SRL Archive - General

Don't take this too seriously… I just want to taunt you guys a bit, evoke some reactions.

It seems to me MSI is full of wonderful scripters, and they are producing great results. Every single one of them was totally in for Simba, the new project.
They were all sick of SCAR, and its frequent crashes. AFAIK every MSI member has access to the Simba section. So why isn't Simba being used for your projects?

The only one who has given any Simba support ATM is Coh3n. :thumbsup:

So… Why not is my question? Hopefully Simba will be released in a week. (Alpha/Beta at least) At least some support would be nice.
Is it not usable? Are you not interested? Does SRL 4 not work correctly?

IMO releasing only a SCAR version is a weird move, especially from the ``higher'' ranks.

Wizzup wonders…

For the same reason we are not using git…
Before we actually make any huge changes to the product, we want to show people that MSI can actually work, as it has failed many times before.

A good move from SIMBA developers would also be to make a simple thread with the several steps to convert a scar script to a simba script.

~RM

From: Rasta Magician
For the same reason we are not using git…
Before we actually make any huge changes to the product, we want to show people that MSI can actually work, as it has failed many times before.

A good move from SIMBA developers would also be to make a simple thread with the several steps to convert a scar script to a simba script.

~RM

Like this?
http://villavu.com/wiki/index.php/Make_your_Scar_script_work_in_Simba

You guys should also feel like you are Simba developer; that's kind of the point. You don't have to do all of the coding, but I was expecting at least some work on your sides too. Be it extensively testing, writing documentation, ranting on me and raymond because our code doesn't work, etc. Or just writing a script.

From: Wizzup?
Like this?
http://villavu.com/wiki/index.php/Make_your_Scar_script_work_in_Simba

You guys should also feel like you are Simba developer; that's kind of the point. You don't have to do all of the coding, but I was expecting at least some work on your sides too. Be it extensively testing, writing documentation, ranting on me and raymond because our code doesn't work, etc.

Simba is to SCAR like Linux is to Windows. It's better than its counterpart but the majority is so used to the same thing they've always had they never bother switching.

I switched to Simba just recently and I like how it runs but for some reason I don't like the look (I know, weird). Can you have the // comment things not the bolded blue stuff :3

And I suppose we release it SCAR compatible, and state we are moving to Simba compatibility in the near future? Tbh, is there much different on the code side between Simba and SCAR if SRL4 compiles on both?

From: Wizzup?
Like this?
http://villavu.com/wiki/index.php/Make_your_Scar_script_work_in_Simba

You guys should also feel like you are Simba developer; that's kind of the point. You don't have to do all of the coding, but I was expecting at least some work on your sides too. Be it extensively testing, writing documentation, ranting on me and raymond because our code doesn't work, etc. Or just writing a script.

I'm guessing the reason why I never stumbled on this is due to it not being known enough. Official threads maybe?

And why the hell should we feel like Simba developers? I'm not even sure who has access to simba forums and who doesn't…

On top of that, I don't see why you don't just ask us to have a simba version, rather than rant…

~RM

From: Blumblebee
Simba is to SCAR like Linux is to Windows. It's better than its counterpart but the majority is so used to the same thing they've always had they never bother switching.

I switched to Simba just recently and I like how it runs but for some reason I don't like the look (I know, weird). Can you have the // comment things not the bolded blue stuff :3

Then sent me a hatemail stating the colours are ugly. I'm sure we'll find something. AFAIK Markus is going to create an extension to manage different colour schemes.

From: Blumblebee
And I suppose we release it SCAR compatible, and state we are moving to Simba compatibility in the near future? Tbh, is there much different on the code side between Simba and SCAR if SRL4 compiles on both?

No, that's why I am so surprised there's nil support for Simba.

From: Wizzup?

No, that's why I am so surprised there's nil support for Simba.

User unfriendliness in forums. There's no tuts etc on Simba.

~RM

From: Rasta Magician
I'm guessing the reason why I never stumbled on this is due to it not being known enough. Official threads maybe?

And why the hell should we feel like Simba developers? I'm not even sure who has access to simba forums and who doesn't…

On top of that, I don't see why you don't just ask us to have a simba version, rather than rant…

~RM

As I've stated previously, it isn't really a rant. ;)

From: Rasta Magician
User unfriendliness in forums. There's no tuts etc on Simba.

~RM

Well, I'm sure there are more people than just me and Raymond who understand Simba… A bit of work is never bad. Do you think it was trivial to make simba work well internally? It's a huge job, and I hope you guys can do your share of work too.
Simba isn't hard to learn - it's trivial. I think it's a bit unfair to just `not' use the application because there are no extensive documentations. Those will follow, and if you put a bit of time in getting to know simba I'm sure you can write a few too.

If one can make scripts for SCAR, and one can rant at SCAR's for it failing.. Then one can definitely use Simba..

I'm just telling you why it isn't widely used. Not blaming you for it.

I'm here, comfortable with my slightly anoying scar, and get SIMBA. I then try to run a script and it fails to compile. I then check .simb-s and realize a few obvious changes that I have to make, such as .include -> $i

I now try to run my script and it compiles, but nothing is executed, and I go like WTF? and try to debug to see what is going wrong.

After lots of pointless searching, I find that it's SetColorSpeed2Modifiers. I wonder why it even compiled.

I then change that and still it does nothing. I try looking for a tutorial and find nothing. And that's about the time I gave up.

~RM

From: Rasta Magician
I'm just telling you why it isn't widely used. Not blaming you for it.

I'm here, comfortable with my slightly anoying scar, and get SIMBA. I then try to run a script and it fails to compile. I then check .simb-s and realize a few obvious changes that I have to make, such as .include -> $i

I now try to run my script and it compiles, but nothing is executed, and I go like WTF? and try to debug to see what is going wrong.

After lots of pointless searching, I find that it's SetColorSpeed2Modifiers. I wonder why it even compiled.

I then change that and still it does nothing. I try looking for a tutorial and find nothing. And that's about the time I gave up.

~RM

Didn't hear you crying around that you found a bug, or got stuck somewhere. :)
It's most likely an error on your side, and not in simba. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't ``report'' it. We won't miraculously solve your problems if we don't know them. :D

I have no problem with MSI being compatible with SIMBA, but when we started this project, SIMBA was still in beginning stages, AFAIK anyways.

From what I can see, we will probably release as a Scar script, but that's not to say that it wont be converted to SIMBA. Currently SIMBA is not public though, and MSI needs as much support as possible.

It's not that bwe don't support SIMBA because we do, at least I do 100%, but it's not the most commonly used compiler at the moment. I assure you however, MSI will be SIMBA compatible :)

I am not currently part of the MSI team.

I however can clearly depict the many reasons I don't work on anything simba related extensively yet… everything I've done with is a comptability mode that isn't well tested or tweaked ect..

The truth of the matter is SRL 4 is a mess, it's been falling apart more and more with each game update. A lot of scripts and portions of SRL were designed, tested and tweaked in SCAR. A key component of any script, is timing. If anything runs faster or slower or even differently in the slightest way, it can have drastic affects on the script run. No one is really sure if all the anti randoms in SRL 4 even work with simba yet, so it seems kinda pointless to put forth all the conversion work to make a script from scratch in simba only to not have a completed base ready.

SCAR isn't bad at all. Everytime before I go to run a script long term I just close SCAR and run it right away with out doing anything and it runs perfect… and that's saying a lot because my computers are complete shit. Windows/XP/<600mb RAM/ 7> years old. Myself and many other people like the IDE/CDE much better as well, and it has a lot more features than simba currently does.

Sure simba is cool and the new thing, compiles like a charm (1/4th the time of SCAR) buts it's still new ground and has some changes to undergo, and without SRL 5 ready not much is going to really happen with simba, at least, not enough to let it surpass SCAR. Depending on how well Freddy writes Luna, simba might be half a year or more before it surpasses SCAR in terms of overall usage.

I'm not saying any of this because I don't like simba or whatever, it's just, for practical reasons. It's obvious why it isn't widely used yet.

If you really wanted to kick things off Wizzup?, you (and other wellaclaimed scripters) should start making scripts that are souly simba scripts. Tested, tweaked, made, used all in Simba from the 'get-go' in order to demonstrate your 'product'. If it's the better choice, it will surely catch on soon enough.

I agree for the most part with IceFire's post. Wizzup, you know we all love and respect you and your work, along with all the other SIMBA dev's.

It just seems a bit early to convert such a big project as MSI to SIMBA.

From: NCDS
I agree for the most part with IceFire's post. Wizzup, you know we all love and respect you and your work, along with all the other SIMBA dev's.

It just seems a bit early to convert such a big project as MSI to SIMBA.

I've converted a script in minutes.

From: IceFire908
I am not currently part of the MSI team.

I however can clearly depict the many reasons I don't work on anything simba related extensively yet… everything I've done with is a comptability mode that isn't well tested or tweaked ect..

The truth of the matter is SRL 4 is a mess, it's been falling apart more and more with each game update. A lot of scripts and portions of SRL were designed, tested and tweaked in SCAR.

Sorry for taking this out of context - but I see no reason why SRL 4 wouldn't work with Simba. The only ``stoppers'' I found were direct bugs in SRL that SCAR simply didn't nag about. (Searching for text outside the client)

From: IceFire908
A key component of any script, is timing. If anything runs faster or slower or even differently in the slightest way, it can have drastic affects on the script run. No one is really sure if all the anti randoms in SRL 4 even work with simba yet, so it seems kinda pointless to put forth all the conversion work to make a script from scratch in simba only to not have a completed base ready.

TBH, the timing thing sounds like bullshit. I don't see how it will run any different in Simba. Randoms? They should work, go an find out.
The easiest way to stress Simba is to directly port your script… so why not?

From: IceFire908
SCAR isn't bad at all. Everytime before I go to run a script long term I just close SCAR and run it right away with out doing anything and it runs perfect… and that's saying a lot because my computers are complete shit. Windows/XP/<600mb RAM/ 7> years old. Myself and many other people like the IDE/CDE much better as well, and it has a lot more features than simba currently does.

Ha. I've been working with SCAR lately and it is less stable than IE. Can't run a script more than twice, and it will crash. I'm not sure what you guys are calling stable… The computer I used to develop Simba has 386MB ram.
Features? Like a DTM editor? You can still use SCAR as a DTM editor if you want, it doesn't have anything to do with making your scripts Simba compatible.
Yes, Simba lacks good code hints, but I can't think of much features SCAR has, TBH. (Unless you call that lousy bitmap editor a feature) Apart from failing every other minute. Perhaps you learned how to work your way around those bugs, so I don't see why you can learn your way around Simba or simply report what's bugging you.

From: IceFire908
Sure simba is cool and the new thing, compiles like a charm (1/4th the time of SCAR) buts it's still new ground and has some changes to undergo, and without SRL 5 ready not much is going to really happen with simba, at least, not enough to let it surpass SCAR. Depending on how well Freddy writes Luna, simba might be half a year or more before it surpasses SCAR in terms of overall usage.

Ha. I have absolutely no trust in SCAR Luna and I highly doubt it will be used a lot.

From: IceFire908

I'm not saying any of this because I don't like simba or whatever, it's just, for practical reasons. It's obvious why it isn't widely used yet.

I can only guess because it isn't released yet, haven't seen much other complaints for your side. No bug reports.

From: IceFire908
If you really wanted to kick things off Wizzup?, you (and other wellaclaimed scripters) should start making scripts that are souly simba scripts. Tested, tweaked, made, used all in Simba from the 'get-go' in order to demonstrate your 'product'. If it's the better choice, it will surely catch on soon enough.

Yeah, I'll probably make a few scripts… I'll revive my miner scripts.

From: Wizzup?
I've converted a script in minutes.

Well that's not necessarily what I was talking about, but I should have been more specific. I meant more so MSI isn't ready, not that SIMBA isn't.

We have had a couple lengthy run's, but for the most part the script is rather un-stable ATM. It's nothing major, but I feel we should work on getting MSI all working and functioning well before it's converted to SIMBA.

From: Wizzup?
I've converted a script in minutes.



Sorry for taking this out of context - but I see no reason why SRL 4 wouldn't work with Simba. The only ``stoppers'' I found were direct bugs in SRL that SCAR simply didn't nag about. (Searching for text outside the client)



TBH, the timing thing sounds like bullshit. I don't see how it will run any different in Simba. Randoms? They should work, go an find out.
The easiest way to stress Simba is to directly port your script… so why not?



Ha. I've been working with SCAR lately and it is less stable than IE. Can't run a script more than twice, and it will crash. I'm not sure what you guys are calling stable… The computer I used to develop Simba has 386MB ram.
Features? Like a DTM editor? You can still use SCAR as a DTM editor if you want, it doesn't have anything to do with making your scripts Simba compatible.
Yes, Simba lacks good code hints, but I can't think of much features SCAR has, TBH. (Unless you call that lousy bitmap editor a feature) Apart from failing every other minute. Perhaps you learned how to work your way around those bugs, so I don't see why you can learn your way around Simba or simply report what's bugging you.



Ha. I have absolutely no trust in SCAR Luna and I highly doubt it will be used a lot.



I can only guess because it isn't released yet, haven't seen much other complaints for your side. No bug reports.



Yeah, I'll probably make a few scripts… I'll revive my miner scripts.

It's nothing that is wrong with simba, only that everything that was converted for it was never tested in simba, like 90% of the include. Same thing with a lot of scripts, not really designed specifically for simba ect.. Yea the randoms *should work* except those one or two that were nerfed in simba compatibilty, but for all we know it could throw an access violation or flat out not work.. just because something works in the slightest way different. It's not exactly easy to find any of this out.

I don't know how anyone can expect things, epsicially large projects like MSI/POMS ect.. to be made for simba at this point in time. It's not public and SRL 5 is not ready yet, so you can see just from that why people aren't going to use it as much yet.

From: IceFire908
It's nothing that is wrong with simba, only that everything that was converted for it was never tested in simba, like 90% of the include. Same thing with a lot of scripts, not really designed specifically for simba ect.. Yea the randoms *should work* except those one or two that were nerfed in simba compatibilty, but for all we know it could throw an access violation or flat out not work.. just because something works in the slightest way different. It's not exactly easy to find any of this out.

I don't know how anyone can expect things, epsicially large projects like MSI/POMS ect.. to be made for simba at this point in time. It's not public and SRL 5 is not ready yet, so you can see just from that why people aren't going to use it as much yet.

Simba will just as well be for SRL 4. My point is that we could really use some help with testing. Porting your script is not for the public, but for the Simba development and for the (100+) people with access to the Simba forum.

just to kind of flip things for a second here, I actually think that we should shift towards using this for Simba.

Just throwing it out there, but in reality if Simba were to be released near the time MSI is released, and MSI is made for Simba, all of a sudden we have shifted a large portion of SRLer's towards Simba opposed to SCAR. If we are truly bent on moving away from SCAR then I support us making MSI at least compatible with Simba and if not then I suppose we stop bitching about all the errors we have received with SCAR over the long run. And I know this doesn't apply to everyone here, or maybe not even anyone here. Maybe everyone here was happy with SCAR, and if so then disregard this.

I mean honestly, there are errors in SCAR that we have to wait for ~6months to get fixed that can be fixed in ~2 days with Simba just in the fact of being open source and Freddy being incredibly busy (at least I hope that's what it is) the last while.

just my two bits.

From: NCDS
I agree for the most part with IceFire's post. Wizzup, you know we all love and respect you and your work, along with all the other SIMBA dev's.

It just seems a bit early to convert such a big project as MSI to SIMBA.

Might I state here that it's not just Wizzup? who runs this project :o

Don't worry! We all love you Ray! :biggrin:

From: nielsie95
Don't worry! We all love you Ray! :biggrin:

:thumbsup:

From: mastaraymond
Might I state here that it's not just Wizzup? who runs this project :o

From: NCDS
Wizzup, you know we all love and respect you and your work, along with all the other SIMBA dev's.

I tried to address you all :redface:

To be quite honest, I could see it going either way. I've run the MSI script at least 30+ times, and I'm going to say more than half of those times the script stopped because of Access violation errors. It's rather annoying. Lol

Anyway, I know that everyone wants to see MSI released ASAP, but Blumblebee brings up some good points. Since a Beta version of Simba will be released shortly, I don't see the harm in making it compatible with Simba. I mean, let's be honest, I highly doubt there's going to be much to change. Hell, I didn't have to change one line from my Draynor script the make it work with Simba (excluding the PlayerForm, but that's not actually part of the script). I personally tested the script with Simba after it was converted, and I saw no problems whatsoever.

I just think it would be much easier to have it Simba compatible before we release, that way we avoid the hassle when the include is trying to be developed by everyone.

Just my 2 cents.

Since Simba is going to be released soon, I think we should make it compatible.

Any more thoughts on this?

I started to SCAR <-> SIMBA converter, it's not too complicated just pos and replace. I was going to use it to cross-compatil'ize' MSI; but I just havent got the time to finish it recently (currently revising 5-6 hours a day which isn't that much tbh. [I'm also lazy, but I'm not supposed to mention that :p]).

My opinion, and many others', would be to make it cross compatible - have one svn for simba and one for scar; and what not. Or what ever you may want to do (git l33t h4x or what have you).
But; yeah - why not :)

As far as I know there isn't a need for a converter, as long as you include srl/simba.simb most of the missing SCAR functions are put back in place.. The rest is just stuff you have to change by hand :)

I also don't think there's need for two versions. We can just have one version with a few defines. Unless the two become very different, I don't see the need.

From: Coh3n
I also don't think there's need for two versions. We can just have one version with a few defines. Unless the two become very different, I don't see the need.

hummm……. I just made this for my miner, but I guess that a couple of defines could be stuck in here which would make life easy as hell…

[php]
{ RM ————————————————————————–]
[ Gets CTS Info ]
[——————————————————————————}
procedure GetCTS(var speed: integer; var H, S: extended);
begin
speed := GetColorToleranceSpeed;
GetColorspeed2Modifiers(H, S);
end;

{ RM ————————————————————————–]
[ Sets CTS info ]
[——————————————————————————}
procedure SetCTS(speed: integer; H, S: extended);
begin
ColorToleranceSpeed(speed);
SetColorspeed2Modifiers(H, S);
end;
[/php]

~RM

???

Is CTS stuff different in Simba…? I'm not to familiar with it right now.

CTS has a more logical naming. The way it works is the same.
Naum: Converters are OK for SRL 4, but for SRL 5 and beyond we won't be using a SCAR compatibility layer. :)

From: Wizzup?
CTS has a more logical naming. The way it works is the same.

Ah, okay. I understand. :)

From: Wizzup?
CTS has a more logical naming. The way it works is the same.
Naum: Converters are OK for SRL 4, but for SRL 5 and beyond we won't be using a SCAR compatibility layer. :)

MSI will probably remain scar compatible until the community has made a full switch to SIMBA. (well, we'll remain scar compatible for a bit after SRL 5)

~RM

From: Rasta Magician
MSI will probably remain scar compatible until the community has made a full switch to SIMBA. (well, we'll remain scar compatible for a bit after SRL 5)

~RM

So what's the final verdict? Make it Simba compatible before release? Or no?

From: Coh3n
So what's the final verdict? Make it Simba compatible before release? Or no?

Yes, but keep the scar version (duh)

~RM

From: Rasta Magician
Yes, but keep the scar version (duh)

~RM

Well yeah. :p

To be honest, there's probably not much we're going to have to change. But how often does something go the way you want it? :rolleyes:

From: Coh3n
But how often does something go the way you want it? :rolleyes:

Not as often as anyone wishes.

Re-Thinking: As we are ready to release, If the simba version is not yet ready by the time the announcement is done, I'll just add in a small paragraph announcing a SIMBA version will be released soon.

~RM

From: Rasta Magician
Not as often as anyone wishes.

Re-Thinking: As we are ready to release, If the simba version is not yet ready by the time the announcement is done, I'll just add in a small paragraph announcing a SIMBA version will be released soon.

~RM

Sounds good. :)

I've added Simba compatibility to the list on the testing thread. If no one else starts, I'm pretty sure I could get it done tomorrow. I said it earlier, and no one seemed to object, so I'm assuming we should use defines instead of a separate include. Just want to double check.

Just use a wrapper for comonly used methods with the defines in the wrapper, keeps it clean. Much like the simba.simb in SRL4.

If you include the Simba.simb most errors should already be gone :bart:

From: mastaraymond
If you include the Simba.simb most errors should already be gone :bart:

Is it not already included in SRL.scar?

From: Nava2
Just use a wrapper for comonly used methods with the defines in the wrapper, keeps it clean. Much like the simba.simb in SRL4.

This ^

Remember the GetCTS and SetCTS procedures I posted? Those with defines inside would be a great example of what (i think) nava means.

~RM

From: Rasta Magician
This ^

Remember the GetCTS and SetCTS procedures I posted? Those with defines inside would be a great example of what (i think) nava means.

~RM

Just a side note.

With the wrappers in the latest SRL dev revs, they are the same as in SCAR when using SRL… no defines needed.