SRL Archive - MSI Archives

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Hey guys,

Since I've been working a lot lately, and a lot of my work is pretty repetitive and doesn't really require me to pay attention, I've had a lot of time to think about a lot of things. Naturally, MSI came to my mind.

I've had a lot of time to think about this one, and I honestly think it would be better for MSI as a whole if we ditched colour walking and went 100% reflection (like the original plan). Here's why:

• I'm sure I'm not the only one who would say that the colour part of the walking has been a pain in the ass so far, and since MSI is such a big project, it's only going to get worse.
• Do I think the hybrid walking system would be the most efficient way of walking? Yes, but let's be honest, scripting activity has increased dramatically since the release of the new reflection, and a lot of work has to be put in to making colour walking points using TPAs. I don't want to have only the SL's maintaining the colour walking because other members find it too complicated or too frustrating.
• Since the minimap colours are much more detailed, I feel that a project this large just won't work well enough to have colour walking incorporated. I know I'm just kind of repeating what I've already said in different ways, but I don't care. :p
• The hardest part of a colour script is the walking, by far, and we can't expect any requested scripts (VEM, yew cutter, Karamja fisher) that require a lot of walking to be added in a decent amount of time when the walking takes to long to write, and even longer to test and critique to perfection, all to have it break due to Jagex adding a building, or changing some colours.
• Yes, reflection hooks get outdated often, but now that we have reflection back up and running, it won't be long after an RS update that we have updated hooks. This is why I would still like to have the option to disable reflection. If the hooks are outdated and reflection is compiled, the script will execute. But if reflection is disabled, then the user can still use any non-walking scripts.
• Yes, Jagex could make another massive update that completely breaks reflection, but I honestly don't see that happening any time soon. That is a risk that I'm willing to take.
• Having the walking reflection-only, we can easily add in relocation features and player location checks using TBoxes, which I think would be a cool, accurate feature. All of this would of course be in {$IFDEF REFLECTION} defines to avoid compilation errors.

• From: 3Garrett3
  We understand the risk in using reflection. But the immense amount of scripting large walking scripts in custom TPA functions with RRW backup and other methods (Symbols, educated guesses) to back that up is a much larger con that grows exponentially for the amount of steps that have to be done in colour. Doing two steps is realistic with colour. Doing 20 isn't. Doing 20 with reflection is a possibility, which allows us to focus on other areas of scripting instead of the walking.

Thoughts?
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Sorry to put it so simply, after all of that thinking you did.

I agree.

Uh, no offence to the Members viewing, but is this section of the forums not suppose to be for SLs and PMs only?

There is no easy way to make color walking look clean after lots of it is added as well. Agree

From: Coh3n
Uh, no offence to the Members viewing, but is this section of the forums not suppose to be for SLs and PMs only?

Yes.. when did everyone get access to these boards?

I think its supposed to be Junior Member proof too, but I can see here too, and since this worked, I guess I can post too

From: 3Garrett3
Yes.. when did everyone get access to these boards?

Not sure, but I've already told RM.

Anyway, any non SL/PM that reads this, we'd still like your opinion. After all, you guys will be the ones writing for MSI (hopefully).

Uhm, http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57165 ?

My opinion is that if you decide to do it with reflection, there is many scripts that rely on walking. Ok, now reflection breaks, it takes few days to fix. Ok, now its working again, but what happens when it takes alot of time to fix and there isn't anyone around that knows how to do it, for like few months. With color, it won't break that easily, nor it is that hard to fix. But hey, thats just my opinion, and I know reflection can be good too.

From: Sabzi
Uhm, http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57165 ?

Yeah, but I didn't know the whole board was moved. Thought it was just the important threads…

From: Frement
My opinion is that if you decide to do it with reflection, there is many scripts that rely on walking. Ok, now reflection breaks, it takes few days to fix. Ok, now its working again, but what happens when it takes alot of time to fix and there isn't anyone around that knows how to do it, for like few months. With color, it won't break that easily, nor it is that hard to fix. But hey, thats just my opinion, and I know reflection can be good too.

No, it won't break that easily. The problem is the time it takes to write/test, not to mention the lack of people willing to write the code for walking. It's extremely frustrating, and never lasts a long time.

From: Sabzi
Uhm, http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57165 ?

That says the SL subjects are moved to public forums, not that the public is given access to these boards.

From: Frement
My opinion is that if you decide to do it with reflection, there is many scripts that rely on walking. Ok, now reflection breaks, it takes few days to fix. Ok, now its working again, but what happens when it takes alot of time to fix and there isn't anyone around that knows how to do it, for like few months. With color, it won't break that easily, nor it is that hard to fix. But hey, thats just my opinion, and I know reflection can be good too.

We understand the risk in using reflection. But the immense amount of scripting large walking scripts in custom TPA functions with RRW backup and other methods (Symbols, educated guesses) to back that up is a much larger con that grows exponentially for the amount of steps that have to be done in colour. Doing two steps is realistic with colour. Doing 20 isn't. Doing 20 with reflection is a possibility, which allows us to focus on other areas of scripting instead of the walking.

From: 3Garrett3
We understand the risk in using reflection. But the immense amount of scripting large walking scripts in custom TPA functions with RRW backup and other methods (Symbols, educated guesses) to back that up is a much larger con that grows exponentially for the amount of steps that have to be done in colour. Doing two steps is realistic with colour. Doing 20 isn't. Doing 20 with reflection is a possibility, which allows us to focus on other areas of scripting instead of the walking.

Well put, I'm going to add that to the first post.

From: Coh3n
Well put, I'm going to add that to the first post.

Hahah, I would have worded it better if I had known

Hey guys. Just got back. Don't know what happened yet and why the forums were visible. Either way, it is fixed now.

Don't ditch color; Make sure there is a way to add color walking modules.

I can't disagree with using reflection walking - It's much more reliable now-a-days although there is always the chance it will break again.

For when that day comes, we will still need color walks [and that day will come].

Also, for anyone who just simply wishes to write a color walk, they have to have the possibility of doing so.

Just have MSI_PerformWalk returning debugging an error and setting the player to false, when there isn't a reflection or a color walk.

(Alternatives to setting the player to false -> changing activity and location)

~RM

I can see keeping the option for colour walking, but I would rather focus on the reflection side of it, and not have the script dependent on someone writing the colour walking paths. Have the script always use reflection walking, unless told otherwise.

From: Rasta Magician
Just have MSI_PerformWalk returning debugging an error and setting the player to false, when there isn't a reflection or a color walk.

I don't really know what you mean. What I get out of that is we have MSI_PerfomWalk set the current player to false if there is neither a colour or reflection point, which doesn't really make sense. Why would the script have neither, unless it's a script that doesn't require walking.

From: Coh3n
I can see keeping the option for colour walking, but I would rather focus on the reflection side of it, and not have the script dependent on someone writing the colour walking paths. Have the script always use reflection walking, unless told otherwise.


I don't really know what you mean. What I get out of that is we have MSI_PerfomWalk set the current player to false if there is neither a colour or reflection point, which doesn't really make sense. Why would the script have neither, unless it's a script that doesn't require walking.

if (Reflection = Broken) and not ColorWalk then
  SwitchPlayerActivity;

Not that we have a system for the player to switch activities atm. (Maybe I'll look into how to make that)

~RM

Okay so it would use a colour point if it exists. That would be good for short scripts (i.e. Draynor woodcutter/banker), where colour paths could easily be made. Like Garrett said, a 20 point colour path isn't very realistic.