SRL Archive - News and General

We are turning into RSBot


Tniffoc

2009-07-18 22:31:31

I was on the irc earlier today and was constantly insulted and called a "retard" and things like that. This community is turning to be worse than RsBot. I came back to SRL hoping to find a community that was willing to help people just like the old days but instead found a piece of crap that does nothing but insult somebody when they are trying something new. Just because somebody isn't as good at something as you does not mean that they are a retard. It just means that they are learning. If you help them, one day they may surpass your skill but if you insult them, you create a bad name for yourself and the community you represent. Those of you who are doing this know who you are and I hope that when another interested person comes along you are nicer to them.

One time at a conference I heard a person speaking a very true analogy. Many good ideas are turned down by people higher up in the ranks for almost no reason. These nay-sayers are very detrimental to the progress of a community. I applied this analogy to my current situation and thought, wow, how many good developers could have made SRL a much better thing but were only turned away by people who would yell at them for asking questions? Albert Einstein was removed from school for asking too many questions. He was already a brilliant man, how much better do you think he could have been if that teacher had only listened to his inquiries and helped him through his childhood instead of insulting him and expelling him from the walls of the school.

I hope that teacher, and the people of SRL, are having a jolly good time insulting people because otherwise their cruelty isn't worth anything.

Wizzup?

2009-07-18 22:39:30

I don't know what happens, but the IRC doesn't represent the community.
Furthermore, I believe that you often ask too much questions you should be able to find out yourself. You can also be impulse, and repeat questions a lot. You can piss off people who usually help by repeating the same question over and over; you must take some action yourself too. Programming taught me several things, and using google was one of the most important ones. ( http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html )

Remember, everyone in the IRC doesn't have to help you out. If they are feeling like it, they will help you.

If I take a look on the average post on this community, I think we still have a very high morale, and generally a good attitude. There will always be exceptions…

Tniffoc

2009-07-18 22:52:29

This was not about asking too many questions. I was trying to learn about the FunOrb Chess client and I was asking around for help on a good method of understanding the client because my method was terrible. When I asked a question, these two quotes popped up..

<*****`>Shut up Tniffoc, you're a retard.


Something along these lines…
<******>That is a very basic piece of code, if you don't understand it then there is no hope for you.

Pure1993

2009-07-18 22:53:40

From: Tniffoc
I was on the irc earlier today and was constantly insulted and called a "retard" and things like that. This community is turning to be worse than RsBot. I came back to SRL hoping to find a community that was willing to help people just like the old days but instead found a piece of crap that does nothing but insult somebody when they are trying something new. Just because somebody isn't as good at something as you does not mean that they are a retard. It just means that they are learning. If you help them, one day they may surpass your skill but if you insult them, you create a bad name for yourself and the community you represent. Those of you who are doing this know who you are and I hope that when another interested person comes along you are nicer to them.

One time at a conference I heard a person speaking a very true analogy. Many good ideas are turned down by people higher up in the ranks for almost no reason. These nay-sayers are very detrimental to the progress of a community. I applied this analogy to my current situation and thought, wow, how many good developers could have made SRL a much better thing but were only turned away by people who would yell at them for asking questions? Albert Einstein was removed from school for asking too many questions. He was already a brilliant man, how much better do you think he could have been if that teacher had only listened to his inquiries and helped him through his childhood instead of insulting him and expelling him from the walls of the school.

I hope that teacher, and the people of SRL, are having a jolly good time insulting people because otherwise their cruelty isn't worth anything.


Well, there is the one and only reason I never use IRC… tried it once, won't try it again. ^^

Anyway, I consider the attitude (on these forums) still better than on the most other forums (have never been on rs-bot before either…), but I must admit, that the community is definatly not what it used to be… of course, things are always changing, but I liked it better earlier… Hermen and I have actually had a little conversation about it (won't quote it, but… um… yeah :o). It somehow seems like a majority of this forum is made up of people going through some major puberty atm…. dunno how to express that better…. Well, considering the average age, this is probably true as well, but you don't really have to carry that to the forums… or at least keep it in the general dump section… (this includes jr. members as well as regular members)

I don't mean to insult anyone, I'm simply posting my thoughts

tarajunky

2009-07-18 22:57:09

IRC is a stain on the SRL community. Frankly, I don't know why it's tolerated…

Naum

2009-07-18 22:58:41

From: Pure1993
Well, there is the one and only reason I never use IRC… tried it once, won't try it again. ^^

Anyway, I consider the attitude (on these forums) still better than on the most other forums (have never been on rs-bot before either…), but I must admit, that the community is definatly not what it used to be… of course, things are always changing, but I liked it better earlier… Hermen and I have actually had a little conversation about it (won't quote it, but… um… yeah :o). It somehow seems like a majority of this forum is made up of people going through some major puberty atm…. dunno how to express that better…. Well, considering the average age, this is probably true as well, but you don't really have to carry that to the forums… or at least keep it in the general dump section… (this includes jr. members as well as regular members)

I don't mean to insult anyone, I'm simply posting my thoughts


From: tarajunky
IRC is a stain on the SRL community. Frankly, I don't know why it's tolerated…


Thanks to that. +1.

Tif: You asked me, didn't you. I'm pretty sure I didn't call you a retard :p

Tniffoc

2009-07-18 23:03:46

From: NaumanAkhlaQ
Thanks to that. +1.

Tif: You asked me, didn't you. I'm pretty sure I didn't call you a retard :p


No. You were very polite about it.

EDIT: Motion to remove IRC.

Wanted

2009-07-18 23:11:31

To say the whole community is becoming RS-Bot is really unfair, you will see thousands of hours were put into tutorials for no real benefit to the tutorial maker other than for the few that do it merely to gain reputation and earn a pixel a cup.

If you ask me I'd have to agree with what Wizzup? said above… the same was probably true for Einstein, he probably asked so many questions it distracted the teacher from his lesson.

"A smart man knows what to say, a wise man knows whether or not to say it."-Anonymous

"Read more and ask less, that's how you learn things." - Kaitnieks.

Like Wizzup? said ask smarter questions, just like you don't go to the kung-fu master to learn the basics of kung-fu you must undergo vigorous self training.

Questions need to be worthy to be asked to the skill full, however I do not approve of the name calling.

Perhaps we are just dealing with another dilemma of life…

There's really no need to remove the IRC, that's pretty stupid and won't solve anything.

Naike

2009-07-18 23:31:28

Next time ask the right people.
I will always help you, if your question and behavior is good.

MylesMadness

2009-07-18 23:52:31

From: Tniffoc
No. You were very polite about it.

EDIT: Motion to remove IRC.
The irc can not be removed. Its like if we wanted to remove srl, split offs would happen and it would live.

Wanted

2009-07-18 23:57:31

From: MylesMadness
The irc can not be removed. Its like if we wanted to remove srl, split offs would happen and it would live.


True, sort of like the reformation or Kaitnieks.com

Wizzup?

2009-07-19 00:02:25

If you can't stand IRC, then don't use it. There are lots of people who enjoy it every day.

IRC has a lot of advantages over a forum. It of course is in no way capable of replacing a forum, but it can add a slight boost to the forum.
It is a more direct way of talking to a person than over the Forum, and you can often get a very quick response to questions you have.

@Tara: I've never seen you in the IRC before? I feel it's a bit unjust to express yourself in such a manner - if you've never been there. :)

ShowerThoughts

2009-07-19 00:03:31

Meh, everyone is turning into "tools" and start bitching around + talking about shit they don't even know about… or shouldn't know about anyway…
IRC has to get a mature lesson, I have got help from Wizzup before, but that was in a Private IRC convo and not in the general with some link spam and those "Super Funny" images.

IRC should not be removed, but mature up a little bit, btw grown-ups do also NOT show bad pictures and that kind of unmature shit.

Anyways, use MSN they won't bother you there… I think.

Edit:
often get a very quick response to questions you have.

IF they actually respond to you question…
Look I know I would love to text something like "l2g" or "Google it fr00b" or anything else, but sometimes something is EASY for you, but not for the person asking THE question… Define "easy"?

Example1:
Sometimes for example I googled like 3 hours straight.
I ask my question they react like that ^.
Then I ask again they give me a google link like, HAHA l2g first hit…
2/3 times it is not where I am searching for, then they say find out yourself…
Or they keep saying I got the information in that link… and that I should use google.

Not everything happened at once but these stuff happen once in a while.

Example2:
I ask a serious question and I have googled for a long time then someone from the freaking irc says something like, "Shut up bitch" or Mixster is like, YES YOU MIXSTER is being a little annoying brat which annoys me so badly that I almost want to kill him/myself…

I am not requesting a infraction just giving an example…

I know from myself that I like to know stuff and Try to find them out myself sometimes I give up to soon and ask it…
That may be sometimes annoying or a bad "skill" to have but it's not worse then not helping someone when he needs help…

Just my few more than 2 cents…

@The people that like to annoy people, really annoy them that they get annoyed very badly:
"Trolling is fun I did it once or twice too, but you have to fix your attitude a little if you like to annoy people 24/7, that is definitely not a good "skill""

Ps. No hate & no love; Just saying.

P1nky

2009-07-19 00:03:52

lol rsbot forums is corrupted….
and srl forums arent…. The IRC is just for us to chill and help, like i go off on MSN and say shiz about harry, and James(icefire) and me messing with srl mates or Sexy chicks(ALLY! ugly ass chick; and James likes her alot) lol

Wanted

2009-07-19 00:06:03

From: ~~Joker~~
lol rsbot forums is corrupted….
and srl forums arent…. The IRC is just for us to chill and help, like i go off on MSN and say shiz about harry, and James(icefire) and me messing with srl mates or Sexy chicks(ALLY! ugly ass chick; and James likes her alot) lol


Rofl :rolleyes:

Edit: FU joker Ally is = :(

MylesMadness

2009-07-19 00:06:09

From: ~~Joker~~
lol rsbot forums is corrupted….
and srl forums arent…. The IRC is just for us to chill and help, like i go off on MSN and say shiz about harry, and James(icefire) and me messing with srl mates or Sexy chicks(ALLY! ugly ass chick; and James likes her alot) lol
Did one person understand that 100%?

Brain

2009-07-19 00:06:10

the forums are way more nice than the irc, make a thread about the chess client and you'll get people that actually want to help. And if they are total dicks for no reason they get infractions. Punishment isn't as harsh on the irc as on the forums, so people feel like they can get away with just calling you stupid without helping you.

P1nky

2009-07-19 00:08:09

From: MylesMadness
Did one person understand that 100%?


no me ingles puto

Wanted

2009-07-19 00:08:54

From: MylesMadness
Did one person understand that 100%?


Unfortunately :rolleyes:

Edit: FU joker Ally is = :(

Wizzup?

2009-07-19 00:19:14

From: Hermen
Meh, everyone is turning into "tools" and start bitching around + talking about shit they don't even know about… or shouldn't know about anyway…
IRC has to get a mature lesson, I have got help from Wizzup before, but that was in a Private IRC convo and not in the general with some link spam and those "Super Funny" images.

IRC should not be removed, but mature up a little bit, btw grown-ups do also NOT show bad pictures and that kind of unmature shit.

Anyways, use MSN they won't bother you there… I think.

Edit:

IF they actually respond to you question…
Look I know I would love to text something like "l2g" or "Google it fr00b" or anything else, but sometimes something is EASY for you, but not for the person asking THE question… Define "easy"?

Example1:
Sometimes for example I googled like 3 hours straight.
I ask my question they react like that ^.
Then I ask again they give me a google link like, HAHA l2g first hit…
2/3 times it is not where I am searching for, then they say find out yourself…
Or they keep saying I got the information in that link… and that I should use google.


Often, 'Google it' is an appropriate answer. It has been in most cases you asked stuff. ( Once again: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html )
BTW: I tried that thing you asked a while ago… The batch script the guys in ##windows linked you to was perfect; and you shouted at them for no reason.

I agree, there are cases where it may be hard to find some stuff, but if you kindly ask someone else to google it for you, they will most likely be able to find it for you.

Macro_FTW

2009-07-19 00:24:54

#define OffTopic
*Finds it funny how 10 people are viewing this thread*
#undef OffTopic
#define OnTopic

Seriously, though, try to find people who are on MSN often who generally help out on the forums. You're far more likely to get help from them than on an IRC. Wizzup?s link is also a good one; you should read it. ;)

~Macro_FTW

Naum

2009-07-19 00:28:43

From: Wizzup?
Often, 'Google it' is an appropriate answer. It has been in most cases you asked stuff. ( Once again: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html )
BTW: I tried that thing you asked a while ago… The batch script the guys in ##windows linked you to was perfect; and you shouted at them for no reason.

I agree, there are cases where it may be hard to find some stuff, but if you kindly ask someone else to google it for you, they will most likely be able to find it for you.


Have a rule about no drunks, please.
<Richard``> im not drinking cider your bastard
<Richard``> its lager your wankstain

ShowerThoughts

2009-07-19 00:33:03

From: Wizzup?
Often, 'Google it' is an appropriate answer. It has been in most cases you asked stuff. ( Once again: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html )
BTW: I tried that thing you asked a while ago… The batch script the guys in ##windows linked you to was perfect; and you shouted at them for no reason.

I agree, there are cases where it may be hard to find some stuff, but if you kindly ask someone else to google it for you, they will most likely be able to find it for you.


I know Google is a good answer and I use it A LOT, but a few of you might know the answer straight away, that's why I ask it you guys the chance one of you guys know the answer is pretty high, if everyone said google it, google it… why even communicate? Question's like how do I define a Integer might be for us SRL-Members piece of a cake but for some newer people the hardest thing to find… the funny thing is, when people link to a SRL tut is fine! great thing to do, but sometimes you guys say use the search button, but tbh it is not a very good one, even if you enter lots of words it still is not very accurate I am not the only one saying this.

I maybe was a little bit harsh on those windows channel guys but It was probably because I was using MCE, anyways that was for only replacing a crack now I made something in Delphi and I should be able to make the most games direct-play or do some awesome stuff to those…

Thanks for those who might have helped me with it :).
[off topic]
The Battlefield 2 installer I have made…
This will install:

- Battlefield 2
- Battlefield 2 : Special Forces
- Battlefield 2 : Euro Force
- Battlefield 2 : Armored Fury
- Patch 1.41
- Battlefield 2 No-DVD

On my dad's pc it took like 5 to 6 minutes. (OMG) (Dual core)
[/off topic]

Yakman

2009-07-19 01:14:24

From: Hermen
I know Google is a good answer and I use it A LOT, but a few of you might know the answer straight away, that's why I ask it you guys the chance one of you guys know the answer is pretty high,


it pretty much comes down to a etiquette and respect.

its obvious if a question can be answered by google, people dont appreciate being used like a machine.

From: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

How To Interpret Answers
RTFM and STFW: How To Tell You've Seriously Screwed Up

…

Often, the person telling you to do a search has the manual or the web page with the information you need open, and is looking at it as he or she types. These replies mean that he thinks (a) the information you need is easy to find, and (b) you will learn more if you seek out the information than if you have it spoon-fed to you.

You shouldn't be offended by this; by hacker standards, your respondent is showing you a rough kind of respect simply by not ignoring you. You should instead be thankful for this grandmotherly kindness.

#srl shouldnt delude or flatter themselves into thinking they are hackers, but the above quote applies.


From: Hermen
if everyone said google it, google it… why even communicate?


you've misunderstood something here.
not all questions can be answered by google and noone is suggesting that is the case.

"For my 3D engine, should I use matricies or Euler angles? what are the pros and cons"
then someone might say "well matricies are pretty easy to learn, but Euler is pretty efficent"
but another guy might say "the efficency isnt worth it, use matricies"
and a third guy might say "I once wrote a 3D renderer, and i found matricies were too slow"

Google cant give you that rich and varied technical discussion, unless it links to a mailing list or someplace where that discussion has already happened. But that doesnt happen often.




I'd like to quote this which you may find relevant.
From: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

The first thing to understand is that hackers actually like hard problems and good, thought-provoking questions about them. If we didn't, we wouldn't be here. If you give us an interesting question to chew on we'll be grateful to you; good questions are a stimulus and a gift. Good questions help us develop our understanding, and often reveal problems we might not have noticed or thought about otherwise. Among hackers, “Good question!” is a strong and sincere compliment.

Despite this, hackers have a reputation for meeting simple questions with what looks like hostility or arrogance. It sometimes looks like we're reflexively rude to newbies and the ignorant. But this isn't really true.

What we are, unapologetically, is hostile to people who seem to be unwilling to think or to do their own homework before asking questions. People like that are time sinks — they take without giving back, and they waste time we could have spent on another question more interesting and another person more worthy of an answer.


From: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Much of what looks like rudeness in hacker circles is not intended to give offense. Rather, it's the product of the direct, cut-through-the-bullshit communications style that is natural to people who are more concerned about solving problems than making others feel warm and fuzzy.


again #srl shouldnt delude or flatter themselves into thinking they are hackers, but the above quote applies.


Also, you may be intrested to know that Sir Isaac Newton actually had people executed for unclear thinking.
When he was head of The Royal Mint, part of his job was to catch forgers. If he saw they were idiots who did unclear thinking and got caught in stupid ways, he executed them. If they were smart, cunning and thought very clearly, he let them live.


Hermen, read http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html :)