SRL Archive - Discussions & Debates

The reason this thread doesn't include "abortion" in the title is to stop people coming in and reading the book by its cover.


This thread is about an issue raised in the following newspaper article. Its rather long for an article, it was a double-page spread, but its well worth reading.

Here are some quotes to wet your appetite.

The last abortionist

Warren Hern is no ordinary doctor. He has lived under siege for 25 years, and seen eight of his colleagues assassinated. Even some of his own patients want him dead. John H Richardson meets the last late-term abortionist in America

The young couple flew into Wichita bearing, in the lovely swell of the wife's belly, a burden of grief. They came from a religious tradition where large families are celebrated and they wanted this baby, and it was very late in her pregnancy. But the doctors recommended abortion. They said that with her complications, there were only two men skilled enough to pull it off. One was George Tiller, a Wichita doctor who specialised in late abortions.

They arrived on Sunday, 31 May last year. As they drove to their hotel, a Holiday Inn just two blocks from the Reformation Lutheran Church, they saw television cameras. They wondered what was going on, a passing curiosity quickly forgotten. But when they got to their room, the phone was ringing. Her father was on the line. "There was some doctor who was shot who does abortions," he said. They turned on CNN. Dr Tiller had just been killed, shot in the head as he passed out church leaflets.

Now there is only one doctor left.

"People don't get it," he says. "After eight murders, 17 attempted murders, 406 death threats, 179 assaults, and four kidnappings, people are still in denial. They say, 'Well, this was just some wingnut guy who just decided to go blow up somebody.' Wrong. This was a cold-blooded, brutal, political assassination that is the logical consequence of 35 years of hate speech and incitement to violence by people from the highest levels of American society, including but in no way limited to George Bush, Ronald Reagan, Jesse Helms, Bill O'Reilly, Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson. Reagan may not have been a fascist, but he was a tool of the fascists. Bush was most certainly a tool of the fascists. They use this issue to get power. They seem civilised, but underneath you have this seething mass of rabid anger and hatred of freedom that is really frightening, and they support people like the guy who shot George – they're all pretending to be upset, issuing statements about how much they deplore violence, but it's just bullshit. This is exactly what they wanted to happen."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/24/warren-hern-america-late-abortion



I'll start us off: these activists who kill doctors often say the doctors are murders. Little do they know, they have become the very thing they hate.

But they see it as: "I've killed one, he's killed hundreds and would kill more."

Relevant quote: "He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

Actually he's saving lives.

Late term abortions are only done if two doctors agree that the life of the woman is in danger.

"The patients can be upsetting, too. They're under terrible stress, of course, but sometimes they come in very angry. One had conjoined twins and would have died giving birth, but she exploded when told she couldn't smoke in the office. Some treat him with contempt: usually those who have been directly involved in anti-abortion activities. They hate all abortion except for their special case. One even said they should all be killed. Only 14, she came with her mother. "What brings you here?" Dr Hern asked. "I have to have an abortion." "Why?" "I'm not old enough to have a baby."

14 isn't old enough to have a baby? Gee, sounds really "life threatening"…

Having the "life" of a young woman in danger is a very different thing from having her well-being in danger.

I hate these murderers. Honestly, how could you justify cold-blooded, point-blank murder. It puts an evil face on the rest of us that oppose abortion. That being said, I don't completely disagree. Abortion is a good option for rape-victims, or the like(such as life-threatening situations).

It is very likely he performed more than late-term abortions.

good read Yakman, thanks for the article.

From: tarajunky
"The patients can be upsetting, too. They're under terrible stress, of course, but sometimes they come in very angry. One had conjoined twins and would have died giving birth, but she exploded when told she couldn't smoke in the office. Some treat him with contempt: usually those who have been directly involved in anti-abortion activities. They hate all abortion except for their special case. One even said they should all be killed. Only 14, she came with her mother. "What brings you here?" Dr Hern asked. "I have to have an abortion." "Why?" "I'm not old enough to have a baby."

14 isn't old enough to have a baby? Gee, sounds really "life threatening"…

Having the "life" of a young woman in danger is a very different thing from having her well-being in danger.

It turns out he doesn't just do late-term abortions, I made a mistake.


Here is the rest of the quote though,

Only 14, she came with her mother. "What brings you here?" Dr Hern asked. "I have to have an abortion." "Why?" "I'm not old enough to have a baby." "But you told the counsellor we should all be killed?" "Yes, you should all be killed." "Why?" "Because you do abortions." "Me too?" "Yes, you should be killed, too." "Do you want me killed before or after I do your abortion?" "Before."

He refused her in the end. Not that it matters, he would have done it anyway if he hadn't been rude to him.
However, for life-threatening situations, I expect doctors are bound by the Hippocrates oath to help their patients.

Later in the article he actually turns down a 35-week pregnant woman who was raped, she left it too late. He says he wont risk his medical license.


That was a good find tarajunky, I had to read the article a few times carefully to pick up on it. Its suspicious for me, I get the feeling the journalist has intentionally blurred the lines between late-term and regular abortions.
This newspaper is quite left-wing, but it doesn't mean anybody should completely disregard its arguments.




@mormonman, rape victims normally take a morning-after pill, at least that's the procedure in Britain, there's no need or an abortion.

What do you guys think of early abortions, when the woman has no lump and the embryo is still nothing more then a group of cells. Most abortions are this kind, late-term ones are much more controversial because they the foetus is obviously a living thing by then, capable of feeling and suffering.

the mother has a choice, i dont see how its the doctors fault. so why would the killers hunt them down anyways?

besides, abortion is good, especially if the parents know they're going to be horrible parents, and the childs life is going to be miserable

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8488335.stm

The guy who killed Dr. Tiller has been found guilty.