SRL Archive - Discussions & Debates

I was just wondering what the people of SRL thought of this.

Personally…
I have been fed up with the world for a long time. I have always thought that all this bullshit with religion, politics, and ignorance was just something that couldn't be fixed. To me, this movement makes perfect sense. I'm curious to see what you all have to say about it though…

For those of you who do not know what the Zeitgeist Movement or the Venus Project is:

http://www2.thevenusproject.com/

http://thezeitgeistmovement.com/

I'd also recommend watching these videos to those interested:

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

I have been a member of this movement for quite a long time now. The Zeitgeist movies are truely amazing and probably shocking to a lot of religious folks.

I just had my first "Love at first sight" moment.. o_o
I love it!

have you ever thought instead of society having problems its you who has problems with society?

^ I've problems with society because society has problems. Did you watch the movies? :>

i book marked the arizona chapter website, :)

i'm also defidently telling my friends + teachers about it

I've recommended this to a lot of teachers at my school a while ago.

I just cannot see how this Venus project can work. To me, it feels just like another learning cycle of an intelligant organism, mainly based on trial and error.

(Humans too diverse, I dont think that can change except with "purging")

From: mrpickle
I just cannot see how this Venus project can work. To me, it feels just like another learning cycle of an intelligant organism, mainly based on trial and error.

(Humans too diverse, I dont think that can change except with "purging")

If you read what Jacque Fresco has stated about this then you will see that you are making the same points as he. He doesn't believe that we are all going to stop the way of life we are living and just adopt this new society… he says that it will take the failure of our governments and the failure of the monetary system before people will actually go "oh shit this is a stupid way of doing things". IE trial and error… the error being the complete and utter failure of our society.

This is why the Zeitgeist Movement is trying to educate the world about this alternative society. So when the time comes… we won't fuck it up and develop some bullshit government and monetary system again.

Hell, if enough people become educated enough to realize they are being enslaved by money maybe the process could be speed up so we could at least see some progress in our generation.

Today is when I first heard of the venus project. Did a quick read on "Zeitgeist: Addendum and The Venus Project hoax", and made an opinion.

alternative society. I guess for the time being, only time can tell, unless every society in the world is surveyed in depth on the matter.



It's sad to hear: "least see some progress in our generation".

From: mrpickle
Today is when I first heard of the venus project. Did a quick read on "Zeitgeist: Addendum and The Venus Project hoax", and made an opinion.

alternative society. I guess for the time being, only time can tell, unless every society in the world is surveyed in depth on the matter.



It's sad to hear: "least see some progress in our generation".

The truth is that our progress in the world is really not going well. We've done more destruction than anything.

I agree that it is a sad thing to say. Unfortunately it is the truth…

We are in a horrible state in society that will only get worse unless something is done about it. Everyone deserves to know the truth about what is going on in the world. However, there are those who follow things so blindly that they will defend their current state of slavery.

Before I had heard about this movement I felt that ignorance was the biggest disease in the world. It seems that there are too few that keep an open mind to new ideas, especially ones that challenge the current state of society and their way of life. I have been looking to figure out a way to combat this ignorance. The Zeitgeist Movement does that and so much more. Not only does it fight for people to become free and objective thinkers, but it also takes it a step further and shows us how to use this knowledge for the benefit of the world… not just your city or your country, but the whole world.

Lately I've been thinking about it, and I'm not sure if I'm fine with everything or not. And by "fine with everything" I mean how we really aren't free at all due to the government, money, and businesses. In some sense, I feel as though it's productive to fight it (very slow production, admittedly), because it's wrong and is very controlling. But is it really wrong? Not in a sense that assassinations aren't wrong or anything, but Is it wrong that it's controlling? I'm not sure. Because the majority of people seem to need the control (as this system hasn't been fought in America, so we're most likely just idiotic and immature enough to need the constant control). So is it really that bad to lead these people a false life if the unaware people live a "happy" life and have a family and a house and what not? I'm not sure. I guess I've also been thinking about fighting it and I don't see too much point. But I dunno.

I'm sure you (the proverbial you) would be surprised at how many people don't want to be free.

Well, Brain, I know that it was only recently that we started saying we "wanted to be individuals," and that it has been traditionally frowned upon to not be part of the "herd." I still believe we're like this, as if everyone were to "be an individual," they wouldn't be individual at all.

Fresco is at least right on one aspect. What has brought us prosperity? Was that politics? Nope. Was it Religion….nope. Was it science? Yes! it is science that has brought us this far. Historically speaking, the world has never been safer as it is today (provided idiots dont mess it up too much). no matter what you hear or see. We Europeans haven't been to war in over 65 years! That is unprecedented. I doubt we will ever see a war on Western European grounds.

It is the driving force of technology that is pushing mankind towards new enlightnement. So, come on, let's solve all those crisises (sp?) once and for all! Energy Crisis? The Sun. the Wind, come on, there is more then enough fuel for all mankind. Free energy! Any idea what will cause that? Humanitarian Crisis? Technology is your answer, and Civilisation will soon follow.
Extremism? Give 'm all a celphone, a HD Color TV, a laptop, a fridge, a microwave, and a dishwasher. Problem solved :)

From: i luffs yeww
So is it really that bad to lead these people a false life if the unaware people live a "happy" life and have a family and a house and what not? I'm not sure. I guess I've also been thinking about fighting it and I don't see too much point. But I dunno.

Ask yourself this… how many people today die of starvation in 3rd world countries? How many people die because of this system? There are millions of people who are robbed of your definition of a "happy life".

Looking at the other end of the spectrum in America… Coronary Heart Disease is the leading cause of death. It kills thousands each year due to this system. We are living "happy" lives you say? No. It is because this is all we know… and the media tells us that we are happy. The media (controlled by the corporations) tell the sheep exactly what they want and how to act.

What do we do with our lives? We are born. We get told who we are and who we represent. We go to school and get taught through the biases of our nation. Then we are forced to get a job. We work the majority of our lives. And then we die.

You might say… well we have time in between all that to be happy and have fun and invent and be creative. You are correct. But how much time of our lives is spent doing all that other BULLSHIT… when we have the CAPABILITY to feed the whole world, cure diseases, and be truly and utterly free to do what we want… you decide if you are "happy" with the world we live in.

@WT-Fakawi

Hell yes!

From: i luffs yeww
^ I've problems with society because society has problems. Did you watch the movies? :>

no but i can tell you that blaming your problems on this horrible apparition called 'society' is no way to live; you are the sole recourse for change in your life.
the great Mahatma Gandhi once said, " you must be the change you want to see in the world. " you dont watch a movie and complain on an internet forum about it hoping someone will do something

and regardless this whole thing seems like a cult or scam to me. that web page has like fucking giant, hourglass-shaped towers and planned, futuristic communities on it? they dont ask for money or information about you or anything?

edit: http://www2.thevenusproject.com/store-donate
need i say more?

From: gerauchert
Ask yourself this… how many people today die of starvation in 3rd world countries? How many people die because of this system? There are millions of people who are robbed of your definition of a "happy life".

Looking at the other end of the spectrum in America… Coronary Heart Disease is the leading cause of death. It kills thousands each year due to this system. We are living "happy" lives you say? No. It is because this is all we know… and the media tells us that we are happy. The media (controlled by the corporations) tell the sheep exactly what they want and how to act.

What do we do with our lives? We are born. We get told who we are and who we represent. We go to school and get taught through the biases of our nation. Then we are forced to get a job. We work the majority of our lives. And then we die.

You might say… well we have time in between all that to be happy and have fun and invent and be creative. You are correct. But how much time of our lives is spent doing all that other BULLSHIT… when we have the CAPABILITY to feed the whole world, cure diseases, and be truly and utterly free to do what we want… you decide if you are "happy" with the world we live in.

@WT-Fakawi

Hell yes!

:p I think I said some things incorrect last night. I agree with you. I watched the movies, too. :3 But I just think that it's not an entirely bad thing to do to America. To other countries it sucks, and I wish it wouldn't be like that, but I'm not going to say much about that because I haven't (and most likely won't) ever do anything to help that in my life.

I dunno. :p

Andddd

Blackelvis, how is allowing donations bad? >_>

oh my god this guy is so obviously just pushing the shit he sells and taking whatever poor saps he can along for the ride whether he knows it or not. why would this guy have all the answers? of all the points in time why would this be the revolutionary one? i don't need to know more than the most obvious facts about this whole idea/movement/scam; it reeks of inauthenticity. it so obviously not the answer to whatever questions you may have.

edits:http://tzm-official.deviantart.com/
http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=238&id=216116

are these really the kind of people who knows whats up? who just have their fucking fingers glued to the pulse of humanity??? furries and shut ins????? you cannot be serious

And why? I don't see any point of your hate. :< I think you're just scurred of change. :/ And it's not just one person or one idea or anything. This has been going on for awhile with many people and many ideas from many times.

scared of change? im scared of how obviously fools are taken advantage of these days. whatever this is this guy/ or his organization or whatever the fuck you believe in, just promises change? where does it actualize? he probably doesnt ask you to do anything too hard or challenging? besides maybe emptying your pocketbook. where is the call to action? how can you change society as a whole if the individuals such as yourself havent done anything themselves to manifest it. in the famous words of Shakespeare, "the lady doth protest too much" he just lulls dumb people into to some semblance of security and uses generalized terms and examples. its just a ruse. the tyranny of evil men. false prophets

I don't see how I'm being taking advantage of at all? Or how I'm a fool?

Also, churches ask for money from people all the time. You've posted in many religious threads, and have never said anything about churches asking for money from people and then using the money however they please. To me, that seems odd.. >_>

i didnt say 'hey go to church and believe all that shit' either. dont try to frame the ideas of mainstream religion. blame the people who use it as a tool for greed and for war. im done with this; its obvious we cant have a serious discussion.

@blackelvis

I just want you to think about what you're saying. I'm a 17 year old guy. Do you think that this instant, with your bad punctuation and run on sentences containing quotes of famous people, that I am going to get out of my seat and stop the world's evils in one shot? Whatever kind of drugs you're on, I suggest you give them to the world. Then give them your shitty quotes of "everyone is the world" and "only you can change what your world is" and maybe that will solve all of the problems.

Maybe you don't even know what you're talking about. You haven't watched the videos, and it shows in your ignorance. Maybe you love your government, maybe you love that the banks can take your money and lose it, go bankrupt, and start a recession. I'd like to hear a good point from you without using a quote saying that we should change the world.

Or maybe if you have some sort of problem with this movement trying to start a change, what with your "false prophets" shit, you should think of history as a whole. What have we ever done that didn't involve leadership from someone, instruction from someone at some point in your life? Maybe you forget that religion has enslaved the thoughts of billions of people throughout humanity, but the entire foundation of religion involves "prophets" talking nonsense to energize people.

I suggest you dig harder, there are organizations of this movement worldwide. I realize we can't uproot society and become perfect, maybe you think that "you must be the change you want to see in the world" but the change of one person does jack shit these days, you need to fight off the ignorance of society first. So watch the videos, or keep your ignorance out of the thread? :)

From: 3Garrett3


Or maybe if you have some sort of problem with this movement trying to start a change, what with your "false prophets" shit, you should think of history as a whole. What have we ever done that didn't involve leadership from someone, instruction from someone at some point in your life? Maybe you forget that religion has enslaved the thoughts of billions of people throughout humanity, but the entire foundation of religion involves "prophets" talking nonsense to energize people.

i dont think hitler politely asked you to buy a copy of mein kampf after he addressed the third reich

^ Why not?

Truth is when this society goes down, it will be much different then what these Zeitgeist think it will be. Also sounds like they want to create a world of Atheists.

Also can someone explain better the idea of this movement? Do they think Religion is the problem for Humanity? Dont feel like watching anything atm.

Because not everyone has money. not everyone belongs to this delusional idea of 'society' you're prescribed to. His target audience is stupid, bourgeois, middle-class idiots. walk out your god damned door a gain some perspective. the fallacy of your thought is that life is almost expected to have a fortune outcome that society and life in general will become greater and greater, never reaching its prime, until it inexplicably and tragically ends. im quitting this conversation forever.

From: blackelvis
i dont think hitler politely asked you to buy a copy of mein kampf after he addressed the third reich

If you watched the video, you would see that the American government has basically copied the tactics of Hitler. 9/11 = the war on terror. Hitler purposely burned his own parliament building, blamed other people, started a war as a form of "homeland security".

From: kingarabian
Truth is when this society goes down, it will be much different then what these Zeitgeist think it will be. Also sounds like they want to create a world of Atheists.

Also can someone explain better the idea of this movement? Do they think Religion is the problem for Humanity? Dont feel like watching anything atm.

I agree with you, but after watching the videos, I think that what they suggest is a good idea.

To describe two videos which are 2 hours each in a forum post is unrealistic, I might have an easier time over msn if you add me.

From: blackelvis
Because not everyone has money. not everyone belongs to this delusional idea of 'society' you're prescribed to. His target audience is stupid, bourgeois, middle-class idiots. walk out your god damned door a gain some perspective. The fallacy of your thought is that life is almost expected to have a fortune outcome; that society and life in general will become greater and greater, never reaching its prime, until it inexplicably and tragically ends. im quitting this conversation forever.

Very nice post +1! Religion was brought down from God to help Humanity throughout life and a reward in the hereafter.

Plus if you do some research alot of people that rule this society, hidden or not, are Atheists or Jews.

Well now I'm very confused why you think what you think. >_> Oh well.

Kingarabian, I don't think you're entirely correct. All that I directly heard from the movies was that religion is not the reason for the advances we have, and it is technology.

From: 3Garrett3
If you watched the video, you would see that the American government has basically copied the tactics of Hitler. 9/11 = the war on terror. Hitler purposely burned his own parliament building, blamed other people, started a war as a form of "homeland security".

if you couldn't draw these conclusions yourself then i can understand why you might believe this zeitgeist tripe. he's just drawing logical conclusions you couldn't make for yourself because you are too uneducated or just a dope who now is almost certain to take the bait

also king arabian are you familiar with the term 'abrahamic religion'

sorry im really done sorry sorry sorry

It's not a "he," first of all. >_> Second of all, you're not very good at keeping your word. :p

From: blackelvis
if you couldn't draw these conclusions yourself then i can understand why you might believe this zeitgeist tripe. he's just drawing logical conclusions you couldn't make for yourself because you are too uneducated or just a dope who now is almost certain to take the bait

also king arabian are you familiar with the term 'abrahamic religion'

sorry im really done sorry sorry sorry

I was making a simple point, because I was assuming that you were too uneducated to make the conclusion yourself.

You obviously fail to grasp the concept. I feel like one of those religious fools who tries to get you to believe that God is real and judging you right now. Except with an actual idea of what is going on. Maybe before you bash the entire thing, you should gain some perspective about it and realize what it is actually talking about.

You might as well be telling every single person who believes in religion that they are an 'uneducated dope' and took the bait of a completely fictional story. The product of this story is that the churches rake in billions of dollars of profits because of "donations". So why don't you get off your high horse and realize that maybe you are the ignorant one. By arguing against this with a little information from google, which may or may not even be what this movement believes in, you are doing the same thing that millions of people do when they argue that their religion is right, when they know nothing about any other religion, or their own for that matter.

@Blackelvis

You obviously don't agree with this movement… so lets have some intelligent talk about it then. Getting all pissed off and saying how stupid we have to be to buy into this just makes look you ignorant. I have many good points to offer, many of which I had come to the conclusion to before I had even heard of this movement.

@Kingarabian

Yes the movement does attack religion… but you have to keep in mind that the mentality behind this entire thing is science and technology based (religion being the opposite of science). Keep your religious beliefs. Look at the general idea behind this.

In a monetary system, technology is PURPOSELY held back in order to keep the cycle going. (I knew this before I had even heard of this movement) I mean why do you think our cars only last so long before breaking down? If we made the highest quality cars we could with available resources and technology people wouldn't have to perpetually spend money on their cars and their NEW cars. The technology is there, but how many people would lose their jobs if people weren't buying new cars each year…

This means that we HAVE the potential to solve world hunger and the energy "crisis"… but how would solving that be profitable… who would fund that?

People really can only relate to the current state of technology in the market… not what CAN be made. We HAVE the RESOURCES to do what ever we want… but this made up thing called money is holding the entire state of technology back.

If we were to use all the available resources for the benefit of the world instead of fighting over them we could create better lives for everyone.

can you really not see the similarities between the institutions of religion and science?

From: gerauchert
@Blackelvis

You obviously don't agree with this movement… so lets have some intelligent talk about it then. Getting all pissed off and saying how stupid we have to be to buy into this just makes look you ignorant. I have many good points to offer, many of which I had come to the conclusion to before I had even heard of this movement.

@Kingarabian

Yes the movement does attack religion… but you have to keep in mind that the mentality behind this entire thing is science and technology based (religion being the opposite of science). Keep your religious beliefs. Look at the general idea behind this.

In a monetary system, technology is PURPOSELY held back in order to keep the cycle going. (I knew this before I had even heard of this movement) I mean why do you think our cars only last so long before breaking down? If we made the highest quality cars we could with available resources and technology people wouldn't have to perpetually spend money on their cars and their NEW cars. The technology is there, but how many people would lose their jobs if people weren't buying new cars each year…

This means that we HAVE the potential to solve world hunger and the energy "crisis"… but how would solving that be profitable… who would fund that?

People really can only relate to the current state of technology in the market… not what CAN be made. We HAVE the RESOURCES to do what ever we want… but this made up thing called money is holding the entire state of technology back.

If we were to use all the available resources for the benefit of the world instead of fighting over them we could create better lives for everyone.

But religion is not the opposite of Science.

Science in medieval Islam

I agree with your last 2 paragraphs. But the problem here is a group of people want power to these resources. Thats why theres war in the middle east. Its how people are made, wanting everything for themselves. Thats why in 09 the oil companies had the most profits.

^ War in the middle east is talked about in the movies if you'd watch them. :)

From: kingarabian
But religion is not the opposite of Science.

Science in medieval Islam

I agree with your last 2 paragraphs. But the problem here is a group of people want power to these resources. Thats why theres war in the middle east. Its how people are made, wanting everything for themselves. Thats why in 09 the oil companies had the most profits.

so wait, your supporting the fact that people cheat and are unethical so they can have some more fake money, while more than half the world population is in poverty?

From: Awkwardsaw
so wait, your supporting the fact that people cheat and are unethical so they can have some more fake money, while more than half the world population is in poverty?

NO!!!

^ That doesn't explain your views. Elaborate? :)

From: kingarabian
NO!!!

Then the basic stance of this whole movement represents your beliefs. Reaching for our potential rather than letting money get in the way of what we do.

From: 3Garrett3
rather than letting money get in the way of what we do.

how does this not sound like a scam/cult for detached bourgeois suburbanites in any context.

this adamant belief in 'science' not being a religion. heres a great example. its the same reason why people who havent done drugs inherently think theyre bad. why are they badto them? because all of this irrefutable proof 'science' has given them. theyve never done anything for themselves but thats okay! because science is there to explain it all!

tons of irrefutable evidence for that happened in a very relative context: http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56437

you can manipulate test results and data and everything scientific just as you can manipulate the word of god or the fucking flying spaghetti monster. People use the false pretense of science to get you to do shit all the time. what about shit like eugenics? and all of the shit you heard in your 11th grade history class about people in the 19th and 20th centuries using false science to prove the inferiority of other races and such? its still happening as i live and breathe! open your fucking stupid eyes man. its all the same thing. a tool to manipulate idiots, and fools; the weak.

Because it's not about money at all. >_> And many other things.

please read it again i edited it pretty exstensively and am kind of defeating the purpose now
pretty valid points. i think.
what a glorious fruit scientific endeavor can bear

From: blackelvis
how does this not sound like a scam/cult for detached bourgeois suburbanites in any context.

this adamant belief in 'science' not being a religion. heres a great example. its the same reason why people who havent done drugs inherently think theyre bad. why are they badto them? because all of this irrefutable proof 'science' has given them. theyve never done anything for themselves but thats okay! because science is there to explain it all!

tons of irrefutable evidence for that happened in a very relative context: http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56437

you can manipulate test results and data and everything scientific just as you can manipulate the word of god or the fucking flying spaghetti monster. People use the false pretense of science to get you to do shit all the time. what about shit like eugenics? and all of the shit you heard in your 11th grade history class about people in the 19th and 20th centuries using false science to prove the inferiority of other races and such? its still happening as i live and breathe! open your fucking stupid eyes man. its all the same thing. a tool to manipulate idiots, and fools; the weak.

Your comparisons make no sense, just sayin.

First, you take a quote, put it out of context, and continue flaming with little actual knowledge about what you're talking about (you don't even understand the movement), use a couple big words, swear some for the added effect I'm guessing, then call me a fool, and weak. But after reading this post twice, I still have no idea what point you're trying to get at. That I'm an idiot? That everyone who wants a better future that isn't run by a central bank is an idiot? That every single person who doesn't want their lives to be ruled by people who try to make more money is an idiot? I really don't see any evidence behind that.

You tried to make a point though, and as any good debate should go, I will attempt to prove to you that you are in fact the "Weak" or "Idiot" or "Fool". Whichever you would prefer.

You have said that science is telling people what to do. But in saying this, you actually make yourself look like a complete tool, because you have both not seen the videos expressing the views of people involved in this movement, but you are also stating the opposite views of the people here. They aren't saying "this is what happened, deal with it". Change is the desired effect that will come from this. Why can't you wrap your head around it? People who want an honest life that isn't governed by the people who just want to make a profit aren't retarded, so maybe you can (once again) get off your fucking high horse and stop being so ignorant. Thanks

From: 3Garrett3
Your comparisons make no sense, just sayin.

First, you take a quote, put it out of context, and continue flaming with little actual knowledge about what you're talking about (you don't even understand the movement), use a couple big words, swear some for the added effect I'm guessing, then call me a fool, and weak. But after reading this post twice, I still have no idea what point you're trying to get at. That I'm an idiot? That everyone who wants a better future that isn't run by a central bank is an idiot? That every single person who doesn't want their lives to be ruled by people who try to make more money is an idiot? I really don't see any evidence behind that.

You tried to make a point though, and as any good debate should go, I will attempt to prove to you that you are in fact the "Weak" or "Idiot" or "Fool". Whichever you would prefer.

You have said that science is telling people what to do. But in saying this, you actually make yourself look like a complete tool, because you have both not seen the videos expressing the views of people involved in this movement, but you are also stating the opposite views of the people here. They aren't saying "this is what happened, deal with it". Change is the desired effect that will come from this. Why can't you wrap your head around it? People who want an honest life that isn't governed by the people who just want to make a profit aren't retarded, so maybe you can (once again) get off your fucking high horse and stop being so ignorant. Thanks

i think they make i lot of sense, i was comparing the similarities of science and religion and how thy can be used to manipulate. can they not? can you address this major point in my arguement? that science, just as religion, can be used to manipulate?

From: blackelvis
i think they make i lot of sense, i was comparing the similarities of science and religion and how thy can be used to manipulate. can they not? can you address this major point in my arguement? that science, just as religion, can be used to manipulate?

Science and religion can be used to manipulate. As can just about anything in life. I don't see what you're getting at? The point of the Zeitgeist movement is not to say that religion is the one source of deceit in the world.

E: To solve some of your knowledge issues, perhaps take a look at wikipedia. Though it's a terrible source usually, the basics of the movement are there, and you may understand what it means. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Zeitgeist_Movement

well that was my main point and the breadth of my argument because this is where i got my info

From: gerauchert


Yes the movement does attack religion… but you have to keep in mind that the mentality behind this entire thing is science and technology based (religion being the opposite of science). Keep your religious beliefs. Look at the general idea behind this.

which is suppose is a little more than watery. but i mean how can you buy this? anything this guy is pushing: liberal hegemony, the fallacy of religion, the truth behind 9/11. I have no idea. But i can guarantee you. I can swear on my honor this man is no revolutionary. that nothing will come of this. that this movement is a sham, a ruse, a fluke. its not happening anywhere, noone is holding secret meetings, noone is forming political parties noone is advocating for the cause. youve never heard about it on the news or on tv or in the paper. no one credible has even mentioned it. do you think all the world leaders wake up and think 'oh fuck! the zeitgeist movement' some fuck with a PhD who has never done anything notable for anyone? nigga please! come on you have got to be kidding me! be realistic! this isnt even grass roots! its not roots at all! its a fucking dirty patch!

From: blackelvis
well that was my main point and the breadth of my argument because this is where i got my info



which is suppose is a little more than watery. but i mean how can you buy this? anything this guy is pushing: liberal hegemony, the fallacy of religion, the truth behind 9/11. I have no idea. But i can guarantee you. I can swear on my honor this man is no revolutionary. that nothing will come of this. that this movement is a sham, a ruse, a fluke. its not happening anywhere, noone is holding secret meetings, noone is forming political parties noone is advocating for the cause. youve never heard about it on the news or on tv or in the paper. no one credible has even mentioned it. do you think all the world leaders wake up and think 'oh fuck! the zeitgeist movement' some fuck with a PhD who has never done anything notable for anyone? nigga please! come on you have got to be kidding me! be realistic! this isnt even grass roots! its not roots at all! its a fucking dirty patch!

He's not pushing that, the first movie was a presentation he put together and showed at a meet for the movement once, which was then turned into a video. Apparently a new film is coming out in October which is going to clearly state the goals of the movement.

Here they are (off wikipedia, in case you didn't see my edit)

Concepts advocated by the Zeitgeist Movement

* No money: money creates established institutions that are forced to protect themselves which inhibits progress[8].
* Automation: Automation is more productive than human labor and frees mankind from repetitive and tedious tasks[9].
* Artificial intelligence: Machines are needed to make decisions objectively, unlike humans who are susceptible to personal projections, desires or bias. Machines are also needed to store and retrieve information because humans have a limited capacity for memory.[10].
* Technological unification of the globe: Globally shared technology is required to monitor planetary resources[11].
* Scientific methodology: Planetary government is obligated to methodology not individuals. Governing decisions are arrived at through scientific method, not belief[12].
* No property: Property is wasteful and unsustainable.[13].
* Sustainable city systems:Belief in a unified systems approach. Systems theory and a systemic approach for a self-sustaining globe and culture can be modeled on a smaller scale with a city-size system[14]

Which all seem like good ideas. He has a practical idea for something which could end up as close to a utopia as we have ever seen.

There are 400 000 people active in the movement apparently so far. It's far from nothing. They aren't holding secret meetings, rather they have open meetings, as a grassroots organization would. The two videos they have produced have won awards, this isn't going unnoticed by people.

You are incorrect in a lot of ways.

Also, this is not a single man. Stop calling the Zeitgeist Movement a "him." Thanks.

Anyway, the point of this is to say that we could be doing better as humans, which we can. It also supports equality. How terrible is that!? OH GAWD EQUAL RIGHTS! NOOOOOOO! On top of that, they way you think that anything can be solved is idiotic, and very contradicting. You're making yourself look like an ignorant kid. Nobody has to hold secret meetings. Nobody has to form a political party. And why would it need to be in the news? I hope you know that the news is supposed to be completely unbiased, so this most likely wouldn't be allowed to be on the news. And, again, it's not just "some f**k with a PhD;" (the punctuation for that seems incorrect) this is a group of ideas that have been spoken of by many intelligent people (people that were on the news, which obviously means they're correct, right?).

And, earlier you posted a quote by Gandhi about seeing the change in yourself. I dunnooo, but I don't think you're that kind of person in the slightest, by saying that this doesn't have enough publicity to be truthful.

(Also, I hope you know that Scientology is ridiculous, yet it gets much much more publicity than this. Huh. How could that be? Wouldn't Scientology need to be important and a powerful thing to get coverage?)

From: 3Garrett3
He's not pushing that, the first movie was a presentation he put together and showed at a meet for the movement once, which was then turned into a video. Apparently a new film is coming out in October which is going to clearly state the goals of the movement.

Here they are (off wikipedia, in case you didn't see my edit)

Concepts advocated by the Zeitgeist Movement



Which all seem like good ideas. He has a practical idea for something which could end up as close to a utopia as we have ever seen.

There are 400 000 people active in the movement apparently so far. It's far from nothing. They aren't holding secret meetings, rather they have open meetings, as a grassroots organization would. The two videos they have produced have won awards, this isn't going unnoticed by people.

alright well when you live in your planned community away from ugly scary black/mexican/arab/chinese/indian/whatever ideas and theres no money or white-anglo-etc cultural anxieties and all of the worlds problems are fixed send me a post card that says 'i told you so' change yourself. not the world. i really quit this time i promise. nothing is unsaid.

From: blackelvis
alright well when you live in your planned community away from ugly scary black/mexican/arab/chinese/indian/whatever ideas and theres no money or white-anglo-etc cultural anxieties and all of the worlds problems are fixed send me a post card that says 'i told you so' change yourself. not the world. i really quit this time i promise. nothing is unsaid.

this movement isnt even going to really start until the current system fails(or gains enough publicity, and people actually get brains, unlikley though). which can be anywhere from tomorrow or a century.

so in the mean time buy my book omg so obvious!!!!!!!!!!!!

From: blackelvis
so in the mean time buy my book omg so obvious!!!!!!!!!!!!

wat?

this seems like a debate upon the state of human nature: hobbes vs rousseau. :D

have to admit, i am in agreeance with Hobbes

I agree with both, to some extent. The only thing that I can think about is children. But maybe make another thread about Hobbes and Rousseau. :3

Blackelvis, did you read below?

From: i luffs yeww
You are incorrect in a lot of ways.

Also, this is not a single man. Stop calling the Zeitgeist Movement a "him." Thanks.

Anyway, the point of this is to say that we could be doing better as humans, which we can. It also supports equality. How terrible is that!? OH GAWD EQUAL RIGHTS! NOOOOOOO! On top of that, they way you think that anything can be solved is idiotic, and very contradicting. You're making yourself look like an ignorant kid. Nobody has to hold secret meetings. Nobody has to form a political party. And why would it need to be in the news? I hope you know that the news is supposed to be completely unbiased, so this most likely wouldn't be allowed to be on the news. And, again, it's not just "some f**k with a PhD;" (the punctuation for that seems incorrect) this is a group of ideas that have been spoken of by many intelligent people (people that were on the news, which obviously means they're correct, right?).

And, earlier you posted a quote by Gandhi about seeing the change in yourself. I dunnooo, but I don't think you're that kind of person in the slightest, by saying that this doesn't have enough publicity to be truthful.

(Also, I hope you know that Scientology is ridiculous, yet it gets much much more publicity than this. Huh. How could that be? Wouldn't Scientology need to be important and a powerful thing to get coverage?)

god i sure hope im hobbes

Alot of it is aimed at specific "cliches" (cultures/intelligence levels) of people/society, because it encompasses alot of elements, but that's not neccessarily a bad thing. I agree with the principles behind it, not all of the specifics but thats because he uses alot of hyperbole/targeted information and attempts to predict how the coming enlightenment/social revolution will play out - in reality, thats just one possible permutation and there will be differences - but some people need to see an end result to see how messed up the current situation is. That's the main point of the movie, to show explicitly that society could be a LOT better. Which alot of people don't recognise (yet).

blackelvis: The director of the movie knows the things you're saying, but rather than draw a conclusion immediately about the movie and whole concept based off some low-level trickery, ask why did the director utilise those ploys and it will all make sense. :)

From: blackelvis
so in the mean time buy my book omg so obvious!!!!!!!!!!!!

"The movement by Joseph's own admission isn't functional in any real capacity[19]. Joseph states that better organization is still needed which will be facilitated by more focused people, and more central organizers. As of April 20, 2010 the Zeitgeist Movement was officially not accepting any funding[20]."

Blackelvis…

You talk a lot about how Science can easily manipulate people but you never once gave a credible reason WHY they would do this. If you look at the goals of this movement and the Venus Project you'll see that there would be no point…

If you are making the argument that they are just doing it to play on our emotions to make money on books, dvd's, and donations then you are being ridiculous. Think about it. We still live in a monetary system… how else would this movement or ANY organization for that matter be able to reach out to the public without money to fund them? If they were so bent on making money out of us they would not give away so much free information… think about it. I was able to watch two different movies, each about 2 hours long. I was able to read a free e-book about this provide by the site. I watched a 2 hour presentation about the movement. All for free.

Also if you take a look at the founder of the Venus Project, Jacque Fresco, he has been doing this his ENTIRE LIFE (hes in his 90's now). Does he seem like he is a corrupt, filthy rich man who is just full of lies and deceit? Look at his credentials…. you laugh at the futuristic models and other things that are on the site, but you have to understand that he ACTUALLY DESIGNED AND BUILT some of these things already (keep in mind that the shit required to build all of that isnt free). What would be his motivation to manipulate people about this?

You talk about why we haven't heard about this in the news or anywhere…

Think about it. Who funds the media? Thats right the corporations. Who holds the monetary power in this world? Oh yeah the corporations. Who doesn't want to see their current power disappear? You guessed it the corporations. Why in the HELL would they support a movement calling for the abolition of the monetary system, their entire source of power…

Damn dude. Its all pretty logical… I don't seem to get how you can think this is some sort of cult. I was raised in the Jehovah's Witness faith… I have first hand experience of what a cult is like. Cults keep you ignorant of the world around you. They make you believe that this way is the ONLY true way to live. Everything in science contradicts that. Science encourages new ideas to challenge existing theories and laws. Science encourages free thought and abstract ideas to solve problems. What cult today does anything like this?

End this ignorance man.

Can I just plainly add that We people need to do something that will occupy our time, otherwise we will do some crazy things to satisfy that need (war, arguments, new religion, manage a forum etc).

I come to this conclusion from the worst enemy of survival, bordom.

^ But something to do can simply be nothing. Kinda like "if anything is possible, then that leaves there to be a possibility of something being impossible." Paradox, pl0x? :)

But you do raise a good point, and it's the same reason that I don't think that ADHD is an actual "disorder" of any sort. I think it is merely our society making people need to be acting upon something at all times (I have been faking "ADHD" for this school year to get into a class with others with "ADHD," as I find it interesting (and it gets me out of a fifth period class :D), and I've definitely noticed that they act different. But I haven't yet figured out if they act different because they told their different or if they have something different about them).

^ But something to do can simply be nothing. Kinda like "if anything is possible, then that leaves there to be a possibility of something being impossible." Paradox, pl0x?

Something can be nothing, as nothing can be something. Depends on how far down the fine details you wish to go.
(eg. 1/10^10000… We consider that zero cuz its just so tiny… but in essance, # > 0, thus it is something. Something that's nothing, get it? :).

For you I guess, you like to enjoy yourself more rather than doing actual assigned work. Loitering about sure is doing something (thinking, relaxing, pacing), even though that something is close to nothing. Therefore it's not a paradox…

*Bordom also leads to many great discoveries :D… and crimes xD
(your ADHD story gives me second thoughs on some students that i've met >.<)

:p I'm sure my ADHD watchfulness isn't very common. I just enjoy studying people (>_> I read textbooks in my free time). And I was saying that "if anything is possible, then that leaves there to be a possibility of something being impossible." is a paradox, not what you said. :)

And I wouldn't say I enjoy myself (ha) rather than doing work. I would rather help anyone than myself. And I do my work and everything. :) I'm only on here during school because I've nothing to do.

From: mrpickle
Can I just plainly add that We people need to do something that will occupy our time, otherwise we will do some crazy things to satisfy that need (war, arguments, new religion, manage a forum etc).

I come to this conclusion from the worst enemy of survival, bordom.

I agree with the boredom aspect, but is it because of human nature? Or is it due to the fact that we have been conditioned to do these things?

From: The Claw
\blackelvis: The director of the movie knows the things you're saying, but rather than draw a conclusion immediately about the movie and whole concept based off some low-level trickery, ask why did the director utilise those ploys and it will all make sense. :)

to make some god damn money why else? to be famous? to be remembered? to have some sort of ever-lasting manifestion on earth? its not out of his benevolence; he is not providence. this whole whatever movement/book/movie/guy/omniscient being , whatever you want to equate it to, is based upon false intentions. he hasnt done anything except tell a lie to a bunch of idiots. its just a bunch of buzz words and generalized crap.

From: blackelvis
to make some god damn money why else? to be famous? to be remembered? to have some sort of ever-lasting manifestion on earth? its not out of his benevolence; he is not providence. this whole whatever movement/book/movie/guy/omniscient being , whatever you want to equate it to, is based upon false intentions. he hasnt done anything except tell a lie to a bunch of idiots. its just a bunch of buzz words and generalized crap.

Did you read anything that I said?

I mean really… you have no supporting logic with your arguments at all. I could sit here all day saying YEAH VENUS PROJECT IS AWESOME!!! ANYONE WHO THINKS DIFFERENTLY IS RETARDED!!!! But thats not anyway to make a valid point now is it? How old are you dude? Because intellectually you sound like a 12 year old…

Grow up and make some intelligent points or gtfo.

if anything is possible, then that leaves there to be a possibility of something being impossible." is a paradox

Yeah I just replied to "But something to do can simply be nothing." because your example statement just contradicts itself.

"If everything is possible"… That ultimately means nothing is impossible, therefore leaving no possibilities of something being impossible, therefore no paradox… Therefore I was confused and simply disregarded your example statement xD.

I agree with the boredom aspect, but is it because of human nature? Or is it due to the fact that we have been conditioned to do these things?

I persoanlly think boredom is human nature. It encourages an organism to do something, to change its surroundings in a much more unpredictable manner than just physics and rocks forming.

Thus leads me to purpose of life. I beleive the purpose is to make change of the regular "events" of nature. Organism's purpose is pretty much to make things a little more interesting, more colourful through their varied physical and mental properties. Boredom encourages the organism to act one way or another, making that change. Thus, boredom becomes a natural aspect of humans and other organisms too.

From: mrpickle

I persoanlly think boredom is human nature. It encourages an organism to do something, to change its surroundings in a much more unpredictable manner than just physics and rocks forming.

Thus leads me to purpose of life. I beleive the purpose is to make change of the regular "events" of nature. Organism's purpose is pretty much to make things a little more interesting, more colourful through their varied physical and mental properties. Boredom encourages the organism to act one way or another, making that change. Thus, boredom becomes a natural aspect of humans and other organisms too.

Very interesting, I never looked at it that way. :)

I guess as long as we continue to educate ourselves as a species we can use that "boredom" for the benefit of the world instead of war and destruction…

I'd disagree about the purpose of life is to not be bored, although the purpose of life leads to excitement (usually). But whatever. :) (And I think think "Anything is possible" is a paradox. :p)

And I agree with gerauchert. Blackelvis you really haven't shown any sort of logical proof to your point. Not even past things that have been attempted to do like this that were really scams. That would make you sound more mature.

poop poop poop

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/douglas_adams_parrots_the_universe_and_everything.html

Just found this. It is a lecture by the late Douglas Adams (THHGTTG). Though not neccesarily directly related, it reveales profound insides about our time and place, wrapped in a hilareously funny and moving story. He puts things in a proper perspective IMHO. Takes 1 .5 hours, so you really need to sit down and listen.

From: WT-Fakawi
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/douglas_adams_parrots_the_universe_and_everything.html

Just found this. It is a lecture by the late Douglas Adams (THHGTTG). Though not neccesarily directly related, it reveales profound insides about our time and place, wrapped in a hilareously funny and moving story. He puts things in a proper perspective IMHO. Takes 1 .5 hours, so you really need to sit down and listen.

Thanks for sharing this! Amazing. :)

I Like the ideas behind it, but I don't ever see it working honestly. Looks good on paper, but in practice I think it'll flop as badly as Communism. Because we are human, and humans are greedy and self centered. "There is always that asshole who has more than you and rubs it in your face."

Trying not to do an epic gravedig, but the mechanics and properties of this project is so very insightful (finally did some indepth reading >.<). I'm also at the same time reading & watching part of the video @
http://www.pointbite.com/2008/10/08/zeitgeist-addendum-and-the-venus-project-hoax/

I'm going to be discussing about this in my english class today (since it's 1am xD), and use some pointers in this partiular thread posted last year as guidelines to engage the class with.

Anyways, TY so very much gerauchert for posting this up, and everyone who've discussed, with their hearts, about this.

From: mrpickle
Trying not to do an epic gravedig, but the mechanics and properties of this project is so very insightful (finally did some indepth reading >.<). I'm also at the same time reading & watching part of the video @
http://www.pointbite.com/2008/10/08/zeitgeist-addendum-and-the-venus-project-hoax/

I'm going to be discussing about this in my english class today (since it's 1am xD), and use some pointers in this partiular thread posted last year as guidelines to engage the class with.

Anyways, TY so very much gerauchert for posting this up, and everyone who've discussed, with their hearts, about this.

Np man, let me know how that discussion goes in your class. :)

I was relating it to shakespearian times.

The points I connected between The Venus Project and it are:
1600s: Most Powerful group/individuals were public figures. Controling.
Today: Most Powerful group/individuals are hidden figures. Controling.

1600s: Slavery existed, visible to public
Today: Slavery exists, "invisible" to public

1600: Government Most Powerful
Today: Corporations Most Powerful.


I started by playing a clip from a guy (dunno his name >.<) who talks about how man is brutal,violent, aggressive… and builds society along those lines. Discussed the meaning of that to the class (60% of whom are doing work from other classes).
- We are "evil" and we build a society around "evil".

Next I started going thru the clip and explaining it, especially the part about Modern Money Mechanics. At the same time, I'm also relating this to the Elizabethan Era. Every problem, issue, causes of concern highlighted in the past society is the same as today's.
Discussed
- Corporates vs kings vs presidents/primeministers/etc
- Economic Hitman vs assasins
- Slaves vs economic slaves
- debt
- interest
- "instant money"
- hidden tax.
- Benefit of a few.

By the end of the class, there was only one guy who wan't paying attention, he was sleeping. hehe, thick stuff for everyone in the morning.
Anyways, everything went very well. People weren't bored cuz I actually engaged them and asked for opinions. The most interesting thing that did happen:
Me: "What do you all think about slavery? Is it better, worse, the same as the past?"
Classmate:"Slavery is gone, well mostly. But in our democratic society, everyone is treated equally.".
Me: "Really? how equally?"
Classmate:"Well, we all have rights. Women gained rights, we can vote, we decide our future."

I told this particular person that they have not been exposed to reality yet. Then goes that "mind blowing" explination of "economic slavery vs traditional slaves"

Damn dude very nice. Glad it went well for ya. It takes some guts to talk about that stuff in class so props to ya bro :sasmokin:

thx man. It's easier when you get to do it as an assignment.