SRL Archive - News and General

SCAR is NOT the Problem!

Sure, we all agree SCAR has its flaws. Nonetheless, SRL has thrived with SCAR throughout the years. Why the rocky relationship all of a sudden? SRL has many problems to deal with, and Simba is not the answer to the most pressing ones. Scar will get better, it always has. The real problem is keeping up with Jagex. Color is ancient. I mean, it was good a couple years ago, but now, it's nearly impossible to keep up. The SRL Community as a whole is most likely the smartest of the botting scene. Why not make use of that? Why do we instead live in the past for a 'challenge' (which appears to be your main argument for color)? If you want a 'challenge', why don't you try perfecting SRL with color? Oh right, you can't, because jagex is too far ahead of us right now. So now, instead of sitting in the corner with 'advanced' color, which isn't getting the job done, we need to move on. Did we not create SRL with the goal of creating a successful autoing community? Why are we still in the stone age when everyone else has long since passed that?

This begins with fixing reflection. We began to actually become relevant during the time of the unsupported reflection. Our mistake was shunning it and basically leaving its whole fate in the hands of one man. And enough with all of the "Some people are working on reflection" and "We're going to support it now". It doesn't mean virtually anything until it is in SRL. We're not losing any of the 'challenge' since huge Reflection projects are just as hard as small color projects.

Has anyone noticed that RSBot solves EVERY random with ease? Why cant we use our resources (One of the smartest communities in the botting scenes) and get past color, its old. Plain and simple, it's NOT cutting it anymore. Its just not. Several people from SRL are moving to RSBot, Heck, Why not? Ok they lack a community, so what. Their scripts work with ease and creating something like an AIO skiller is no more complicated than creating a single, one dimensional script in color(which still only runs for a few hours before failing either by a random or by the script it self).Why aren't the leaders doing anything? SRL-Leaders, if you would only see the light and support reflection, everyone else would do the same. You have the power.

Fixing reflection and getting rid of color (Color could be kept for few things it is good at) would fix this problem completely.

Who's down to kick some jagex ass!?

Tl;dr: SRL has many imperfections. Fix it. If we can't fix it, make it easier to fix. To make it easier to fix, use Reflection. We're not losing any of the 'challenge' since huge Reflection projects are just as hard as small color projects. There is no more downside to reflection, if we worked like the smart community that we are, we could build an updater to update the hooks just hours after an update.

I agree that reflection is awesome, and if it is revived, who says you can't still use pure color or color as a backup? I think that the community would be a little more active if it was fixed, but that's just my 2 cents. ^.^

From: Lancelot074
I agree that reflection is awesome, and if it is revived, who says you can't still use pure color or color as a backup? I think that the community would be a little more active if it was fixed, but that's just my 2 cents. ^.^

I agree, except Colors useless, its too hard to keep updated and strong, and besides what could go wrong with reflection that color could fix?
If we devoted all our time to reflection, the possibilities are endless

[QUOTE=Camaro';682843]SCAR is NOT the Problem!

Sure, we all agree SCAR has its flaws. Nonetheless, SRL has thrived with SCAR throughout the years. Why the rocky relationship all of a sudden? SRL has many problems to deal with, and Simba is not the answer to the most pressing ones. Scar will get better, it always has.[/QUOTE]

No, SCAR is not the problem… it never has been the problem. Rather the problem is a minor annoying error or two which requires SCAR to be restarted and can become annoying when you're sugar high or overly excited or just doing a large amount of redundant work. It's not an all the sudden rocky relationship, people have been nagging for the SCAR source since before reflection or freddy even had it.. this is nothing new nor revelation completely separate from reflection and even simba.


[QUOTE=Camaro';682843]The real problem is keeping up with Jagex. Color is ancient. I mean, it was good a couple years ago, but now, it's nearly impossible to keep up. The SRL Community as a whole is most likely the smartest of the botting scene. Why not make use of that? Why do we instead live in the past for a 'challenge' (which appears to be your main argument for color)? If you want a 'challenge', why don't you try perfecting SRL with color? Oh right, you can't, because jagex is too far ahead of us right now. So now, instead of sitting in the corner with 'advanced' color, which isn't getting the job done, we need to move on. Did we not create SRL with the goal of creating a successful autoing community? Why are we still in the stone age when everyone else has long since passed that?

Yes the real problem is keeping up with Jagex, but it's not just a problem exclusive to SRL… it's a widespread problem that affects reflection just as much as color and even effects ingame players, merchants, the black market, and rs economy. Surely you understand that no one is here because 'interwebz is serious business' the purpose of SRL or of any forum is to have fun coding, to learn, and make friends. Not many people are "sitting in the corner" with reflection, it's just there is too few of people and lack of motivation for it to be fixed with SRL… people are trying to fix it but it just isn't happening… and everytime it breaks you're in the same boat… you just spent a week+ on a script to have it nerfed in a hour because there isn't a reliable reflection team around. Color is hardly the stone age at all, if you get good enough at it pretty much anything is possible… I have an abyssal space crafter with which walking has never failed, hell I have more trouble with the small things like unequiping Glories and using a good average wait time which is a logic problem.. not really something reflection can wave a wand at.

[QUOTE=Camaro';682843]This begins with fixing reflection. We began to actually become relevant during the time of the unsupported reflection. Our mistake was shunning it and basically leaving its whole fate in the hands of one man. And enough with all of the "Some people are working on reflection" and "We're going to support it now". It doesn't mean virtually anything until it is in SRL. We're not losing any of the 'challenge' since huge Reflection projects are just as hard as small color projects.

Reflection hasn't been shunned by anyone since it was first introduced by a person named solarwind, it was widely embraced after SMART supported it. Again, not many people are capable of even fixing reflection because it requires extensive java knowledge, something there is little to none easy tutorials to learn from for this specific purpose.. and it's very time consuming at that… a lot of us don't have the time to pick up java soley to single handedly fix reflection. To hell with putting reflection in the actual SRL include… there is already an entire replicate SRL with useless functions like R_BankScreen which can be done with a simple GetPixel… Huge reflection projects are no where near as hard a color projects. I could gather all the data for all the rune atlars put them in a variant array and have like 6 functions to make an every runecrafter just by gathering an array of numbers… that doesn't come anywhere near using trig to navigate the abyssal space.. and I'm not really learning or challenging myself by using path finders TPA export function.

[QUOTE=Camaro';682843]Has anyone noticed that RSBot solves EVERY random with ease? Why cant we use our resources (One of the smartest communities in the botting scenes) and get past color, its old. Plain and simple, it's NOT cutting it anymore. Its just not. Several people from SRL are moving to RSBot, Heck, Why not? Ok they lack a community, so what. Their scripts work with ease and creating something like an AIO skiller is no more complicated than creating a single, one dimensional script in color(which still only runs for a few hours before failing either by a random or by the script it self).Why aren't the leaders doing anything? SRL-Leaders, if you would only see the light and support reflection, everyone else would do the same. You have the power.

Has anyone noticed that RSBot has the power of reliable reflection, and their scripts are STILL poor? How can this even be? The majority of people that script for rsbot can't even make a simple script that utilizes the power of reflection, or it's some payscript that will probably die out at some point anyways. The random solving is sad, they don't break out of infinite loops and your players sits there for hours doing nothing, detectability anyone? Smart people would rather not get their accounts banned by faulty coding. People are always moving around communities, in the past month there has been 5 new SRL members, and a few new scripts. I'm sure the number of significant people that moved to rsbot weren't really vital to this community. Why must the SRL leaders do everything, what are the people that keep making these 'Reflection threads' doing about it? All the same, they are just posting long persuasive statements in hopes that someone else will fix it, when if they truly felt this way they would learn java their own and show results on how they could manage such a proposal. No, you have the power.

[QUOTE=Camaro';682843]

Fixing reflection and getting rid of color (Color could be kept for few things it is good at) would fix this problem completely.

[b] Who's down to kick some jagex ass!?

Tl;dr: SRL has many imperfections. Fix it. If we can't fix it, make it easier to fix. To make it easier to fix, use Reflection. We're not losing any of the 'challenge' since huge Reflection projects are just as hard as small color projects. There is no more downside to reflection, if we worked like the smart community that we are, we could build an updater to update the hooks just hours after an update.

Fixing reflection would help, yes, but getting rid of color would be like throwing away all excess food in a post apocalyptic world and wasting your valuable resources. SRL has so many imperfections because reflection was a distraction in the first place, it didn't used to be this way, and people are working hard to improve it to be better than ever before. If you want the hooks find them yourself, infact they are easy to get with RS.jar and notepad++ and if rsbot has them then everyone else will because the it's open source, the problem is knowing how to convert the raw information into usable data to interpret in SCAR which requires extensive java, math, and SCAR knowledge as well as time and will to accomplish. So it begs the question

Who is stopping you?

[QUOTE=Camaro';682845]I agree, except Colors useless, its too hard to keep updated and strong, and besides what could go wrong with reflection that color could fix?
If we devoted all our time to reflection, the possibilities are endless[/QUOTE]

:p Too hard to change a few colors? I don't think that's too hard to keep updated..

And what could go wrong with reflection? Oh.. I dunno.. Maybe something that keeps it down for months and months.. :p

I've nothing against ref/color/anything.. just saying that those aren't really valid points (that it's too hard to keep color updated, as usually it only requires a few pixel/color changes to fix).

I would of used reflection if it wasn't down for so long (It's just ridiculous that its been down this long) If someone would update it then maybe it would be good.

I agree on reflection comming back would be good, but colour HAS to stay alive. And it will.
I'm not saying that a good, big ref script is easy. I know it's not because I have experience in them but reflection is always a good backup.

I love how everyone bitches about reflection but no one cares to fix it. Just because you are uneducated doesn't give you the right to bitch about something/bitch about someone.

From: Blumblebee
I love how everyone bitches about reflection but no one cares to fix it. Just because you are uneducated doesn't give you the right to bitch about something/bitch about someone.

As IceFire stated it cannot be fixed just like that. You need more then just the idea.

From: i luffs yeww
:p Too hard to change a few colors? I don't think that's too hard to keep updated..

And what could go wrong with reflection? Oh.. I dunno.. Maybe something that keeps it down for months and months.. :p

I've nothing against ref/color/anything.. just saying that those aren't really valid points (that it's too hard to keep color updated, as usually it only requires a few pixel/color changes to fix).

Keeping color updated requires more than 'a pixel change'. I've never experienced it first-hand, but when something color breaks, you're going to be re-doing the whole thing. Nonetheless, this is beside Camaro's point. He's saying the Devs can't keep up with Jagex using color, which is true, there's no denying that. Just look at the state of the anti-randoms, for instance.

What could keep reflection down for months and months? Are you talking about RuneTek6? For one, game engine updates are not common, at all. Even if it was so, when SRL is down, devs usually fix it up pretty quickly, seeing as the community is absolutely dead without at least a somewhat functioning include. Therefore, if the community was centered around Reflection, it would be fixed equally as fast.

From: cycrosism
I would of used reflection if it wasn't down for so long (It's just ridiculous that its been down this long) If someone would update it then maybe it would be good.

That is what I believe the one problem is… Nobody knows how. Anyone who might have had a desire to learn has left since they saw no support; let's change that.

From: Floor66
I agree on reflection comming back would be good, but colour HAS to stay alive. And it will.
I'm not saying that a good, big ref script is easy. I know it's not because I have experience in them but reflection is always a good backup.

Why does color have to stay alive? What can color do that a well maintained reflection can't?

From: Blumblebee
I love how everyone bitches about reflection but no one cares to fix it. Just because you are uneducated doesn't give you the right to bitch about something/bitch about someone.

Yeah, of course a 15 year old barely in high school can learn everything about Java and how to manipulate a client made by a large foreign company, then proceed to do all the work to fix it. You're not looking at the big picture. The people ranting about Reflection are asking to come together and work as one to solve it. Nobody is going to get it done alone.

@Icefire: I would quote you word for word but I need my sleep.

Re: SCAR always being a problem: Even if it is a minor nuisance, why use all of the devs' time to develop Simba instead of the dieing include that its being made for? In doing so, you're putting an exhaust pipe on an old bicycle.

Re: Reflection/BCEL communities being affected by being left behind: Give me the names of the major communities and their problems, then I'll believe you.

Re: People are trying to fix reflection: It's an overwhelming task. The 'people trying to fix it' are probably working alone and hardly have any idea what they're doing. In the end, the whole project will be thrust on them, and it'll die again. SUPPORT is needed from the rest of the community. It seems the only way to give that support is the make Reflection primary.

Re: Reflection scripts are easier than Color scripts: You're probably right on this one. However, I'd wager that about 5% of SRL scripters use those sorts of complex trigonometric techniques and whatnot. It doesn't represent the majority.

Re: Color is not the stone age: You can make anything out of the simplest materials. But the quality of your materials * the amount of work you put in = the product. Increase the quality, keep the same amount of work, and you'll make a much better product. Right now, most people here are using stone and putting so much effort in making a car. Why not pick up some of metal that's just waiting to be used?

Re: People not having the knowledge to do reflection/not having time to learn it: You learned how to use SRL. You can do the same with reflection.

Re: RSBot scripts are poor: You clearly haven't visited RSBot in the last few years or so. Theoretically, they have all the randoms solved. In reality, over 90% of them work. Divide those numbers by 3 and you get SRL. Scripts not working? Scripts there run for hours on end, with none of the endless loops you mentioned. I recently made an RSBot script within two weeks of learning about RSBot along with basic java: It was by far superior to any SRL script I've ever made. As for their members not being intelligent: that is true, in part. Now, imagine RSBot, but with the members and intelligence of the SRL community?

Re: You have the power: See response to Blumble up above

Sure, we all agree SCAR has its flaws. Nonetheless, SRL has thrived with SCAR throughout the years. Why the rocky relationship all of a sudden? SRL has many problems to deal with, and Simba is not the answer to the most pressing ones. Scar will get better, it always has. The real problem is keeping up with Jagex.

Agreed, SCAR is not really the problem, we just need to be patient, nothing's 100% functional all the time, and Freddy is a busy man. This isn't some SCAR Vs Simba stuff, its just an alternative option, and open source like many people want. PEOPLE create the rivalry between the two. No problem here just two programs, friendly 'competition'

Color is ancient. I mean, it was good a couple years ago, but now, it's nearly impossible to keep up. The SRL Community as a whole is most likely the smartest of the botting scene. Why not make use of that? Why do we instead live in the past for a 'challenge' (which appears to be your main argument for color)? If you want a 'challenge', why don't you try perfecting SRL with color? Oh right, you can't, because jagex is too far ahead of us right now. So now, instead of sitting in the corner with 'advanced' color, which isn't getting the job done, we need to move on. Did we not create SRL with the goal of creating a successful autoing community? Why are we still in the stone age when everyone else has long since passed that?

It's our choice to auto with color. Its the challenge, fun, actually having to think of fun/creative/'advanced' etc ways to script besides
Repeat
ClickID(RockID)
DropOres
Until(False)
that's no fun. We CHOOSE to use color, and script the harder way, its fun for us, we like it! Do not compare color scripting to reflection, its not a competition, its a choice. Ref is for speed/accuracy/ 'scripting fun'.
Color is for experience/challenge/programing knowledge and also 'scripting fun'

This begins with fixing reflection. We began to actually become relevant during the time of the unsupported reflection. Our mistake was shunning it and basically leaving its whole fate in the hands of one man. And enough with all of the "Some people are working on reflection" and "We're going to support it now". It doesn't mean virtually anything until it is in SRL. We're not losing any of the 'challenge' since huge Reflection projects are just as hard as small color projects.

Well only ONE MAN knows enough about java and the rsclinet to get it up and going it. No one wanted reflection to die it just happened. Many people tried/are trying to fix it, but its hard, as we dont have the proper knowledge to do so. When ref is/and will be alive again later, it will be developed and worked on a scripter for and la la la everything happy and great, but its dead right now, sorry. No one was anti-reflection, they just preferred to script with color, that's all. So once/if its ever fixed, you can have your happy perfect world again.

Has anyone noticed that RSBot solves EVERY random with ease? Why cant we use our resources (One of the smartest communities in the botting scenes) and get past color, its old. Plain and simple, it's NOT cutting it anymore. Its just not. Several people from SRL are moving to RSBot, Heck, Why not? Ok they lack a community, so what. Their scripts work with ease and creating something like an AIO skiller is no more complicated than creating a single, one dimensional script in color(which still only runs for a few hours before failing either by a random or by the script it self).Why aren't the leaders doing anything? SRL-Leaders, if you would only see the light and support reflection, everyone else would do the same. You have the power.

^Same as above. We are not reflection based and driven sorry. Rsbot/Ibot are, since you want that SOOOOO BADLY why not go there? Like you said many are leaving srl for rsbot/ibot, you can too! (We'd like you to say, or be a part of both, we love ALL MEMBERS!). But nothing/no one is stopping you from doing what you are asking us to do, learn java, learn rsbot/ibot coding, go to that community, use their scripts, make scripts, be happy! But still save some <3 for scar/simba/srl :]! You will always be welcome here too!


Yea color is 'worse, inefficient, harder, cry moan complain' but it is what SRL/SCAR/SIMBA has been/is/will be all about. Color coding is to teach you much more about programing, techniques, challenges, and its just SO MUCH MORE different than reflection scripting. You brain has to think so much differently and there is just so many more options when going about scripting with color.

I hate when people compare color to ref bots/techniques. They are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS WITH TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PURPOSES to me! Stop comparing! You have BOTH options so choose whichever you like more, what the heck is stopping you.
Also
Stop crying and saying that no one cares about reflection. LOTS of people do, its just broken, and we have a lack of people with enough knowledge to fix it, sorry about that, but once it's fixed it'll be back and kicking ass just like before.

If you wan SCAR relelfection fixed, wait it out, come back later when it is.
If you want efficiency, randoms solved, fast scripts, reflection stuff NOW, head over to RsBot/iBot, learn java scripting, use their scripts.

Don't bitch at the Amish people for using candles when you have a light bulb in your house!

[No hard feelings or anything at all in case this sounded harsh towards you! <3]

From: YoHoJo
Agreed, SCAR is not really the problem, we just need to be patient, nothing's 100% functional all the time, and Freddy is a busy man. This isn't some SCAR Vs Simba stuff, its just an alternative option, and open source like many people want. PEOPLE create the rivalry between the two. No problem here just two programs, friendly 'competition'



It's our choice to auto with color. Its the challenge, fun, actually having to think of fun/creative/'advanced' etc ways to script besides
Repeat
ClickID(RockID)
DropOres
Until(False)
that's no fun. We CHOOSE to use color, and script the harder way, its fun for us, we like it! Do not compare color scripting to reflection, its not a competition, its a choice. Ref is for speed/accuracy/ 'scripting fun'.
Color is for experience/challenge/programing knowledge and also 'scripting fun'



Well only ONE MAN knows enough about java and the rsclinet to get it up and going it. No one wanted reflection to die it just happened. Many people tried/are trying to fix it, but its hard, as we dont have the proper knowledge to do so. When ref is/and will be alive again later, it will be developed and worked on a scripter for and la la la everything happy and great, but its dead right now, sorry. No one was anti-reflection, they just preferred to script with color, that's all. So once/if its ever fixed, you can have your happy perfect world again.




^Same as above. We are not reflection based and driven sorry. Rsbot/Ibot are, since you want that SOOOOO BADLY why not go there? Like you said many are leaving srl for rsbot/ibot, you can too! (We'd like you to say, or be a part of both, we love ALL MEMBERS!). But nothing/no one is stopping you from doing what you are asking us to do, learn java, learn rsbot/ibot coding, go to that community, use their scripts, make scripts, be happy! But still save some <3 for scar/simba/srl :]! You will always be welcome here too!


Yea color is 'worse, inefficient, harder, cry moan complain' but it is what SRL/SCAR/SIMBA has been/is/will be all about. Color coding is to teach you much more about programing, techniques, challenges, and its just SO MUCH MORE different than reflection scripting. You brain has to think so much differently and there is just so many more options when going about scripting with color.

I hate when people compare color to ref bots/techniques. They are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS WITH TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PURPOSES to me! Stop comparing! You have BOTH options so choose whichever you like more, what the heck is stopping you.
Also
Stop crying and saying that no one cares about reflection. LOTS of people do, its just broken, and we have a lack of people with enough knowledge to fix it, sorry about that, but once it's fixed it'll be back and kicking ass just like before.

If you wan SCAR relelfection fixed, wait it out, come back later when it is.
If you want efficiency, randoms solved, fast scripts, reflection stuff NOW, head over to RsBot/iBot, learn java scripting, use their scripts.

Don't bitch at the Amish people for using candles when you have a light bulb in your house!

[No hard feelings or anything at all in case this sounded harsh towards you! <3]

Well I guess here is the turning point. I suppose SRL is not an autoing community, but rather a programming community. I probably should have noticed this earlier instead of trying to convince myself that SRL's interests were predominantly to be better at RS, which I only realized a couple months ago and converted.

Now, I ask, since SRL is about the challenge of programming aspect, why bother with OpenGL or Reflection aspects at all?

I would reply to everything you said but I'm too lazy to read, anyways lets get started :)

From: Tad

What could keep reflection down for months and months? Are you talking about RuneTek6? For one, game engine updates are not common, at all. Even if it was so, when SRL is down, devs usually fix it up pretty quickly, seeing as the community is absolutely dead without at least a somewhat functioning include. Therefore, if the community was centered around Reflection, it would be fixed equally as fast.

reflection is down for months and months because Method got tired of working to maintain his updater, and with the creation of runetek5, Method had to rewrite most of the updater to which he did not have the time nor the er [for lack of a better word] enthusiasm, or maybe drive would be a better word.

besides if we were reflection whats the difference between us and Rsbot?

From: Tad

Yeah, of course a 15 year old barely in high school can learn everything about Java and how to manipulate a client made by a large foreign country, then proceed to do all the work to fix it. You're not looking at the big picture. The people ranting about Reflection are asking to come together and work as one to solve it. Nobody is going to get it done alone.

I am looking at the big picture, everyone's all in to "do something" and by do something they mean pretend to help while one or two people slave away and do everything and in the meantime attempt to make themselves look like hero's for contributing one line on the scar side of the development.

if you care to truly help method (or anyone else) fix it, go learn Java, spend the time reading the SMART source, and try to understand the hooks in RSbot and shit. 10 people with no knowledge of Java would simply hound and slow down the person who is doing all the work in the end.

sorry if I came off as rude, I don't mean to be. I just feel sympathetic for method at times due to the enormous amount of pressure people attempt to apply to him to fix reflection. And I know you'll say "well I didn't even mention Method" but lets be serious, the resurrection of reflection would only come if method played a part in it, even a small part.

TAD not exactly what I said. When ref is back we will be BOTH programing and autoing, and we DO CARE about autoing too, its just harder, but possible with color. I'll elaborate more tomorrow. Night.

From: Blumblebee
I would reply to everything you said but I'm too lazy to read, anyways lets get started :)



reflection is down for months and months because Method got tired of working to maintain his updater, and with the creation of runetek5, Method had to rewrite most of the updater to which he did not have the time nor the er [for lack of a better word] enthusiasm, or maybe drive would be a better word.

besides if we were reflection whats the difference between us and Rsbot?



I am looking at the big picture, everyone's all in to "do something" and by do something they mean pretend to help while one or two people slave away and do everything and in the meantime attempt to make themselves look like hero's for contributing one line on the scar side of the development.

if you care to truly help method (or anyone else) fix it, go learn Java, spend the time reading the SMART source, and try to understand the hooks in RSbot and shit. 10 people with no knowledge of Java would simply hound and slow down the person who is doing all the work in the end.

sorry if I came off as rude, I don't mean to be. I just feel sympathetic for method at times due to the enormous amount of pressure people attempt to apply to him to fix reflection. And I know you'll say "well I didn't even mention Method" but lets be serious, the resurrection of reflection would only come if method played a part in it, even a small part.

SRL isn't made up of one person doing all the work; there's a group of devs who do it. Camaro was proposing the same, just with Reflection. As for what the difference between SRL and RSBot would be? SRL is made up of a more intelligent community, meaning SRL would be superior to RSBot; that's the difference.

But, as I said in my last post, this doesn't really matter. SRL isn't about autoing. What I don't understand is why bother with Reflection at all…

EDIT: Yohojo: I don't understand that. You're not going to auto successfully without committing to autoing. Yet, you're not going to commit to autoing without giving up the type of challenge you get with color. The way I see it, a middle path isn't worth it.

EDIT: You say 'when' ref is back as if somebody is hard at work on it and someone is planning to maintain it, yet this thread is full of how nobody wants to do either of those things. I don't see it coming back. If it does, it'll probably get washed away again unless SRL changes its philosophy (which won't happen).

From: Blumblebee
I would reply to everything you said but I'm too lazy to read, anyways lets get started :)



reflection is down for months and months because Method got tired of working to maintain his updater, and with the creation of runetek5, Method had to rewrite most of the updater to which he did not have the time nor the er [for lack of a better word] enthusiasm, or maybe drive would be a better word.

besides if we were reflection whats the difference between us and Rsbot?



I am looking at the big picture, everyone's all in to "do something" and by do something they mean pretend to help while one or two people slave away and do everything and in the meantime attempt to make themselves look like hero's for contributing one line on the scar side of the development.

if you care to truly help method (or anyone else) fix it, go learn Java, spend the time reading the SMART source, and try to understand the hooks in RSbot and shit. 10 people with no knowledge of Java would simply hound and slow down the person who is doing all the work in the end.

sorry if I came off as rude, I don't mean to be. I just feel sympathetic for method at times due to the enormous amount of pressure people attempt to apply to him to fix reflection. And I know you'll say "well I didn't even mention Method" but lets be serious, the resurrection of reflection would only come if method played a part in it, even a small part.

First off, Sorry to come off rude? You told me to stop bitching>.>

Second, What makes us different from RSBot? Well, one, we are SRL, two they are RSBot.
Does that make it clearer for you? RSBot - > SRL

SRL = 100's of Genius's
RSBot = 5 genius's
Third, How do you know that only 2 people would work on reflection.

Fourth.

"Tad"

"
Well I guess here is the turning point. I suppose SRL is not an autoing community, but rather a programming community. I probably should have noticed this earlier instead of trying to convince myself that SRL's interests were predominantly to be better at RS, which I only realized a couple months ago and converted.

Now, I ask, since SRL is about the challenge of programming aspect, why bother with OpenGL or Reflection aspects at all?
"

Answer please..

If only you guys put all this energy towards something constructive, like fixing reflection

You are all assuming that everyone hates ref and doesn't care about it. We do, but we don't know didly about java/runescape client, so we can't fix it, sorry. Maybe someday eventually someone will learn and fix it. And once that does happen, we can be a strong thriving COLOR and REFLECTION community and you can all be happy.

Until then, stop complaining, and switch to RsBot/iBot. We don't care to hear about how much we such, how inefficient we are, and how much better other bots all. We know, everyone knows, and frankly NO ONE CARES.
Get to switching, and stop the bitching!

Well I guess here is the turning point. I suppose SRL is not an autoing community, but rather a programming community. I probably should have noticed this earlier instead of trying to convince myself that SRL's interests were predominantly to be better at RS, which I only realized a couple months ago and converted.

Now, I ask, since SRL is about the challenge of programming aspect, why bother with OpenGL or Reflection aspects at all?

We are both! We care about community, teaching, learning, programing. We care about reflection, efficient, being a good bot. Since reflection is broken now, and we have a lack of people to fix it, we are doing the best we can with what we have. Once reflection is fixed, you can be happy again.
SRL is a COMMUNITY no one person chooses 'what we are about' all people want different things. The once's who want color will stick with it, and code with it. The ones who want openGL/Reflection will stick with it, and code with it. The people who want ref w/ color backup and vise versa will do that. And the ones who care about autoing will choose whatever the hell works best.

Stop the bitching and get to swtiching!

I don't think that SRL should go all reflection but I do believe reflection is the best way to go. When scripting with colour, I get a challenge and in the end, I'm proud of myself with what I've done. Scripting with colour has made me a way better scripter and I can find more ways to make things fast and efficient. Most reflection is quite simple and I don't really have that much fun scripting with it but it kicks ass! Botting isn't about using scripts that were challenging to make, it's about getting levels up and making money the fastest you can without getting banned.

Some color functions can be just as accurate as reflection function. Some functions aren't that good to reflection… so how about incorporate both in scripts? SRL should still have colour in it and it always should.

Also, SCAR has been quite a problem for me… I always have to restart SCAR multiple times when I'm beginning to auto or are scripting. Something needs to be done about those errors!

I by myself am making a reflection bots that's starting to kick ass and I've worked with RSPSs for years. I have the knowledge to fix reflection. Next week, I'll have a week off of school so I will have the time to fix reflection. So, next week I'll be fixing reflection.

Reflection won't be very strong if not a lot of people have java knowledge. If only a few people know how to work with reflection, it won't go very far. We need a lot of people to learn java before SRL goes reflection. If SRL were to go reflection immediately, what if reflection broke and nobody was able to fix it? SRL could just die. SRL will be colour for a long time.

Colour scripts are pretty stable and will keep working most of the time after an update, while reflection will need to get a hook update which could take days. Although, people could easily steal hooks from RSBot…

SRL will stay colour for a long while, but, there will always be reflection close by.

Edit: I've been running Tarajunky's chicken killer for 75 hours straight and not a single random… we just need to make scripts where it switches players often and auto on a whole bunch of accounts with the one script.

[QUOTE=Camaro';682845]I agree, except Colors useless, its too hard to keep updated and strong, and besides what could go wrong with reflection that color could fix?
If we devoted all our time to reflection, the possibilities are endless[/QUOTE]

The only reason you, or anyone else would find color to be useless is because you don't know how to use it properly. I constantly make color scripts and they all work. I made an IvyChopper a couple months back and just ran it today for 4+ hours. It's 100% color and didn't require me to update anything.

That's why reflection bugs me, it makes people stop thinking and just doing things the easy way. Don't get me wrong, I respect those who use reflection when needed, or sometimes for fun, but if you rely on Reflection to make a script work (I will remain nameless, though it's not hard to tell who you are) then I see no reason to applaud that. Anyone could do that.

• Sry. Disagree Camaro. Over the last three years I have been involved in the cheating scene colorbotting has not become more difficult. True, Jackex has somewhat dynamified its interface, but apart from that, things are pretty much the same. It's the same old static interface, the same old boring repetitive game, the same old pixelrelated game. I am convinced I could still write a 100% perfect Lumby - Falador walker based on colors… just as I did two years ago. so: Colotbotting has not become more difficult!
• On the subject of reflection: it is a league I dont play. This is where the copyright infringement pops into vision. We do not infringe any copyright (apart maybe from the chattextfont…all the rest is almost strictly legal). It is true, we are the only surviving legal cheaters!…probably in the whole world. To me, this is a very big deal. I am a MasterThieve, I have honour, I am not a raper of the game.
• So, why do other commumnities thrive, and is SRL such a marginal player? Well, the answer to that is pretty simple…it is money.There is no money in SRL, apart from the investments I have done over the last years. But if you where to calculate the countless hours others have invested into SRL, you'd be amazed how much its worth in terms of knowledge. But indeed, the lack of money in this community is what keeps us marginal. But would you really want all the trouble of money? Look what it does to all the other communities. They are either a complete scam, no matter how professional they look, I would not trust them with my creditcardnumber, or filled with badbreathed illtempered youngsters fulminating over 5$. No, I am very glad we dont do this, although it might just work here right now because we are a true community, and have been for over three years…and hopefully will stay that in the years to come.
• Which brings me to the fourth pont and the reason why I started SRL in the first place. I know we have helped 1000's of young people from all over the globe starting up programming, serving them with a broader understanding of logic and mathematics and social -albiet ASCII- interaction. I am convinced it has helped them not only becoming better at school, but also becoming a deeper person.
• Now, this may sound all trivial to you since you might be very preoccupied with gaining profit from RS, but to me this is far beyond the point. True, SRL has been in a better state, but most of us are busy with real life. Anyone questioning the legitimacy of SRL has not understood its roots.

What maybe could be questioned is the lack of organisation and leadership. Then you would be referring directly to me. Yes indeed, mea culpa, I have paused cheating 1 1/2 year, too busy irl, no time whatsoever…and I still dont really have time at all, with 60 hours of work each week. But I have found good admins, good mods and honest people by my side who have helped and enhanced SRL beyond my wildests dreams. This is what keeps the community alive, my friend.

And I will make you this promise: SRL will survive, and we will be the last man standing, as we have been the first to see the light. You'd be amazed.

I think it is ridiculous to state that SCAR is not a/the problem. I tried running a script in it last night to see if it gave the same results as Simba, and I really simply couldn't get it to run more than 5 minutes. Sure, SRL contains some poor coding; but that should never be able to crash SCAR. However, SCAR does crash. May it be from poor coding in SRL or poor coding in SCAR. I run SCAR, it immediately gives me a DIB error. Camaro, thanks for making me laugh in real life. SCAR has not become better, it's a mess. Even Freddy himself says so. Stop saying it isn't.

Reflection won't change anything. If you want to use pure Reflection, go to another community/bot. SCAR was and is not really made to use Reflection. If you want to use it properly, then seek a better program.

@TAD: I see you're dropping in again… I thought you rageleft?
Anyway, the problem is not support.

The people who want to use Reflection can't update it themselves, doesn't that tell you enough? It isn't "hard" to update. If it was, then rsbot would have trouble doing that too. Since virtually every other reflection uses some sort of java hack to cheat within cheating RuneScape, it isn't too hard to copy their code. Most of them are open, too.

The problem is not that colour simple doesn't cut it; the problem is the way it is currently being used. I took a look at SRL (with Raymond) for the first time in months, and found several bugs instantly. Colour will do fine.

EDIT:

Missed this first, so true…

From: The Claw
If only you guys put all this energy towards something constructive, like fixing reflection

Addind on to previous points, SRL is just NOT ABLE to go fully reflection. Stop dreaming about. Why?

Very simple, most of us are NOT PROFICIENT in java. There's only a handful - if even so - who would be able to really manage reflection. And from those, none really has the time to do so.

SRL is outdated? Yes, I suspect it might be. Most devs have passed the age to really feel like cheating for RS and now we just do it either for challenge or love for the communitty since we know that the include must stay active for you guys to keep on enjoying it.

What is possible with reflection is generally harder with color. It's true. It takes more creativity, more work. But it's doable all the same;

And why Simba? We're open source. That's a big part of the philosophy behind SRL. You can learn from all the resources here. I for instance have no idea how I'd code something like Scar/Simba, but now that I have a source to look at, I could learn.

I think I should point out that Fawk's point is very obvious about what this communitty brings you, how it makes you develop.

No money is used here, your only way up the ranks is maturity, decision making skills and scripting skills.

And from scripting to programming the gap is not so huge. I used my SRL Developer status for my Uni application. It was a big factor that got me in. What you learn here you can actually end up having a job out of it.

~RM

From: Rasta Magician
Addind on to previous points, SRL is just NOT ABLE to go fully reflection. Stop dreaming about. Why?

Very simple, most of us are NOT PROFICIENT in java. There's only a handful - if even so - who would be able to really manage reflection. And from those, none really has the time to do so.

SRL is outdated? Yes, I suspect it might be. Most devs have passed the age to really feel like cheating for RS and now we just do it either for challenge or love for the communitty since we know that the include must stay active for you guys to keep on enjoying it.

What is possible with reflection is generally harder with color. It's true. It takes more creativity, more work. But it's doable all the same;

And why Simba? We're open source. That's a big part of the philosophy behind SRL. You can learn from all the resources here. I for instance have no idea how I'd code something like Scar/Simba, but now that I have a source to look at, I could learn.

I think I should point out that Fawk's point is very obvious about what this communitty brings you, how it makes you develop.

No money is used here, your only way up the ranks is maturity, decision making skills and scripting skills.

And from scripting to programming the gap is not so huge. I used my SRL Developer status for my Uni application. It was a big factor that got me in. What you learn here you can actually end up having a job out of it.

~RM

Ok, so maybe SRL couldn't go 100% Reflection seeing as what Trilez has brought up, thats okay though. Have reflection the primary of SRL.

From: Wizzup?
I think it is ridiculous to state that SCAR is not a/the problem. I tried running a script in it last night to see if it gave the same results as Simba, and I really simply couldn't get it to run more than 5 minutes. Sure, SRL contains some poor coding; but that should never be able to crash SCAR. However, SCAR does crash. May it be from poor coding in SRL or poor coding in SCAR. I run SCAR, it immediately gives me a DIB error. Camaro, thanks for making me laugh in real life. SCAR has not become better, it's a mess. Even Freddy himself says so. Stop saying it isn't.

Reflection won't change anything. If you want to use pure Reflection, go to another community/bot. SCAR was and is not really made to use Reflection. If you want to use it properly, then seek a better program.

@TAD: I see you're dropping in again… I thought you rageleft?
Anyway, the problem is not support.

The people who want to use Reflection can't update it themselves, doesn't that tell you enough? It isn't "hard" to update. If it was, then rsbot would have trouble doing that too. Since virtually every other reflection uses some sort of java hack to cheat within cheating RuneScape, it isn't too hard to copy their code. Most of them are open, too.

The problem is not that colour simple doesn't cut it; the problem is the way it is currently being used. I took a look at SRL (with Raymond) for the first time in months, and found several bugs instantly. Colour will do fine.

EDIT:

Missed this first, so true…

I never said scar wasn't a problem, its not the problem that were to be worrying about. I never said scar has become better, i was stating that freddy always gets around to fixing it. I'm glad you had a good laugh :).

Don't you see that when we had reflection with smart months ago, SRL was at a peak?

From: WT-Fakawi

• Sry. Disagree Camaro. Over the last three years I have been involved in the cheating scene colorbotting has not become more difficult. True, Jackex has somewhat dynamified its interface, but apart from that, things are pretty much the same. It's the same old static interface, the same old boring repetitive game, the same old pixelrelated game. I am convinced I could still write a 100% perfect Lumby - Falador walker based on colors… just as I did two years ago. so: Colotbotting has not become more difficult!
• On the subject of reflection: it is a league I dont play. This is where the copyright infringement pops into vision. We do not infringe any copyright (apart maybe from the chattextfont…all the rest is almost strictly legal). It is true, we are the only surviving legal cheaters!…probably in the whole world. To me, this is a very big deal. I am a MasterThieve, I have honour, I am not a raper of the game.
• So, why do other commumnities thrive, and is SRL such a marginal player? Well, the answer to that is pretty simple…it is money.There is no money in SRL, apart from the investments I have done over the last years. But if you where to calculate the countless hours others have invested into SRL, you'd be amazed how much its worth in terms of knowledge. But indeed, the lack of money in this community is what keeps us marginal. But would you really want all the trouble of money? Look what it does to all the other communities. They are either a complete scam, no matter how professional they look, I would not trust them with my creditcardnumber, or filled with badbreathed illtempered youngsters fulminating over 5$. No, I am very glad we dont do this, although it might just work here right now because we are a true community, and have been for over three years…and hopefully will stay that in the years to come.
• Which brings me to the fourth pont and the reason why I started SRL in the first place. I know we have helped 1000's of young people from all over the globe starting up programming, serving them with a broader understanding of logic and mathematics and social -albiet ASCII- interaction. I am convinced it has helped them not only becoming better at school, but also becoming a deeper person.
• Now, this may sound all trivial to you since you might be very preoccupied with gaining profit from RS, but to me this is far beyond the point. True, SRL has been in a better state, but most of us are busy with real life. Anyone questioning the legitimacy of SRL has not understood its roots.

What maybe could be questioned is the lack of organisation and leadership. Then you would be referring directly to me. Yes indeed, mea culpa, I have paused cheating 1 1/2 year, too busy irl, no time whatsoever…and I still dont really have time at all, with 60 hours of work each week. But I have found good admins, good mods and honest people by my side who have helped and enhanced SRL beyond my wildests dreams. This is what keeps the community alive, my friend.

And I will make you this promise: SRL will survive, and we will be the last man standing, as we have been the first to see the light. You'd be amazed.

Honestly, thats well spoken wt-fawki. But I didnt knew you would give anyone over the internet your credit card number. Didn't knew you can trust someone you haven't met in real life yet with your CC #

From: TRiLeZ
I don't think that SRL should go all reflection but I do believe reflection is the best way to go. When scripting with colour, I get a challenge and in the end, I'm proud of myself with what I've done. Scripting with colour has made me a way better scripter and I can find more ways to make things fast and efficient. Most reflection is quite simple and I don't really have that much fun scripting with it but it kicks ass! Botting isn't about using scripts that were challenging to make, it's about getting levels up and making money the fastest you can without getting banned.

Some color functions can be just as accurate as reflection function. Some functions aren't that good to reflection… so how about incorporate both in scripts? SRL should still have colour in it and it always should.

Also, SCAR has been quite a problem for me… I always have to restart SCAR multiple times when I'm beginning to auto or are scripting. Something needs to be done about those errors!

I by myself am making a reflection bots that's starting to kick ass and I've worked with RSPSs for years. I have the knowledge to fix reflection. Next week, I'll have a week off of school so I will have the time to fix reflection. So, next week I'll be fixing reflection.

Reflection won't be very strong if not a lot of people have java knowledge. If only a few people know how to work with reflection, it won't go very far. We need a lot of people to learn java before SRL goes reflection. If SRL were to go reflection immediately, what if reflection broke and nobody was able to fix it? SRL could just die. SRL will be colour for a long time.

Colour scripts are pretty stable and will keep working most of the time after an update, while reflection will need to get a hook update which could take days. Although, people could easily steal hooks from RSBot…

SRL will stay colour for a long while, but, there will always be reflection close by.

Edit: I've been running Tarajunky's chicken killer for 75 hours straight and not a single random… we just need to make scripts where it switches players often and auto on a whole bunch of accounts with the one script.

Ahh…
1. If Reflection was the primary part of SRL(and color was backup), then it would take an hour or two to update the hooks.

2. You made a good point on the what if it turns out that no one could fix reflection, that is why we should keep color, but put most of our time and effort into reflection. Ok, i may of said to 'f' color in the main post, so my opinion has changed seeing these posts.

From: YoHoJo
We are both! We care about community, teaching, learning, programing. We care about reflection, efficient, being a good bot. Since reflection is broken now, and we have a lack of people to fix it, we are doing the best we can with what we have. Once reflection is fixed, you can be happy again.
SRL is a COMMUNITY no one person chooses 'what we are about' all people want different things. The once's who want color will stick with it, and code with it. The ones who want openGL/Reflection will stick with it, and code with it. The people who want ref w/ color backup and vise versa will do that. And the ones who care about autoing will choose whatever the hell works best.

Stop the bitching and get to swtiching!

I'm not bitching.

From: YoHoJo
You are all assuming that everyone hates ref and doesn't care about it. We do, but we don't know didly about java/runescape client, so we can't fix it, sorry. Maybe someday eventually someone will learn and fix it. And once that does happen, we can be a strong thriving COLOR and REFLECTION community and you can all be happy.

Until then, stop complaining, and switch to RsBot/iBot. We don't care to hear about how much we such, how inefficient we are, and how much better other bots all. We know, everyone knows, and frankly NO ONE CARES.
Get to switching, and stop the bitching!

I'm not bitching.

From: The Claw
If only you guys put all this energy towards something constructive, like fixing reflection

:duh:




I would like everyone to no, that i'm not bitching, i'm stating my opinion. Whats so bad about that? People like yohojo and blumblebee if you think then i'm bitching then i'm sorry, cause I dont think i am.

K. Two small things.

• Color fails right now. Reflection is the future.
• But it is SCAR too. SCAR keeps crashing with the DIB handle error, keeps throwing off the colors and you need to close it, etc. But what you say is true, color is ancient.

Color is like hitting two rocks together to make a fire, whilst reflection is using a lighter.

Grantit, if reflection is fixed, I will still use color for fun and for the enjoyment of a challenge, but reflection needs to be fixed. We need to start using reflection. Don't be afraid of change, change is good. Without change we would still be bleeding people hoping that will heal what ever sickness they have.

I say fix reflection!

EDIT: Before responding to any of my responses to your quotes, please answer my question at the end of this post.

From: YoHoJo
We are both! We care about community, teaching, learning, programing. We care about reflection, efficient, being a good bot. Since reflection is broken now, and we have a lack of people to fix it, we are doing the best we can with what we have. Once reflection is fixed, you can be happy again.
SRL is a COMMUNITY no one person chooses 'what we are about' all people want different things. The once's who want color will stick with it, and code with it. The ones who want openGL/Reflection will stick with it, and code with it. The people who want ref w/ color backup and vise versa will do that. And the ones who care about autoing will choose whatever the hell works best.

Stop the bitching and get to swtiching!

I already switched. Right now, I was/am trying to figure out why you guys don't want to improve (in the botting aspect), and I see why.

As for reflection being fixed, who's fixing it and who's ready to maintain it?

From: TRiLeZ

Some color functions can be just as accurate as reflection function. Some functions aren't that good to reflection… so how about incorporate both in scripts? SRL should still have colour in it and it always should.

Also, SCAR has been quite a problem for me… I always have to restart SCAR multiple times when I'm beginning to auto or are scripting. Something needs to be done about those errors!

Colour scripts are pretty stable and will keep working most of the time after an update, while reflection will need to get a hook update which could take days. Although, people could easily steal hooks from RSBot…

I don't believe there's anything reflection struggles with. All the same, yes, a little bit of color would be beneficial, but, if you want to become a superior botting community (which is not SRL's goal), you would need to have take the backseat to Reflection.

Edit: I've been running Tarajunky's chicken killer for 75 hours straight and not a single random… we just need to make scripts where it switches players often and auto on a whole bunch of accounts with the one script.

Armies are nearly pointless nowadays. If you're limited to things like chicken fighting with a bunch of level 3's, you're not bound for success.

From: WT-Fakawi

• Sry. Disagree Camaro. Over the last three years I have been involved in the cheating scene colorbotting has not become more difficult. True, Jackex has somewhat dynamified its interface, but apart from that, things are pretty much the same. It's the same old static interface, the same old boring repetitive game, the same old pixelrelated game. I am convinced I could still write a 100% perfect Lumby - Falador walker based on colors… just as I did two years ago. so: Colotbotting has not become more difficult!

I think the point Camaro was trying to make is that SRL can't keep up (using color) with everything Jagex has been doing. If there was a well maintained reflection, not only could the Devs find time to make anti-randoms, but other people could contribute as well.

[*]On the subject of reflection: it is a league I dont play. This is where the copyright infringement pops into vision. We do not infringe any copyright (apart maybe from the chattextfont…all the rest is almost strictly legal). It is true, we are the only surviving legal cheaters!…probably in the whole world. To me, this is a very big deal. I am a MasterThieve, I have honour, I am not a raper of the game.

Copyright infringement? I don't know much about copyrights, but if that was true, why wouldn't Jagex get rid of most botters by just shutting down every Java bot? As for honor, I don't see the point of honor whilst cheating on an online video game, but that's a difference of opinion I suppose.

[*]So, why do other commumnities thrive, and is SRL such a marginal player? Well, the answer to that is pretty simple…it is money.There is no money in SRL, apart from the investments I have done over the last years. But if you where to calculate the countless hours others have invested into SRL, you'd be amazed how much its worth in terms of knowledge. But indeed, the lack of money in this community is what keeps us marginal. But would you really want all the trouble of money? Look what it does to all the other communities. They are either a complete scam, no matter how professional they look, I would not trust them with my creditcardnumber, or filled with badbreathed illtempered youngsters fulminating over 5$. No, I am very glad we dont do this, although it might just work here right now because we are a true community, and have been for over three years…and hopefully will stay that in the years to come.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean not enough money has been invested in SRL? Or are you talking about the exclusion of a public black market and the like? I'm guessing the latter, which I agree is a major reason why SRL isn't a large community. But, other than that, you just don't see the same quality (by quality I mean botting quality, not scripting quality) or quantity of scripts at SRL, in addition to the flaws of the include.

[*]Which brings me to the fourth pont and the reason why I started SRL in the first place. I know we have helped 1000's of young people from all over the globe starting up programming, serving them with a broader understanding of logic and mathematics and social -albiet ASCII- interaction. I am convinced it has helped them not only becoming better at school, but also becoming a deeper person.

This is true, and this is what I didn't realize up until a few months ago. Logic, yes, though I would argue that any type of programming requires and teaches logic. Mathematics? Maybe I've been missing something, but, like I said in one of my other posts, it seems to me only about 5% of scripters actually utilize the advanced mathematics that can come with SRL. Social… Yes, that is what SRL is best at; having a good community.

[*]Now, this may sound all trivial to you since you might be very preoccupied with gaining profit from RS, but to me this is far beyond the point. True, SRL has been in a better state, but most of us are busy with real life. Anyone questioning the legitimacy of SRL has not understood its roots.

That's what Camaro was suggesting; an antidote to the lack of time that most Devs experience. But, again, that's not SRL's philosophy.

From: Wizzup?
I think it is ridiculous to state that SCAR is not a/the problem. I tried running a script in it last night to see if it gave the same results as Simba, and I really simply couldn't get it to run more than 5 minutes. Sure, SRL contains some poor coding; but that should never be able to crash SCAR. However, SCAR does crash. May it be from poor coding in SRL or poor coding in SCAR. I run SCAR, it immediately gives me a DIB error. Camaro, thanks for making me laugh in real life. SCAR has not become better, it's a mess. Even Freddy himself says so. Stop saying it isn't.

He stated it was a problem, but not the [main] problem. I see this not as an attack at Simba, but rather a proposed change in philosophy.

@TAD: I see you're dropping in again… I thought you rageleft?\

Yes, I did. I don't SCAR script, vote on applications, or the like anymore.

Anyway, the problem is not support.

The people who want to use Reflection can't update it themselves, doesn't that tell you enough? It isn't "hard" to update. If it was, then rsbot would have trouble doing that too. Since virtually every other reflection uses some sort of java hack to cheat within cheating RuneScape, it isn't too hard to copy their code. Most of them are open, too.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. "Doesn't that tell you enough?" - What does it tell me? It tells me nobody is motivated enough to actually update it. You're telling everyone who wants reflection to either build up and maintain it or go to another bot. Most are probably doing the latter; in effect killing any chance of bringing it back.

The problem is not that colour simple doesn't cut it; the problem is the way it is currently being used. I took a look at SRL (with Raymond) for the first time in months, and found several bugs instantly. Colour will do fine.

Again, like I said above, an antidote to, primarily the time, it takes to make something color would be reflection.

Most of my arguments above are assuming SRL wants to become a better autoing community, which is not the case, so I guess they don't apply. What I don't understand now is how you can try to do both: become great autoers yet keep the challenges of color there. I'm not satisfied with Yohojo's response. If you support reflection or OpenGL, most new scripters will take one or the other instead of color (Most of you came here with the intention of RS botting, not programming, so it's reasonable to think people would choose the more advanced techniques). Your goal is to give people the experience of coding with many challenges, correct? By supporting those things, you are, in effect, vastly decreasing the 'challenge' that you're looking are. Again, I don't see a middle route as being feasible.

Please, no flaming. I'm genuinely interested as to what the reasoning behind this is. I don't know the answer to my question, I'm looking for a logical response.

Nono Camo, it is ok. No problems here:) Respect your views and more then welcome to state them of course

From: WT-Fakawi
Nono Camo, it is ok. No problems here:) Respect your views and more then welcome to state them of course

Thanks dude :)

From: Tad
EDIT: Before responding to any of my responses to your quotes, please answer my question at the end of this post.



I already switched. Right now, I was/am trying to figure out why you guys don't want to improve (in the botting aspect), and I see why.

As for reflection being fixed, who's fixing it and who's ready to maintain it?



I don't believe there's anything reflection struggles with. All the same, yes, a little bit of color would be beneficial, but, if you want to become a superior botting community (which is not SRL's goal), you would need to have take the backseat to Reflection.



Armies are nearly pointless nowadays. If you're limited to things like chicken fighting with a bunch of level 3's, you're not bound for success.




I think the point Camaro was trying to make is that SRL can't keep up (using color) with everything Jagex has been doing. If there was a well maintained reflection, not only could the Devs find time to make anti-randoms, but other people could contribute as well.


Copyright infringement? I don't know much about copyrights, but if that was true, why wouldn't Jagex get rid of most botters by just shutting down every Java bot? As for honor, I don't see the point of honor whilst cheating on an online video game, but that's a difference of opinion I suppose.


I'm not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean not enough money has been invested in SRL? Or are you talking about the exclusion of a public black market and the like? I'm guessing the latter, which I agree is a major reason why SRL isn't a large community. But, other than that, you just don't see the same quality (by quality I mean botting quality, not scripting quality) or quantity of scripts at SRL, in addition to the flaws of the include.



This is true, and this is what I didn't realize up until a few months ago. Logic, yes, though I would argue that any type of programming requires and teaches logic. Mathematics? Maybe I've been missing something, but, like I said in one of my other posts, it seems to me only about 5% of scripters actually utilize the advanced mathematics that can come with SRL. Social… Yes, that is what SRL is best at; having a good community.


That's what Camaro was suggesting; an antidote to the lack of time that most Devs experience. But, again, that's not SRL's philosophy.



He stated it was a problem, but not the [main] problem. I see this not as an attack at Simba, but rather a proposed change in philosophy.


Yes, I did. I don't SCAR script, vote on applications, or the like anymore.



I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. "Doesn't that tell you enough?" - What does it tell me? It tells me nobody is motivated enough to actually update it. You're telling everyone who wants reflection to either build up and maintain it or go to another bot. Most are probably doing the latter; in effect killing any chance of bringing it back.



Again, like I said above, an antidote to, primarily the time, it takes to make something color would be reflection.

Most of my arguments above are assuming SRL wants to become a better autoing community, which is not the case, so I guess they don't apply. What I don't understand now is how you can try to do both: become great autoers yet keep the challenges of color there. I'm not satisfied with Yohojo's response. If you support reflection or OpenGL, most new scripters will take one or the other instead of color (Most of you came here with the intention of RS botting, not programming, so it's reasonable to think people would choose the more advanced techniques). Your goal is to give people the experience of coding with many challenges, correct? By supporting those things, you are, in effect, vastly decreasing the 'challenge' that you're looking are. Again, I don't see a middle route as being feasible.

Please, no flaming. I'm genuinely interested as to what the reasoning behind this is. I don't know the answer to my question, I'm looking for a logical response.

+10000

From: bionicle1800
K. Two small things.

• Color fails right now. Reflection is the future.
• But it is SCAR too. SCAR keeps crashing with the DIB handle error, keeps throwing off the colors and you need to close it, etc. But what you say is true, color is ancient.

Color is like hitting two rocks together to make a fire, whilst reflection is using a lighter.

Grantit, if reflection is fixed, I will still use color for fun and for the enjoyment of a challenge, but reflection needs to be fixed. We need to start using reflection. Don't be afraid of change, change is good. Without change we would still be bleeding people hoping that will heal what ever sickness they have.

I say fix reflection!

And using Colour right is like making a fire with a flame thrower…

[OFFTOPIC]Wtf is wrong with reflection anyway? I know it doesn't work.. but why? I was gone for awhile… PM me, kthx. [/OFFTOPIC]

From: Timer
And using Colour right is like making a fire with a flame thrower…

[OFFTOPIC]Wtf is wrong with reflection anyway? I know it doesn't work.. but why? I was gone for awhile… PM me, kthx. [/OFFTOPIC]

RuneTek 5 updated which made all of the math on reflection wrong. Getting the hooks is not a problem.

Not really, even if you made a deadly script in color, randoms suck so bad that once you would get a random it would stop the script. (+ more chance of banhammer)

Reflection you could fix all the randoms, + make the same deadly script with ease.

As we have seen from our past experiences with reflection you cannot just "maintain" reflection next to (colour) SRL. They both require full attention, and we simply don't have the man power to fill in this requirement. And as our roots lay in Colour-bots, it seems logically we would keep developing this part of RS-botting.

After all, it wouldn't make sense to make a fully reflection-driven bot in Delphi with an interpreter. That would just require a full javabot..


EDIT: And yes, atm both are broken. But for me it would just be impossible to fix reflection, as I have no clue how it works..

Let me ask you this,
Why does SRL have such good scripters?

In my opinion it's because colour scripting promotes skillful scripting where as reflection doesn't. If SRL became a reflection-based include, I strongly believe the quality of scripters would decrease, the forum would become flooded with RSBot-like leachers and the community as a whole would start to become similar to RSBot's.

I would also like to ask you,
Why would people come to SRL if it were primarily a reflection include?

I say this, because RSBot is much more established as a successful bot. It also is much easier to setup - you just download and run - and all it requires is Java being installed.

Lastly, I want to ask you,
Why should SRL switch to reflection?

As time showed, just about no one actually knows enough about it at SRL. So why should SRL give up everything and chase after a non-working system? I seriously want an answer - if reflection is so hard to learn and everything else, then why should SRL give up on something that at least works to chase after something so difficult to learn that everyone who wants reflection back couldn't learn? If you want SRL to switch, then you're just being an idiot while there is no working reflection include at all.

From: mixster
Let me ask you this,
Why does SRL have such good scripters?

In my opinion it's because colour scripting promotes skillful scripting where as reflection doesn't. If SRL became a reflection-based include, I strongly believe the quality of scripters would decrease, the forum would become flooded with RSBot-like leachers and the community as a whole would start to become similar to RSBot's.

I would also like to ask you,
Why would people come to SRL if it were primarily a reflection include?

I say this, because RSBot is much more established as a successful bot. It also is much easier to setup - you just download and run - and all it requires is Java being installed.

Lastly, I want to ask you,
Why should SRL switch to reflection?

As time showed, just about no one actually knows enough about it at SRL. So why should SRL give up everything and chase after a non-working system? I seriously want an answer - if reflection is so hard to learn and everything else, then why should SRL give up on something that at least works to chase after something so difficult to learn that everyone who wants reflection back couldn't learn? If you want SRL to switch, then you're just being an idiot while there is no working reflection include at all.

People would come to SRL the same reason people come now, COLOR wont be eliminated completely.

Why would srl switch to reflection?

To advance!

I'm not saying(anymore) that srl should go 100% Reflection. It should be more primary then it was before though.

You pretty much ignored my point though - reflection has been down for how long now? In all that time, no one else has been able to learn how reflection works well enough to be able to start it up again, yet you want the entire community to take to this method, especially when there isn't even a currently working version?

From: mixster
You pretty much ignored my point though - reflection has been down for how long now? In all that time, no one else has been able to learn how reflection works well enough to be able to start it up again, yet you want the entire community to take to this method, especially when there isn't even a currently working version?

Touche

I bet if we worked together, it could get done.

Then instead of telling the rest of the community to do it, get together with other people who want to and do it.

Lead by example. Iron with words.

I like your way of thinking, but I tink you might still be missing the main point.

There are very few people who are able to fix reflection right now. And out of those, no one really has the time.

Problem 1: Getting reflection fixed.

If reflection breaks again, we're fixless again. Maybe if there's an updater. But if there's an engine change again?

Problem 2: See Problem 1

Now maybe we do fix it now and do get an updater an jagex doesn't change their engine for the ext two years. After two years of SRL basing itsel on reflection, there is an engine change. Color hasn't been the main for so long that it doesn't work propery at all. We've given up on color antiramdoms a long time ago.

Problem 3: See Problem 2
Problem 4: Color SRL Failing
Problem 5: SRL = DEAD

~RM

Will people fucking stop bitching about fixing reflection? If it was easy shit for anyone to be assed to do it, it would have been done, but the problem is you can't do client-hacking shit (although we are discussing copying what RSBot does) by learning a bit there and a bit there u need to learn Step 1 to learn Step 2 etc…

Also,

Did we not create SRL with the goal of creating a successful autoing community?

So are we driving on competing Java bots by using Java in-directly through plugins in PascalScript?

IDEA!

How about all you kids that struggle with color so much that you must relate to begging for a reflection fix leave and go to a different community?! Your obviously here for the wrong reasons anyways..

IMO you don't deserve to be here if your not willing to learn. You people are exactly the same as the "leechers" we try to keep out. Only with falsely rewarded scripting cups…

From: NCDS
IDEA!

How about all you kids that struggle with color so much that you must relate to begging for a reflection fix leave and go to a different community?!

IMO you don't deserve to be here if your not willing to learn. You people are exactly the same as the "leechers" we try to keep out, only with falsely rewarded scripting cups…

Did you read anything that was being said? It's not that colour scripting is hard for us, it is the fact that it is limited because Jagex is further ahead. Reflection is better suited to the current version of runescape.
Readb4post pl0x.

From: bionicle1800
Did you read anything that was being said? It's not that colour scripting is hard for us, it is the fact that it is limited because Jagex is further ahead. Reflection is better suited to the current version of runescape.
Readb4post pl0x.

Th''ts why I call your cups "underserved". Use some creativity. I agree that some things may be a bit difficult to do in Scar alone. That's why we have plugins…

From: bionicle1800
Did you read anything that was being said? It's not that colour scripting is hard for us, it is the fact that it is limited because Jagex is further ahead. Reflection is better suited to the current version of runescape.
Readb4post pl0x.

I can powermine with my colour script. Can you with your reflection script?

Honestly, why doesn't everyone who wants to use reflection fix their stuff first…?
IMO, Colour is the way to go. It is challenging, educational, and stable. Sure, we may not solve all the randoms, but we're the most random and undetectable macro out there.

From: NCDS
Th''ts why I call your cups "underserved". Use some creativity. I agree that some things may be a bit difficult to do in Scar alone. That's why we have plugins…

*ahem*

From: bionicle1800
Grantit, if reflection is fixed, I will still use color for fun and for the enjoyment of a challenge,

I am creative in my scripting. I enjoy making color scripts. I don't give a rats ass what you think, but I am creative and imo our cups were deserved otherwise they wouldn't have been granted to us.
I am not saying stop color scripting. I am saying re-introduce reflection along side color. Each one has their own advantages. Don't bash us for wanting that.

From: bionicle1800
*ahem*



I am creative in my scripting. I enjoy making color scripts. I don't give a rats ass what you think, but I am creative and imo our cups were deserved otherwise they wouldn't have been granted to us.
I am not saying stop color scripting. I am saying re-introduce reflection along side color. Each one has their own advantages. Don't bash us for wanting that.

I apologize, I didn't so much mean that YOU didn't deserve your cups, although that is what I typed..I remember a few people though going on a Reflection scripting rampage until they got they're cups. Then they disappeared, only to return and not even know how to run Scar/SRL..pathetic I know. Those are more so the people I was talking about.

I have much respect for you as somewhat of a "SRL newcomer", I just don't want to see SRL end up a mindless community do to the ease of the scripting if we were to switch to reflection.


I also prefer color because it keep the leechers out. Color scripting takes dedication, reflection doesn't. Would you rather have dedicated users here at the forums? or a bunch of brainless pre teens eager for RSGP?

Lack of experience is what you're all using as the main argument against reflection: Completely reasonable. However, several SRL Devs (IIRC) are proficient with creating and maintaining reflection. However, they don't have the time or desire to do so. Now, if they were to be convinced that others would pick up the slack and keep it running, all they would have to do is create a couple tutorials or provide a few links and maybe update reflection the first time. Again, though, I don't see this happening because SRL isn't success-in-RS oriented. You guys have yet to answer my final question in my last post, which I what I would like to know most

From: n3ss3s

So are we driving on competing Java bots by using Java in-directly through plugins in PascalScript?

I apologize, my statement was incorrect. And yes, you're right, SRL is not made to compete with Java bots, nor does it appear to have a desire to (whether the reasons for this are good or not is merely opinion).

From: NCDS
IDEA!

How about all you kids that struggle with color so much that you must relate to begging for a reflection fix leave and go to a different community?! Your obviously here for the wrong reasons anyways..

We're not asking for a reflection fix. We're asking for an SRL fix. We're suggesting to do that by using reflection, but obviously that's not working out.

From: Wizzup?
I can powermine with my colour script. Can you with your reflection script?

Yes. In fact I had created one that was more efficient and customizable than any color powerminer had been.

Honestly, why doesn't everyone who wants to use reflection fix their stuff first…?
IMO, Colour is the way to go. It is challenging, educational, and stable. Sure, we may not solve all the randoms, but we're the most random and undetectable macro out there.

Random and undetectable is heavily debatable. In addition, it's impossible to be most undetectable if you can't solve half of the randoms. Challenging - yes. Educational - yes. Stable - probably. However, all of those, except perhaps stability, pertain to the scripting, not the autoing part of the whole process. I understand that SRL wants the challenge, etc, which brings me back to my previous point…

Most of my arguments above are assuming SRL wants to become a better autoing community, which is not the case, so I guess they don't apply. What I don't understand now is how you can try to do both: become great autoers yet keep the challenges of color there. I'm not satisfied with Yohojo's response. If you support reflection or OpenGL, most new scripters will take one or the other instead of color (Most of you came here with the intention of RS botting, not programming, so it's reasonable to think people would choose the more advanced techniques). Your goal is to give people the experience of coding with many challenges, correct? By supporting those things, you are, in effect, vastly decreasing the 'challenge' that you're looking are. Again, I don't see a middle route as being feasible.

From: NCDS
I apologize, I didn't so much mean that YOU didn't deserve your cups, although that is what I typed..I remember a few people though going on a Reflection scripting rampage until they got they're cups. Then they disappeared, only to return and not even know how to run Scar/SRL..pathetic I know. Those are more so the people I was talking about.

I have much respect for you as somewhat of a "SRL newcomer", I just don't want to see SRL end up a mindless community do to the ease of the scripting if we were to switch to reflection.


I also prefer color because it keep the leechers out. Color scripting takes dedication, reflection doesn't. Would you rather have dedicated users here at the forums? or a bunch of brainless pre teens eager for RSGP?

Sorry I misinterpreted what you said.
My solution to that would be as it was before, unofficially, SRL member apps could be color scripts only to show skill and knowledge. Reflection can be around for things it is good for, e.g., random solving. It will improve on all scripts and they won't run for 2 hours and shut down because it couldn't solve the maze.

From: bionicle1800
Sorry I misinterpreted what you said.
My solution to that would be as it was before, unofficially, SRL member apps could be color scripts only to show skill and knowledge. Reflection can be around for things it is good for, e.g., random solving. It will improve on all scripts and they won't run for 2 hours and shut down because it couldn't solve the maze.

I DO agree that in some random solvers reflection would be very useful. I'm waiting to see how this new OpenGL stuff works out for that.

I don't believe cups should be rewarded though for Reflection work as it is no where near the difficulty of color, nor is it part of SRL.

Regardless, it is easy to tell who the true members of this community are.

@Tad, join RSBot. You will fit in better there.

I don't know if you guys notice, but 75%+ of this community doesn't care about RS at all. We script for fun. Not for ease and RSGP.

From: NCDS
I DO agree that in some random solvers reflection would be very useful. I'm waiting to see how this new OpenGL stuff works out for that.

I don't believe cups should be rewarded though for Reflection work as it is no where near the difficulty of color, nor is it part of SRL.

Regardless, it is easy to tell who the true members of this community are.

Yes, I do agree with the cups. Reflection is too easy to script with, but it is better then color in some ways.
But color does have its advantages ;)

I think everyone knows my stance on this, but im just glad its not just me who gets attacked when I post somthing about reflection

From: NCDS

@Tad, join RSBot. You will fit in better there.

I already did… Stop telling me to go away, what am I doing wrong? I'm simply suggesting a way for SRL to improve, why is that a crime?

From: Tad
Lack of experience is what you're all using as the main argument against reflection: Completely reasonable. However, several SRL Devs (IIRC) are proficient with creating and maintaining reflection.

From: RM

There are very few people who are able to fix reflection right now. And out of those, no one really has the time.

Benland100, Method, Yakman and maybe wizzup are those who as far as my knowledge goes would be able to fix reflection.

Plus Method is too busy, and so is Benland althugh he is now giving a hand as far as I know. Yakman is generally inactive and Wizzup dislikes Java and is already busy with uni + simba + color + RL.

if by several you mean 4, then yes.

Finally, n3ss has the best point. We'd be using a pascal interpreter with pluggins todo java stuff VS a java bot. RSBot would own us big time.

~RM

One more thing…

I do not mean to "attack" reflection users in my posts. If used correctly it can be a very powerful tool. I just despise people who only use reflection because they can't use color.

From: Rasta Magician
Benland100, Method, Yakman and maybe wizzup are those who as far as my knowledge goes would be able to fix reflection.

Plus Method is too busy, and so is Benland althugh he is now giving a hand as far as I know. Yakman is generally inactive and Wizzup dislikes Java and is already busy with uni + simba + color + RL.

if by several you mean 4, then yes.

Finally, n3ss has the best point. We'd be using a pascal interpreter with pluggins todo java stuff VS a java bot. RSBot would own us big time.

~RM

I'm not going to dig through and find out who is and isn't, but here is who else I think has the power to (correct me if I'm wrong):

Naike?
Mormonman
Nava2

All it takes is 1-2 people with the support of the community, and it can probably be done. As for using pascal vs Java for Java, that is a good point, which brings us back to…

Nonetheless, you guys have already stated you want programming challenges to take precedence over RS success, so this is somewhat irrelevant. A logical answer to my question (last couple posts) would probably clear everything up…

EDIT: @NCDS - I doubt there are many reflection scripters who are simply incapable or not intelligent enough to use color. Personally, I don't have a desire to, because creating a color script brings little benefit to those who wish to use it to auto. Sure, it might be more educational, but that's the line between SRL's philosophy and other bots'.

From: Rasta Magician
Benland100, Method, Yakman and maybe wizzup are those who as far as my knowledge goes would be able to fix reflection.

Plus Method is too busy, and so is Benland althugh he is now giving a hand as far as I know. Yakman is generally inactive and Wizzup dislikes Java and is already busy with uni + simba + color + RL.

if by several you mean 4, then yes.

Finally, n3ss has the best point. We'd be using a pascal interpreter with pluggins todo java stuff VS a java bot. RSBot would own us big time.

~RM

Just wanted to add that J_Pizzle is currently learning Java and is going to try to fix reflection by himself ^.^

From: bionicle1800
Just wanted to add that J_Pizzle is currently learning Java and is going to try to fix reflection by himself ^.^

He doesn't understand much of the SCAR side of reflection, which is a bigger issue than learning Java to understand the RS client.

From: Tad
Sure, it might be more educational, but that's the line between SRL's philosophy and other bots'.

That is very true, which is why I don't see why this is constantly such a "hot topic". Why don't some of you reflection "elitists" help silentwolf with his OpenGL experiments?

Just to point out, I've tried to fix this..
and I failed.. Hard.

I even made Method ignore me a few times :p, it was really that bad.

Just close this, as it has no logic thinking behind it, at all.
I was once like that.. but if you actually think, we lack knowledge.

To be honest, that should be the end of this thread..
No point in to argue over something, which we can't fix.

WE LACK KNOWLEDGE

From: Naike
Just to point out, I've tried to fix this..
and I failed.. Hard.

I even made Method ignore me a few times :p, it was really that bad.

Just close this, as it has no logic thinking behind it, at all.
I was once like that.. but if you actually think, we lack knowledge.

To be honest, that should be the end of this thread..
No point in to argue over something, which we can't fix.

WE LACK KNOWLEDGE

but if we all put our heads together, eat rainbow kitties and sunshine, sit on our asses and wait for someone else and bitch in the meantime, I'm sure it will be fixed!

From: Blumblebee
but if we all put our heads together, eat rainbow kitties and sunshine, sit on our asses and wait for someone else and bitch in the meantime, I'm sure it will be fixed!

Trust me when I say this, We lack knowledge.

Me and RM sat down for two hours, and tbh, we didn't get much wiser.

Edit: Also, when RS decides to change something, so the SMART side gets broken..? then we're really screwed.
And just to make worst case scenario, Ben gets hit by a bus..? Now we're reeaaallly screwed.

(BenLand100 does not get hit by buses, BenLand100 hits buses)

From: NCDS
That is very true, which is why I don't see why this is constantly such a "hot topic". Why don't some of you reflection "elitists" help silentwolf with his OpenGL experiments?

1) I wouldn't know how (and don't have a desire to learn)
2) I believe OpenGL to be much more limited than reflection, from what I've seen so far

From: Naike
Just to point out, I've tried to fix this..
and I failed.. Hard.

I even made Method ignore me a few times :p, it was really that bad.

Just close this, as it has no logic thinking behind it, at all.
I was once like that.. but if you actually think, we lack knowledge.

To be honest, that should be the end of this thread..
No point in to argue over something, which we can't fix.

WE LACK KNOWLEDGE

I don't see how a community of such amazing intelligence lacks it when dealing with another topic (no, I'm not flaming SRL, I'm just implying that something is missing: support, motivation, etc., rather than simple lack of knowledge). EDIT: I suppose I may be wrong, and that it is simply not feasible for SRL. But the opinion that I'm seeing is beginning to form is that creating reflection is a greater challenge than color…which…Well, let's see what the response to that is.

From: Blumblebee
but if we all put our heads together, eat rainbow kitties and sunshine, sit on our asses and wait for someone else and bitch in the meantime, I'm sure it will be fixed!

Could you please stop randomly flaming everyone and instead contribute something meaningful to this conversation which was intended to be a suggestion, not a rant at how everything sucks?

From: Tad

I don't see how a community of such amazing intelligence lacks it when dealing with another topic (no, I'm not flaming SRL, I'm just implying that something is missing: support, motivation, etc., rather than simple lack of knowledge).

It's like having a dog maiowing..
Give up people, or go learn java, as hell sure I won't.

From: Tad
I don't see how a community of such amazing intelligence lacks it when dealing with another topic (no, I'm not flaming SRL, I'm just implying that something is missing: support, motivation, etc., rather than simple lack of knowledge). EDIT: I suppose I may be wrong, and that it is simply not feasible for SRL. But the opinion that I'm seeing is beginning to form is that creating reflection is a greater challenge than color…which…Well, let's see what the response to that is.

People lack the drive and intelligence to go out and learn something for themselves instead of being spoonfed it through a step-by-step tutorial.

Likely nobody noticed my edit, so I'll repost it:

EDIT: I suppose I may be wrong, and that it is simply not feasible for SRL. But the opinion that I'm seeing is beginning to form is that creating reflection is a greater challenge than color…which…Well, let's see what the response to that is.

Either it's more challenging (which SRL wants in the first place), or not challenging enough, which, according to Naike, is false. Or it's just the Java. Which brings us back to (still awaiting a response, any response to this..):

Most of my arguments above are assuming SRL wants to become a better autoing community, which is not the case, so I guess they don't apply. What I don't understand now is how you can try to do both: become great autoers yet keep the challenges of color there. I'm not satisfied with Yohojo's response. If you support reflection or OpenGL, most new scripters will take one or the other instead of color (Most of you came here with the intention of RS botting, not programming, so it's reasonable to think people would choose the more advanced techniques). Your goal is to give people the experience of coding with many challenges, correct? By supporting those things, you are, in effect, vastly decreasing the 'challenge' that you're looking are. Again, I don't see a middle route as being feasible.

EDIT: Method - Good point. It's not unwarranted though; if you go through the trouble of finding out yourself, you're going to run into a lot of useless information, and it will be tough to decipher what you need and don't need when you don't know what you need in the place.

Wow.. I've been gone for 2 days, and I cbf to read it all, but imo Color is the future, and has always been the best.

From: Tad
Likely nobody noticed my edit, so I'll repost it:
Either it's more challenging (which SRL wants in the first place), or not challenging enough, which, according to Naike, is false. Or it's just the Java. Which brings us back to (still awaiting a response, any response to this..):

And here is where you go wrong. You are talking about two different worlds.

One is the world where reflection is used in scar, which is what people commonly classify as easy.

The other world is one where you have to understand the whole RS Client and so on, which is beyond basic java.

You actually have to be proficient in java to understand how reflection works and where to get what you need, and if you're gonna go through the trouble of learning all that just to use reflection, you'll probably be better off at RSBot where reflection is currently working and where all the java you jsut learnt won't go to waste because they actually code in java.

~RM

From: Zyt3x
Wow.. I've been gone for 2 days, and I cbf to read it all, but imo Color is the future, and has always been the best.

Well, this thread was started less than 12 hours ago :)

I beg to differ; Color is the past. Summary of thread: This thread is about how SRL has fallen behind in development, most notably the anti-randoms. Wizzup himself mentioned that the include was in poor shape, though he disagrees with adding reflection. Camaro has proposed that fixing this would be best by implementing reflection (and this is not a plea for fixing reflection; it's a plea to fix SRL).

EDIT: @RM - All right. So fixing reflection for SRL isn't worth it because you would have to attain a vast amount of Java knowledge which would afterwards be virtually useless? Makes sense, thank you for clearing that up. Back to: Why work with reflection at all?

Most of my arguments above are assuming SRL wants to become a better autoing community, which is not the case, so I guess they don't apply. What I don't understand now is how you can try to do both: become great autoers yet keep the challenges of color there. I'm not satisfied with Yohojo's response. If you support reflection or OpenGL, most new scripters will take one or the other instead of color (Most of you came here with the intention of RS botting, not programming, so it's reasonable to think people would choose the more advanced techniques). Your goal is to give people the experience of coding with many challenges, correct? By supporting those things, you are, in effect, vastly decreasing the 'challenge' that you're looking are. Again, I don't see a middle route as being feasible.

From: Tad
Likely nobody noticed my edit, so I'll repost it:



Either it's more challenging (which SRL wants in the first place), or not challenging enough, which, according to Naike, is false. Or it's just the Java. Which brings us back to (still awaiting a response, any response to this..):



EDIT: Method - Good point. It's not unwarranted though; if you go through the trouble of finding out yourself, you're going to run into a lot of useless information, and it will be tough to decipher what you need and don't need when you don't know what you need in the place.

Bullshit. Reflection isn't hard to update, it's just that the people who can show no interest in doing so. And don't come telling me we can't. There are plenty of people who have done it in the past, and it hasn't become any harder.
(No, I won't do it. Perhaps when Simba works with SRL 4, and work on SRL 5 is started.)

From: Tad
I beg to differ; Color is the past. Summary of thread: This thread is about how SRL has fallen behind in development, most notably the anti-randoms. Wizzup himself mentioned that the include was in poor shape, though he disagrees with adding reflection. Camaro has proposed that fixing this would be best by implementing reflection (and this is not a plea for fixing reflection; it's a plea to fix SRL).

Perhaps try writing less biased summaries.

The SRL include isn't "fixed" by adding reflection, the include is fixed by putting some love in it. Something I am guilty of not doing myself, for over 18 months.

If you want to add Reflection to the core of SRL, go ahead and fork SRL. I don't care. It won't be added. For all the reasons I have stated in the past. I'm not going to post them for the 9001th time.
No, I am not short-sighted, but I am growing very tired of all you kiddos whining about Reflection. Why don't you just stay at RSBot if you like it much more there?

From: Tad
I beg to differ; Color is the past. Summary of thread: This thread is about how I think SRL has fallen behind in development, most notably the anti-randoms. Wizzup himself mentioned that the include was in poor shape, though he disagrees with adding reflection. Camaro has proposed that fixing this would be best by implementing reflection (and this is not a plea for fixing reflection; it's a plea to fix SRL).

fixed it for you, because opinions aren't facts ;) And it's not like RSbot is all that special. I was over learning java there for a while and their anti-randoms aren't 100%, they are actually much like SRL's in my opinion, although that may have changed recently who knows.

As for flaming, my apologizes. Sometimes I get a little testy when people don't read and listen but instead drive along with the same mentality, much like die-hard Christians :) (don't flame by die-hard I mean the people who think the world is 6000 years old). The fact is, no one wants to take the time to learn java proficiently enough to implement reflection, and lets be serious if I had to learn Java to fix it, I might aswell just go to a java bot instead of coming back and wasting my time at a pascal [interpreter] orientated bot.

Fact is color can never be patch, it can never be removed from the game. Thus, we will always remain, and remain the only color bot alive (afaik).

I still dont freaking get it.
All of you reflection wanters, go to RsBot/iBot and stop complaining to us.

We enjoy color, we dont care that its harder, less efficient, worse, not as good, not the best, etc etc! Big deal, leave us alone, we are happy and fine with it, you are not!


Reflection wanters stop complaining about color, because obviously lots of people are fine and content with it, and just go to RsBot/iBot and be happy there?!

Why are you all wanting us to change so badly when obviously we don't really want to (And reflection is damn broken/no one can fix it right now, so IF IT WAS FIXED we would be a strong color and reflection community, but right now we can't be, so sorry!)

I think it's a bit short-sighted to say that everyone who likes Reflections should leave this community.

From: Blumblebee
Fact is color can never be patch, it can never be removed from the game. Thus, we will always remain, and remain the only color bot alive (afaik).

Protip: No, but input functions from scar can ;)

From: n3ss3s
So are we driving on competing Java bots by using Java in-directly through plugins in PascalScript?

I think that says it all.. SRL is devoted to color finding routines, although the community has become more open minded towards new methods, we have and always will be based on color…if you want to use other methods, that's your choice, just know thre are other comunities that will better to support your choice…

I have mentioned my stance before….

I didn't use reflection in the past, but I still did what I could to help develop it, because it was intriguing…
And yes, I also had the mindset, "Hey, I'm going to be a hero and single handedly fix reflection"…..as mentioned…NOT THAT EASY !!!!

All I hear, is a bunch of people bitching about wanting it to be fixed, but actually doing nothing about it….

Please don't make posts trying to shove something down our throat that doesn't even work and you personally aren't doing anything to fix it….

@Tad, lost a lil respect for you in this thread….you're here just to stir shit up ?…you constantly compare oranges to apples…please see above post….

Well I think OpenGL was just alienated…

From: mastaraymond
I think it's a bit short-sighted to say that everyone who likes Reflections should leave this community.

Good point :garfield:

From: Wizzup?
Bullshit. Reflection isn't hard to update, it's just that the people who can show no interest in doing so. And don't come telling me we can't. There are plenty of people who have done it in the past, and it hasn't become any harder.
(No, I won't do it. Perhaps when Simba works with SRL 4, and work on SRL 5 is started.)

Well Naike said he & RM couldn't do it, so I assumed it was harder than it looks. If it's so easy, why can only a few people do it, and those who try to learn seem to have many troubles?

Perhaps try writing less biased summaries.

The SRL include isn't "fixed" by adding reflection, the include is fixed by putting some love in it. Something I am guilty of not doing myself, for over 18 months.

If you want to add Reflection to the core of SRL, go ahead and fork SRL. I don't care. It won't be added. For all the reasons I have stated in the past. I'm not going to post them for the 9001th time.
No, I am not short-sighted, but I am growing very tired of all you kiddos whining about Reflection. Why don't you just stay at RSBot if you like it much more there?

I don't see the bias in my 'summary'. All we're pointing out is that there are several flaws to SRL (again, the antirandoms being prevalent), and providing an opinion to a possible fix, which would help, don't deny that, in the botting point of view. As for staying away from here, why can I not provide my opinion as to how to make SRL better? I'm not trying to hurt you, I'm trying to help. Undoubtfully, that last sentence will be met with "Do something if you want to help"

@RAM - I'm not here to 'stir shit up'. I care about this community, and I'm sorry if my opinion on how to improve this is seen as a drama act… As for apples on oranges, my mistake, sorry. I didn't realize that fact (which RM brought up, the post I'm assuming you referred to. EDIT: Oh, you were referring to n3ss3s'. I don't think that was an unfair comparison; why bother with reflection/OpenGL at all if it's uncomparable?) when I wrote some of the things I did. Please point out if I'm making unfair comparisons, I never mean to do so.

And, for the umpteenth time:

Most of my arguments above are assuming SRL wants to become a better autoing community, which is not the case, so I guess they don't apply. What I don't understand now is how you can try to do both: become great autoers yet keep the challenges of color there. I'm not satisfied with Yohojo's response. If you support reflection or OpenGL, most new scripters will take one or the other instead of color (Most of you came here with the intention of RS botting, not programming, so it's reasonable to think people would choose the more advanced techniques). Your goal is to give people the experience of coding with many challenges, correct? By supporting those things, you are, in effect, vastly decreasing the 'challenge' that you're looking are. Again, I don't see a middle route as being feasible.

Maybe it's just me, but why is everyone being so hostile? I don't understand why Camaro and I must be hated for providing suggestions.

From: mastaraymond
I think it's a bit short-sighted to say that everyone who likes Reflections should leave this community.

I'm telling everyone who wants the SRL core to use Reflection to leave if they can't stand that it won't happen. Different thing. :)

From: Tad
Well Naike said he & RM couldn't do it, so I assumed it was harder than it looks. If it's so easy, why can only a few people do it, and those who try to learn seem to have many troubles?



I don't see the bias in my 'summary'. All we're pointing out is that there are several flaws to SRL (again, the antirandoms being prevalent), and providing an opinion to a possible fix, which would help, don't deny that, in the botting point of view. As for staying away from here, why can I not provide my opinion as to how to make SRL better? I'm not trying to hurt you, I'm trying to help. Undoubtfully, that last sentence will be met with "Do something if you want to help"

@RAM - I'm not here to 'stir shit up'. I care about this community, and I'm sorry if my opinion on how to improve this is seen as a drama act… As for apples on oranges, my mistake, sorry. I didn't realize that fact (which RM brought up, the post I'm assuming you referred to. EDIT: Oh, you were referring to n3ss3s'. I don't think that was an unfair comparison; why bother with reflection/OpenGL at all if it's uncomparable?) when I wrote some of the things I did. Please point out if I'm making unfair comparisons, I never mean to do so.

Your sudden leave was certainly an act of drama. And unjustified too, as JAD (and I) later showed.

From: Tad

And, for the umpteenth time:

SRL won't become a better macro community if it starts using reflection. It will become a typical example of the Xth Reflection bot that claims to do new things.

From: Tad
Well Naike said he & RM couldn't do it, so I assumed it was harder than it looks. If it's so easy, why can only a few people do it, and those who try to learn seem to have many troubles?

Neither me or RM have any experience/knowledge.. I think that's an adding factor to our great achievement of failure.

From: Tad

And, for the umpteenth time:

Supporting reflection won't give the challenge you speak of. To give people the challenge you're speaking of we'd have to support java in its entirety, not reflection.

And by supporting reflection rather than java as whole we also stop giving so much support to the skills you learn through color.

edit: @Naike: I do have some basic knowledge, as I do use it in uni althogh it's not an IT course.

~RM

From: Wizzup?


Your sudden leave was certainly an act of drama. And unjustified too, as JAD (and I) later showed.

Why bring the past into this? Yes, I agree I went over the top then, I was frustrated, sorry for that (although I don't agree with everything you said then, I'm not going to argue it, it's not worth it and neither of us will ever change our minds).

SRL won't become a better macro community if it starts using reflection. It will become a typical example of the Xth Reflection bot that claims to do new things.

That's not my point in the quote which you quoted. I'm questioning why SRL should support Reflection or OpenGL at all if the goal of SRL is to retain challenging scripts in color, which is what I gathered from everyone's responses. Simply put, I don't see how a half-working reflection benefits SRL.

EDIT: @RM, see above paragraph.

From: Tad

Maybe it's just me, but why is everyone being so hostile? I don't understand why Camaro and I must be hated for providing suggestions.

We aren't trying to be hostile. You are providing any suggestions at all, you are saying obvious things that everyone knows and has known forever. Yea sure, reflection is 'better in all ways' compared to color, we get what you're trying to tell us, yet we still like all of the aspects of color scripting! What are you trying to convince us of?! We all know you think ref is the shit, color is the shit [bad shit!] that's fine, use RsBot/iBot then, we aren't forcing you to use Color/SRL and we all know everyone thinks reflection is much better, but we just prefer color, weather you understand why we do or not.

From: Tad
Maybe it's just me, but why is everyone being so hostile? I don't understand why Camaro and I must be hated for providing suggestions.

Probably because this is by far NOT the first time this was made as a suggestion, and it always ends in the same arguments…..

SRL is devoted to color finding routines, although the community has become more open minded towards new methods, we have and always will be based on color…if you want to use other methods, that's your choice, just know thre are other comunities that will better to support your choice…

From: Rasta Magician
@Naike: I do have some basic knowledge, as I do use it in uni althogh it's not an IT course.

I was talking about the client/reflection :p, not java..

If there was a tutorial on how to look at the runescape source code and know how to translate that into math in SCAR I could fix reflection, but I'm not taking the time to learn java. The hooks are easy to get.

SCAR could compete with rsbot in terms of reflection, just because it's not a java bot like some of you say it is and will never compete in the java world, this isn't true. The plugin folder makes it possible (especially in the future with scar 3.5 luna and 4.0+ where compiling time run time will be near pure delphi) it's more about how reflection is used. I mean when you give reflection to an rsbot script kiddie the script isn't going to be nearly as good as if you gave it to anyone who is experienced in color botting, even if their base is entirely java and ours is kinda a rigged up plugin.

I really disagree with the randoms solving being impossible, just look through Iroki plugin.dpr source file… anything can be done in color with enough skill. And as far as I've seen

Lamp,Box ect.. - A high success rate
Abyss - High success rate
Evilbob - Since naum made his solver, a high success rate
Beekeeper - High success rate
Frog - A high success rate
Demon - A good success rate
Forester - A good success rate, probably a high one now with TriLez tweaking last night
Molly - A good success rate
Sandwich lady- A good success rate
Pillory - A good success rate, detecting if in the random still might need tweaking itself
Pinball - A good success rate
Quiz - A good success rate
Maze - Alright, but needs tweaking from game update. Naum is on it
Mime - Alright, but needs tweaking from game update. Naum is on it
Mordaut - Needs tweaking from game update
CapnArrav - Possible but needs tweaking from game update
Certer - Works a good success rate, but it doesn't know when to exit, a small fix.
Prison pete - You have 14 minutes before it blocks you out, I seriously doubt any bot out there has a reliable solver for this ATM.

Tell me, what does rsbot have?

When did anyone officially say SRL supported reflection or OpenGL intercepting? To my knowledge it has been permitted to be discussed etc on the forums and that's about it, but nothing about combining the includes or the like - just because some people want it to happen doesn't mean it will. What's more is it isn't ignorance through which people dismiss reflection like you so boldly suggest in your posts.

I think it's ignorance on your behalf. Why should a whole community convert to your views? You can always start your own community - if it's better then people will probably flock to it. If it isn't, then at least you haven't destroyed a large and vibrant community.

From: RAM
Probably because this is by far NOT the first time this was made as a suggestion, and it always ends in the same arguments…..

I never said it was, and the reason I came to this thread is because I was trying to finally comprehend the reasoning. All the past arguments ended with 'We want a challenge', or open ended things like that.

Here is what I've concluded…

• SRL wishes to keep color for the challenges it provides
• Programming challenges first; Autoing second
• Although the include is not functioning all that well, there is no desire to change anything because
• Lack of experience with other methods
• Unappealing (lack of) challenges in other methods
• Other methods are being used (sparingly), solely because a few members wish to try something different (IMO, I find this pointless, but I guess it's not up to SRL as to how the include and Scar/Simba are used)

Yes?

EDIT: Icefire:

Maze: (Perfect)
ScapeRune (Prison): (Works, but need some testing)
Bot Login: (Perfect)
Exam: (Perfect)
Frog: (Perfect)
Molly: (Perfect)
Quiz: (Perfect)
Pillory: (Perfect)
ScapeRune (Island): (Perfect)
Mime: (Perfect)
Pinball: (Perfect)
Bank Pins: (Perfect)
Beekeeper: (Perfect)
Break Handler: (Perfect)
Captain Arnav: (Perfect)
Certer: (Perfect)
Drill Demon: (Perfect)
First Time Death: (Perfect)
Freaky Forester: (Perfect)
Gravedigger: (Perfect)
Improved Reward Box: (Perfect)
Leave Safe Area (Perfect)
Lost and Found: (Perfect)
Sandwich Lady: (Perfect)
Welcome Screen: (Perfect)

Judging from recent user responses, there are 1-3 that may not have a 100% success rate.

From: Tad

Maze: (Perfect)
ScapeRune (Prison): (Works, but need some testing)
Bot Login: (Perfect)
Exam: (Perfect)
Frog: (Perfect)
Molly: (Perfect)
Quiz: (Perfect)
Pillory: (Perfect)
ScapeRune (Island): (Perfect)
Mime: (Perfect)
Pinball: (Perfect)
Bank Pins: (Perfect)
Beekeeper: (Perfect)
Break Handler: (Perfect)
Captain Arnav: (Perfect)
Certer: (Perfect)
Drill Demon: (Perfect)
First Time Death: (Perfect)
Freaky Forester: (Perfect)
Gravedigger: (Perfect)
Improved Reward Box: (Perfect)
Leave Safe Area (Perfect)
Lost and Found: (Perfect)
Sandwich Lady: (Perfect)
Welcome Screen: (Perfect)

Judging from recent user responses, there are 1-3 that may not have a 100% success rate.

Yea it's actually nothing like that at all.

I doubt their leo works, I've seen so many rsbot accounts ect in pillory, scaperune. Their random solving is about the same (over all), and the fact that they exaggerate it is funny reminds me of ibot 2 years ago.

From: IceFire908
Yea it's actually nothing like that at all.

I doubt their leo works, I've seen so many rsbot accounts ect in pillory, scaperune. Their random solving is about the same (over all), and the fact that they exaggerate it is funny reminds me of ibot 2 years ago.

It states Scaperune isn't finished, and pillory is another one of the 1-3 I was referring to. From experience (I was running a bot 12 hours a day last week), it only got caught in a random once that whole time, in pillory.

Regardless, this doesn't matter. Is my last post correct or incorrect?

If reflection was fixed, I would use it (as I have used in the past). But I'm not going to fix it myself because it requires more than just getting the hooks right now.

This is such an (pointless) ancient discussion…

SCAR/SRL will never be as efficient as a pure object oriented program. We're not going to be able to run one account at 24/7 (assuming that RSBOT seems to be able to…). It's going to stop somewhere because of SCAR faults/SRL faults.

Fix these faults with reflection…? Why don't we just switchover to a program completely coded with Java? Wouldn't that be even better…?

IMO, this is completely a difference in what we value.

E: PLUS, it's not that we completely shun 'change'. It's broken. So it's just negatives over negatives.

If anyone wants to see the porgress on fixing reflecton PM me and i will sho you it


srry if this is not what you guys are looking for but I cant follow this thread

I would still push towards mastering the art of hybrid color reflection, but it is a huge pain in the ass.

From: Tad

Here is what I've concluded…

• SRL wishes to keep color for the challenges it provides
• Programming challenges first; Autoing second
• Although the include is not functioning all that well, there is no desire to change anything because
• Lack of experience with other methods
• Unappealing (lack of) challenges in other methods
• Other methods are being used (sparingly), solely because a few members wish to try something different (IMO, I find this pointless, but I guess it's not up to SRL as to how the include and Scar/Simba are used)

Yes?

Regardless, this doesn't matter. Is my last post correct or incorrect?

Yes.
Yes.
Which include are you refering to…
SRL ? I think it is functioning quite well compared to the active number of devolopers and their work load here and in RL…
Reflection ?…Yes, lack of experience, I think everyone that has actually taken the time to download everything need to fix it..Java, Java development kits, updaters, etc. have come to the conclusion…that a couple hours, weeks or even months are not sufficient enough time to fully comprehend and learn everything needed to fix it…Challenge…there is enough challenge in writing a color script, then learning a new method simply to try and compete with other communities…this is what doesn't make sense to me….
Yes. Other methods are being explored simply out of interest..Since when is "Knowledge Pointless" ?

AGAIN……

SRL is devoted to color finding routines, although the community has become more open minded towards new methods, we have and always will be based on color…if you want to use other methods, that's your choice, just know thre are other comunities that will better to support your choice…

From: WhiteShadow
We're not going to be able to run one account at 24/7 (assuming that RSBOT seems to be able to…). It's going to stop somewhere because of SCAR faults/SRL faults.

and that leads us to another important aspect of SRL…Responsible Autoing…..It does happen, but rarely to legitimate players keep their account logged in for 24/7…I know of plenty of SRL scripts that will run on 1 player extended periods of time, but why jeopardize your account ?

From: RAM
Yes.
Yes.
Which include are you refering to…
SRL ? I think it is functioning quite well compared to the active number of devolopers and their work load here and in RL…
Reflection ?…Yes, lack of experience, I think everyone that has actually taken the time to download everything need to fix it..Java, Java development kits, updaters, etc. have come to the conclusion…that a couple hours, weeks or even months are not sufficient enough time to fully comprehend and learn everything needed to fix it…Challenge…there is enough challenge in writing a color script, then learning a new method simply to try and compete with other communities…this is what doesn't make sense to me….
Yes. Other methods are being explored simply out of interest..Since when is "Knowledge Pointless" ?

AGAIN……

I understand that Devs and everyone else have things to do other than develop SRL. I'm talking about the state of the antirandoms and such, relative to other communities.

By pointless I mean not worth it. If you want to use reflection-like methods, it's not worth doing it at SRL. Now, after reading this thread, I agree/understand that implementing reflection into SRL is not feasible. SRL is made for the joys of programming, not to be the best RS auto.

By pointless I mean not worth it. If you want to use reflection-like methods, it's not worth doing it at SRL. Now, after reading this thread, I agree/understand that implementing reflection into SRL is not feasible. SRL is made for the joys of programming.

But once reflection is fixed people will DEFINITELY fork SRL into an reflection include also. It just wont be OFFICIAL, but I can definitely see all of the reflection lovers converting all of SRL into reflection, making their own SVN, and everyone can choose what they want to use!

From: YoHoJo
But once reflection is fixed people will DEFINITELY fork SRL into an reflection include also. It just wont be OFFICIAL, but I can definitely see all of the reflection lovers converting all of SRL into reflection, making their own SVN, and everyone can choose what they want to use!

SRL Reflection:

• Challenge is less than Color
• Effectiveness is less than Java Bots

Lose-lose, the way I see it.

EDIT: Didn't notice you say that there will be a whole include of reflection: That didn't happen the first time, why would it happen now? All that might have happened since then is several reflection supporters have left. And even if it was to happen, the issue of using Pascal for something Java is made for makes it less effective no matter what.

From: Tad
SRL Reflection:

• Effectiveness is less than Java Bots

How so?

From: IceFire908
How so?

The using pascal as java issue and the lack of suitable leadership for what would essentially be nearly a whole new bot (resulting in a less stable include). Basically most of the reasons that have been thrown against me for the first part of the thread.

From: YoHoJo
But once reflection is fixed people will DEFINITELY fork SRL into an reflection include also. It just wont be OFFICIAL, but I can definitely see all of the reflection lovers converting all of SRL into reflection, making their own SVN, and everyone can choose what they want to use!

I expected Method to do that ages ago honestly..

From: Tad
The using pascal as java issue and the lack of suitable leadership for what would essentially be nearly a whole new bot (resulting in a less stable include). Basically most of the reasons that have been thrown against me for the first part of the thread.

Why don't you and Camaro fix it , then Lead the way ? It was your suggestion after all … :duh:

Regarding random solving, many other people and myself are ''working'' on it. Mime is coming along nicely, plus I got a nice data set for it today, so yeah! Mordaut sounds like a challenge, but I'm sure Iroki can help us with that, like he always does :). Last I heard TrilEz (sp) was trying to work on prison pete.

So every thing's looking good, nonetheless progress has been made.

Challenge is less than color. (Ya so? Some people [like you] don't want the challenge).

Effectiveness is less than Java Bots. How is that? And by using reflection we basically are a 'java bot'.

Well, maybe an entire SRL java include didn't happen before, but maybe that's just because it was too much HARD WORK for you reflection lovers, you can do it if you want, no one is stopping you.

And even if it was to happen, the issue of using Pascal for something Java is made for makes it less effective no matter what.

OK THEN WHAT THE FRACK DO YOU WANT FROM US?! Every flippin thing we say you keep shooting down!

&#9788;Color is slow worse ineffective and too hard it's ancient
&#9788;Java is the best its so much cooler and faster and all randoms are solved and its newschool
&#9788;I want reflection back
&#9788;BUT even if reflection is back, SRL still is worse and less effective than java bots

Ok, maybe SRL can't satisfy all of your needs and wants, no matter what?!
Maybe the SRL philosophy inst the same as yours, and that's ok! Lets just leave it at that!

From: Tad
The using pascal as java issue and the lack of suitable leadership for what would essentially be nearly a whole new bot (resulting in a less stable include). Basically most of the reasons that have been thrown against me for the first part of the thread.

I don't understand.

How come "SRL's Reflection is Effectiveness is less than Java Bots"?

It's much better in the hands of the SRL community even if it's a rigged plugin.

From: RAM
Why don't you and Camaro fix it , then Lead the way ? It was your suggestion after all … :duh:

Well first of all I wouldn't know how (of course, I could take the time to learn it). Second of all you guys have convinced me that it's not worth it.

From: YoHoJo
Challenge is less than color. (Ya so? Some people [like you] don't want the challenge).

Effectiveness is less than Java Bots. How is that? And by using reflection we basically are a 'java bot'.

Posts by devs and admins throughout the thread explain that. I don't know the specifics, but logically, it makes sense that a pascal bot wouldn't be able to manipulate Java as well as a Java bot. And no, by using reflection you are a pascal bot trying to be a Java bot.

Well, maybe an entire SRL java include didn't happen before, but maybe that's just because it was too much HARD WORK for you reflection lovers, you can do it if you want, no one is stopping you.

I'm losing you here… I have since changed my opinion and have concluded SRL reflection isn't worth it.

OK THEN WHAT THE FRACK DO YOU WANT FROM US?! Every flippin thing we say you keep shooting down!

My opinion and questions have changed throughout the course of the thread. At first I figured SRL would benefit (in a botting aspect) from a move to reflection. Then I realized you don't want to benefit in a botting aspect. Then I questioned why bother with reflection at all. I've concluded that it's not worth meddling with reflection in SRL. And no, I haven't shut everything down. My altered opinion is proof enough that I've been listening to what you guys have said.

Ok, maybe SRL can't satisfy all of your needs and wants, no matter what?!
Maybe the SRL philosophy inst the same as yours, and that's ok! Lets just leave it at that!

Yes, you're right, it can't. At this point in time, all I want to know is why people bother with SRL reflection.

One possible answer to that would probably be what IceFire is doing. Creating a script for the fun of it in color, then backing it up with reflection so that autoers can benefit. Nonetheless, probably less than 10% of reflection scripters actually do that. And so, I don't see the point in maintaining reflection if only one out of every 10 reflection scripters actually make use of the one scenario in which it is useful.

Yes, you're right, it can't. At this point in time, all I want to know is why people bother with SRL reflection.

Because 'people' dont know java/pascal is easier, they know pascal better and they don't want to/have the time to learn java.

From: YoHoJo
Because 'people' dont know java/pascal is easier, they know pascal better and they don't want to/have the time to learn java.

I suppose that is the real reason why people would do so. But, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't make sense; you're probably not going to be able to create something amazing with SRL reflection. It would be more worth it to learn Java and do the same for a Java bot. Going from Scar/SRL scripting to something like Java/RSBot is not hard at all. After two weekends of making small scripts and watching some video tutorials, I was able to create a fine AIO Hunter for RSBot. Saving that one week of learning Java and limiting yourself to pseudo-Java reflection scripting doesn't seem worth it.

EDIT: Time is not an issue; you'd be spending time making reflection scripts, which you could instead use to learn Java.

I didn't take the time to read the whole thread, but for the record I'm currently doing my RSBot crash course so I can bot even when SCAR/SRL dies on me :D

From: Cigue
I didn't take the time to read the whole thread, but for the record I'm currently doing my RSBot crash course so I can bot even when SCAR/SRL dies on me :D

Or you could take an SRL crash course and learn to fix it yourself when it breaks, instead of just waiting for someone else to do it….:redface:

From: RAM
Or you could take an SRL crash course and learn to fix it yourself when it breaks, instead of just waiting for someone else to do it….:redface:

Fix SRL/Reflection/SCAR : Tens, maybe hundreds of hours, sometimes impossible if the problem has to do with SCAR.
Fix RSBot : Switch to SRL.

:)

From: IceFire908
I would still push towards mastering the art of hybrid color reflection, but it is a huge pain in the ass.

Perhaps SRL 5 will help you there. It'll be more modular and you can very easily plug in antirandoms made w/ reflection.

From: Wizzup?
Perhaps SRL 5 will help you there. It'll be more modular and you can very easily plug in antirandoms made w/ reflection.

Maybe, but entire reflection hybridization is a lot harder than I ever imagined… "true hybridization" will allow at any one moment for the script to knowingly switch between reflection and color (perhaps even have dynamic hooks updated from an online data base) the odds of the script catching a new game build during the middle of runtime is very low, and if it is successful there are so many things to take into account like… say I'm walking with color and I want to switch to tile walking or viseversa, I might not be in the correct spot. So the initial script mode switching is pretty impossible :( just one of the many difficulties you run into when trying to make an intelligent script that can utlize the full power of both reflection and color.

@Tad, you never answered my question -.-

From: Cigue
Fix SRL/Reflection/SCAR : Tens, maybe hundreds of hours, sometimes impossible if the problem has to do with SCAR.
Fix RSBot : Switch to SRL.

:)

and sometimes it's as simple as picking a new color, or moving the direction a few pixels ;)

From: IceFire908

@Tad, you never answered my question -.-

I did. Refer to:

From: n3ss3s
Will people fucking stop bitching about fixing reflection? If it was easy shit for anyone to be assed to do it, it would have been done, but the problem is you can't do client-hacking shit (although we are discussing copying what RSBot does) by learning a bit there and a bit there u need to learn Step 1 to learn Step 2 etc…

Also,

So are we driving on competing Java bots by using Java in-directly through plugins in PascalScript?

From: Rasta Magician

Finally, n3ss has the best point. We'd be using a pascal interpreter with pluggins todo java stuff VS a java bot. RSBot would own us big time.

~RM

That, in addition to the lack of leadership (someone who can do anything and everything in regards to it) in creating/maintaining Reflection.

EDIT: However, I've realized that community is another reason people might wish to stay at SRL rather than move for a better scripting situation with a worse community. Therefore, it's simply a matter of personal priorities when deciding where to go. This means that I was wrong. I appreciate how this discussion was continued and not closed at reply 50 :). Now I finally believe I understand the whole reflection versus color thing, and anyone who doesn't should take the time to read through this thread.

Scar IS the problem. No offense to Freddy, but it is to unstable. Before I could run my bot for at least 20 hours, and now I cant make it past 5 hours until an exception pops out. I also changed my mind completely about reflection..

You could go bring back reflection. It was fun when it was working. But I would use it as a failsafe over color.

And in my opinion reflection/Java bots really messed up the game. Its just abuse, abuse, abuse since its so easy.

What Srl needed was something different then Scar… And that is Simba. I hope it becomes very successful.

I read the first and last page, so if I missed something important, forgive me.

Basically, in the first page lots of people were bitching about how reflection is the bestest. I remember someone said that a lot of members left because they didn't see a point in scripting anymore, I believe the reasoning was because reflection went down and nobody wanted to script colour anymore. From a first hand perspective from someone who left after reflection went down, I would know what went on in my mind during that time. SRL went through a lot of shit, and all of the nublets were bitching about the scripts not working anymore. Lots of colour was down at the time. There really wasn't a way to script at all. My working script could run for 24 hours straight, or something, back when it was a reflection script backed with colour, and then reflection went down, so I had to make it 100% colour. It would then run 5 hours or so maximum. Probably some of my errors, some of SRL's errors. Then the engine updated, and shit hit the fan.

My script ended up not working because of all of the colours. I couldn't be bothered to fix all of my autocolouring, walking, banking, everything else, which would be hours upon hours of work, just to see it fail 10 minutes in because of a random, of which SRL stopped being able to solve. Once I had no reason to stay other than the community, I started realizing that the community was full of shit that I didn't want to be a part of. There was lots of drama going on, and tons of the devs bitched eachother out. Nobody in SSRL was happy with who was getting in, and who wasn't. All of the elite groups raged all the time, from what people told me. Then I got bitched out by staffers for expressing myself, and ended up saying bye bye to the community, for about 2 or 3 months.

So, long story short, I don't think that many people left just because of that, but people did leave, and scripts didn't work. Not because of reflection going down..

On this page (5), I started realizing that most people decided that reflection isn't really worth having, which makes me assume some shit went down when some of the staffers stepped up and acted mature about it. So I don't really understand, but apparently people think that a SCAR developed by a crack team (Wizzup? by the looks of it) and open sourced will be wayyyy better than the SCAR that we have. Yes, everyone knows SCAR right now is pretty shit, and everyone is looking forward to Simba, but everyone agreed that SCAR 2.15 was shit too, then Freddy came out with SCAR 3, and we all know where that got us. I'm just saying that I'm not going to believe how much better it is until it really happens.

Someone can prove me wrong. I know that I'm unaware of anything since I haven't really done anything in 3 months. This is really my only worthwhile post since then, and I already broke the rules a fuck lot of times from swearing and being rude. People can flame me all they want for it, and staffs can edit the swears out if they want, but I do want to stay here this time. I like being involved in drama like this.

Just update reflection like we use to last year. It was quick and easy. Just get one of the reflection devs to do that - RSbot did it, why can't we?

From: cycrosism
Just update reflection like we use to last year. It was quick and easy. Just get one of the reflection devs to do that - RSbot did it, why can't we?

RSBot didn't do it, Qauters did. One person. You don't even know what you are talking about.

There is a lot of ignorance in this thread. RSBot does not use reflection. They use the Byte Code Engineering Library, which is a java tool that allows them to manipulate the RS Client. That being said, stop comparing us to RSBot.

I just hold on hope that the addition of mainstream OpenGL will make SRL scripting easier.

From: 3Garrett3
I read the first and last page, so if I missed something important, forgive me.

Basically, in the first page lots of people were bitching about how reflection is the bestest. I remember someone said that a lot of members left because they didn't see a point in scripting anymore, I believe the reasoning was because reflection went down and nobody wanted to script colour anymore. From a first hand perspective from someone who left after reflection went down, I would know what went on in my mind during that time. SRL went through a lot of shit, and all of the nublets were bitching about the scripts not working anymore. Lots of colour was down at the time. There really wasn't a way to script at all. My working script could run for 24 hours straight, or something, back when it was a reflection script backed with colour, and then reflection went down, so I had to make it 100% colour. It would then run 5 hours or so maximum. Probably some of my errors, some of SRL's errors. Then the engine updated, and shit hit the fan.

My script ended up not working because of all of the colours. I couldn't be bothered to fix all of my autocolouring, walking, banking, everything else, which would be hours upon hours of work, just to see it fail 10 minutes in because of a random, of which SRL stopped being able to solve. Once I had no reason to stay other than the community, I started realizing that the community was full of shit that I didn't want to be a part of. There was lots of drama going on, and tons of the devs bitched eachother out. Nobody in SSRL was happy with who was getting in, and who wasn't. All of the elite groups raged all the time, from what people told me. Then I got bitched out by staffers for expressing myself, and ended up saying bye bye to the community, for about 2 or 3 months.

So, long story short, I don't think that many people left just because of that, but people did leave, and scripts didn't work. Not because of reflection going down..

On this page (5), I started realizing that most people decided that reflection isn't really worth having, which makes me assume some shit went down when some of the staffers stepped up and acted mature about it. So I don't really understand, but apparently people think that a SCAR developed by a crack team (Wizzup? by the looks of it) and open sourced will be wayyyy better than the SCAR that we have. Yes, everyone knows SCAR right now is pretty shit, and everyone is looking forward to Simba, but everyone agreed that SCAR 2.15 was shit too, then Freddy came out with SCAR 3, and we all know where that got us. I'm just saying that I'm not going to believe how much better it is until it really happens.

Someone can prove me wrong. I know that I'm unaware of anything since I haven't really done anything in 3 months. This is really my only worthwhile post since then, and I already broke the rules a fuck lot of times from swearing and being rude. People can flame me all they want for it, and staffs can edit the swears out if they want, but I do want to stay here this time. I like being involved in drama like this.

Win:D

not that much has been keeping it down for so long. it's not like runescape has made it impossible to use reflection. it's been down for so long because there is no one with enough java knowledge that's willing to update the hooks. all that stops us from using reflection is a person with the knowledge/time/motivation to do it. if it ever gets working again then it is surely the dominant method

From: mormonman
RSBot didn't do it, Qauters did. One person. You don't even know what you are talking about.

There is a lot of ignorance in this thread. RSBot does not use reflection. They use the Byte Code Engineering Library, which is a java tool that allows them to manipulate the RS Client. That being said, stop comparing us to RSBot.

Yes, but that still needs hooks from the RS client, which is exactly what reflection needs

From: cycrosism
Yes, but that still needs hooks from the RS client, which is exactly what reflection needs

Exactly and without his hooks in the 1st place, there wouldnt be any reflection, until method came.

From: kingarabian
method came.

On a more serious note…..
Seems like most of the main questions and concerns have been answered, everyone new READ THROUGH THE ENTIRE THREAD before saying things and bringing up arguments that have already been taken care of!

I'm pretty happy this thread exists, lots of great points from both sides of the spectrum and everything in between. A great thread (if summarized and organized) for all new comers to read and learn from to know what everyone is all about!

From: gn8771
not that much has been keeping it down for so long. it's not like runescape has made it impossible to use reflection. it's been down for so long because there is no one with enough java knowledge that's willing to update the hooks. all that stops us from using reflection is a person with the knowledge/time/motivation to do it. if it ever gets working again then it is surely the dominant method

Updating hooks is pretty easy. It's the function that has to be fixed. Jagex has removed some fields so now someone has to find new ways to do things.

J_Pizzle and I are attempting to fix reflection atm. The thing that we are stuck on is fixing TileToMS and TileToMM. Once those functions have been fixed, it should be a breeze to fix everything else.

Why dont we just update the hooks for reflection then? Or get them from quarterz?

From: cycrosism
Why dont we just update the hooks for reflection then? Or get them from quarterz?

Because that is not what we need. We need some of the mathematical calculations we haven't yet been able to find.

~RM

I do not understand one thing, you say that you don't have the time, but still, you prefer to script in an outdated manner which require much more time … why?

From: IceFire908


SCAR could compete with rsbot in terms of reflection, just because it's not a java bot like some of you say it is and will never compete in the java world, this isn't true. The plugin folder makes it possible (especially in the future with scar 3.5 luna and 4.0+ where compiling time run time will be near pure delphi) it's more about how reflection is used. I mean when you give reflection to an rsbot script kiddie the script isn't going to be nearly as good as if you gave it to anyone who is experienced in color botting, even if their base is entirely java and ours is kinda a rigged up plugin.

If that was partially referring to my post, what I meant is that methaforically ice hockey players don't forcibly have to try and play football…

Also whoever posted about not supporting OpenGL, I wouldn't be surprised if OpenGL became more supported over here than reflection did, OpenGL can be something SRL came up with first (thanks to Silentwolf naturally)…

From: 3Garrett3
On this page (5), I started realizing that most people decided that reflection isn't really worth having, which makes me assume some shit went down when some of the staffers stepped up and acted mature about it. So I don't really understand, but apparently people think that a SCAR developed by a crack team (Wizzup? by the looks of it) and open sourced will be wayyyy better than the SCAR that we have. Yes, everyone knows SCAR right now is pretty shit, and everyone is looking forward to Simba, but everyone agreed that SCAR 2.15 was shit too, then Freddy came out with SCAR 3, and we all know where that got us. I'm just saying that I'm not going to believe how much better it is until it really happens.

• Crack team? I don't call one person a team.
• SCAR 2.03 wasn't shit, it was pretty good.

You don't have to believe shit. However, I would prefer it if you would at least dig a bit into the subjects you're relentlessly flaming.
There are already over 20 Simba testers, and SRL seems to work quite well with it, even though it lacks some functionality. Simba's debugging system has also helped us fix some bugs in SRL already.

From: Cartmann
I do not understand one thing, you say that you don't have the time, but still, you prefer to script in an outdated manner which require much more time … why?

It doesn't cost much more time. Plus, I'm doing this for fun, I don't cheat just so that I can hump runescape pixels.

From: Wizzup?

• Crack team? I don't call one person a team.
• SCAR 2.03 wasn't shit, it was pretty good.

You don't have to believe shit. However, I would prefer it if you would at least dig a bit into the subjects you're relentlessly flaming.
There are already over 20 Simba testers, and SRL seems to work quite well with it, even though it lacks some functionality. Simba's debugging system has also helped us fix some bugs in SRL already.

Maybe you're right, maybe you're touchy about the subject or some shit. Knowing you, you're probably right. I personally know nothing about Simba, all I know is that it's open source SCAR, and that you are making it rather than Freddy.

Moreover, I wasn't relentlessly flaming. This is an opinionated thread, and I am entitled to write an overly opinionated post if I want. It doesn't make me more right or less right or more wrong, or however you'd look at it, but as I've said, I'm aware that I know nothing about the inner workings of SRL, and since I was away for 3 months, I only know what I think, and nothing else. I'm not going to sift through 3 months of posts to find all of the information and shit about Simba, as I really don't care about it. I just shared my opinion to clear anything up for people who were wondering about anything that I mentioned.

From: 3Garrett3
all I know is that it's open source SCAR, and that you are making it rather than Freddy.

There is several people working on Simba, not only Wizzup

From: Rasta Magician
Because that is not what we need. We need some of the mathematical calculations we haven't yet been able to find.

~RM

I found the formulas its jsut amatter of figureing out the instances of the classes now

From: J_Pizzle
I found the formulas its jsut amatter of figureing out the instances of the classes now

If you are talking about the "formulas" in rsbot then you didn't find them :duh:

From: mormonman
If you are talking about the "formulas" in rsbot then you didn't find them :duh:

he said that we didnt ahve the formulas which we do I may have used a bad choice of words there but none the less we still ahve the formulas

From: J_Pizzle
he said that we didnt ahve the formulas which we do I may have used a bad choice of words there but none the less we still ahve the formulas

As to this thread: Same shit, different pile
As to you: GJ :)

~RM

I agree

From: Wizzup?
It doesn't cost much more time. Plus, I'm doing this for fun, I don't cheat just so that I can hump runescape pixels.

I script in SCAR with SRL to make Runescape bots for solely benefits, and as far as I'm concerned, this is a community based on botting with the SCAR client in Runescape, no?
Then why would you on purpose use an outdated method to complicate it?

As to Yohojo:
Well, scripting with JAVA might be an ease to create a auto miner, IMO that's a good thing, seeing as you are able to raise your bars from a 3 clicking script.

From: Cartmann
I script in SCAR with SRL to make Runescape bots for solely benefits, and as far as I'm concerned, this is a community based on botting with the SCAR client in Runescape, no?
Then why would you on purpose use an outdated method to complicate it?

I already noted that you did it solely for benefits, hence my remark about it. Do you even realize that SCAR was never made for reflection?

From: Wizzup?
I already noted that you did it solely for benefits, hence my remark about it. Do you even realize that SCAR was never made for reflection?

I presume everybody bots for solely benefits? I haven't seen any users giving away free accounts or rsgp yet, and I've been here for some time now.

Please don't get me wrong because of my colour, I do understand that SCAR wasn't made for reflection but the procedure language Pascal, but that doesn't mean you don't have to use it, seeing as it seems that reflection performs task "better"(more precise and faster) than colour, aye?

From: Cartmann
I presume everybody bots for solely benefits? I haven't seen any users giving away free accounts or rsgp yet, and I've been here for some time now.

If I was here for benefits, I would ask you to pay for SRL.
I've botted a lot, and it was never really for the profit. JageX kinda killed that anyway…

From: Cartmann

Please don't get me wrong because of my colour, I do understand that SCAR wasn't made for reflection but the procedure language Pascal, but that doesn't mean you don't have to use it, seeing as it seems that reflection performs task "better"(more precise and faster) than colour, aye?

Does it perform better? I haven't seen any working scripts in a long time.

From: Wizzup?

Does it perform better? I haven't seen any working scripts in a long time.

When it works, it does have somewhat better possibilities…
As some scripts can't be made with color, we both know that.

The real problem is this is just a collection of individuals, not an organization. The true solution is to make this into a "programming army" and assign each member a task he has to complete if he wants to remain part of the organization.

And if that happens, each worker bee will contribute his own little bit of pollen, not enough to stand on his own, but once the queen assembles the component parts, then you have a kick ass script.

Here's what I would do if I was boss:
1. Find out who is really contributing to the site. Eliminate those who don't contribute.
2. Assign ranks as trainee, programmer, advanced programmer, and manger.
3. Pick a project, for instance a farming script.
4. Assign a collection of people to make the script.
5. A team of three or four would be responsible for walking/teleporting between farming sites.
6. Another team would be responsible for the raking/prepping/fertilizing.
7. Another team would be responsible for a routine which fills the compost bin.
8. Another team would be responsible for checking/maintaining/plant cure/amulet of nature.
9. Another team would be responsible for harvesting and banking.
10. You would need to replicate the process between different types of farming patches.

So if each team had three members, and each team has a week to come up with their one function or module, then in a week the manager would have all the raw components finished. All he would have to do is assemble them into the main loop. Repeat every week and soon you would have dozens of scripts.

This hypothetical farming script would take five teams of three members, or 15 members, plus one or two managers. Managers would keep the teams on task and focused on the end result without getting sidetracked.

So in a week 17 people could assemble a kick ass farming script. That is the way REAL BUSINESSES WORK! If we need to defeat Jagex, which has 5 million dollars income every month and a staff of 400, we need to quit acting like "L33T hakerzzzz" 12 year olds and get organized.

Organization is the key. Right now there are two or three people who are carrying 75% of the weight, and that's not right. Of course, part of this may be paranoia on their part but I'm not qualified to comment on that. If they read this they will know who they are. Maybe those folks need to open the blinds a bit and let other people see what they are doing or they will burn out and the whole SCAR/SRL will collapse like a house of cards. Just my humble opinion.

JIM

[QUOTE=Camaro';682843]So now, instead of sitting in the corner with 'advanced' color, which isn't getting the job done, we need to move on.
Hmm… I have been running my own scar script that makes me 1m/hr with no problems :) But I have to agree that reflection is way easier for walking.


[QUOTE=Camaro';682843]
Has anyone noticed that RSBot solves EVERY random with ease?
[/QUOTE]Rsbot has failed many randoms for me. Like last time my account had been sitting 5 hours in random event logged on. Pretty much bannable right?

From: jimthesoundman
The real problem is this is just a collection of individuals, not an organization. The true solution is to make this into a "programming army" and assign each member a task he has to complete if he wants to remain part of the organization.

It's a brilliant plan which would very likely work if developers were paid. As they're not, you can only expect them to do as much as they feel like doing.

~RM

From: Rasta Magician
It's a brilliant plan which would very likely work if developers were paid. As they're not, you can only expect them to do as much as they feel like doing.

~RM

Indeed, that's a great idea, but personally as soon as I am requested to be paid(or anyone else for developing scripts) I would leave. Money corrupts communities and that's why I love being here. This is a true community.

From: jimthesoundman
The real problem is this is just a collection of individuals, not an organization. The true solution is to make this into a "programming army" and assign each member a task he has to complete if he wants to remain part of the organization.

And if that happens, each worker bee will contribute his own little bit of pollen, not enough to stand on his own, but once the queen assembles the component parts, then you have a kick ass script.

Here's what I would do if I was boss:
1. Find out who is really contributing to the site. Eliminate those who don't contribute.
2. Assign ranks as trainee, programmer, advanced programmer, and manger.
3. Pick a project, for instance a farming script.
4. Assign a collection of people to make the script.
5. A team of three or four would be responsible for walking/teleporting between farming sites.
6. Another team would be responsible for the raking/prepping/fertilizing.
7. Another team would be responsible for a routine which fills the compost bin.
8. Another team would be responsible for checking/maintaining/plant cure/amulet of nature.
9. Another team would be responsible for harvesting and banking.
10. You would need to replicate the process between different types of farming patches.

So if each team had three members, and each team has a week to come up with their one function or module, then in a week the manager would have all the raw components finished. All he would have to do is assemble them into the main loop. Repeat every week and soon you would have dozens of scripts.

This hypothetical farming script would take five teams of three members, or 15 members, plus one or two managers. Managers would keep the teams on task and focused on the end result without getting sidetracked.

So in a week 17 people could assemble a kick ass farming script. That is the way REAL BUSINESSES WORK! If we need to defeat Jagex, which has 5 million dollars income every month and a staff of 400, we need to quit acting like "L33T hakerzzzz" 12 year olds and get organized.

Organization is the key. Right now there are two or three people who are carrying 75% of the weight, and that's not right. Of course, part of this may be paranoia on their part but I'm not qualified to comment on that. If they read this they will know who they are. Maybe those folks need to open the blinds a bit and let other people see what they are doing or they will burn out and the whole SCAR/SRL will collapse like a house of cards. Just my humble opinion.

JIM

You have some good points. We plan to reorganize SRL and get things to roll again soon. Simba is just the first step.

Nvm. it's pointless to even bother.

From: Wizzup?
You have some good points. We plan to reorganize SRL and get things to roll again soon. Simba is just the first step.

I may be the only one, but if the idea becomes "Do this work in this timeframe, or get out", I will be choosing the getting out.

SRL is a community, not a business. I'm personally not here to "Beat jagex" or whatever. But as I've said, I may be the only one. I wouldn't mind hearing the opinions of others on the subject, whether they are for or against either doing work or getting kicked out.

From: 3Garrett3
I may be the only one, but if the idea becomes "Do this work in this timeframe, or get out", I will be choosing the getting out.

SRL is a community, not a business. I'm personally not here to "Beat jagex" or whatever. But as I've said, I may be the only one. I wouldn't mind hearing the opinions of others on the subject, whether they are for or against either doing work or getting kicked out.

+1
I like the way things are right now within the community. There are things like POMS if you want to do stuff like that in a group, but you can still make your own script, and if you don't, no one yells at you. I didn't release a script until about a week ago since I got members, and that was great. I didn't have the time for it, and once i got the time, I ended up making, not one, but two scripts. If I was kicked out for not releasing/helping, I would not want to come back if I was allowed. If it was like that when i came, I would have just thought 'to hell with it' and closed that tab.

From: jimthesoundman
<snip>

I do not like that at all. What about the members of the community that dont have runescape memebers? What about the people that have contributed in the past, but are no longer active. Are you going to cut them out as well?

SRL is about learning. Not about producing an awesome runescape script. Sure, a script can be thrown in there, but we are a group of thousands of people from around the world, that come together to learn and help one another.
We are not a machine.
We do not produce, produce and produce, but work together (just less organized than your ideal method).

From: 3Garrett3
I may be the only one, but if the idea becomes "Do this work in this timeframe, or get out", I will be choosing the getting out.

SRL is a community, not a business. I'm personally not here to "Beat jagex" or whatever. But as I've said, I may be the only one. I wouldn't mind hearing the opinions of others on the subject, whether they are for or against either doing work or getting kicked out.

Again, if you had been following recent development you had seen that Simba is close to reality; which means we can then make the next step. :)

From: jimthesoundman
The real problem is this is just a collection of individuals, not an organization. The true solution is to make this into a "programming army" and assign each member a task he has to complete if he wants to remain part of the organization.

And if that happens, each worker bee will contribute his own little bit of pollen, not enough to stand on his own, but once the queen assembles the component parts, then you have a kick ass script.

Here's what I would do if I was boss:
1. Find out who is really contributing to the site. Eliminate those who don't contribute.
2. Assign ranks as trainee, programmer, advanced programmer, and manger.
3. Pick a project, for instance a farming script.
4. Assign a collection of people to make the script.
5. A team of three or four would be responsible for walking/teleporting between farming sites.
6. Another team would be responsible for the raking/prepping/fertilizing.
7. Another team would be responsible for a routine which fills the compost bin.
8. Another team would be responsible for checking/maintaining/plant cure/amulet of nature.
9. Another team would be responsible for harvesting and banking.
10. You would need to replicate the process between different types of farming patches.

So if each team had three members, and each team has a week to come up with their one function or module, then in a week the manager would have all the raw components finished. All he would have to do is assemble them into the main loop. Repeat every week and soon you would have dozens of scripts.

This hypothetical farming script would take five teams of three members, or 15 members, plus one or two managers. Managers would keep the teams on task and focused on the end result without getting sidetracked.

So in a week 17 people could assemble a kick ass farming script. That is the way REAL BUSINESSES WORK! If we need to defeat Jagex, which has 5 million dollars income every month and a staff of 400, we need to quit acting like "L33T hakerzzzz" 12 year olds and get organized.

Organization is the key. Right now there are two or three people who are carrying 75% of the weight, and that's not right. Of course, part of this may be paranoia on their part but I'm not qualified to comment on that. If they read this they will know who they are. Maybe those folks need to open the blinds a bit and let other people see what they are doing or they will burn out and the whole SCAR/SRL will collapse like a house of cards. Just my humble opinion.

JIM

Seems very communist/dictatorial-like, if you ask me. :p

I, personally, don't have much against actual communism (the communism that Marx and whoever the co-author was envisioned), but I'm sure most people wouldn't prefer it. And I see quite a few major flaws.

1. This is the Internet. We've no way of making sure people are doing their work; they can simply just stop, which may lead to more people abruptly stopping their work, resulting in a domino effect.
2. You cannot force people to go on their computers and script. This is not a job, business, or anything similar. This, again, is the Internet. People may come and go as they please.
3. Persons contributing to a single script (and the managers) have other, possibly paying, jobs and responsibilities that will be more important to him than cheating in a game for teenagers.
4. Not every part of the script would go together. For example, walking/teleporting may interfere with banking, as one has to be called for the other to work, which could throw off the already made procedures/functions, thus making that teams work useless and a waste of time.

I could think of some more, but I think you get the point. ;)

Nothing wrong with the idea, but I fear that you've forgotten to take human nature into the equation.

From: Wizzup?
Again, if you had been following recent development you had seen that Simba is close to reality; which means we can then make the next step. :)

What does that have to do with anything he said? He was talking about SRL turning into what was posted by jim, nothing to do with SIMBA.
Just sayin'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lion_King#Plot

I think you will find that SCAR IS the problem.

I am too lazy to quote people but:

Why should color be eliminated, even a little bit??

Color has lasted this community a long time. Eliminating color and focusing only on reflection would go against everything SRL stands for. For quite some time, SRL + Scar has been the best bot, despite RsBot's existence. So when you argue with each other, don't bring up RsBot, we're not here to compete with them. But, we all know SCAR has been a big epic failure, recently. That's why I refrain from scripting in that program. SCAR is a problem. But I wouldn't say the biggest problem. SRL has been lacking a LOT lately. The anti randoms especially.

Also, I would like to point out, we have very few autoers compared to what we used to have. But the scripts are still coming, I simply think we need more advertising of the SRL community. I don't know how other bots get so much attention, but I know we don't.

Reflection is good, but remember people, Reflection is not part of SRL.

Anyways, that's my point of view on the situation. Feel free to criticize :)

Edit: Another reason why I don't post scripts is because it sucks when nobody gives progress reports. I remember when Tad released his 3p1c AIO fisher and their were BARELY anybody using the script. That was a perfectly good script going to waste :(

{offtopic}
-from griff's link : "Scar pretends to leave but turns to attack Simba, resulting in a final duel. Simba triumphs over his uncle by flipping him over a low cliff. Scar survives the fall but finds himself surrounded by the now-resentful hyenas, who attack and devour him."

Looks like SCAR is the coward aka the problem

hmm i wonder who the hyenas are *cough* {/offtopic}

From: Smarter Child

Also, I would like to point out, we have very few autoers compared to what we used to have. But the scripts are still coming, I simply think we need more advertising of the SRL community. I don't know how other bots get so much attention, but I know we don't.

<snip>

Edit: Another reason why I don't post scripts is because it sucks when nobody gives progress reports. I remember when Tad released his 3p1c AIO fisher and their were BARELY anybody using the script. That was a perfectly good script going to waste :(

The reason SRL doesn't have such a large user base is because, as brought up all throughout this thread, SRL does not focus on botting and raping Runescape. Most other botting communities do. Because SRL is not focused on such things, the quantity and variety of scripts and the effectiveness of SRL (or SCAR, as some of you might argue) itself is not up to par with other bots, and so not many people are drawn to here unless they're the type that wishes to learn to program and/or have an enjoyable (<- depends on the person) intellectual activity to participate in, rather than just rape RS or receive profit.

From: Smarter Child
lacking a LOT lately. The anti randoms especially.

I completely disagree, as I find this to be 100% accurate:

From: IceFire908

I really disagree with the randoms solving being impossible, just look through Iroki plugin.dpr source file… anything can be done in color with enough skill. And as far as I've seen

Lamp,Box ect.. - A high success rate
Abyss - High success rate
Evilbob - Since naum made his solver, a high success rate
Beekeeper - High success rate
Frog - A high success rate
Demon - A good success rate
Forester - A good success rate, probably a high one now with TriLez tweaking last night
Molly - A good success rate
Sandwich lady- A good success rate
Leo - A good success rate
Pillory - A good success rate, detecting if in the random still might need tweaking itself
Pinball - A good success rate
Quiz - A good success rate
Maze - Alright, but needs tweaking from game update. Naum is on it
Mime - Alright, but needs tweaking from game update. Naum is on it
Mordaut - Needs tweaking from game update
CapnArrav - Possible but needs tweaking from game update
Certer - Works a good success rate, but it doesn't know when to exit, a small fix.
Prison pete - You have 14 minutes before it blocks you out, I seriously doubt any bot out there has a reliable solver for this ATM.

Tell me, what does rsbot have?

Prove me wrong.

From: Tad
SRL does not focus on botting Runescape.

Yes it does

From: cycrosism
Yes it does

That's taken out of context. What I meant by my post was that SRL values programming challenges more than raping RS.

@IceFire

I guess it's opinion, but IMO, having half of the randoms working about half the time or less (I'm assuming that that would apply to the faded green and below, correct me if I'm wrong), wouldn't be too efficient.

A fair comparison to make would be that the people here would rather cut down a tree by hitting it repeatedly with a log instead of using a chain saw. It requires more skill and use of "advanced techniques" to get the exact same job done with the log, so they find it more fun.

Personally, I'd rather just chainsaw it, but I'm not going to force my opinion upon others. Let people decide whether they want to get the job done well, or feel good about how they attempted to get the job done.

From: Tad
That's taken out of context. What I meant by my post was that SRL values programming challenges more than raping RS.

@IceFire

I guess it's opinion, but IMO, having half of the randoms working about half the time or less (I'm assuming that that would apply to the faded green and below, correct me if I'm wrong), wouldn't be too efficient.

I'd say more like

90% 75% 50% 25% 0%

I never have understood all the angst over reflection. If you like it, great. If you don't, great. It seems to me that the biggest problem is that those who are deeply in love with reflection are basically just unhappy that so many others choose to code in color.

I code exclusively in color, and always have. I've never learned reflection, and I still have never seen a SCAR script with reflection that's better than an equivalent color script.

I've been waiting a long time for someone to prove me wrong and show that SCAR reflection is really that much better.

I also don't buy the argument that SRL embracing color is the problem. If solving randoms with reflection was so easy, people would naturally be writing them into their own reflection scripts. We would have working reflection random solvers out there in the community. Remember that Wizzup wrote his own color Abyss solver for his own ess script back in the day, before having it added to SRL. But I haven't seen those appearing in reflection scripts either.

So it all comes back to the beginning, with reflection fanboys basically just complaining that other people won't write leech-friendly reflection scripts for them to use.

The fact that reflection is broken, and has been for months, while my old color script has been running solid with only minor tweaks for almost 4 years now says it all, as far as I'm concerned.

Can't we all just get along?

From: tarajunky
I never have understood all the angst over reflection. If you like it, great. If you don't, great. It seems to me that the biggest problem is that those who are deeply in love with reflection are basically just unhappy that so many others choose to code in color.

I code exclusively in color, and always have. I've never learned reflection, and I still have never seen a SCAR script with reflection that's better than an equivalent color script.

I've been waiting a long time for someone to prove me wrong and show that SCAR reflection is really that much better.

I also don't buy the argument that SRL embracing color is the problem. If solving randoms with reflection was so easy, people would naturally be writing them into their own reflection scripts. We would have working reflection random solvers out there in the community. Remember that Wizzup wrote his own color Abyss solver for his own ess script back in the day, before having it added to SRL. But I haven't seen those appearing in reflection scripts either.

So it all comes back to the beginning, with reflection fanboys basically just complaining that other people won't write leech-friendly reflection scripts for them to use.

The fact that reflection is broken, and has been for months, while my old color script has been running solid with only minor tweaks for almost 4 years now says it all, as far as I'm concerned.

Although this thread is past even contemplating the idea of using something other than color, I beg to differ with your statement.

• There are no color scripts to even compare to some reflection scripts that have been made: AIO Fisher, multiple AIO Miners, AIO Fighter (Narcle's, he himself stated the reflection one was much better than his color one), etc. The sheer magnitude of what can be made with reflection often thwarts color
• As for the randoms, save for a relatively small amount of Devs who created one or two reflection scripts, nobody can even remotely relate to Wizzup's scripting capabilities, so naturally he can probably accomplish more with less (if not accounting for time). Otherwise, if I recall correctly, there was a build up of reflection anti randoms built to the point where some people were preferring them to the point of using them over Color Antirandoms. Note that these were made by simply good scripters, but not SRL elite.
• Reflection is broken not because it cannot be fixed, but because, as was decided in this thread, SRL does not wish to focus on it, and there is nobody with the knowledge/drive/etc. to single-handedly bring it back
• In addition, SRL's reflection was incomplete and buggy due to lack of consistent maintenance and personnel to keep it running, keeping limitations on it even when it was stable

Again, I'm not advocating SRL to add reflection anymore, just stating my opinion on the inapplicable topic at hand.

From: YoHoJo
Agreed, SCAR is not really the problem, we just need to be patient, nothing's 100% functional all the time, and Freddy is a busy man. This isn't some SCAR Vs Simba stuff, its just an alternative option, and open source like many people want. PEOPLE create the rivalry between the two. No problem here just two programs, friendly 'competition'

But its not a friendly competition and its not an alternative option. Well it may be at the moment i guess if someone was willing to brave the untested and make a real script with Simba, but in the future it wont be just an alternative so there wont be competition unless someone does something.

As for reflection, Dan agrees with tarajunky/others. Its not really as if reflection was shunned, more like certain people didnt want to use it and didnt. Then it never got updated and done. Why bother glorifying something and complaining it doesnt work/why its not supported if you aren't the one thats going to be making it work.

I've never had an urge to have my army fish at every possible location around Runescape during a script run, but maybe that's just me. But I have used some great fishing scripts that did one thing well. I've never had the urge to go find a random monster and camp it just because I can. But I have killed millions of chickens and collected tens of millions of feathers. I've also never had the desire to mine every possible rock at every possible location. But I have trained an army of ~20 characters to 85+ Mining by harvesting and banking iron.

It may be more convenient (i.e. leech friendly) to have a single script that can do a lot of different things, but my preference is to have a script that does one thing extremely well. LAME could only claim free runes and cast them. It couldn't run all over the map, but it didn't need to. Zephyr's Yew cutter was full color, and it was able to bank, navigate between 4 different yew trees, predict when they would repop, etc, it was essentially flawless. It couldn't go chop Yews elsewhere, but there was no reason whatsoever for it to do so.

Naturally, there are certain areas that a reflection script would shine, such as a Tut Island runner, or a quest runner. But I never really saw anyone bother to create those things.

My chickenkiller can only kill chickens at the Lumbridge pen. Maybe someone would like to go kill them south of Falador or in the Hero's Guild. But at that point it becomes a matter of someone else being upset that my script is not catered to them, as I said before. If people are upset that I chose to write a script using color that can't kill chickens where they want it to, that's their problem. Most people are happy to see and learn from and perhaps even run a script that is posted by someone. The code's all there for anyone to tweak and cater as they see fit, but it's easier to complain about what others do or don't do than to create something.

Just my opinion…

From: tarajunky
I've never had an urge to have my army fish at every possible location around Runescape during a script run, but maybe that's just me. But I have used some great fishing scripts that did one thing well. I've never had the urge to go find a random monster and camp it just because I can. But I have killed millions of chickens and collected tens of millions of feathers. I've also never had the desire to mine every possible rock at every possible location. But I have trained an army of ~20 characters to 85+ Mining by harvesting and banking iron.

It may be more convenient (i.e. leech friendly) to have a single script that can do a lot of different things, but my preference is to have a script that does one thing extremely well. LAME could only claim free runes and cast them. It couldn't run all over the map, but it didn't need to. Zephyr's Yew cutter was full color, and it was able to bank, navigate between 4 different yew trees, predict when they would repop, etc, it was essentially flawless. It couldn't go chop Yews elsewhere, but there was no reason whatsoever for it to do so.

Naturally, there are certain areas that a reflection script would shine, such as a Tut Island runner, or a quest runner. But I never really saw anyone bother to create those things.

My chickenkiller can only kill chickens at the Lumbridge pen. Maybe someone would like to go kill them south of Falador or in the Hero's Guild. But at that point it becomes a matter of someone else being upset that my script is not catered to them, as I said before. If people are upset that I chose to write a script using color that can't kill chickens where they want it to, that's their problem. Most people are happy to see and learn from and perhaps even run a script that is posted by someone. The code's all there for anyone to tweak and cater as they see fit, but it's easier to complain about what others do or don't do than to create something.

Just my opinion…

As you say, it's a difference of opinion. My opinion is, different people have different reasons for wanting to perform tasks at different places because of their different priorities (some examples: crowded areas and vice versa, exp vs gp, difference in levels resulting in different places being more effective) , so I would choose to accommodate all of them. And, I personally choose to help leechers in any reasonable way. As for examples like Narcle's fighters, they were both essentially AIO. Yet, the reflection one was more effective than the color one. I believe that the main difference when comparing color and reflection is the fact that generally less experienced coders are likely to use reflection and the master coders are likely to use color, resulting in an unfair comparison in the end.

EDIT: @IceFire - So my post before yours used accurate assumptions :)

From: Tad


EDIT: @IceFire - So my post before yours used accurate assumptions :)

Maybe, but I doubt their Leo, Evil Bob, Beekeeper, or Abyss, can compare to ours.

From: IceFire908
Maybe, but I doubt their Leo, Evil Bob, Beekeeper, or Abyss, can compare to ours.

I wasn't comparing to RSBot. I was just saying what Smarter Child said wasn't unjustified seeing as antirandoms will probably fail about 50% of the time.

I'll make you guys a deal. I'll help set up a specialized reflection integrated fork after SIMBA and SRL5 are complete and reflection is fixed, if you guys stop making these threads that always end up the same.

From: IceFire908
Reflection hasn't been shunned by anyone since it was first introduced by a person named solarwind, it was widely embraced after SMART supported it.

GTFO I wrote the reflection part (and vast majority of the rest) of KYAB and the updater. In fact, I was the first person to use reflection proper and not just grabbing fields with bytecode injection.

From: BenLand100
GTFO I wrote the reflection part (and vast majority of the rest) of KYAB and the updater. In fact, I was the first person to use reflection proper and not just grabbing fields with bytecode injection.

True, solar was a bad political move nonetheless.

From: IceFire908
True, solar was a bad political move nonetheless.

Well maybe "good political moves" should do some thinking and ask the right questions. Solarwind did, after all, basically say "Hey, I'm writing a bot. Have you ever thought of interfacing java with scar" and I responded "Yes, what do you know about the client" and he responded "Well, I'm learning java" and I lol'd for a while, gave him some pointers, got interested, and wrote the damn thing. So yea, THIS WHOLE THING IS MY FAULT *tosses the golden apple of discord that is reflection*

Let's leave it here, ok?

=( Disagree. We are all just talking about a widely debated subject, this thread contains HEAPS of great information for EVERYONE with questions on the topic. Let more questions be asked and answered! We're all still playing nice.

ok. Opening up again. Sry for the inconvienience (always wanted to use this BS argument…)

From: Tad

Copyright infringement? I don't know much about copyrights, but if that was true, why wouldn't Jagex get rid of most botters by just shutting down every Java bot?

Well…That was prematurely stated. Weird how a day after we mention it, it comes into play.

Nevertheless, I like color and reflection, and I am very disappointed that reflection hasn't been updated. But I think the answer to this thread's question has been solved. SCAR isn't the only problem and reflection won't be added to SRL whatsoever due to the fact we don't have enough people experienced with java + rs etc. But, I hope nobody ditches us for RsBot, they lack a proper community, half the time everybody's flaming each other.

From: Smarter Child
Nevertheless, I like color and reflection, and I am very disappointed that reflection hasn't been updated. But I think the answer to this thread's question has been solved. SCAR isn't the only problem and reflection won't be added to SRL whatsoever due to the fact we don't have enough people experienced with java + rs etc. But, I hope nobody ditches us for RsBot, they lack a proper community, half the time everybody's flaming each other.

We are currently working on reflection. Give us a little time.

From: mormonman
We are currently working on reflection. Give us a little time.

really?? can't wait, man :D

This seems like an argument just for the argument. :) But whatever. It's amusing I guess.

From: mormonman
We are currently working on reflection. Give us a little time.

According to Timer, he already fixed it, but doesn't want to cooperate with the community..
Obvious troll is obvious if you ask me <.<