SRL Archive - Discussions & Debates

ABU DHABI // An 18-year-old Emirati woman has been charged with having sex outside of wedlock after reporting that she was raped by six men, Abu Dhabi’s Criminal Court was told yesterday.

The men, only two of whom were in court yesterday, are charged with raping LH in the back seat of one of the defendant’s vehicles. Both men pleaded not guilty, while L H, who has been taken into custody, also pleaded not guilty to the charges against her.

The woman and one of her male Emirati friends, HA, went for a drive in his vehicle on May 2, prosecutors said. The charges allege that because she had agreed to be in the car, the two had, therefore, met to have sex. According to court records, HA, 19, called five of his friends – four Emiratis and one Iraqi – and invited them to join him.

Prosecutors said that after HA and the woman had sex in an unknown location in Abu Dhabi, the five men met up with them. At that point, the charges say, the men all raped her in HA’s car.

The woman later contacted police and said she had been raped by six men, including HA. It is not known when she reported the attack.

The Abu Dhabi Judicial Department Forensic Unit declined to discuss whether the woman had been examined after the incident for evidence of rape.

HA has been charged with rape. The only other defendant in court, an Emirati with the same initials, was also charged with rape. The other four men are being tried in their absence.[INDENT]The woman has been in custody since she reported the incident. She and the two defendants in court yesterday are being held without bail.[/INDENT]

Chief Justice Saeed Abdul Basser twice asked her: “Did you have sex with these men?”

“No,” she replied.

It was unclear whether the judge was referring to consensual sex or rape.

The woman was not represented by a lawyer and no members of her family were in court yesterday.

All of the defendants are older than 18 and are being tried as adults.

It's really sad actually, women over there get stoned to death for adultery if they get raped.

Islam is peace.

Source: http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100518/NATIONAL/705179850/1010

This is typical though, in Islam it takes the testimony of 3 women to exceed that of a man. If 2 women testify against a man he gets off if he denies it. Women are seen are emotional and unstable, nothing more then chattel.

But other then that it is the religion is peace and it does a lot of good things in the world, for example if the Palestinians were not Muslims, they would just go around killing people, blowing stuff up and many other terrible things. After all, you have no moral standard unless you're religious.

From: Yakman
After all, you have no moral standard unless you're religious.

http://trololololololololololo.com/

Islam is a peaceful religion, just that few rights are given to women. I guess they fear women will abuse power since they have little control over themselves. Just my two cents…

^ Not from what history says. The original reasons for women to be fully clothed and not to be touched was actually because they had people fighting over women, and didn't want that to happen, so women were off limits. I assume the same goes for rights (if women had more rights, then men might do stupid things to bribe them etc.).

From: i luffs yeww
^ Not from what history says. The original reasons for women to be fully clothed and not to be touched was actually because they had people fighting over women, and didn't want that to happen, so women were off limits. I assume the same goes for rights (if women had more rights, then men might do stupid things to bribe them etc.).

god do you even know what youre saying?

From: blackelvis
god do you even know what youre saying?

his argument is valid. its also what i learned in history class

well i agree with the first part i guess but idk about the second part about rights? that sounds totally unfounded to me evil women corrupting and seducing men?

I never said anything about women doing anything. :/ You seem to just disagree with me because you're not fond of me.

From: i luffs yeww
^ Not from what history says. The original reasons for women to be fully clothed and not to be touched was actually because they had people fighting over women, and didn't want that to happen, so women were off limits. I assume the same goes for rights (if women had more rights, then men might do stupid things to bribe them etc.).

In Islam the reason we cover up females is to so they can be protected. Not to be fought over. (Infact before Islam was revealed to the Arabs, the Arabs used to bury there daughters alive.)This is a different thinking than here in the U.S, were once a girl is 15 she loses her virginity.

[QUOTE=Dan's The Man;713322]It's really sad actually, women over there get stoned to death for adultery if they get raped.

Islam is peace.

Source: http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100518/NATIONAL/705179850/1010

The Arab/Islam world is full of corruption at the time being. Dont put Islam in what happens, as they dont get stoned unless they do adultery themselves without being raped.

Your hate towards Islam is so obvious (its becoming funny).
Same goes to Yakman.

Protected from what? Because I can see what both of us saying as synonymous.

And you saying that every 15 year old girl has sex isn't true or productive or anything. :/

From: kingarabian
The Arab/Islam world is full of corruption at the time being. Dont put Islam in what happens, as they dont get stoned unless they do adultery themselves without being raped.

Your hate towards Islam is so obvious (its becoming funny).
Same goes to Yakman.

And where do they base there laws from? The Qu'ran, the basis of Islam, of course.

[QUOTE=Dan's The Man;713752]And where do they base there laws from? The Qu'ran, the basis of Islam, of course.

Just proved the lack of knowledge you have in Islam.

Thats all based off the Sunna of the Prophet Mohammad (pbh). If a female or a male commits adultry while there married to another spouse then they both get stoned. If they are not married then get get whipped 40 times. A women does not get stoned to death if she gets raped unless she invited it and there is proof.

Every Muslim (yes including females) knows these rules. I really dont see the point of this thread.

Islam protects all Muslim women. It may not show due todays corruption. But if you go back to the orgin, you know the truth.

In America every 2 minutes a girl gets raped.

America has had atleast 1 million people trying out prostitutes

http://prostitution.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000095

So really your trying to use one rare thing that happens in the Muslim world, while the females in the western world are in a x50 worse condition.

Sucks this thread isnt in the BBQ pit :fiery:.

From: i luffs yeww
Protected from what? Because I can see what both of us saying as synonymous.

And you saying that every 15 year old girl has sex isn't true or productive or anything. :/

Protected from rape, and to keep there personalities correct, and to give them right. Not to have every girl walking on the streets checked out by every male who sees her.

If you compare a girl who is a muslim and is covered, compared to the regular 15 year old high school girl there is a big difference.

This has nothing to do with rape or prostitution (which is completely irrelevant..) so I don't see what you're trying to say? I think Dan was merely saying that it's stupid/bad/wrong/whatever that she got punished for being raped.

I'm not necessarily agreeing with him; I'm just clearing it up for you. :)

From: i luffs yeww
This has nothing to do with rape or prostitution (which is completely irrelevant..) so I don't see what you're trying to say? I think Dan was merely saying that it's stupid/bad/wrong/whatever that she got punished for being raped.

I'm not necessarily agreeing with him; I'm just clearing it up for you. :)

I think hes trying to make Islam bad, and say "look what Islam is doing to there own women" while in America its mucccccccch more worse. Thats what I was trying to show in my previous post.

The thing about prostitution is look at how many America prostitutes and look at how many Muslim prostitutes there are. ISLAM protects the lady.

From: i luffs yeww
This has nothing to do with rape or prostitution (which is completely irrelevant..) so I don't see what you're trying to say? I think Dan was merely saying that it's stupid/bad/wrong/whatever that she got punished for being raped.

I'm not necessarily agreeing with him; I'm just clearing it up for you. :)

kingarabian is right hes clearly making a difference between two groups of people. hes just denying problems of social injustice etc. in his own society and blaming someone else.
EG:

[QUOTE=Dan's The Man;713322]It's really sad actually, women over there get stoned to death for adultery if they get raped.]

[QUOTE=Dan's The Man;713752]And where do [B]they[/B] base there laws from? The Qu'ran, the basis of Islam, of course.


and as for you: i just think its really conceited to make an assumption like that without any firsthand knowledge.

Well.. no living person could have first hand knowledge of what happened thousands of years ago.. :/ I don't see why you're always so upset with me.

From: kingarabian
The Arab/Islam world is full of corruption at the time being. Dont put Islam in what happens, as they dont get stoned unless they do adultery themselves without being raped.

Wait, what… I intended not to post, but are you implying stonings still happen? I thought the civilized society left that vision a few hundred years ago….

From: Wizzup?
Wait, what… I intended not to post, but are you implying stonings still happen? I thought the civilized society left that vision a few hundred years ago….

http://hamptonroads.com/2009/07/lawsuit-now-accuses-xe-contractors-murder-kidnapping?cid=srch

A just-amended lawsuit alleges six additional instances of unprovoked attacks on Iraqi civilians by Blackwater contractors.

Three people, including a 9-year-old boy, are said to have died.

The Blackwater guards also shot the boy's mother in the back as she bent over trying to shield her 3-month-old daughter, who nevertheless was shot in the face, according to the lawsuit. The boy's father, uncle and cousin also were wounded.

The racketeering count added to the suit this week accuses Prince's companies of engaging in murder, weapons smuggling, money laundering, tax evasion, kidnapping, child prostitution, illegal drug use and destruction of evidence.

The child prostitution charge involves young Iraqi girls allegedly being brought to the Blackwater compound in Baghdad's fortified Green Zone, identified in the lawsuit as the "Blackwater Man Camp," to provide oral sex to contractors for $1.

civilized society is a joke

^ You point to Iraq as an example of civilised society? lol
Furthermore our society looks down on the people who did that, you can see that because they've been put in front of a judge and will have to answer for their actions. While in your culture, stoning women to death is not only allowed, but encouraged.


Wizzup you would be shocked and alarmed, many places in the world still use stoning and punishment.


People in this thread have already admitted that women in Islam have fewer rights then men.

kingarabian, in the west we give women the vote, they can have jobs, they can be single or married through their own choice and are not the property of their husband or father. Although we're not always perfect, we have feminists groups to remind us when we're failing our duty to treat women equally.

I've read reports of muslim men raping young girls before they're executed because the Quran forbids the murder of virgins. There are reports of a pregnant woman with cancer being refused treatment by her husband because the chemotherapy would destroy her embryo.

Why should it be up to the woman to cover herself to reduce the risk of rape? If she gets raped its not her shame, she has done nothing wrong. Rather, the man who raped her is the criminal, he is the one you should be going after instead of blaming the woman for wearing a short skirt or not wearing a burka.

Its interesting how you point to the number of people using prostitutes as though they are self-evidently bad. There are very good arguments for why prostitution is legal, they are just offering a service and harming no-one, yet you persecute them like common criminals.

links to photos taken in Saudi Arabia.
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee11/SDurro/womennotallowedsign-1.jpg
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee11/SDurro/ladiesnotallowed-1.jpg
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee11/SDurro/segregatedbank.jpg

Does this remind you of "No coloured people" signs in America and South Africa 40 years ago?

From: kingarabian
A women does not get stoned to death if she gets raped unless she invited it and there is proof.

So a women get raped, she accuses a man of raping her, the man cleans up well and pays another man to say that he was at home or some where else at the time of the rape. The police say there was no rape, the women gets stoned?

sounds pretty shitty to me.

Also: a women should choose when she looses her virginity. She should not be told by a religion, or any one/thing, when she looses it. You are not protecting women, mearly limiting them and allowing men to have more control.

again, sounds pretty shitty to me.

From: Yakman
^ You point to Iraq as an example of civilised society? lol

my point is people are fucked up all over. the middle east isn't really that special in mans inhumanity to man. why don't you open your eyes and take a look at your own society? just because a lot of western forms of oppression aren't as institutionalized or as visible doesn't mean they're not there. military-industrial complexes, liberal imperialism in the guise of democracy, women still dont get paid equal wages in the states if you weren't aware, a prison-industrial complex that is practically enslaving the lowest echelons of western society, oil dependency, dependency on cheap labor and inexpensive materials, unemployment, gay rights, racism, social asphyxia, our seeming obsession with wealth and power, what more do you want?

the founder of blackwater is one of the worlds richest men worth over 2.4 billion dollars while half the world lives on less than a dollar a day and innocent people are murdered and raped and ground into dust by the millstones of civilized society, forgotten by everything and God.

who are we to even decide what goes on there? Providence itself?

"Paying women less then men is exactly the same as stoning them to death for being raped, therefore yakman cant criticise us because his society does exactly the same thing."

Is this for real?

Saudi women don't worry about getting paid less because they don't get paid at all. We have feminist groups to tell us when women are getting paid less, your society hasn't even had its feminist uprising yet.

Just look at which way the immigration is going. People are voting with their feet and they prefer the west. Countless middle-eastern people come to west in search of a new life, we allow some of them to join and let them contribute to our society. We get slightly annoyed when they misunderstand secularism and a little cheesed off when they blow themselves up but all in all things seem to be moving along quite nicely.

thanks for picking the weakest point and then just not even giving a proportionate response to the rest.

From: noidea
So a women get raped, she accuses a man of raping her, the man cleans up well and pays another man to say that he was at home or some where else at the time of the rape. The police say there was no rape, the women gets stoned?

sounds pretty shitty to me.

Also: a women should choose when she looses her virginity. She should not be told by a religion, or any one/thing, when she looses it. You are not protecting women, mearly limiting them and allowing men to have more control.

again, sounds pretty shitty to me.

The women does not get stoned by herself BOTH the women and the man get stoned. A women gets stoned if she is found to have wanted to have sex with another male WHILE married to another man. Same with the male. And it does not happen 1-2-3. There are alot of things that are looked at before anything stoning is finalized, and 80% of the time the people that committed adultery are pardoned.

Also: In Islam there is no specific law that says when must a girl looses her virginity. In Islam there is now law that says all women must lose there virginity. In Islam when a girl gets married she writes her own contract on what she wants and what her husband can do to her and not do etc. The soon to be husband has to sign it or else the marriage is off.

This whole thing that happened is:

1. True, but really rare, but yes it does happen in the corrupted middle east today.

2. Probably fake, and propaganda to make Islam look bad, which is not new. Check out the Cnn vault there are alot more articles like this

King and Black, can I ask you to tell me which religions Islam is more peaceful than?

(Excluding Indonesian Cannibals)

^ King will say all and that it is nothing like any other religion.

c0rrupt, all "main stream" religions are peacefull(christianity, islam, judiasm, ect), its just the extreamists who take it out of hand, and make the huge majority look bad. if you do ANY research about the religion, you would know that, instead of making a fool out of yourself

^ I think he was more asking them if it's more peaceful than other religions, not if other religions are peaceful or not.

From: i luffs yeww
^ I think he was more asking them if it's more peaceful than other religions, not if other religions are peaceful or not.

the point (sort of :p) still gets across, :) id honestly say that islam is the same as christianity as far as peacefull goes, if not more

I'd say that most religions are peaceful. But I would like to point out that it's not only extremists who do malevolent things. You could be a perfectly normal practicer of Christianity (going to church, following the commandments and what not), and still not be peaceful.

From: i luffs yeww
I'd say that most religions are peaceful. But I would like to point out that it's not only extremists who do malevolent things. You could be a perfectly normal practicer of Christianity (going to church, following the commandments and what not), and still not be peaceful.

you as an individual can be violent, but we are talking as a whole religion, including it's teachings and beliefs

From: c0rrupt f1r3
King and Black, can I ask you to tell me which religions Islam is more peaceful than?

(Excluding Indonesian Cannibals)

^ What Luffs yew and Akwardsaw said.

Im just here to back my religion. All over the news Islam is given a bad name due to the jealousy. But if you read history about the Christians and the crusades and what they did to the jews, its a different story.

I know all religions are peaceful if people followed there religion 100%. It does not matter if what they are worshiping is right or not. But its really hard now days.

From: blackelvis
thanks for picking the weakest point and then just not even giving a proportionate response to the rest.

well done for spectacularly missing the point.

and kingarabian, jealously? you must be joking.

King, I respect you for liking your faith, and practicing it… And I'm assuming you're no extremist, cause then you'd be a hypocrite :D I'm not sticking up for Christianity… But I think you just have to respect them. Everyone only exploits their political and social follies, and ignores their good nature. From that perspective, I can see where you're coming from. Course, I think it's stupid I'm forced to go to church… I'd rather just believe I can go to a "place beyond the earth" without practicing anything, but just being a good person.

King, you have said that there are people that are extremists and others that say they are Muslim, but don't really practice it, thus being "fake" in their religion. You have tried to separate this group by using the words "the corrupted middle east" (last post, first page).
Do you really think that Islam is the only religion that has corruption? You are trying to bash Christianity based upon corruption that occurred within the religion years ago. You share the same rage towards this corruption that I do. You understand how sickening it is when a person goes out and kills people, saying it is in the name of your God, when in reality, they know nothing about your God. This corruption is shared by all religions, and the bigger the religion, the more corruption will be there.


Also, all I hear you doing is trying to compare your religion to other things: like a 15 year old girl that decides to give up her virginity. You are trying to elevate Islam by comparing it to things that you deem "bad." Not everyone here shares the same values as you, so this method of persuasion is not really effective.

From: Yakman
well done for spectacularly missing the point.

and kingarabian, jealously? you must be joking.

alright. why do you think, religious dogma and corruption aside, which are prevalent on both sides, that people are leaving are leaving that area of the world, then?

^ American media portrays things as very glamorous. And sure, people are happy here. They're blinded, though. So it's up to you to decide if being ignorant and happy is better than being intelligent and depressed.

Also, c0rrupt, you should read Why I Am Not A Christian by Bertrand Russell. :)

From: i luffs yeww
So it's up to you to decide if being ignorant and happy is better than being intelligent and depressed.

It is not impossible to be both intelligent and happy…

From: x[Warrior]x3500
King, you have said that there are people that are extremists and others that say they are Muslim, but don't really practice it, thus being "fake" in their religion. You have tried to separate this group by using the words "the corrupted middle east" (last post, first page).
Do you really think that Islam is the only religion that has corruption? You are trying to bash Christianity based upon corruption that occurred within the religion years ago. You share the same rage towards this corruption that I do. You understand how sickening it is when a person goes out and kills people, saying it is in the name of your God, when in reality, they know nothing about your God. This corruption is shared by all religions, and the bigger the religion, the more corruption will be there.


Also, all I hear you doing is trying to compare your religion to other things: like a 15 year old girl that decides to give up her virginity. You are trying to elevate Islam by comparing it to things that you deem "bad." Not everyone here shares the same values as you, so this method of persuasion is not really effective.

Brah look at it this way:

America bash's Islam whenever it can. But you are a christian and you know what the christians did to the Jews. That big crusade against the arabs, and how they would kill any scientist who talked about astronomy.

I did not say Islam is corrupted. (sorry if I did) I said the middle east is corrupted, and is led by corrupted leaders (which Israel and America placed).

From: i luffs yeww
^ American media portrays things as very glamorous. And sure, people are happy here. They're blinded, though. So it's up to you to decide if being ignorant and happy is better than being intelligent and depressed.

Also, c0rrupt, you should read Why I Am Not A Christian by Bertrand Russell. :)

I'll look in to it… Sounds like it could help me make heads or tails of my disposition…

King, I hope you should know… In my school, I don't know one person who practices Islam. In our Social Studies, World Cultures, and Cultural Diversity classes, we are required to learn of Islam. Don't say that stuff is biased, cause it's just facts… ex. The Five Pillars and Ramadan. We went over the subject of Islam uninterrupted for 3 different years. In my Cultural Diversity now, we went over Christianity. We got about 2 sections in when about 3 complaints were made. We learned materials that stated things that Christians practice ex. Lent for Catholics and the significance of Easter and Christmas. I don't know if you can say we in America disregard every aspect of Islam.

From: i luffs yeww
^ American media portrays things as very glamorous. And sure, people are happy here. They're blinded, though. So it's up to you to decide if being ignorant and happy is better than being intelligent and depressed.

Also, c0rrupt, you should read Why I Am Not A Christian by Bertrand Russell. :)

what would you concider intelligent? as in knowing lots of facts about every thing,or being truely enlightened about the world(much as dan brown writes about in his Robert Langdon novels, or what buddism strives for)

I deem intelligence as understanding and knowing how/why things work. Not any stupid spiritual shit (no offense), but actual knowledge and understanding.

And I completely agree with bullzeye that one cannot be both intelligent and happy.

kingarabian: how do you know what Islamic world looks like today? You live in Hawaii.. very, very disconnected, physically, from other parts of the world. iirc you said you went to Saudi Arabia once a year or every so often, but for how long. How can you view all of Saudi Arabia in your short visit? (yes, staying for 2 weeks is short in comparison to the time you live your life in Hawaii)

From: i luffs yeww
And I completely agree with bullzeye that one cannot be both intelligent and happy.

I said that it is not impossible to be both intelligent and happy. I consider myself happy (I have no worries/stress, great friends and family, etc.) as well as reasonably intelligent (I usually make the best grades in school, learn fast, and can figure things out very easily). However, I do think that it is a rare combination, mostly because there are (in my opinion) very few intelligent people in the world.

^ Oops. Well then I disagree with you. :p

What if Islam is simply correlated to all this violence, and not actually the cause? Has anyone considered that? If you were to redo history and make all of these nations ruled by shari'a Christian, would these things still occur? Just because a government uses faith as a tool to control does not mean if you take the faith away they will stop trying to control the people.

In the U.S. many people associate blacks with certain tendencies, ways of life etc., when in reality it is more an economic/societal problem than a racial one. Obviously that problem stems from governmental racism, but it is quite obvious that the traits/characteristics associated with blacks are not inherent with race.

By saying Islam is at fault you imply that the majority of Muslims will be inherently violent because of their faith. Perhaps it is just coincidence (or how history has played itself out) that their faith is shared among people who are violent for other reasons. Just because violent people are Muslim does not mean Muslims are violent.

I don't think the problem is Islam. I think the problem is the leaders who claim to preach the word of God. If the people who then listen to those leaders don't know any better than to believe them, then whose fault is that? The people don't know any better! It is the system's responsibility to educate and take care of the people. But when the people running the system are concerned with power and their own well-being, that simply doesn't happen. Eventually the argument becomes cyclical because one could argue that it is then the people's responsibility to revolt etc. etc., but the point I wanted to reiterate was people are the problem, not faith.

From: bullzeye95
However, I do think that it is a rare combination, mostly because there are (in my opinion) very few intelligent people in the world.

And because many intelligent people are aware of how much there is to not be happy about, and then have a hard time focusing on the things that make them happy :p

From: i luffs yeww
I deem intelligence as understanding and knowing how/why things work. Not any stupid spiritual shit (no offense), but actual knowledge and understanding.

And I completely agree with bullzeye that one cannot be both intelligent and happy.

Hah. Once you realise the spiritual, you will be happy. It's the missing piece of the puzzle, and modern religions are doing it wrong because technology has progressed while they haven't, choosing to play "catch up" instead.

Of course you can be happy and intelligent, its all just a matter of perspective. :)

From: kingarabian
Brah look at it this way:

America bash's Islam whenever it can. But you are a christian and you know what the christians did to the Jews. That big crusade against the arabs, and how they would kill any scientist who talked about astronomy.

I did not say Islam is corrupted. (sorry if I did) I said the middle east is corrupted, and is led by corrupted leaders (which Israel and America placed).

OK, I will pull the same card as you did. All those things happened because Europe was corrupted.