SRL Archive - Senior News and General

Well, I was just thinking and don't know what conclusion to draw.

The Man released a script, here.

Total number of funcs/procs: 26
total lines: 942

By Nielsie: 5
total lines: 217 = 23%

By RM: 6
total lines: 199 = 21%

functions left after deductions:

• DeclarePlayers
• ProgressReport
• SendEmail
• ScriptTerminate
• SwitchWorlds
• ExpGained
• AntiBan
• AntiRandoms
• GetAnimation
• CountOre
• WaitUntilMined
• MineOre
• PlayerSetup
• ScriptSetup

Notices:
He credits Yohojo for part of the Proggie.
His DeclarePlayers is huge
GetAnimation…wouldn't that be in ref include?
Nielsie's functions are Stats functions


Question really is, should he be allowed to release a script that is only 56% (or less) his, especially when about 40% are just functions needed in every script? (player setup, script setup, proggie, etc)

~RM

does one have the right to release a game when using a premade game engine? or a right to display a photo that one photoshopped but used tutorials to accomplish? Or even does one have the right to release a script after they read a tutorial on how to make that script?

Sure he has the right, but as long as people know that he didn't do the work to make the thing himself, in the eyes of people who care, he won't be the one that gets credit. (for the most part, nobody cares who made what script, only that the script works)

Personally, I would be pissed if someone made a runecrafter and "borrowed" functions, especially with out asking, and especially without crediting at all.

Though I wouldn't even bother including Nielsie's stats, Playerstuff ect.. in your statistic up there since that literally has to be copied and pasted into every script or locally included for everything.

He should of asked before using that stuff in his script, and at very least, credited them properly.

An infraction warning, and a failed since of self style seems to be the correct dosage of punishment for a first time offense, IHMO.

If he does something like this again, someone should just delete his thread on sight and PM him to make a more original script and quit plagiarizing/borderline plagiarizing.

Indeed I agree with IceFire908.

It is not that people shouldn't be allowed to use other peoples stuff, just that they should use it with the permission and credits for it (unless the author says no need).

After all, virtually all scripts use SRL, which makes the script itself maybe <10% produced by them?

Imitation is the sincerest form of Flattery ?…We walk a thin line here…most advocating for free sharing of knowledge, but at the same time wish to preserve the respect from the time invested…my suggestion…add a "signature" to each custom procedure or function you make….similar to the way the SRL Includes are structured….that way, if they copy it, hopefully credit's will be included….

Nielsie's lines of stats code isn't pluralization :p, anyone who uses stats needs the code.

But I COMPLETELY see what you are saying. Him just stealing my script intro, thread title , first post design, and stats sig design pissed me off a lot (And that's not even anything too substantial).

There are a lot of things that all people code similarly, like The use of the little "SetColor2Mods Autocolor, TPA, TPAtoATP," type of auto coloring thing, which is fine. But the code that The Man 'stole' from you is way to similar and unique to be under this category.

I feel like you have all the right to be angered and pissed off at what he has done. I'm happy that he 'made a script' and took some time to do some work, but overall I'd say all he did was copy/paste some of you code, and some of the generic code used in all scripts (Antiban, Progress Reports, Declare Player, etc) so it's not that huge of an accomplishment.

Overall, yay he made a script, and is contributing. But even though it seems kind of stupid, I agree that it should be stated by him that pretty much ALL of the MEAT of the script is just slight/if any variations on RastaMagician's code, because it is completely unfair that The Man is getting props and credit for that script, even though a good chunk of the main code belongs to RastaMagician.

Some of the functions after deductions may not be his as well. I remember a while ago when he released some woodcutter (Prowoodcutter maybe?), he used my EXACT ExpGained function without crediting. The function didn't even work properly in his script because of the way my script was setup.

When I asked him about it, he just said he forgot. I personally don't care if someone uses a function from one of my scripts, as long as they credit, but it bugs me if they don't credit. Honestly, when you copy a function from someone, the first thing you should do is credit.

From: RAM
Imitation is the sincerest form of Flattery ?…We walk a thin line here…most advocating for free sharing of knowledge, but at the same time wish to preserve the respect from the time invested…my suggestion…add a "signature" to each custom procedure or function you make….similar to the way the SRL Includes are structured….that way, if they copy it, hopefully credit's will be included….

Free sharing of knowledge is one thing, plagiarism is another RAM…

Most of us don't mind other people using our code, but stealing it is different; It is still our work. Most SRL Devs probably have people using parsof their code everyday. But it's still their work.

I don't mind it at all if he used my code or not… but I do mind being credited or not.

Mostly and foremost because it would be unfair for him to get any recognition for it.

~RM

As long as he credits the code he uses…

Who cares?

ahh. I wasn't aware that he wasn't crediting. In that case, most people would generally want credit i guess. I personally don't particularly care, i just think it would be nifty to know where my code is going even though i don't particularly care who knows that the code is mine.

From: Dan Cardin
ahh. I wasn't aware that he wasn't crediting. In that case, most people would generally want credit i guess. I personally don't particularly care, i just think it would be nifty to know where my code is going even though i don't particularly care who knows that the code is mine.

I think the issue here is more so that he is getting credit for something that he hasn't done, not entirely that others are worried about not receiving credit.

I'm still slightly confused, however. Is the issue him neglecting giving credit where credit is due? Or is he releasing script(s) under his name with tons of credits to other people, basically making the script not actually his?

From: Tad
Or is he releasing script(s) under his name with tons of credits to other people, basically making the script not actually his?

^ That.

He did it with his powerchopper, it was pretty much all ripped from coh3n's scripts, then he had the nerve to accuse Coh3n of copying him! If I remember correctly.. Hmm, curiously, I might check and see if he ripped from mine! :stirthepot:

Either way, I think that its not right to claim you've completed something when in essence you did nothing but use others works and rename it. Regardless if its credited.

From: Tad
I think the issue here is more so that he is getting credit for something that he hasn't done, not entirely that others are worried about not receiving credit.

I'm still slightly confused, however. Is the issue him neglecting giving credit where credit is due? Or is he releasing script(s) under his name with tons of credits to other people, basically making the script not actually his?

I guess those two got a bit messed up.

The point for the thread had actually been the second one, although we ended up mostly discussing the first one.

~RM

From: Nava2
He did it with his powerchopper, it was pretty much all ripped from coh3n's scripts, then he had the nerve to accuse Coh3n of copying him! If I remember correctly.. Hmm, curiously, I might check and see if he ripped from mine! :stirthepot:

Wow, I completely forgot about that! Yeah he tried to say I took his code, even though our scripts were completely different. Pretty sure when I confronted him about it, I never got a response.

Thats not even his script imo. All the hard stuff has been directly copied, the easy shit that's in all scripts he did himself….this kids a loser. He pretty much copied YoHoJo completely with his miner, the stats and even the way he named the script…and then the way he copied the woodcutting, which I didnt know about..villiage idiot cup?

Im not saying i like the guy, but the generally accepted (unless otherwise stated) thing afaik, is that one can use someone's code as long as one credits the work. Am I right? Yea, sure people generally ask first i think, but ask yourself, if someone else that you don't dislike had done the same thing, with only one function, and credited. Would you be angry? I doubt so. So being just on a grander scale, i suppose it makes it much less his script and he shouldn't really be congratulated for such a thing, but imo its not really against the rules if he did so credit.

From: Dan Cardin
Im not saying i like the guy, but the generally accepted (unless otherwise stated) thing afaik, is that one can use someone's code as long as one credits the work. Am I right? Yea, sure people generally ask first i think, but ask yourself, if someone else that you don't dislike had done the same thing, with only one function, and credited. Would you be angry? I doubt so. So being just on a grander scale, i suppose it makes it much less his script and he shouldn't really be congratulated for such a thing, but imo its not really against the rules if he did so credit.

You should ask unless otherwise stated.

I don't mind if people recycle big parts of a script, but the thing is that they at least would have to understand how it works. The Man just doesn't understand most of it.

Another thing is indeed credit. Maybe you should send him a personal message telling him how you feel about it and if he doesn't change it we'll step in.

Using a couple of functions with credits is fine. If going to release to a more public level of the forum, ask permission (if author checks PMs at least once a week) also.

Taking over updating of a script, or copying >50% of a script with permission (if author checks PMs at least once a week) and credits is fine.

Also, encourage scripters to use SRL like headers on their functions, so that they will be copied along with the function. Helps with credits but also readability and learning etc.

I think it's ok to use as much other peoples stuff as possible if the scripter credits the original writer. Of course you cannot use a single line from someone elses code if the person has clearly stated that the code is not allowed to be copied.

Oh, and SendEmail is by Trilez.

[QUOTE=Nava2;687118]You should ask unless otherwise stated.
red Cardin?

aswell as seems much more like opinion. Asking to use every function separately would quick get hindering, especially in The Man's position. You are making your code open sourced. One generally doesn't ask if they can use a few procedures/functions of a piece of open sourced software afaik (very well could be wrong in general procedure, but i wouldn't assume so) so it seems like by doing releasing it open sourced-like you are already allowing people to take it when the proper credit is given.

You're right Dan, it's not really against the rules, it's just not nice. This is a tough one though, as The Man just refuses to credit.. I'm not really sure what to do here. Adding a rule is (in my opinion) over the top, but warning him has no use and giving him infraction for it makes no sense as there is no rule..

From: nielsie95
You're right Dan, it's not really against the rules, it's just not nice. This is a tough one though, as The Man just refuses to credit.. I'm not really sure what to do here. Adding a rule is (in my opinion) over the top, but warning him has no use and giving him infraction for it makes no sense as there is no rule..

It's plagiarism :S Surely we have a rule against that? And he just removed all the credits.

We even ban people for plagiarizing their member apps :/

~RM

Surely at one point enough is enough though?
While not crediting people isn't exactly against the rules, script stealing and the like is. Is it not more about judging at what point a person uses enough to make it someone else's script? Of course this need not apply with proper crediting, but without it is quite simply stealing and if repeatedly done and not just a one time accident of forgetfulness, then it should be something they're punished for.

Either that or I should go away and do homeworks now.

i see he credits people minus RM. For that I suppose you can infract him, but it might make more sense to simply make sure he is aware that his script is being reviewed for such not crediting, and allow him to add the credits before getting too hasty. If he doesn't do so, and/or it happens again, then more prudent action can be taken.

Mostly towards the beginning of my posts, i was more targeting the mentioned percentages of his actual code that was included in the script.

From: Dan Cardin
i see he credits people minus RM. For that I suppose you can infract him, but it might make more sense to simply make sure he is aware that his script is being reviewed for such not crediting, and allow him to add the credits before getting too hasty. If he doesn't do so, and/or it happens again, then more prudent action can be taken.

Mostly towards the beginning of my posts, i was more targeting the mentioned percentages of his actual code that was included in the script.

This has happened. He has then credited and yesterday went and deleted the credited version.

Also:

Plagiarism: Posting someone else's work claiming it is your own creation. Copying Modifying functions / procedures is only allowed if you credit properly. For examples, refer to the SRL - Include.

http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6964

~RM

deleting credited version seems rather silly and ignorant, especially if you told him such things. I suppose if that is the case, a more formal warning ought to be in order.

From: Dan Cardin
deleting credited version seems rather silly and ignorant, especially if you told him such things. I suppose if that is the case, a more formal warning ought to be in order.

Warning infraction had already been dealt.

~RM

before this entire debacle?

From: Dan Cardin
before this entire debacle?

Warning was at…

02-20-2010 08:43 AM by Rasta Magician

vs Yesterday, 08:09 AM for the thread, so yes.

Personally, I'm still slightly confused as to what he is (not) doing :p. Is the issue that he is both not crediting and releasing a script that he little for? If so, it seems an infraction is fair for negligence of crediting and/or not asking the original author's permission. If it's both or only the latter, I think a new rule/new interpretation of a rule (Plagiarism) needs to be announced. The new rule would be a requirement to clearly credit other authors so that every script user knows who it is by, not just those who read the code. This way, people like The Man can still contribute working scripts to the community, but everyone will know they didn't do all of the work.

If he has ignored and, it would seem, rebelled against all efforts made so far to give him a chance to fix his script, he deserves a temp ban. Plagiarism is a serious offense; if he can't manage to abide by a simple rule and show some respect to the people whose work he is profiting off of, apparently he needs a stronger push in the right direction.

In addition, if our rules are not opaque enough concerning this matter, they must be changed.

Perhaps some of that code, if so oft-used, ought to be included in SRL? For example, Nielsie's stats code?

From: Smartzkid
If he has ignored and, it would seem, rebelled against all efforts made so far to give him a chance to fix his script, he deserves a temp ban. Plagiarism is a serious offense; if he can't manage to abide by a simple rule and show some respect to the people whose work he is profiting off of, apparently he needs a stronger push in the right direction.

In addition, if our rules are not opaque enough concerning this matter, they must be changed.

Perhaps some of that code, if so oft-used, ought to be included in SRL? For example, Nielsie's stats code?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't he already been temporarily banned?

From: Coh3n
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't he already been temporarily banned?

Do you mean in the past, before all of this? Yes, I believe he was banned for 1-2 weeks when he plagiarized JAD's moneymaking guide (after buying it) and was selling it.

If you're talking about being banned for what is being discussed now; no, the only action has been a warning by RM.

From: Tad
Do you mean in the past, before all of this? Yes, I believe he was banned for 1-2 weeks when he plagiarized JAD's moneymaking guide (after buying it) and was selling it.

If you're talking about being banned for what is being discussed now; no, the only action has been a warning by RM.

Oh okay. I wasn't sure. But I guess he was banned for plagiarism, and it has come up in this discussion a few times.