SRL Archive - Archive

Seems fairly obvious to me..

He is cool ya

Yeh

IRC is bleh

I thought he already was.

Guess not.

Why not

…who is ss23?

E: http://villavu.com/forum/member.php?u=5483 ?? I don't even know this guy :p

Unless you frequent IRC you probably wont lol. But he's intelligent, respectful, helpful…worth having in here.

From: marpis
…who is ss23?

E: http://villavu.com/forum/member.php?u=5483 ?? I don't even know this guy :p

Same here :D But by looking his posts he looks a nice guy :)

~Home

I honestly thought he already was SSRL, and that his title just wasn't changed..

Make him a IRC Admin then? or something, I honestly don't think someone should be able to get SSRL'ship by being active on IRC.

seems the main reason offered he should get in is "it's obvious", but I don't see it, can someone point it out to me?

He's helpful, mature, and generally a great person.

He already is an op on the irc and quite frankly is one of the non-biased ops there.

He doesn't have great scripting ability, but makes up for it in his maturity.

I thought he was made an op on the IRC because the staff wanted an op from the New Zealand/Australia area when Zeph started to become inactive (and he's the only one from that area that frequents the IRC much at all as far as I know)??

I thought that forums != IRC. And he doesn't contribute much at all here and barely ever even posts, so I don't see why he would need a higher rank at the forums just because he's active on IRC. Atleast until now people have been pretty strict about keeping IRC crap outside of the forums.

From: Method
I thought he was made an op on the IRC because the staff wanted an op from the New Zealand/Australia area when Zeph started to become inactive (and he's the only one from that area that frequents the IRC much at all as far as I know)??

I think that was the reason too.

No.

is there any links to stuff he's done? I dont know this guy so for me thats a no. but im holding my vote since i havent been too active in the past couple months

From: GoF
I thought that forums != IRC. And he doesn't contribute much at all here and barely ever even posts, so I don't see why he would need a higher rank at the forums just because he's active on IRC. Atleast until now people have been pretty strict about keeping IRC crap outside of the forums.



I think that was the reason too.

Pretty much summed up my thoughts on this.

agreed with GoF.
Canadaman: here is the post I was referred when questioning merit

From: Brain
agreed with GoF.
Canadaman: here is the post I was referred when questioning merit

I was asking for like stuff hes done. like with other people that are polled some links to like scripts, places they are helpful etc.

I know :)
e: it's what I was looking for when I asked earlier. You have asked more fully though.

Sup broads

nm blud u cuz bro?

No, that wouldn't fit into our current policies.

From: Wizzup?
No, that wouldn't fit into our current policies.

I don't understand.

Changing my vote to no, as I now see he's a bit of a fuckwit. Was having a conversation with him and GoF on IRC about the mohammed picture issue, he couldnt/didnt want to understand my views so he kbed me after about an hour of talking. Which I can personally understand…but not SSRL material. Maybe in a couple of years (imo)

From: Nava2
I don't understand.

OK. What scripts has he made? Has he made any useful posts? Did he do anything for SRL other than being a nice guy at times? Sure, he's cool for Simba, but he hasn't really coded a lot either there too.

From: Wizzup?
OK. What scripts has he made? Has he made any useful posts? Did he do anything for SRL other than being a nice guy at times? Sure, he's cool for Simba, but he hasn't really coded a lot either there too.

It's relieving to see that we still have staff; who can make decisions largely un-fazed by happenings on the IRC :thumbsup:.

I guess Wizzup doesnt want his follower's feelings hurt. You escape this round Naum :(

From: Naum
It's relieving to see that we still have staff; who can make decisions largely un-fazed by happenings on the IRC :thumbsup:.

I'm sorry, I was unaware that we weren't allowed to form our own opinions separate from Wizzup's.

From: Hobbit
I'm sorry, I was unaware that we weren't allowed to form our own opinions separate from Wizzup's.

I usually don't act like this; but go suck a d*ck. Seriously.

This is the most ridiculous SSRL application that I have ever seen, and you are all just voting yes cause he's a ``cool'' dude on IRC. I've told you before, and I will tell you once more, leave your feelings out of your decisions as staff member!
Plus, if I recall correctly, I thought you always said IRC and Forum should be separate? So why don't you enforce this now, you're being very inconsistent. But I guess it's probably that weird grudge of yours that made you post something like this. I had all the reason to delete that post the claw made. It was utterly offensive and completely against the rules. Unless you've made changes to the rules recently, I didn't know we were allowed to tell someone who and what voted in favour or against him, and especially not the reasons thereafter, as you can seriously harm someone's feelings with that. But if you think that is right, we could publicly talk about your poll for Administration ship…?

From: Wizzup?
I usually don't act like this; but go suck a d*ck. Seriously.

This is the most ridiculous SSRL application that I have ever seen, and you are all just voting yes cause he's a ``cool'' dude on IRC. I've told you before, and I will tell you once more, leave your feelings out of your decisions as staff member!
Plus, if I recall correctly, I thought you always said IRC and Forum should be separate? So why don't you enforce this now, you're being very inconsistent. But I guess it's probably that weird grudge of yours that made you post something like this. I had all the reason to delete that post the claw made. It was utterly offensive and completely against the rules. Unless you've made changes to the rules recently, I didn't know we were allowed to tell someone who and what voted in favour or against him, and especially not the reasons thereafter, as you can seriously harm someone's feelings with that. But if you think that is right, we could publicly talk about your poll for Administration ship…?

Point made, I don't think there will be a need to go any further than this?

Not so long ago, I was under the impression we had reached the conclusion of forum attitude is what counts, no matter what the outside attitude is. Although of course, outside attitude can reinforce the forums attitude.

I've removed my own vote from this application. I haven't seen any propper, recent forum material from ss23.

~RM

I don't think I had a chance to vote in this poll, but I would have voted no.

So are we just going to ignore how he had more yes's than no's?

From: Wizzup?
I usually don't act like this; but go suck a d*ck. Seriously.

This is the most ridiculous SSRL application that I have ever seen, and you are all just voting yes cause he's a ``cool'' dude on IRC. I've told you before, and I will tell you once more, leave your feelings out of your decisions as staff member!
Plus, if I recall correctly, I thought you always said IRC and Forum should be separate? So why don't you enforce this now, you're being very inconsistent. But I guess it's probably that weird grudge of yours that made you post something like this. I had all the reason to delete that post the claw made. It was utterly offensive and completely against the rules. Unless you've made changes to the rules recently, I didn't know we were allowed to tell someone who and what voted in favour or against him, and especially not the reasons thereafter, as you can seriously harm someone's feelings with that. But if you think that is right, we could publicly talk about your poll for Administration ship…?

I still believe IRC and forums should be separate.
I did not vote based on IRC, so please get off my back.
I have no grudge at all, it is you who call me emo in public channels.
I am not and have not argued your action on deleting claw's post, now have I?
Do what you feel you must but I have done nothing wrong.

From: Wizzup?
I usually don't act like this; but go suck a d*ck. Seriously.

This is the most ridiculous SSRL application that I have ever seen, and you are all just voting yes cause he's a ``cool'' dude on IRC. I've told you before, and I will tell you once more, leave your feelings out of your decisions as staff member!
Plus, if I recall correctly, I thought you always said IRC and Forum should be separate? So why don't you enforce this now, you're being very inconsistent. But I guess it's probably that weird grudge of yours that made you post something like this. I had all the reason to delete that post the claw made. It was utterly offensive and completely against the rules. Unless you've made changes to the rules recently, I didn't know we were allowed to tell someone who and what voted in favour or against him, and especially not the reasons thereafter, as you can seriously harm someone's feelings with that. But if you think that is right, we could publicly talk about your poll for Administration ship…?

My post was neccessary. Offensive, yes, but neccessary. I didnt say who voted, how many times they were polled, any specific reasons, or any real pertinant information, just that behaviour off the forum counts as much as behaviour on the forum as it all goes towards what type of person they are - because Naum seems to think otherwise, and wrapped up those thoughts in a big ego "i love wizzup and want to suck his dick and i think all other staff are stupid" post. So I wrapped up my point in an offensive way because it will transmit the message. You need to learn, sometimes someones feelings arent the most important thing…of course his feelings could of been hurt - for a good cause. If you see something, it can do more good to call it than not to call it - even though someone might be upset with you for a while. Why would his feelings have been hurt? Because what I said made a point that would of "hit home" to him. It was your own feelings, that of not wanting someone elses to get hurt even though neccessary, which made you delete my post.

Completely agaisnt the rules? You dont seem to mind that much when other people leak details, all I leaked was a reason, we've had people leak full polls, votes, posts, etc, and you reply with "=\" when I make a thread in mods. You're inconsistent to suit your own needs.

I see your points but don't agree with them. Naum, you failed hard again.

And Hobbit's post wasnt anything relevant to mine, so you kinda replied to the wrong person..lol. Hobbit didnt vote based on IRC, like the other people you mentioned who you thought naum was referring to, as Hobbit just stated.

Feel free to delete this post if it hurts your feelings :rolleyes:

I think this thread has gone very offtopic into something that has two choices:
1) start A new thread and fill in the SSRL population on the reasons etc why this is so heated.
2) Take it up in one of several boards you three have accesss to private from us.


Back to business, he has more yes than no, democratically this seems like an in. Oh and can someone check if method did infact vote?

From: Nava2
Back to business, he has more yes than no, democratically this seems like an in.

I thought you needed higher than slightly more yes's than no's (say 75%+ for example, I don't know what todays standards are.. for all I know now it's 61%+ like it is)?

Todays standards: Wizzup pretty much has final say on everything. Everything.
Someone got in in one of the more recent polls with less than 55%.
Makes me wanna change my vote back to yes just to see what happens

From: The Claw
Someone got in in one of the more recent polls with less than 55%.

Wasn't that RAM?

From: Hobbit
I still believe IRC and forums should be separate.
I did not vote based on IRC, so please get off my back.
I have no grudge at all, it is you who call me emo in public channels.
I am not and have not argued your action on deleting claw's post, now have I?
Do what you feel you must but I have done nothing wrong.

I see. So what did you base your vote on then? Wondering especially since he simply hasn't done anything except talking on IRC.

Also, you tell me to get off your back when you post this:

From: Hobbit
I'm sorry, I was unaware that we weren't allowed to form our own opinions separate from Wizzup's.

puzzles me.

Calling you emo? Those logs are from last year till right NOW.

~/irclogs/Rizon $ grep ' emo ' \#srl.log | grep Wizzup
15:28 <&Megan> Wizzup, nah, it's not relative. It's just the simple fact that I'm quite emo today :/
17:00 <~Wizzup> Megan: yay! and drop the emo stuff :D
17:05 <~Wizzup> Megan, actually your hair did look a bit emo previously
17:09 <~Wizzup> she's emo bro
14:54 <@ss23> Wizzup r emo kid naow
23:11 < R0b0t1> Wizzup: Lol, that's a song. I thought you had an emo moment.
23:11 <~Wizzup> I'm not emo bro
12:08 <~Wizzup> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2CwdNgOliU Is this emo music?
22:58 <&Megan> Wizzup, wut if I replaced u as #1 and put da emo to #2?

Yes, you have in fact attacked my action on deleting the post, see the post that I quoted in my previous post. At least, that is how I interpreted your post, and I felt strongly enough about my interpretation to take the bait. If this was indeed not your intention- which I seriously doubt -then I apologize.

@DanCardin: As of when is ``more yes than no'' a reason to let someone into SSRL? Have you (Claw && Nava as well) gone insane? Are you simply forgetting what the rules are? SSRL doesn't get in if it is a 51% percent vote, not even a SRL member gets in on that vote. Only if there's a _good_ reason, someone is allowed in. And only if most of the active staff agrees.

@The Claw: I cannot grasp what actual point you are trying to make. I don't think I am inconsistent, and upon reading the thread that I think you refer to (@bing inconsistent about leaks), I don't think I am inconsistent there either. Your post was not at all necessary, and, I will repeat myself, extremely offensive. If you were to discuss it, you should have posted this in the Moderator section. Simply abiding to the rules helps avoiding this kind of crap.

Zeph has been demodded for stuff you're doing right now, except you're taking it a step further by posting here, right in front for everybody to see it. According to how harsh you were at that time to Zeph, wouldn't it be a good idea to consider your current position, and how you would act against yourself? (No, this is not as threat, but this seems like an appropriate way to make you realise it)

What's wrong with (some of you) guys…

As far as i know, this is definitely not the lowest ratio that people have had and still gotten in. Also mentioning the SRL member entrance practices doesn't really mean anything since the two ranks do not nearly have the same requirements. If there are other requirements than simply having a high enough ratio of yes's to no's then why bother having us vote? If the end decision is ultimately up to the staff, then SSRL voting is, in general, merely a formality and pointless.

From: Dan Cardin
As far as i know, this is definitely not the lowest ratio that people have had and still gotten in. Also mentioning the SRL member entrance practices doesn't really mean anything since the two ranks do not nearly have the same requirements. If there are other requirements than simply having a high enough ratio of yes's to no's then why bother having us vote? If the end decision is ultimately up to the staff, then SSRL voting is, in general, merely a formality and pointless.

Not necessarily. How many people get more 'No's then yes' and still get let in? None that I've seen. Therefor, at the very least, SSRL voting would be to get SSRL's general opinion on the person and then ultimately let the staff decide.

There has been a certain air of lacking the respect of those who the staff call `senior members'.

The claw, you definitely didn't need to post that here, just saying.

Wizzup, perhaps rather than turning saying these people's opinions are invalid, since they are persisting, perhaps you need to take a look at the options and perhaps shift your paradigm. As much as I do believe you do a great job around here, I do think you don't allow people to help as much as they could. You seem to take your opinion over everyone elses, when they should (most likely) be valued at the same value. No, I'm not trying to blast, or say I would do better, but I do think you need to pull the wool from your eyes and let some other people have a say.

:/

From: Nava2
There has been a certain air of lacking the respect of those who the staff call `senior members'.

The claw, you definitely didn't need to post that here, just saying.

We actually do base our actions on the votes, it's just that we think the staff's votes are a little more important. So, with cases like these, it usually comes down to the staff's votes. With Naum, 5/5 admins voted yes and there were twice as much voters. Here, we also have a little yes-majority, but the staff's votes are scattered so the current stand is probably not good enough.

Yes, IRC should be kept separate from the forums. Of course it can help you form an opinion, but it would be nice if you could ground it (maybe with an example?) so we can form our own opinions too.

And could you elaborate a bit on the lack of respect bit? We can't change it unless you say what we do wrong.

Zeph has been demodded for stuff you're doing right now, except you're taking it a step further by posting here, right in front for everybody to see it. According to how harsh you were at that time to Zeph, wouldn't it be a good idea to consider your current position, and how you would act against yourself? (No, this is not as threat, but this seems like an appropriate way to make you realise it)

Zeph was demodded for leaking whole threads and info to JAD while he was being polled, which caused JAD to rage-quit and cause a shitstorm because his ego couldnt deal with not being accepted as a mod/people picking up on and talking about his flaws. Then Zeph posted a screenshot of someone being polled again, after he had already been demodded for pretty much the exact same thing, in the public forum, for EVERYONE to see - and nothing happened. Thats what I meant by inconsistency - it doesnt seem rules matter much, the only thing that matter is how much of a shitstorm the leaks/actions cause. You've probably told people they were being polled for a higher section, its neccessary and its at your discretion to do so. Except the people you tell are probably people who can handle dissapointment (the evidence of this is no one has ever raged at not getting into a section and said "Wizzup told me!!!!"), and even then you probably dont leak any specifics. Just like I didn't.

I merely pointed out someones behaviour and said it was behaviour like that which kept people out of SSRL. I agree my post was offensive though, probably more offensive than needed I guess. But its not offensive as in needless swear words or anything - its offensive because it hurts someones feelings, therefore meaning that person messed up and I called them out on it - which to me, is more important than someone's ego. Not to make myself feel good or anything, because I get no pleasure from raging. Perhaps we disagree…but I'm playing a larger game than just trying to make people happy. Might not be my place to do that, though, considering the shit it's caused now.

I dont know how I would handle myself, as I can't fully understand the effect I have on people.

I don't really see how I'm leaking anything, though (correct me if I'm wrong guys, honestly) - most of the stuff I'm saying is pretty common knowledge and causes little to no damage..at most I'm leaking information I think should be transparent anyway (like below), and in response to your posts, not information which has the potential to make people full on rage and quit the forums like Zeph did to JAD, and then to noidea I believe it was (in public forums)…I havent said anything specific to people, I havent mentioned any names or linked any statistics to any one person. Apart from that one post in response to something I took personally (which I shouldnt have even though it was partially an attack on me), even then it wasnt leaking anything pertinant - just stating a fact.

SSRL doesn't get in if it is a 51% percent vote, not even a SRL member gets in on that vote.

But people get in SSRL with a 53% vote, dont believe me then check the deleted threads. I do agree thats not the way it should be - it should be a clear majority of yes votes. I was just making another point about inconsistency because I'm predicting ss23 won't get in.

From: nielsie95
We actually do base our actions on the votes, it's just that we think the staff's votes are a little more important. So, with cases like these, it usually comes down to the staff's votes. With Naum, 5/5 admins voted yes and there were twice as much voters. Here, we also have a little yes-majority, but the staff's votes are scattered so the current stand is probably not good enough.

Yes, IRC should be kept separate from the forums. Of course it can help you form an opinion, but it would be nice if you could ground it (maybe with an example?) so we can form our own opinions too.

And could you elaborate a bit on the lack of respect bit? We can't change it unless you say what we do wrong.

The fact that 5 admins opinion vs SSRL is worth more… :|

Also, the poll about noidea that Zeph leaked.. it was a joke. IIRC, there wasn't even a poll…

From: Nava2
The fact that 5 admins opinion vs SSRL is worth more… :|

Also, the poll about noidea that Zeph leaked.. it was a joke. IIRC, there wasn't even a poll…

The fact that there was a majority and all admins agreed is worth more than a minority of SSRL members, yes.

Uh have you even looked at the noidea thread? Its not a poll, its a joke thread that Nava made when he was bored on IRC. I never even said it was a poll. I just took a screenshot of that thread title and blacked out everything else. It was then you who went ahead and told the rest the forum "oh why you leaking dev polls?" Seriously, wtf?

My mistake on that one. Sorry. Would of helped if someone posted earlier (in mods for example) it was a joke, though. Not really a funny joke either, playing with people like that.

Also, I told noidea I was polling him for dev, as a joke. If you read the post, it *clearly* shows it was a joke.

I must agree that admins opinions should be taken more heavily for obvious reasons.

As long as they don't completely overturn thing's we vote on then I don't really see means for a complaint.

Example: we all vote no, admins say yes and let him in anyways.

From: Nava2
You seem to take your opinion over everyone elses, when they should (most likely) be valued at the same value. No, I'm not trying to blast, or say I would do better, but I do think you need to pull the wool from your eyes and let some other people have a say.

:/

I fail to see how I'm not letting other people have a say. Did I close the thread? Did I close the poll? Did I say "No, ss23 will NOT get in?". I did none of this. I simply stated my opinion + deleted an offensive post by The Claw. (I typed kz just now…)

From: The Claw
But people get in SSRL with a 53% vote, dont believe me then check the deleted threads. I do agree thats not the way it should be - it should be a clear majority of yes votes. I was just making another point about inconsistency because I'm predicting ss23 won't get in.

There are probably exceptions, but usually those cases are very debatable and the end conclusion differs from the poll results. Furthermore, I don't think you can relate those to specific cases directly, especially not if I did not ``handle'' them.

@ManFlardin: I don't see how the staff having more voting power / final votes renders these polls pointless. There are plenty of reasons to have these polls, and only rarely the final decision is different from the poll outcome, which means the system works.

Anyway I'm running out of laptop battery. ;)

He's got a point, I don't even see him making posts at SRL let alone contributions.

From: IceFire908
He's got a point, I don't even see him making posts at SRL let alone contributions.

This is evidence that I (and canadaman) asked for earlier. With Dragss111, proof could easily be found by quoting his posts of contributions to the forums and all the work he's done on reflection. With ss23, I haven't seen any proof other than "it's obvious", and "he's cool", and then canadaman asked for links, the thread died off, and it was ignored when the thread was revived.

From: Brain
This is evidence that I (and canadaman) asked for earlier. With Dragss111, proof could easily be found by quoting his posts of contributions to the forums and all the work he's done on reflection. With ss23, I haven't seen any proof other than "it's obvious", and "he's cool", and then canadaman asked for links, the thread died off, and it was ignored when the thread was revived.

No offense, but you are a prime example… where are your scripts?

not everything is about scripts.

From a glance at his cups you can pretty much guess what was said in his SSRL poll.

~RM

Nava: I'm sorry, I didn't know this thread was ME defending OTHER peoples' choices to elect me into this membership.

Also, way to avoid the question/point…

E: also, I didn't ask for "post his scripts!" I asked for examples of contributions.

I don't particularly see why staff's opinions should matter more. What qualifications do any of you have that make you staff? Yes, it's "your" forums depending on who is reading this, but it doesn't make your opinion any more valid. It makes you more able to exert power and force your opinion to be more hefty, but being staff doesn't mean you're more intelligent or reliable or whatever than other non-staff people. Although, i personally do value some of your opinions more highly than others, that is equally true with some non staff compared to some of the staff members; again rank is not an indicator of how intelligent (or whatever you want to call it) you are that would make your opinion more important.

Thus, if you want the verdict to be based on the public opinion, then you should count your own votes as regularly powerful (while ultimately, i guess you can do whatever you want) and just not vote whoever it is to go up another rank, because then you will, more fairly, have the power to do so.

hope i made myself clear.

From: Brain
Nava: I'm sorry, I didn't know this thread was ME defending OTHER peoples' choices to elect me into this membership.

Also, way to avoid the question/point…

E: also, I didn't ask for "post his scripts!" I asked for examples of contributions.

EEEK! NOT WHAT I MEANT!

I meant you are an example, irrelivent of your post. :< I didn't actually read it, I apologize. I was just pointing out that you got into SSRL, without scripts, but got in with your attitude and stuff.

From: Dan Cardin
I don't particularly see why staff's opinions should matter more. What qualifications do any of you have that make you staff? Yes, it's "your" forums depending on who is reading this, but it doesn't make your opinion any more valid. It makes you more able to exert power and force your opinion to be more hefty, but being staff doesn't mean you're more intelligent or reliable or whatever than other non-staff people. Although, i personally do value some of your opinions more highly than others, that is equally true with some non staff compared to some of the staff members; again rank is not an indicator of how intelligent (or whatever you want to call it) you are that would make your opinion more important.

Thus, if you want the verdict to be based on the public opinion, then you should count your own votes as regularly powerful (while ultimately, i guess you can do whatever you want) and just not vote whoever it is to go up another rank, because then you will, more fairly, have the power to do so.

hope i made myself clear.

All of this seems to be based on the fact that staff is chosen randomly. That fact is wrong.

~RM

Staff isn't chosen randomly, but staff is chosen by people that were chosen by random people who started the forum. You might have the best intentions and think that because you have a higher rank can see the bigger picture, but it does not make your opinion any more valid especially for this particular rank.

So you're saying the random people who started this forum should not have more saying to what happens to it than the people who join the forum? Of course they choose people who have a similar vision to lead the forums.

If the public's point of view differs too much from the staff's point of view, you could say the staff isn't good or you could say the public isn't good. If suddenly we got a lot of regular RS players joining our forums saying we should stop autoing, we don't just stop autoing. In my point of view, we're more of a company than a country, if you know what I mean :)

From: Dan Cardin
Staff isn't chosen randomly, but staff is chosen by people that were chosen by random people who started the forum. You might have the best intentions and think that because you have a higher rank can see the bigger picture, but it does not make your opinion any more valid especially for this particular rank.

In that case it would probably be a good idea to assume whoever started the forum is not random on this particular forum. People with a higher rank usually see the bigger picture, as they also have more information. I think their opinions do weight more in the end process. It doesn't make them more _valid_, but they are considered more carefully.

All opinions should be considered equally, regardless of rank - its just the staff who can like Wizzup said see a larger picture. And if someone's opinions are good, then they become staff. This doesn't mean that they should then disregard other's opinions of lower rank though just because they're of higher rank, which is what I think some people feel is happening.

In general, staff should have the clarity to recognise a good opinion when they see one, and not think "oh theyre just a lower rank, I'll disregard them". In the close ones though, it does come down to the staff more than the other users because they have proven themselves to have a good view of things in the past. Recognition through merit.

So you're saying the random people who started this forum should not have more saying to what happens to it than the people who join the forum?

ultimately they do because they are admins and such and there's nothing we can do about it. But i do not think so no and is that how you want to run the forums?. The forums are generally run in a way that would lead me to believe that you admin-types want to have a democratic type atmosphere. It generally works fine and everyone gets what they want. But in times like this, the people that you elected to be considered senior ranked people don't have as much power of decision. If this rank was intended to elevate those people that you thought ought to be senior, and you give them the power to hand out infractions and such, then i don't see why their opinions would be any less valid.

Who would be the best people to choose who becomes a dev? probably more devs. I mean, yeah, admins can vote, but if they aren't actively developing then what gives them more initiative to do so? I find it to be a similar case here. SSRL doesn't particularly add too much power that an admin ought to be worried about who gets in. If the people that are already in this rank agree that they should be allowed, then that ought to be the determinant. If you upper-types don't feel that they have good qualities, then just don't allow them into your upper-type rank. I just don't see the point of breaking from the usually good ness for something such as this.

Even in Rome before the Roman empire consuls had the power to veto decisions. Just simply because consuls were the ones who had to see the big picture. Just saw "The People's" representative could veto decisions.

We've been working pretty much the same way.
"Powerful" people have always had a stronger vote. Back then it was because they bought votes, were owned favours, friendships, trade agreements, people in debt and so on. And it has worked for centuries.

I agree with opinions being heard, whomever these opinions might belong to. Otherwise it would be pointless to have these polls. However, I don't think that everyone's opinion should influence a decision as much as anyone else's. I don't see Devs and JMs scripting anti-randoms side by side. Devs have the bigger picture and knowledge.

Staff is not here just to 'keep everything running'. Staff is here to take things further. So it's natural that we'd need a bigger influence on decisions, otherwise we'd never be able to move forward on whatever 'path' we have chosen to follow.

Staff is of course bound to make mistakes, sooner or later. Then again that's the whole point of asking for your opinions. By doing so, we get more smart people considering a decision and therefore are likely to get more points of view and consider things that hadn't crossed our mind.

However, if the staff wants SSRL to be a rank of active, contributing, etc people, then it is not unexpected that a poll to bring someone who does not match such criteria would be vetoed.

Do notice that you rarely see a veto. Yes, some people might get into SSRL with 55% or 85%, but either way that was still a positive poll.

This time, you do indeed have somewhat of a veto. Although Wizzup pointing us in a certain direction rang several bells, my own being one of them.

~RM

Wait a minute, shouldn't this be about ss23's eligibility to be omitted into seniors and not all this other crap the past ~2 pages have been rambling about?

SRL has never aimed to be a popularity contest where whoever gets the most public approval gets the most say, forum decisions have always been guided on logic (whether it was faulty logic or not) it was still logic.

By saying, "Hey disregard this you sucks cocks" because more people voted for a guy with out being able to even simply defend their view with actual an actual point and not a novel about SRL's forum integrity, then, personally, I don't see how it makes sense to say "Ok, does it matter if it isn't right? More people said yes than no" even though those who said 'yes' couldn't provide a single relevant post about ss23, and not about anything and everything else.

The bottom line is, there should be basic requirements people need to meet before being omitted into a group, and if these basic requirements are ignored by the majority against the wishes of a minority then you have, what I believe SSRL has always been as a result.

A pointless popularity contest.

To get back on topic, I don't see why ss23 is any different than say Brain.

Did anyone actually *lookup* his posts? Most of which are useful, aside from the fun ones in the feet category. I don't see why there is a double standard here. More so, he is mature on IRC, and is contributing there. While he may not be *insanely* active in posting, he posts mature posts, that are constructive to the thread at hand. Sadly, I can't say that about many of the people on this thread.

So, why a no? He is active on the forum, as far as lurking is concerned, is very active in the IRC as a positive role model, when he does post, he posts well, and on-topic posts. Lastly, he is very helpful to anyone with problems while on the IRC.

No, he doesn't script, but neither do *most* of this group.

From: Nava2
To get back on topic, I don't see why ss23 is any different than say Brain.

Did anyone actually *lookup* his posts? Most of which are useful, aside from the fun ones in the feet category. I don't see why there is a double standard here. More so, he is mature on IRC, and is contributing there. While he may not be *insanely* active in posting, he posts mature posts, that are constructive to the thread at hand. Sadly, I can't say that about many of the people on this thread.

So, why a no? He is active on the forum, as far as lurking is concerned, is very active in the IRC as a positive role model, when he does post, he posts well, and on-topic posts. Lastly, he is very helpful to anyone with problems while on the IRC.

No, he doesn't script, but neither do *most* of this group.

In that case, let us look at the first page of the ``Find All Posts by'' page. (http://villavu.com/forum/search.php?do=finduser&u=5483)

http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?p=711189#post711189
There are two more in that thread. Well, it obviously isn't the most mature thread…

Second page:
http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?p=677423#post677423
http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?p=682885#post682885
http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?p=677415#post677415
http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?p=677402#post677402
http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?p=677393#post677393
http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?p=677384#post677384
http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?p=677387#post677387
http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?p=677390#post677390
http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?p=677337#post677337
http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?p=695397#post695397

Need I go on?

Quite frankly, this tells me enough:

From: marpis
…who is ss23?

E: http://villavu.com/forum/member.php?u=5483 ?? I don't even know this guy :p

From: The Claw
Unless you frequent IRC you probably wont lol. But he's intelligent, respectful, helpful…worth having in here.

Why didn't you post some links?

From what I can see, he's not very active at the forums (174 posts since 2007) and from the first 2 pages of his posts I'd say half of them isn't worth reading. On the other hand, the rest of the posts are indeed helpful and usually contributing.

http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56444
http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?p=706606

Are the most useful posts in my eyes, but is it enough? You're right that he looks like smart guy, but what can he mean for SSRL? You might want to try to convince us a little bit more instead of just comparing him with people and telling us how nice he is on IRC.

I like the fact that he's already using git :rolleyes:

~RM

well after looking at most of his posts, i would be voting no if the poll was still open. I dont go on IRC and from the posts i looked at they were not extremely helpful. a few of them were but some were like "im not a mod, i cant help" which helps no one.