SRL Archive - General

Well, this is not a PM, but as we had a public 'fight' between us, the public should also be aware of any follow throughs. Hopefully this thread will get whatever final messages across that we want, and we'll end this peacefully.

My issues with you:

1. Talking down Shuttleu anywhere
I called both you and NCDS to attention for the replies to Shuttleu's thread. I had been in a rush, saw the two of you posted, and didn't have the time to analyse too much, so I just called both to attention, as 'we are one' when it comes to representing MSI. It was quite easy to then notice who the wrong attitude had come from, and that was you. Your posts in the private MSI forums made it clear that you have an issue with Shuttleu. Either solve your issue, or distance yourself from any shuttleu situation. I do not want anyone ruining the slightest little bit of MSI, both as a script, nor as an entity, and you were doing that. Therefore the aggressiveness in the other thread.
2. Talking about things you don't know.
This is rather a personal issue. I find it absolutely stupid and ridiculous that someone goes and talks about something they don't know. You don't know SSRL. Leaked quotes? Yeah sure, but there's 100's of reasons as to why that is bad information.
• Only unusual information gets leaked
• Only exciting information gets leaked
• Customary information is not leaked due to not being exciting and therefore leaks are the worst source to judge SSRL
Those are only a few. The person who leaked might only be leaking certain parts. Being selective. Making you think what they want you to think. Furthermore, you only have access to leaked information. I have daily access to all the SRL forums. Who do you think would have a more accurate view of SSRL ? But as you said, you have an opinion and therefore a right to defend it. But you'll have to excuse me if I pay no attention to it as it is based on a very shaky base.

Now, if you do wish to know, yes, this does happen in SSRL. These are the 'exciting' days of SSRL. Someone had a personal issue with another person or had a problem with something, and therefore spoke up.

What is a usual day at SSRL? You'll have a look around any new threads, post your opinions on issues that affect the forums, how a decision might affect the community, consider other possibilities and discuss the best alternative.

If 'fighting' was all SSRL did, there would be no use for it.


And finally, the reason for the other thread:
You were, to my view, putting forward a bad representation of the entity MSI is, as someone was trying to help and you were talking him down. As you know I've taken MSI to my heart, and therefore it is indeed harder to distance myself when I see someone committing a mistake. You were right in telling me to distance myself, as I got quite emotionally involved in the other thread.

This is not to say I believe to have been wrong. I stick by my points, the only change I'll do is that next time I need to call up someone, I'll be more politically correct about it.

Hopefully, this is enough to clear the issues between us. I would hate to have a tension in our group, as we have worked so perfectly this far.

Distance yourself.

~RM

Can my name be taken out of all this yet..? :/

From: NCDS
Can my name be taken out of all this yet..? :/

It has been ;) It's only there as a fact from the past from the other thread. Sorry for any mis-understandings :p

~RM

From: Rasta Magician
It has been ;) It's only there as a fact from the past from the other thread. Sorry for any mis-understandings :p

~RM

Ah, no worries then.

Thanks :)

I'm still referring you to this in reference to your first point, because I didn't talk down to him (IMO) and I have had many civilized conversations with him during/since, for the MSI team I have worked at being a not-dick in regards to him.

As another point, I was working out in my head how I would apologize for being a dick towards you over msn. I had your window open and everything :p.

To the topic of SSRL, I'm just going to shut up. There isn't a legit way to explain my opinion that I can think of, so it makes sense to just not talk about it anymore. I meant it as an off-hand comment that wasn't well thought out, and by the time I realized it wasn't the right thing to say, it was too late to edit it out of my post.

So I can just comment on my attitude towards Shut then. Sure, he is a helpful fella, and he can do code and stuff, but I think I may have made it clear that he's disrespected myself and friends of myself over the last month or two. To make it clear, no I don't love the guy. I tolerate him for the good of MSI, and I've continued to do that before/after this *discussion*.

This response is going really slowly, I started it 25 minutes ago when you first made the topic. Mainly, I want to argue about how I've not been a dick to him (outside the thread where I explained my dislike for him, which doesn't count IMO) but there really isn't anything to point out. I'd like to tell you that you're wrong, and I wasn't setting a bad example/image for MSI to anyone in the public forums, but I'm sure that I probably have, and it's maybe/most likely been discussed in a forum that I can't view. So although I personally didn't think that I looked like a dick in public, I may have. I dunno. I'll take your word for it.

Except on this quote:

"I do not want anyone ruining the slightest little bit of MSI, both as a script, nor as an entity, and you were doing that. "

I find it complete BS, but you are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mine. I'll agree to disagree because deep down, I still love you.

-Garrett

No garrett, this is not being discussed elsewhere. We're not old gossiping grand mothers.

As for that last quote, yes, we do disagree on the image that you put forward. I think the middle term would be the correct one.

Your stance was not the best one, but it was not incorrect. As you said, it was tolerant.

Knowing you and the way MSI behaves in general, I noticed there was some sort of tension there. And that's why I called up on it.

I (most likely) have exaggerated on the 'badness' of it. But only because I'm used to seeing such a great attitude from you guys, and the contrast was quite big.

~RM

From: Rasta Magician
No garrett, this is not being discussed elsewhere. We're not old gossiping grand mothers.

As for that last quote, yes, we do disagree on the image that you put forward. I think the middle term would be the correct one.

Your stance was not the best one, but it was not incorrect. As you said, it was tolerant.

Knowing you and the way MSI behaves in general, I noticed there was some sort of tension there. And that's why I called up on it.

I (most likely) have exaggerated on the 'badness' of it. But only because I'm used to seeing such a great attitude from you guys, and the contrast was quite big.

~RM

I was making an assumption, seeing as how we're discussing Shut in a setting that he can't view. ;)

I'll keep working on my good attitude. TBH I'm not having a great time at home and it's starting to translate into the forums. I'm sorry, and I know it's not an excuse, I've just been having a shitty time at work, a shitty time at home, and overall it's been really rough. The forums and MSI/scripting are my escape, and I will work really hard to keep from fucking up again.

I'm sorry to everyone/anyone I have offended recently. Basically, what I'm saying is "my bad"

-Garrett

From: 3Garrett3
I was making an assumption, seeing as how we're discussing Shut in a setting that he can't view. ;)

I'll keep working on my good attitude. TBH I'm not having a great time at home and it's starting to translate into the forums. I'm sorry, and I know it's not an excuse, I've just been having a shitty time at work, a shitty time at home, and overall it's been really rough. The forums and MSI/scripting are my escape, and I will work really hard to keep from fucking up again.

I'm sorry to everyone/anyone I have offended recently. Basically, what I'm saying is "my bad"

-Garrett

I wouldn't call it "fucking up" as much as I would call it unnecessary harassment. I haven't really read everything between you and shuttleu, just what I've gotten from this conversation. I know this isn't really my area to butt in but I figure I can throw in my two cents. The only issue with your statement (keeping in mind I'm addressing shuttleu and not the SSRL stuff or whatever else was said) was the nastiness of your sarcasm towards him. I like to think that MSI "officials" (for lack of a better word) demand a fair deal of respect and with that said, it goes both ways. Lowering your maturity level opens you up for criticism and hostility (imo). In a nutshell you faltered down to publicly getting annoyed with shuttleu, and without any concrete evidence I'd like to say you faltered down to his level (this is speculation I didn't read any of the threads).

As for the RL issue's, send me a text sometime, I'm always open to listen :)

I have read very carefully both this thread, the thread before it, and lots of posts relevant to this conversation in the past. Recently, I've refrained from commenting on this matter, but the truth of it, things will only get worse as time progresses at the current rate of which it is.

Therefore, as it is, if you will– "an intervention of sorts" is long .. overdue. Personally, and formally, this is a matter I am familiar with in my own experience and from what I can see others. What you need to understand (you being the reader of this), is, that, Senior SRL Membership is something other than that of what the people in and above it can't see, its a boundless exclusive club that becomes impossible to be a part of, both accidentally and intentionally (out of frustration) after a certain point. SRL has been a community in which active members can trace their roots back 4 or 5 years to 2006 or earlier. We have what, many consider, a very unique community in which has outlasted, many other, similar communities in a sense that we have both residual members… as-well as style.

Garret and I share similar paths in this community, though I may be where I am today and where he is today can be attributed to us both having our periods of inactivity at different times and durations. For a long time, I was "in same the boat".. it feels like being "worked over by the system". I'm going to refrain from names and quotes because honestly, this is undeniable fact — and is far from personal. There are, maybe even (a majority), of people in SSRL that didn't really do shit to get there, at least in comparison to some of the people who have (or are higher ranked). I'm not necessarily saying there are those who don't deserve what they have at all, but there are certainly people in this community who deserve things, possibly, things they will never earn, and for various reasons.. usually conceited reasons.

No system is perfect, we all know that. Rasta Magician, you might have little understanding what it is like to be in a situation like Garret, people like Garret and I were around the community for years… seen people come and go and never comeback.. reach all the way to the top of the ladder in months… literally become the star of the community at times to dwindle away into retirement after hardly even being known by the long term vets. Then, to look at all the work you've done and see someone else that has literally no evidence of tribunal a higher rank than you makes you angry in a deep inner level which can't be expressed nor described. Sure, call it passive aggressiveness and play it off as he's just another tool. But, aren't we better than that? Try and understand what its like to have been here so long and seen so much, but not really be apart of it because Mr. Popular from the IRC wrote a bad review about you on your application. Maybe Garret doesn't know what he's talking about, but that's just it. His frustration is from just that, imagine if the government did absolutely everything behind your back and then imposed new laws on you saying "this is best" with no explanation other than "oh, people higher than you have discussed this thoroughly and this is the best decision for you." then when you complain about how fucked up you think it is they reply with "you don't know what you're talking about, we do everything upstairs where you can't see" Really the reasons for this quarrel between long term vets and SSRL is quite obvious, I don't know why people act like its some big mystery when people bitch about SSRL, are you guys that weren't allowed in really that oblivious? I don't speak for everyone, as there is no such thing as everyone, there will always be exceptions and even minorities, but the point is– this is rarely voiced, so there you have it.

Garrett, I understand your frustration.. I really do, you and I have more in common than you know, SRL tends to feed of shitstorms more than anything, don't give up either, you could make SSRL someday, but it's probably for your best (and everyone's) that this be put far into SRL's past.

I really don't understand the thread about Shuttleu, nor this one. You have literally 3 different people saying the same crap about a guy, and whether or not it's true… am I on the only one that sees a hypocrisy when it's general bashing about someone by a few people and someone joins in only to be ridiculed by the very same people that initiated the conversation? I just don't get it..

The conversations here were made in public, Why? I can understand some MSN/IRC/PM war crap where every doesn't have the temptation to read it, but I literally had to hold myself back several different times from posting something that I'm not even involved in. Tell me the reasoning there. Yet another thread about how "this battle is public" no it's not, its between a few people and their feelings over infinitesimal matters, not something anyone reading this can add meaningful insight to. I mean I understand the occasional joke, but has SRL really come to this? Please tell me this is isn't going to become a regular occurrence.

Icefire, about the publicness:

These MSI forums are somewhat private. That's obvious.
And then, I called up on two people. It was easier to deal with both from once.
And for this one, it is important that it is clear that things between me and garrett are fine.

Also, some posts, such as yours, are very much worth the read, and had this been by PM I would never have read it.

~RM

From: Rasta Magician
Icefire, about the publicness:

These MSI forums are somewhat private. That's obvious.
And then, I called up on two people. It was easier to deal with both from once.
And for this one, it is important that it is clear that things between me and garrett are fine.

Also, some posts, such as yours, are very much worth the read, and had this been by PM I would never have read it.

~RM

True, I'll give it that.

It isn't worth quoting Icefire's post, but I am responding directly at the epicly long post that he made, with a few simple sentences, or so I thought when I started this post..

Everything that you said, that is what's on my mind. You of all people would understand where I'm coming from, and I respect you immensely for putting into words what I can't. I've been here since near the beginning of public SRL, more than a large percentage of the active users around here. I've seen people (Nielsie for example) come from nowhere, become insta-members with a great script, quickly become a developer, and straight to admin. Then disappear. People like Hobbit, who are still minorly active. Those who are the active or inactive staff of today were my community member friends right from the start, 3 and a half years ago. I've seen my fair share of drama, good times, bad times, leaving and coming back.

Sure, I've wanted to be SSRL at points. I know that my chances now, as well as before, have always been slim. I've bashed it many times. First the secrecy, then (as you put it) the people who did utter bullshit to be there. Those who believe that they are amazing because they have the SSRL title, when they clearly do nothing to deserve it.

Someone who has followed my past or been there for most of it will realize that I've grown sick of the *worked over by the system* many times. I've left SRL for periods of time due to problems with the staff multiple times, problems with the system, and the feeling of not being worthy of any rank up for 3 years that I've been here. I guess looking back on it now, I've not really done much worth anything in those 3 years. All of my cups were in the first half year or so that I was here, except the participation in MSI one.

TBH, while RM was being pissed at me I wanted to leave MSI/SRL. I don't want to stay somewhere that I'm not wanted. I've never been good at distancing myself from this community, it's my community. I've been here forever, and I've made lots of friends here. The people I've met have changed my life, and the experience I've gotten here has made me a better person in real life. Having someone I've respected for such a long time say that I was "a big fuck up" hit me hard. We'll not dwell on this because I don't really want to leave, I've got big plans with MSI, and I'm not going to bail on them, regardless of rank and shit.

I'm pretty much just repeating your post, so I'll leave this one be, except to repeat this quote:

imagine if the government did absolutely everything behind your back and then imposed new laws on you saying "this is best" with no explanation other than "oh, people higher than you have discussed this thoroughly and this is the best decision for you." then when you complain about how fucked up you think it is they reply with "you don't know what you're talking about, we do everything upstairs where you can't see"

^This, my good friends, is the best summation of my thoughts on "the system" for the last 3 years.

-Garrett

Garrett, this is life. You do NOT know what goes on behind the scene, it is what it is. If you want to go somewhere, like anything in life, you put yourself out there, and you work. You work hard, and eventually it will pay off. It is always how it works, some will do better than others based on connections, its how you deal with this and move on. Boy, if I got angry anytime someone else did less than me, and got farther… HA. I would have left university due to the mass amount of hypocrisy. The world is full of those who are opportunists; learn to deal with it, and work harder to over come them. You will overcome them, just do not let your ego, nor your emotions get in the way of that.

IceFire, you also do not. You are so naive and full of yourself that you fail to see whats right in front of you. I respect you, but you also are blinded by your own ignorance. This is an example of one of your many attacks on everything while siting little to no proof. You did not progress in this community because you were prone to irrational outbursts. Remember KYAB? Please do not try and be a victim here, you have deserved to be where you are, and its been without any question that it took as long as it did for good reason.

Where people are continually mentioning how people are SSRL and do not deserve it, I want you to point out who they are. For all of us, because quite frankly, I do not think there is anyone who is in SSRL who should not be. SSRL is NOT a place for the in between of Developers and Members, its is the in between of Staff and Members. These are all people who have displayed good character amongst the forums, and are mature enough to be recognized for it. (Some are not always the nicest.. *cough* R0b0t1 *cough*) But when it comes down to it, everyone in there has been around for a long time and has shown that they are mature and knowledgeable enough to benefit and help out where they can.

*sigh*

From: Nava2
Garrett, this is life. You do NOT know what goes on behind the scene, it is what it is. If you want to go somewhere, like anything in life, you put yourself out there, and you work. You work hard, and eventually it will pay off. It is always how it works, some will do better than others based on connections, its how you deal with this and move on. Boy, if I got angry anytime someone else did less than me, and got farther… HA. I would have left university due to the mass amount of hypocrisy. The world is full of those who are opportunists; learn to deal with it, and work harder to over come them. You will overcome them, just do not let your ego, nor your emotions get in the way of that.

This isn't life. This is the internet. This is a small group of around 200 people from everywhere in the world who are here for a single purpose initially, to cheat at a game. Nobody came here thinking that they'd just talk about nothing. This forum isn't structured anything like life, and until it is, you can't simply say it's life.

From: 3Garrett3
This isn't life. This is the internet. This is a small group of around 200 people from everywhere in the world who are here for a single purpose initially, to cheat at a game. Nobody came here thinking that they'd just talk about nothing. This forum isn't structured anything like life, and until it is, you can't simply say it's life.

It is however very relate-able to life and any job/career.

I've worked very hard at very many different jobs to get paid next to nothing and see no promotion until just recently. Honestly, I'm glad I had to work hard for it as it made it feel more rewarding to actually achieve the goal.

The same thing applies to SRL. For a long time I felt I went very un-noticed, but I continued to do what I could to improve the include, the forums, and my own code.

I've been here just about 3 years. I wasn't very active first 3-4 months but then I started trying to get involved with things and improving the include and the community together. It wasn't until MSI though that I started to feel my work being at least somewhat appreciated.


Basically what I'm saying is that SRL can be very discouraging sometimes. You just have to keep a level head, positive attitude, and work hard and you will be rewarded.

A good tip I might add: don't do it for the cup's or ranks or anything. Do it for yourself. Set goals, learn new thing's, and with that will come experience and the valued ranks of SRL :)

From: Nava2
IceFire, you also do not. You are so naive and full of yourself that you fail to see whats right in front of you. I respect you, but you also are blinded by your own ignorance. This is an example of one of your many attacks on everything while siting little to no proof. You did not progress in this community because you were prone to irrational outbursts. Remember KYAB? Please do not try and be a victim here, you have deserved to be where you are, and its been without any question that it took as long as it did for good reason.

Where people are continually mentioning how people are SSRL and do not deserve it, I want you to point out who they are. For all of us, because quite frankly, I do not think there is anyone who is in SSRL who should not be. SSRL is NOT a place for the in between of Developers and Members, its is the in between of Staff and Members. These are all people who have displayed good character amongst the forums, and are mature enough to be recognized for it. (Some are not always the nicest.. *cough* R0b0t1 *cough*) But when it comes down to it, everyone in there has been around for a long time and has shown that they are mature and knowledgeable enough to benefit and help out where they can.

*sigh*

You're attacking me on a personal level, while lecturing me about "irrational outbursts", telling others "not to let emotions or ego" obstruct challenges… and yet you have the audacity to call me "ignorant", "naive", & "full of myself" for being nothing more than a buffer in a 'more or less' fight between two individuals over something as strikingly apparent as SSRL in attempt to resolve a resolution as an outside insightful non-biased party who has had more than enough experience in that matter to give meaningful advice, if you noticed carefully, I refrained from the 'name calling' which started this mess in the first place.It's one thing to say what someone is doing or has said is out of place, it's another to say that that person is [insert insult here], especially when attempting to push a point across about outbursts and naive "attacks on everything".

I'm also noticing the consistency fading on what you've said regarding SSRL, brain/ss23, and apparently now your idea is "I do not think there is anyone who is in SSRL who should not be." sounds a whole lot like the opposite of what I said, and not your previous opinion on this matter. It's funny you remember KYAB, but I don't remember you. If hypocrisy is something you're not to fond of, then why are you constantly guilty of it? It seems that you will only admit something if there's a way of justifying it by comparing it to "the real world". I think I speak for a lot of people when I say, fuck the real world. People don't come to SRL because it's like the real world, it's essentially a dam game forum where enthusiasts meet to collaborate and have fun.. not some place where business executives talk about their next quarterly plan. Places like this exist to get away from that monotonous shit hole, not to mimic it.

There are plenty of dam people in SSRL who don't deserve it as much as others that do, and no, I'm not going to sit here and type out everyone that I think is fake, for the record, these people know who they are, I have faith that they will rise to the position they have been put in. It's the truth, you don't need me or anyone to post prove of this, ask me again and I will simple refuse it's that simple.. besides, it's all around you, and trust me, it's a lot easier to see the mountain as a whole from the base than it is the summit. Those who have struggled here the most at SRL know exactly what I am talking about.

I'm really glad I fucked up a couple times, at the end of the day it's more satisfying to know I was never handed anything here, it makes victory really that much more sweet. I don't know if I should come to the conclusion that there are just certain people who are haters, Nava2, you can have this thread. I really don't give a flying crap anymore, all this bullshit has just made me stronger.

This thread

Indeed, it is about time this thread got closed. I already see the arguments starting to go in circles.

And Garrett, I meant to say you fucked you, not that you are one. And I could've sworn on both feet that I had said you fucked up, but I can see from both your posts and Ice's that I called you one. My apologies on that.

~RM