SRL Archive - News and General

One of my players got banned because he was reported.

This player has been member for four months. It is my test account for other player with skillcapes. He is reasonably rich: full Dragon, 30mil and lots of goodies/gems/etc at the bank. His stats where reasonably ok:

Thieving 95, Hunting 78, Atk/Str/Def 75 and Herblore, Magic, Crafting and Mining all well above 60+.

I have succesfully developed a couple of scripts with this particular player: Masterfarmer, Safecrackers, Kebbit Catchers, Herblore, High Alchers, Experiments fighters and a couple of other test scripts.

Now: here is my point. This Player should have been banned a looooong time ago, because -and ouch in no particular order-

1. He has spent one night trying to catch kebbits without a falcon.
2. He has spent some hours happily back and forth switching Tabs because of a loop in an early high alcher.
3. He has clicked a couple of hours on Experiments Level 51 with the key in its inventory.
4. He has spent some hours withdrawing and banking one Vial and one Herb from the bank and doing some utterly weird stuff with them.
5. Script had the mouse pointer right on one pixel of the birdtrap for hours and hours at a row.
6. Has spent at least four hours cracking one safe, to go bank, depositall, withdraw 10 lobsters, crack one safe ad infinitum.
7. And not to mention all the suspicious back and forth movements as I dig myself a way into a runescape script. Anyone that has done a complex script gets the picture: you need a dummy to test. This was my dummy.
8. Ooow, and he had all banned bots (40 +) on his friendslist too.

So there is an overwhelming amount of "evidence" supporting the fact that this is beyond any doubt…..a bot.

But Jagex never discovered this. Not in any of their fancy algorithms was there one tiny bell tinkling. "Hello! Bot pounding on your doors!" Nope. Nothing wrong with this player. Green zone all the way. As long as he pays his bills.


So why wasn't it banned?

Simple. It was never reported. It had been in the green zone since one day before its ban. I happen to check! It was reported that night running Experiments. I sadly have no evidence of that (I'll come to that later) other than him running away from legits too many times as recorded by my script. Sure it was reported wearing full Dragon… 0_o. Anyway, the next morning (maybe 6 hours after the Experiment run) i was perm banned for macroing. There is a true causality here. Reporting instantly invoked BAN!BAN!BAN!BAN!. So I was banned instantly, all automatic, very convenient. I appealed denying all and was almost instantly automatically replied with forget it. Banned for macroing. No shit Sherlock.

I recently started a thread about the parameters for banning @ Mopar's and the conclusion -as confirmed by various major players in the cheating scene- is indeed: reporting. It is the key that triggers the banning mechanism. There are of course other factors, but those are all taken care of by SRL.


So what can be done about it?

Couple of things come to mind:

• Chat Logging. form now on I wont script without logging. It used to be in my old SRL, but it kinda got obsoleted. Chat On and log.
• Responding. Ol' Man Fawki says: "A response a day keeps the ban away".
• Monitoring surroundings. How many players are around, how close and for how long have they been here? Take appropriate action (logging out)
• Report the silly old goose that has reported you.

Please keep this info here and do not copy this to public boards please for obvious reasons.

*Removed*

Macro at places that no one goes, like bank in pvp world ..etc

From: WT-Fakawi

Please keep this info here and do not copy this to public boards please for obvious reasons.

Jagex will very likely have an SRL Member as part of their staff, no?

Anyway about the whole reporting; Zyt3x made an AI auto-responder.

Sure, it sometimes gave weird replies, but sound enough to remain unnoticed as a bot.

Someone: WCing level?
AI: What do you care?

Also, mix the AI with some custom made responses (somewhat like old devs' responder) and you have something very human-like.

~RM

Yeah, I guess now I can't alot of those stuff I said any more :(

*Stares at jagex*

Could you link to the thread please? Might be an interesting read ;).

Very, very interesting post Fawki. I know at mopar, there are many people that enjoy searching the client's code. Was the reporting –> ban 'mechanism' you were talking about found within?

This is why I only auto my good acc's in their POH ;) con and tabs

Same thing happened a while ago to my char.

I once auto'd 24 hours in a row for a couple of days in a week with my cow killer in the summer. I don't think I was reported… the account is still alive today.

Also, when I was testing a function for my cow killer in SMART, a guy asked if I was an auto… and you know SMART, I couldn't talk in time so I got reported and banned. Then I submitted an appeal and it got accepted…

I found out that reporting is key a long time ago.

My thought on this was, report -> system flags and immediately checks last few minutes of play time to see what you were doing. If it proves to be a bot type situation, then ban… Which I thought was totally retarded.

A friend of mine has botted on his main account but then stopped (no bans involved). Then one day not botting for awhile he got banned for botting and he had been playing legit for at least a couple weeks, doing quests etc. He sent in an appeal and it was accepted. Losing 6ish or more days in the process of play time? Being members he lost approximately $1…

I don't really like the system, its horrible if this is the case. Ban now, discuss later kind of mentality.

I fletched on an older account for no more than ever 5 hours at a time, never overnight, always watching it. It was banned after like, 5 days.

No one reports a person fletching at a bank, unless there was some extremely strange circumstance.

I think failing randoms does have a portion to do with the banning process, and they notice this. I can say that because I did get a lot of plants at the bank, and I remember it attacking me until I noticed and ran away.

I think you have discovered a huge piece of the puzzle though ;)

There are several "give-aways" that Jagex looks into. But, as you said, SRL eliminates most issues. Clicking the same pixel or color repeatedly is an auto-ban.

I would agree with Ejjman. Failing too many randoms, getting reported, others, prompt Jagex to check your game history. You can sit in the same spot for hours and hours, as I have done plenty of times in the past, and you won't get banned unless one of these conditions is met.

There's no hope!

Making your player look legit in Full Dragon doesn't work!

And it's not possible to create a 100% working and believable AI responder ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test )

[jokes]
Everyone delete all of your scripts and find a new game![/jokes]

And yeah, why put this in the members section, its fairly public, so all macro haters are going to go on reports sprees now! :/

Makes sense…thats why I auto in a phat ;)

From: The Claw
Makes sense…thats why I auto in a phat ;)

Killing green drags next to clanwars, ofcourse :rolleyes:

Good stuff WT-Fakawi and others so far… as this may be true, I have gotten banned on an account that I never macro on. That was a sad day for me…

From: mastaraymond
Could you link to the thread please? Might be an interesting read ;).

It is, but I am afraid you are not allowed to view it…

http://www.moparisthebest.com/smf/index.php/topic,422141.0.html

Hmmm, still doesn't explain why I was never banned for autoing my way to 99 wc (I was reported at least twice).

From: WT-Fakawi
Report the silly old goose that has reported you.

For what?

From: Quickmarch
Hmmm, still doesn't explain why I was never banned for autoing my way to 99 wc (I was reported at least twice).

There was nothing questionable about your recent gameplay?

From: cycrosism
For what?

Because that's what other players do.

Player1: "I reported you."
Player2: "Alright, then, I will report you aswell."
Add some typing errors, leetspeak and exclamation marks, and you got a perfect runescape example.

From: Rasta Magician
Anyway about the whole reporting; Zyt3x made an AI auto-responder.

Sure, it sometimes gave weird replies, but sound enough to remain unnoticed as a bot.

Also, mix the AI with some custom made responses (somewhat like old devs' responder) and you have something very human-like.

~RM

I actually use that AI-Bot a lot in my scripts. I have set it up to be triggered by nickname and it works surprisingly well :)
I am sure it has kept me from getting a ban at least one time (I watched while a guy talked to my test account: level 3, default clothes, powercutting willow).
Only downside is that the AI Bot I currently are connected to sometimes say things like "My master would like to know how much you like this AI Bot" which is, obviously, not good at all. Simple solution is to add a 'blacklist'.

I have always though that respondering is the best anti-ban. Imho I think it's a shame that SRL doesn't have it's own autoresponder (at least available to the public).

The best would to be able to connect to a really clever bot like cleverbot and add custom responses

From: Town
There was nothing questionable about your recent gameplay?

There had been times when I got back to the computer and my account was just repeatedly clicking the inv tab…

I think an auto responder would be a great input into stopping this.

Clever bot is just annoying, I also like the idea of reporting people that say they reported you.

That way, you can report for abuse of the report system.

(I've gotten someone b& that way.)

From: Quickmarch
There had been times when I got back to the computer and my account was just repeatedly clicking the inv tab…

Why would someone report you for clicking the inventory tab?

From: Town
Why would someone report you for clicking the inventory tab?

He must have a spy in his house O.o check the closet man!

From: bionicle1800
This is why I only auto my good acc's in their POH ;) con and tabs

Then maybe personalized spaces are a new way to auto? I'm thinking solo dungeoneering (or go with your army as a group). I know it would be almost impossible to scan those rooms but it's an interesting thought if someone could find an efficient way to gain xp.

From: Rasta Magician
Jagex will very likely have an SRL Member as part of their staff, no?

Anyway about the whole reporting; Zyt3x made an AI auto-responder.

Sure, it sometimes gave weird replies, but sound enough to remain unnoticed as a bot.



Also, mix the AI with some custom made responses (somewhat like old devs' responder) and you have something very human-like.

~RM

that might just start a massive convo, where as "52" would stop all convos

From: jakeyboy29
that might just start a massive convo, where as "52" would stop all convos

Doesn't matter, does it? Plus, consider the entire post ;)

~RM

From: Town
Why would someone report you for clicking the inventory tab?

They reported me for not responding while I was botting… My question is, if they banned you on reports alone, why was I not banned? You said because I never did anything suspicious, hence why I posted my responce…

Perhaps some a markov chain AI bot could be written. Now it would have to be 'trained' in the same way you have to train an email spam filter, this could easily be done by having a player standing around a mining place for ages.

If you want to try a real life example, go to the #mopar channel on irc.moparisthebest.com and talk to the user smacktard who is a markov chain irc bot. His chains have been trained by the moparisthebest irc channel so he can be pretty vulgar. Some of his more colourful responces are documented http://www.moparisthebest.com/smf/index.php/topic,432717.0.html

the code is hosted on http://code.google.com/p/seeborg/ I've downloaded it and am running it in the #srl irc channel as we speak

perhaps it could be converted to a plugin.

From: Yakman
Perhaps some a markov chain AI bot could be written. Now it would have to be 'trained' in the same way you have to train an email spam filter, this could easily be done by having a player standing around a mining place for ages.

If you want to try a real life example, go to the #mopar channel on irc.moparisthebest.com and talk to the user smacktard who is a markov chain irc bot. His chains have been trained by the moparisthebest irc channel so he can be pretty vulgar. Some of his more colourful responces are documented http://www.moparisthebest.com/smf/index.php/topic,432717.0.html

the code is hosted on http://code.google.com/p/seeborg/ I've downloaded it and am running it in the #srl irc channel as we speak

perhaps it could be converted to a plugin.

Very interesting indeed :cartman:

From: mastaraymond
Very interesting indeed :cartman:

PyBorg ftw!

I really like that idea. Perhaps we could write something up to run while legits do certain tasks, then just log all the conversations.

I mean, the building of the library is cool, but idk how great it would be..

We could set it up so that the database is stored on a server, and have moderators who can check any invalid (inapplicable) text that is found.

I remember asking Craig` to make one of those IRC AI bots.. I don't think he took me seriously :p

IRC AI Bot is easy to use with SCAR so I think that would work out pretty good..

EDIT: We should make a new thread where we discuss this bot imo

I disagree with having a central database for everyone, I'm in favour of everyone training their own responder, and possibly trading word lists between their friends.

From: Yakman
I disagree with having a central database for everyone, I'm in favour of everyone training their own responder, and possibly trading word lists between their friends.

I agree. With a central server, every one would be using the same list :duh: BAN BAN BAN BAN

Actually using the same list doesn't mean we all have the same responses, since responses depend on the input (and some randomness possibly, I'm not sure) but the responses would be similar.

As some people keep chatlogs of rs speak, they could just use them to teach the bot. But you might want to check they dont contain any swear words or things that could get your banned for offensive language!


As the bot now works on irc, you give it a probability that it will reply for any sentance, another probability that it will reply when its nick is mentioned and a third for when a set of 'magic words' which you can choose are mentioned.
I'm not sure that will be suitable for rs because in a crowded area there wont be any point responding often to talking, but with only one other person there it will be important.
So I recommend, trying to count the number of players on the minimap (doesn't have to be very accurate) then applying that number to a formula where the probability goes down as the number of players goes up. Something like P = e^-rn where n is the number of players, r is some constant to be chosen and P is the probability.

Of course the probability of talking when its name (or nick) is mentioned would be much higher.
Also the magic words could be set to "mining", "woodcutting" or whatever the script is doing at that moment, with a higher probability of replying.

I'm still waiting for the day A.I.s can interact and live amongst humans physically or not.

One thing to keep in mind if you create an auto responder is the fact that some people might bot around you with the same auto responder, resulting in a neverending chat, probably same words over and over again.

This might be a good place to re-mention my idea for a bot that connects to IRC. You use probability to decide if the bot will respond to something, and if the script decides it should, it sends the message to IRC. Then someone in the IRC channel can respond directly in IRC and it gets relayed back. Its quite complicated which i quite like and it relies on the community to support the community which i also like. Each player would have its own IRC user so simply highlighting it would send the message to RS which means you don't only have to respond to what people say to you, and if you private message the bot, it will show you everything that's being said in RS if you need a more detailed log of what was said.

If no one likes that, i do like the idea of a learning bot. I think however, there might want to be a "base" that anyone can start with that already has some general things that most SRL scripts would want to know, then after that, the individual users can teach their own variations. Saves time and saves from everyone repeating the same mundane speakings.

From: Dr D. Dervish
One thing to keep in mind if you create an auto responder is the fact that some people might bot around you with the same auto responder, resulting in a neverending chat, probably same words over and over again.

75-99% chance of answering will take care of that :)

+1 for cleverbot..

me:aaasd
bot:What?
me:u no
bot:Know I don't.
me:you are sweomse
bot:So are you.

Personally I think auto responders are not a big deal, but if some people really wanted the most human like responder, they could make a system that tricks players into talking with each other. This way half the bots would be responding, and the other half actually start conversations. However names and levels etc would have to be detected and replaced, and it would have to take care to only start conversations with players not likely to be a bot. Check out 'derren brown chess' on youtube :p

In the Mopar thread semaphore tosses a very nice idea he has already implemented: idle after report. Since the last 60 seconds are send to jagex when you are reported, he keeps his bots idle for at least 60 seconds after being reported, thus making sure no botlike info is sent to their servers.

Sounds like a good idea to me and is easy to implement I guess.

From: WT-Fakawi
In the Mopar thread semaphore tosses a very nice idea he has already implemented: idle after report. Since the last 60 seconds are send to jagex when you are reported, he keeps his bots idle for at least 60 seconds after being reported, thus making sure no botlike info is sent to their servers.

Sounds like a good idea to me and is easy to implement I guess.

I thought it sent the 60 seconds preceding the report, not following?

Example: You get scammed and report the player. If the scammer idles for 60 seconds that wouldn't hide the fact that he scammed you 60 seconds ago.

I sent a e-mail to cleverbot and asked if there was any .php versions of the bot, and the answer I got was "yes, but it's not free"…

From: Tim0suprem0
I thought it sent the 60 seconds preceding the report, not following?

Example: You get scammed and report the player. If the scammer idles for 60 seconds that wouldn't hide the fact that he scammed you 60 seconds ago.

Hmm, well yes, that sounds logical :D in that case idling would be of no use….

Testing this theory out atm, not willingly though…phat account got stuck in a random trying to click teleport, when that tab wasnt even there, for 3-4 hours…oops lol.

How 'd you detect being reported in the first place?

Chatlogs