SRL Archive - News and General

SRL Judges Panel


Sir R. M8gic1an

2010-05-19 09:50:42

Too long, Didn't read: A plan to ensure the prosperity and continuity of SRL Competitions.

As many of you will know, I'm doing a management course. And in that management course, one of the things that was said was the following "People will be happier to agree to an idea if they know exactly what that idea is." - So I'll be letting you know what is on my mind.
[INDENT]
Background
SRL used to have scripting competitions. This was started by Sb100, he ran a few competitions, and then several people tried to pick it back up but never quite at the level Starblaster did. The day he left we lost a great person in our community.

The Aim
My aim is to have these competitions restarted. And not have them falter again, whenever I happen to leave. "True leadership raises other leaders to follow your steps."

The Why
Competitions are great for honing your skills, learning from other people and great to get scripts out. This obviously also increases activity, as a Domino. Scripter -> Script -> Testers -> Updates -> New users -> New scripts.

The How
This is where it becomes interesting.
[/INDENT]


JM Competitions
[INDENT]
Background
This was an idea that I saw a long time ago. Then as SSRL I felt I had authority enough to run one and started it up. When I got to admin the judging was finished. This obviously wasn't efficient.

The Aim
To give JMs yet another reason to script. Learn. Improve. Strive.


The Prizes
SRL Membership. Competition Winner Cup.


The How
This is where it gets interesting.

[/INDENT]

SRL Competitions
[INDENT]
Background
Back when it was Starblaster running this, these competitions would be open to all. This time around, I'm sorry to say it, but devs might be excluded - I still have to find a propper way around for this.

The Aim
To get SRL Members scripting at their best. This will make it easier to see who has Dev, Master or Scripter potential, allowing people to grow through the ranks more easily.

The Why
The amount of learning by itself is reason enough for the why.

The How
This is where things really do get interesting.

[/Indent]

MSI Competitions
[INDENT]
Background
This has been attempted before. Nothing too notable was achieved by it, except a lot of enthusiasm that faded.

The Aim
To get people scripting in groups. This will give them a feel of what it is to work as a Dev, what is essential for group team scripting, such as standards, plans, communication and it will also give a deeper view into how it would be to work for an open-source team.

The Why
Team Productivity = Members' Productivity * Synergy / Process Losses
Teams can achieve a lot more than a single person. That is why SRL has survived all these years. In teams people can do great things.

The How
This is the really interesting part.
[/INDENT]


The How - This is the really interesting part
[INDENT]
The Judging
All Judging will be done by SRL Members +
Judges will grade harder competitions depending on how they performed the previous time.

The Judges Panel
This is where innovation really comes in. I believe this will be the key to success. There will be a judges panel. What will this mean?
The panel will have a hierarchy to it. From bottom to top:
  1. JM Judges - These will be the people judging JM Competitions. As JMs are usually less-able scripters than SRL Members, the newer members should be just fine to judge these. This will be a rank as much about learning to judge as for those who do not feel confident enough to judge fellow members. There will of course be some highly-able scripters also judging these competitions, to ensure fairness and that nothing is missed out.
  2. SRL Judges - These will be the people judging SRL Member competitions. This will require a higher level of skill as well as amount of work that is put into the judging, to notice the subtletie's each scripter is bound to have. These competitions will be judged by members of all levels to ensure fairness.
  3. MSI Competition Judges - These will have a lot of work, considering the scripts are likely to be bigger in range or depth of skills. These will not solemnly be MSI SLs, but also anyone who knows the MSI Include well enough and has a good scripting ability. These competitions, due to their team nature, will most likely be the ones that will take a greater effort to judge.
  4. The Table - These are those who will be in charge. The Table will be resposible for setting up the competitions, dealing with the judges, assigning judges, promoting judges and so on. Members of the table will be those who ensure the competitions are kept running. This will NOT be restricted by forums rank. Show you deserve it and you'll get it.

[INDENT]
How the Ranks will work
Top 20% go up, Bottom 10% go down, remaining 70% stay as they are.
Meaning:
  • Judges who did not perform well will go down a rank or leave the the panel completly.
  • Judges who performed best will go up a rank.
  • Any new appliers will always be given a slot, wherever The Table believes they would be best placed.
  • NONE will be promoted directly to The Table.


The 20% judges who put most work in (quantity&quality) get moved up to grading more complicated competitions, as they've shown themselves capable of doing such things.

10% down is just to avoid people who just want to be part of the panel for the "coolness" of it



Why?
This ensures the best of the best make it to the top. As simple as that. Work hard for something and you'll get it. If only life was always this easy.
[/INDENT]


The Marking System
This is somewhat necessary to ensure fairness. How will it be done? The Panel will plan how they would go about creating a script, keeping a certain skill bar in mind. (Scripters Cup for JMs, Dev / Masters for SRL, MSI SL for MSI) Once having assessed the best methods to use, they will then consider alternatives. Once this is done they will assign a score to each, generating somewhat of a 'generic answer'. This will be done at the same time as the competitors are writting their scripts.
[ If anyone is actually a teacher, some further insight into the usual way of marking exams would be appreciated ]


Marking - First Steps
Scripts will be posted in the appropriate places, with any refferences to authors removed. Judges will then post their assesments, without actually posting their grade. The grades will be submitted to the panel - This is to ensure no one loses their files, as has happened before. Once everyone has posted their comments, judges can choose to re-assess the grades they gave (and then send them again to the panel).

Marking - Weighting
There will always be harsh and lenient judges. This was overcome last time by weighting. Each Judge's score is multiplied by a weight over all the scripts, just for it not to be too drastic. This does not affect the overall effect on the judging as it will applied to all scripts. This is to overcome the cases where "One person may find all scripts great, while another will find them all to be crap." - The weight applied to each judge will be set according to somewhat of an average of the expectation of the script, by a member of The Table. One single member of the table will decide on weights for each judge in one of the competitions, to ensure equal standards.

Wrapping up the competition
This will be done by a member of The Table. Basically includes gathering the comments and grades, making a thread with the results and appropriate presentation and letting the SRL Staff know where cups are due, along with any cup suggestions they might have.
[/indent]



Setting up the Judges Panel
[indent]
Applying
Post saying you are interested. Feel free to also throw around any ideas. PM me, (or in the future - A Table Member), saying which competition(s) you find yourself fit to judge, why, why do you want to do this, your availability and any relevant experience.

Choosing
Anyone who applies will be given an opportunity to judge. You will be assigned to a competition at a whim, you can then feel free to work yourself up the ranks.

Starting Competitions
More on this will be within the Judges' forums. Things such as criteria to choose what is suitable or not for a scripting competition, the preparation of threads and rules, etc.

The Rewards
Other than the obvious prestige, self-satisfaction and community adoration? It is likely that some cups will be given around as seen fit.

Charity
Anyone who does not feel like doing this long-term, but rather just once or twice, is more than welcome to do so. All help is appreciated. :)
[/indent]


Extra Information
  • The competitions will last no longer than a month each.
  • Judging will last no longer than 3 weeks.


Now, lets see some comments and applications, as well as some enthusiasm and motivation. I'll be expecting a flooded inbox. I shall end the thread here.

Lots o' Love,
~RM

Naum

2010-05-19 10:33:33

This is a really great idea, one question though: how many judges, on average, will the table have?
Really really worthwhile, good job!

Sir R. M8gic1an

2010-05-19 10:36:04

From: Naum
This is a really great idea, one question though: how many judges, on average, will the table have?
Really really worthwhile, good job!


This will of course depend on how many people volunteer themselves to judge. I would imagine 5 people per competition and about 5 people at the table. I believe 5 to be a good number :p

~RM

Blumblebee

2010-05-19 10:38:28

so 15 people judging! Holy! I was thinking more like 3 per competition, then you can do the remove the highests and lowests and take whats left for the score :)

Gu3st...

2010-05-19 11:21:46

Looking great!
I am willing to be a judge in either of the competitions :)

Dynamite

2010-05-19 12:08:20

I am also willing to judge.

Sir R. M8gic1an

2010-05-19 12:14:56

Great! That's to people so far :)

@Blumblebee: The more the merrier I think :) As long as each person gives the necessary input on each script within the time frame, I don't see why anyone should be denied :D

If there aren't that many people, then yeah, I guess a minimum of 3 people per competition should do quite well :)

Before all the competitions start I'll probably make sure there are at least 3 judges per competition :)

~RM

Tim0suprem0

2010-05-19 13:10:27

Nice formatting RM :p no, but seriously it made it really easy to read.

I'm so psyched for this :) A question though: does everyone who wins get a Scripter's Cup? Above it says it only for JM, but I didn't know if that was because it was implied for Members and MSI Scripters. If not, I'm not sure automatically promoting someone who writes an awesome MSI script to SL is always going to be a good idea if that person writes great scripts, but isn't the greatest at helping people. Maybe for some the Cup is a better idea than giving them rank.

Like I said, it sounds awesome, I really hope I have to time this summer to write a script or two.

Narcle

2010-05-19 13:19:21

I'm sorry to say it, but devs might be excluded


Aww, I've been meaning to do a competition one of these days too. Damn.

MSI competition is always tricky, I don't think one has yet been successful?

Sir R. M8gic1an

2010-05-19 13:27:01

From: Narcle
Aww, I've been meaning to do a competition one of these days too. Damn.

MSI competition is always tricky, I don't think one has yet been successful?


I don't think so either. Will be interesting to see how well it turns out.

@Tim0:
No, ranks won't always be awarded based on the competition.
JM -> SRL, yes, as long as the script clearly is worthy of Members.
SRL -> Scripters, likely.
SRL -> Masters, Quite possible.
SRL -> MSI SL, no, not really.
SRL -> MSI Contributor cup, quite possible.

~RM

NCDS

2010-05-19 13:31:19

From: Rasta Magician

SRL -> MSI SL, no, not really.

It certainly wouldn't hurt anyone's chances though ;)

Tim0suprem0

2010-05-19 16:02:04

From: Rasta Magician

@Tim0:
No, ranks won't always be awarded based on the competition.
JM -> SRL, yes, as long as the script clearly is worthy of Members.
SRL -> Scripters, likely.
SRL -> Masters, Quite possible.
SRL -> MSI SL, no, not really.
SRL -> MSI Contributor cup, quite possible.

~RM


Thanks for the clarification :) So many goodies to earn!

JPHamlett

2010-05-19 16:57:37

alright im interested RM, lol

I think this is a great idea i dont remember haveing one successful comp here

also if it possible id like to start at JM scripts just cause i ahvnt judged in a while and i think that JM will be a good refresher

Blumblebee

2010-05-19 17:59:41

Jwing, is there a requirement to show your knowledge of scripting before you become a judge or are you automatically just a judge if you want to be?

Sir R. M8gic1an

2010-05-19 18:04:57

From: Blumblebee
Jwing, is there a requirement to show your knowledge of scripting before you become a judge or are you automatically just a judge if you want to be?


The later. A person applies, he will be given a place to judge. All SRL Members should be fit to judge JM Competitions, and therefore there will always be a place, no matter the scripting level.

A deeper understanding of scripting will of course be necessary to judge SRL Members and MSI competitions.

~RM

Town

2010-05-19 18:11:35

I'd be interested in judging, though any long-term commitment may be a stretch.

marpis

2010-05-20 01:42:24

I'm up again, especially for MSI-competition judging :) We need lots of good judges there, so we get the results quickly to keep people syked about MSI.

TRiLeZ

2010-05-20 01:48:19

I would like to judge for JMs since I'm gonna compete in the competition for SRL Members. :D

Coh3n

2010-05-20 06:04:43

Looks like an awesome system, RM. Good job! :) I'll obviously be judging for the MSI comps, but I'll just leave it at that for now. My time is limited now that I've started working.

Sir R. M8gic1an

2010-05-20 06:55:06

Looking great :D So far we have:

Judges
- Zyt3x
- The Man
- J_Pizzle
- Town
- marpis
- TRileZ
- Coh3n
- Torrent of Flame

JM
- J_Pizzle
- TRileZ
- The Man

MSI
- marpis
- coh3n

Unsorted
- Zytex
- Town
- Torrent of Flame


We still need a few more judges.. :)

~RM

Sir R. M8gic1an

2010-05-20 07:00:07

From: Narcle
Aww, I've been meaning to do a competition one of these days too. Damn.

MSI competition is always tricky, I don't think one has yet been successful?


I think the MSI competition might be able to accept Dev's entries..
If I can get one or two of the more experienced devs to judge I'd probably judge as well, to allow devs to participate :)

~RM

Dynamite

2010-05-20 12:45:02

Yeah, I will judge JM, preferably.

Gu3st...

2010-05-20 13:13:07

I don't really know what I want to judge.. I might want to join a competition too, but then I can't judge….

Sir R. M8gic1an

2010-05-20 13:15:33

From: The Man
Yeah, I will judge JM, preferably.


Seems like I'll soon get started on preparing the JM panel then!

~RM

Coh3n

2010-05-20 18:03:25

From: Rasta Magician
I think the MSI competition might be able to accept Dev's entries..
If I can get one or two of the more experienced devs to judge I'd probably judge as well, to allow devs to participate :)

~RM

I'd love to participate, but I'm assuming that wouldn't be fair considering how well I know the include, plus I wouldn't be able to judge in that case.

NCDS

2010-05-21 00:48:40

Yeah, sorry but I think I'll skip out on the judging this time. I'd kinda like to enter in one maybe :rolleyes:

I may be free to judge a separate comp though if that's allowed.

Sir R. M8gic1an

2010-05-21 04:06:59

From: NCDS
Yeah, sorry but I think I'll skip out on the judging this time. I'd kinda like to enter in one maybe :rolleyes:

I may be free to judge a separate comp though if that's allowed.


Yes, definitely allowed, judge one, enter another :)

~RM

Daniel

2010-05-21 20:34:16

I'll judge, if my calculations are correct <_> ;)

Sir R. M8gic1an

2010-05-22 10:59:57

[QUOTE=Dan's The Man;711988]I'll judge, if my calculations are correct <_> ;)

:)


I've just built up the competition forums:

SRL Scripting Competitions
- General
– View / Post to all
- Competition Discussion & Results
– Threads: staff
- The Table
- MSI Competition
- SRL Competition
- JM Competition
- Archive
– Locked


They're not visible yet, still need to set up all the permissions correctly. Once I'm done with that we can get this moving :)

Edit
  1. Added Judges' usergroups.
  2. Setup Viewing permissions.
  3. Opened up competition forums.
  4. Deleted old Competition forums (private & public) - All threads moved.

~RM

Dynamite

2010-05-22 11:22:04

Sounds good RM.
Can't wait to start judging :D

Daniel

2010-05-23 07:20:12

From: Rasta Magician
:)

I've just built up the competition forums:

They're not visible yet, still need to set up all the permissions correctly. Once I'm done with that we can get this moving :)

Edit
  1. Added Judges' usergroups.
  2. Setup Viewing permissions.
  3. Opened up competition forums.
  4. Deleted old Competition forums (private & public) - All threads moved.

~RM


Can we please not have it as a separate category please (just like all the other unessential categories present)? :)

Makes the forum look cluttered and ugly, as-well as increasing page load times.

Sir R. M8gic1an

2010-05-23 10:51:30

[QUOTE=Dan's The Man;712277]Can we please not have it as a separate category please [/quote]

will consider
Edit: I'll leave it as it is, there's a big forum re-structure coming up, so no point figuring out where it's best until then.


(just like all the other unessential categories present)? :)

And those would be?



Makes the forum look cluttered and ugly, as-well as increasing page load times.


Better this than making 99 clicks to get to what you want to…

~RM

Daniel

2010-05-25 08:01:05

From: Rasta Magician
And those would be?


  • Tutorials category
  • SCAR/Simba category
  • SRL Competition category
  • Black Market (it's SRL Members+ only, why not have it in the SRL Members category?)
  • Homework (can be put in "General Help")…

Sir R. M8gic1an

2010-05-25 15:47:09

[QUOTE=Dan's The Man;712693][list]
[*]Tutorials category
[*]SCAR/Simba category
[*]SRL Competition category
[*]Black Market (it's SRL Members+ only, why not have it in the SRL Members category?)
[*]Homework (can be put in "General Help")… Humm. I disagree on the first two. Where would you put tutorials? ~RM

Daniel

2010-05-26 02:40:42

From: Rasta Magician
Where would you put tutorials?

~RM


Where it used to be, SRL Public Forum right under Scripting Help instead of all the way at the damn bottom :)

Sir R. M8gic1an

2010-05-26 05:12:24

[QUOTE=Dan's The Man;712850]Where it used to be, SRL Public Forum right under Scripting Help instead of all the way at the damn bottom :)[/QUOTE]

Meh, SRL Public forum already has way too many subforums. Anyway, this is going off topic.

~RM