SRL Archive - Discussions & Debates

There exists a chemical within the human brain and some plants known as DMT this chemical is released naturally when you are born, when you die, when you have a near death experience and sometimes even when you sleep.

There is also a drug form which can be taken in tea ect.. to send you on a DMT trip (same concept as an acid/shroom/salvia trip) people tripping on this drug describe themselfs "to be in heaven" or "interacting with machine elfs"

NDE - Near death experience.

"These phenomena are usually reported after an individual has been pronounced clinically dead, or otherwise very close to death, hence the entitlement near-death experience. Many NDE reports, however, originate from events that are not life threatening. With recent developments in cardiac resuscitation techniques, the number of NDEs reported has increased. Most of the scientific community regards such experiences as hallucinatory, while paranormal specialists and some mainstream scientists claim them to be evidence of an afterlife "

Personally my closest thing to a near death experience was when I woke up during the middle of a car crash (the car was rolling down a hill) everything around me slowed to down to a matrix (the movie) like state.

DISCUSS!

If you need evidence…
I believe in god no evidence needed…

From: Hermen
If you need evidence…
I believe in god no evidence needed…

I've always believed in God unconditionally, but this is an interesting topic none-the-less.

yes it is interesting, and i also believe in god without evidence, just because you cannot prove that he doesn't. (also, please don't turn this into a god exists flame war :))

Penn and Teller have this great show, called Penn and Teller: Bullshit!, where they investigate paranormal and new-age claims. They did one episode where the second half is devoted to near-death experiences and how they can usually be explained by the brain hallucinating due to lack of oxygen. They also compared NDE visions with hallucinations that pilots in G-force training experience when they pass out.

The episode's here if anyone's interested:
http://www.megavideo.com/?v=OEDLCQL1

i bleieve in god without proof but i can explain your car crash experience

i remember this from a tv show a while back

when your body is extreme danger it can actaully give the feeling of slowing down time

it does this by have your eyes take more snapshots of your surrounding environment then usual (i dont know the numbers) but that makes it so that your brain can process stuff more full which will help u make the best decition possible to help u survive

I don't get what is to be discussed.
A chemical that produces hallucinations leads to evidence for God's existence?
Or is that near death experiences are evidence for God's existence?

From: mixster
I don't get what is to be discussed.
A chemical that produces hallucinations leads to evidence for God's existence?
Or is that near death experiences are evidence for God's existence?

Read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_death_experience

I don't believe in god, but I respect the people that do.

United Kingdom
DMT is classified in the United Kingdom as a Class A drug.

seems holy.

From: jakeyboy29
United Kingdom
DMT is classified in the United Kingdom as a Class A drug.

seems holy.

Same here :p
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/scheduling.html

Edit: It's called Schedule I but I think it's the same as Class A

yeh, 10 years in jail for having absolutly any on you at all. hummm., so if its in the human body… we are all carrying it…

The main reason I believe in God, perhaps you won't agree, is that we have love, love of our family, girlsfriends/boyfriends, hobbies etc..

Thats what makes me believe, something that special has to have someone/thing behind it.

From: Richard
The main reason I believe in God, perhaps you won't agree, is that we have love, love of our family, girlsfriends/boyfriends, hobbies etc..

Thats what makes me believe, something that special has to have someone/thing behind it.

God, the creator of all that is seen and unseen. I don't believe in God because of DMT or NDEs, I believe in God for a lot of reasons actually, after all you could just say NDE is a hallucination.

Fuckin' hell! That's what it was. I started tripping on DMT during school and wondered the hell was happening. Still don't know how I injested it or w/e.


I've done the slow-time thing. Only problem is you can't move as fast as you think…

I am like many others in this thread - I believe in God through faith alone, and I don't require evidence.

I think there are a lot of things we don't know about the mind. Sure, it's possible that DMT can be produced in the brain. But that is just one of the millions of mysteries about the human mind.

"6 reasons" I saw this as an advertisement at the top of thread.

http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html?gclid=CJSI59bbv5sCFRBbagodYFnx_w

Dimethyltryptamine is very powerful. It existing in your body has nothing to do with "God". Stop trollin' moar ;_;

From: IceFire908
"6 reasons" I saw this as an advertisement at the top of thread.

http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html?gclid=CJSI59bbv5sCFRBbagodYFnx_w

Heeey those were always my reasonings =)

From: Harry
Dimethyltryptamine is very powerful. It existing in your body has nothing to do with "God".

You're saying nothing having to do with near death experiences where some one sees a glimpse of afterlife has nothing to do with God?

If that is what you're truly conveying please elaborate.

I fail to see how anything in this thread could be considered trolling.

From: IceFire908
You're saying nothing having to do with near death experiences where some one sees a glimpse of afterlife has nothing to do with God?

No, he's saying that that drug has nothing to do with any gods. It's not a "glimpse of afterlife," it's a drug.

From: bullzeye95
No, he's saying that that drug has nothing to do with any gods. It's not a "glimpse of afterlife," it's a drug.

Explain why it is released during near death experiences, birth, and death, or is that just a seeming mis-correlation? You can say it is a drug, but it is released naturally. Or just like Infintry said, it's just another mystery about the human brain. All good points, indeed.

From: IceFire908
You're saying nothing having to do with near death experiences where some one sees a glimpse of afterlife has nothing to do with God?

If that is what you're truly conveying please elaborate.

I fail to see how anything in this thread could be considered trolling.

There is no afterlife to be seen. It is all an illusion your brain thinks of. It is what the drug makes you hallucinate. Kthx.

From: Harry
There is no afterlife to be seen. It is all an illusion your brain thinks of. It is what the drug makes you hallucinate. Kthx.

Why is it that it is released during birth and death and near death?

It may be a hallucination but why does it occur during the listed times?

From: IceFire908
Why is it that it is released during birth and death and near death?

It may be a hallucination but why does it occur during the listed times?

To indicate something is severely wrong and you should avoid that situation again. Try thinking for at least 3 seconds.

god ftw

God Of Gaps again.

First, people didnt know what caused thunder and lightning. They said it came from God bashing his balls together.

Also, the sun is a flaming chariot of fire.

God sends diseases if you make him angry. The black death in the 15th century is God's punishment for a socety that tolerates witches and Jews. Lucky for us, the Germ Theory of disease was discovered. Plague is carried by rats and fleas, caused by microbes and you can stop it by cleaning yourself and your house. Of course, God made those rats and fleas do that.

Then theres the argument from design, all life appears to be designed, if it looks designed it is designed and therefore it must have a designer. God. Then we discovered evolution. Of course, God started life and got evolution going in the first place.


Thats why its called the God of Gaps. You worship a God who lives in the gaps of human knowledge, and as human knowledge advances, this god gets smaller and smaller as the gaps it lives in close up.


And now theres this, Near Death Experiances. God must have done it! Its evidence for God!


[quote=Baron d'Holbach]If the ignorance of nature gave birth to such a variety of gods, the knowledge of this nature is calculated to destroy them.[/quote]

From: Yakman
God Of Gaps again.

First, people didnt know what caused thunder and lightning. They said it came from God bashing his balls together.

Also, the sun is a flaming chariot of fire.

God sends diseases if you make him angry. The black death in the 15th century is God's punishment for a socety that tolerates witches and Jews. Lucky for us, the Germ Theory of disease was discovered. Plague is carried by rats and fleas, caused by microbes and you can stop it by cleaning yourself and your house. Of course, God made those rats and fleas do that.

Then theres the argument from design, all life appears to be designed, if it looks designed it is designed and therefore it must have a designer. God. Then we discovered evolution. Of course, God started life and got evolution going in the first place.


Thats why its called the God of Gaps. You worship a God who lives in the gaps of human knowledge, and as human knowledge advances, this god gets smaller and smaller as the gaps it lives in close up.


And now theres this, Near Death Experiances. God must have done it! Its evidence for God!

+1 ^^
Hmm, if I remember correctly, don't you believe in god? This statement seems to be quite critical (both, to god and the reasoning).

Anyway, I believe in evoltuion, and I do not believe in god.
I do believe that there is some kind of "supernatural energy" which guides evolution and our lives in a rough direction, but it does not have any sense of judgement, nor does it have any direct power over humans… it simply IS… But I will not call it "God", that name has been used too often in order to justify crimes (examples: The crusade, tortutring of non-believers, suicide fighters, etc). I'm reffering to "gods" in generel btw, ranging from the Maya, to Alah, to "our" God.

From: Yakman
God Of Gaps again.

First, people didnt know what caused thunder and lightning. They said it came from God bashing his balls together.

Also, the sun is a flaming chariot of fire.

God sends diseases if you make him angry. The black death in the 15th century is God's punishment for a socety that tolerates witches and Jews. Lucky for us, the Germ Theory of disease was discovered. Plague is carried by rats and fleas, caused by microbes and you can stop it by cleaning yourself and your house. Of course, God made those rats and fleas do that.

Then theres the argument from design, all life appears to be designed, if it looks designed it is designed and therefore it must have a designer. God. Then we discovered evolution. Of course, God started life and got evolution going in the first place.


Thats why its called the God of Gaps. You worship a God who lives in the gaps of human knowledge, and as human knowledge advances, this god gets smaller and smaller as the gaps it lives in close up.


And now theres this, Near Death Experiances. God must have done it! Its evidence for God!

Lol, you are among the most entertaining atheists I've ever met.

I actually read an entertaining article about evolution called "What Darwin didn't know" and it said something along the lines of Natural selection not survival of the fittest.

Humans are never going to fully understand the universe Yakman, there has and always will be a "God of Gaps" as you describe. But lets say this, do you really think everything that has happened during the course of history merely a coincidence? Sure, scholars and the church have always argued over certain things like evolution, creation, and the physical universe. But come on, maybe there really are forces in this universe i.e. God that we don't understand that are beyond all human comprehension I don't see why this is so hard to believe.

Man pretends to know the exact answer to a lot of things such as our origins but there is never such thing as irrefutable proof, hell Yakman, God could appear before you and tell you himself that he is real and you could just claim him to be a hallucination.

Which is why this all just comes down to faith, faith in God. But technically Yakman you have a god too, and for you it's information. You might not worship this god or pray to him or whatever, but he is still your god in a sense. Atheism is a form of belief too in a way.

Correct me if I'm wrong. I love reading your atheism posts Yakman, they always are a good read.

Your whole argument is "since it's possible, why not believe it even though there's absolutely no evidence?" Yakman doesn't have a god in any sense. Atheists recognize that we are the only animals that have the ability to use reason. We realize that since we have this ability, we should take nothing on faith; it is obsolete and dangerous to human achievement. In terms of gods, you are living in the stone age. In terms of knowledge, you are living in the space age. We choose to live completely in the space age.

From: bullzeye95
Your whole argument is "since it's possible, why not believe it even though there's absolutely no evidence?" Yakman doesn't have a god in any sense. Atheists recognize that we are the only animals that have the ability to use reason. We realize that since we have this ability, we should take nothing on faith; it is obsolete and dangerous to human achievement. In terms of gods, you are living in the stone age. In terms of knowledge, you are living in the space age. We choose to live completely in the space age.

I laugh at the term space age, we are far from any form of any actual space exploration as a race. Sure we have put a few dozen people in the moon and probably a few hundred into space, but can we really say us humans are living in the space age? Comon, it wasn't long ago that people thought witches were real.

The church used to think the Earth was the center of the universe, how do we know it's not the center of the spiritual universe? The physical universe we know of may be completely different than any other. Sure the big bang might be real but it is lacking more proof than creation. Science it self is a "God of Gaps" science can't explain everything. There are few things that are actually Scientific law i.e. gravity that are obviously real.

Can you say Red Herring?

first you talk about Near Death Experiances, then you've moved onto some wishy-washy talk about forces and totally abandonded NDE.


I just accused you of worshipping a God of Gaps, and you've just admitted it, you've said yes you do worship a God of Gaps.
I've gotten a feeling that you dont understand why that is a bad thing for you.

From: Yakman
Can you say Red Herring?

first you talk about Near Death Experiances, then you've moved onto some wishy-washy talk about forces and totally abandonded NDE.


I just accused you of worshipping a God of Gaps, and you've just admitted it, you've said yes you do worship a God of Gaps.
I've gotten a feeling that you dont understand why that is a bad thing for you.

You bring up a good point, but I don't see how this is bad for me. I don't depend on God to do anything for me.

My favorites quote are ones like

"God helps those who help themselfs."

Perhaps you'd like to elaborate on how believing in God is bad for you.

From: akwardsaw
yes it is interesting, and i also believe in god without evidence, just because you cannot prove that he doesn't. (also, please don't turn this into a god exists flame war :))

there is more proof that he isnt around than that he is :fiery:

From: failpailirl
there is more proof that he isnt around than that he is :fiery:

Resulting in people being able to believe in what they want, freedom of thought.

There is no such thing as proof or evidence in our world today.

From: IceFire908
There is no such thing as proof or evidence in our world today.

Then you are saying nothing exists. That everything I love is a lie. Everything I live for isn't real. Do you really believe that?

No I am not saying that at all, I'm saying people can deny any evidence or proof no matter how strong it is. Simply label it an hallucination.

Personally I believe in God, love, and all that good stuff.

From: IceFire908
No I am not saying that at all, I'm saying people can deny any evidence or proof no matter how strong it is. Simply label it an hallucination.

But that doesn't change that the evidence or proof exists. Denying it does nothing at all. We live in an objective universe.

From: bullzeye95
But that doesn't change that the evidence or proof exists. Denying it does nothing at all. We live in an objective universe.

True, but people create their own reality.

This brings us into the wonderful world of philosophy!

"I doubt, therefore I think, therefore I am."-Some latin dude "Cogito ergo sum"
"What is a man but a miserable pile of lies?" -Dracula

It is released during said times because it affects memory. I've experienced it, it is quite odd, it is like being very drunk and not remembering what is happening. You live pretty much right then, you don't think much about what is next or before, it alters your perception of time.


The drug has a purpose for being there. Why the hell would this drug being released at said times have anything to do with God?

Some people describe it as a glimpse into the afterlife i.e. heaven.

Or, you know, it could just be that it's meant to give you a better reaction to whatever's about to kill you if you're in a life-threatening situation.

Yay evolution

DMT is also thought to be responsible for dreaming. Does that mean that dreams are evidence of god? No. I smoked alot of weed once, and felt like I was in another universe. Does that prove alternate universes? No.

"Paranormal specialists" and "Mainstream scientists". Nice one. I could say a mainstream scientist believes that his dog is god, does that make it true? No. I could say a paranormal specialist believes in ghosts, does that prove they exist? No.

Basically, as usual, your arguments hold no water and this thread is just (what I hope to be, for your sake) another fail attempt at trolling.

Edit: Oh, and I forgot to mention. The ancient religions (forerunners of the current religions) used to take DMT and other similar powerfull pychadelics (mescaline and the like) to achieve a state of enlightenment. The experiences they had on these drugs ultimately got labelled as "religious experiences". It's not suprising that people say they have religious experiences when they have a NDE, as from the very start of religion, a religious experience was basically defined as a DMT trip. So it's not that people have religious experiences while having a NDE which is evidence of god; people trip the fuck out when they have a NDE and due to society associating a powerful trip with a religious experience, they label it as a religious experience rather than just tripping balls.

God of Gaps is a bad thing for your position because it is derived from argumentum ad ignorantiam (Argument from ignorance) and is therefore a logical fallecy.

From: R0b0t1
It is released during said times because it affects memory. I've experienced it, it is quite odd, it is like being very drunk and not remembering what is happening. You live pretty much right then, you don't think much about what is next or before, it alters your perception of time.

:rolleyes: Trust me mate, its nothing like being drunk… but time perception goes right out the window, your right. Time dilation is massive.

I don't think its proof that there is a God. However, if one wanted to save the world from itself (war, inhumanity to fellow man, etc…) DMT, LSD, mescaline, MDMA, and psilocybin/psilocin would be the absolute best place to start. All these things (and their chemical cousins) change you for the better, if done properly.

Of course it would never happen, far too much money at stake…

Although I can't be bothered turning this in to a whole athiest vs religion bash..

I don't think Religion today, is what Religion should be..
There is far more support for Scientific explanations for our existence, that don't take any form of "higher being" to explain our existence..

I just generally don't feel the need to feel ridden with sin, and the need to be cleansed to feel moral and happy with my life..

Thats all..
the NDE's and the feeling's experienced can all be explained with science without any need for the middle man..

Could it be that the time that you first come into this world (leaving your creator, god) that this is released. Then again being released when you are (possibly) leaving this world (rejoining with your creator, god). This DMT is released and that is why people are saying it could possibly be a glimpse of an after-life, since those are the time when you are meeting with your creator.


Also that whole 'state of slowness' can come from anything really. I have been hit hard enough in hockey that has sent me to do a flip or two and while I was flipping I went into that 'matrix' like slowness. Ended with concusions too…

I've heard about the state of slowness before, was reading an article of some guy who fell off a 4 story building or some shit and landed in a tree, as he was falling he said he experienced that and was completely focused on what the best way to land to protect himself was. Seems like its a survival thing.

From: Yakman
God of Gaps is a bad thing for your position because it is derived from argumentum ad ignorantiam (Argument from ignorance) and is therefore a logical fallecy.

Latin was designed by man no?

Technically man's understanding of the universe depends on gaps in order for our theories to make sense.

For all we know the big bang and evolution are all completely false in every aspect. You can't claim some one is ignorant because they worship a higher power just like I could say your ignorant for believing in evolution, it's complete madness.

I don't understand how it is a logical fallacy, obviously our opinions on what "God" is are completely different.

@The Claw, there is a nice little button in the upper left corner of your browser called 'Back' which is a lot easier to click than it is to spell out the word trolling. Thanks.

Yeah, I know it's not really like being drunk, but I had no other word for it.

From: R0b0t1
Yeah, I know it's not really like being drunk, but I had no other word for it.

Personally I would say "tripping balls"

Possibly, because birth is NOT a pleasant experience? Its just like Dopamine, Just a chemical to warn or reward.