripters, who have experience and got help of alot of good scripters.

@RM: Thanks for going through that. I didn't really look at it how you do I guess, but I wasn't talking about myself as much as I was other people that I just don't want to go inactive because they feel the same way.


@Dr.D: I just think that you should have to work hard for your reward. Opposed to creating more rewards so we can make sure everyone get's one, even if it's not deserved.

From: NCDS
@RM: Thanks for going through that. I didn't really look at it how you do I guess, but I wasn't talking about myself as much as I was other people that I just don't want to go inactive because they feel the same way.


@Dr.D: I just think that you should have to work hard for your reward. Opposed to creating more rewards so we can make sure everyone get's one, even if it's not deserved.

If this rank might be created, it wouldn't be to make sure everyone get's one, far from ! It would be to make scripters who are way past the SRL Members Application level to get a higher rank.

In other words, a rank which would be difficult to reach, nothing easy like SRL Aristocrat or such, but a rank for which you must work hard, and really desire to achieve.

From: Dr D. Dervish
If this rank might be created, it wouldn't be to make sure everyone get's one, far from ! It would be to make scripters who are way past the SRL Members Application level to get a higher rank.

In other words, a rank which would be difficult to reach, nothing easy like SRL Aristocrat or such, but a rank for which you must work hard, and really desire to achieve.

Well, Aristocrat isn't rewarded based on Scripting skill. What you described sounds a lot like what the scripting cup is supposed to be.

Even if you didn't want to base it off scripting skill, that's what we have SSRL for.

From: NCDS
Well, Aristocrat isn't rewarded based on Scripting skill. What you described sounds a lot like what the scripting cup is supposed to be.

Even if you didn't want to base it off scripting skill, that's what we have SSRL for.

So you're saying Scripting Cup is easy to obtain ? Then tell me what's wrong with a new rank, harder to obtain, based off scripting skill ?

I do want it to be based off scripting skill >.>.

From: Dr D. Dervish
So you're saying Scripting Cup is easy to obtain ? Then tell me what's wrong with a new rank, harder to obtain, based off scripting skill ?

I do want it to be based off scripting skill >.>.

Well here's the thing.

The good/great scripters can apply to become SRL Members.
Then based on community sexyness (not necessarily scripting prowess is what I mean, @anyoneinssrlwhogetstooupsetallthetime) you can obtain SSRL.
Then, iirc, there is an application process to become a Dev, which means you are both sexy and l33t at scripting.

This new rank you're asking for seems like Dev without being sexy. But then it just brings a new rank for people to become, then be idle again because they are un-sexy (not good enough for SSRL in some way) and don't have the intense skill to become straight up SRL Dev. It's just going to make a bump in activity a bit for some SRL Members, but that's it, it will die out then.

Just a little input…
I don't think Standards should be marked in applications.
Standardizers can easily be downloaded and so standards show no extra skill.

From: The Man
Just a little input…
I don't think Standards should be marked in applications.
Standardizers can easily be downloaded and so standards show no extra skill.

+ people developping their own standards shouldn't be marked down.

My one thing to say about this is. More people are moving their scripts from Members+ down to Public Areas. I don't know their reason's for this is. Mine was do to the fact that there is little to no tester's in the SRL Member's section at all. What was Public Scripts originally. Somewhere on this site someone wrote "That no banking scripts would/should be put in to the public area." I believe this was to keep true leechers at bay and to also give up and coming JM's a reason to strive to go farther. You want to make SRL members mean something again start testing for people that post in the member's only section. Super banking get rich and get high skills scripts are posted in public because the tester's in member's is almost non existent. I can't even remember how I got SRL Member in the first place. I certainly never applied for it. I am trying to learn more and contribute more to prove that I do deserve the rank that was never voted on. The community has become more hostile to newer members where in most place people say go look for it. I learn almost all my basics from one Tutorial way back in the day. The thing that help most was the hours of his time and the patience of WT-Fakawi Walking me through things. He also was there for me to bounce my ideas off of no matter how stupid or basic they were. Just so most of you know I learned my basic scripting on satellite internet while be shot at in Iraq in the middle of the night. He never chided me on how I was doing it wrong and how messed up my scripting was. It's the people that will do things like that more that members has been having fewer of lately. Or it could be that I'm just old fashioned. We didn't used to have a hundred or so tutorials. That we could throw around. There was more one on one and one teaching a group. Even if some people won't admit it there is almost always one person or a group that has helped you more than others. Hands on knowledge be passed on is always better. By constantly pointing people your telling them this is the way we do it. None of the why's, why not's or the other questions that come up get answered. The inactivity in the members section is to blame for the decline IMO. I'm Done Ranting. My post wasn't supposed to be this long. But take it as you will.

~BraK

One on one is great and dandy when there's enough people and time. And the sort of hands-on knowledge that can be passed down can still be. People used to look through other people's scripts. Learn from them. Copy parts of them. I barely see this happening anymore.

And say if you're going to ask a person for basic hands-on knowledge, then the person won't have the time for advanced hands-on knowledge. And this is where it truely is important. I couldn't care less how Wizzup does his bitmaps, but I do care to know how he solved molly the first time around.

~RM

I just had 4 paragraphs, and thought no this is crap, and started for the 6th time…

Where do all the ranks stand is a more important question, mainly the junior rank. I have honestly no idea where it stands, as it clearly has changed from when I went throught that rank a year or so ago, and it changed when I wasn't scripting anymore. with the junior rank now actually standing as a rank, I think the current standard most of us expect, is good, and we should keep it where it is…