SRL Archive - Discussions & Debates

well Freddy1990 has just announced SCAR 3.25 Alpha, but is it too late and do you think that there is a place for SCAR anymore at SRL or is it time for it to move aside graciously and let Simba take over?

Thoughts?
Discuss!

~shut

Yes. When Simba was announced a long time ago, Freddy said he would continue to develop SCAR further, and nobody had a problem with that, there would be 2 programs available to use.

From: Shuttleu
well Freddy1990 has just announced SCAR 3.25 Alpha, but is it too late and do you think that there is a place for SCAR anymore or is it time for it to move aside graciously and let Simba take over?

Thoughts?
Discuss!

~shut

I think this has been gradually happening since Simba was publicly announced.

It's really not up to us. It's technically freddy's program, no one can stop him from developing it, and I really see no issue with it.

The fact that certain thing's are starting to only work with Simba will have a great effect on the overall outcome though.

You have to remember that people use SCAR for things other than RuneScape, and apart from this community. SCAR will have use for awhile. Simba will just excel here at SRL. I voted no, as I read it assuming you meant in RuneScape cheating here on these forums.

Definitely yes.
SRL 5 will be only simba anyway, no?
So maybe not for us but I find scar a great program generally. Maybe it won't be as great as simba(I just don't think that 1 developer can beat many even if it's Freddy :p), but it will surely serve people(non-srl).

From: i luffs yeww
You have to remember that people use SCAR for things other than RuneScape, and apart from this community. SCAR will have use for awhile. Simba will just excel here at SRL. I voted no, as I read it assuming you meant in RuneScape cheating here on these forums.

yes i did mean at srl
i have updated the first post to make it clear :)

~shut

Well… I hear rumors about some making an RS include for SCAR

From: Zyt3x
Well… I hear rumors about some making an RS include for SCAR

I don't ever see another "SRL" coming anywhere near as close to where this one is. Not necessarily a bad idea though I guess as long as you have the ambition.

You can't force people to choose, if that what you're asking.

From: Zyt3x
Well… I hear rumors about some making an RS include for SCAR

uhh, why not just write a compatibility layer for Simba –> SCAR?

Everyone is free to choose what he or she wants to use, but that doesn't mean SRL will be supporting SCAR forever. (If people want to use scar per say then can port the parts of SRL to work with SCAR. SRL is open source after all)

Simba already works fine with most scripts, it is very stable and a fine tool to script with. Obviously improvements (mainly to the GUI) have to be made, but once Raymond and Nielsie return I can assure you a lot more will be done. ;)
Remember that Simba has been in development for a long time, and that the main focus back then was creating a stable library for macroing. We have largely succeeded in this which means we don't have to tweak that library a lot. It's the GUI that still needs improvements. Once (hopefully soon!) some bugs in the interpreter are fixed, we can also have Simba on Linux (and Mac), which is super awesome. Simba 2.0 will probably feature a different interpreter, even better multi processing and remote control. The funny fact is that Simba 2.0 probably isn't too far away. (We'll only need to integrate the interpreter and rewrite some GUI parts, because the macro library is already very stable and feature full)

Simba is also maintainable by everyone, which is another great advantage. There have been numerous quarrels with Freddy and various SRL Developers (usually different ones every time) about features that should or should not be in SCAR. Now that the SRL Developers have their own open source program these issues no longer remain, and we can customize Simba to work the way we want it with SRL.

And if someone else doesn't like it, he can start his own Simba which contains the feature he wants. It's as simple as that. The freedom to do whatever the fuck he/she wants to. (As long as his program is also open source)

Right, I think I diverted a bit from the original point… Anyway… so everyone can work on it, maintain it, extend it. I've seen extensions from several people from SRL, someone else is working on pretty Settings form, yet another person is investigating Mac OS X support, etc.

In my eyes Simba is the future for SRL, and not SCAR. A lot of people have been using Simba lately and I've hardly heard of any serious script-related bugs, so stability surely isn't an issue.

And if someone else doesn't like it, he can start his own Simba which contains the feature he wants. It's as simple as that. The freedom to do whatever the fuck he/she wants to. (As long as his program is also open source)

Do you actually think this will happen? The vast majority will suggest a feature to you and if you don't add it, then that will be that. Then there will be a small percentage that might even go so far as to code the part that they want for you guys, so you just have to add it. But in the instance that you just dont think it will be a good feature, i doubt anything will be done in the area of them making their own version of Simba. To release anything using that functionality, everyone else would also need that version. Anyone that would try doing such a thing will realize this and simply not do it. For this type of thing, the openness is for the most part a facade to garner popularity imo.

I don't see why the two can't live peacefully side by side, they each have their own merits imo, so in the case where it really becomes a hassle to change the few lines to make a script compatible with the other, i think freddy may have mentioned that he might make a compatibility mode. Though i think it would be in the best interests of everyone if they both made a compatibility mode. I think i suggested it before and i was told that if such a thing were to be made it would have to be by freddy, but to me it would make more sense if they both made one so everyone could interchangeably code in either and it would work in either. To me, the refusal of Simba to have one just because they dont think they should be the ones to do it is a bit contrary to the attitude of the developers when they first revealed Simba.

Considering SRL is made to mainly work with Simba, SCAR will probably fall into disuse, unless it becomes useful for something else. The fact that Simba is so "generally programmable" kind of directly competes with SCAR.

Only no because I disagree with this post, not in regards to your question.

From: Dan Cardin
Do you actually think this will happen? The vast majority will suggest a feature to you and if you don't add it, then that will be that. Then there will be a small percentage that might even go so far as to code the part that they want for you guys, so you just have to add it. But in the instance that you just dont think it will be a good feature, i doubt anything will be done in the area of them making their own version of Simba. To release anything using that functionality, everyone else would also need that version. Anyone that would try doing such a thing will realize this and simply not do it. For this type of thing, the openness is for the most part a facade to garner popularity imo.

If Simba was maintained by someone else, and it would go the way SCAR went I would have forked it, yeah. I suspect other people can do the same. Thanks for the compliment though, because people unlikely to fork it means the Simba devs are doing a good job. ;)
Openness to gain popularity? I think you just stated reasons for being open that have nothing to do with popularity. Other people coding, everyone being able to change it, fix bugs… It leads to a better product. Better products lead to popular products.

From: Dan Cardin
I don't see why the two can't live peacefully side by side, they each have their own merits imo, so in the case where it really becomes a hassle to change the few lines to make a script compatible with the other, i think freddy may have mentioned that he might make a compatibility mode. Though i think it would be in the best interests of everyone if they both made a compatibility mode. I think i suggested it before and i was told that if such a thing were to be made it would have to be by freddy, but to me it would make more sense if they both made one so everyone could interchangeably code in either and it would work in either. To me, the refusal of Simba to have one just because they dont think they should be the ones to do it is a bit contrary to the attitude of the developers when they first revealed Simba.

As I have previously stated, they can live side by side. This doesn't mean SRL will still support it. Freddy has his own community, and SRL has it's own community.

Simba already has a compatibility mode; Simba.simba
But as stated, it won't live forever.

Making them work interchangeably is just plain unrealistic. Suggesting this is the same as suggesting that Freddy now starts working on Simba and drops SCAR. (Other way around could be suggested but is even less realistic as Freddy has SCAR as closed source.) If they would be interchangeable, then why would one use one product instead of the other? Because one works on all platforms? Because one is open? Because one "looks prettier" than the other?

I honestly don't think there's much room for it at SRL anymore, but it's a free choice. I mean, who will use it if all the script will be/are written for Simba and don't compile in SCAR.

Although it's really much better now that the community has their own open source bot. It's developing much faster and the priority of the developers is to make it as good as possible for running runescape srpits for this forum, which wasn't the case with SCAR. Overall, I don't really see a problem with this happening now, it wouldn't be if SCAR became ope source.

From: Wizzup?
If Simba was maintained by someone else, and it would go the way SCAR went I would have forked it, yeah. I suspect other people can do the same. Thanks for the compliment though, because people unlikely to fork it means the Simba devs are doing a good job. ;)
Openness to gain popularity? I think you just stated reasons for being open that have nothing to do with popularity. Other people coding, everyone being able to change it, fix bugs… It leads to a better product. Better products lead to popular products.

People unlikely to fork it not because they are happy with Simba, but because their own fork would never get used, if i get the meaning correctly, is obviously not a compliment. Which is why i disagree with your next statement. Other people coding and everyone being able to change it. Really, you have the devs and a couple of other that are helping, the vast majority doesnt help at all. But you still see the vast majority saying "omg yay OS! i can look at the source and everything!" even though they dont/wont. So the benefits of OS in this kind of program are limited.

From: Wizzup?
As I have previously stated, they can live side by side. This doesn't mean SRL will still support it. Freddy has his own community, and SRL has it's own community.

Simba already has a compatibility mode; Simba.simba
But as stated, it won't live forever.

Making them work interchangeably is just plain unrealistic. Suggesting this is the same as suggesting that Freddy now starts working on Simba and drops SCAR. (Other way around could be suggested but is even less realistic as Freddy has SCAR as closed source.) If they would be interchangeable, then why would one use one product instead of the other? Because one works on all platforms? Because one is open? Because one "looks prettier" than the other?

But as stated, it won't live forever. Why? You don't want to update it, or what? If they would work interchangeably then it would be for the people to decide which one they want to use. Linux people would probably use Simba once it gets its compatibility all straightened out. etc. Its like all the various notepad variants. They all edit text files and are intercompatible, but everyone uses a different one because they each have their own advantages to the individual person.

From: Dan Cardin
People unlikely to fork it not because they are happy with Simba, but because their own fork would never get used, if i get the meaning correctly, is obviously not a compliment. Which is why i disagree with your next statement. Other people coding and everyone being able to change it. Really, you have the devs and a couple of other that are helping, the vast majority doesnt help at all. But you still see the vast majority saying "omg yay OS! i can look at the source and everything!" even though they dont/wont. So the benefits of OS in this kind of program are limited.

Oh, but they do look at the source. I've heard a lot of people telling me they messed a bit with Lazarus/Simba without ever posting about it. You're putting it like being Open Source doesn't have any benefits, even though the benefits are huge… :confused:

A couple of devs? It was just me and Raymond really. Lots of people joined in (some early, niels, ben… some later), did some bits, give feedback. Now more and more people are writing stuff. It probably isn't anything too major, but it does help. That is a benefit no matter how you look at it. It also seems that Simba managed to achieve it's deadlines more or less. Why? Because it's not just me or Raymond doing all the work. :)
Another benefit could be that we can freely use all the other open source components that exist. There's a pretty cool interpreter that's GPL'd and we will probably use it in Simba 2.0.

From: Dan Cardin
But as stated, it won't live forever. Why? You don't want to update it, or what? If they would work interchangeably then it would be for the people to decide which one they want to use. Linux people would probably use Simba once it gets its compatibility all straightened out. etc. Its like all the various notepad variants. They all edit text files and are intercompatible, but everyone uses a different one because they each have their own advantages to the individual person.

Obviously I have no intention to update it for SCAR. If someone has that intention, then he/she is free to do so, as long as it doesn't bother SRL/Simba.

Your notepad example is silly, as one of the few things Simba and SCAR are compatible in, is the code editing. Both have code code hints and completion.

The interpreting of the script, the forms, the internal functions, etc. That's all different, and it's not likely to change.

/done

From: Wizzup?
Oh, but they do look at the source. I've heard a lot of people telling me they messed a bit with Lazarus/Simba without ever posting about it.

Like me! Not with Lazarus, but I have been looking through the code as I love learning from the code and I was always interested about certain things, now I can look at the source.(I have also "stole" some bit of code for my personal projects(to learn/practice, nothing serious :)))
Posted so Dan can see an example :p.

the forms indeed are different, but from what i can see the rest is very easy to do, and from the fact that you have a compatibility layer right now, i assume im right. But as for Sabzi, i acknowledge that it may help you, but my doubts lie in the area of the code being used by people to further Simba itself as something that anyone can/will do.

From: Dan Cardin
the forms indeed are different, but from what i can see the rest is very easy to do, and from the fact that you have a compatibility layer right now, i assume im right. But as for Sabzi, i acknowledge that it may help you, but my doubts lie in the area of the code being used by people to further Simba itself as something that anyone can/will do.

Commit from several days before this thread: http://git.villavu.com/?p=simba.git;a=commit;h=312519e3e8b8241a5b2c3ad267c6fc0e1c5a3f47

"Patch by Sabzi" :)

I believe there is a place for scar within the Runescape cheating community as a whole, but with the SRL community I believe it no longer has a place.

Freddy has his own community I will remind you ;)

From: i luffs yeww
You have to remember that people use SCAR for things other than RuneScape

Does anyone actually do that?

^ Yes. Zephypoo made me a bingo card maker (typed them all out in OO) for extra credit in Spanish last year. :) And you can use it for neopets, flash games, etc. Or for voting and what not. It's a macroing program, just like Simba. Macros can be used a lot.

And I think I remember someone working in accounting or something making a script to do his job for him which cut his work time virtually 100%. I used it to reconcile my dad's bank statement a few times, too. Still do if I'm around when he's doing it.

From: bbri06
Does anyone actually do that?

I have used scar for many things(now I switched to simba). And I know about others too. So yeah.

From: i luffs yeww
^ Yes. Zephypoo made me a bingo card maker (typed them all out in OO) for extra credit in Spanish last year. :) And you can use it for neopets, flash games, etc. Or for voting and what not. It's a macroing program, just like Simba. Macros can be used a lot.

And I think I remember someone working in accounting or something making a script to do his job for him which cut his work time virtually 100%. I used it to reconcile my dad's bank statement a few times, too. Still do if I'm around when he's doing it.

Are my posts ignored by default? I specifically made note of the fact that Simba could do these things as well, and is in direct competition with SCAR.

^ No, I agree with you. :p I was just replying to whoever else said something. Simba's much better for all of those things imo. Performance and ease of use-wise.

To be honest, SCAR doesn't have much use. However, people will still use it for a little while at least.

No, not singling out you. Just like everybody in general.

Oh okay. Now I won't be defensive because there's less of a chance that I'll be pointed out because I fear being wrong.

;_;

Yes. I use scar to auto on various MMORPG's. Easy now since I have written very complex scripts for runescape.

Most other games are easier to macro on so it doesn't take that long to make a good script

From: cycrosism
Yes. I use scar to auto on various MMORPG's.

As you can with Simba. Simba isn't just limited to RuneScape you know..

I personally still use scar for the dtm editor but when I try to use the dtm, simba doesn't find it. So I'm trying to make my script 100% reflection lol.

I personally hope not lol. I like a lot of features in simba, but it lacks many important scar features which I use constantly.

If simba was updated to contain EVERY present scar function, then I would stop using scar more than likely.

Well you can always suggest those functions to be added. :) I'm sure they will be if they'd be useful.

Just out of curiosity, what are some off the top of your head that are in SCAR but not Simba?

[QUOTE=Dan's The Man;727686]As you can with Simba. Simba isn't just limited to RuneScape you know..

Well I could either download simba and rewrite all my scripts i've written for other mmorpg's to suit simba, or I continue using scar, the way I have been for a long time now.

Thanks for the advice, but I think I'll continue using scar.

You don't have to write them. They should work just fine.