SRL Archive - NOTA

[INDENT]Hello :)

So I'm thinking about building my own tower. Why, you ask? Well, my current computer works fine, I have no complaints. However, I can't play many on high graphics. Yes, I know, I could just get a new graphics card, but where's the fun in that? :rolleyes: I also think it would be cool to put it together myself.

I can spend quite a bit of money, but I would rather not. I'd like to get the cheapest tower possible, but I'd still like it to be a good computer in a few years. Basically I'd like to:

• Play whatever games I want on full graphics. I really only play COD MW2 and CS: Source every once in a while, but I'd like to be able to play the new games on high graphics.
• Not that I have a whole lot of music/movies, but I would like a lot of space for that stuff.
• Your everyday activity (internet, office, music, etc.).

For the last couple hours, I've been looking through TigerDirect for the parts I would need. Yeah, I only looked on one site. This was because it's Canadian, and I'd like to keep it that way. Here are what I thought would work nicely (the ones I've bolded are my number one choices).

Cases

• Rosewill CHALLENGER Black Gaming ATX Mid Tower Computer Case ($49.99)
• Cooler Master Storm Scout ATX Mid-Tower Black Case ($79.99)

Hard drives

• Seagate ST31000528AS Barracuda 7200.12 Hard Drive ($74.97)
• Western Digital WD10EARS Caviar Green Hard Drive ($74.97)
• Seagate ST3500418AS Barracuda 7200.12 Hard Drive ($62.99)

CD/DVD burners

• Lite-On IHAS124-04 Internal DVD Writer ($19.97)

CPUs

• AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz ($161.90, fan included)
• AMD Phenom II X2 555 Dual Core Processor ($124.99, fan included)
• Intel Core i3-530 Clarkdale 2.93GHz 4MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 73W Dual-Core Desktop Processor ($121.99, fan included)

Motherboards

• ASRock 770 EXTREME3 AM3 AMD 770 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard ($94.99)
• Asus P5N-D Motherboard & Ultra LSP750 750-Watt Power Supply Bundle ($139.99, power supply included)
• ASUS P5N-D Motherboard - NVIDIA nForce 750i SLI, Socket 775, ATX, Audio, PCI Express 2.0, Gigabit LAN, S/PDIF, USB 2.0, Firewire, Serial ATA, RAID ($89.99)

Memory

• http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227582 ($91.99)
• OCZ SLI-Ready Dual Channel 4096MB PC6400 DDR2 800MHz Memory ($99.97)

Power supplies

• Ultra LSP750 750-Watt Power Supply - ATX, SATA-Ready, SLI-Ready, 135mm Fan, Lifetime Warranty ($79.99)
• XION Power Real 1000W ATX Power Supply ($124.99)

Video cards

• XFX HD-577X-ZNFC Radeon HD 5770 1GB ($169.99)
• Visiontek 900326 Radeon HD 5670 Video Card ($104.99)

Now with all of my first choices, I have no idea whether they would work well together, nor if they're even compatible. The total (including tax and shipping) is about $878.20CAD. If I could lower that without losing too much performance, that would be great. :p Oh, plus $100 or so for Windows 7 (I haven't decided whether to buy it or not). It's also possible I forgot a part(s) as I know next to nothing about computer hardware. :p

Any suggestions are appreciated. :)

Thanks,
Coh3n[/INDENT]

Case #2
HDD #2
CD/DVD burner #1
CPU #1
(For a cooler i would recommend: Zalman CNPS10X Extreme)
MB #1
Memory #1
PS #1
GFX Card #2

Those are the ones I recommend.

And those are compatible.

From: Frement
Case #2
HDD #2
CD/DVD burner #1
CPU #1
(For a cooler i would recommend: Zalman CNPS10X Extreme)
MB #1
Memory #1
PS #1
GFX Card #2

Those are the ones I recommend.

And those are compatible.

Haha, I knew someone was going to up the graphics card. :rolleyes: And the first CPU comes with a fan.

Thanks Frement. :)

E: Your recommendations is about $930.96CAD after taxes, but I may regret not getting the better graphics card.

Whats your budget?

I have the same CPU, and I got the Zalman CNPS10X for its cooler, its much better then the one that comes with the CPU.

I have GTX 280 as GFX card, it was around 350€ when I bought it 1 year ago.

From: Capricorn
Whats your budget?

I don't want to go over $1000, and even that may be too much.

From: Frement
I have the same CPU, and I got the Zalman CNPS10X for its cooler, its much better then the one that comes with the CPU.

I have GTX 280 as GFX card, it was around 350€ when I bought it 1 year ago.

If I was to buy the fan separate, I would buy the CPU that doesn't come with a fan. Is the #1 CPU that much better than the #2? Because I could get #2 with the fan that you suggest.

I wouldn't get Intel ^^

But just my opinion, I prefer AMD, and I recommend that CPU because I have it and its good.

I always replace the fan that comes with CPU.

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119216
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341016
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103064
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152185
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150462
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227478
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130272
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115215

946$ before taxes and shipping.

Edit: Second looking over some stuff. Mobo is a crossfire mobo and you may be able to goto a cheaper priced mobo and get a 5850. Not sure sure though. Which will probably put you maybe around 1030$ or so. Otherwise you should buy a second 5770 and crossfire them. Sad thing is this build falls under 1k for American's with two 5770s :(

You can replace the CPU with http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115222&cm_re=i3_530-_-19-115-222-_-Product and the mobo with http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128420&cm_re=GA-H55M-_-13-128-420-_-Product

If you don't want to buy 2 5770's which will bring you down a price bracket

From: Frement
I wouldn't get Intel ^^

But just my opinion, I prefer AMD, and I recommend that CPU because I have it and its good.

I always replace the fan that comes with CPU.

But would I run into issues if I used the fan that came with it? I would hope not at least.

From: Capricorn
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119216
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341016
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103064
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152185
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150462
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227478
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130272
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115215

946$ before taxes and shipping.

Edit: Second looking over some stuff. Mobo is a crossfire mobo and you may be able to goto a cheaper priced mobo and get a 5850. Not sure sure though. Which will probably put you maybe around 1030$ or so. Otherwise you should buy a second 5770 and crossfire them. Sad thing is this build falls under 1k for American's with two 5770s :(

You can replace the CPU with http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115222&cm_re=i3_530-_-19-115-222-_-Product and the mobo with http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128420&cm_re=GA-H55M-_-13-128-420-_-Product

If you don't want to buy 2 5770's which will bring you down a price bracket

What? Are you talking about having two graphics cards?

Yes CrossFire is ATI's solution for using two or more GPU's in parallel. Sometimes when you add in a second GPU, you only see a 30% improvement or so, but sometimes, and very rarely do you get amazing returns. The 4770's last generation was a amazing example of this, where you could buy two 100$ cards and crossfire them to get performance of a 320$ card. The 5770s scale pretty well in Crossfire.

From: Capricorn
Yes CrossFire is ATI's solution for using two or more GPU's in parallel. Sometimes when you add in a second GPU, you only see a 30% improvement or so, but sometimes, and very rarely do you get amazing returns. The 4770's last generation was a amazing example of this, where you could buy two 100$ cards and crossfire them to get performance of a 320$ card. The 5770s scale pretty well in Crossfire.

Lol, that sounds pretty complicated. :p I just want a card that I can play whatever game I want on full graphics.

From: Coh3n
Lol, that sounds pretty complicated. :p I just want a card that I can play whatever game I want on full graphics.

Depends largely on the game and what you mean by full graphics…

From: Capricorn
Depends largely on the game and what you mean by full graphics…

COD MW2 for example, with all the graphics as high as they can go.

Well considering MW2 isn't the most back breaking game then yeah you should be fine even at 2560x1600. MW2 is pretty forgiving.

The build I recommended will do just fine without the new fan.

From: Capricorn
Well considering MW2 isn't the most back breaking game then yeah you should be fine even at 2560x1600. MW2 is pretty forgiving.

I don't really plan on playing the huge graphics demanding games (Crysis is it?), but I would like to play games that come out in a couple years.

From: Frement
The build I recommended will do just fine without the new fan.

Okay, thanks. :)

Hmm, what about this graphics card? I would assume it's in between the two I have on the first post.

From: Coh3n
Hmm, what about this graphics card? I would assume it's in between the two I have on the first post.

Should do just fine also.

From: Frement
Should do just fine also.

Awesome, thank you. :D

Actually depending on when your buying, if you go with my my suggestion with the i3 then you can buy a GTX 460 instead which completely stomps the 5770 and will fit within your budget.

Edit: Pretty confident a 5670 won't play MW2 max. Just throwing that out there. And it definitely won't play DX10 games at max.

From: Capricorn
Actually depending on when your buying, if you go with my my suggestion with the i3 then you can buy a GTX 460 instead which completely stomps the 5770 and will fit within your budget.

Yeah, I guess it depends on what I'd rather have, a better graphics card or better CPU.

If you compare the price of Intel vs. AMD, AMD is cheaper. With 1k$ budget I suggest going for cheaper rather then more expensive.

From: Frement
If you compare the price of Intel vs. AMD, AMD is cheaper. With 1k$ budget I suggest going for cheaper rather then more expensive.

I think this would be a good time for me to win the lottery. :rolleyes:

From: Coh3n
Yeah, I guess it depends on what I'd rather have, a better graphics card or better CPU.

No not really… You can get both. the i3 530 competes with the phenom II 950.

If you compare the price of Intel vs. AMD, AMD is cheaper. With 1k$ budget I suggest going for cheaper rather then more expensive.

Yeah, if you compare the price of a helicopter to a car, the car is cheaper. One flys and one has wheels.

From: Capricorn
No not really… You can get both. the i3 530 competes with the phenom II 950.

The phenom is quad core 3.2GHz, and the i3 is 2.93 duel… I would assume the phenom is a lot better.

From: Coh3n
The phenom is quad core 3.2GHz, and the i3 is 2.93 duel… I would assume the phenom is a lot better.

More cores != better

From: Capricorn
More cores != better

Oh really? :eek: What does it mean then? :o

From: Coh3n
Oh really? :eek: What does it mean then? :o

It means then for some tasks, having two extra cores comes in handy. The problem is, programming for multiple cores isn't easy and a lot of stuff doesn't use more than two cores.

For games, the i3 530 and the 950 BE is a difference of about 5 FPS going for the AMD chip. Difference is 80$ with Intel.

Edit: And most stuff is GPU limited and not CPU limited.

Ohh okay I didn't realize that. Guess I have a delema here. Let's see if we can get someone other than yours and Frement's opinion. :rolleyes:

Thanks for all the help though :)

Woah. Dont buy tigerdirect mate. Newegg is cheaper and ships to canada.

Tigerdirect is a good company, I've dealt with them before.

But yeah, Newegg has a canadian site too, iirc. It's probably around the same price though.

E: Getting the i3 is a better decision IMO. I have the i5 and the processor is only 2.3GHz but it is ranked higher for performance than a quad core 2.8GHz apparently. Because requirements for one of the games I downloaded yesterday was 2.8Ghz pentium quad core, and mine plays it on very high graphics.

I'd recommend shelling out the cash for a better gfx card, because in the future, graphics are only going to keep getting better. Spending the 200 now rather than spending the 100 every year or two would pay off in the long run.

Difference of 40$ between the 955 BE's for newegg.ca. So no, its not similar at all.

Are you on Canadian $ for each one though? I wouldn't imagine it would be that much more expensive..

Yeah both are in Canadian currency.

Well then fuck me sideways and call me sally. Use newegg I suppose :P

Okay, I've switched out the processors, I now have the i3 has my first choice which brought my total down $80. :) I'll look more on Newegg tomorrow night, see if any of the same parts are cheaper.

Thanks again guys. :)

E: The case I want is $35 cheaper at Newegg and has free shipping. :)
E2: The HDD I want is the same price, but has free shipping.
E3: Motherboard is $10 cheaper.

From: Capricorn
Yeah, if you compare the price of a helicopter to a car, the car is cheaper. One flys and one has wheels.

Totally this. You wanted more opinion so I say go with the i3(intel). IMO intel is better in price performance ratio(lol just google translated this).
But Capricorn has much more knowledge in this then me so I'm only agreeing with him :).
Nice price reduction with newegg there.

Thanks Sabzi. :) And yeah, I didn't realize how much cheaper it was.

From: Coh3n
Okay, I've switched out the processors, I now have the i3 has my first choice which brought my total down $80. :) I'll look more on Newegg tomorrow night, see if any of the same parts are cheaper.

Thanks again guys. :)

E: The case I want is $35 cheaper at Newegg and has free shipping. :)
E2: The HDD I want is the same price, but has free shipping.
E3: Motherboard is $10 cheaper.

What mobo is that?

From: Capricorn
What mobo is that?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131595

E: Oops, most of the newegg ones I switched to are Newegg.com, not Newegg.ca. I'll sort that out now.

From: Coh3n
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131595

Yeah. that won't work with a i3 CPU lol.

From: Capricorn
Yeah. that won't work with a i3 CPU lol.

Lol well I guess I should choose a different one then. :p

From: Coh3n
Lol well I guess I should choose a different one then. :p

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Property&Subcategory=280&Description=&Type=&N=100007626+600007888&IsNodeId=1&srchInDesc=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&PropertyCodeValue=706%3A53841&PropertyCodeValue=706%3A50781&PropertyCodeValue=706%3A56289

From: Capricorn
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Property&Subcategory=280&Description=&Type=&N=100007626+600007888&IsNodeId=1&srchInDesc=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&PropertyCodeValue=706%3A53841&PropertyCodeValue=706%3A50781&PropertyCodeValue=706%3A56289

Oh that's cool, I didn't know you could do that. Thanks :)

E: I don't know, this CPU is cheaper, and will support the motherboard I want.

I think I have the configuration I want, unless someone can point out something significantly better. :)

I don't really think anything we say at this point is going to change the fact that your dead set on what you originally wanted.

From: Capricorn
I don't really think anything we say at this point is going to change the fact that your dead set on what you originally wanted.

Lol, well I've changed things around a bit, but yeah I basically ended up with what I originally had. I've also talked to Hobbit (a computer technician) and a couple people I know IRL, and they said this setup will work just fine. ^^

I appreciate all your guys' help. :)

From: Sabzi
IMO intel is better in price performance ratio

Looking at this site, AMD Phenom II X4 955 @ 3.20GHz is rated 3937 and its around $160. The Intel equivalent is Intel Core2 Quad Q9450 @ 2.66GHz is rated 4024 and is around $316.

For AMD: every 1 of a rating is about $0.04
For Intel: every 1 of a rating is about $0.08

So, AMD is better in performance : price ratio, but Intel wins in highest performance.

On the other hand, Coh3n, I highly recommend getting a mobo that supports DDR3 ram. With the computer I've built for myself (parts coming Wednesday / Thursday), I purchased 4gb DDR3 1600ghz for $98 ($10 off regular price). My ram is 2x faster than your preferred ram and it's the same price.

Look at the build I made for my cousin:
http://secure.newegg.ca/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=11199494

I think it's cheaper than your build.

From: TRiLeZ
Looking at this site, AMD Phenom II X4 955 @ 3.20GHz is rated 3937 and its around $160. The Intel equivalent is Intel Core2 Quad Q9450 @ 2.66GHz is rated 4024 and is around $316.

For AMD: every 1 of a rating is about $0.04
For Intel: every 1 of a rating is about $0.08

So, AMD is better in performance : price ratio, but Intel wins in highest performance.

But the Intel i3 or i5 are probably better performance, no? I'm not that great with computers, but I know that my machine stacks up well even though the GHz are less, and I have an i5. Just throwing it out there that you aren't comparing the most recent Intel product.

From: TRiLeZ
Looking at this site, AMD Phenom II X4 955 @ 3.20GHz is rated 3937 and its around $160. The Intel equivalent is Intel Core2 Quad Q9450 @ 2.66GHz is rated 4024 and is around $316.

For AMD: every 1 of a rating is about $0.04
For Intel: every 1 of a rating is about $0.08

So, AMD is better in performance : price ratio, but Intel wins in highest performance.

On the other hand, Coh3n, I highly recommend getting a mobo that supports DDR3 ram. With the computer I've built for myself (parts coming Wednesday / Thursday), I purchased 4gb DDR3 1600ghz for $98 ($10 off regular price). My ram is 2x faster than your preferred ram and it's the same price.

Look at the build I made for my cousin:
http://secure.newegg.ca/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=11199494

I think it's cheaper than your build.

Thanks very much! I've switched to the motherboard in that wishlist, but chose OCZ ram instead. It's cheaper, and was recommended by Hobbit. <3

From: 3Garrett3
But the Intel i3 or i5 are probably better performance, no? I'm not that great with computers, but I know that my machine stacks up well even though the GHz are less, and I have an i5. Just throwing it out there that you aren't comparing the most recent Intel product.

I chose the Phenom more or less because it's quad core and it shouldn't be outdated in a couple years (*I hope*). Also, it wasn't that much more than the others I was considering. :)

From: TRiLeZ
Looking at this site, AMD Phenom II X4 955 @ 3.20GHz is rated 3937 and its around $160. The Intel equivalent is Intel Core2 Quad Q9450 @ 2.66GHz is rated 4024 and is around $316.

lolno. The Intel Core Quad line up is last generation.

And second, that website uses a synthetic benchmark, which means what is shown there is not going to relate to the real world.

Intel really doesn't have anything interesting around the 160$ mark. But to give you a comparison of REAL WORLD benchmarks.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/109?vs=147

We have two similar priced CPU's from Intel and AMD, and we have some interesting results. Knowing what type of programs you run is VERY important for making a CPU purchase. As we can see from the results, the i5 750 beats the 1055T in almost zero of the programs that use multiple cores (Video rendering, synthetic benchmarks that use multiple cores, raytracing) but then we go down into stuff that relies heavily on one or two powerful cores and the i5 750 smashes the 1055T. There isn't any game where the 1055T performs better.

AMD and Intel are not competing directly. AMD cannot beat Intel at their own game. Intel has superior clock vs clock speeds when comparing similar generation CPU's. AMD realized this and has decided that instead of competing against Intel at having faster CPU's at similar clock speeds, they started building CPU's with more cores at similar prices. AMD is targeting a entirely different consumer than Intel is at this point.

For the average person who uses the internet, reads email, word processes and does gaming, you will not have ANY advantage to using a AMD cpu until games start utilizing 4/6/8 cores.

Ask yourself this, am I a hobbyist director? Do I do graphics on a consistent basis? Do I work in a environment which requires virtualization? Well then you should probably buy AMD, since they have the most cores per $.

I honestly do not even think there is a reason to buy a CPU in the 160$ range. AMD just doesn't compete* at that price range compared to lower priced Intel and once you hit 200$ your best off buying a i5 750 for gaming. Which is what OP should have gotten when he said his budget was 1k, but then he decided he didn't want to spend that much.

*for gaming

From: Capricorn
lolno. The Intel Core Quad line up is last generation.

And second, that website uses a synthetic benchmark, which means what is shown there is not going to relate to the real world.

Intel really doesn't have anything interesting around the 160$ mark. But to give you a comparison of REAL WORLD benchmarks.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/109?vs=147

We have two similar priced CPU's from Intel and AMD, and we have some interesting results. Knowing what type of programs you run is VERY important for making a CPU purchase. As we can see from the results, the i5 750 beats the 1055T in almost zero of the programs that use multiple cores (Video rendering, synthetic benchmarks that use multiple cores, raytracing) but then we go down into stuff that relies heavily on one or two powerful cores and the i5 750 smashes the 1055T. There isn't any game where the 1055T performs better.

AMD and Intel are not competing directly. AMD cannot beat Intel at their own game. Intel has superior clock vs clock speeds when comparing similar generation CPU's. AMD realized this and has decided that instead of competing against Intel at having faster CPU's at similar clock speeds, they started building CPU's with more cores at similar prices. AMD is targeting a entirely different consumer than Intel is at this point.

For the average person who uses the internet, reads email, word processes and does gaming, you will not have ANY advantage to using a AMD cpu until games start utilizing 4/6/8 cores.

Ask yourself this, am I a hobbyist director? Do I do graphics on a consistent basis? Do I work in a environment which requires virtualization? Well then you should probably buy AMD, since they have the most cores per $.

I honestly do not even think there is a reason to buy a CPU in the 160$ range. AMD just doesn't compete* at that price range compared to lower priced Intel and once you hit 200$ your best off buying a i5 750 for gaming. Which is what OP should have gotten when he said his budget was 1k, but then he decided he didn't want to spend that much.

*for gaming

I hear what you're saying, and the be quite honest, I've done a little bit of everything: gaming, video editing/graphics, internet, programming and probably others. Do I know what my main focus will be in a couple years, no, but what IF some games next year decide to use 4/6/8 cores? I don't want to have to replace what I have.

Honestly, I think I would be just fine with whichever CPU I chose, I just decided to go with the AMD.

Well, if they are going to be multi-core, then 4 will be just fine.

From: Frement
Well, if they are going to be multi-core, then 4 will be just fine.

Let's hope, cause I just ordered all the parts. :p

Lol … I had thought you bought a OEM X4 940 CPU, and I gave up on you. Then I guess you changed the link and bought the 620. Really, you should have just bought the 555 BE.

Whatever though man, enjoy the new computer.

I still think the i5 would have been better, it's not like it will be obsolete in 2 years, it's pretty top of the line (in a budget) right now..

From: Capricorn
Lol … I had thought you bought a OEM X4 940 CPU, and I gave up on you. Then I guess you changed the link and bought the 620. Really, you should have just bought the 555 BE.

Whatever though man, enjoy the new computer.

Thanks. :)

From: 3Garrett3
I still think the i5 would have been better, it's not like it will be obsolete in 2 years, it's pretty top of the line (in a budget) right now..

Is the i5 not the more expensive one?

The i5 is more expensive than the i3, as the i7 is more expensive than the i5.

From: 3Garrett3
The i5 is more expensive than the i3, as the i7 is more expensive than the i5.

Keep in mind that there are many version of the i7.
500USD, 1000USD, etc
4 core, 6 core.

From: noidea
Keep in mind that there are many version of the i7.
500USD, 1000USD, etc
4 core, 6 core.

Yes, but the i7 was out of the picture as an affordable option. :P

From: 3Garrett3
Yes, but the i7 was out of the picture as an affordable option. :P

Probably could have afforded the i7, BUT the thing is the i5 750 performs better than the i7 920 in gaming. So there was really never a point in buying a i7 920.

i3 530 = 120$
i5 750 = 200$
i7 920 = 300$