SRL Archive - Discussions and Debates

It appears JaGeX are starting to get up peoples backs - They have recently issued some warnings straight out to both RSBot and RSCheata and they have filed a lawsuit against RSCheata, also known as Nexus / iBot / Impulse software owned by Eric Snellman and Mark snellman, ruler and genodemon.

This is just a first warning that you may be in the firing line later on, and any information you wish to know about the case is located:

http://206.217.212.169/~cowie/RSDocuments/jagex_vs_impulse_software.pdf
http://206.217.212.169/~cowie/RSDocuments/lawsuit.asp.htm

It not the first time they got copywrite problems, they used runescape images on there site and got a law suit some time ago

Every bot is in trouble. Interesting why they warned and didn't do anything to RSBot? Is Reflection & Color worse than BCEL? Or is it something else?

Once downloaded the Bot software uses a process called reflection to examine the
operation of the RuneScape® client, which is otherwise normally hidden from players. The Bot
software then uses this information in conjunction with color sampling techniques to identify
objects within RuneScape® that the Bot software wishes to interact with, such as trees, mining
spots or monsters.

(I added the bolding)

Where did you get this from. Proof of its authenticity?

From: Tad
Every bot is in trouble. Interesting why they warned and didn't do anything to RSBot? Is Reflection & Color worse than BCEL? Or is it something else?



(I added the bolding)

Only using reflection is 'illegal' color is 100% legal to use.

From: Tad
Every bot is in trouble. Interesting why they warned and didn't do anything to RSBot?

There is the possibility it's because iBot costs money while RSBot is free.

RSBot also has a VIP pay section, and script sales, they will probably also get sued soon.

Lets all visit Ruler!
http://maps.google.com/maps/place?cid=14289895611297691596&q=675%2BHummingbird%2BDrive,%2BIndialantic,%2BFlorida,%2B32903.&hl=en

Poor guys, just two brothers trying to make some good $ by making a bot for a game! :p (And infringing copyright!)

FUN FACT!

Massachusetts has the fourth largest number of users
using Defendants’ Bot products in RuneScape® within the United States.

Ha!

Jagex owns various copyrights in the Software including, but not limited to,
copyright registrations VA0001684002 (anvil icon), VA0001683989 (archery icon),
VA0001683990 (chisel icon), VA0001683991 (dart icon), VA0001683992 (fire icon),
VA0001683993 (fish icon), VA0001683997 (fist icon), VA0001683965 (knight icon),
VA0001683964 (leaves icon), VA0001683966 (mask icon), VA0001683970 (pickaxe icon),
VA0001683972 (pot icon), VA0001683974 (rune icon), VA0001683977 (shield icon),
VA0001683979 (skull icon), VA0001683978 (sword icon), VA0001683980 (tree icon),
VA0001683983 (watercan icon), VA0001683984 (wizard icon), VA0001683988 (wolf icon),
and VA0001683999 (wood icon), copies of which are attached as Exhibit C.

Uh Oh! I better change my sig, and SRL better change the script heading pictures! :p

From: senrath
There is the possibility it's because iBot costs money while RSBot is free.

Ah, well played.

@Yohojo: Though, from what I gather from looking through the lawsuit, they seem to be pinning it on just cheating in general and not hacking the client.

Based on the contents of the document, colour too would be possible to sue, but then again I'm not a lawyer.

Purely from their T&C,

You must not use other software to gain an unfair advantage in our
games. This includes automation tools, macros, bots, or auto-
typers.

Although it doesn't wholly apply, SRL too does attempt to avoid bot detection, so could be applicable

35. The RuneScape® game and the Software use Java-based security measures to
detect and prevent the use of bot software.
36. Defendants have designed the Bots to circumvent the technological measures
implemented in Java, as shown in Exhibit D. In addition, the Bots’ use of reflection techniques
and circumvention of private access modifiers on RuneScape® data fields circumvents security
measures put in place by Jagex to protect its copyrighted works.

Just a couple, but there's more and I'm sure even more onwards from that which could be possibly against something or other.

Rofl, yeah we are breaking the RUNESCAPE's terms and conditions by using color bots (Which will result in a ban)-.-, but we aren't breaking any REAL LIFE LAWS.

From: YoHoJo
Rofl, yeah we are breaking the RUNESCAPE's terms and conditions by using color bots (Which will result in a ban)-.-, but we aren't breaking any REAL LIFE LAWS.

Thats not what there saying?

Basically there saying is

Breaking their rules = breaking copyright laws = illegal

From: YoHoJo
Rofl, yeah we are breaking the RUNESCAPE's terms and conditions by using color bots (Which will result in a ban)-.-, but we aren't breaking any REAL LIFE LAWS.

The way I understand it, is that breaking their rules breaks some agreement which is against the law. Seems like I'm missing something though, because if that was all, you could get sued for swearing in RS…

EDIT: Count III in the first link, 41-49, is all about them using the word 'Runescape'. Every bot should now strive to rid themselves of everything like that, I suppose.

Where can I get the link to the code for rsbot.org + mopar + rscheatas terms + conditions script? (Mopar always had it, but rsbot + rscheata just got it)

From: senrath
There is the possibility it's because iBot costs money while RSBot is free.

Exactly my thoughts.

@TAD: I quickly looked that pdf through, and I didn't find anything they can pin on SRL. Examining colours on the clients can't be ``illegal''; how are you supposed to play the game otherwise?

From: Wizzup?
Exactly my thoughts.

@TAD: I quickly looked that pdf through, and I didn't find anything they can pin on SRL. Examining colours on the clients can't be ``illegal''; how are you supposed to play the game otherwise?

This:

When a RuneScape® player uses the
Bot software, the player exceeds his or her license under the RuneScape® Terms and Conditions,
thereby infringing Jagex’s copyright(s).

This:

including but not limited to loss of player revenue due to reduction in the
amount of legitimate RuneScape® players who quit when their playing experience was
negatively impacted by the defendants’ Bots; employee time investigating and addressing user
accounts using Bots; employee time responding to complaints from legitimate RuneScape®
players regarding others’ use of the Bots, and the like.

Things like that, a couple more I can't find again, atm.

EDIT: Is SMART working around copyright laws?

Also, does it make any big difference that you guys are based in the Netherlands? Jagex is citing US laws for iBot/Nexus.

Well, if Jagex wins this case, then the jury are idiots. Jagex are citing the DMCA 17 U.S.C. § 1201(a) and (b)(1), Section 43(a) of the Lanham Act, and the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. The first citing only applies to circumventing copyright protection code, which iBot does not do. The second citing pertains to misrepresenting origins, which iBot does not do. The third pertains only to causing specific damages, which iBot does not do.

Edit: I'm not a lawyer, so I might have missed something.

Edit2: Also, there are a lot of idiots over at RSBot saying that they hope Jagex wins, because it will boost RSBot. Pity they don't seem to realize that if Jagex wins against Nexus/iBot, then they'll have an easier time shutting down RSBot.

I wouldn't worry about it. And I'm sure geno had a good laugh when he saw this.

Hmm… Cowie is an SRL Member with 15 posts? Watwatindabut is going on here… I smell a troll.

From: IceFire908
I wouldn't worry about it. And I'm sure geno had a good laugh when he saw this.

Hmm… Cowie is an SRL Member with 15 posts? Watwatindabut is going on here… I smell a troll.

He's one of the RSBot admins.

+ I, being an new active member of RSCA can tell this is real.

As far as I am concerned, I see no legitimate way JaGex can sue us for clicking colors on the screen. They also say that players quit when they are negatively impacted by a bot, but JaGex is the one that's causing them to quit, they're banning them. When you see bots cutting a yew tree, making it harder for you to make money, you don't just say "oh i quit..". Also color clicking doesn't fall under Fraud and abuse. SRL doesn't make money from it and their is no business happening. [we don't do script sales on the forum] And we don't modify the game whatsoever[ref is dead]. Clearly, they don't have any solid way of suing SRL.

From: Tad

Also, does it make any big difference that you guys are based in the Netherlands? Jagex is citing US laws for iBot/Nexus.

What about the Pirate bay? They are in Sweden and they have a hard time bringing them down? Idk current situation, but i lol'd at their bad a** attitudes when they said they'll move to another country where they can't shut them down :p

From: senrath
He's one of the RSBot admins.

Afraid not old chap, I haven't been for about 8 months if not longer.

Besides the fact that reflection doesn't modify the client… it reflects it.

From: Cowie`
Afraid not old chap, I haven't been for about 8 months if not longer.

Doesn't matter, I'm pretty sure you deserved SRL members ;)

From: mormonman
Besides the fact that reflection doesn't modify the client… it reflects it.

According to JaGex, seeing anything that a legit player doesn't see is considered "illegal".


Edit: This and the "Scar is NOT the problem" thread have been the major discussions. Seems like we talk a lot :D

From: senrath
He's one of the RSBot admins.

From: Cowie`
Afraid not old chap, I haven't been for about 8 months if not longer.

Ok that clears that up then.

I highly doubt breaking the rules of an internet game = breaking the law -.- and is sueable.
'Hey judge, this man was clicking colors on the game, and that's against rule 7 of Runescape!'
If it is illegal, then it's probably not very enforced at all.

I'm pretty sure SRL and SCAR are in the clear, although people mainly choose to automate RuneScape with the software you make available it is upto the end-user to decide what to automate. Despite this as you can see if you read the full brief JaGeX are putting a lot of time and effort into finding every possible tie to them and their products that could infringe any laws and warrents a lawsuit.

As for the "Why iBot and not RSBot" question, I believe it to be because iBot has been out far longer than RSBot and both Eric and Mark have specifically added reselling options in which they redistribute JaGeX's software for a profit. If they can win against Impulse Software then indeed RSBot will be a far easier battle for them, as their source is publicly available for all to see that it is not specifically designed for end-user choice.

From: Cowie`
Afraid not old chap, I haven't been for about 8 months if not longer.

Well, you WERE one of the RSBot admins, right? I'm not going crazy, right?

From: YoHoJo
I highly doubt breaking the rules of an internet game = breaking the law -.- and is sueable.
'Hey judge, this man was clicking colors on the game, and that's against rule 7 of Runescape!'
If it is illegal, then it's probably not very enforced at all.

Agreed, it's stupid that someone would even consider that plausible situation in court.

[lolz]
But then again I think it would sound more serious, like: "Yo wazup judge, this dude ova here wuz clickin some funny colors on my vidya game i call runescape, and thatz illegal. JUDGE: Wtf defendant, I'm level 56 and i hate people who bot at willows! Court overruled, Defendant GUILTY.

hehe just kidding :p

From: senrath
Well, you WERE one of the RSBot admins, right? I'm not going crazy, right?

Yes, back when Johan fully owned the place I ran it.

Would selling scripts for any client without actually owning or linking to an actual download to a client. (Like have a website) be held against anyone in anyway?

I mean its just compiled .class files that need a program to run them?

Exhibit 1 for their defense should be WT-Fakawi's Sig…

"There are no cheats for Runescape" - Love, Jagex.

How can you sue that which does not exist?

From: tarajunky
Exhibit 1 for their defense should be WT-Fakawi's Sig…

"There are no cheats for Runescape" - Love, Jagex.

Hahahahaha, yea I still get that from time to time when I log into RS to adjust a script.

It would probably be followed by some broken english response to try and explain to normal people the difference between a "cheat" and a "macro" followed by a long awkward silence and smirks/laughs in the jury.

Someone, anyone, if you live near that court and this goes down. Video it and upload

From: tarajunky
Exhibit 1 for their defense should be WT-Fakawi's Sig…

"There are no cheats for Runescape" - Love, Jagex.

Wonder if you can sue JageX (as a user) for spreading lies in that case. :rolleyes:

From: ZaSz
Where can I get the link to the code for rsbot.org + mopar + rscheatas terms + conditions script? (Mopar always had it, but rsbot + rscheata just got it)

right click and copy the source and save it as your index page then link it to the next main page

Hrmm, couldn't we avoid any of this by simply stating something in the nature of

All images or depictions of the online game RuneScape are property of Jagex LTD and no other.

Also with a we hold no responsibility for what our users post line.

wouldnt that be addmitting that you actually no you are using infridment stuff??

also i hate in the document of every suit they end with

Jagex has been irreparably damaged, and continues to be damaged irreparably, by
Defendants’ computer fraud and abuse.

Actually, I am not selling/supplying a client. And I am not using the runescape name on my site, and none of the copyrighted items mentioned. So I can still sell my scripts without the warning, because if you want to buy + download, you have to agree to the sites current terms and conditions that I already have :D

They're clearly just trying to scare the owners into shutting down. Otherwise, they have a very poor understanding of what constitutes copyright infringement…

rs-hacking has been shutdown.

Hmm, I wonder how long it'll be 'till we get such a notice.

From: senrath
Hmm, I wonder how long it'll be 'till we get such a notice.

I don't think we will unless something happens to us.
We aren't one of the most popular bots, and we don't charge. I think Jagex will leave us alone for the time being.

From: senrath
Hmm, I wonder how long it'll be 'till we get such a notice.

We shouldn't, since we dont really use reflection/'steal' jagex code.
No crime in clicking colors.

Actually there is. Considering the legal team Jagex could afford, I'm sure they could find something to attack any bot, albeit quite bad reasons (ie something like an attempted DoS since we're taking away server slots from actual people). It's just the case that even they know that it will be hard, which is probably why it has taken so long for them to actually do something.

From: senrath
Hmm, I wonder how long it'll be 'till we get such a notice.

i think since we are based in the Netherlands, it'll sorta be like TBP, and they won't be able to do a darn thing.

WT-Fawaki
Location:
Amsterdam

ftw

Gf

From: Rubix
i think since we are based in the Netherlands, it'll sorta be like TBP, and they won't be able to do a darn thing.

Where is freddy based? They shut him(rs-hacking) down… but that was based on client hacking.

From: mormonman
Where is freddy based? They shut him(rs-hacking) down… but that was based on client hacking.

They contacted his hosting company directly. He had no contact with them from what he told me.

He was also painting a target on himself with the name "RS Hacking".

From: senrath
He was also painting a target on himself with the name "RS Hacking".

Rs bot, RSBots, etc.

From: mormonman
Where is freddy based? They shut him(rs-hacking) down… but that was based on client hacking.

Freddy is based in Belgium AFAIK.

RSBot is back. Development has been taken over by "a Chinese guy". Nonetheless, it's extremely buggy right now. It might be the end of it. EDIT: If anyone wants to take a chance, buy a ton of generally botted resources right now, they'll probably skyrocket :)
EDIT: RSBot is functional again after "the Chinese guy" committed V1.01.

From: Qauters
Because of recent actions we can no longer maintain the bot ourselves. However luckily a Chinese guy took over the development (since the bot is open-source ). He released the bot on www.sourceforge.net (search for rsbot).

What does this means for us, nothing! This site is mainly focused on its community and we will only discuss it and give you guys the place to write scripts for it. We do this for educational purposes only, since our goal is to improve the Java community by teaching you guys the art of Java Programming.

This site will not directly link to the bot, since although the bot itself does not contain any copyrighted material and the bot is legal in the country where it's currently developed.

It's 100% legal in the Netherlands to discuss this software, the software is open-source and was previously written by over 100 developers, nobody owns it and nobody can take it down, simply because everyone can modify and distribute this software.

A small note:
We do NOT allow any copyrighted material to be posted on this forum, if you see any please use the report button or contact us at: [email]admin@rsbot.org[/email]

- The bot will still be updated etc. but NOT by me, by the chinese guy, and i didn't get sued. Also, i don't want to see any direct links to the bot download, if you want to download it search for it at the link i gave you before. You will be infracted/warned and your thread/post will be removed.

Hahahahaha, "a chinese guy". Smart move

From: The Claw
Hahahahaha, "a chinese guy". Smart move

Yeah lol, exactly my thoughts :P

This was the letter sent to Qauters (translated): http://pastie.org/private/tusn9xf0g7pv9lgacmfw

Hmm, I'm scared to use it now though, can we trust the new dev/devs to not keylog us?!

From: YoHoJo
Hmm, I'm scared to use it now though, can we trust the new dev/devs to not keylog us?!

I'm going to take a wild guess and say this 'chinese guy' is Qauters under a proxy.

If not, it has to be someone Qauters knows well. There's no way 'the chinese guy' could have learned to update and maintain RSBot overnight.

From: YoHoJo
Hmm, I'm scared to use it now though, can we trust the new dev/devs to not keylog us?!

IT'S OPEN SOURCE :duh: If you think it's a keylogger read the sauce. :rolleyes:

The bottom line is, althought Qauters tried faking a owner move he can and will still get trouble.

Jagex have been building evidence on the cases since November last year, if Qauters thinks he can simply remove the SVN and direct links to the bot and host it on sourceforge under a new alias and get no trouble he is more foolish than I thought.

Jagex will have evidence against them already and when they find out he's done this it will just give them more of a reason to pew pew.

From: RSBot SourceForge page
An educational opensource implementation to emulate human actions and behavior on java applets.

Is that what they're calling it, these days?

Edit: Best part: They only have the JAR available for download. You can't get at the source unless you take the time to decompile the class files.
Edit2: Ignore me, I was temporarily blind.

From: senrath
Is that what they're calling it, these days?

Edit: Best part: They only have the JAR available for download. You can't get at the source unless you take the time to decompile the class files.

http://rsbot.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/rsbot/

Ah. Well, it wasn't obvious. Unless I'm blind.

Edit: Guess I'm just blind. Silly me.

I assume that these two chaps were from USA? because how else could they sue under american Law, Jagex are English, which means a precedent set in american court would only apply to another company based in the USA, which i think SRL ISN'T (correct me if im wrong there) and they would have to start from scratch IF they did decide to sue SRL. Is RSBot and the one they are suing from the United States?

From: Bad Boy JH
I assume that these two chaps were from USA? because how else could they sue under american Law, Jagex are English, which means a precedent set in american court would only apply to another company based in the USA, which i think SRL ISN'T (correct me if im wrong there) and they would have to start from scratch IF they did decide to sue SRL. Is RSBot and the one they are suing from the United States?

RSBot is in the Netherlands I think..

From: Bad Boy JH
I assume that these two chaps were from USA? because how else could they sue under american Law, Jagex are English, which means a precedent set in american court would only apply to another company based in the USA, which i think SRL ISN'T (correct me if im wrong there) and they would have to start from scratch IF they did decide to sue SRL. Is RSBot and the one they are suing from the United States?

Nexus/iBot = USA
RSBot = Formerly Netherlands (Qauters), now China (nobe09)
SRL = Netherlands

Notice how the USA ones didn't get off so easy? :(

From: ZaSz
Notice how the USA ones didn't get off so easy? :(

U.S.A! U.S.A! oh wait… :rolleyes:

From: ZaSz
Notice how the USA ones didn't get off so easy? :(

Land of the Free

From: Bebe
U.S.A! U.S.A! oh wait… :rolleyes:

Blame Canada ! :p

From: RAM
Blame Canada ! :p

[song]
With all their beady little eyes
And flapping heads so full of lies
[/song]

anybody else think quaters is the 'chinese guy'?

From: Rubix

anybody else think quaters is the 'chinese guy'?

That's what I thought, but according to Harry, he's not.

let me talk to that guy on rs bot in chinese, see if hes chinese or not :)

Well, rs-hacking.com is back. Apparently Jagex went straight to Freddy's host, and they pulled his site. So he switched hosts.

They cant sue SRL as it is owned by the community not by one individual (I would hope so lol)

cyro, fawki owns it.

I think this was discussed before. To be honest, Rsbot is so abused, I wouldnt mind if jagex killed it.

I'll be following up on this story.

It seems VERY interesting.

and yeah, in the U.S.A., if you have a good attorney or legal team, you are GOD! (well almost anyways)

well this is quite intresting lol.
of course SRL is safe <3