SRL Archive - Senior News and General

Times have changed, ranks have changed. SRL Member is not the same anymore, SRL Junior member is not the same anymore.

What should be require from SRL Member applicants today?
See: http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57045
If those scripts are good enough to get in SRL Members, then the requirements have lowered dramatically in the past 6 months.
I personally reckon that SRL Member should be good enough a scripter to be capable of writing functions for MSI. I'm not saying they should actually do that, but they should have the skill, that's just to sort of measure the level I'm trying to suggest here.

I think that scripts and scripters need to contain DTM/Bitmaps/DDTMs, TPAs/ATPAs, Radial Walking/TPA Walking, AntiBan/AntiRandoms, MultiPlayer, FailSafes, CTS2, good standards, good attitude, cases and arrays, and other basics, or at least most of those.

The script needs to have a certain complexity, not just something simple. It should also have taken a decent amount of time to code and be atleast 500 lines long.

I think that we are being too lenient on Junior Members these days. So far, aran armath has more yes than no votes, yet he has a simple, little script.

That is what I think.

This is a good thread to read too:
http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44555

I dislike the use of FindObj; However I disagree that whoever is SRL Member+ should be able to write functions for MSI. MSI is quite complex as a script / include.

~RM

Standards are getting easier over time, really? http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10547

All I see is them staying roughly equal until one of these threads pops up, then slowly get easier until another one of these pops up. It's not an elite super secret epic rank which gets free candy and money and shit that has limited places, its just a bonus for being active and contributing/learning, to facilitate more learning and contributing - and if someone has brains and is doing at least one of these things they should be in.

For example: If I had of not gotten in on my first try, and people had of said "No work harder script moar rararar" who knows if I would have - maybe something else would of come up in the process and I might of just gone to leech a java bot. Instead I got in, was motivated to learn more and become a better member, and now look

From: The Claw
… and now look

You still suck!

But, I do agree with what you said.

I do think that app in particular needs a bit of work though..

Ok, so SRL Membership is given to those capable of writing decent/working scripts and who are active. That's ok.
I just needed to know, because when I first applied it was more like a special rank for the bit more advanced. I applied with a woodcutter and burner which wasn't very easy to do as a first script, and got denied.

But that's good to know now. SRL Membership does not mean you're a good scripter.

BUMP

Ok, added a poll. After this is clear, we should let other members know the results too because many people don't know what they should expect. Some (like me) still remember those TPA, DTM, Antiban checklist-systems we used.

Well, I reckon they need some scripting experience…just not the experience to lead SRL with :p

• Standards
An Illegible piece of work is a bad piece of work.
• Awareness of the include
Someone who does not know what functions he could have used clearly still has a lot of learning to do. There is no need to understand how it is done, but knowing that it exists is minimal knowledge. (In refference only to SRL functions)
• Knowledge beyond the include
WizzyPlugin, DDTMs, other Programing Languages, .. Meaning that if the script has no more fine tuning than what the include offers then no knowledge beyond the include is shown.
• Community Presence
Is this someone who has published scripts before, or are they applying with their first script? Is this someone who you see regularly helping out? Is this someone enthusiastic ? Is this someone who provides feedback? OpenSource or NoSauce? Has this person ever attempted to teach someone something? (Tuts, explaining what is wrong rather than just fixing, .. )
• Willingness to learn
Those more willing to learn are more likely to keep on scripting, improving, and even if the script seems a bit poorer you can be fairly certain the person will learn to the level you would consider 'minimum'

Just a little something out of the top of my head..

edit:
Heh.. you could actually ask people to grade the applicant under these headers, then add up the score and if it is above an average of x, then the person is accepted. You could even have different ranks having a *x to their score; This would most likely include all those with the 'judge hammer'.

eg
Standards: (10 / 20)
Include Awareness: (15/25)
KBI: (10 / 25)
Community: (14/20)
Willing: (7 / 10)



~RM

Poll is kinda odd, should have made it multi-choice (like the square boxes, if that is even possible).

Anyways, if we DO make any huge changes to what we accept, there are already 100s of people who got in without being good enough based on the last standards and well pretty much have to 'reset' all SRL members, which is a bit crazy.

I, along with many other people, do agree though that the standards for SRL member has fallen, but overall I believe that it's fine how it is, and the people who vote are quite rigorous and fair in how they vote.

Hell, lots of SSRL members don't even script and get in.

But bla ya, tl;dr its fine how it is, people vote/judge applicants fairly.

From: YoHoJo
Poll is kinda odd, should have made it multi-choice (like the square boxes, if that is even possible).

Anyways, if we DO make any huge changes to what we accept, there are already 100s of people who got in without being good enough based on the last standards and well pretty much have to 'reset' all SRL members, which is a bit crazy.

I, along with many other people, do agree though that the standards for SRL member has fallen, but overall I believe that it's fine how it is, and the people who vote are quite rigorous and fair in how they vote.

Hell, lots of SSRL members don't even script and get in.

But bla ya, tl;dr its fine how it is, people vote/judge applicants fairly.

What is done is done - we're not going to reset all SRL members. There's a million people who have made their due contributions and have earned themselves the right to be an SRL Member, and it would be completly unfair to remove their well earnt dues.

~RM

Yeah, I know RM, I'm against that idea also.

From: YoHoJo
Poll is kinda odd, should have made it multi-choice (like the square boxes, if that is even possible).

The options I put are not meant to be like a list of things we require (DDTM, TPA) but to represent certain level of skill. I considered making a square poll but I thought that's bit too precise

So now the votes are 25%/25%/25% for the three first options. We need more people to vote… I think we really need to set a bar now. There's too much difference in what people require.

And I like RM's idea :)

You can't judge a script by the techniques it uses.. It's stupid to say that a blind click will not be as good as a DDTM or that a single FindColor is worse than a function that uses arrays. You can't say a script is good because it uses DDTM walking.

Different scripts require different solutions. If the scripter knows what he's doing, he should become SRL member. Community Presence and Willingness to learn are the most imported features of an SRL member. That's what separates them from the leechers.

From: The Claw

For example: If I had of not gotten in on my first try, and people had of said "No work harder script moar rararar" who knows if I would have - maybe something else would of come up in the process and I might of just gone to leech a java bot. Instead I got in, was motivated to learn more and become a better member, and now look

Yes, that's exactly why we shouldn't "raise" the requirements.

marpis, arman has been here for 3 years and has around 500 posts. He's trying to contribute by scripting and it looks like he's willing to learn too. That sounds like a good attitude to me and I think he would make a good SRL member. Not everyone has to be pro the moment they gain Member status. If someone really is a pro, he(/she) will get auto-memberized.

From: nielsie95
You can't judge a script by the techniques it uses.. It's stupid to say that a blind click will not be as good as a DDTM or that a single FindColor is worse than a function that uses arrays. You can't say a script is good because it uses DDTM walking.

Different scripts require different solutions. If the scripter knows what he's doing, he should become SRL member. Community Presence and Willingness to learn are the most imported features of an SRL member. That's what separates them from the leechers.

Yea but again, I didn't mean to make a list of coding techniques that are required but to give an example of the skill levels. Advanced, Basic, and Beginner just don't tell much.

And I didn't notice aran armath was a senior since he was/still is missing his cup. Changed my vote to a Yes there, everyone who has hanged around for 3 years and has nice attitude deserves SRL Member title, good scripter or not.

TPA or not doesn't say anything about the level of the script. Some people think TPA's are the best, but a good scripter knows when to use a different (simpler) technique. Fawki for example doesn't use TPA's often, but his scripts still work very good. To me, a scripter who uses a findbitmap/findcolor to navigate around the map is better than someone who uses DDTM's (if both ways do the job that is). Keep It Simple, Stupid!

From: nielsie95
TPA or not doesn't say anything about the level of the script. Some people think TPA's are the best, but a good scripter knows when to use a different (simpler) technique. Fawki for example doesn't use TPA's often, but his scripts still work very good. To me, a scripter who uses a findbitmap/findcolor to navigate around the map is better than someone who uses DDTM's (if both ways do the job that is). Keep It Simple, Stupid!

Mehh, you still know what I meant :rolleyes:

Not really. :p

Good scripts can be "simple" and bad scripts can be "advanced", so you shouldn't look at that specifically when judging an applicant.

Bump… ? I also remembering fawki having some plans for applications. Let me just check where he posted it.

Edit: Found the post, unrelated to standards.

~RM

Omg, 4 people have voted and all in different options.
We clearly don't have a common understanding of who we should promote to SRL Members.

I think the post I made would finally give everyone a framework to judge which would properly include attitude and so on, unlike the scripting check lists people make right now..

~RM

I like that list, mainly since 75% of the criteria is effort.

However, if the scale is objective then why would we have a voting system at all?

From: Town
I like that list, mainly since 75% of the criteria is effort.

However, if the scale is objective then why would we have a voting system at all?

Someone would say that the applicant's Include awareness seems to be 5, while someone else may think that it's 15.

I'd like to keep this discussion here for now..

I don't think we should go by a framework. It might be useful for some people, but it is also good to form your own opinion. If everyone is just going to fill out this form, how will it help the applicant? It might be good as a tool, but we definitely shouldn't go by it.

If you're rating scripting standards, include awareness and knowledge beyond the include, you'll eventually run into the same problems we have now when "rating" scripts. What standards are worth 10 points? If you use a formatter, will that automatically give people a higher change of getting into members? And what about DDTMs? That's knowledge beyond the include, but is a DDTM worth 1 point and a DDTM with custom tolerance and autocolor worth 3 points? It's all subjective.

I see a lot of people saying things like "I got in with less, so yes from me". Wont this happen with subjective ratings too (like the ones above)? "I got 20 points for using a DDTM, so I give you 20 points".

Community presence and willingness to learn should be important when forming an opinion and maybe some members (and developers) need a little briefing in on that, but I believe you will still run into the same subjectivity problems with a framework.

You're basically saying it yourself. "Someone would say a script is decent enough to be members, while others do not".

From: marpis
Someone would say that the applicant's Include awareness seems to be 5, while someone else may think that it's 15.

I think we're doing fine this way. :)

Well, there will always be subjectiveness.

And people can, of course, expand on the form.
The main positive point I saw about the form was the fact that it took into account things besides the script.

We can always have the framework, without the grading. At least that would get people to consider all(/more) sides of an application.

~RM

That would be a better idea, yes :) An other option could be that everyone posts their pro's and cons when it's not obvious (for others).

Something that comes down to the same thing is that people try to convince each other (pretty much like it happens now). For example like what happened with Marpis, after reading other opinions he adjusted his statement.

I think we're fine as we're doing now and if people disagree then they should try and "fix" that inside appliances by convincing others that this appliance is not up to their standard. A tool like the framework could be useful, but we should avoid people voting strictly by walking through a list. So no "boxes" for scripts (unlike the current poll) with things like "DDTM + TPA = good". That might be a bit of an extreme example, but I hope you understand what I'm saying :)

From: Rasta Magician

• Standards
An Illegible piece of work is a bad piece of work.
• Awareness of the include
Someone who does not know what functions he could have used clearly still has a lot of learning to do. There is no need to understand how it is done, but knowing that it exists is minimal knowledge. (In refference only to SRL functions)
• Knowledge beyond the include
WizzyPlugin, DDTMs, other Programing Languages, .. Meaning that if the script has no more fine tuning than what the include offers then no knowledge beyond the include is shown.
• Community Presence
Is this someone who has published scripts before, or are they applying with their first script? Is this someone who you see regularly helping out? Is this someone enthusiastic ? Is this someone who provides feedback? OpenSource or NoSauce? Has this person ever attempted to teach someone something? (Tuts, explaining what is wrong rather than just fixing, .. )
• Willingness to learn
Those more willing to learn are more likely to keep on scripting, improving, and even if the script seems a bit poorer you can be fairly certain the person will learn to the level you would consider 'minimum'

Just a little something out of the top of my head..

~RM

Without any grading or such, does anyone disagree this is what we should look for in future SRL members? Because the way it's been done so far is pretty much 'learn from the others' and then every now and then Wizz/Fawk would make a post saying we are being too harsh.

If we actually posted this (if agreed on) everyone would have a reference point to know how to vote.

~RM

I think we should make the voters (Current SRL-Members) aware of what to look for. I think a framework would be too "tight".
I agree with Nielsie and The Claw (I think it was), saying that the bars for SRL-applications should stay where they are now. The majority we take in, have the ability to script pretty decently, and it ends up like this:
1) Either the applicant has a very, very good script and will get acknowledged by the SRL-Members. No motivation like this exists, and it will most likely keep the person scripting for a good while.
2) The participant has a decent script, but has a good attitude towards helping and learning. Again, the sheer motivation from entering SRL-Members should carry this person forward in their SRL-Career.

SRL is constantly moving towards making the jump from newcomer to scripter easier, but if we simultaneously raise the bar for SRL-Members, they will never make the jump from decent scripter to good scripter. And that would seriously hurt the community.

-Knives

From: Rasta Magician
Without any grading or such, does anyone disagree this is what we should look for in future SRL members? Because the way it's been done so far is pretty much 'learn from the others' and then every now and then Wizz/Fawk would make a post saying we are being too harsh.

If we actually posted this (if agreed on) everyone would have a reference point to know how to vote.

~RM

I agree with this.

From: King of Knives

SRL is constantly moving towards making the jump from newcomer to scripter easier, but if we simultaneously raise the bar for SRL-Members, they will never make the jump from decent scripter to good scripter. And that would seriously hurt the community.

-Knives

SRL Members should be a respectable, knowledgeable group that represent the community in a positive way. Making beginners aim for higher standards to gain SRL Membership will ensure that the status of Members remains at a respectable level.

I'm not saying you should be able to write an amazing script just to gain members, but I think you should know enough to be able to create a fully functioning script that can run for at least a couple hours.

Personality does play a big role though. If your an intelligent person who knows his way around the include, and maybe knows a couple other programming languages, and contributes in a positive way, then I would most likely vote yes.

I seem to remember WT-Fakawi talking about a time when they accepted anyone who has the ability to script into members?

Personally I think it's the voters preference, if they think that the standards should be really high, then they should vote accordingly. If they think only a small amount of scripting ability is needed, then the same story

From: Richard
I seem to remember WT-Fakawi talking about a time when they accepted anyone who has the ability to script into members?

Personally I think it's the voters preference, if they think that the standards should be really high, then they should vote accordingly. If they think only a small amount of scripting ability is needed, then the same story

Haven't seen you in a while. Welcome back :)

~RM

From: Rasta Magician
Haven't seen you in a while. Welcome back :)

~RM

Mhmm, has been a while. Thank you :)

So what's the verdict on these member apps?