SRL Archive - Senior News and General

Activity of SRL


Wizzup?

2009-11-09 11:41:11

Friends,

The activity the SRL Forum has been decreasing fast.
I think the same goes for the development of SRL. Another reason that people may leave is because they just grow tired of RuneScape, and don't like programming enough to stay here.

I think that if we don't act soon, we will lose more users.

To be honest, I am disappointed in the SRL Developers (including myself). The quality of SRL has been degrading a lot since I (and niels and ray) have stopped actively developing. We need more (new?) active developers, and a good and clear plan. I think a new SRL (5!) would definitely help.

There have been several proposals in the past. One of them included dropping the Junior Member rank. This seems like a good start. We must become more Leecher-friendly again. This alone isn't enough. We also need more scripts; and possibly focus on other games too?

Which leads me to another question: Do colour bots have a future? IMO they have; but the way SRL has been losing activity leads me to believe otherwise.

Please post your views and suggestions…

~Wizz

RAM

2009-11-09 12:00:51

As far as other games…without searching and just reading an excerpt from another post…What is Game Guard ? and how does it prohibit the use of SCAR ?

I think there are very many good scripts here, perhaps assemble a task force to fix and modify the existing ones that are broken would be a little quicker ?

Wizzup?

2009-11-09 12:09:48

From: RAM
As far as other games…without searching and just reading an excerpt from another post…What is Game Guard ? and how does it prohibit the use of SCAR ?

I think there are very many good scripts here, perhaps assemble a task force to fix and modify the existing ones that are broken would be a little quicker ?


That would perhaps work, but the main issue is SRL itself. I do understand that Developers have less time to work on it; I mean, real life is catching up on us, but going from very active to 1% activity is very saddening and shocking…

_ChArMz

2009-11-09 13:16:53

I think we must take advantage of SMART's reflection. I know SRL has always been about color, but I think its time to add complete reflection support to SRL. There are just some things you cannot do/do well with colors alone. Its time to mix reflection and color, keeping what works 100% with color in SRL, and switching to reflection on the stuff that is sketchy.

Nava2

2009-11-09 13:18:03

Sorry :(

I really don't have all that much time, and my ping issues are enough to stop me from being able to contribute via SRL scripting. I can only create things but not test, which is a heavy issue.

marpis

2009-11-09 13:24:08

New Public repo every week, at least every other week. Why? Because downloading it is so simple (SCAR -> File -> Download SRL) I believe many new users get frightened of the difficulty of getting SRL to work. Also Freddy should publish 3.22 in his site, although that's not an SRL related problem :rolleyes:

Users active in the past 24 hours: 769 (250 members and 519 guests)
Threads: 47,975, Posts: 618,783, Members: 61,809, Active Members: 930

That doesn't sound too bad to me? Or is the Active Members count lying?

Wizzup?

2009-11-09 13:35:20

It used to be more though… :)
You can also notice by the amount of posts per day. :)

Bebe

2009-11-09 13:41:23

From: Wizzup?
It used to be more though… :)
You can also notice by the amount of posts per day. :)

Scar, SRL and the SRL community are looked down on in the rest of the cheating community. Cheating with a pascal-derived color bot just isn't what it used to be….

It just isn't the "cool" thing anymore :/

RAM

2009-11-09 14:06:19

From: Bebe
Scar, SRL and the SRL community are looked down on in the rest of the cheating community. Cheating with a pascal-derived color bot just isn't what it used to be….

It just isn't the "cool" thing anymore :/


Glad to see you're still active Bebe, I never thought of uit as a popularity contest, but in some respects i guess it is….

The most appealing part of SCAR to me, has always been, that we rely solely on color, thus making us undetectable (save for bad scripts), also SCAR has many other applications other than RS, do any other "bots" have multiple applications ?

To me, hacking the client is "cheating", although harder, it's much more impressive to say that we did it with colors alone !

I admit the limitations of just color, and all the added benefits of Reflection, but the average user (including myself) is limited to what they can fix in JAVA, where as, even if SRL is outdated, you can still make an easy color clicking script to automate almost ANY task…it just won't have the anti-ban, that SRL has…..

I don't see the sense in adding Reflection based procedures to SRL, when it isn't even working %100 atm, let alone thinking of when it gets fixed, then breaks again, and then everyone (that is using SRL that relies on Reflection) is screwed , because there are only a few people that can actually update Reflection…

I like how it is now, Reflection as an include, when it's working, GREAT :), when it's not…no big deal…

Narcle

2009-11-09 14:13:27

Well I believe I already mentioned that getting reflection working again would definitely help.

Also I heavily agree to botting more games. We can work on one and gradually add if necessary. We might be able to even add SMART-like support plugins for these other games as well.

As for new devs etc. I'm all up for it. Even get suggestions for new games to bot etc.

mastaraymond

2009-11-09 14:22:23

'Other games' really sounds promising, just.. There aren't really any games where a color bot would be the way to cheat.
Most flash games just got their Memory editors.
Java games as big as Runescape don't really exist.
And for 'Real' games (like WoW), a color bot just won't do the trick..

Narcle

2009-11-09 14:24:45

From: mastaraymond
'Other games' really sounds promising, just.. There aren't really any games where a color bot would be the way to cheat.
Most flash games just got their Memory editors.
Java games as big as Runescape don't really exist.
And for 'Real' games (like WoW), a color bot just won't do the trick..


Ya that's the problem. Most would require c++ (or a more advance language) with shadow drivers, client hacking and masking. (I think those are the correct terms >.< )

mastaraymond

2009-11-09 14:29:09

Also I blame inactivity on Runescape, they shouldn't have stopped RWT.

Wizzup?

2009-11-09 14:37:17

From: Narcle
Ya that's the problem. Most would require c++ (or a more advance language) with shadow drivers, client hacking and masking. (I think those are the correct terms >.< )


What C++ can, FPC can too. So that won't be an issue. (And then I mean we can use it in combination with Pascal Script)

And I don't know how it is on Windows, but on Linux you can just capture DirectX output (eg: WoW).

mastaraymond

2009-11-09 14:41:25

From: Wizzup?
What C++ can, FPC can too. So that won't be an issue. (And then I mean we can use it in combination with Pascal Script)

And I don't know how it is on Windows, but on Linux you can just capture DirectX output (eg: WoW).

Last time I checked WoW didn't run natively on Linux.

Narcle

2009-11-09 14:44:23

From: Wizzup?
What C++ can, FPC can too. So that won't be an issue. (And then I mean we can use it in combination with Pascal Script)

And I don't know how it is on Windows, but on Linux you can just capture DirectX output (eg: WoW).


DirectX is only the visual aspect tho correct?

The best way is to just read the ram for the information - that's what Glider and the imitation bots after it do. This includes almost anything, it was required to navigate, target npcs etc. Yes it can be detected if not "shadowed" correctly as many games now have GameGuard or some form of a detection system that doesn't violate privacy laws.

Anyways anything like this would require way more coding but it would have great gains if successful for any other popular MMO.

Edit:
And no it can't run on Linux natively it requires WINE.

Wizzup?

2009-11-09 14:52:25

Yeah, but it works with WINE for sure. Are you sure WoW and other programs aren't doable with colour bots?

Narcle

2009-11-09 14:58:52

From: Wizzup?
Yeah, but it works with WINE for sure. Are you sure WoW and other programs aren't doable with colour bots?


Not with WoW, I've tried a little tinkering way back. The color spectrum is huge and its way too 3d. The only and best thing to do in WoW is killing npcs (mobs) and would require a well targeting system and navigation of the landscape. Most bots use a way point system for navigation to farm in a certain area killing a defined mob(s) set via name or IDs. Basically they use reflection type style for WoW.

Edit:
Note that this way point system for any other 3d games is the easiest, most effective and most used.

n3ss3s

2009-11-09 15:08:38

SRL/SCAR/SMART + Reflection is pissy to get to work compared to RSBot for example, RSBot - SVN Update, compile and hit run. Has quite a lot of scripts bundled.

SRL and shit - First find out where to get SCAR from and install it. Go somewhere and find out the repositories for SRL and Reflection, learn the folder structure so you install the svn into the correct folder, then find out that you have to move the plugins, go through numerous challenges brought to you by Windows, then find a script of the kind you want, find out how to insert your account info and shit, and pray to god that you didn't all of this just to find out that the script was last updated in 2006.

Also, I have to admit that becoming good enough with the client to make an updater and a Java bot, is a lot more painful that becoming a competent scar scripter, imo…

Cazax

2009-11-09 15:15:03

+ Active releases of SRL (IIRC #38 doesn't work, you need the dev's svn)

+ Good scripts. What's mining without a VEM? What is it without a working rune essence miner? What's fighting without a chicken killer? What's woodcutting without a good willow chopper? Most of the scripts I mentioned are outdated or don't work properly. I'm referring to Juniors.

+ Leecher-friendly as you said.

+ Reflection. It's great potential.

Narcle

2009-11-09 15:20:53

I suggest an easier download button for SRL & Reflection in SCAR. Two clicks you have the LATEST dev etc. release that WORKS. Scar already gets news from Freddy's site he could easily have it update the new repository locations (if it changed) or if they require an update.

To add to Cazax perhaps have actively developed scripts for what he suggested. I believe IceFire is attempting this but I'm not positive on the support.

More games:
Idk if its possible but a universal client/ram reader with the right functions (to change what to read) would have awesome potential. I'm guessing it would be difficult to accomplish this and to keep its "reading" undetectable.

The Claw

2009-11-09 15:47:55

More easily downloadable SRL, updates into the news box when SRL has been updated, a script manager which only has updated scripts, no junior members, fixed + more integrated reflection. Dunno if it will help but….its not over till the fat lion roars. ;)

Regarding activity, by next monday I'll have finished all exams and assesment for this year, so I may be able to code some stuff if needed

Bobarkinator

2009-11-09 15:54:42

I really like the color aspect of SRL. I think that should stay. I would say adding reflection as a sort of "side-by-side" with SRL. And have reflection devs that work on that but Wizzup has blatantly shot down that idea. Have your positions changed Wizzup?

Wizzup?

2009-11-09 16:18:14

From: Bobarkinator
I really like the color aspect of SRL. I think that should stay. I would say adding reflection as a sort of "side-by-side" with SRL. And have reflection devs that work on that but Wizzup has blatantly shot down that idea. Have your positions changed Wizzup?


I don't believe Reflection is the way to go. Look at it's current state. I wouldn't want to have that in the core.

But nevertheless, it would be possible to make SRL 5 more dynamic, so you can add your own random event procedures during runtime.

JAD

2009-11-09 16:20:18

We need to make it easier to start autoing with SCAR. Simple as that.

This would be ideal:

Leecher comes to the site, Downloads latest SCAR, everything else is downloaded by simply running the default script in SCAR (something along those lines..), goes to the scripts section, and picks out a script. The script works without errors because everything was downloaded properly because there was much less room for error (the leecher didn't have to download nearly as much correctly..).

Right now:

Leecher comes to site, downloads latest SCAR, has to make a confusing decision on the different repositories, has to download reflection and SMART, has to look through lots of broken scripts in the Free For All section and doesn't even find one he wants to use.

Why wouldn't this person just use RSBot?

I'll even admit, when I came back, downloading everything was confusing for me.

Only allow WORKING scripts to be in the forums as well. Put all non-working scripts in an archive until they are updated, and then they can be moved back.

marpis

2009-11-09 16:28:39

We all have to admit that if reflection were actively updated within 2 days after every RS update, everyone could simply forget colour functions. I don't think it's an impossibility that someday SRL relies 100% on Reflection, if we just got it updated in time.

As long as that's not an option, we should focus on user friendliness.

EDIT: I already suggested official SRL scripts in some thread but the idea didn't get much support :rolleyes:

YoHoJo

2009-11-09 16:38:18

Agree with JAD:
"Only allow WORKING scripts to be in the forums as well. Put all non-working scripts in an archive until they are updated, and then they can be moved back. " would be hard though, scripts break/come back/ work 1/2 way ect.

1) Make the entire process easier somehow. ScarPack.rar :D or something with everything thats needed. But its kindov as easy as it gets if you think about it.
DL Scar, Setup SVN, Move Plugins, not toooo bad :/

2) Organize the damn froums/script better somehow. (Will be a lot of work, but help A LOT)

3) (Best thing to do IMO) Just have 1 POWERminer and 1 POWERCutter made/maintained by devs (not really a team script, just someone make it, and everyone else keep it alive) These two scripts will be readily/easily available, and updated CONSTANTLY. This will show new people/leechers that "hey! SCAR is powerful and awesome!" This is VERY important and since itll be the first script people use, it will let them know SCARS powers.

4) Organize tutorials more, maybe even my Bitmap/DTM/Array ect?

5) Explain/Organize ranks/cups better so people know what cup/rank is what, how you get it, and the benefits of each ex"SRL MEMBERS GET BANKING SCRIPTS OMFGZX)

Yeh, just a quick little list.

TL;DR

As you can see, mainly organization/simplification.
Have one or two scripts that ALWAYS WORK and do things people want to atuo (mining/wc/combat) so people will know SCAR is awesome, just gotta get/make the proper scripts!
Make everything (DL) easier



Also BIG PLUS on _Charmz we NEED to eventaully make SRL all reflection (with color backup). I a lot of you hate it and think its easy ect ect, but the point is IT WORKS/ITS EFFICIENT! Ref supporters convert SRL to ref, color supporters keep updating existing funcs/procs as a backup.

IMO No need for more devs or anything, giving someone the title wont make them work any harder on the include IMO, people can fix/tweak SRL all they want and post in the public SVN section and get it commuted.

nielsie95

2009-11-09 16:40:16

We'll have to make everything easier. Tons of tutorials on the same subject isn't really helping. We'll have to focus on a well documented wiki with good descriptions and examples instead of tutorials.

EDIT: Like YoHoJo says, this also goes for scripts. Let's have 1 powerminer, powercutter, etc. (isn't this kinda IceFire's idea?)

We'll have to make everything noob-proof (including the forums, as some things aren't really clear here either). People shouldn't even be able to download outdated scripts. If they have downloaded a script, all they should do is hit the start button (that's why I'm in favour of the SRL UserForm).

And we (the staff) just have to make clear rules/protocols and follow them. Not create a rule overnight and immediately start infracting people. I propose we make the forum public where infractions show up, so people can see what we're doing.

And the thing the should change the most is that we should actually do things we promise. And only promise them if you actually have time to realise it (good examples are Scripting Competition marking, SRL Stats, things like that).

Community Building is also a point we could look into (PKing, SRL Stats, Competitions, Projects), but that can be looked into later.

mixster

2009-11-09 16:54:43

My whole point of view on reflection is simple: why use Scar when it's not made for reflection? Java bots are much better suited to it, cope with it better and have whole communities devoted to them. Turning Scar into "just another Java bot" means that it loses its one unique thing. Pretty much the whole reflection users here at SRL have no Java knowledge and only a few actually have the knowledge to develop it, which isn't close to enough.

SRL has always been about challenging people - I like SRL because it gave me long term programming skills, not because I was easily able to make a few gp on an online game. I really would like this to become part of what SRL stands for.


In regards to everything else, I whole heartedly disagree with dev produced standard scripts. It is the dev's job to produce a flexible include that allows people to easily make advance scripts - not to make the scripts. If dev's start producing scripts, then people stop producing scripts as why would they when the dev's have amazing ones already. Less people scripting means less future dev's. It's a simple process - I may have it wrong, but that looks like a pretty logical loop to me. It's similar to what happens to RSBot - they have a small selection of "good" scripts and so there's very little incentive to script. Only having dev make simple scripts doesn't fix it as it's the beginners that start to learn to script that produce them.

The end goal for any possible action should be more users without compromising scripting ability of the masses. In the end making the community as a whole better scripters is what allows the community to survive.

Just my two cents.

nielsie95

2009-11-09 16:58:36

But people also have to start using SRL. And a good way of doing that is by demonstrating the power using basic scripts like a PowerMiner. I think it would be best if these scripts are "a part of SRL", so developed by the whole community. People will start creating other scripts when they are conviced SRL/SCAR is powerful enough.

mixster

2009-11-09 17:02:00

There's nothing stopping there being good scripts or group scripts, but setting asside a large area and saying it's reserved for the dev's is silly. Why would people make and share powercutters if no one would ever use it since there's an amazing one already part of SRL?

Wizzup?

2009-11-09 17:04:40

From: marpis
We all have to admit that if reflection were actively updated within 2 days after every RS update, everyone could simply forget colour functions. I don't think it's an impossibility that someday SRL relies 100% on Reflection, if we just got it updated in time.

As long as that's not an option, we should focus on user friendliness.

EDIT: I already suggested official SRL scripts in some thread but the idea didn't get much support :rolleyes:


NxTitle and I are working on a Script Package Manager. That way we could make it centralized.

@Wiki/Tuts: That's what I made the Wiki for… :)

We can perhaps just remove the srl-pub and replace it by srl-opendev?
I never understood why one needs to install Subversion just to *download* a new rev. It's probably easier to parse the site for the rev number, and if it doesn't equal the last SRL rev number, remove the current one, and redownload it as a whole. Sure, it is some extra data transfer, but it's definitely better than making everyone reinstall SRL.

YoHoJo

2009-11-09 17:07:45

From: mixster
There's nothing stopping there being good scripts or group scripts, but setting asside a large area and saying it's reserved for the dev's is silly. Why would people make and share powercutters if no one would ever use it since there's an amazing one already part of SRL?


People come, waste hours getting shit/scar/srl ready, try using 10 scripts, fail at them all, and maybe even get banned for spamming :p, and then just leave forever chuz they think we blow.

If we just had at least one pwn basic script to show everyone "Hey scar pwns hard" then lots more people would give SRL a chance. I didnt necessarily means devs go make a good script, just good scripters make/maintain a good script for all leechers to use, I think its a wonderful idea to get more people here.

nielsie95

2009-11-09 17:11:24

From: mixster
There's nothing stopping there being good scripts or group scripts, but setting asside a large area and saying it's reserved for the dev's is silly. Why would people make and share powercutters if no one would ever use it since there's an amazing one already part of SRL?


That's the point. People wont have to make the PowerCutters, because there is a good one already. Why would you want to create another one? It's happening like that already. If there's a good Varrock Miner, why script it yourself? Unless you script for fun, but then you wouldn't use the SRL version either.

mixster

2009-11-09 17:14:02

The include itself is the only successful mass scripted project I know of. Most of the MSI's have struggled and it seems only the team competitions really do produce great results, but a few people doesn't really seem to be on the same scale you're suggesting.

Also, Wizzup, everything you described there is part of my SVN parser script - including rev number checking. It even throws in plugin moving! :)

Edit as nielsie snuck in:
The whole point of making a powercutter is it's your first step on the scripting ladder. If every script is already there and amazing, then it's hard to have the drive to learn scripting! Even if there are just so-so scripts, there is at least the drive to learn how to script so you can make it do more what you want it to. I would say rather than putting out a standard collection of scripts a new era of updating old scripts would be a better idea. Most old powercutters only require a bit of modding to fix them; a couple of banking scripts just need a bit of tweaking. So on and so forth.

Narcle

2009-11-09 17:14:36

Maintaining a POWER - mining, cutting & maybe a fighter script would show them the power of the program; as stated before. No super advance script that will bank etc.

Wizzup?

2009-11-09 17:16:00

I still believe we should drop the whole Junior Members thing…

YoHoJo

2009-11-09 17:16:16

From: mixster
The include itself is the only successful mass scripted project I know of. Most of the MSI's have struggled and it seems only the team competitions really do produce great results, but a few people doesn't really seem to be on the same scale you're suggesting.

Also, Wizzup, everything you described there is part of my SVN parser script - including rev number checking. It even throws in plugin moving! :)


UGH! :p The point is ANYONE (not just devs) make a WORKING SCRIPT (by yourself or with others) and just EVERYONE (who cares) keep it updated! So people come and have working shit to use!
Better to have working shit and people use it (and then hopefully learn/make their own/add banking/ ect)
than to have people come, fail at every script, and leave. :DDDDDDDDDDDD

Narcle

2009-11-09 17:19:15

From: Wizzup?
I still believe we should drop the whole Junior Members thing…


Lets do it… fuck it. lol

mixster

2009-11-09 17:19:43

That's a very different suggestions from your original. I just don't want everything confined to a single script. Diversity and variation is great for scripts, because it makes the community as a whole stronger. Sure everyone focusing on a single script would make that an amazing script, but it would also become bloated and so overly complex that a simple update could completely screw it all up or a single bug would take hours to find.

YoHoJo

2009-11-09 17:23:47

GAH! My point is just have a damn script that works (made by anyone) for all leechers to use! And just make sure the damn script never breaks, so all new people will think SRL is cool! It doesnt have to be some big shit worked on by everyone, just a functional powerminer! ASLDJFALFDNAHFJN!

Narcle

2009-11-09 17:25:05

Just have a select few and all of the staff that can upload the fixed version of the script. People will post improvements and such on the thread linked to it. Simple.

Or use a repository.

mixster

2009-11-09 17:28:37

If enough people were actively scripting, it wouldn't be a problem. I just feel that having specially endorsed scripts would just lead to a RSBot style situation where there's hundreds of thousands of millions of leechers simply because they have no need or desire to learn to script. I think there needs to be a balance between simplicity and intelligence in the end. Skilled scripters will leave the community and if there aren't new, keen and developing scripters to take their place it will just snowball into a state of despair and destruction!

Ejjman

2009-11-09 18:10:13

I agree with Raymond. Due to RWT, RS has slowly been dying, and that reflects on the forum.

But I also agree with Yohojo and JAD. As a leecher on any forum, you go there looking for the easiest solution, and you really want it for free. Post count always makes me mad IMO (Agree with dropping Junior). Making easily accessible power- scripts would be a really good idea, and if certain devs can try to keep up on those, then that would work great.

Bobarkinator

2009-11-09 18:40:44

We need more of a one click installer. Is Freddy still adamant on not letting SCAR be tied with SRL or did he withdraw that statement?

mixster

2009-11-09 19:17:23

He somewhat sidestepped it and said he was going to equally support other includes (erm, phoenix.scar and….).

The problem is not so much one click installers as it is there not being an obvious place to look for how to setup Scar and SRL. Widget has just released a .exe SRL downloader (and maybe Scar - I didn't look too much at it). Likewise Scar has had the option to change which SVN SRL is downloaded from for a while now I think, but just no one has put that into a tutorial and made it obvious.

Dan Cardin

2009-11-09 19:38:43

If SRL linked to a portable zip of SCAR that already had a default script in it, such as one of the already existing SRL downloaders, i think that would solve the problem of annoying setup. Easy way without Freddy's adding it into SCAR.

As for SRL created scripts, I dont think it would be a big problem if you made the easier scripts. I think Junior members is good, as it creates a boundry of getting things. SRL creates really good easy scripts, like Powercutters and Powerminers or whatever. Those are available to anyone. Its really not difficult to get into Junior members, so they wait the week, using the really good aforementioned scripts in the mean time. After that, you have all of the hopefully pretty good user made scripts. And finally in members there are the good scripts.

The flow has been broken in my opinion. It used to be, people wanted to learn scripting because they saw the great scripts that they had access to, and then realized that the scripts in members must be better, so they learned to script themselves. Now-a-days, im not so sure that people realize that/think that there are any good members scripts. So they dont care. So if the people that download SRL see really great power scripts, then they'll realize "hey better scripts in Juniors". Then once they get that "hey even better scripts in members". It really needs to start with an initial effort from the higher ups to release members only scripts, then from there it becomes a matter of lowering members standards temporarily to allow more members to use those scripts, and get better and become active. So the goodness needs to flow down from the top rather than just saying "hey we need change" and it happens instantly.

I do agree with mixster on the point of SRL made scripts though, as i think i may have implied before. The great scripts really shouldnt be made for the harder things (great meaning SRL released). Its as much a process of perception as it is, of the greediness of wanting better scripts.

Reflection, ought not to be part of SRL officially or if officially, not in bulk. It really should only be added if at all, to keep things working as a quick fix, while the color fixing is taking place. It would really only augmented SRL in places that it was lacking to allow for an always working sort of relationship.

Finally, if we're going for ease of use, i think that forms in scripts ought to become more prominent. Though, before that can happen en mass, the SRLPlayerform ought to be redone, nicerly and betterly.

Bobarkinator

2009-11-09 21:01:53

Widget's installer is still SCAR only. Unless I missed the .exe somehow.

RAM

2009-11-09 21:02:12

From: Wizzup?
I still believe we should drop the whole Junior Members thing…


And/Or let SSRL members be known publicly ?……..

YoHoJo

2009-11-09 21:09:18

From: RAM
And/Or let SSRL members be known publicly ?……..


1) What would dropping Jr member do, allow leechers to leech more easily/reduce spam, thats fine with me :D

2) RAM, why let SSRL members be know publicly? What would that accomplish?

Widget

2009-11-09 21:42:23

From: mixster
He somewhat sidestepped it and said he was going to equally support other includes (erm, phoenix.scar and….).

The problem is not so much one click installers as it is there not being an obvious place to look for how to setup Scar and SRL. Widget has just released a .exe SRL downloader (and maybe Scar - I didn't look too much at it). Likewise Scar has had the option to change which SVN SRL is downloaded from for a while now I think, but just no one has put that into a tutorial and made it obvious.


It's a SCAR script. I would have a SCAR downloader as well but I can't exactly replace the SCAR.exe while I'm using it to run the installer ;)

Also, SCAR's Form threading and firewall/filewall are a pain in the ass. Vista and/or Windows 7 will consider the form crashed even though you can still watch it write debug text in SCAR and grey it out but whatever.

From: Dan Cardin
Finally, if we're going for ease of use, i think that forms in scripts ought to become more prominent. Though, before that can happen en mass, the SRLPlayerform ought to be redone, nicerly and betterly.

I find that this style is easier to manage, though not very friendly if you have lots of per-player parameters:
Program mansLaughterForm;

var (* Form components *)
Form:TForm;
TabController:TPageControl;
Tabs:array[1..3] of TTabSheet;
PlayerScrollBox:TScrollBox;
PlayerFormEdits:array[1..5] of array of TEdit;
PlayerFormLabels:array[1..5] of array of TLabel;
PlayerFormChecks:array of TCheckBox;
OtherEdits:array[1..4] of TEdit;
Labels:array[1..4] of TLabel;
Checks:array[1..5] of TCheckBox;
HerbDropDown: TComboBox;
PlayerAdd,PlayerDelete,SaveSettings,LoadSettings:TButton;
Ok,Cancel:TButton;
AnObject:TObject; // Because TObjects can't be used as variants for ThreadSafeCalls

var (* Script variables *)
Settings: array[1..7] of Variant;

function TheForm:Boolean; forward;
procedure SetEditProperties(var anEdit:TEdit;var aLabel:TLabel;x,y,w,h:integer;text:string;password:boolean); forward;
procedure VanishLabel; forward;
procedure SafeVanishLabel(Sender:TObject); forward;
procedure AddPlayer; forward;
procedure SafeAddPlayer(Sender:TObject); forward;
procedure DeletePlayer; forward;
procedure SafeDeletePlayer(Sender:TObject); forward;
procedure EnablePlayer(Sender:TObject); forward;
procedure ScriptTerminate; forward;
procedure SaveTheSettings(Sender:TObject); forward;
procedure LoadTheSettings(Sender:TObject); forward;
procedure OnFormClose(Sender: TObject; var CanClose: Boolean); forward;
procedure CloseForm(Sender:TObject); forward;

function TheForm:Boolean;
var
i:integer;
s: array of string;
begin
Form := CreateForm;
Form.SetBounds(0,0,600,450);
Form.Position := poScreenCenter;
Form.Caption := 'mansLaughter [Edgeville Man Killer] &#8212;&#8212; by Widget';
Form.BorderIcons := [biSystemMenu];
Form.OnClick := @SafeVanishLabel;
Form.OnCloseQuery := @OnFormClose;
TabController := TPageControl.Create(Form);
TabController.Parent := Form;
TabController.SetBounds(2,2,590,385);
TabController.Visible := True;
for i := 1 to 2 do
begin
Tabs[i] := TTabSheet.Create(Form);
Tabs[i].PageControl := TabController;
end;
Tabs[1].Caption := 'Setup';
Tabs[2].Caption := 'Players';
// Tabs[3].Caption := 'Autoresponder'; // Not yet =)
for i := 1 to 4 do
begin
OtherEdits[i] := TEdit.Create(Form);
OtherEdits[i].Parent := Tabs[1];
OtherEdits[i].OnClick := @SafeVanishLabel;
Labels[i] := TLabel.Create(Form);
Labels[i].Parent := OtherEdits[i];
Labels[i].Font.Color := $AAAAAA;
Labels[i].Color := OtherEdits[i].Color;
Labels[i].Transparent := False;
Labels[i].OnClick := @SafeVanishLabel;
end;
SetEditProperties(OtherEdits[1],Labels[1],50,50,120,20,'Stats ID',False);
SetEditProperties(OtherEdits[2],Labels[2],175,50,150,20,'Stats Pass',True);
SetEditProperties(OtherEdits[3],Labels[3],50,80,135,20,'Mouse Speed',False);
SetEditProperties(OtherEdits[4],Labels[4],190,80,135,20,'SMART World',False);
OtherEdits[3].Text := '15';
OtherEdits[4].Text := '55';
for i := 1 to 5 do
begin
Checks[i] := TCheckBox.Create(Form);
Checks[i].Parent := Tabs[1]
Checks[i].SetBounds(51,80+30*i,270,20);
end;
Checks[1].Caption := 'Bury bones';
Checks[1].OnClick := @EnablePlayer;
Checks[2].Caption := 'Bank bones';
Checks[2].OnClick := @EnablePlayer;
Checks[3].Caption := 'Pick up herbs above';
Checks[3].OnClick := @EnablePlayer;
Checks[4].Caption := 'Keep door shut';
Checks[4].Checked := True;
Checks[5].Caption := 'as well as Guams (members worlds only)';
Checks[5].Checked := True;
Checks[5].Enabled := False;
Checks[5].SetBounds(276,170,270,20);
HerbDropDown := TComboBox.Create(Form);
HerbDropDown.Parent := Tabs[1];
HerbDropDown.SetBounds(170,170,100,20);
s := ['Guam','Marrentill','Tarromin','Harralander','Ranarr',
'Irit','Avantoe','Snapdragon','Cadantine','Lantadyme','Dwarf Weed'];
for i := 0 to High(s) do
HerbDropDown.Items.Append(s[i]);
HerbDropDown.Style := csDropDownList;
HerbDropDown.ItemIndex := 0;
HerbDropDown.Enabled := False;
PlayerScrollBox := TScrollBox.Create(Form);
PlayerScrollBox.Parent := Tabs[2];
PlayerScrollBox.SetBounds(10,10,560,275);
PlayerScrollBox.Color := 16119800;
SafeAddPlayer(Form);
PlayerAdd := TButton.Create(Form);
PlayerAdd.Parent := Tabs[2];
PlayerAdd.SetBounds(30,300,100,25);
PlayerAdd.Caption := 'Add Player';
PlayerAdd.OnClick := @SafeAddPlayer;
PlayerDelete := TButton.Create(Form);
PlayerDelete.Parent := Tabs[2];
PlayerDelete.SetBounds(135,300,100,25);
PlayerDelete.Caption := 'Delete Player';
PlayerDelete.OnClick := @SafeDeletePlayer;
SaveSettings := TButton.Create(Form);
SaveSettings.Parent := Form;
SaveSettings.SetBounds(5,387,100,25);
SaveSettings.Caption := 'Save Players';
SaveSettings.OnClick := @SaveTheSettings;
LoadSettings := TButton.Create(Form);
LoadSettings.Parent := Form;
LoadSettings.SetBounds(110,387,100,25);
LoadSettings.Caption := 'Load Players';
LoadSettings.OnClick := @LoadTheSettings;
LoadTheSettings(Form);
Ok := TButton.Create(Form);
Ok.Parent := Form;
Ok.SetBounds(485,387,100,25);
Ok.Caption := 'OK';
Ok.OnClick := @CloseForm;
Cancel := TButton.Create(Form);
Cancel.Parent := Form;
Cancel.SetBounds(380,387,100,25);
Cancel.Caption := 'Cancel';
Cancel.OnClick := @CloseForm;
Result := (Form.ShowModal=MrOk);
end;

function ShowForm:Boolean;
var
tva:Tvariantarray;
begin
result := ThreadSafeCall('TheForm',tva);
end;

procedure SetEditProperties(var anEdit:TEdit;var aLabel:TLabel;x,y,w,h:integer;text:string;password:boolean);
begin
anEdit.SetBounds(x,y,w,h);
if password then
anEdit.PasswordChar := '*';
aLabel.SetBounds(w-Form.Canvas.TextWidth(text)-5,-1,Form.Canvas.TextWidth(text)+5,20);
aLabel.Caption := text;
end;

procedure SafeVanishLabel(Sender:TObject);
var
tva:Tvariantarray;
begin
AnObject := Sender;
tva := [];
try
ThreadSafeCall('VanishLabel',tva);
except
Writeln('Thread error');
end;
end;

procedure VanishLabel;
var
i,i2:integer;
TheEdit:TEdit;
TheLabel:TLabel;
Sender:TObject;
begin
try
Sender := AnObject;
for i := 1 to high(OtherEdits) do
if not Labels[i].visible then
Labels[i].visible := true;
for i := 1 to 5 do
for i2 := 0 to (getarraylength(PlayerFormEdits[1])-1) do
if not PlayerFormLabels[i][i2].Visible then
PlayerFormLabels[i][i2].Visible := True;
TheLabel := nil;
TheEdit := nil;
for i := 1 to high(OtherEdits) do
if (Sender=OtherEdits[i]) OR (Sender=Labels[i]) then
begin
TheLabel := Labels[i];
TheEdit := OtherEdits[i];
end;
for i := 1 to high(PlayerFormEdits) do
for i2 := 1 to getarraylength(PlayerFormEdits[1]) do
if (Sender=PlayerFormEdits[i][i2-1]) OR (Sender=PlayerFormLabels[i][i2-1]) then
begin
TheLabel := PlayerFormLabels[i][i2-1];
TheEdit := PlayerFormEdits[i][i2-1];
end;
if not ((TheEdit=nil) OR (TheLabel=nil)) then
begin
TheLabel.Visible := False;
TheEdit.SetFocus;
end else
if not (Sender=Form) then
Form.SetFocus;
Sender := nil;
AnObject := nil;
except
Writeln('Weird error with the labels *sigh*');
end;
end;

procedure AddPlayer;
var
i,i2:integer;
begin
i2 := GetarrayLength(PlayerFormEdits[1]);
for i := 1 to 5 do
begin
SetarrayLength(PlayerFormEdits[i],GetarrayLength(PlayerFormEdits[i])+1);
SetarrayLength(PlayerFormLabels[i],GetarrayLength(PlayerFormLabels[i])+1);
PlayerFormEdits[i][i2] := TEdit.Create(Form);
PlayerFormEdits[i][i2].Visible := False;
PlayerFormEdits[i][i2].Parent := PlayerScrollBox;
PlayerFormEdits[i][i2].OnClick := @SafeVanishLabel;
PlayerFormLabels[i][i2] := TLabel.Create(Form);
PlayerFormLabels[i][i2].Parent := PlayerFormEdits[i][i2];
PlayerFormLabels[i][i2].Font.Color := $AAAAAA;
PlayerFormLabels[i][i2].Color := PlayerFormEdits[i][0].Color;
PlayerFormLabels[i][i2].OnClick := @SafeVanishLabel;
end;
SetarrayLength(PlayerFormChecks,GetarrayLength(PlayerFormChecks)+1);
SetEditProperties(PlayerFormEdits[1][i2],PlayerFormLabels[1][i2],25,10+25*i2,120,20,'Username',false);
SetEditProperties(PlayerFormEdits[2][i2],PlayerFormLabels[2][i2],150,10+25*i2,120,20,'Password',true);

SetEditProperties(PlayerFormEdits[3][i2],PlayerFormLabels[3][i2],275,10+25*i2,70,20,'Nick',false);
SetEditProperties(PlayerFormEdits[4][i2],PlayerFormLabels[4][i2],350,10+25*i2,70,20,'PIN',false);
SetEditProperties(PlayerFormEdits[5][i2],PlayerFormLabels[5][i2],425,10+25*i2,110,20,'Total Loads',false);
PlayerFormEdits[5][i2].Enabled := False;
PlayerFormEdits[5][i2].Text := 'N/A';
PlayerFormChecks[i2] := TCheckBox.Create(Form);
PlayerFormChecks[i2].Visible := False;
PlayerFormChecks[i2].Color := 16119800;
PlayerFormChecks[i2].Parent := PlayerScrollBox;
PlayerFormChecks[i2].SetBounds(5,11+25*i2,20,20);
PlayerFormChecks[i2].Checked := True;
PlayerFormChecks[i2].OnClick := @EnablePlayer;
for i := 1 to 5 do
begin
PlayerFormEdits[i][i2].Visible := True;
PlayerFormLabels[i][i2].Visible := True;
end;
PlayerFormChecks[i2].Visible := True;
end;

procedure SafeAddPlayer(Sender:TObject);
var
tva:Tvariantarray;
begin
ThreadSafeCall('AddPlayer',tva);
end;

procedure DeletePlayer;
var
i,i2:integer;
begin
try
i := GetarrayLength(PlayerFormChecks)-1;
if (i=0) then Exit;
for i2 := 1 to 5 do
begin
PlayerFormEdits[i2][i].Parent := nil;
PlayerFormLabels[i2][i].Parent := nil;
PlayerFormEdits[i2][i].Free;
PlayerFormLabels[i2][i].Free;
SetarrayLength(PlayerFormLabels[i2],i);
SetarrayLength(PlayerFormEdits[i2],i);
end;
PlayerFormChecks[i].Parent := nil;
SetarrayLength(PlayerFormChecks,i);
except
GetApplication.MessageBox('Error deleting player','Error',1);
end;
end;

procedure SafeDeletePlayer(Sender:TObject);
var
tva:Tvariantarray;
begin
ThreadSafeCall('DeletePlayer',tva);
end;

procedure EnablePlayer(Sender:TObject);
var
i,i2:integer;
begin
if Sender=Checks[3] then
begin
Checks[5].Enabled := Checks[3].Checked;
HerbDropDown.Enabled := Checks[3].Checked;
Exit;
end;
if (Sender=Checks[1]) and Checks[1].Checked then
Checks[2].Checked := False;
if (Sender=Checks[2]) and Checks[2].Checked then
Checks[1].Checked := False;
if (Sender=Checks[1]) or (Sender=Checks[2]) then
Exit;
for i := 0 to (getarraylength(PlayerFormChecks)-1) do
if Sender=PlayerFormChecks[i] then Break;
for i2 := 1 to 4 do
begin
PlayerFormEdits[i2][i].Enabled := PlayerFormChecks[i].Checked;
if PlayerFormChecks[i].Checked then
PlayerFormEdits[i2][i].Color := $FFFFFF
else
PlayerFormEdits[i2][i].Color := $EEEEEE;
end;
end;

function Encrypt(text:string):string;
var
i:integer;
begin
for i := 1 to length(text) do
result := result+Chr(ord(text[i])-8);
end;

function Decrypt(text:string):string;
var
i:integer;
begin
for i := 1 to length(text) do
result := result+Chr(ord(text[i])+8);
end;

procedure SaveTheSettings(Sender:TObject);
var
path:string;
i:integer;
begin
Path := AppPath+'mansLaughter.ini';
WriteINI('Settings','StatsID',OtherEdits[1].Text,Path);
WriteINI('Settings','StatsPass',Encrypt(OtherEdits[2].Text),Path);
WriteINI('Settings','MouseSpeed',OtherEdits[3].Text,Path);
WriteINI('Settings','SmartWorld',OtherEdits[4].Text,Path);
WriteINI('Settings','BuryBones',BoolToStr(Checks[1].Checked),Path);
WriteINI('Settings','BankBones',BoolToStr(Checks[2].Checked),Path);
WriteINI('Settings','PickUpHerbs',BoolToStr(Checks[3].Checked),Path);
WriteINI('Settings','KeepDoorShut',BoolToStr(Checks[4].Checked),Path);
WriteINI('Settings','GuamsToo',BoolToStr(Checks[5].Checked),Path);
WriteINI('Settings','Herbs',HerbDropDown.Text,Path);
WriteINI('Settings','Players',IntToStr(GetarrayLength(PlayerFormEdits[1])),Path);
for i := 0 to (GetarrayLength(PlayerFormEdits[1])-1) do
begin
WriteINI('Player'+inttostr(i),'User',PlayerFormEdits[1][i].Text,Path);
WriteINI('Player'+inttostr(i),'Pass',Encrypt(PlayerFormEdits[2][i].Text),Path);
WriteINI('Player'+inttostr(i),'Nick',PlayerFormEdits[3][i].Text,Path);
WriteINI('Player'+inttostr(i),'PIN',PlayerFormEdits[4][i].Text,Path);
WriteINI('Player'+inttostr(i),'Loads',PlayerFormEdits[5][i].Text,Path);
end;
end;

procedure LoadTheSettings(Sender:TObject);
var
path:string;
i:integer;
begin
Path := AppPath+'mansLaughter.ini';
if not FileExists(path) then Exit;
OtherEdits[1].Text := ReadINI('Settings','StatsID',path);
OtherEdits[2].Text := Decrypt(ReadINI('Settings','StatsPass',path));
OtherEdits[3].Text := ReadINI('Settings','MouseSpeed',path);
OtherEdits[4].Text := ReadINI('Settings','SmartWorld',path);
for i := 2 to GetarrayLength(PlayerFormEdits[1]) do
SafeDeletePlayer(Form);
for i := 0 to (StrToIntDef(ReadINI('Settings','Players',path),0)-1) do
begin
if (i>0) then
SafeAddPlayer(Form);
PlayerFormEdits[1][i].Text := ReadINI('Player'+inttostr(i),'User',path);
PlayerFormEdits[2][i].Text := Decrypt(ReadINI('Player'+inttostr(i),'Pass',path));
PlayerFormEdits[3][i].Text := ReadINI('Player'+inttostr(i),'Nick',path);
PlayerFormEdits[4][i].Text := ReadINI('Player'+inttostr(i),'PIN',path);
PlayerFormEdits[5][i].Text := ReadINI('Player'+inttostr(i),'Loads',path);
end;
Checks[1].Checked := StrToBoolDef(ReadINI('Settings','UsePouches',path),False);
Checks[2].Checked := StrToBoolDef(ReadINI('Settings','Autorespond',path),False);
Checks[4].Checked := StrToBoolDef(ReadINI('Settings','KeepDoorShut',Path),False);
Checks[5].Checked := StrToBoolDef(ReadINI('Settings','GuamsToo',Path),False);
HerbDropDown.ItemIndex := HerbDropDown.Items.IndexOf(ReadINI('Settings','Herbs',Path));
end;

procedure OnFormClose(Sender: TObject; var CanClose: Boolean);
var
message:integer;
begin
message := GetApplication.MessageBox('Would you like to save the form settings?','Save Changes?',3);
CanClose := (message<>2);
if (message=6) then
SaveTheSettings(Form);
end;

procedure CloseForm(Sender:TObject);
var
i, i2: integer;
begin
if (Sender=Ok) then
begin
{ NumberOfPlayers(High(PlayerFormEdits));
for i := 0 to High(Players) do
begin
if not PlayerFormChecks[i].Checked then Continue;
Players[i].Name := PlayerFormEdits[1][i].Text;
Players[i].Pass := PlayerFormEdits[2][i].Text;
Players[i].Nick := PlayerFormEdits[3][i].Text;
Players[i].Pin := PlayerFormEdits[4][i].Text;
Players[i].Active := PlayerFormChecks[i].Checked;
Inc(i2);
end; }
for i := 1 to 5 do
Settings[i] := Checks[i].Enabled;
Settings[6] := HerbDropDown.Text;
// SRLID := OtherEdits[1].Text;
// SRLPassword := OtherEdits[2].Text;
Form.ModalResult := mrOk;
end else
Form.ModalResult := mrCancel;
end;

procedure ScriptTerminate;
begin
Writeln('Script ending');
// Bitmaps and such would be freed here
end;


(**************************************
/* Main Script Start */
*************************************)

begin
if ShowForm then
Writeln('Clicked OK')
else
Writeln('Clicked Cancel');
Writeln('Form closed');
FreeForm(Form);
writeln('Form freed');
end.

Edit: I'd be willing to work on a script manager if someone has a repository system that can handle Villavu auths handy :p

The Claw

2009-11-09 21:51:41

From: Wizzup?
I still believe we should drop the whole Junior Members thing…


Yep been saying that for years

About the scripts you guys are suggesting we all make, theyve already been made. My powerfisher and miners, wizzups miners, zephs woodcutters, narcles fighters all come to mind. They just need to be updated, or the banking part changed to dropping if you want to powermine. Really these are the core aspects of autoing, it wouldnt hurt at all to have these included in SRL, keeping them updated. You guys say it will discourage scripting - but if people come to a community, see they dont even have a good, working miner/banker for example, what motivation is there to script it themselves? They'll immediately think "this place is shit, the scripters here are shit, cant even make a miner properly" and boot off to RSBot where they can get one in a few minutes. If people want to script, they will script. Its not our prerogative to force people to learn and script.

If the core, neccesary scripts are made and kept updated, it will encourage people to 1. stick around and get involved in the community, by posting proggies and coming back for updates and 2. think of other, more creative scripts that they can make themselves, such as different locations, different skills, other things like clay softeners, vial fillers, etc. It seems stupid to say "lets not make a good script, because then people wont script it themselves" because on the off chance a person new to the forums does learn to script and make it, we better hope they dont release it because then the hundreds of other people wont script it themselves either. What do we want, a community where people are banned from sharing so we can force everyone into spending hundreds of hours learning and scripting for themselves, in the meantime probably failing and leaving because theres no reason to stay here? Or an active community?

Narcle

2009-11-09 22:22:29

I more or less tried to keep my Free Fighter script updated. Only time it wasn't up-to-date is when they did the Gametab and runetek 5 engine change when I wasn't here. Now it relies heavily on SRL updates almost SOLELY on it and it could technically go for a looong time without a update.

In any case kinda to prove my point we need const colors etc to keep scripts alive. (like today with the black color change)

Naike

2009-11-10 02:51:36

Wizzup, you should really open JR.Members.

I think opening the JR-members forum with adding working scripts would work, but we're still stuck with random problem.
The runescape randoms is getting updated quite often now a days, same with small but very effective updates (fonts for example..). The current developers, I as well, got way to much on their mind for spending two hours
to fix a urgent font update, which I am rather sorry for..

I still think that SRL should be color+reflection, in matter of walking for example. Hopefully :p, all of the people reading this knows how to work with DDTMs, and it's a pain to spend extra hours to make a walk which will break two weeks down the road because RS wanted to update their colors.

Including reflection walking(as a start), could boost the number of scripts as the hardest part is now solved(However, we should stand for using color backups!).

We all should make what we define as simple scripts, powercutters, powerminers and such to get some working scripts in here. As of now, there is almost no working ones.

And again, Wizzup.. Open JR.members.. :p

Edit: We could always steal the walking hooks from other bots..

The Claw

2009-11-10 03:18:27

About integrating colour and reflection, I think this would be the best way to do it - http://www.villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51781&page=3. The last few posts by me and Boreas. You could do it with walking too, check the co-ords of where you're about to click on the minimap and if it's within a certain tile-box then do it, if not, use reflection to click there

Wizzup?

2009-11-10 04:44:05

I still think the entire "Reflection" integration isn't going to help. Using Colour as a "Backup" is a bad argument since you all know it either simply won't work for the average scripter, or only half. It's better that if you learn colour, you also learn how to walk. SCAR wasn't really made for Reflection, and IMO, you'd be better of with RSBot if you want to use it for that purpose.

About the Player Form: It isn't that hard to set up players without a form, though? :p
I did it too when I had 0 programming knowledge with stupid3ooo's Guildminer.

nielsie95

2009-11-10 04:56:23

It's not hard, but a form is easier. You can prevent a wrong player setup with it easily, plus you can save your players once and use them in other scripts more easily too.

YoHoJo

2009-11-10 05:10:07

stupid3ooo's Guildminer Stupid3ooo was a GOD (for back at Kaitniek times at least)! I love his scripts so much Wizzup! <3! Miss him :/.

RAM

2009-11-10 11:14:08

As stated before…. General Knowledge of Java still doesn't mean the average person can fix Reflection if it breaks….Average user in SCAR, can make a color clicking script WITHOUT EVEN USING SRL …we're comparing apples to oranges…one is red and shiny, and the other burns when you squeeze it to hard and it shoots acid into your eye

I think the "S" in SSRL should stand for Senior, not SECRET ….abuse of these powers has already happened, though minimal (questionable infractions) …the general public does not get a good feeling knowing that there is a secret ranking…and as stated before, it's not to hard to figure out who these people are anyways…first it was the Avatars, then the mod powers, and last "Viewing Unknown Thread" …IMHO ,I say, let the Senior members be known, I say Senior Members are expected to be on their best behavior and act as ambassadors to SRL and show, that through dedication, you can advance through the ranks…

mastaraymond

2009-11-10 11:14:40

Really the only solution would be making SRL way more highlevel. In such way that a -simple- script would just be a sequence of different SRL commands. Basically like MSI is trying to do; Have 1 function that mines every kind of ore -> MineOre(Ore_Copper) : boolean;

Narcle

2009-11-10 11:24:35

All SRL Members know about SSRL. It's in a thread clearly posted in members forum. It wouldn't matter if the general public knew imo, I think even quite a few active jr's know about it as well.

Regarding the SRL player form - I for one LOVE it, I use it all the time and put it in almost all my scripts. Its nice to not "accidentally" leave your name/pass in the script if you upload it etc. I for one push for this to be improved more if possible and also add it to the core while letting the scripters add the player form to their script if they choose. I usually have a "UseForm" const so they can use the form or DeclarePlayers.

If we continue with a core color system we HAVE to have some form of identifying inventory items and maybe bank items as well. In a way that is fast, efficient and is easier to update then bitmaps. TPA searching looks promising and I've used it for the inventory but the bank is another matter as it contains the amount of the item that blocks the full view of the item.

Sir R. M8gic1an

2009-11-10 11:58:35

I think it's all based on leecher friendliness.

More leechers -> more SRL Members -> more SSRL-> more Devs

Also, the fact that most people are growing out of RS in the upper layers of the hierarchy (devs, ssrl) and stop paying as much attention as before isn't helpful at all. There are many people who i would easily have seen as SSRL already that got overlooked mostly (IMHO) because the people voting didn't really care to investigate and are just simply not active enough to notice them naturally.

E:
Narcle:
[php]
{ Type TItem
Description: To be used for handling Items in all situations. }
TItem = Record
Name : String;
UpText : TStringArray;
ItemP : TPoint;
Stackable : Boolean;
Colors : TIntegerArray;
DTM : integer;
BMP : integer;
End;
[/php]
This is the way MSI is doing it. Having BMP + Color + DTM + Text means that if one breaks, most likely the others won't.
The way used to findign the item is similar to my smelter.

~RM

Boreas

2009-11-10 16:07:14

Leecher friendly: yes, make it easier to install. There is the old saying "if you can't be bothered to figure out how to install it, then you wouldn't be able to script anyway', or something along those lines. The problem with that is A) we don't just want scripters, we want testers/feedback too, and B) people can grow into more complex things later, even if the beginning is ridiculously easy.

High Level: yes. Now, more so than back in the day when SRL was booming, we need all the help we can get. With a framework of modular high level functions, new scripters can make functional scripts relatively easily. Because they are new, it will still be a challenging learning experience for them. Back in the day, this would leave more experienced scripters bored, not learning, brining down the community. However, I think that now there is plenty of more advanced work for them to do. Members are more involved in developing SRL than in the past, and they will be in developing those high level functions for the new people to use. Until we have a great script for everything, they will always be a need for creative, skilled scripters. Currently a lot of people think that they can't contribute because making a working script is too hard, and we need all the contributions we can get.

Items: As long as they have a static outline, and static slot positions, blacklists are the way to go. The key is being able to create themselves. Updating databases or even just scripts is easy. Even better, they don't need to be precoded into a database or script at all, they can be made during runtime. We have better things to do that updating DTMs/BMPs etc. This will be re-evaluated once FindTransparentBitmap is working, but even if that turns out to be faster, it would still be the same idea, so currently BlackLists are the best option.

Reflection: There are many ways to integrate reflection with color (in scripts and SRL), but they all fall into one of two categories; Reflection with Color backup and Color with Reflection backup. I think hardcore reflection fans and hardcore color fans don't fully understand all the differences between the two. IMO all implementations of Reflection with Color backup are doomed to failure in the long run. A good implementation of Color with Reflection backup will benefit color scripters, reflection scripters, color/reflection scripters, activity from the user feedback level up to the script and include development levels.
Now some of you are thinking, if you want color, go color, and if you want reflection, go reflection. However color with reflection backup is better than color alone and reflection alone, due to how color breaks and reflection breaks.
Now some of you are thinking, 'color will never die', and on a technical and theoretical level you are right, but think about what happens in reality, and how it affects scripts, includes, and users. The fact is that it does break, yes yes I know 'just the colors change, but color scripting doesn't break', but if a user can't mine his iron, then in a practical sense color has broken. Although you are right, color will never die, which is why it is the primary, but it still needs reflection to help it break less often, and when it does break to not turn away the user.
Now some of you are thinking, 'reflection never breaks, just the hooks change' and again on a technical level you are right. The technique known as reflection doesn't break, but again to the user in a practical sense the use of reflection for scripts does break. It doesn't work all the time, which is why it needs color. The difference is that is easier to know when reflection is not working than it is with color (color, tol, coords, etc), which is one of the reasons why reflection is the backup, it knows when to kick in, and when to not even try.
This paragraph is more of a rambling list, but w/e. LoginPlayer or something checks a server for HooksWorking:Boolean status. If HooksWorking and player set global UseReflectionBackup:Boolean are true, then ReflectionOn:=true;. Download hooks from server to an INI during runtime. This way during the time hooks are down you can still auto, and if you want you can turn off reflection completely. Every color function be runtime-updateable with colors/rgbs/hsls/tols/w.e. in INIs, which updates with hits/misses like SmartColors by TaraJunky, except that when ReflectionOn=true it will know a miss from a hit without moving the mouse, and know what are the correct values to update. This could be auto updating during runtime, and users could submit 'mature INIs' which scripters could then combine for the next release, or users could submit detailed logs with this hit/miss color info (not just feedback like 'it didn't click the tree') and scripters could analyze this and adjust their autocolors accordingly. The more a user runs a script, the more they give feedback (also more likely to learn to script), so when color makes mistakes, the script keeps going, and the color gets better by learning from the mistake. Reflection functions that currently do not have a color version at all would be an optional add-on just like reflection is today.
Probably forgetting some stuff, but TL;DR is reflection with color backup fail, color with reflection backup win.

Other points: I gotta go to work

YoHoJo

2009-11-10 16:17:47

Wow. Nice. Best Post In here.
Totally agree with views/ideas about future refl/color scripts!

Sir R. M8gic1an

2009-11-10 16:20:25

Actually Boreas, since it is harder to know when color is broken, it would be harder to define when to use reflection. However, with reflection all you have to do is check a couple of hooks, and if those aren't working then color kicks in.

I generally like the whole idea of interchangeable and AI inis.

~RM

mixster

2009-11-10 16:28:17

I'm all for having a range of good scripts. Most of you arguing against me seem to be thinking that I'm not though - I just don't think it should be a single, do it all script. I don't want one powercutter that always works in every powercutting location and works after every update. Why? Because then people won't make powercutters. They may do to learn a bit, but they would never publish, never learn, never improve from it. However, a range of good powercutters is great - it encourages learning to edit scripts to do what you want and update ones you like and mainly encourage you to share your own. SRL is a library - it should give the scripter tools to make great scripts, not give them great scripts.

Also, as the reflection talk is still going on, I just have to say (and this is in no way against Method - I love him) that it's been in shambles. Method is the only person I know who has been actively working on it for a while now and everyone else relies on him. I don't want to see this happen to all of SRL - I don't want everyone to depend on the devs and top scripters to produce all the scripts.

Little opinion, I think a separate topic for publicising SSRL rather than in here as I don't think it relates at all.

Edit: Missed Boreas's post.
The main reason why I dislike hybrids is that they're just silly if you think about it. Why make 2 scripts to do the exact same thing? They would work better as 2 individual scripts - the colour script would benefit from be produced to make the best of colour; the reflection script would be made to make the most of reflection. It's also the point of why use a less reliable colour function as backup for the (usually) little time reflection is down when it just means you have to make a whole new script for it. On the reverse side, why primarily use colour if you have an amazingly accurate method you can use? The only way you could possibly benefit would be if pretty much the whole of the SRL include was modified to use both, but I still think that's foolish while the reflection dev side is still just about a one man show.

marpis

2009-11-10 17:31:28

Now that I think about it, making a script with SRL is ridiculously easy. Here we have an autominer in 40 lines. The problem isn't really the difficulty of writing scripts, it's more the difficulty of getting started with it.


Program AutoMiner;
{.Include SRL/SRL.SCAR}

Const
RockColour = 123123;
WaitTime = 4000;
MaxLoads = 10;

Var
Loads, Fails: Integer;

Function DoMining: Boolean;
Var
X, Y: Integer;
Begin
If (Not LoggedIn) Then Exit;
If FindObj(X, Y, 'Mine', RockColour, 5) Then
Begin
Result := True;
Mouse(X, Y, 0, 0, True);
While IsMoving Do Wait(100 + Random(100));
Wait(WaitTime + Random(1000));
End;
End;

Begin
SetupSRL;
NumberOfPlayers(1);
Repeat
FindNormalRandoms;
If DoMining Then
Fails := 0
Else
Fails := Fails + 1;
If InvFull Then
Begin
Loads := Loads + 1;
DropAll;
End;
Until((Loads = MaxLoads) Or (Fails = 10));
End.

WT-Fakawi

2009-11-10 17:38:32

I'd hate to say it died when I left. But it didn't! I can tell you what happened though. We all stopped cheating. And when devs stop cheating, so does the work on SRL stop. And so does the production of good scripts stop. And so no new talents rise. And so the whole simple purpose of this forum comes to a grinding halt. Once the output stops, the input stops too. Simple.

The solution?
  • Restart cheating on Runescape. That is the first solution. If you cheat, you code, and thus you enhance SRL. So..Grab what's left of your miserable army and rediscover the fun in cheating. Not kidding here.
  • Make SCAR/SRL simple. SCAR users need instant updates. Add simple scripts to the SRL Library and keep them running. Make it noob friendly!
  • All our friendly neighbours allow transfer of money through their semipublic/private/trusted channels. Would you want that? We could have a real financial system up and running in ….Lots of ways to make money. Worth discussing.
  • Simplify the forums structure. Activity dropping? Change strategy. Modernise.
  • Extend the forums. Allow subforums of other bots/games/hacks.


For me, Cheating always has been about challenge, sacrifice, concur, and reward. I am very prood of us having accomplished this much. SRL is literally years and years of really hard and highly underestimated work. And you all participated, one way or the other. And we have kept it running over 3 years! A, and no money involved, just pure fun.

So, lets cheat! Keep the machine rolling. That is the only real solution.

Ruroken

2009-11-10 18:10:22

From: WT-Fakawi
I'd hate to say it died when I left. But it didn't! I can tell you what happened though. We all stopped cheating. And when devs stop cheating, so does the work on SRL stop. And so does the production of good scripts stop. And so no new talents rise. And so the whole simple purpose of this forum comes to a grinding halt. Once the output stops, the input stops too. Simple.

The solution?
  • Restart cheating on Runescape. That is the first solution. If you cheat, you code, and thus you enhance SRL. So..Grab what's left of your miserable army and rediscover the fun in cheating. Not kidding here.
  • Make SCAR/SRL simple. SCAR users need instant updates. Add simple scripts to the SRL Library and keep them running. Make it noob friendly!
  • All our friendly neighbours allow transfer of money through their semipublic/private/trusted channels. Would you want that? We could have a real financial system up and running in ….Lots of ways to make money. Worth discussing.
  • Simplify the forums structure. Activity dropping? Change strategy. Modernise.
  • Extend the forums. Allow subforums of other bots/games/hacks.


For me, Cheating always has been about challenge, sacrifice, concur, and reward. I am very prood of us having accomplished this much. SRL is literally years and years of really hard and highly underestimated work. And you all participated, one way or the other. And we have kept it running over 3 years! A, and no money involved, just pure fun.

So, lets cheat! Keep the machine rolling. That is the only real solution.


Can I get an AMEN? AMEN! :spot:

I think the bottom line is that we have the oldies who don't cheat anymore, but are keeping fresh meat out of it via Jr. Members and difficulty of SCAR.

Boreas

2009-11-10 18:12:28

Good to see you Fawk!

@RM: sorry I should have explained that bit more. Reflection either works or it doesn't, and you can tell by that boolean, so if reflection is working, and it gives a different answer to color, then you know color got it wrong, and more importantly you can tell what is the correct color, so you can adjust your tol/rgb/hsl/etc accordingly, and make the color function better. Reflection with color kicking in would mean that we only get feedback on how to improve the color functions like 2 days a week.

@mixster: Yes I was talking about the whole include.

mixster

2009-11-10 19:08:09

For whole include support more than just Method needs to be working on it I would think and I would say very few people are looking into it at the moment, so the future isn't too bright in terms of low-level reflection dev's.

Sir R. M8gic1an

2009-11-13 04:38:32

I wonder if RSC might spawn some life back into RS & SRL…

i guess RSC isn't mucked up due to GE, merchant clans, etc, and it may be possible to RWT again…. I haven't read muc about it, just throwng some ideas around

~RM

mastaraymond

2009-11-13 06:49:39

From: Rasta Magician
I wonder if RSC might spawn some life back into RS & SRL…

i guess RSC isn't mucked up due to GE, merchant clans, etc, and it may be possible to RWT again…. I haven't read muc about it, just throwng some ideas around

~RM

The amount of RSC players is so small that there won't really be a market for RWT.

Is RSC <> RS2: Can you trade items between the two? Are your stats the same on both, etc?

Method

2009-11-13 09:41:49

From: mastaraymond
The amount of RSC players is so small that there won't really be a market for RWT.

Is RSC <> RS2: Can you trade items between the two? Are your stats the same on both, etc?


They've been completely separate since the launch of RS2, as far as I know.

RAM

2009-11-13 15:39:52

Yep, same thoughts RM :), and yes, they are treated as 2 different accounts…unless you have already played RSC on the account before, you will be starting from scratch and have to go through tutorial Island(RSC) again, that was my thought for buying pins and making members account, I guess it's proably going to stay, but if not much interest in the next 2 weeks, then they close registration and their server load will be small, etc…YOHOJO and I started discussing a lil bit here already….

http://www.villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52688

@YOHOJO, I moved to SSRL and edited your posts, No more sweet talk to me here please ;)

Method

2009-11-13 17:52:36

You can choose to skip the tutorial by clicking the option under the spanner (wrench). It makes it a lot quicker.

Bam Bam

2009-11-16 21:35:15

From: nielsie95
But people also have to start using SRL. And a good way of doing that is by demonstrating the power using basic scripts like a PowerMiner. I think it would be best if these scripts are "a part of SRL", so developed by the whole community. People will start creating other scripts when they are conviced SRL/SCAR is powerful enough.


I haven't read the rest of this yet, but that will have to be structured. Otherwise it would get too messy too quickly.
And, I've always been for becoming more leecher friendly so I like that idea as a way to suck people in.

mixster

2009-11-17 10:55:33

You can be leecher friendly, but it shouldn't make it scripter unfriendly - there are more than enough people that can make scripts, but it's just not happening and that's a bigger concern and contributor to the 'lack' of activity.

marpis

2009-11-17 13:07:44

IDEA

When a first timer comes to www.villavu.com, he should see a giant link "CLICK HERE TO DOWNLOAD SCAR" and right under that text a screenshot of how to download SRL with SCAR: File -> Download SRL

The DOWNLOAD SCAR link would direct to Freddy1990's sites' download scar section, not to the file itself.

Bam Bam

2009-11-20 00:13:43

From: marpis
IDEA

When a first timer comes to www.villavu.com, he should see a giant link "CLICK HERE TO DOWNLOAD SCAR" and right under that text a screenshot of how to download SRL with SCAR: File -> Download SRL

The DOWNLOAD SCAR link would direct to Freddy1990's sites' download scar section, not to the file itself.


OBSERVATION
The main page is an ugly, confusing, wall of text. My eyes seriously just glazed over when I checked it.

Nava2

2009-11-20 00:21:47

From: Bam Bam
OBSERVATION
The main page is an ugly, confusing, wall of text. My eyes seriously just glazed over when I checked it.


Very very true.

I think we need to ease it up a bit. Perhaps rearrange and move the wall around etc.

Bam Bam

2009-11-20 00:31:39

In my opinion the portal needs to be done away with. Its too "forumy", and in no way professional or clean looking. SRL needs its own, dedicated, main page; with little or nothing to do with forum content, for the sole purpose of explaining who we are and getting users set up.

Let us face it, it's a pain in the ass to find anything on these forums quickly, especially if you don't know what you're looking for.

The Claw

2009-11-20 00:41:37

Agreed, with pages like: download, FAQs, About us, Our History, and so on. And a link to the forums as well.

Widget

2009-11-20 00:41:47


Bam Bam

2009-11-20 21:12:27

From: The Claw
Agreed, with pages like: download, FAQs, About us, Our History, and so on. And a link to the forums as well.


That's along the lines of what I was thinking. I also know that we have enough talent in this community to put together a website. (And, even Kaitnieks used a design from OSWD)

I don't like the portal we have as the main page at the moment because it is too cluttered with forum 'bullshit'.

Our main page needs to be clean and to the point - "professional" and do it in such a way that facilitates the growth of SRL.

I don't know about you guys, but I've been sitting back for a while watching SRL die. Now is past the time for action, and the main page is a definite problem.

The Claw

2009-11-22 11:35:28

Can you guys stop fucking with my posts without giving a reason, not only is it bad moderating its rude. thanks
3rd try at getting my potentially good, constructive idea onto the forums (this is what I had in mind):


From: Bam Bam
That's along the lines of what I was thinking. I also know that we have enough talent in this community to put together a website. (And, even Kaitnieks used a design from OSWD)

I don't like the portal we have as the main page at the moment because it is too cluttered with forum 'bullshit'.

Our main page needs to be clean and to the point - "professional" and do it in such a way that facilitates the growth of SRL.

I don't know about you guys, but I've been sitting back for a while watching SRL die. Now is past the time for action, and the main page is a definite problem.


Agreed.

We could also open up the black market to everyone, using the S* ranking system, which would draw another audience here.

Nava2

2009-11-22 11:54:38

From: The Claw
Can you guys stop fucking with my posts without giving a reason, not only is it bad moderating its rude. thanks
3rd try at getting my potentially good, constructive idea onto the forums (this is what I had in mind):




Agreed.

We could also open up the black market to everyone, using the S* ranking system, which would draw another audience here.


I lol'd.

But good idea anywayys.

Bam Bam

2009-11-23 20:29:59

This is lame.

Nava2

2009-11-23 20:31:44

From: Bam Bam
This is lame.


wat?

Bam Bam

2009-11-23 20:33:23

More because if I have a clue what's going on, it is only by accident.

Nava2

2009-11-23 20:34:29

From: Bam Bam
More because if I have a clue what's going on, it is only by accident.


Now you are confusing me..

marpis

2009-11-24 15:47:58

Great idea,

/b/ DO IT

The Claw

2009-11-24 16:49:32

Note: I was actually serious about my idea…the middle bit was just a "filler". Seriously.

Bam Bam

2009-11-24 20:25:41

Perhaps an administrator would be so kind as to shed some insight?

Nava2

2009-11-24 21:25:13

From: Bam Bam
Perhaps an administrator would be so kind as to shed some insight?


on what..

The Claw

2009-11-25 01:16:14

Basically I put an offensive (to some) pic where it says censored etc as just something to put there, some people raged and deleted my post twice (once with no censor, once with censor), and I put it back (with super-censoring) because of my valid idea about having a main, "professional" looking front page/portal for us, and I didnt see their point in removing (didnt know why it would be offensive, no one told me it was, and so on). No biggie. In other words, it was a joke in an otherwise serious post that was misinterpreted.

Bam Bam

2009-11-25 19:38:47

From: Nava2
on what..


On the changes to the main site we've been discussing here. We need the people onboard who are capable of making the changes otherwise This is a waste of time.

JAD

2009-11-26 01:15:54

Making the black market open to Jr. members, or a new rank, could be a good start.

Not everybody is cut out to be a programmer, but there are still other ways people in this community can prove themselves trustworthy enough to be a part of the black market. I really enjoy having little worry of being scammed when making trades in the black market section, it's such a nice environment. But there is just so little activity, that bringing more people in I don't think would be a bad idea.

The Claw

2009-12-19 08:47:31

http://www.villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53559

To summarise, we need:

  • Fast, accurate updates of SCAR, SRL, and reflection (reliability)
  • Leecher friendly (usability)

Are there any plans to act on this brainstorm? We're getting less active by the day, especially since the uptext update a few days ago.

WT-Fakawi

2009-12-19 09:07:11

Yes. I have lots of time the coming two weeks. I will spent time here reorganising. But first Thieving-99! (Only 550k to go :) )

Town

2009-12-19 09:42:48

We have non-developers posting fixes (reliable or not) faster than developers are able to update the repository.

marpis

2009-12-24 05:32:52

From: Town
We have non-developers posting fixes (reliable or not) faster than developers are able to update the repository.


They need to be tested before they can be committed. They are committed as soon as they're proven working.

R0b0t1

2009-12-31 04:47:15

And why do you test them…? It would seem it'd be fairly obvious they tested them themselves.

Sir R. M8gic1an

2009-12-31 09:24:22

From: R0b0t1
And why do you test them…? It would seem it'd be fairly obvious they tested them themselves.


Proof testing. It's not even hard to find a need for it as sdolers have needed to be modified already

~RM