SRL Archive - Discussions & Debates

Since SRL has been kicked off of Freenode, and we have (for the moment at least) moved to irc.dal.net. Many people have suggested we instead move to Rizon (irc.rizon.net), but Wizzup is much too busy to take comments and suggestions from people on the IRC, so I say we condense them into a thread.

Why Rizon is good for SRL IRC:
1) Their services are the same as at Freenode.
2) It is a newer network than Freenode, and therefor most of your common nicknames are not registered on Nickserv.
3) Its IRCops are very smart and kind. In #help, you can easily solve your IRC problems in less than a minute, up to 5 minutes on a busy day, or at quiet hours at night.
4) They allow most conversation, unlike Freenode.
5) Many other popular rooms related to SRL/RuneScaep are on Rizon (ie, #rsbot, #kbot)
6) Almost NEVER netsplits. I have used Rizon for years, only saw one netsplit.
7) Allows mibbit client, and translates their real IP into the host; no more people using mibbit as a proxy to troll!

Since this is a 2-sided debate, I will also say why Rizon would be bad for SRL's IRC.
1) "Goodness" #6 is there. RSBot is on the same network. We could be trolled by them, but probably not. If they troll, the Ops can easily kickban them.
2) IP addresses are not visible. It uses a hash on the IP address, so they can not ban evade, but still allows them partial anonymity. This is similar to what a WHOIS would say: "Address: [email]User@Rizon-11FE4F17.hsd1.de.comcast.net[/email]"


Now, on to talking about DALnet, and its goods and bads.
Good:
1) Allows full IP WHOISes. ie, if I whois Wizzup: "~puzziw@82.92.130.193".
2) I can not think of anything better about this network, sorry. Please post if you have any ideas about what is good about the network.

Badness:
1) Same as #1 for Goods. Your full IP address is easily visible, allowing you no anonymity. Though you do not "need it", it is still a very nice feature to heve your IP hidden, as resistance against people trying to DDoS you, hack you, etc etc etc.
2) Its services are very confusing and limited. You must send a message to <SERVICENAME>@services.dal.net, instead of <SERVICE NAME>, which works on all other networks. It is a lot of work that is unneeded.
3) A LOT of functions on the services is missing, such as being able to group usernames. You must make a different email and nickserv account per account you want to stop imposers, such as Harry_, Harry`, etc.
4) They netsplit quite a bit. Just in the last day I was there, I detected 3 netsplits, all from different sub-networks. That is no fun.
5) Almost no rooms anyone here uses is on DALnet. Not many people use that network.
6) Disallows mibbit and all webclients.


I understand well that is is up to Wizzup whatever he wants to do with the IRC room. I am just trying to show him what the community wants to use. It is up to him to decide what he wants to use, regardless of what we say, but it is very nice if you would explain your votes in this thread.

So please discuss. Do you like DALnet (the current network SRLIRC is on), would you prefer Rizon, or do you have a different network in mind that is popular, and is not named "freenode"? Wizzup has no time to install an IRCd on Villavu's server, though it would be nice. Please post about what you want to use for SRLIRC here.

I say Freenode

From: Simtoon
I say Freenode

Did you even bother to read the thread? :duh: Wizzup has had SRL kicked off Freenode and it can not return.

Why was we kicked off?

I wouldn't mind moving to Rizon, considering I'm familiar with the services and am on there every time I'm on IRC anyways. I've also experienced very slow connection times with DALnet.

From: Buckleyindahouse
Why was we kicked off?

Long story.

Short story: A lot of our users trolled other chans. Which made complaints. The staffers got angry at Wizzup, so he just gave up. It was annoying for both of them.

From: Method
I wouldn't mind moving to Rizon, considering I'm familiar with the services and am on there every day anyways. I've also experienced very slow connection times with DALnet.

And Rizon uses the same services as Freenode. And DALnet goes very slow for me too.

i vote rizon, *anything* would be better than DAL =/

From: Simtoon
I say Freenode

I concur. However since we have a few trolls, that is not an option.
I believe moving to Rizon would be smart, but the cost of that, would be having to redirect people once again to another network =\

I tested with two clients: I typed in one client, and it took about 3 or 4 seconds for it to show up on the other client =\

From: noidea
I concur. However since we have a few trolls, that is not an option.
I believe moving to Rizon would be smart, but the cost of that, would be having to redirect people once again to another network =\

A lot of people already use Rizon, and moving to a better network is better than not moving at all, in my opinion.

I vote Rizon, from what I know and have experienced, it's definitely much better than DALNet.

From: Harry
Did you even bother to read the thread? :duh: Wizzup has had SRL kicked off Freenode and it can not return.

they asked, if they really wanted us off they would do more.

From: Simtoon
they asked, if they really wanted us off they would do more.

That kinda sounds like saying it's okay to ignore a warning from a cop, because if they really wanted you to stop, they'd have arrested you.

Use GameSurge…
Rizon, from what I know is not reputable of CLEAN channels…aka counter-strike hacking channels, etc.

From: osmm
Use GameSurge…
Rizon, from what I know is not reputable of CLEAN channels…aka counter-strike hacking channels, etc.

Gamsurge uses fail services that DALnet uses. Rizon has rooms related to cheating in Online Games.. is that not what SRL is?! :duh:

From: noidea
I tested with two clients: I typed in one client, and it took about 3 or 4 seconds for it to show up on the other client =\

that's just your lag (everybody has some), not the server being slow

From: Tootoot222
that's just your lag, not the server being slow

I have tested this too, both on Kimsufi.co.uk seedboxes, and also Server.lu boxes. Both are 1Gbit. Both took a lot longer for the message to be sent, even with the boxes being on the same sub-ircnet.

I am sorry guys. I trolled quite often on gaygeeks-asl… changed my name everytime cuz they kept banning me.

Voted Rison, for the reasons you posted.

From: Harry
Wizzup has had SRL kicked off Freenode and it can not return.

From: Harry
Since SRL has been kicked off of Freenode,

How can you possible say that you idiot.
it was because of people like you that we had to leave freenode, people who trolled channels and did other bad things.

I'm not gonna allow you to shift the blame onto someone like Wizzup.

you guys know who you are, you brought this onto yourself. And now you can reap what you sow.

Just one question, what are you trying to accomplish here? That we move? Near 0 chance that's going to happen, especially as it's you who's asking to do so. Makes people paranoid.
And you're first post is very, very subjective. You're only posting "rizon is good dalnet is bad", and trying to masquerade it a bit..
Anyways to talk about your bad points:

From: Harry
1) Same as #1 for Goods. Your full IP address is easily visible, allowing you no anonymity. Though you do not "need it", it is still a very nice feature to heve your IP hidden, as resistance against people trying to DDoS you, hack you, etc etc etc.

Cares, also makes it easier to ban them. Get a firewall.

2) Its services are very confusing and limited. You must send a message to <SERVICENAME>@services.dal.net, instead of <SERVICE NAME>, which works on all other networks. It is a lot of work that is unneeded.

/ns, /nickserv etc. alias it, and tons of other networks (Quakenet for example) do the same

3) A LOT of functions on the services is missing, such as being able to group usernames. You must make a different email and nickserv account per account you want to stop imposers, such as Harry_, Harry`, etc.

Good! Saves the hassle of having multiple nicks, as you can only use one at the same time it's just gay to have 200 nicks grouped onto your account.

4) They netsplit quite a bit. Just in the last day I was there, I detected 3 netsplits, all from different sub-networks. That is no fun.

All big networks got netsplits, period. If you got 40 servers yea then there might be one who isn't working correctly.
[qupte]
5) Almost no rooms anyone here uses is on DALnet. Not many people use that network.

Not many people use it?? It's the nr. 5 IRC network of the world!

6) Disallows mibbit and all webclients.

Good against ban evading <333

And their services? They got the best ones.

From: Yakman
How can you possible say that you idiot.
it was because of people like you that we had to leave freenode, people who trolled channels and did other bad things.

I'm not gonna allow you to shift the blame onto someone like Wizzup.

you guys know who you are, you brought this onto yourself. And now you can reap what you sow.

I did not blame it on Wizzup at all, read the rest of the post before calling me an idiot; I stated that many users on it forced Wizzup, meaning the SRL group to leave. Thanks.

From: Markus
Just one question, what are you trying to accomplish here? That we move? Near 0 chance that's going to happen, especially as it's you who's asking to do so. Makes people paranoid.
And you're first post is very, very subjective. You're only posting "rizon is good dalnet is bad", and trying to masquerade it a bit..
Anyways to talk about your bad points:

Cares, also makes it easier to ban them. Get a firewall.
/ns, /nickserv etc. alias it, and tons of other networks (Quakenet for example) do the same
Good! Saves the hassle of having multiple nicks, as you can only use one at the same time it's just gay to have 200 nicks grouped onto your account.
All big networks got netsplits, period. If you got 40 servers yea then there might be one who isn't working correctly.
[qupte]
5) Almost no rooms anyone here uses is on DALnet. Not many people use that network.

Not many people use it?? It's the nr. 5 IRC network of the world!
Good against ban evading <333

And their services? They got the best ones.
Because, I hate their network. Also, I am not, I am explaining why I dislike DALnet, and why both of the networks have their goods and bads, and why I like one better than the other, and to allow users of SRL to give their say. Also, why if I suggest it mean that it would have some sort of problem with it? I gave up being a l33t sk1dd1e 5 years ago.

How is it easier to ban an IP, rather than a hashed IP? It is still a constant string >.> Also, why the hell should we be required to get a firewall to chat on IRC? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard, no offense.

How about no one needs to change the default scripts in mIRC and other clients? Why the devil should people have to change their clients a lot, just to use a new network?

You like people using the nickname "Markus_", when yours is "Markus" to impersonate as you, etc? I do not like it one bit.

Then they need to get better servers. kthx.

No one in relation to SRL's projects uses it. Hence, less people would be on that network to /j the chan, making less people, and more hassle for people to move.

Explain to me how their services are the best, please. With a lot of features being limited, and requiring a lot of changes to client scripts makes them good, right? Explain more please.

The users of SRL already gave their say by getting us moved from Freenode.
And for those who got a dynamic IP, it's a bit harder to ban an entire subnet without banning another 50k innocent people.
If they want to use Markus_, that's their decision. Welcome to IRC, live with it or die. We could also move to EFNet/IrcNet if you wish.

And requiring a lot of changes to the client scripts?? DALNET got the most used services ever! They were also the first ones, so that point is 100% invalid.

From: Buckleyindahouse
Why was we kicked off?

A specified group of people…

Harry and his group of IRC Bots.

From: Markus
The users of SRL already gave their say by getting us moved from Freenode.
And for those who got a dynamic IP, it's a bit harder to ban an entire subnet without banning another 50k innocent people.
If they want to use Markus_, that's their decision. Welcome to IRC, live with it or die. We could also move to EFNet/IrcNet if you wish.

And requiring a lot of changes to the client scripts?? DALNET got the most used services ever! They were also the first ones, so that point is 100% invalid.

And banning a huge IP range is any better? Not really, in my opinion.
You would rather have someone come in as Harry__, mass highlight, then have everyone be pissed at me?
I would die if you moved to EFnet. Please, anything but efnet.

Their services have not ALWAYS required you send the message to the host as well as the nickname. Until recently, it was normal like all other IRC networks.

From: Hermen
A specified group of people…

Harry and his group of IRC Bots.

You are a fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu [liek my censorship?] idiot. Do not talk about stuff you have no idea about. My bots had BOLLOCKS to do with the leave from freenode. Go away.

1) I never trolled other chans, except for #SRL.
2) Staffers were not in #SRL until others from the room trolled rooms people cared about, ie #Windows, #Linux, etc.
3) No one has of yet given me any examples from when the staffers were ever mad at me. Most of them like me. I help out a lot.



Also, guys, I did not make this thread for a debate about Freenode. That is in the past. Let's focus on what network would be the best in the future, and why. If I wanted a blame-these-people-for-killing-SRL-IRC thread, I would have made it. I know the network is not going to move probably, I just wanted the staff to get a general consensus on what network the general community likes the most, if/when Wizzup decides he wants a different network to call home for us.


Edit:

Markus92 sets mode: +b *!*@cpe-*.twcny.res.rr.com
* TheGame was kicked by Markus92 (permanent ban this time, sorry but after 20 times you deserve it)

Uh huh, real classy way to get rid of me whilst in a debate with you. Really pro, man. Oh well, I guess when you are losing a discussion and you are an op, it is the easiest way to "win".

I thought you said you didn't care to which Network we went anymore…?

There's a reason I chose for DALNet. In contrary to EFNet, etc, it has good services. And I don't like to be on the same server as RSbot. We all saw what happened last time.

I really love how you keep erasing my posts for no reason.

I didn't erase any post.

From: Markus
I didn't erase any post.

Yet you were the only one viewing the thread, and 5 or 6 of our comments went away. http://i30.tinypic.com/4los3n.png

Moderated != Deleted.

Hehe ^^ a forum with smart people, everyone thinks: 'I am right.' :p.

Harry should just stop this whining (oh well, I assume he will now atleast). I don't care what network we use and even if I did I wouldn't start some huge whinefest and bitch about it endlessly, everyones heard a 1000 times already that you don't like the network, so just shut up and stop with those butthurt temper tantrums, you just make yourself look immature and stupid.

it's not solely harry though, many other users dislike dal as well

From: Wizzup?
Moderated != Deleted.

If I could see them before, and now I can't it's deleting.

From: Tootoot222
it's not solely harry though, many other users dislike dal as well

I've seen other users comment that they don't like it, but haven't seen other users bitch about it as much or make a thread about it.

E:

From: MylesMadness
If I could see them before, and now I can't it's deleting.

Maybe you just don't have the rights to view them at the moment, and he may have also meant that he didn't delete/hide/???? them without a reason as Harry sort of implied.

It doesn't matter if I could if I was mod, its now. That censorship, and thats bull shit

I dislike DALnet as well, but that's only because I dislike change, and moving from FreeNode to DALnet is change… I would much rather have stayed on FreeNode, and started banning the idiots that ultimately got us kicked off - Harry, Simtoon, etcetera… - a lot earlier.

Oh, and Harry:

From: Harry

Markus92 sets mode: +b *!*@cpe-*.twcny.res.rr.com
* TheGame was kicked by Markus92 (permanent ban this time, sorry but after 20 times you deserve it)

Uh huh, real classy way to get rid of me whilst in a debate with you. Really pro, man. Oh well, I guess when you are losing a discussion and you are an op, it is the easiest way to "win".

7786 Jul 12 05:45:17 <kz`> http://disc.420chan.org/chem/src/1247351458035.jpg
7787 Jul 12 05:45:31 <TheGame> Server not found
7788 Jul 12 05:45:32 <TheGame>
7789 Jul 12 05:45:32 <TheGame>
7790 Jul 12 05:45:32 <TheGame>
7791 Jul 12 05:45:32 <TheGame>
7792 Jul 12 05:45:32 <TheGame>
7793 Jul 12 05:45:34 <TheGame>
7794 Jul 12 05:45:36 <TheGame>
7795 Jul 12 05:45:38 <TheGame>
7796 Jul 12 05:45:38 * Markus92 sets ban on *!*@cpe-24-59-84-153.twcny.res.rr.com
7797 Jul 12 05:45:48 <kz`> http://disc.420chan.org/chem/src/1247351458035.jpg
7798 Jul 12 05:45:51 * Markus92 has kicked TheGame from #SRL (permanent ban this time, sorry but after 20 times you deserve it)
7799 Jul 12 05:46:01 <kz`> who was that?
7800 Jul 12 05:46:07 <Ogre`> harryy
7801 Jul 12 05:46:11 <kz`> lol
7802 Jul 12 05:46:15 <cycrosism> his an idiot
7803 Jul 12 05:46:18 <@Markus92> oh well he's gone now.

He wasn't in a discussion with you. He was, prior, but that wasn't the reason for the ban. Just saying…

From: GoF
I've seen other users comment that they don't like it, but haven't seen other users bitch about it as much or make a thread about it.

I saw lets blame Obama.
He's the one always taling about change.

And, oddly enough, Harry talks about it as if he weren't one of those people…

Actually none. We dont need an irc. Lets just bring some fricking activity to these forums.

From: kingarabian
Actually none. We dont need an irc. Lets just bring some fricking activity to these forums.

Your ignorance is amazing

From: MylesMadness
Your ignorance is amazing

And you saying random shit is amazing. I dont know in what way I was being ignorant. I think you need to google the definition of ignorance.

From: kingarabian
And you saying random shit is amazing. I dont know in what way I was being ignorant. I think you need to google the definition of ignorance.

IRC <> forums. They are different and the kind of talk in irc would likely be even more horribly spammy and useless if it were moved to the forums.

From: Dan Cardin
IRC <> forums. They are different and the kind of talk in irc would likely be even more horribly spammy and useless if it were moved to the forums.

Well we didnt have that problem before it was made…

bad habits and all that. Though it does make discussion and help much quicker with more input and potentially better. Its only lacking in the history factor, which can be easily dealt with.

If I can type me message into a box, press enter and everyone else in the channel can read my message and vice versa, then the server is good enough for me.

Since the IRC, Everyone is talking about sex 99% of the time.
Pure1993 said to me on msn: That everyone here became mindless zombies…

From: Tootoot222
it's not solely harry though, many other users dislike dal as well

Likewise. I'm not touching DALNet, as it's extremely slow for me and periodic disconnections, netsplits and an increasing amount of lag.

I'm sorry, but is there no better network that you can choose other than DALNet? I mean, there are heaps.. SurrealChat (irc.surrealchat.net), AustNet (au.austnet.org) and Oceanius (irc.oceanius.com).

Please anyone of those mentioned above. If you want more of a FreeNode (hyperion) feel of commands, then go with Oceanius or AustNet. Otherwise, choose SurrealChat which is fast and runs UnrealIRCd :)

From: Hermen
Since the IRC, Everyone is talking about sex 99% of the time.
Pure1993 said to me on msn: That everyone here became mindless zombies…

4chan did more for that. All IRC did was easily allow people to come into contact with it. Not much sex talk goes on on IRC any more though. Kinda saddening in a way…


[QUOTE=Dan's The Man;600683]Likewise. I'm not touching DALNet, as it's extremely slow for me and periodic disconnections, netsplits and an increasing amount of lag.


No problems for me. I just pinged myself and Jason2gs on it - I got a reply in 0.30 seconds and 0.81 seconds from him, which is pretty impressive for going across to the US :)

IRC –> 4Chan
Without IRC no 4Chan.
Everyone is f*cked up, literally. (I don't request a Infraction, Just saying the truth)

Meh… It's quiet in the IRC so that's fine.

[QUOTE=Dan's The Man;600683]Likewise. I'm not touching DALNet, as it's extremely slow for me and periodic disconnections, netsplits and an increasing amount of lag.

I'm sorry, but is there no better network that you can choose other than DALNet? I mean, there are heaps.. SurrealChat (irc.surrealchat.net), AustNet (au.austnet.org) and Oceanius (irc.oceanius.com).

Please anyone of those mentioned above. If you want more of a FreeNode (hyperion) feel of commands, then go with Oceanius or AustNet. Otherwise, choose SurrealChat which is fast and runs UnrealIRCd :)

The Claw has no problems with the network latency…

I live 10 minutes away from The Claw, my latency has been 0.0s the whole time. Only 1 netsplit i have seen and only like 5 users got dc'd from it. DALnet is fine, its also much better because there is no /ns group so everyone only gets 1 nick (unless you decide to register multiple nickserv accounts on the network)

It's fine i dont have a problem with it

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<Widget`> NO U
<Tniffoc> NETSPLIT!!!
<Mylesmadness> NET SPLIT!
<Tootoot222> LOL

Just from like 3 minutes ago. I think this is the 5th one I've seen.

I wish we could be on Rizon, but Wizzy is too afraid of #RSBot tolling us and vice versa.

From: Da 0wner
Lmao…that cannot continue…Wizzy Rizon pl0x :)?

If there's one way you'll get absolutely nothing done from me, is by using leet speak.
Second, I've only seen one Netsplit on DAL.net, and it only lasts for a few minutes, I don't see why you guys think it is a big deal.

From: Wizzup?
If there's one way you'll get absolutely nothing done from me, is by using leet speak.
Second, I've only seen one Netsplit on DAL.net, and it only lasts for a few minutes, I don't see why you guys think it is a big deal.

I've seen like 5 in 3 or 4 days =\

The only problem with Freenode is that the majority of people there were 25+, but we were a small cheating community with people aged around 12-16, and most people here were able to be mature enough to stay there, by due to some people posting several NSFW links etc. we had a total of 4 staffers constantly in #srl. I personally wasn't there when we were officially asked to change servers, however.

As far as I have seen, there is absolutely nothing wrong with irc.dal.net, it does its job, and its much nicer not having #srl full of pointless bots and staffers for once.

Harry, can you see that this is a chance for you to prove you can be relatively mature on IRC? It will come back to you in a good way. I guess you've got off to a good start…

From: Richard

Harry, can you see that this is a chance for you to prove you can be relatively mature on IRC? It will come back to you in a good way. I guess you've got off to a good start…

Actually, it's not. He's been permanently banned from IRC.

From: senrath
Actually, it's not. He's been permanently banned from IRC.

Permanently is never permanent from much of what I've seen.

You're not very good at this, are you, Richard?

From: Jason2gs
You're not very good at this, are you, Richard?

Excuse me?

Permanent = permanent in this case.

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* cycrosism (~mark@150.101.154.243) Quit (punch.va.us.dal.net ninja.hub.dal.net)
* Tootoot222 (~Tootoot22@72.47.53.254) Quit (punch.va.us.dal.net ninja.hub.dal.net)
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* jenkins (~barabajag@cpe-24-193-251-80.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (punch.va.us.dal.net ninja.hub.dal.net)

Hmm.

<mc_teo> lol < 40 people on the server
<cycrosism> im gonna auto on those worlds
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<cycrosism> wtf!!!
<cycrosism> Wizzup, epic ns!
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<mc_teo> lol
<mc_teo> netsplit
<noidea> lol
<noidea> and he says there are rare netsplits
<mc_teo> thats the biggest ive ever seen

lol

Heh, it seems like only Zeph and I escaped the netsplit. :p

Well, after i disconnected about 3 hours ago, i've been trying to reconnect and i finally did it (3 hours later) :D Finally!

<Mayazcherquoi> http://www.codebot.org/articles/?doc=9553

<Mayazcherquoi> lol!

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<Mayazcherquoi> btw

<Mayazcherquoi> where's iSpy?

<noidea> I'm going on holiday guys

<cycrosism> i spy with my little eye something long and hard

<cycrosism> submarine

<noidea> I'll be gone till saturday

<cycrosism> have fun

<Simtoon> Mayazcherquoi, lol thats funny

<Mayazcherquoi> xD

<Tootoot222> Mayazcherquoi: that vid was fucking hilarious

<Mayazcherquoi> I know! :D :D :d

<Mayazcherquoi> Anyways, Wizzup_:

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* Loaded log from Thu Jul 16 15:01:58 2009

–> Now talking on #srl
* Topic for #srl is: Talk about the SRL Resource Library here | Channel is logged: http://www.thehhd.com/irc/ | More than three lines: www.pastebin.com | Be wise. No NSFW, Flaming, Cursing, etc. | Channel ops reserve the right to kick and/or ban for any reason | Keep bots laconic.
* Topic for #srl set by Markus92 at Wed Jul 15 01:05:31 2009
<Mayazcherquoi> ffs
<Mayazcherquoi> finally
<Mayazcherquoi> after like 3 hours of trying to reconnct to DALNet :@
<[-jesus-]> who be u
<[-jesus-]> i cant remember
* #srl :Unknown command
<cycrosism> daniel is the man
<[-jesus-]> oic
<Jason2gs> Hi [-jesus-]
<Jason2gs> wat
<cycrosism> omg its jesus christ

From: GoF
Hmm.

The number of users doesn't matter in a Netsplit…


Anyway, the public poll has spoken, we are moving to rizon in the next few days.
I recommend everyone to start registering his nickname on rizon, and join #srl. There are also a few other communities in there, #rsbot, for example. I will be in their channel all the time too, and if you are caught misbehaving there, you will also be banned from #srl. You have been warned.

EDIT: irc.rizon.net

No fuck that :<.