SRL Archive - NOTA

BlackJack


zonfire

2009-07-10 07:50:40

Anyone here tried to count cards? just curious of what kind of success you have had also your opinion on whether u agree with some theories which state you can beat CSM's by using a smaller count. i have tried it out and have success so far, do you think its just luck or is beatable.

also anyways to maximise your chances of perfect pairs i have a theory i will share if this thread gets any interest

Camaro'

2009-07-10 08:03:40

From: zonfire
Anyone here tried to count cards? just curious of what kind of success you have had also your opinion on whether u agree with some theories which state you can beat CSM's by using a smaller count. i have tried it out and have success so far, do you think its just luck or is beatable.

also anyways to maximise your chances of perfect pairs i have a theory i will share if this thread gets any interest


I think blackjack is a luck game, you gotta know how to play, but once u do, its luck from there

senrath

2009-07-10 08:06:43

Counting cards does work. The only problem is that it isn't actually that profitable on your own, which is the only time it's legal.

JAD

2009-07-10 08:22:11

From: senrath
Counting cards does work. The only problem is that it isn't actually that profitable on your own, which is the only time it's legal.


It is not illegal by law, just by casinos. You cannot be fined for card counting because they cannot prove it. And plus, using your brain to do good in the game shouldn't be against the rules in my opinion :)


In black jack, if you follow the basic strategy card for all situations (google basic strategy card for black jack), the house has a 50.6% advantage and you have a 49.4% chance. So the house has an advantage of 1.2% without you counting cards.

If you count cards perfectly (which it probably gets hard to do it in casinos with all the noise and trying not to look like you're thinking too hard, you can't use your hands to make numbers…etc.) You can end up with a 3-5% advantage over the house.

With 1 deck you can REALLY increase your odds if you get a hot deck (which is more common in smaller decks). The problem is they keep a very close eye on 1 deck tables (if you can even find one) and the shoe is further up so less cards are delt (I think it's usually reshuffled every time with a lot of them).


Counting cards is easy. Count starts at 0. 2,3,4,5,6 = +1 to the count. 7,8,9 doesn't change the count. Everything else -1. That's for hi-lo counting system. There is also the KO system which I kind of like which calls 7's a good thing to get rid of. So 2,3,4,5,6,7 = +1 8 and 9 = 0 and others are -1. If you count a whole deck right using the KO system, you will not end up with 0 at the end like with hi-lo, you will end up with +4.

zonfire

2009-07-10 08:30:05

i find counting cards quite easy, as JAD said its basic maths which doesnt require much more that adding subtracting 1 other that getting the true count. what i was wanting to make this thread about is anyone had success with CSM (Continuous Shuffling Machines) as the cards are put back into a machine and shuffled after each hand, some people claim to have success in using a smaller count.

also the perfect pair theory is 3 people maiking different counts, one counts Black and Red the other normal counting of hi low and the third odd and even. if these three swing anyway at all it would increase pairs, coloured pairs and perfect pairs occuring am i correct?

senrath

2009-07-10 08:35:22

From: JAD
It is not illegal by law, just by casinos. You cannot be fined for card counting because they cannot prove it. And plus, using your brain to do good in the game shouldn't be against the rules in my opinion :)


It's not against the rules. What's against the rules is for you to bring in other people once the game is hot in order to cash in. Counting cards on your own is fine (you'll make money, but not much), while counting in a group is a big no-no.

From: zonfire
what i was wanting to make this thread about is anyone had success with CSM (Continuous Shuffling Machines) as the cards are put back into a machine and shuffled after each hand, some people claim to have success in using a smaller count.

Oh. No, counting doesn't work against CSMs. But as far as I know, CSMs are barely used at all.

zonfire

2009-07-10 08:40:28

i live in australia and CSM's are used at every table it licks balls

noidea

2009-07-10 08:48:38

I bet you saw the movie "21" :p

zonfire

2009-07-10 11:55:18

i have seen it, its inaccurate in my opionion like y does the high roller have to keep count as well?

JAD

2009-07-10 20:56:28

From: zonfire
i have seen it, its inaccurate in my opionion like y does the high roller have to keep count as well?


In case the count gets worse/better, he can bet accordingly.

They were having RIDICULOUSLY high counts such as 15+ that you would never get in a casino. And they made it seem like counting cards made you win 100% of the time, which it definitely does not.

Counting cards does give you an advantage over the house though, which you cannot really get in any other game other than poker.

senrath

2009-07-10 21:06:50

From: JAD
In case the count gets worse/better, he can bet accordingly.

They were having RIDICULOUSLY high counts such as 15+ that you would never get in a casino. And they made it seem like counting cards made you win 100% of the time, which it definitely does not.

Counting cards does give you an advantage over the house though, which you cannot really get in any other game other than poker.


If I remember correctly, the book was pretty accurate, they just changed a lot for the movie to make it less boring for the general public. Think about the reality of card counting. Now, do you think a movie that portrayed card counting accurately would do very well with the general public, or would it just bore them to death?

zonfire

2009-07-11 07:04:37

From: JAD
In case the count gets worse/better, he can bet accordingly.

They were having RIDICULOUSLY high counts such as 15+ that you would never get in a casino. And they made it seem like counting cards made you win 100% of the time, which it definitely does not.

Counting cards does give you an advantage over the house though, which you cannot really get in any other game other than poker.


but wasnt the idea that they had the counters which kept track of the count and then the big players betting the money, wats the point of two counters at the same table and with all the signals that the counter (the one who signaled hot deck) giving the signs that the deck is coolin if the big player is counting as well, he would already know.

yea they did make it seem like you would win everyhand which is ridiculous you can almost guarantee those groups of counters went through periods where they lost thousands.

JAD

2009-07-11 07:57:32

From: zonfire
wats the point of two counters at the same table and with all the signals that the counter (the one who signaled hot deck) giving the signs that the deck is coolin if the big player is counting as well, he would already know.


He should be keeping count, and if he is keeping count, then they shouldn't really need to give him signals unless he loses the count or something. The movie was pretty inaccurate; that's the main reason :p